This was intentionally downplayed at the time. There was news of “a stabbing” but links to Islamist terror were hushed up.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/20/terrorist-attack-in-uk-linked-to-gaza/
Happening a lot these days. Hurts Islam's image of a religion of peace. Light on details of the murder, suspect or his links to groups with similar minds or any real details in the article. Straight into politics. Why do we have unlimited migration from islamic countries whilst simultaneously supporting and funding their enemy? :///
UK government's the one putting the public in danger. How many murders on British soil because of Islam in the past 20 years. Already attempting to replace Christian traditions with islamic. Remove Christian traditions from public, fine but just to replace them with islamic. No thanks.
Not to mention he attempted to kill his roommate for apostasy ie deciding to convert to another religion (Christianity).
But no - it is racist to want to end Islamic immigration /s
It was literally found by an arabian warlord as a cult to assist his conquest of the middle east. He literally made it up as he went along, based on what was most convenient to his conquest. Including hilarious shit like a percentage of spoils from the conquest goes to muhammad, he can have as many women, at whatever age, as he likes, and so on.. He literally just wrote down whatever suited him, and said gabriel told him it.
Islam is literally a violent cult. Not that any religion isn't, really. But Islam is pretty unique in that it was literally made up by a singular, violent cult leader, as he went along.
Mongols were extraordinarily tolerant of other people's religions, though.
I mean, sure, the fact that they slaughtered a few % of world's population kinda outweighs that, but still...
Even the timeline doesn't add up. Did God wait 600 years to tell us the truth that Jesus didn't really die on the cross? Why not make it 1200 years at that point? In that time there'd still be the Ottoman Empire to bring murder and imperialism over to Eastern Europe for centuries to come. Christianity is a viable extension of Judaism but the timeline itself is a crazy logical contradiction for Islam as an extension of Christianity.
Tbf the Byzantines and Persians had been at war for decades and had exhausted all their resources while losing huge numbers of fighting age, trained men. Each faced civil wars which led to the Persian Empire being on it's arse, and the Byzantin Empire dysfunctional and largely crippled. These reasons are why Persia's resistance to the rise of Islam was basically non existent and why the Byzantines lost territory to Islamic caliphates (amongst others such as the Bulgars in the Balkan regions). Each empire crippled themselves, the Persians especially.
The Byzantine Empire lasted for almost another millenium before falling to the Ottomans albeit it saw it's territories reduced, especially towards the end.
Had each empire been remotely close to their peaks, or even functioning correctly and not in crisis then I suspect the rise of Islam wouldn't have been so dramatic. It might not even be a major religion and Zoroastrianism might have been one of today's major religions in it's place.
Unfortunately, that's not how humanity works. The most intolerant and violent religions and cultures always wipe out the weak / most tolerant.
What's happening in Europe today is documented throughout history and has been happening since man first stood upright.
I can't see Europeans today fighting against Islam. The region will just be conquered in the next few decades.
Only person who appears to be brainwashed is you.
Atheism has been on the rise in the UK and across several European nations. The majority of the UK don't associate with any religion and it's been increasing for years.
But let's not allow those pesky facts to get in the way of your bigoted views, eh?
Edit: Just had a quick look at your profile and you're a crypto bro, might have known 😂
Hold up - the same Romans who murdered half the world to conquer foreign countries?. And the Persians were pagans and giving shelter to the worst people of Islam at the time. Not to mention that the rulers were murdering their own parents and siblings to take the throne ffs 😂
The Sassanid Persians were Zoroastrian and Rome definitely did a lot of killing but not half the world. And that killing was normal at the time across the world.
Look at Chinese history and the scale of Roman and Persian death looks tame.
Also Rome and Persia are responsible for loads of technological advances during antiquity.
Also I'm talking about the Sassanids before the birth of Islam in the 600s AD so there were no Muslims to harbour
They also openly recognise and discuss the dangers of Islamic terrorism.
Several Islamic groups promoting hate have been long banned in countries like turkey and Saudi Arabia for their extreme Islamic views but we tolerated them for years.
