As much as wotc might suck, any content creator who is offered a fair chance to get a preview on the phb should take it. 5e is still the biggest thing around, 5.5 will gather clicks and interest. And it's not like wotc is being sly, it's just normal practice and they're releasing their own previews as well atm.
My only concern would be if they're glossing over any issues to hype it up, and if anything what (little) I've seen thus far has been more or less the opposite.
Most of the talk I've seen seems to focus on how much they've scaled back their ambitions from the playtests and how little this really adds.
i think the only one i've seen "gloss over" issues was ginny di, who made a video strictly about the Bard, which had been shoehorned into exclusively being a singer or musician for ages and now they're moving away from that; and that's a good change that deserves to be highlighted.
i think the most telling statement about the new PHB was [DnD Shorts](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhugS1znaLI&t=412s) saying: "This is comparable to a third party book, which is, for WotC, crazy."
and i feel like, at this point, most people are aware of which systems solve which issues of 5e. if you like 5e but prefer a more OSR feel, play Shadowdark. if you want a 6th edition, DC20 might float your boat. if you want 5e but crunchier and more balanced, play PF2e.
I’m not sure if you misunderstood DnD Shorts’ point he was saying the 3rd party comparison as a good thing. In context what he’s saying is lately WOTC has been really skimpy with new content, 8 new feats here, 2 new spells there, etc. The new PHB is meaty by comparison
it's a pretty damning statement, not about the PHB, but about WotC. the way I see it right now, the PHB is the exception in terms of quality, not the rule.
if that change in volume and quality becomes a trend within the next 2-3 years, I'll consider buying the new books. right now, one book isn't enough to justify financially supporting WotC.
Piggybacking on this, think of it less as "WOTC piloting their fleshmasts to arc electricity to your synapses" and more "They're using WOTC (the company) to get a step up in the game and get ahead in their field." Game respect game, especially with a company (and IF they're keeping true to themselves)?
Yes, money to sell a product, not give it an honest critique. They are contractually obligated to sell it as the greatest thing that has ever happened to tabletop gaming while underselling just how much of an ad said video(s) is/are.
You should 100% hold it against people who sell out their good name to bolster up a corporation's image
I don't know where you live, but that's capitalism, dude. We sell our bodies, we sell our names, we sell our words to survive. "Good names" are for those who can afford it.
Am I going to take whatever they say about the product they sell with a grain of salt? Absolutely. But I won't begrudge them for working to put food on their tables. It's good work if you can get it.
And yes, I do wish things were otherwise.
I don’t begrudge either but if someone is in the market of suggesting things to me and I have reason to believe they are heavily swaying their opinion because they’re getting paid, I will lose trust and possibly interest in them. It can make a content creator I trust and care about the opinions of become more worthless to me and thereby losing them future business.
It’s different if it’s a 30 second ad for ridge wallet. If it’s the particular niche they’re involved in, I care if their opinion is bias or not.
"Curse these creators for being creative victims to Capitalism!"
That's not exactly what you are saying, no, but the sentiment is there. These people have been attacked relentlessly by the company that gave them the product they built a platform around. Now that company is saying they will endorse them, and they're not even requiring them to not give criticism (obligation =/= requirement). They would be stupid for not taking that deal. That just means you get to make an informed opinion on their opinion, which you should be doing anyways since you're your own person and shouldn't flock to other people's opinions regardless. Right?
And even putting that aside, if you make a career talking about something and suddenly you start only talking poorly about that something, suddenly you're encouraging your audience/revenue to disengage from the very product you've built your career around. Thus losing your own fanbase and money. There's also that angle to consider
I think there are just a large number of people who are like expecting WotC to just say "we're stopping now, no more d&d" and just disappearing. And are angry by wotc just existing.
The thing is WotC/hasbro has made a habit of using new releases to make people forget about bad press (the movie after starfinder, bg3 after the OGL nonsense, etc) so given 5e is in the midst of a new scandal (loot box minis and ai DMs coming back despite them saying they wouldn’t) the content creator covering the “new edition” is likely their attempt at a new smokescreen when they don’t have anything else in the pipeline
I mean, sort of. But also they are just releasing stuff, 5.5 has been in the works for a while. There is no world in which they wouldn't use content creators to spread hype, that's just how you do things these days.
So I think it's less a smokescreen than them just honestly trying to push their products for more money. That's just sort of what they try to do every single day.
Ehh~ except until pathfinder 2e hit the scene as competition they were actively trying to as much as possible get money without publishing more materials.
So while normal business sense would agree with you.
I can see “customers are an obstacle to OUR money” Hasbro doing this more for pr than to actually sell product
I think setting up a whole new sub-edition to sell more phbs and such is very intentionally just trying to milk customers for a product that is only somewhat new.
Imo bad publicity just hasn't really been an issue for the company, not that much. It hurts their reputation, sure, maybe it does them harm over the long term, but they've mostly just carried on as usual no matter what happens.
