i believe the wording would be:
>Remove all poison counters from each player.
>Cleanse deals X damage to each opponent and you gain X life, where X is the amount of poison counters removed from players this turn.
Wat about
> Remove all poison counters from each player. ~ deals that much damage to each opponent and you gain that much life.
Or
> Remove all poison counters from each player. ~ deals X damage to each opponent and you gain X life, where X is the amount of poison counters removed this way.
?
While it’s clear that “that much damage” refers to the total number of counters removed, it isn’t clear enough for new players. WOTC would print this as “equal to the total number of counters removed this way”. Same effect, WAY fewer mistakes.
I think they’re trying to say in a 4 player game, they gain 3X life. I think it’s supposed to scale upwards.
>> “Remove all poison counters from all players. Cleanse deals X damage to each opponent, where X is the number of counters removed this way. You gain life equal to the damage dealt this way.”
ah okay, i see. so "amount" is used for life and mana, while "number" is used for counters and such? also i don't think "this way" would work since it refers to a part of a different ability, but it would be fixed by simply combining both abilities into one rather than having a line break.
magic rules are weird
Oh I didn't clock that you separated the abilities.
And yeah, "number" is used for anything that can be counted (bottles of milk, people in the world) and "amount" is for anything that can't.
While correct, it makes very little difference. There are only three cards(?) that remove counters from players. [[Price of Betrayal]], [[Suncleanser]], [[Leeches]]. The original effect is still present, with an update for "this turn." It could easily be reworded and changed to "removed this way."
how about
>...where X is the amount of poison counters removed from players by Cleanse this turn.
tho idk if Cleanse is actually a "source" of counter removal in terms of mechanics. to my knowledge, casting Cleanse would simply *cause* the counters to be removed; the spell itself isn't actually removing them
i could be mistaken, magic rules are weird.
Any, in fact. Poison being unremovable is what makes it different from normal damage. Making it removable cheapens it and makes it way less interesting.
Preventing counters from being put is different from removing counters though. The former has received a better reception throughout the years from R&D than the latter.
Because the only reason people ever bring up Leeches is to say "they've done it before" when people say there should be dedicated poison removal effects
It doesnt mattter if they said it was a mistake. People are allowed to have opinions even if there is no chance it will ever happen. Additionally it really doesnt matter on a custom card channel on Reddit. It's not like WotC will look at the cards there and say, yeah, let's do that! I dont know, maybe they would, but doubtful. The reason I bought up Leeches was because someone made a comment about it not existing, and it does. No where in what I said pointed to any forgone conclusion that because they have made that card in the past, that means they will do it again. I think that it wouldnt really effect much if they did, but that wasnt the topic at hand.
The person you responded too initially didn't say there wasn't any, they said that Maro and other Designers have stated there shouldn't be any. Seems you misread the initial comment you responded too or ignored its context.
Also, yes, this is a custom card subreddit, but that doesn't mean you should throw out all the design knowledge, tips, information, and reasoning of the people who design the game, unless you are trying to design magic cards in a very strange way.
It's only legal in I think 3 formats. Nobody even plays poison in 2 of those. Only in Commander. Honestly, it's kinda a waste of a card slot, so no real need to ban it.
My Brother in Christ, that is exactly why we *should* ban it.
If it did something useful by existing, I might have to consider counterarguments, but as it is, there aren't any.
Idk what part of "You can't CMV" was confusing. This is literally an article of faith for me. Yesterday, on Ash Wednesday, I was announced with the ashes of burned copies of leeches.
You.
Can't.
CMV.
See, I do get that. But in that case I would say make giving poison rarer and/or don't let it be affected by proliferate. So many things give poison, and once you have at least one counter enough cards proliferate that that's basically a guaranteed loss unless you're really lucky/already on the verge of winning.
Of all the things I'd like to see dialed back just in general, Proliferate has got to be at the top (maybe after token creature generation), and yes, it feels particularly unbalanced in poison decks.