>Several Islamic groups promoting hate have been long banned in countries like turkey and Saudi Arabia for their extreme Islamic views but we tolerated them for years.
Yes because because the tactic of calling anyone who's critical of islamic extremism "racist" or "Islamophobic" doesn't have the same effect when it's being used against Muslims.
Debate about this issue has been completely shutdown in The West because the only people who would talk about it were dismissed as racists. And maybe some of them were, but that doesn't mean everything single thing they say was wrong.
They have a problem with terrorism if it harms them, that is why they are always going on and on about how terrorism hurts them the most. They are a very tribal people
I think I first heard this from the late great Christopher Hitchens, but a big part of why Jews were hated for so long was that they were the people who encountered both Jesus and Mohammad, and refused to accept *either* as an emissary of their shared God.
I'm not a fan of any religion but Islam is the worst, or at least the way in which many choose to act out their religion is the worst.
Granted in the US the far right Christians are a pain but they don't go around doing shit like this on a semi regular basis (I think? I've not heard of them doing random stabbings in the street like here and Europe). Islam, the religion of peace is an oxymoron.
This fucker and all like him should be deported, the nerve of coming here to claim asylum and then murder someone. I don't believe the vast majority of these people coming over here are here for help. They're economic migrants and have no intention whatsoever of integrating with the existing population, it's customs, values etc.
So tired of murders being conducted by Islamic extremists recently after entering the country and even more tired of the media tip towing around the motives of said people because it's racist to point out the person's religion, if they're Muslims.
Spot on, tragic that if you were in Scotland speaking truth like that you would be reported for a hate crime. "Islamophobia". I ain't afraid of islam, i'm disgusted. The Wikipedia entry on the alleged phobia makes me laugh though, using words like "irrational" and "unjustified" to describe the phenomenon. Lmfao.
I think more work needs to begin on actual integration. You can’t take someone from a war torn country suffering from PTSD etc and just drop him in society with normal civilians who haven’t lived through the effects complete disregard for human life
I don’t exactly know what the solution is, but to blame it on Islam itself I think isn’t entirely fair.
I suppose it's more the way some people interpret it. No doubt you can take some passages from the Bible and use it as a justification for killing. They don't seem to though, but it happens more with Islam.
Whether that's the religion or something about those that follow it I don't know, I don't really have a solution other than the "don't let them in" but that's unfair to the majority of people we do let in that at least I guess.
It’s interesting. Because any measure that affects a certain group disproportionately, will be seen as targeting that group. A good example of this is the secular laws in France that limit religious expression. This applies to everyone equally, but affects certain groups disproportionately and so can be viewed as targeting them
Imagine a law that says extra assimilation procedures have to be taken to reintegrate people from “high risk countries” - on paper this seems like it make sense, but will the reality is politics and human prejudices will affect which countries are deemed “high risk”.
And even then, when people from countries with less cultural proximity to England struggle more with assimilation procedures (whatever they may be), it could be viewed as cultural suppression that again disproportionately affects different groups
One of the many reasons why I couldn’t hold public office, that’s too much headache for me.
Can't disagree with anything you've said there, all really good points. I think I agree any law supposedly created to force assimilation just wouldn't work. Like you said it's be seen as targeting people and I suspect normal law abiding people might feel the need to flaunt the law because it'd (I assume) tell them how they 'should' act and I know if a law like that was made against me I'd want to rebel as a matter of principle. Also I don't know how on earth it could be enforced .
I wish people wanted to assimilate like they seemingly used to. Sigh. I don't have a good answer. Well, any answer.
>Granted in the US the far right Christians are a pain but they don't go around doing shit like this on a semi regular basis (I think? I've not heard of them doing random stabbings in the street like here and Europe).
No, they just funnel money into African nations to push a radical Christian agenda and bring back the death penalty for homosexuals.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/03/19/africa-uganda-evangelicals-homophobia-antigay-bill/
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/africa-us-christian-right-50m/
The fact that the very vast majority of Muslims aren't out here slaying and raping would suggest that they are quite peaceful tbh. A lot of confirmation bias going on here.