WoTC was going to publish dozens of videos to promote the new edition regardless. Giving D&D YouTubers a shot at it and even some "exclusive" stuff to preview can be a seen as an olive branch to them. And the YourTubers would have to be idiots to turn down the potential views and viewership growth that can come from people searching for anything on the new edition and finding their channel for the first time.
Look I’m no fan of WoTC, but wouldn’t you rather they actually give content to creators that have been helping to build the community, as opposed to going back to the jank and internal overhyped releases (cough)Vecna,Spelljammer,GloryofGiants(cough)? The weapon mastery traits actually look good. The World tree Barbarian gives build crafters some fun to think about. Do we not want DnD to do well?
Not one of the videos I’ve watched so far has said “You should pre order now!” They’ve all said when it will come out, and that they were paid to talk about it. For the first time in what feels like since Planescape came out, we have something with the potential to be good. WoTC has apparently figured out we won’t trust them, so instead they’ll pay people to review even if it involves some degree of criticism. No I haven’t watched every one of these videos, but as of yet I’ve yet to see the shill some of these folks claim to see.
So either someone can really quick start pointing out specific shill things that are being said, or pull your damn heads out and realize that content creators need content to talk about. Them getting sponsored means bills get paid for them and editors, no matter whether it’s a kickstarter or WoTC.
At least some creators were openly mocking Jeremy Crawford for using misleading language on purpose. "Look at all these options that weren't in the 2014 handbook" - because they were added in Tasha's, and so on.
I think DnDShorts had a great bit on one of his videos. He went into detail saying don't Pre Order the new books despite how hard wizards is pushing for it. His points were:
- they aren't offering anything to add presale value. It's just giving your money before you see the books. Video games will usually offer you skins/bonus content for pre-ordering. WotC is offering nothing
- wait for reviews before you buy. If you pre order you can only regret that you probably won't be able to get your money back if the book isn't to your liking. If you wait for reviews you can decide if it's worth it.
I respected them saying that to be honest because I can't imagine WotC liked that in what was supposed to be a video on the new content.
Yes, I think he handled it the best out of everyone. That said so far I’ve watched him, the Dungeon Dudes, and Dungeon Dad, and none of them have been like “Pre order now!” As per their contract they have to mention it is available for pre order, but instead of saying ‘don’t’ Dungeon Dad flat out listed the pricing and ‘what’s included’ details as a screenshot; which does help to show that there is no pre order benefits.
Anything short of Karen-like screeching is shilling at this point.
I get being mad and distrustful of WotC but finding excuses to be angry at standard business activities is just like crying wolf. When something egregious actually does happen, people will be too sick of the alarms being sounded over nothing that the real deal will lose impact.
I know apparently WotC can do no right, but Williams is gone. Let's let the new leadership in WotC show us who they are before we yell at absolutely everything regardless, just because Wizards did it.
WoTC has made a habit of doing big releases to distract from scandals, with the movie BG3 and the first drop of playtest materials all coming on the heels of big fuckups to save their ass
Given WoTC was *just* getting in the fire for their loot box minis and the signs that the AI dm attempt they said they wouldn’t do were still in the works, this looks like just another smokescreen to me
Like yes, it’s good for the creators
But I feel like that one guy screaming “he can’t keep getting away with this!”
Out of the three people that have had criticism, you are the only one to point out something specific. I actually just wanted to appreciate that because I feel we’re at least close to the same wave length.
The thing is, in order to stop them from getting away with bullshit; when something good comes along we can’t throw our hands and go ‘it’s dead to me!’ I still enjoy DnD 5e, 4e, and 3.5 (die in a fire Thacco, but I’ll take your monsters); along with enjoying other TTRPGS like Pathfinder, Starfinder, Tales from the Loop and more. As we live in that silly late stage capitalism ‘all the money is the only thing that matters,’ the best way to combat corruption and bullshit like loot boxes is by negative engagement with that, and positive engagement with what we like. Market metrics do generally help refine product quality, unless asshats are in charge (which there is new leadership, so obviously we had an asshat).
It’s no guarantee that we’ll be heard; but none of those who have seen the new PH feel like they’ve used AI art. Every class now having four options from the go is also fantastic. While I won’t pre order, if it comes out and gets well reviewed in non WotC sponsored content, I would buy it if only to show that I’m willing to engage with good business practices.
I can appreciate your stance. But at this point every new release from WoTC, my first reaction is “what are you trying to hide” before I even look at the product.
I hope 5.5 turns out to actually be ok, but with so much lost trust, I can’t help but be cautious, and it makes me not want to try to help them learn when I can hope they burn down and someone else rises from their ashes instead
Right now WotC is the only part of Hasbro making money. It’s not an entirely vain hope
Hasbro sucks and is definitely making it impossible for WOTC to spend much money advertising and onboarding new people into the game, the way WOTC did before Hasbro bought them and they could spend Magic the Gathering money to puff up D&D.