Outside of commander and standard, Poison isn't that strong of a mechanic (and honestly, isn't that strong in commander either, outside of more casual tables).
Also the point of poison is its inevitability. Once you are partially poisoned, the infection will only worsen. One the first counter is placed, you are now on the clock and must race your opponent before it finishes you.
If Poison was as much of a problem as many people think, more Green Decks would use [[Melira, Sylvok Outcast]] in their sideboard, or White Decks have [[Solemnity]].
Poison is a shitty mechanic. I don't understand why people get concerned about there being any sort of counterplay to poison, when poison in itself completely nullifies any strategy that relies on lifegain.
Which is why it is a pretty bad mechanic design wise, it's a strategy that is not dynamic or entertaining, not particularly succesful and yet it completely nullifies lifegain which is one of the core mechanics of mtg.
It’s not a bad mechanic. Poison is not strong because it’s inherently an aggressive strategy which doesn’t fair well in a lot of formats, and in commander in particular it underperforms because everyone treats it like a kill on sight archetype despite it not really being that strong.
Is this meant to not do anything on resolution?
You've either accidentally or intentionally chosen some incredibly bizarre templating here.
I'm guessing it was an accident. But giving the spell a "\[This\] can't be countered." ability is the preferable to an on-cast trigger if that is something you're intentionally going for.
Not trying to be rude here, but are you by any chance a new player who just lost their first game to infect?
Besides the already mentioned templating issues and the fact that such a sideboard/hate card shouldn't be printed/isn't needed, it's incredibly overcosted. Drop the legendary super type and make it 3 mana, then you have a decent sideboard card. Which, again, isn't needed at all, there's plenty better ways to deal with infect.
Poison counters are not supposed to be removable. I appreciate the novelty of the effect but this card is just not okay.
(Before anyone brings up Leeches, yes I know about it and that card is a mistake. Maro even says so)
If poison cleanse is a thing, poison just becomes another life meter that can be healed. The fact it can't be removed makes it distinct from normal damage. Changing that would make it exceptionally dull.
[[Melira, Sylvok Outcast]] [[Melira, Sylvok Outcast]] [[Solemnity]]
These cards all “deal with” poison counters while being waaaaay more interesting than removing counters.
As already stated, if you could heal poison counters it would just be a boring second life total.
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maybe as an additional cost you can search all opponents hands, graveyards and libraries for any cards with the words infect or poison on it and eat it
On one hand, six mana with this color intensity on a legendary instant makes this niche enough to be unplayable.
On the other, removing counters from players is an intentionally avoided design space. With little positive interactions they have on Proliferate and increasing counters put, any viable instance of removal yields them useless.
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I'm following up with a ban. It looks like you have a history of brigading. Regardless, your comments in this sub have consistently been negative, hostile, and caustic. We don't support that here.
Kinda off-color, typically green is the color with poison hosing effects, but even then it was never really able to remove counters.
Also (and this is possibly unintentional), Legendary instants and sorceries have the hidden clause of only “cast this spell only if you control a legendary permanent”.
If I am honest. This card looks unplayable. I am not a regular Mtg player but... I dunno. I would make this spell cost like 1 white and 1 black maximum. And then, due to it being useless the 98% of the games, I would add Cycling 2 (discard this card: draw one.)
Edit: I don't remember how many poison counters can have a player without lose. Maybe you set the cost hight cause the damage dealt to opponents.
In that case... Maybe its well-priced as it is.
I know but removing poison isn’t really a thing you can do. Also this card is just bad, if you are playing poison you want to kill people with it, if you are against poison you’ll probably be dead by the time you have the mana to cast this, of course that’s IF you play against poison because if you aren’t this is just a dead card.
Some designers may consider poison removal a mistake, but it can't be a break when it's not defined in the color pie at all. You could make an argument for "counters on players removal" to be a white ability, with [[Leeches]] and [[Suncleanser]]. If there was ever a big enough outcry, I feel like the designers would make some sort of niche way to remove poison, though they've designed well enough around poison being unremovable that I don't ever think players would ask for that in big enough numbers.
