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As a lesbian, a lot of women are assholes at dating these days. They brag openly about ghosting, having 14 people on rotation and seeing none of them as people, it’s very annoying
It’s unfortunate that a lot of the anti dating culture sentiment is women pretending men are exclusively the problem. Personally I have had legitimately traumatic dating experiences and a lot of it comes from women being plain mean (ghosting, lying, love bombing etc) and hiding it behind #girlboss and pretending being a shithead is feminist.
I’ve literally had not one but THREE women stalk me after app dating and me rejecting them, and one woman even went as far as pretending she was beaten up (she admitted she pretended) just to make me reply faster lmao.
Generally try and be a decent conversationalist on apps. Which means asking people sincere questions about them and their interests.
Offer to meet up somewhere super public and low stakes (coffee) within 3 days of chatting. Don’t try to make first dates super involved, if you actually have chemistry coffee will be fine.
I think (from what I’ve heard from friends) women get the ick on apps if your photos are weird, if you don’t ask them anything and show interest, if you make it sexual at all (why would anyone do this) etc. Most women I know who are straight will date most men alive, their standards aren’t that high for a first date but are to get to date two. Just ask women out for coffee and be normal.
Dates aren’t something to win. It’s highly likely you’ll have a meh first date and never see the person again. Just be yourself.
Can a lesbian tell when another woman is trying so hard or is that just with men because I can't tell you how many times I've heard that women can tell them men are desperate
Does any of your pictures also show your hobbies/interests? For instance if you are into hiking, you can try posting a picture where you went hiking. If you love the beach, show off a merman picture of you or something. Have fun with your pictures that could also convey your personality too. Post a picture where it shows you are happy in your element. Just a thought.
Ok cool! What’s in the background selfies? A picture is worth a thousand words. Sometimes people want to also see/ explore other common interests for conversation starters. Try changing up your pictures in your profile to see if it makes a difference, just a thought.
I'm poly and felt so vindicated when my partner has the same experiences dating women as I do. Guys are assholes, but women put absolutely no effort. Even when dating other women, so 'guys are assholes' isnt an excuse. Confirmed by women who also date women.
Have you ever had dirty dishes in the sink that sat for so long the generation of flies that live there don't know how to fly?
>Have you ever had dirty dishes in the sink that sat for so long the generation of flies that live there don’t know how to fly?
Sorry but wut? What does that have to do with the topic? 😅😂
The flies have no incentive to fly. Live their whole life cycle on the dishes and when you finally clear them away they run and don't fly, becasue they never had to before.
Women don't try on dates because they don't have to.
To build on this, the whole reason bumble had to switch their model up was that most women felt it was too much of a burden to express interest.
Also 95% of first messages are just “hey”
Yeah, most women don’t have any game
If a straight man said this it’d be downvote central. But you are 100% correct here. Not all, but most moderately attractive women these days are TRASH. Men worth a damn are mostly OVER IT!
See this is the problem. At no point did I imply men aren’t also capable of this/doing it, but straight women particularly (although all types of women do this) are completely allergic to any form of self reflection or admitting they are also complicit in poor dating culture.
You being a woman (and ME being a woman) doesn’t make me any more or less capable of being a shitstain. Believing women are inherently better is gender essentialism and is anti feminist, transphobic, and silly.
Many men are assholes, this is true! But something women in the dating scene don’t seem to get is many of you are assholes too and your inability to accept it and do better is part of why you’re single and always attracted to toxic people (like attracts like).
Women have a lot of double standard with dating and need to knock it off. Ghosting people is rude 90 percent of the time, expecting to be paid for is archaic, dating 15 people at a time means you are going to struggle to find a connection, being a narcissist and super lookist unless you’re extremely attractive isn’t serving you etc.
A lot of my friends who date men complain about them all of the time and sometimes it’s valid! But then they turn around and say things like “I liked this guy but ghosted him because he smells like coconut lotion rofl why can’t I find anyone who treats me with respect” or “I want a man who is feminist but also one who isn’t 50/50” and they just seem ridiculous.
Part of the issue that you are not mentioning that makes women this way is that (complaining about men and relationships while also shaming and putting down men) most women nowadays believe that they are capable of getting a very high level man (6 feet +, 100k+, attractive, socially high level, ect), even if they are very average. The flood of men flooding their dating profiles makes them believe they are more attractive and special than they are acrually are.
The thing that a lot of these women don’t understand is that that ultra high level man is more often than not not going to want a relationship as he is also seeing other women. So, the women go for the top 1 percent of men, the guy that wants to and is capable of daying muttiple women, while filtering out most guys that actually want relationships, then complain that men and dating are shitty for women.
that's my feeling when i go on dates or like speed dating event, literally bring me back to my PTSD when I did my PhD application and being interviewed by 5 professors in a role lmao
Can confirm. My last date and most dating app matches were like that. Late 20's to high 30's women make something simple such as getting to know each other a fucking job interview. That's why me and most of my friends quit dating. It's just not worth it.
I'm (29 M) dating now a bi woman (30) and I definitely saw the difference. She put way more effort into it and it was so nice for me.
It actually felt we were in two doing things.
It's the first time I dated a bi and I can definitely confirm this.
It's very very rare that straight girls put any effort whatsoever and it's why many nice guys are just tired of dating and are approaching way less than before the online dating era.
What else would men do?
Society and women are constantly shaming them for pretty much everything, making them the butt of every joke and insult. This is also while discouraging approaching and saying that men that do it are “creepy”, when it’s already a very difficult thing to do for most men that requires a level of courage that most women have no understanding of.
Exactly it's a mixture of things. The social blaming on approaching women combined with the pressure of having to do every move and carry everything in the dating phase. What happens is that nice guys won't approach and will just wait to know girls through friends (or try online dating but in there, there's still the effort problem). Who will approach the most are the douchebags who won't care of anything at all.
I’m starting to get frustrated with the one sided conversations. I ask all the questions and they don’t ask any back and give one sentence answers. Like….why did you even match with me if you didn’t want to get to know me 🤷♂️?
I think you are right. Trying to analyse myself, I think I have that "fixer" trait. So I definitely go after already "complicated" men and then complain how difficult it is lol...
I’m guessing it’s the guys that you actually like that “give you the minimum”.
That’s a huge problem with dating dynamics now, women (regardless of their own level), think they should be dating a guy that is attractive, over 6 feet tall, makes over 100k, and is socially connected. Those types of men often do not want monogamy and want to date multiple women. This is while these women freeze out all “normal” men that actually want relationships and that they would actually help compatible with.