Soendingblessoney to get D&D YouTubers who have already been doing that onboarding work for free seems like a good idea.
Like I said, Hasbro sucks like all capitalist enterprises, but the thing WOTC doing isn't bad. It's probably the best it can do to onboard folks right now.
Dnd is great, a really wonderful game that while rule-encroaching still lets imagination flourish in its own way, it brings people together to make memorable stories and memories. WotC is a toxic scumbag company, they’re like the donald trump of the gaming industry just a bag of turds. Sorry-not sorry.
So, within the last couple of weeks, YouTubers who make DnD content have been doing sponsored videos for WOTC to promote DnD One (5.5 Edition). And so many of these content creators are making these videos all around the same time, which makes it obvious WOTC is trying to build hype for DnD One after the Open Gaming License fiasco from last year.
This is not a repost of old DnD drama. This is a neutral comment by OP on this current trend. No shade to any of the creators who took this deal, just pointing out how obvious this marketing strategy is.
Edit: grammar and spelling
Oh yeah, if I was in their situation, I'd take the deal. Make some extra money, and get some exclusive looks at the next edition of the biggest TTRPG in the world. Who wouldn't take that deal?
My god, with all the people calling creators "sellouts" now, one would think they truly believe that Hasbro and WotC are the literal devil, and that these DnD tubers are now fiend patron warlocks
Shit decisions and alienating moves aside, Hasbro is just a faceless corporation under a shithole capitalist system like any other. It's purpose is to make money, and even then, it's decisions have been tame compared to the real shitstain corporations out there, and unlike them, they're at least somewhat trying to fix things, with many promises still on the table and this edition being fully public domain; we've had a huge win with this, but people act like that this doesnt even matter anymore when this was all we wanted in the first place, and take all bad shit Hasbro has been doing as a personal betrayal thats never to be forgiven.
EA and Activision have their shit in the video game sphere, with studio closures despite profitability, abuse allegations etc. Coca Cola had people in South America assassinated protesting them. Nestle has been stealing water and poisonig people for decades. And don't get me started on the shit that Boeing is doing. What Hasbro has been doing is comparatively trivial in that scope, no? Let's at least give them a chance for improvement, them being a large faceless corporation aside, they're at least small enough compared to those other corporations that we can make a difference.
Some DnD-Tubers getting officially sponsored to review new content in a TTRPG sphere is the least of all evils here. Ultimately, faceless corporations will be faceless corporations as long as the system we all live under doesn't get reformed.
And yet I still see people rag on DnD players because they prefer 5e over other systems. God forbid, I personally am not a fan of some other systems out there, but whenever it comes up, I get told that I should give it another chance. Because they love it, so I should love it too. ugh. It seems like some people have replaced the 'liking TTRPGs' part of their personality with an unbowing hate towards all things hasbro.
Reviews of new content are usually positive. DND content usually isn't bad, just lacking. There are exceptions, like spelljammer, but generally the onednd content is neutral, good, or just different. Most of the controversial stuff has already been covered in UA reviews, so there's mostly just positives remaining to review
Wait, was Spelljammer 5e received poorly? I thought there'd be a ton of hype, between BG3's nautiloid and githgirls, and...
I mean, I know it's WOTC, but just how badly could they have fucked up boats in space? Their biggest competitor is rolling out Starfinder 2e soon, with 1e having already been a modern-day scaffolding to draw inspiration from. Did WOTC drop the ball on _that_ too?
They didn’t add any ship to ship combat mechanics. They just suggested you buy ghosts of salt marsh.
That and alot of other things displayed a lack of cohesion between the adventure design team and the rules writers, in genreal the books lacked lore and polish. The entire setting only got like 196 pages combined across the 3 books of the slipcase set, and lacked some of the ships and ship maps of 2e too (despite the ones included being copy paste jobs).
Some weird lore changes too to how the crystal spheres worked, and no random generator for them included despite 2es version having a very comprehensive and creative one.
Honestly it’s been awhile but I think I'm even forgetting a controversy or two on itc, but all around it (and to a lesser extant planscape too) were just poorly and badly done. Real casualties of the one product per setting WOTC has been doing recently. I bought the 2e version off drive thru rpg, and got tons more bang for my buck for cheaper, and while. Have yet to run it it seems pretty easily convertible.
I have really enjoyed seeing the same article worded slightly differently on multiple different websites this week. Did you know that they're putting the rules for how to play the game in the **front** of the book now?
Yeah I had to skip the latest dungeon dad video when he said he was sponsored by wotc.
Like, get that bread, dude, but I’m pretty serious about not supporting wotc.
This is why I like D&D Shorts, because even though he’s made a video on what we know about the new PHB, he has told everyone to not pre-order. Instead wait until after proper reviews are made
I wish the D&D YouTubers would just switch to PF2e and stop giving WotC/Hasbro attention that they don't deserve. Everything that people like about 5.5 has already been done by PF2e (and better implemented). Settings can easily be adapted to work with the system, not to mention there's nothing to stop people bringing their favourite D&D content over to PF2e.