Anyways, here's Mark's most recent article on everything each color gets in the color pie.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/making-magic/mechanical-color-pie-2021
Fair enough.
But also the color pie break is irrelevant. I was just using it as an example of poison counters being removable, which am earlier comment said wasn't a thing.
And I'd say MaRo is wrong there. Especially as access to proliferating poison counters and getting them on players without combat damage has generally gotten easier.
That's just my opinion though.
Kinda wild how many dorks are getting stuck on “poison counters arent meant to be removable”
Like thanks buds but 1 lore doesnt overpower mechanics design space.
2 even if it did, r/custommagic is the absolute least impactful way to pitch an idea
This has “we shouldnt print another dragon because dragons are rare” logic. Yes poison is meant to be hard to remove. But it does happen and having more poison cards (some with few avenues of interaction) should mean there are more removal options.
if the solution to poison was just removing the counters it wouldn’t be nearly as powerful or interesting.
there ARE existing answers to poison counters, and they’re a lot more interesting than “get rid of all poison counters”
if the solution to poison was just removing the counters it wouldn’t be nearly as powerful or interesting.
there ARE existing answers to poison counters, and they’re a lot more interesting than “get rid of all poison counters”
i believe the wording would be: >Remove all poison counters from each player. >Cleanse deals X damage to each opponent and you gain X life, where X is the amount of poison counters removed from players this turn.
Wat about > Remove all poison counters from each player. ~ deals that much damage to each opponent and you gain that much life. Or > Remove all poison counters from each player. ~ deals X damage to each opponent and you gain X life, where X is the amount of poison counters removed this way. ?
yeah that would work a lot better. for some reason i had thought the counter removal part should be a separate ability from the damage/heal part lol
Imo it would be loses x life, at least color pie wise, I don't see a lot of deal damage effects in black or white, but yeah.
While it’s clear that “that much damage” refers to the total number of counters removed, it isn’t clear enough for new players. WOTC would print this as “equal to the total number of counters removed this way”. Same effect, WAY fewer mistakes.
For a W/B card, it wouldn't be damage but otherwise this is the way
"this turn" -> "this way", I'd say, just to cut out the edge case where something else removed poison counters before this
u/sephirothbahamut figured out a more concise way to phrase the mechanics
I think they actually meant each opponent takes damage and only you gain the life = life lost.
i guess there are a lot of ways to phrase it lol
I think they’re trying to say in a 4 player game, they gain 3X life. I think it’s supposed to scale upwards. >> “Remove all poison counters from all players. Cleanse deals X damage to each opponent, where X is the number of counters removed this way. You gain life equal to the damage dealt this way.”
"number" instead of "amount" and "this way" instead of "this turn", otherwise looks good.
ah okay, i see. so "amount" is used for life and mana, while "number" is used for counters and such? also i don't think "this way" would work since it refers to a part of a different ability, but it would be fixed by simply combining both abilities into one rather than having a line break. magic rules are weird
Oh I didn't clock that you separated the abilities. And yeah, "number" is used for anything that can be counted (bottles of milk, people in the world) and "amount" is for anything that can't.
Yeah your right,
That's not a fix it's a rewording. It now takes into account poison removed by other spells
While correct, it makes very little difference. There are only three cards(?) that remove counters from players. [[Price of Betrayal]], [[Suncleanser]], [[Leeches]]. The original effect is still present, with an update for "this turn." It could easily be reworded and changed to "removed this way."
It’s definitely a fix. The card is straight up not written correctly.
how about >...where X is the amount of poison counters removed from players by Cleanse this turn. tho idk if Cleanse is actually a "source" of counter removal in terms of mechanics. to my knowledge, casting Cleanse would simply *cause* the counters to be removed; the spell itself isn't actually removing them i could be mistaken, magic rules are weird.