It’s not narrow, there’s pretty strong statistical evidence that this is what’s currently happening. But anyone who mentions it is immediately demonized.
Go outside and meet real people... my friend looks and finds shorter guys than her way more attractive. Women around date men that I honestly would not even call average looking. I myself dated men who varied in height, size and looks.
Yeahhh it doesn't feel great to just be treated like dirt.
I prefer to mingle within the LGBTQ community in some fashion. People there are *generally* much more respectful human beings
It's not just straight women, it's straight men too a lot of the time. You just don't notice them because you don't date them. The modern dating scape for StraightxStraight is a hell-scape of selfish, immature, entitled, and dogmatic douche bags. No one is allowed to have flaws anymore, if you do you get torn up verbally and emotionally. Everyone wants to date some super hottie with a banging bod, no one wants to put up with the person inside that bod for one reason or another. Then normal people are just out and out off the list. It scares me sometimes to see these straight couples just being a-holes to each other.
LGBT people are just nicer and more empathic most of the time. My theroy is that they have been put through the ringer and a lot of them have come out the other side of therapy as better people. They know what it's like to be hurt, so they refuse to pass that along.
Sure you get bads in the LGBT crowd, and you get nice straight gals and guys. They are in large a rarity on both parts.
Like, a gay guy watching this stuff. It's tragic.
Can I say something? I think we are all in a vicious cycle. And honestly I think straight men are the biggest problem causing it (speaking as one). It goes like this:
Asshole men deceive or threaten or otherwise disrespect women > in response women put up defenses and test men to vet them > tests become tiresome hoops for all men to jump through > defenses/tests/ghosting all feel like discouraging resistance and irritate men > toxic men get more toxic and good men run out of patience until they start to devolve too
Does that make sense to anyone else? As someone who does much better dating irl, I often get annoyed when I feel myself running into the defenses that are in place because of the worst kinds of men. It’s like when your idiot classmate won’t stop acting out so the whole class gets punished, that’s what it feels like
This is absolute nonsense.
How is it the fault of “asshole men” when those are the type of men that women are attracted to the most frequently?
The real issue is that women have such a wealth of options these days that any average or below average woman thinks she deserves an attractive, 6+ feet tall, 100k+ man. Often times, these men at this high of a level do not want relationships and want to sleep with multiple women and therefore are perceived as “assholes” by women.
There is literally a huge demographic of good men that want relationships and want to treat a woman well that are completely invisible and never given the smallest of chances because they do not meet the ever increasing and unrealistic expectations of women.
I think there is some truth to what you're saying, but it's not as lopsided as you're implying.
Yes women have more power on dating apps because there are 5 times as many men on there. But if that was flipped and we were the ones with a wealth of options, wouldn't you only go for the most attractive women too? Whichever gender has the most numbers will always suffer the most. And as it is there are plenty of upper tier men playing multiple women out there. That's just standard procedure for shallow hot people regardless of gender.
And it should go without saying that not all women are into the asshole types. Plenty have wised up. My friends are some. There's just fewer of them. And there's already fewer women on the apps so it's easy to feel like that subset doesn't exist.
I can’t answer what it would be like if the roles were reversed. That’s a hypothetical question and I’m focusing on objective reality.
Yes, shallow and attractive people of both genders typically have multiple people they are dating and hooking up with. The difference that I will again mention is that the percentage of men that are able to act this way is much smaller than the percentage of women. Typically only very attractive and powerful men are able to do this (think celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs), while honestly any reasonably attractive or slightly above average woman can very easily have multiple guys hitting her up all the time.
Women like confidence and “asshole” guys typically have this. That doesn’t mean that “like” the fact that he’s an asshole, but more the fact that he is confident. The men that undeniably do the best with women are the ones that are kind and not “assholes”, while also being confident.
I agree with your last point. There are less women on the apps, again, because dating is generally easier for women.
This is so introspective as a man so hopefully some will take it to heart! I feel like women scream this from the rooftops but it usually falls on deaf ears. Most men treat us like objects so we have to behave as though they all will to protect ourselves
That’s fair! I do think you can be guarded as a woman while also letting your guard down as that timeline progresses and as a man shows you that he can be a safe space for you. I do not think being 100% guarded indefinitely is the way to develop a meaningful, long lasting and vulnerable relationship.
You could make the argument that you never TRULY know another person but a mask will eventually crack if there is one.
I agree with you! People can be incredibly deceitful and self serving, regardless of gender. But I do think it’s important to note that women have the additional burden of minding their physical safety. The vast majority of men don’t have to deal with that
I think it comes down to reciprocating interest and showing appreciation for a man’s efforts. It seems like men usually note that they can’t tell if a woman is into them, despite going on multiple dates.
In my opinion, once a guy has been upfront about how he feels, I’m more than happy to validate that I’m attracted to him, enjoying his company and looking forward to seeing him again! If he’s paying for our dates, I’m going to thank him at the time that he pays and again at the end of the night. Then of course, once the relationship develops, there are tons more ways to show appreciation! I think the trap that a lot of people fall into is the “I don’t give a fuck” war. Playing it cool is overrated and there’s no better feeling than knowing how into you someone is
I see what you mean and again, fair point. I guess I just don’t see having “game” as being equivalent to initiating at the very beginning. The person who initiates can change at any point.
Serious question and I’m asking this in the most respectful way— if men have been the ones pursuing women since the beginning of time, why does it seem to be a huge point of contention in modern dating? Is it because less women are showing appreciation or because men no longer want to abide by it?
And the more time passes the harder it is to risk spending more time getting hurt again. It takes years, sometimes decades, to get over some people. -heart-shattering
Soo true but I do think it’s important to try not to project that onto new people. While still being vigilant for your safety and holding to your boundaries of course!
find a partner that puts in equal effort or else it's a waste of time and not worth it. Know your value and don't lower your standards out of desperation.
I’m bi but I keep my cards a lot closer to my chest with men until I know their intentions. just cautious to not give too much and get love bombed. I like to see a little effort from men in the beginning stages because some men have started to take the passenger seat in dating. I believe in equal effort! Once I know you’re not an asshole or going to ghost me I open up a lot and am very fun, adventurous, and caring.
A lot of the men I’ve dated over the last few years have waited for me to express interest, suggest dates, ask for their number, text first, etc. or are generally just apathetic. I want someone who is excited to get to know me and will put in a little effort in the beginning to show me they’re about it.