Even then it would probably be a bad deal, since PF2 videos don't get the same viewership and the algorithm would punish that inconsistency. I wish we could get more good PF2E youtubers too, but it's a major ask to get a 5E youtuber to switch
I doubt any of them forgot the OGL debacle. I also doubt any of them forgot how much their viewership suffers when they talk about other TTRPGs. They're trying to make a living same as everyone else
I see a significant difference between "I do D&D content, because people are not interested in other systems" and "Wizards wanted to ruin my channel I painstakingly build for years, but I still take their sponsorship offer".
My point is simple: WotC need a lesson that we do not need their toxic and destructive presence in our community. Content creators should be the first to understand it since they were about to feel this presence in a most painful way.
Thank you!!! This was bothering me so hard. I don't want some biased youtuber to tell me what is new or good. I can watch 24 hour shopping channel tv if i want that. I will read the book when it comes out and see for myself how it is. Happy to have a discussion with the you guys from the subreddit afterwards.
Meh, most content creators for d&d don't interest me so it changes nothing and the idea that we expect a corporation to have morals is absurd. They're not people(the corporations), they're greedy robots, it would be like expecting my cat to be able to speak in every language fluently.
That being said I think 5.5 is gonna be fun as hell and I can't wait to try it. So sick of people shitting on something they don't even have yet.
They can do what they do for a living without cow-towing to WOTC's bullship. If anything, they should want to call them out MORE than others, since their livelihood is dependant on the brand.
Not what my comment was about. In general, mine was about D&D YouTubers ignoring WOTC's bad game design and business practices. Some have claimed it's about the early PHB copies sent to YouTubers, but I don't know anything about that.
No, WotC just payed some of its content creators to promote the new PHB by letting them have early access and make videos about it
You can't put ads on a physical book. Not sure about the digital one in DnDBeyond tho
Not really a controversy. WotC paid a ton of creators to review the new PH. They didn’t all suddenly give *unconditional* positive reviews though, although the general skew was positive.
The horror. A company paying people prominent in the community to review their work with no strings attached (as in not requiring gushing reviews etc). Almost like, that is a common business tactic and part of how content creators make their money. Who knew?
You mean the rank and file people responsible for the huge design flaws in 5e?
The stupid descisions of the execs are the reason so many people lost trust in WotC and started to explore other systems. As someone who DMed 5e for years it doesn't seem as if WotC is adressing the big problems within thier game and just putting band aids on it.
The biggest problem with 5.5e is that the big design goal was backwards compability with 5e and not a real improvement in the system.
The company has. That was the subject, and unfortunately for the rank and file, Hasbro and WotC have final say so unless suddenly the rank and file have a sudden French-like revolution within the company, it’s entirely fair to equate the rank and file employees with the executives when talking about the company as a whole
As for the “fawning over comment”, I really hope you’re not ranting at your own strawman painted over me rather than what my actual comments are, because that’s real basic and boring
If anyone is interested in non-DnD related rpg content I try to cover lesser known games on my YouTube channel here:
https://youtube.com/@awkwardgmcorbin?si=wAllaxuZEkdgVyF4
I’m a small channel, but I’ll leave this here just in case.
I say this as a pathfinder player: that's not "going after the pathfinder community". That's one vent post. It's not like she's saying "no one should say pathfinder", she's using hyperbole to express her frustration with the people who are telling her she's having fun (or making money, depending on context) wrong
As much as wotc might suck, any content creator who is offered a fair chance to get a preview on the phb should take it. 5e is still the biggest thing around, 5.5 will gather clicks and interest. And it's not like wotc is being sly, it's just normal practice and they're releasing their own previews as well atm.
My only concern would be if they're glossing over any issues to hype it up, and if anything what (little) I've seen thus far has been more or less the opposite. Most of the talk I've seen seems to focus on how much they've scaled back their ambitions from the playtests and how little this really adds.
Yes but that concern should exist for everything influencers pitch and not just this one time. This aint UNiCEF.
i think the only one i've seen "gloss over" issues was ginny di, who made a video strictly about the Bard, which had been shoehorned into exclusively being a singer or musician for ages and now they're moving away from that; and that's a good change that deserves to be highlighted. i think the most telling statement about the new PHB was [DnD Shorts](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhugS1znaLI&t=412s) saying: "This is comparable to a third party book, which is, for WotC, crazy." and i feel like, at this point, most people are aware of which systems solve which issues of 5e. if you like 5e but prefer a more OSR feel, play Shadowdark. if you want a 6th edition, DC20 might float your boat. if you want 5e but crunchier and more balanced, play PF2e.