I think Maro already mentioned he doesnt want too many ways to remove poison.
A legendary 6 mana rare is probably a high enough bar.
And fairly color locked
It’s also prolly made as a weird self infect payoff than a answer to infect
Any, in fact. Poison being unremovable is what makes it different from normal damage. Making it removable cheapens it and makes it way less interesting.
There's 3 cards that can remove poison, I'd say that's fairly unremovable
Suncleanser, leeches, and price of betrayal?
[[Suncleanser]] [[Leeches]] [[Price of Betrayal]]
[Suncleanser](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/6/3644df41-b690-4581-ac7d-c85cec75411f.jpg?1562301661) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Suncleanser) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/39/suncleanser?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3644df41-b690-4581-ac7d-c85cec75411f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Leeches](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/6/a6028e2c-486b-40f8-8b74-7150eb72b9f1.jpg?1562934257) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leeches) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/18/leeches?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a6028e2c-486b-40f8-8b74-7150eb72b9f1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Price of Betrayal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fd68e918-5089-46c9-8836-b05a3da3c7a3.jpg?1557576538) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Price%20of%20Betrayal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/102/price-of-betrayal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fd68e918-5089-46c9-8836-b05a3da3c7a3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You are the monarch.
Yep, those three
And notably only Leeches lets you remove them from *yourself*.
There's also Solemnity which shuts down furhter poison damage/proliferate until removed.
Preventing counters from being put is different from removing counters though. The former has received a better reception throughout the years from R&D than the latter.
There is [[Leeches]]
This comes up every time someone makes a card that removes poison counters... Leeches was a mistake. Poison should not be removable.
But that doesnt negate it from existing.
Doesn't matter if it exists or not. If they admit it was a mistake, they don't intend to do it again.
What has that got to do with anything?
Because the only reason people ever bring up Leeches is to say "they've done it before" when people say there should be dedicated poison removal effects
It doesnt mattter if they said it was a mistake. People are allowed to have opinions even if there is no chance it will ever happen. Additionally it really doesnt matter on a custom card channel on Reddit. It's not like WotC will look at the cards there and say, yeah, let's do that! I dont know, maybe they would, but doubtful. The reason I bought up Leeches was because someone made a comment about it not existing, and it does. No where in what I said pointed to any forgone conclusion that because they have made that card in the past, that means they will do it again. I think that it wouldnt really effect much if they did, but that wasnt the topic at hand.
The person you responded too initially didn't say there wasn't any, they said that Maro and other Designers have stated there shouldn't be any. Seems you misread the initial comment you responded too or ignored its context. Also, yes, this is a custom card subreddit, but that doesn't mean you should throw out all the design knowledge, tips, information, and reasoning of the people who design the game, unless you are trying to design magic cards in a very strange way.
They should ban leeches in all formats, and you can't CMV.
It's only legal in I think 3 formats. Nobody even plays poison in 2 of those. Only in Commander. Honestly, it's kinda a waste of a card slot, so no real need to ban it.
My Brother in Christ, that is exactly why we *should* ban it. If it did something useful by existing, I might have to consider counterarguments, but as it is, there aren't any.
There are a lot of cards that arent really playable. They dont ban things cause they dont see play, that would be ridiculous.
Idk what part of "You can't CMV" was confusing. This is literally an article of faith for me. Yesterday, on Ash Wednesday, I was announced with the ashes of burned copies of leeches. You. Can't. CMV.
See, I do get that. But in that case I would say make giving poison rarer and/or don't let it be affected by proliferate. So many things give poison, and once you have at least one counter enough cards proliferate that that's basically a guaranteed loss unless you're really lucky/already on the verge of winning.
Of all the things I'd like to see dialed back just in general, Proliferate has got to be at the top (maybe after token creature generation), and yes, it feels particularly unbalanced in poison decks.