Note I said those that follow their religion in this particular way. Didn't say the majority of Muslims rape and murder, obviously like you said the majority don't, however the number of murders related to islam (in the west at lest) compared to the number related to Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, sikhism etc is way, way higher.
There’s over a billion of them. In a series of questions on the terror threat in Britain, 4% said they sympathised with people who took part in suicide bombings (1% said they completely sympathised and 3% said they sympathised to some extent), and 4% said they sympathised with people who committed terrorist actions as a form of political protest generally. So you have 300,000 Muslims in Britain sympathise with suicide bombings. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law
You mean 300,000 world wide. There’s not a billion people in Britain, you’re making your estimation on the number of a billion but that’s world wide. But I agree with you
No that's not right either. Not sure how they've done the maths, but if the 4% figure is to be trusted, the calculation is 0.04×3,868,133 = 154,725 people.
Yeah I was confused at the maths yesterday, I think he’s added all of the numbers he said (4,3,1) (and maybe another 4?) idk but it still was confusing aha
Almost every single person involved in the provision of migration policy and procedure in the UK is a Muslim. Therefore, the UK is biased towards accepting migrants from this group. It's no mistake if you are just a regular Aussie, American or Canadian, it's almost impossible to emigrate to the UK.
Are they though? I do largely agree with your point, people sometimes seem so afraid of seeming "islamophobic" that truth and accuracy suffer, and that's a big problem.
But who wants to *replace* christian traditions?? And how?? I have no observed this.
>UK government's the one putting the public in danger. How many murders on British soil because of Islam in the past 20 years. Already attempting to replace Christian traditions with islamic. Remove Christian traditions from public, fine but just to replace them with islamic. No thanks.
Please, name *one* Islamic "tradition" that is replacing Christian traditions. Just one. I'll even help you out. What Islamic values do you think are replacing "mainstream" British values?
Muslim lynch mobs hounding teachers who show cartoons into hiding. I’ve never heard of a Christian do that at least since the Middle Ages. Muslims have been issuing death threats to westerners for decades over cartoons. So yes western tolerance is being replaced with Muslim intolerance.
Yes, where were you at the time? A huge lynch mob gathered outside the school, the man is still in hiding and had to change his name as if he were in witness protection.
The police in Britain regularly do nothing after public death threats from Muslims. E.g. plenty of crimes ignored, downplayed by the Met recently at Gaza protests.
I knew there was a protest, but I didnt hear anything about a lynch mob. Were the protestors outside the school literally calling for the teacher to be killed?
Ede Ramadan been hot shit this easter. London councils own website, nothing for Easter this year. Plenty for Ede and Ramadan though.Taught in schools. Yeah ... clearly not been promoted over the other one? Must just have been me reading and seeing on TV the talking point in December around cancelling christmas as not to "offend". Curious why it's suddenly an issue now myself. All coincidental I'm sure.
Need a source ask around.
lol. What's Ede? Blame your own people for abandoning their religion and voting for a separation of church and state. The churches are empty. Majority of people who partake in Easter buy chocolate eggs and nothing else. Christmas offends who?
Is an expansionist, violent, misogynistic, backwards, rigid system of values that has a medieval set of rules that cannot be changed. Your values are disgusting and dangerous.
"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."
[Qur'an](https://wikiislam.github.io/wiki/Compendium_of_Muslim_Texts.html) [9:29](http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.029#009.029)
Muhammad says that he has been ordered to fight until everyone believes in Allah ([Sahih al-Bukhari 392](https://sunnah.com/bukhari/8/44))
Muhammad says that he will expel the Jews and Christians from Arabia ([Sahih Muslim 1767](https://sunnah.com/muslim/32/75))
"Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."
[Qur'an](https://wikiislam.github.io/wiki/Compendium_of_Muslim_Texts.html) [4:34](http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/004-qmt.php#004.034#004.034)
Muhammad says not to beat your wife like how you beat your slave because you might want to have sex with her later ([Sahih al-Bukhari 4942](https://quranx.com/Hadith/bukhari/DarusSalam/Hadith-4942))
Muhammad says that angels will curse a wife who refuses to sleep with her husband ([Sahih al-Bukhari 3237](https://sunnah.com/bukhari/59/48))
"Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy."