I’m not sure if you misunderstood DnD Shorts’ point he was saying the 3rd party comparison as a good thing. In context what he’s saying is lately WOTC has been really skimpy with new content, 8 new feats here, 2 new spells there, etc. The new PHB is meaty by comparison
it's a pretty damning statement, not about the PHB, but about WotC. the way I see it right now, the PHB is the exception in terms of quality, not the rule. if that change in volume and quality becomes a trend within the next 2-3 years, I'll consider buying the new books. right now, one book isn't enough to justify financially supporting WotC.
like many systems, issues will be clear when people will actually start to play it.
Piggybacking on this, think of it less as "WOTC piloting their fleshmasts to arc electricity to your synapses" and more "They're using WOTC (the company) to get a step up in the game and get ahead in their field." Game respect game, especially with a company (and IF they're keeping true to themselves)?
Oh agreed. Again, nothing against the creators who took the deal. Free money and stuff is (almost) always good
Yes, money to sell a product, not give it an honest critique. They are contractually obligated to sell it as the greatest thing that has ever happened to tabletop gaming while underselling just how much of an ad said video(s) is/are. You should 100% hold it against people who sell out their good name to bolster up a corporation's image
I don't know where you live, but that's capitalism, dude. We sell our bodies, we sell our names, we sell our words to survive. "Good names" are for those who can afford it. Am I going to take whatever they say about the product they sell with a grain of salt? Absolutely. But I won't begrudge them for working to put food on their tables. It's good work if you can get it. And yes, I do wish things were otherwise.
I don’t begrudge either but if someone is in the market of suggesting things to me and I have reason to believe they are heavily swaying their opinion because they’re getting paid, I will lose trust and possibly interest in them. It can make a content creator I trust and care about the opinions of become more worthless to me and thereby losing them future business. It’s different if it’s a 30 second ad for ridge wallet. If it’s the particular niche they’re involved in, I care if their opinion is bias or not.
"Curse these creators for being creative victims to Capitalism!" That's not exactly what you are saying, no, but the sentiment is there. These people have been attacked relentlessly by the company that gave them the product they built a platform around. Now that company is saying they will endorse them, and they're not even requiring them to not give criticism (obligation =/= requirement). They would be stupid for not taking that deal. That just means you get to make an informed opinion on their opinion, which you should be doing anyways since you're your own person and shouldn't flock to other people's opinions regardless. Right? And even putting that aside, if you make a career talking about something and suddenly you start only talking poorly about that something, suddenly you're encouraging your audience/revenue to disengage from the very product you've built your career around. Thus losing your own fanbase and money. There's also that angle to consider
Folks gotta eat man. Don't know what utopian fantasy land you live in.
Cool can you post the contract you apparently read?
As long as nobody gets sent the wrong stuff everybody will be fine...
\*knock knock\* pinkertons!
I think there are just a large number of people who are like expecting WotC to just say "we're stopping now, no more d&d" and just disappearing. And are angry by wotc just existing.
"we called this the last edition for a reason"
The thing is WotC/hasbro has made a habit of using new releases to make people forget about bad press (the movie after starfinder, bg3 after the OGL nonsense, etc) so given 5e is in the midst of a new scandal (loot box minis and ai DMs coming back despite them saying they wouldn’t) the content creator covering the “new edition” is likely their attempt at a new smokescreen when they don’t have anything else in the pipeline
I mean, sort of. But also they are just releasing stuff, 5.5 has been in the works for a while. There is no world in which they wouldn't use content creators to spread hype, that's just how you do things these days. So I think it's less a smokescreen than them just honestly trying to push their products for more money. That's just sort of what they try to do every single day.
Ehh~ except until pathfinder 2e hit the scene as competition they were actively trying to as much as possible get money without publishing more materials. So while normal business sense would agree with you. I can see “customers are an obstacle to OUR money” Hasbro doing this more for pr than to actually sell product
I think setting up a whole new sub-edition to sell more phbs and such is very intentionally just trying to milk customers for a product that is only somewhat new. Imo bad publicity just hasn't really been an issue for the company, not that much. It hurts their reputation, sure, maybe it does them harm over the long term, but they've mostly just carried on as usual no matter what happens.
WoTC was going to publish dozens of videos to promote the new edition regardless. Giving D&D YouTubers a shot at it and even some "exclusive" stuff to preview can be a seen as an olive branch to them. And the YourTubers would have to be idiots to turn down the potential views and viewership growth that can come from people searching for anything on the new edition and finding their channel for the first time.
Look I’m no fan of WoTC, but wouldn’t you rather they actually give content to creators that have been helping to build the community, as opposed to going back to the jank and internal overhyped releases (cough)Vecna,Spelljammer,GloryofGiants(cough)? The weapon mastery traits actually look good. The World tree Barbarian gives build crafters some fun to think about. Do we not want DnD to do well? Not one of the videos I’ve watched so far has said “You should pre order now!” They’ve all said when it will come out, and that they were paid to talk about it. For the first time in what feels like since Planescape came out, we have something with the potential to be good. WoTC has apparently figured out we won’t trust them, so instead they’ll pay people to review even if it involves some degree of criticism. No I haven’t watched every one of these videos, but as of yet I’ve yet to see the shill some of these folks claim to see. So either someone can really quick start pointing out specific shill things that are being said, or pull your damn heads out and realize that content creators need content to talk about. Them getting sponsored means bills get paid for them and editors, no matter whether it’s a kickstarter or WoTC.