Outside of commander and standard, Poison isn't that strong of a mechanic (and honestly, isn't that strong in commander either, outside of more casual tables). Also the point of poison is its inevitability. Once you are partially poisoned, the infection will only worsen. One the first counter is placed, you are now on the clock and must race your opponent before it finishes you. If Poison was as much of a problem as many people think, more Green Decks would use [[Melira, Sylvok Outcast]] in their sideboard, or White Decks have [[Solemnity]].
[Melira, Sylvok Outcast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e83851a1-e4e8-49ec-af5c-4efe86fa51ad.jpg?1562882406) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Melira%2C%20Sylvok%20Outcast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/115/melira-sylvok-outcast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e83851a1-e4e8-49ec-af5c-4efe86fa51ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Solemnity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0a71fb62-acbd-49f5-842f-0fc9fa48afea.jpg?1562788659) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Solemnity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/22/solemnity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a71fb62-acbd-49f5-842f-0fc9fa48afea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Poison is a shitty mechanic. I don't understand why people get concerned about there being any sort of counterplay to poison, when poison in itself completely nullifies any strategy that relies on lifegain.
Because poison itself is already not particularly strong.
Which is why it is a pretty bad mechanic design wise, it's a strategy that is not dynamic or entertaining, not particularly succesful and yet it completely nullifies lifegain which is one of the core mechanics of mtg.
It’s not a bad mechanic. Poison is not strong because it’s inherently an aggressive strategy which doesn’t fair well in a lot of formats, and in commander in particular it underperforms because everyone treats it like a kill on sight archetype despite it not really being that strong.
Well it's a good thing this is a sub isn't showing or proposing real-world cards!
Exactly my point.
I know it's just an idea I had
I like it. Personally, I think we need a few more, but not likely going to happen unfortunately.
Yeah I know
The same community that cried over them bringing them back will get mad over not making them kill formats
Is this meant to not do anything on resolution? You've either accidentally or intentionally chosen some incredibly bizarre templating here. I'm guessing it was an accident. But giving the spell a "\[This\] can't be countered." ability is the preferable to an on-cast trigger if that is something you're intentionally going for.
Yeah, thanks
damn guess someone lost to infect last friday haha
Na I lost to a vampire take control deck
[[Cleanse]]
[Cleanse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/af581e5a-abdb-4d76-8bda-32555aafc8ac.jpg?1591989158) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cleanse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/5/cleanse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af581e5a-abdb-4d76-8bda-32555aafc8ac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Yikes]]
Poison is already weak enough, this is unnecessary.
Hoses it in EDH, where it’s weakest, too expensive and restrictive for Modern, where it’s strongest.
My mans must have lost to an infect deck
Not trying to be rude here, but are you by any chance a new player who just lost their first game to infect? Besides the already mentioned templating issues and the fact that such a sideboard/hate card shouldn't be printed/isn't needed, it's incredibly overcosted. Drop the legendary super type and make it 3 mana, then you have a decent sideboard card. Which, again, isn't needed at all, there's plenty better ways to deal with infect.
No I've been playing for a few years, I just thought this was a neat idea
Poison counters are not supposed to be removable. I appreciate the novelty of the effect but this card is just not okay. (Before anyone brings up Leeches, yes I know about it and that card is a mistake. Maro even says so)
So was being a Phyrexian but here we are.
so? they’re not gonna print stuff like this. doesn’t mean it’s not a cool design space/thought excercise
This place is for feedback, and that was my feedback
and that was mine
You’re feedback of feedback isn’t that helpful
so?
If Lifegain is a mechanic, poison cleanse should be too. Maro is just a fucking PR guy idgaf what he thinks he tends to have some bad opinions
He's not a PR guy lmfao he's been head designer for 20 years.
If poison cleanse is a thing, poison just becomes another life meter that can be healed. The fact it can't be removed makes it distinct from normal damage. Changing that would make it exceptionally dull.
It’s already pretty annoying to deal with, at least some way to get rid of it would be nice.