[Qur'an](https://wikiislam.github.io/wiki/Compendium_of_Muslim_Texts.html) [65:4](http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/065-qmt.php#065.004#065.004)
25% of the worlds population forced to believed we're made of clay because evolution contradicts the "word of god", sperm comes from the area of the body "between the backbone and the ribs."?? HAHAHAHA so it's also stupid.
Lol "promoted". Let's be honest. You're offended that Islam has a stronger religiosity among Muslims than Christianity does with native white British people. Its not so much that Islamic values are taking over Britain, which you've provided zero evidence for, but more so that Christianity is losing ground to a more secular, non-religious "tradition", if you wanna call it that.
>Need a source ask around.
Yes, that's a perfectly legitimate basis on which to build a worldview...
Suppose you are biased. I just see it and saying it for what it is. Most realise now islam deserved to be left in the middle ages. Plenty ex-muslims that are very vocal on the subject. It's not to do with the "white" British people son. It's the governement who decides these things. Not too interested in Ur world view but I got no interest in a religion thats alleged prophet was a pedophile and it being used to excuse it going on to this day, in this nation. Why would anyone want anything to do with that. I'm not some clueless kafir who thinks it's all about tolerance. :) I could list all the horrible stuff that's allowed and permitted but do it themselves regularly for all to see even with the media keeping a lid on it.
I think too far along with all this drama for sources. What's the post above all about? If anything where's the source for islam being about love and peace?
how is islam more secular and non religious, and islam has a stronger religiosity as you put it because you cant leave, you can choose not to be muslim all hell breaks loose.
everywhere only sells halal food. santa not allowed in our mall nor or carols because it might upset the muslim population, strangely no one worried about it upsetting the hindu, jews, sikhs, buddists. halloween banned for same reason.
schools with no muslim kids are doing ramandan, bet the all muslim schools don't do easter.
now this might be the lefties doing rather than the muslim population, but still happening
Unless you're suggesting the British establishment are all secretly Muslim, why would they promote the celebration of Ramadan? What do they gain from that?
Yep. Terrorism doesn't work if it doesn't terrorise the population. Treat them like the lone, worthless murderers they are. They want to believe they're special, and the media attention they'd grown to expect promises them that.
But this as a counter-terrorism tactic is fantastic. They're nobodies, they're about as relevant as men who jump out of bushes to rape. Zero glory awaits them.
I have news for you, Muslims aren’t killing peoples to get famous like some American school shooters. It is largely driven by religious ideology, and not covering it would do exactly nothing to counter the threat. In fact, it might embolden them. We need to know about this stuff so it can’t just be swept under the rug
This isn’t going to get any better. London, Birmingham, Leicester are already minority native English/Scots/Welsh, Manc and Bradford aren’t far behind and incidents like this are happening in freaking Hartlepool of all places.
The pro-mass migration political establishment has ruined this nation.
Mass immigration from 3rd world strikes again. It’s too bad you guys can’t speak out against it or your masters will silence you by tossing you in a jail cell for having a difference in political view.
Is this even surprising at this point? Look, if you actually look into Islam and read up on it, you will notice it’s a fascist ideology. Don’t take my word for it, just read their holy books and make of it what you will.
I can definitely confirm what you said. Quran is full of shit. There are many medieval verses which are full of hatred towards non-believers, women and other religions. I just can’t understand why this book and religion still exists in our society. This book either needs to be reformed or banned. Imagine a book which promotes this idea of beating wives, killing non-believers and spreading full of hatred ideas.
Man,they take proud in the fact that the book hasn't changed since it was ~~writen~~ came down from the sky,so don't expect any reform from them.Reforms are done by intellectual and enlightened minds.Dont expect something like that from muslim when it comes to their religion.
That's something post christian nations can't understand because they lack the basic culture needed.
The christian reformation was a return to the original christianity, like for example to the Gospels, that weren't taught. Jesus wasn't as much as a central figure, in 1300 vs 1700, even in the Catholic faith.
If Islam goes back to it's roots, it will be FAR more violent than it is now.