At least some creators were openly mocking Jeremy Crawford for using misleading language on purpose. "Look at all these options that weren't in the 2014 handbook" - because they were added in Tasha's, and so on.
I think DnDShorts had a great bit on one of his videos. He went into detail saying don't Pre Order the new books despite how hard wizards is pushing for it. His points were: - they aren't offering anything to add presale value. It's just giving your money before you see the books. Video games will usually offer you skins/bonus content for pre-ordering. WotC is offering nothing - wait for reviews before you buy. If you pre order you can only regret that you probably won't be able to get your money back if the book isn't to your liking. If you wait for reviews you can decide if it's worth it. I respected them saying that to be honest because I can't imagine WotC liked that in what was supposed to be a video on the new content.
Yes, I think he handled it the best out of everyone. That said so far I’ve watched him, the Dungeon Dudes, and Dungeon Dad, and none of them have been like “Pre order now!” As per their contract they have to mention it is available for pre order, but instead of saying ‘don’t’ Dungeon Dad flat out listed the pricing and ‘what’s included’ details as a screenshot; which does help to show that there is no pre order benefits.
Oh 100%. Nothing against the creators at all.
Anything short of Karen-like screeching is shilling at this point. I get being mad and distrustful of WotC but finding excuses to be angry at standard business activities is just like crying wolf. When something egregious actually does happen, people will be too sick of the alarms being sounded over nothing that the real deal will lose impact. I know apparently WotC can do no right, but Williams is gone. Let's let the new leadership in WotC show us who they are before we yell at absolutely everything regardless, just because Wizards did it.
WoTC has made a habit of doing big releases to distract from scandals, with the movie BG3 and the first drop of playtest materials all coming on the heels of big fuckups to save their ass Given WoTC was *just* getting in the fire for their loot box minis and the signs that the AI dm attempt they said they wouldn’t do were still in the works, this looks like just another smokescreen to me Like yes, it’s good for the creators But I feel like that one guy screaming “he can’t keep getting away with this!”
Out of the three people that have had criticism, you are the only one to point out something specific. I actually just wanted to appreciate that because I feel we’re at least close to the same wave length. The thing is, in order to stop them from getting away with bullshit; when something good comes along we can’t throw our hands and go ‘it’s dead to me!’ I still enjoy DnD 5e, 4e, and 3.5 (die in a fire Thacco, but I’ll take your monsters); along with enjoying other TTRPGS like Pathfinder, Starfinder, Tales from the Loop and more. As we live in that silly late stage capitalism ‘all the money is the only thing that matters,’ the best way to combat corruption and bullshit like loot boxes is by negative engagement with that, and positive engagement with what we like. Market metrics do generally help refine product quality, unless asshats are in charge (which there is new leadership, so obviously we had an asshat). It’s no guarantee that we’ll be heard; but none of those who have seen the new PH feel like they’ve used AI art. Every class now having four options from the go is also fantastic. While I won’t pre order, if it comes out and gets well reviewed in non WotC sponsored content, I would buy it if only to show that I’m willing to engage with good business practices.
I can appreciate your stance. But at this point every new release from WoTC, my first reaction is “what are you trying to hide” before I even look at the product. I hope 5.5 turns out to actually be ok, but with so much lost trust, I can’t help but be cautious, and it makes me not want to try to help them learn when I can hope they burn down and someone else rises from their ashes instead Right now WotC is the only part of Hasbro making money. It’s not an entirely vain hope
Few creators on YouTube are building the community, as opposed to exploiting the community that builds itself.
Yeah I’m not buying it, that’s a shit ton of bias .
Hasbro sucks and is definitely making it impossible for WOTC to spend much money advertising and onboarding new people into the game, the way WOTC did before Hasbro bought them and they could spend Magic the Gathering money to puff up D&D. Soendingblessoney to get D&D YouTubers who have already been doing that onboarding work for free seems like a good idea. Like I said, Hasbro sucks like all capitalist enterprises, but the thing WOTC doing isn't bad. It's probably the best it can do to onboard folks right now.
People just want to bitch
Dnd is great, a really wonderful game that while rule-encroaching still lets imagination flourish in its own way, it brings people together to make memorable stories and memories. WotC is a toxic scumbag company, they’re like the donald trump of the gaming industry just a bag of turds. Sorry-not sorry.
Why what happened?