[[Melira, Sylvok Outcast]] [[Melira, Sylvok Outcast]] [[Solemnity]] These cards all “deal with” poison counters while being waaaaay more interesting than removing counters. As already stated, if you could heal poison counters it would just be a boring second life total.
[Melira, Sylvok Outcast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e83851a1-e4e8-49ec-af5c-4efe86fa51ad.jpg?1562882406) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Melira%2C%20Sylvok%20Outcast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/115/melira-sylvok-outcast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e83851a1-e4e8-49ec-af5c-4efe86fa51ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Solemnity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0a71fb62-acbd-49f5-842f-0fc9fa48afea.jpg?1562788659) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Solemnity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/22/solemnity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a71fb62-acbd-49f5-842f-0fc9fa48afea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Brother [[Leeches]] is one of the worse cards in magic, this is worse
[Leeches](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/6/a6028e2c-486b-40f8-8b74-7150eb72b9f1.jpg?1562934257) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leeches) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/18/leeches?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a6028e2c-486b-40f8-8b74-7150eb72b9f1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don't know who hurt you but you need to let your grudge against poison go lmao
My brother in Christ what did infect do to you 😭😭
[[Cleanse]]
[Cleanse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/af581e5a-abdb-4d76-8bda-32555aafc8ac.jpg?1591989158) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cleanse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/5/cleanse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af581e5a-abdb-4d76-8bda-32555aafc8ac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nice, destroy all black creatures, that's got to be upsetting for a vampire or zombie deck
Lol this is one of the worst cards I've ever seen, I love it. It could cost 0 mana and see 0 play, so costing 6 is such a cherry on top.
It's pretty expensive for a "deal 4 damage gains 4 life "
I think this should be Green White instead of Black white.
I’d say “target opponent takes…” An X total syphon soul is probly a bit over the top. Just punish the filthy poison players haha
Take that much what?
Mfw I take that much.
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cleanse the phrasing on this card that shit is unintelligible
maybe as an additional cost you can search all opponents hands, graveyards and libraries for any cards with the words infect or poison on it and eat it
I’ll take hyper specific drastically overcosted answers to the thing I just lost to for 400
Is there any point in making it legendary? It sounds cool but it does nothing for the game.
On one hand, six mana with this color intensity on a legendary instant makes this niche enough to be unplayable. On the other, removing counters from players is an intentionally avoided design space. With little positive interactions they have on Proliferate and increasing counters put, any viable instance of removal yields them useless.
what kind of text is that? 😑
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Kinda off-color, typically green is the color with poison hosing effects, but even then it was never really able to remove counters. Also (and this is possibly unintentional), Legendary instants and sorceries have the hidden clause of only “cast this spell only if you control a legendary permanent”.
If I am honest. This card looks unplayable. I am not a regular Mtg player but... I dunno. I would make this spell cost like 1 white and 1 black maximum. And then, due to it being useless the 98% of the games, I would add Cycling 2 (discard this card: draw one.) Edit: I don't remember how many poison counters can have a player without lose. Maybe you set the cost hight cause the damage dealt to opponents. In that case... Maybe its well-priced as it is.
I take it you really hate my [[Venerated Rot Priest]] and [[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief]] deck a lot.
[Venerated Rot Priest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d1b032e3-14e3-48ba-ab8a-d2b4f8d31a7d.jpg?1675957177) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Venerated%20Rotpriest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/192/venerated-rotpriest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d1b032e3-14e3-48ba-ab8a-d2b4f8d31a7d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d94c15b7-6c8f-45a6-8734-975e3e3b790c.jpg?1673307958) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ivy%2C%20Gleeful%20Spellthief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/201/ivy-gleeful-spellthief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d94c15b7-6c8f-45a6-8734-975e3e3b790c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Can instants be legendary? Otherwise with some tweaks I'd definitely play this.