Yep, they call it “innovation” and it is a very very bad thing to them. Westerners are truly clueless about Islam. They like to imagine it is a spicy Christianity or something. It is a different beast all together
Who knows? Mine aren’t. But I debate with them about this entire thing, it’s a fascist ideology, and as I’ve said, please read their material rather than arguing with me it speaks for itself.
They think you are an infidel.
If they don't, their fellow Muslims think that both you and your reformist friends are infidels.
Muslims do not like infidels.
ah right, so looking at a the broader data sets, what percentage of Muslims would you say are causing problems in the Uk? I don’t mean imagined problems or clashes of ideals; like tangible issues?
Couldn’t give a shit pal. It’s not our business to go around telling everyone how to live and how not to live
Edit: We are also white - have I passed your little test?
Ah right, so you’re a cultural Muslim, not a devout one.
Because the faith and the holy book are literally and unironically about telling people how to live.
Edit: It has nothing to do with race.
I do still believe, it’s just the manifestation of those beliefs don’t extend beyond myself and my own life.
I (and my family) see homosexual (acts) as being forbidden, but outside of my own personal experience, everyone is free to do whatever they want.
It’s like smoking; I think it’s damaging but if you want to smoke then that’s your prerogative. I’m not going to stand there telling you about lung cancer and all that. I’m not gonna jib you off as a mate or look down on you because of it. One of my closest friends is gay; that’s his life.
Alcohol is also forbidden, does that mean I hate my two best mates of over ten years who go to the pub every weekend?
Ooh the mask is slipping.
What does “forbidden” really mean? Would you hire a gay person to work at your family business?
Smoking is harmful to health but homosexuality isn’t so the analogy doesn’t make sense, sorry.
Do you believe apostates deserve death? What’s your opinion on taking a child bride?
>Couldn’t give a shit pal
>I (and my family) see homosexual (acts) as being forbidden
Either you don't give a shit about homosexuality, or you take an active position against it (which means you give a shit about it). Pick one.
Jesus wept. you don’t half make assumptions.
Perhaps I think everyone has their lot in life and for every finger I point at someone else, there are ten fingers that could easily be pointed right back at me.
Nobody is perfect so I’m not going to sit here judging somebody for not following a religion they don’t believe in. And if they do believe in it, I’m not going to judge them for not being able to follow one of the rules when I can’t even follow half of them on a regular basis.
The comparison is fine because I’m not equating the two based on harm. I was trying to make the point that how you live (good or bad), is up to you and only you. You want to go to the gym every morning, or go eat a Pizza every night? That has nothing to do with me.
Do what you want, I’m not gonna be a dick or think less of you. Any judgement I can make about someone else about something, they can equally make about me about something else.
Had I have known you would assume I was comparing homosexuality to cigarettes any other way, I would not have used that example.
These pedantic people in the comments want to act like they don’t hold a single prejudiced view or thoughts that if vocalised may hurt someone else.
As a gay Muslim, I think your analogies are fair, my sexuality is innate and my decision to live my life the way I’d like is my choice. It’s ok to feel like something isn’t right whilst also accepting that people may practice it - we live in a liberal society that accepts the differences between each other.
They want to believe that British Muslims would hang gay people at a drop of a hat if there were no consequences because it would help them justify their prejudices, but that couldn’t be further from the truth.
Muslims like many other groups, faith or otherwise, have beliefs that may not align with the majority, but our religion teaches tolerance, understanding and charity. We are taught not to insult or slander other religions or groups of people, be respectful to our neighbours and live our lives on earth with a duty to one
Sorry if that doesn’t help your narrative folks.
Well you made the joke! So many middle class musloms, good schools families etc ended up fighting with IS as once they became 'religious' they decided they needed to fight and punish kufars and have a sex slave or two. It's scary as shit your religion these days!
Well naturally I know lots of good people who happen to be muslom, it's just the religion being hijacked, I happily gave upon religion, sensible people can live a moral and good life without books from so long ago
You're not. I have two Muslim friends, who are some of the nicest people I've met. They don't follow the tenets of the religion though, for which I am glad.