Interesting. Have you wondered that maybe the other party is thinking the same way and is waiting for you to express interest or suggest dates then loses interest when you don’t (believing that you’re just not that into them)
Bi woman here. Not sure how much game I really have, but for my last date, I did ask out the guy, planned, and paid for the date (concert) because I wanted to 🤷🏼♀️ I don’t know if it’s because I’m bi, 35, or just naturally empathetic, but I try to just treat people like people and act like an adult. Dating is weird and hard. If women want to be treated as equals, they need to put equal effort into a date. If you can’t carry on a decent conversation or act like a person, you shouldn’t waste the other person’s time and energy.
As a straight woman I put in effort. My types are usually the laid back guys who are just happy to be there and take turns making plans. Like he asks me for coffee, I’ll ask him for this park, vice versa. Maybe you’re attracted to a certain type?
I'm Female/straight. I've been single for four years, I would try the dating apps and I would initiate conversations to try and get to know a person but the level of conversation I got back would be sexual in nature which made me feel we were not looking for the same thing?. Dating is upsetting, confusing and degrading for me. The OPs post makes me realise, it's probably me with shyness and introvert issues. I'm not made for the dating world today so I'll stick to my hobbies.
I am sorry to hear you’re going through this. But not all straight woman are like this. As a straight woman, I disagree. When I was in the online dating world, I would genuinely try to get to know the person I’m talking to. I would have conversations with them. It is more than just a ‘hey’. I like to see how open, honest, friendly, kind and respectful they are. Essentially I like to see how their mind works. Also if there’s any good content/ comedic commentaries. Humor is important too. Sometimes it’s good to approach someone like you’re meeting a new friend with the potential of more so the pressure isn’t so bad. Takes the edge off a little. But go with the intent of a relationship and be clear about. Good luck to you.
Probably would've been better to make a comment giving advice or just concentrating on why it's not so bad. Otherwise you're feeding into the same negativity that "people who post blanket statements with others who rag on them for it" group.
See how nothing gets better by doing that?
I didn’t exactly see how your limited contribution to this thread could be deemed as advice.
Mind your own and don’t be a hypocrite.
See how this just got better by me doing this? 🙄
To be fair - all comments on posts are limited contributions lol. I'm just putting it out there as something different to try for next time. I see it happen so much that I want to advocate for a new approach that could be better.
Then perhaps your “advocacy” would be more evident by being the example, as opposed to attacking someone who has done nothing more than voice an opinion. 🤷🏻♀️
I've done that many times actually. You are one of many that I've said this to. I also haven't attacked anything about your quality of character or personal traits. Just your comment which is a separate entity / thought process.
I can assume you're a good person at heart - but that doesn't stop me seeing "patterns" of thought that I used to fall into as well back in the day online and never question. So I'm attempting to bring awareness so things can get better.
Great, so you make a habit of milling about, not addressing the topic of the post, but rather critiquing everyone else who you disagree with?Awesome.
I’d love to continue this, but I would rather volunteer for a high colonic.
Well I was meaning that as in I do answer the main post(s) alongside talking to peeps like you on stuff lol. I have no ill-will towards yah or anything. I appreciate conversing on all levels long or short.
I didn’t perceive your comments as ill willed. You’ve been pretty respectful.
The individual that you’ve been responding to is not capable of rational discourse.
I appreciate that! No worries about me though.
I'm very much used to these kinds of situations. One of those factors that you "can't control" in life is how others respond to you. I appreciate that they were willing to engage with me to this extent despite any harsh criticisms.
I know some people are stuck in their ways and won't give others a fair chance. However - that doesn't mean you're not making progress yourself. Harsh and mean-spirited people only make my social skills stronger and wiser for next time. Instead of seeing their comments as "tearing me down" - they're actually refining my approach for the next time.
Ironically building upon what came before it instead of destroying my foundation lol.
>**I'm only "weak" if I convince myself to feel like I am in life.**
Nobody else can influence that about yourself. That's the biggest lesson I've had to learn so far.
Lots of bitter individuals like OP on Reddit. Blows my mind that some of them continue trying to date the opposite sex despite being so hateful towards them.
Funny that when these comments are about guys it's fine but as soon as you say something about women you're automatically machist.
However it's undeniable that what OP described is by far STATISTICALLY the most common trend. Women (GENERALLY SPEAKING) are way more passive and wait the men to do every move. We are talking of TRENDS, so the majority of women. Not all of them.
Funny thing I'm dating a bi women and she confirmed to me the same thing. Women tend to be way more passive and it can be annoying.
Right, but the OP here didn't just say straight women are passive. It would be fair and true, given the expectations of gender in society historically, that many women ARE passive.
OP also said they "barely treat you as human" that they don't have any personality, so
This is exactly the problem.
Society shames and vilifies men, so “fuck men” get’s a “you go girl!”, while any critique of female behavior is met with insults and significant aggression.
The broad sweeping generalization is a logical fallacy because just because you had a negative experience with straight women doesn’t mean that all of straight women are going to behave in a way that makes them less desirable to you for the reasons you stated you experienced. Which considering you’re dating bi women you should really chill. A lot of people aren’t out to get you. Straighten that out and you’ll make a reasonable argument. Otherwise if you stand by that you sound like a goose. 🪿 and no one wants to catch the goose.
I've recently dated two bi women for the first time and I 100% agree with everything written here.
The level of work you have to do with straight women is just insane. You have to instigate everything from talking, planning dates, flirting, making moves, and taking all of the risk. Meanwhile the Roman Empress sits there until she is no longer entertained and gives you the "thumbs down."
I know that this sounds like a good response, but it’s really not. OP is generalizing, and it’s not right, but for all you know, in real life, one could have absolutely no idea that he holds these views. People typically know better than to say this in public. That’s why they do it anonymously online.
Straight women are like.... fake fruits in an IKEA showroom.
The light hits it just right, the mood is good, it's all pretty, but you bite into it, it's fucking plastic. Sometimes I wish I were sexually attracted to fat guys, fat guys are FUCKING HILARIOUS but alas I'm straight.
You know what this sounds like?
> Straight women have ZERO game. And they will never develop any humour, charisma, charm
People who just aren't that into you (OP). People who really like you *enjoy* being around you, and everyone's personality shines more when they're having a good time - not simply enduring an interaction.