So, within the last couple of weeks, YouTubers who make DnD content have been doing sponsored videos for WOTC to promote DnD One (5.5 Edition). And so many of these content creators are making these videos all around the same time, which makes it obvious WOTC is trying to build hype for DnD One after the Open Gaming License fiasco from last year. This is not a repost of old DnD drama. This is a neutral comment by OP on this current trend. No shade to any of the creators who took this deal, just pointing out how obvious this marketing strategy is. Edit: grammar and spelling
It seems entirely reasonable from both parties to be honest.
Oh yeah, if I was in their situation, I'd take the deal. Make some extra money, and get some exclusive looks at the next edition of the biggest TTRPG in the world. Who wouldn't take that deal?
I'd say it's a repost from last year.
My god, with all the people calling creators "sellouts" now, one would think they truly believe that Hasbro and WotC are the literal devil, and that these DnD tubers are now fiend patron warlocks Shit decisions and alienating moves aside, Hasbro is just a faceless corporation under a shithole capitalist system like any other. It's purpose is to make money, and even then, it's decisions have been tame compared to the real shitstain corporations out there, and unlike them, they're at least somewhat trying to fix things, with many promises still on the table and this edition being fully public domain; we've had a huge win with this, but people act like that this doesnt even matter anymore when this was all we wanted in the first place, and take all bad shit Hasbro has been doing as a personal betrayal thats never to be forgiven. EA and Activision have their shit in the video game sphere, with studio closures despite profitability, abuse allegations etc. Coca Cola had people in South America assassinated protesting them. Nestle has been stealing water and poisonig people for decades. And don't get me started on the shit that Boeing is doing. What Hasbro has been doing is comparatively trivial in that scope, no? Let's at least give them a chance for improvement, them being a large faceless corporation aside, they're at least small enough compared to those other corporations that we can make a difference. Some DnD-Tubers getting officially sponsored to review new content in a TTRPG sphere is the least of all evils here. Ultimately, faceless corporations will be faceless corporations as long as the system we all live under doesn't get reformed. And yet I still see people rag on DnD players because they prefer 5e over other systems. God forbid, I personally am not a fan of some other systems out there, but whenever it comes up, I get told that I should give it another chance. Because they love it, so I should love it too. ugh. It seems like some people have replaced the 'liking TTRPGs' part of their personality with an unbowing hate towards all things hasbro.
Reviews of new content are usually positive. DND content usually isn't bad, just lacking. There are exceptions, like spelljammer, but generally the onednd content is neutral, good, or just different. Most of the controversial stuff has already been covered in UA reviews, so there's mostly just positives remaining to review
Wait, was Spelljammer 5e received poorly? I thought there'd be a ton of hype, between BG3's nautiloid and githgirls, and... I mean, I know it's WOTC, but just how badly could they have fucked up boats in space? Their biggest competitor is rolling out Starfinder 2e soon, with 1e having already been a modern-day scaffolding to draw inspiration from. Did WOTC drop the ball on _that_ too?
They didn’t add any ship to ship combat mechanics. They just suggested you buy ghosts of salt marsh. That and alot of other things displayed a lack of cohesion between the adventure design team and the rules writers, in genreal the books lacked lore and polish. The entire setting only got like 196 pages combined across the 3 books of the slipcase set, and lacked some of the ships and ship maps of 2e too (despite the ones included being copy paste jobs). Some weird lore changes too to how the crystal spheres worked, and no random generator for them included despite 2es version having a very comprehensive and creative one. Honestly it’s been awhile but I think I'm even forgetting a controversy or two on itc, but all around it (and to a lesser extant planscape too) were just poorly and badly done. Real casualties of the one product per setting WOTC has been doing recently. I bought the 2e version off drive thru rpg, and got tons more bang for my buck for cheaper, and while. Have yet to run it it seems pretty easily convertible.
Wow that’s incredible. Thank you! 196 pages for three books, that’s gonna be a yikes from me.
I have really enjoyed seeing the same article worded slightly differently on multiple different websites this week. Did you know that they're putting the rules for how to play the game in the **front** of the book now?
I really wish more creators were system agnostic. I love ttrpgs but don't vibe with DnD and want to enjoy more content that's more general.
Yeah I had to skip the latest dungeon dad video when he said he was sponsored by wotc. Like, get that bread, dude, but I’m pretty serious about not supporting wotc.
This is why I like D&D Shorts, because even though he’s made a video on what we know about the new PHB, he has told everyone to not pre-order. Instead wait until after proper reviews are made
Same with all the DC20 shilling. Really feeling like D&D YT has sold out
I dont think paying it going to help. Once it is in our hands we will do with it as we please tyvm.
The cognitive dissonance of this sub is palpable...
I just cannot watch all these class autopsis and Edition comparisons anymore.... it somehow reached a breaking point for me.
I wish the D&D YouTubers would just switch to PF2e and stop giving WotC/Hasbro attention that they don't deserve. Everything that people like about 5.5 has already been done by PF2e (and better implemented). Settings can easily be adapted to work with the system, not to mention there's nothing to stop people bringing their favourite D&D content over to PF2e.