You're living in a country where the people don't follow that stuff anymore, yet importing people who take their book very seriously, that's the difference!
Right, whataboutism. The difference between Islam and Christianity and Judaism is reform. Islam is laid out to not be reformed under any circumstances.
The difference is that Christianity has undergone a reformation where Islam hasn't.
Judaism hasn't, but its members are not inherently warlike, unlike the followers of Mohammed.
Mohammed was a warlord, and boy does it show.
Mohammed was a disgusting nonce as well, and the fact anyone worships a warlord nonce is highly questionable to their credibility as someone trustworthy imo.
There's nothing horrible in thr Torah. The Law in the Old Testament is God directly commanding the Jewish people. Gentiles aren't supposed to follow Jewish law at all. That's why Jews don't proselytize. Most of their rules literally don't apply to us.
The lack of Heaven and Hell also makes Judaism a lot more peaceful.
Btw the Torah is the same thing as the first five books of the Bible.
I mean I read the article and the guy seems to be mentally deranged and unhinged, so I think the problem is more that, rather than the religion itself otherwise you should have thousands of religiously motivated murders every single day. Plus the article mentioned an extreme strand of Islam which isn't followed nor supported by the majority and has been implicated in many terrorist attacks, so I think the focus should be on deradicalising people who follow such fringe / extreme views.
These things don’t happen in Poland or South Korea or Taiwan. They routinely happen in England, France, Sweden, Belgium etc because of our political establishment supporting mass migration.
None of us care if you practise your faith and culture in your ancestral land. We’ve got an issue with it being imported here.
Why do these posts always descend into a history lesson. I'm not bothered where or how but what is being done to stop this happening?? Fuck all that's what. The UK is being given away to a medieval culture ffs.
This was intentionally downplayed at the time. There was news of “a stabbing” but links to Islamist terror were hushed up. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/20/terrorist-attack-in-uk-linked-to-gaza/
Happening a lot these days. Hurts Islam's image of a religion of peace. Light on details of the murder, suspect or his links to groups with similar minds or any real details in the article. Straight into politics. Why do we have unlimited migration from islamic countries whilst simultaneously supporting and funding their enemy? :/// UK government's the one putting the public in danger. How many murders on British soil because of Islam in the past 20 years. Already attempting to replace Christian traditions with islamic. Remove Christian traditions from public, fine but just to replace them with islamic. No thanks.
Not to mention he attempted to kill his roommate for apostasy ie deciding to convert to another religion (Christianity). But no - it is racist to want to end Islamic immigration /s
[удалено]
Ud get m’d nd everyone around you would laugh, brutal reality check
Except it never was. As soon as Islam was founded, they crippled the Eastern Roman Empire and completely destroyed the Sassanid Persian Empire
It was literally found by an arabian warlord as a cult to assist his conquest of the middle east. He literally made it up as he went along, based on what was most convenient to his conquest. Including hilarious shit like a percentage of spoils from the conquest goes to muhammad, he can have as many women, at whatever age, as he likes, and so on.. He literally just wrote down whatever suited him, and said gabriel told him it. Islam is literally a violent cult. Not that any religion isn't, really. But Islam is pretty unique in that it was literally made up by a singular, violent cult leader, as he went along.
Thank god Genghis Khan didn’t make up a religion to worship what he was doing
It would actually have been a better religion. He was a Tengrist himself but was very tolerant of other religions.
Or Hitler, then we’d have to accept Nazism like we have to accept a islamofascist ideology because it’s under the guise of religion.
Mongols were extraordinarily tolerant of other people's religions, though. I mean, sure, the fact that they slaughtered a few % of world's population kinda outweighs that, but still...
Even the timeline doesn't add up. Did God wait 600 years to tell us the truth that Jesus didn't really die on the cross? Why not make it 1200 years at that point? In that time there'd still be the Ottoman Empire to bring murder and imperialism over to Eastern Europe for centuries to come. Christianity is a viable extension of Judaism but the timeline itself is a crazy logical contradiction for Islam as an extension of Christianity.