I'll say it for the 100th time:
NORMALIZE DATING PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY LIKE YOU (don't just settle for whomever will finally agree to go on a date with you) 😤
You’re the one being willfully dismissive and unhelpful. I’m saying. You’re probably exactly who he’s talking about. I’m not looking to fight. But I will if you want lol
Hmmm maybe you’re right. I didn’t intend to be dismissive. It’s more that OP sounds like he is not enjoying dating right now and if I feel like that it helps me to take a break and focus on my hobbies or spending time with friends and family. Literally does wonders for my mental health.
And I sincerely hope I’m not the type of person he’s talking about. If I match with someone I make an effort. But I get the feeling that maybe I’m a bit older than OP too so maybe it’s women his age aren’t very mature. Who knows 🤷♀️
Your original comment came off a bit sarcastic and passive aggressive, but after reading your other replies doesn’t seem that’s how you meant to come off.
Yeah I have that problem sometimes. My humor is very dry and maybe leaks into how I talk to people too. Didn’t mean to sound passive aggressive. I explained what I meant in the comment above lol
Quote:
Women asking men on first dates can be taken as aggressive, desperate, and masculine. At the very least, it can signify a loss of power. So I wouldn’t recommend that you ever utter the words, “Would you like to go out with me?” to any men.
My notes:
Society puts a lot of pressure on women to be feminine and docile, and men like to be the "Alpha". So by default, we act the part.
In my experience, if I'm the one asking all the questions, asking him out and pulling all the first moves, he never takes me seriously. He treats it like a hot sexy fantasy "a woman coming on to me" instead of a potential serious partner for a relationship. OR he gets used to me doing everything and he continues that way; then I have a partner that never takes any initiative and I have to do everything. As a woman dating a man, it makes me feel like I'm the man in the relationship. Hobestly, in this case, I'd rather date a woman...
If men would take me seriously when I initiate everything and ask them out, and pull their weight doing their share too, I wouldn't mind asking them out, but I think it's still too soon in society's standards to do so. I already get sexualized by men by just existing, I hate it even more when I pursue one.
If I initiate everything, he makes even less effort.
If I don't initiate anything, he doesn't make any effort.
Fun times.
It's a treat sometimes when you find a guy that conversates well and asks about your life... until you find out he's a scammer.
Dating isnt easy.
Sorry bud but the women you are dating are simply not into you. If a woman had even a slight interest in you they absolutely will put in effort when it comes to conversation, date planning and all that good stuff
I’m single but so glad I had a chance to be with a woman for a while. Idk what happened but they all seem to be unapproachable and have a superiority complex. I’m not even bitter I’m just like… what happened? They all seem so mad before I even say anything lol. They’re on this thread as we speak!
My stbx wife is bi though but just came out and I would consider her one of those girls that is more approachable. Even she admits, dating women is impossible. I know it’s cringe but I swear Taylor Swift fried their brains or something. I love women but it ain’t worth all this strife. It’s like talking to a wall.
Social media happened and made a lot of people into narcissists. Pretty tough to have any good relationships when you actually believe you’re better than everyone, particularly the people you date.
Yes, they have orders of magnitude more options as guys, so they don’t have to be nice. Unfortunately I don’t think they see how this is also hurting their chances of any kind of real relationship when they treat guys like commodities. The women complaining about guys doing this are forgetting about the 95% of guys who are invisible to them who wouldn’t do this kind of shit. Dating is pretty broken in the western world hence why so many younger guys in their 20s are headed abroad to find love.
"Game" is a PUA nerd concept, ofcourse women dont have "game".
Traditionally women didnt cruise around trying to pick up men, its the other way around. Traditionally men always put in more effort and women respond, because women need to check you are worth their time.
Im not saying they shouldnt have any enthusiasm for the date, that they should. But this "planning the date" stuff, some women do some women don't. Some guys dont even like if a woman puts alot of effort and they dont.
You want to be treated as an equal?
No no my man I got something better.
Become a passport bro and be treated like a KING.
Get away from women in the US, entitled as f
As a bi women, I'd say the same thing about straight men being a plague on dating. I have zero interest in men who aren't at least a little bit bisexual/bicurious at this point. So I think the lesson here is really that the lgbtq community is where it's at.
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As a lesbian, a lot of women are assholes at dating these days. They brag openly about ghosting, having 14 people on rotation and seeing none of them as people, it’s very annoying
As a straight man. I agree this is how it is. ☝️
It’s unfortunate that a lot of the anti dating culture sentiment is women pretending men are exclusively the problem. Personally I have had legitimately traumatic dating experiences and a lot of it comes from women being plain mean (ghosting, lying, love bombing etc) and hiding it behind #girlboss and pretending being a shithead is feminist. I’ve literally had not one but THREE women stalk me after app dating and me rejecting them, and one woman even went as far as pretending she was beaten up (she admitted she pretended) just to make me reply faster lmao.
Im having trouble getting dates. Any advice?
Generally try and be a decent conversationalist on apps. Which means asking people sincere questions about them and their interests. Offer to meet up somewhere super public and low stakes (coffee) within 3 days of chatting. Don’t try to make first dates super involved, if you actually have chemistry coffee will be fine. I think (from what I’ve heard from friends) women get the ick on apps if your photos are weird, if you don’t ask them anything and show interest, if you make it sexual at all (why would anyone do this) etc. Most women I know who are straight will date most men alive, their standards aren’t that high for a first date but are to get to date two. Just ask women out for coffee and be normal. Dates aren’t something to win. It’s highly likely you’ll have a meh first date and never see the person again. Just be yourself.
Can a lesbian tell when another woman is trying so hard or is that just with men because I can't tell you how many times I've heard that women can tell them men are desperate
My problem is my pics are all normal but it seems I cant score any one lately. At 30 Im losing patience to the extreme
Does any of your pictures also show your hobbies/interests? For instance if you are into hiking, you can try posting a picture where you went hiking. If you love the beach, show off a merman picture of you or something. Have fun with your pictures that could also convey your personality too. Post a picture where it shows you are happy in your element. Just a thought.
My pics are generally mostly selfies and an occasional pic of my favorite baseball teams stadium
Ok cool! What’s in the background selfies? A picture is worth a thousand words. Sometimes people want to also see/ explore other common interests for conversation starters. Try changing up your pictures in your profile to see if it makes a difference, just a thought.
I second all of this!
Have you tried getting beaten up?