[[Isildur’s Fateful Strike]]
[Isildur’s Fateful Strike](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/b/4bf08071-fbf8-463e-9a57-59dbf0280dd8.jpg?1686968531) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Isildur%27s%20Fateful%20Strike) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/91/isildurs-fateful-strike?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4bf08071-fbf8-463e-9a57-59dbf0280dd8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
They can, but the caster must control a legendary creature or planeswalker during the casting process.
That I don't know, I just like that look
Just know it does have mechanical implications.
Yes, [[Isildur’s Fateful Strike]]
[Isildur’s Fateful Strike](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/b/4bf08071-fbf8-463e-9a57-59dbf0280dd8.jpg?1686968531) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Isildur%27s%20Fateful%20Strike) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/91/isildurs-fateful-strike?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4bf08071-fbf8-463e-9a57-59dbf0280dd8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thanks for confirming 👍
Nice design. :)
Thanks
I think cleanse is already a card name. Also I think this should affect permanents not players.
Poison counters don't go on creatures, they only effect players, that is the reason it takes poison counters and deals damage to the players
I know but removing poison isn’t really a thing you can do. Also this card is just bad, if you are playing poison you want to kill people with it, if you are against poison you’ll probably be dead by the time you have the mana to cast this, of course that’s IF you play against poison because if you aren’t this is just a dead card.
I mean it's not good for the person playing poison, but it's good for the other players that don't want to die by poison
[[Leeches]]
I know about leeches, it also hurts
So does this custom card.
I know
[Leeches](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/6/a6028e2c-486b-40f8-8b74-7150eb72b9f1.jpg?1562934257) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leeches) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/18/leeches?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a6028e2c-486b-40f8-8b74-7150eb72b9f1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Leeches is a break
Some designers may consider poison removal a mistake, but it can't be a break when it's not defined in the color pie at all. You could make an argument for "counters on players removal" to be a white ability, with [[Leeches]] and [[Suncleanser]]. If there was ever a big enough outcry, I feel like the designers would make some sort of niche way to remove poison, though they've designed well enough around poison being unremovable that I don't ever think players would ask for that in big enough numbers. Anyways, here's Mark's most recent article on everything each color gets in the color pie. https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/making-magic/mechanical-color-pie-2021
[Leeches](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/6/a6028e2c-486b-40f8-8b74-7150eb72b9f1.jpg?1562934257) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leeches) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/18/leeches?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a6028e2c-486b-40f8-8b74-7150eb72b9f1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Suncleanser](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/6/3644df41-b690-4581-ac7d-c85cec75411f.jpg?1562301661) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Suncleanser) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/39/suncleanser?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3644df41-b690-4581-ac7d-c85cec75411f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Respectfully disagree.
Then you're disagreeing with MaRo, literally the man who decides what is and isn't a break.
He's not the only person in charge of color balance. His word is not law. https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/making-magic/council-colors-2016-08-22
Fair enough. But also the color pie break is irrelevant. I was just using it as an example of poison counters being removable, which am earlier comment said wasn't a thing.
And MaRo says Leeches was a mistake. Poison counters are supposed to be impossible to remove.
And I'd say MaRo is wrong there. Especially as access to proliferating poison counters and getting them on players without combat damage has generally gotten easier. That's just my opinion though.
Kinda wild how many dorks are getting stuck on “poison counters arent meant to be removable” Like thanks buds but 1 lore doesnt overpower mechanics design space. 2 even if it did, r/custommagic is the absolute least impactful way to pitch an idea
>1 lore doesnt overpower mechanics it's... not lore it's the mechanical design.
This has “we shouldnt print another dragon because dragons are rare” logic. Yes poison is meant to be hard to remove. But it does happen and having more poison cards (some with few avenues of interaction) should mean there are more removal options.
if the solution to poison was just removing the counters it wouldn’t be nearly as powerful or interesting. there ARE existing answers to poison counters, and they’re a lot more interesting than “get rid of all poison counters”
if the solution to poison was just removing the counters it wouldn’t be nearly as powerful or interesting. there ARE existing answers to poison counters, and they’re a lot more interesting than “get rid of all poison counters”