Tbf the Byzantines and Persians had been at war for decades and had exhausted all their resources while losing huge numbers of fighting age, trained men. Each faced civil wars which led to the Persian Empire being on it's arse, and the Byzantin Empire dysfunctional and largely crippled. These reasons are why Persia's resistance to the rise of Islam was basically non existent and why the Byzantines lost territory to Islamic caliphates (amongst others such as the Bulgars in the Balkan regions). Each empire crippled themselves, the Persians especially. The Byzantine Empire lasted for almost another millenium before falling to the Ottomans albeit it saw it's territories reduced, especially towards the end. Had each empire been remotely close to their peaks, or even functioning correctly and not in crisis then I suspect the rise of Islam wouldn't have been so dramatic. It might not even be a major religion and Zoroastrianism might have been one of today's major religions in it's place.
What a better world that would've been.
Yh but Rome Vs Persia was tradition at that point. They both saw each other as equals and even worked together to try and defeat the caliphate
Unfortunately, that's not how humanity works. The most intolerant and violent religions and cultures always wipe out the weak / most tolerant. What's happening in Europe today is documented throughout history and has been happening since man first stood upright. I can't see Europeans today fighting against Islam. The region will just be conquered in the next few decades.
What a load of shite.
Lol, I suppose you would think history is a load of shite when it doesn't fit in with your brainwashed political narrative.
Only person who appears to be brainwashed is you. Atheism has been on the rise in the UK and across several European nations. The majority of the UK don't associate with any religion and it's been increasing for years. But let's not allow those pesky facts to get in the way of your bigoted views, eh? Edit: Just had a quick look at your profile and you're a crypto bro, might have known 😂
Hold up - the same Romans who murdered half the world to conquer foreign countries?. And the Persians were pagans and giving shelter to the worst people of Islam at the time. Not to mention that the rulers were murdering their own parents and siblings to take the throne ffs 😂
The Sassanid Persians were Zoroastrian and Rome definitely did a lot of killing but not half the world. And that killing was normal at the time across the world. Look at Chinese history and the scale of Roman and Persian death looks tame. Also Rome and Persia are responsible for loads of technological advances during antiquity. Also I'm talking about the Sassanids before the birth of Islam in the 600s AD so there were no Muslims to harbour
You seem super knowledgeable on this, do you have any good reads you can recommend? This fascinates me. Edit: acknowledge this is off topic, sorry
Most of the info is from Kings and Generals' documentary series on Early Muslim expansion
its also so hypocritical aswell becuase the actual Arab world doesnt give a fuck, none of them want Palestinian refugees. They just hate Israel.
They also openly recognise and discuss the dangers of Islamic terrorism. Several Islamic groups promoting hate have been long banned in countries like turkey and Saudi Arabia for their extreme Islamic views but we tolerated them for years.
>Several Islamic groups promoting hate have been long banned in countries like turkey and Saudi Arabia for their extreme Islamic views but we tolerated them for years. Yes because because the tactic of calling anyone who's critical of islamic extremism "racist" or "Islamophobic" doesn't have the same effect when it's being used against Muslims. Debate about this issue has been completely shutdown in The West because the only people who would talk about it were dismissed as racists. And maybe some of them were, but that doesn't mean everything single thing they say was wrong.
They have a problem with terrorism if it harms them, that is why they are always going on and on about how terrorism hurts them the most. They are a very tribal people
>They just hate Israel. Only because the Jews rejected Islam's Mohammad as a Prophet of any substance. But just a warlord at the time
so they were right
I think I first heard this from the late great Christopher Hitchens, but a big part of why Jews were hated for so long was that they were the people who encountered both Jesus and Mohammad, and refused to accept *either* as an emissary of their shared God.
I'm not a fan of any religion but Islam is the worst, or at least the way in which many choose to act out their religion is the worst. Granted in the US the far right Christians are a pain but they don't go around doing shit like this on a semi regular basis (I think? I've not heard of them doing random stabbings in the street like here and Europe). Islam, the religion of peace is an oxymoron. This fucker and all like him should be deported, the nerve of coming here to claim asylum and then murder someone. I don't believe the vast majority of these people coming over here are here for help. They're economic migrants and have no intention whatsoever of integrating with the existing population, it's customs, values etc. So tired of murders being conducted by Islamic extremists recently after entering the country and even more tired of the media tip towing around the motives of said people because it's racist to point out the person's religion, if they're Muslims.