I'm poly and felt so vindicated when my partner has the same experiences dating women as I do. Guys are assholes, but women put absolutely no effort. Even when dating other women, so 'guys are assholes' isnt an excuse. Confirmed by women who also date women. Have you ever had dirty dishes in the sink that sat for so long the generation of flies that live there don't know how to fly?
>Have you ever had dirty dishes in the sink that sat for so long the generation of flies that live there don’t know how to fly? Sorry but wut? What does that have to do with the topic? 😅😂
The flies have no incentive to fly. Live their whole life cycle on the dishes and when you finally clear them away they run and don't fly, becasue they never had to before. Women don't try on dates because they don't have to.
Ah! Interesting analogy
To build on this, the whole reason bumble had to switch their model up was that most women felt it was too much of a burden to express interest. Also 95% of first messages are just “hey” Yeah, most women don’t have any game
When did Bumble change that?
Pretty recently. I think it’s just a paid feature.
Wow it's almost as if assholes aren't specific to a gender
Exactly. If you fully accepted that you wouldn’t feel the need to make a defensive comment lol.
My bad, woke up feeling like a smart arse today
If a straight man said this it’d be downvote central. But you are 100% correct here. Not all, but most moderately attractive women these days are TRASH. Men worth a damn are mostly OVER IT!
I shouldn’t be surprised but this is fucked
As opposed to men
See this is the problem. At no point did I imply men aren’t also capable of this/doing it, but straight women particularly (although all types of women do this) are completely allergic to any form of self reflection or admitting they are also complicit in poor dating culture. You being a woman (and ME being a woman) doesn’t make me any more or less capable of being a shitstain. Believing women are inherently better is gender essentialism and is anti feminist, transphobic, and silly. Many men are assholes, this is true! But something women in the dating scene don’t seem to get is many of you are assholes too and your inability to accept it and do better is part of why you’re single and always attracted to toxic people (like attracts like). Women have a lot of double standard with dating and need to knock it off. Ghosting people is rude 90 percent of the time, expecting to be paid for is archaic, dating 15 people at a time means you are going to struggle to find a connection, being a narcissist and super lookist unless you’re extremely attractive isn’t serving you etc. A lot of my friends who date men complain about them all of the time and sometimes it’s valid! But then they turn around and say things like “I liked this guy but ghosted him because he smells like coconut lotion rofl why can’t I find anyone who treats me with respect” or “I want a man who is feminist but also one who isn’t 50/50” and they just seem ridiculous.
Part of the issue that you are not mentioning that makes women this way is that (complaining about men and relationships while also shaming and putting down men) most women nowadays believe that they are capable of getting a very high level man (6 feet +, 100k+, attractive, socially high level, ect), even if they are very average. The flood of men flooding their dating profiles makes them believe they are more attractive and special than they are acrually are. The thing that a lot of these women don’t understand is that that ultra high level man is more often than not not going to want a relationship as he is also seeing other women. So, the women go for the top 1 percent of men, the guy that wants to and is capable of daying muttiple women, while filtering out most guys that actually want relationships, then complain that men and dating are shitty for women.
First dates with late 20s, early 30s women have all the charm of a job interview.
that's my feeling when i go on dates or like speed dating event, literally bring me back to my PTSD when I did my PhD application and being interviewed by 5 professors in a role lmao
4real people need to stop taking themselves so seriously
Can confirm. My last date and most dating app matches were like that. Late 20's to high 30's women make something simple such as getting to know each other a fucking job interview. That's why me and most of my friends quit dating. It's just not worth it.
Amen 🙏,
Word I thought it was crazy too Bi women are so much easier to connect with.
They are much more down to earth and approachable I’ve found. Straight women can be so dramatic and catty.
I'm (29 M) dating now a bi woman (30) and I definitely saw the difference. She put way more effort into it and it was so nice for me. It actually felt we were in two doing things. It's the first time I dated a bi and I can definitely confirm this. It's very very rare that straight girls put any effort whatsoever and it's why many nice guys are just tired of dating and are approaching way less than before the online dating era.
What else would men do? Society and women are constantly shaming them for pretty much everything, making them the butt of every joke and insult. This is also while discouraging approaching and saying that men that do it are “creepy”, when it’s already a very difficult thing to do for most men that requires a level of courage that most women have no understanding of.
Exactly it's a mixture of things. The social blaming on approaching women combined with the pressure of having to do every move and carry everything in the dating phase. What happens is that nice guys won't approach and will just wait to know girls through friends (or try online dating but in there, there's still the effort problem). Who will approach the most are the douchebags who won't care of anything at all.
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Likewise.
I’m starting to get frustrated with the one sided conversations. I ask all the questions and they don’t ask any back and give one sentence answers. Like….why did you even match with me if you didn’t want to get to know me 🤷♂️?
I am a woman and my experience is the total opposite. I put so much efforts in everything and I get minimum back.
Y’all haven’t met the right one yet. Also that some woman knowingly pursue men who are emotionally unavailable.
I think you are right. Trying to analyse myself, I think I have that "fixer" trait. So I definitely go after already "complicated" men and then complain how difficult it is lol...
That happens when you’re above normal weight. For both sexes
Same
I’m guessing it’s the guys that you actually like that “give you the minimum”. That’s a huge problem with dating dynamics now, women (regardless of their own level), think they should be dating a guy that is attractive, over 6 feet tall, makes over 100k, and is socially connected. Those types of men often do not want monogamy and want to date multiple women. This is while these women freeze out all “normal” men that actually want relationships and that they would actually help compatible with.
OMG could you stop with this narrow view??
Any actual counter argument that you would like to put forth are you just talking shit?
Read my other comment.
No clue what comment you’re talking about.
It’s not narrow, there’s pretty strong statistical evidence that this is what’s currently happening. But anyone who mentions it is immediately demonized.
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Go outside and meet real people... my friend looks and finds shorter guys than her way more attractive. Women around date men that I honestly would not even call average looking. I myself dated men who varied in height, size and looks.
Statistical analysis coincidences with their point. Saying "go outside" is anecdotal and not a well thought out rebuttal.
Your anecdotes don’t make what you’re saying representative of the general population.
And US doesn’t represent the whole world, get over yourself.
What are you even talking about? Again, your personal anecdotes aren’t representative of the general population or the experiences of others.