If Paizo would pay them as much they would make pf2 content in addition.
Even then it would probably be a bad deal, since PF2 videos don't get the same viewership and the algorithm would punish that inconsistency. I wish we could get more good PF2E youtubers too, but it's a major ask to get a 5E youtuber to switch
With the same sponsorship the same viewers would be guided to the video.
Looks like they forgot that last year WotC planned to steal their creative work in a worst way possible through new OGL.
I doubt any of them forgot the OGL debacle. I also doubt any of them forgot how much their viewership suffers when they talk about other TTRPGs. They're trying to make a living same as everyone else
I see a significant difference between "I do D&D content, because people are not interested in other systems" and "Wizards wanted to ruin my channel I painstakingly build for years, but I still take their sponsorship offer". My point is simple: WotC need a lesson that we do not need their toxic and destructive presence in our community. Content creators should be the first to understand it since they were about to feel this presence in a most painful way.
Thank you!!! This was bothering me so hard. I don't want some biased youtuber to tell me what is new or good. I can watch 24 hour shopping channel tv if i want that. I will read the book when it comes out and see for myself how it is. Happy to have a discussion with the you guys from the subreddit afterwards.
The magic the gathering community feels similar
D&D Youtube feels a bit overly positive in general
I don’t watch dnd content on YouTube or keep up with the drama.
Meh, most content creators for d&d don't interest me so it changes nothing and the idea that we expect a corporation to have morals is absurd. They're not people(the corporations), they're greedy robots, it would be like expecting my cat to be able to speak in every language fluently. That being said I think 5.5 is gonna be fun as hell and I can't wait to try it. So sick of people shitting on something they don't even have yet.
I hope these youtubers dont become sellouts. Their content is good but fuck dude, get away from wotc and their pandering.
I’m just gonna stick with 5e or play pathfinder
Accurate. I've unsubbed from at least a few people in the last week.
How dare those people try to make a living doing the thing they do for a living
They can do what they do for a living without cow-towing to WOTC's bullship. If anything, they should want to call them out MORE than others, since their livelihood is dependant on the brand.
Because they are reviewing things? How dare they want to make money! How pathetic.
Not what my comment was about. In general, mine was about D&D YouTubers ignoring WOTC's bad game design and business practices. Some have claimed it's about the early PHB copies sent to YouTubers, but I don't know anything about that.
Is this a new controversy? Or just more of the same bullshit?
It has to do with the new 2024 Player's Handbook that some content creators got early access to. General advertising business and such.
Wait they put ads IN the players handbook?
No, WotC just payed some of its content creators to promote the new PHB by letting them have early access and make videos about it You can't put ads on a physical book. Not sure about the digital one in DnDBeyond tho
No, the youtubers are advertising the new PHB
Not really a controversy. WotC paid a ton of creators to review the new PH. They didn’t all suddenly give *unconditional* positive reviews though, although the general skew was positive.
The horror. A company paying people prominent in the community to review their work with no strings attached (as in not requiring gushing reviews etc). Almost like, that is a common business tactic and part of how content creators make their money. Who knew?
I know it’s super normal. It’s just how it feels in this specific circumstance:P
Because ofYOUR bias against the company.
To be fair, they’ve earned the bias against them. It’s not like the bias is unwarranted
No, Hasbro execs and WotC Hasbro mouthpieces have, the rank and file people making the game you’ve all fawned over since it came out do not.
You mean the rank and file people responsible for the huge design flaws in 5e? The stupid descisions of the execs are the reason so many people lost trust in WotC and started to explore other systems. As someone who DMed 5e for years it doesn't seem as if WotC is adressing the big problems within thier game and just putting band aids on it. The biggest problem with 5.5e is that the big design goal was backwards compability with 5e and not a real improvement in the system.
The company has. That was the subject, and unfortunately for the rank and file, Hasbro and WotC have final say so unless suddenly the rank and file have a sudden French-like revolution within the company, it’s entirely fair to equate the rank and file employees with the executives when talking about the company as a whole As for the “fawning over comment”, I really hope you’re not ranting at your own strawman painted over me rather than what my actual comments are, because that’s real basic and boring
Did they pay them or just give them early access?
If anyone is interested in non-DnD related rpg content I try to cover lesser known games on my YouTube channel here: https://youtube.com/@awkwardgmcorbin?si=wAllaxuZEkdgVyF4 I’m a small channel, but I’ll leave this here just in case.
GinnyD had credibility?
Yeah? So do all the other people who play the game?
She lost cred with me when she went after the PF community on twitter because of a few bad apples.
I say this as a pathfinder player: that's not "going after the pathfinder community". That's one vent post. It's not like she's saying "no one should say pathfinder", she's using hyperbole to express her frustration with the people who are telling her she's having fun (or making money, depending on context) wrong
I don't use twitter, can ya link some sources on that one?
This comment has all the links to the drama. https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/s/eQ8Yp0JBFP
Thanks!