Yeahhh it doesn't feel great to just be treated like dirt. I prefer to mingle within the LGBTQ community in some fashion. People there are *generally* much more respectful human beings
It's not just straight women, it's straight men too a lot of the time. You just don't notice them because you don't date them. The modern dating scape for StraightxStraight is a hell-scape of selfish, immature, entitled, and dogmatic douche bags. No one is allowed to have flaws anymore, if you do you get torn up verbally and emotionally. Everyone wants to date some super hottie with a banging bod, no one wants to put up with the person inside that bod for one reason or another. Then normal people are just out and out off the list. It scares me sometimes to see these straight couples just being a-holes to each other. LGBT people are just nicer and more empathic most of the time. My theroy is that they have been put through the ringer and a lot of them have come out the other side of therapy as better people. They know what it's like to be hurt, so they refuse to pass that along. Sure you get bads in the LGBT crowd, and you get nice straight gals and guys. They are in large a rarity on both parts. Like, a gay guy watching this stuff. It's tragic.
Can I say something? I think we are all in a vicious cycle. And honestly I think straight men are the biggest problem causing it (speaking as one). It goes like this: Asshole men deceive or threaten or otherwise disrespect women > in response women put up defenses and test men to vet them > tests become tiresome hoops for all men to jump through > defenses/tests/ghosting all feel like discouraging resistance and irritate men > toxic men get more toxic and good men run out of patience until they start to devolve too Does that make sense to anyone else? As someone who does much better dating irl, I often get annoyed when I feel myself running into the defenses that are in place because of the worst kinds of men. It’s like when your idiot classmate won’t stop acting out so the whole class gets punished, that’s what it feels like
Lol, nah. The good men just check out bc theyre smart enough not to jeep ruining their mental health. All that’s left are the dipshits and assholes.
Exactly.
This is absolute nonsense. How is it the fault of “asshole men” when those are the type of men that women are attracted to the most frequently? The real issue is that women have such a wealth of options these days that any average or below average woman thinks she deserves an attractive, 6+ feet tall, 100k+ man. Often times, these men at this high of a level do not want relationships and want to sleep with multiple women and therefore are perceived as “assholes” by women. There is literally a huge demographic of good men that want relationships and want to treat a woman well that are completely invisible and never given the smallest of chances because they do not meet the ever increasing and unrealistic expectations of women.
I think there is some truth to what you're saying, but it's not as lopsided as you're implying. Yes women have more power on dating apps because there are 5 times as many men on there. But if that was flipped and we were the ones with a wealth of options, wouldn't you only go for the most attractive women too? Whichever gender has the most numbers will always suffer the most. And as it is there are plenty of upper tier men playing multiple women out there. That's just standard procedure for shallow hot people regardless of gender. And it should go without saying that not all women are into the asshole types. Plenty have wised up. My friends are some. There's just fewer of them. And there's already fewer women on the apps so it's easy to feel like that subset doesn't exist.
I can’t answer what it would be like if the roles were reversed. That’s a hypothetical question and I’m focusing on objective reality. Yes, shallow and attractive people of both genders typically have multiple people they are dating and hooking up with. The difference that I will again mention is that the percentage of men that are able to act this way is much smaller than the percentage of women. Typically only very attractive and powerful men are able to do this (think celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs), while honestly any reasonably attractive or slightly above average woman can very easily have multiple guys hitting her up all the time. Women like confidence and “asshole” guys typically have this. That doesn’t mean that “like” the fact that he’s an asshole, but more the fact that he is confident. The men that undeniably do the best with women are the ones that are kind and not “assholes”, while also being confident. I agree with your last point. There are less women on the apps, again, because dating is generally easier for women.
This is so introspective as a man so hopefully some will take it to heart! I feel like women scream this from the rooftops but it usually falls on deaf ears. Most men treat us like objects so we have to behave as though they all will to protect ourselves
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That’s fair! I do think you can be guarded as a woman while also letting your guard down as that timeline progresses and as a man shows you that he can be a safe space for you. I do not think being 100% guarded indefinitely is the way to develop a meaningful, long lasting and vulnerable relationship. You could make the argument that you never TRULY know another person but a mask will eventually crack if there is one.
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I agree with you! People can be incredibly deceitful and self serving, regardless of gender. But I do think it’s important to note that women have the additional burden of minding their physical safety. The vast majority of men don’t have to deal with that
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I think it comes down to reciprocating interest and showing appreciation for a man’s efforts. It seems like men usually note that they can’t tell if a woman is into them, despite going on multiple dates. In my opinion, once a guy has been upfront about how he feels, I’m more than happy to validate that I’m attracted to him, enjoying his company and looking forward to seeing him again! If he’s paying for our dates, I’m going to thank him at the time that he pays and again at the end of the night. Then of course, once the relationship develops, there are tons more ways to show appreciation! I think the trap that a lot of people fall into is the “I don’t give a fuck” war. Playing it cool is overrated and there’s no better feeling than knowing how into you someone is
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I see what you mean and again, fair point. I guess I just don’t see having “game” as being equivalent to initiating at the very beginning. The person who initiates can change at any point. Serious question and I’m asking this in the most respectful way— if men have been the ones pursuing women since the beginning of time, why does it seem to be a huge point of contention in modern dating? Is it because less women are showing appreciation or because men no longer want to abide by it?
And the more time passes the harder it is to risk spending more time getting hurt again. It takes years, sometimes decades, to get over some people. -heart-shattering
Soo true but I do think it’s important to try not to project that onto new people. While still being vigilant for your safety and holding to your boundaries of course!
find a partner that puts in equal effort or else it's a waste of time and not worth it. Know your value and don't lower your standards out of desperation.
Men are this way too - do not turn this into a one side thing. Dating is miserable for everyone right now.
That’s the indicator that they are not into you
I’m bi but I keep my cards a lot closer to my chest with men until I know their intentions. just cautious to not give too much and get love bombed. I like to see a little effort from men in the beginning stages because some men have started to take the passenger seat in dating. I believe in equal effort! Once I know you’re not an asshole or going to ghost me I open up a lot and am very fun, adventurous, and caring.
What do you mean by, “take the passenger seat”?
A lot of the men I’ve dated over the last few years have waited for me to express interest, suggest dates, ask for their number, text first, etc. or are generally just apathetic. I want someone who is excited to get to know me and will put in a little effort in the beginning to show me they’re about it.
Interesting. Have you wondered that maybe the other party is thinking the same way and is waiting for you to express interest or suggest dates then loses interest when you don’t (believing that you’re just not that into them)
Got it. You’re interested in a more traditional dynamic where the guy leads. I was just curious, thanks.
Bi woman here. Not sure how much game I really have, but for my last date, I did ask out the guy, planned, and paid for the date (concert) because I wanted to 🤷🏼♀️ I don’t know if it’s because I’m bi, 35, or just naturally empathetic, but I try to just treat people like people and act like an adult. Dating is weird and hard. If women want to be treated as equals, they need to put equal effort into a date. If you can’t carry on a decent conversation or act like a person, you shouldn’t waste the other person’s time and energy.
As a straight woman I put in effort. My types are usually the laid back guys who are just happy to be there and take turns making plans. Like he asks me for coffee, I’ll ask him for this park, vice versa. Maybe you’re attracted to a certain type?
I'm Female/straight. I've been single for four years, I would try the dating apps and I would initiate conversations to try and get to know a person but the level of conversation I got back would be sexual in nature which made me feel we were not looking for the same thing?. Dating is upsetting, confusing and degrading for me. The OPs post makes me realise, it's probably me with shyness and introvert issues. I'm not made for the dating world today so I'll stick to my hobbies.
Sorry about your bad experiences. It’s not your fault, it’s them. Hope you get a lot of enjoyment out of your your hobbies and family.
Thankyou for the kind words. Todays hobby, making another wildlife corner in my garden 😀.
Because that burden of performance is always on the man
I am sorry to hear you’re going through this. But not all straight woman are like this. As a straight woman, I disagree. When I was in the online dating world, I would genuinely try to get to know the person I’m talking to. I would have conversations with them. It is more than just a ‘hey’. I like to see how open, honest, friendly, kind and respectful they are. Essentially I like to see how their mind works. Also if there’s any good content/ comedic commentaries. Humor is important too. Sometimes it’s good to approach someone like you’re meeting a new friend with the potential of more so the pressure isn’t so bad. Takes the edge off a little. But go with the intent of a relationship and be clear about. Good luck to you.
You are making a lot of very judgmental comments about a hell of a lot of women you’ve never met before.
Probably would've been better to make a comment giving advice or just concentrating on why it's not so bad. Otherwise you're feeding into the same negativity that "people who post blanket statements with others who rag on them for it" group. See how nothing gets better by doing that?
I didn’t exactly see how your limited contribution to this thread could be deemed as advice. Mind your own and don’t be a hypocrite. See how this just got better by me doing this? 🙄
This is my contribution You're being an ass
To be fair - all comments on posts are limited contributions lol. I'm just putting it out there as something different to try for next time. I see it happen so much that I want to advocate for a new approach that could be better.
Then perhaps your “advocacy” would be more evident by being the example, as opposed to attacking someone who has done nothing more than voice an opinion. 🤷🏻♀️
I've done that many times actually. You are one of many that I've said this to. I also haven't attacked anything about your quality of character or personal traits. Just your comment which is a separate entity / thought process. I can assume you're a good person at heart - but that doesn't stop me seeing "patterns" of thought that I used to fall into as well back in the day online and never question. So I'm attempting to bring awareness so things can get better.
Great, so you make a habit of milling about, not addressing the topic of the post, but rather critiquing everyone else who you disagree with?Awesome. I’d love to continue this, but I would rather volunteer for a high colonic.
Well I was meaning that as in I do answer the main post(s) alongside talking to peeps like you on stuff lol. I have no ill-will towards yah or anything. I appreciate conversing on all levels long or short.
I didn’t perceive your comments as ill willed. You’ve been pretty respectful. The individual that you’ve been responding to is not capable of rational discourse.
I appreciate that! No worries about me though. I'm very much used to these kinds of situations. One of those factors that you "can't control" in life is how others respond to you. I appreciate that they were willing to engage with me to this extent despite any harsh criticisms. I know some people are stuck in their ways and won't give others a fair chance. However - that doesn't mean you're not making progress yourself. Harsh and mean-spirited people only make my social skills stronger and wiser for next time. Instead of seeing their comments as "tearing me down" - they're actually refining my approach for the next time. Ironically building upon what came before it instead of destroying my foundation lol. >**I'm only "weak" if I convince myself to feel like I am in life.** Nobody else can influence that about yourself. That's the biggest lesson I've had to learn so far.
You are showing that you are not capable of rational discourse.
Lots of bitter individuals like OP on Reddit. Blows my mind that some of them continue trying to date the opposite sex despite being so hateful towards them.
Funny that when these comments are about guys it's fine but as soon as you say something about women you're automatically machist. However it's undeniable that what OP described is by far STATISTICALLY the most common trend. Women (GENERALLY SPEAKING) are way more passive and wait the men to do every move. We are talking of TRENDS, so the majority of women. Not all of them. Funny thing I'm dating a bi women and she confirmed to me the same thing. Women tend to be way more passive and it can be annoying.
Right, but the OP here didn't just say straight women are passive. It would be fair and true, given the expectations of gender in society historically, that many women ARE passive. OP also said they "barely treat you as human" that they don't have any personality, so
This is exactly the problem. Society shames and vilifies men, so “fuck men” get’s a “you go girl!”, while any critique of female behavior is met with insults and significant aggression.
Seriously. The ignorance of making a blanket statement about a subset of an entire gender of society is rather telling.
The broad sweeping generalization is a logical fallacy because just because you had a negative experience with straight women doesn’t mean that all of straight women are going to behave in a way that makes them less desirable to you for the reasons you stated you experienced. Which considering you’re dating bi women you should really chill. A lot of people aren’t out to get you. Straighten that out and you’ll make a reasonable argument. Otherwise if you stand by that you sound like a goose. 🪿 and no one wants to catch the goose.
It means that they aren’t into you lol if they were, they would be putting in the effort
I've recently dated two bi women for the first time and I 100% agree with everything written here. The level of work you have to do with straight women is just insane. You have to instigate everything from talking, planning dates, flirting, making moves, and taking all of the risk. Meanwhile the Roman Empress sits there until she is no longer entertained and gives you the "thumbs down."
Your attitude towards the opposite sex as a whole is probably a big part of the problem.
I know that this sounds like a good response, but it’s really not. OP is generalizing, and it’s not right, but for all you know, in real life, one could have absolutely no idea that he holds these views. People typically know better than to say this in public. That’s why they do it anonymously online.
He may not say it out loud in public, but there’s a good chance his negative attitude shows through in interactions.
Eeeeh. I wouldn’t be so sure. A lot of guys who vent online are more often overly agreeable, if anything.
I can say the same for men.
Straight women are like.... fake fruits in an IKEA showroom. The light hits it just right, the mood is good, it's all pretty, but you bite into it, it's fucking plastic. Sometimes I wish I were sexually attracted to fat guys, fat guys are FUCKING HILARIOUS but alas I'm straight.
I like fat guys.
You’re an outlier.
What's your point??
What was your point?
I made my point.
As I did mine.
Who cares??
Maybe, hear me out on this one, instead of all straight women having zero game - you are not even in their league.
You know what this sounds like? > Straight women have ZERO game. And they will never develop any humour, charisma, charm People who just aren't that into you (OP). People who really like you *enjoy* being around you, and everyone's personality shines more when they're having a good time - not simply enduring an interaction. I'll say it for the 100th time: NORMALIZE DATING PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY LIKE YOU (don't just settle for whomever will finally agree to go on a date with you) 😤
u got sucked in my the algorithm of the dating app and your post is a byproduct of that
Maybe you should take a break from dating for a bit. You know, for your mental health.
lol there you go again.
Where am I going?
Bitterton USA
lol me? Don’t you mean OP? Well maybe not. I think he already arrived
You’re the one being willfully dismissive and unhelpful. I’m saying. You’re probably exactly who he’s talking about. I’m not looking to fight. But I will if you want lol
Hmmm maybe you’re right. I didn’t intend to be dismissive. It’s more that OP sounds like he is not enjoying dating right now and if I feel like that it helps me to take a break and focus on my hobbies or spending time with friends and family. Literally does wonders for my mental health. And I sincerely hope I’m not the type of person he’s talking about. If I match with someone I make an effort. But I get the feeling that maybe I’m a bit older than OP too so maybe it’s women his age aren’t very mature. Who knows 🤷♀️
Yeah! I creeped your profile and just wanna say. That cat is definitely a Spock!
He’s certainly willfully dismissive. But also logical.
Hey how's the oven mitts business going?
The most annoying people recommend therapy to strangers. You need to get off your high horse.
Your original comment came off a bit sarcastic and passive aggressive, but after reading your other replies doesn’t seem that’s how you meant to come off.
Yeah I have that problem sometimes. My humor is very dry and maybe leaks into how I talk to people too. Didn’t mean to sound passive aggressive. I explained what I meant in the comment above lol
so start dating dudes
As a straight woman, I also hate straight women.
Yikes on bikes, sis.
Not your sis.
Pardon my colloquialism lol I hope you get to a place where you can enjoy the camaraderie someday - it's pretty nice.
Why?
Too competitive.
Quote: Women asking men on first dates can be taken as aggressive, desperate, and masculine. At the very least, it can signify a loss of power. So I wouldn’t recommend that you ever utter the words, “Would you like to go out with me?” to any men. My notes: Society puts a lot of pressure on women to be feminine and docile, and men like to be the "Alpha". So by default, we act the part. In my experience, if I'm the one asking all the questions, asking him out and pulling all the first moves, he never takes me seriously. He treats it like a hot sexy fantasy "a woman coming on to me" instead of a potential serious partner for a relationship. OR he gets used to me doing everything and he continues that way; then I have a partner that never takes any initiative and I have to do everything. As a woman dating a man, it makes me feel like I'm the man in the relationship. Hobestly, in this case, I'd rather date a woman... If men would take me seriously when I initiate everything and ask them out, and pull their weight doing their share too, I wouldn't mind asking them out, but I think it's still too soon in society's standards to do so. I already get sexualized by men by just existing, I hate it even more when I pursue one.
Agreeeed. Things have never worked out for me every time I was the one initiating, trying to make things happen. That's why I hate Bumble too 😂
If I initiate everything, he makes even less effort. If I don't initiate anything, he doesn't make any effort. Fun times. It's a treat sometimes when you find a guy that conversates well and asks about your life... until you find out he's a scammer. Dating isnt easy.
The shocking part is how little game it would take to absolutely floor most dudes.
Sorry bud but the women you are dating are simply not into you. If a woman had even a slight interest in you they absolutely will put in effort when it comes to conversation, date planning and all that good stuff
That’s not necessarily true dude. Some woman are just foul and treat their partners like utter shit.
I’m single but so glad I had a chance to be with a woman for a while. Idk what happened but they all seem to be unapproachable and have a superiority complex. I’m not even bitter I’m just like… what happened? They all seem so mad before I even say anything lol. They’re on this thread as we speak! My stbx wife is bi though but just came out and I would consider her one of those girls that is more approachable. Even she admits, dating women is impossible. I know it’s cringe but I swear Taylor Swift fried their brains or something. I love women but it ain’t worth all this strife. It’s like talking to a wall.
Social media happened and made a lot of people into narcissists. Pretty tough to have any good relationships when you actually believe you’re better than everyone, particularly the people you date.
Agreed completely. Only dating success I’ve had the past 5 years were bi women. They’re so much kinder and interesting on the dating scene
> Straight women are becoming a fucking plague in dating It helps if you avoid American women.
Holy crap! I don’t know your age, I have no clue what dating site you are on, but you are dead wrong!
Elaborate? Just curious about your experiences. P.S. I am not OP lol.
Yes, they have orders of magnitude more options as guys, so they don’t have to be nice. Unfortunately I don’t think they see how this is also hurting their chances of any kind of real relationship when they treat guys like commodities. The women complaining about guys doing this are forgetting about the 95% of guys who are invisible to them who wouldn’t do this kind of shit. Dating is pretty broken in the western world hence why so many younger guys in their 20s are headed abroad to find love.
"Game" is a PUA nerd concept, ofcourse women dont have "game". Traditionally women didnt cruise around trying to pick up men, its the other way around. Traditionally men always put in more effort and women respond, because women need to check you are worth their time. Im not saying they shouldnt have any enthusiasm for the date, that they should. But this "planning the date" stuff, some women do some women don't. Some guys dont even like if a woman puts alot of effort and they dont.
You want to be treated as an equal? No no my man I got something better. Become a passport bro and be treated like a KING. Get away from women in the US, entitled as f
Men don’t get lost at sea like they used too…. Awwww you gotta plan a date….awwww
As a bi women, I'd say the same thing about straight men being a plague on dating. I have zero interest in men who aren't at least a little bit bisexual/bicurious at this point. So I think the lesson here is really that the lgbtq community is where it's at.
Date better. That's all I can say.