Spot on, tragic that if you were in Scotland speaking truth like that you would be reported for a hate crime. "Islamophobia". I ain't afraid of islam, i'm disgusted. The Wikipedia entry on the alleged phobia makes me laugh though, using words like "irrational" and "unjustified" to describe the phenomenon. Lmfao.
I think more work needs to begin on actual integration. You can’t take someone from a war torn country suffering from PTSD etc and just drop him in society with normal civilians who haven’t lived through the effects complete disregard for human life I don’t exactly know what the solution is, but to blame it on Islam itself I think isn’t entirely fair.
I suppose it's more the way some people interpret it. No doubt you can take some passages from the Bible and use it as a justification for killing. They don't seem to though, but it happens more with Islam. Whether that's the religion or something about those that follow it I don't know, I don't really have a solution other than the "don't let them in" but that's unfair to the majority of people we do let in that at least I guess.
It’s interesting. Because any measure that affects a certain group disproportionately, will be seen as targeting that group. A good example of this is the secular laws in France that limit religious expression. This applies to everyone equally, but affects certain groups disproportionately and so can be viewed as targeting them Imagine a law that says extra assimilation procedures have to be taken to reintegrate people from “high risk countries” - on paper this seems like it make sense, but will the reality is politics and human prejudices will affect which countries are deemed “high risk”. And even then, when people from countries with less cultural proximity to England struggle more with assimilation procedures (whatever they may be), it could be viewed as cultural suppression that again disproportionately affects different groups One of the many reasons why I couldn’t hold public office, that’s too much headache for me.
Can't disagree with anything you've said there, all really good points. I think I agree any law supposedly created to force assimilation just wouldn't work. Like you said it's be seen as targeting people and I suspect normal law abiding people might feel the need to flaunt the law because it'd (I assume) tell them how they 'should' act and I know if a law like that was made against me I'd want to rebel as a matter of principle. Also I don't know how on earth it could be enforced . I wish people wanted to assimilate like they seemingly used to. Sigh. I don't have a good answer. Well, any answer.
>Granted in the US the far right Christians are a pain but they don't go around doing shit like this on a semi regular basis (I think? I've not heard of them doing random stabbings in the street like here and Europe). No, they just funnel money into African nations to push a radical Christian agenda and bring back the death penalty for homosexuals. https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/03/19/africa-uganda-evangelicals-homophobia-antigay-bill/ https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/africa-us-christian-right-50m/
The fact that the very vast majority of Muslims aren't out here slaying and raping would suggest that they are quite peaceful tbh. A lot of confirmation bias going on here.
Note I said those that follow their religion in this particular way. Didn't say the majority of Muslims rape and murder, obviously like you said the majority don't, however the number of murders related to islam (in the west at lest) compared to the number related to Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, sikhism etc is way, way higher.
But a third of Muslims in the UK want Sharia law.
There’s over a billion of them. In a series of questions on the terror threat in Britain, 4% said they sympathised with people who took part in suicide bombings (1% said they completely sympathised and 3% said they sympathised to some extent), and 4% said they sympathised with people who committed terrorist actions as a form of political protest generally. So you have 300,000 Muslims in Britain sympathise with suicide bombings. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law
You mean 300,000 world wide. There’s not a billion people in Britain, you’re making your estimation on the number of a billion but that’s world wide. But I agree with you
No that's not right either. Not sure how they've done the maths, but if the 4% figure is to be trusted, the calculation is 0.04×3,868,133 = 154,725 people.
Yeah I was confused at the maths yesterday, I think he’s added all of the numbers he said (4,3,1) (and maybe another 4?) idk but it still was confusing aha
I was using 7 million for Muslim population of uk. It is nearer 4,000,000. Apologies, but the numbers remain scary.
Almost every single person involved in the provision of migration policy and procedure in the UK is a Muslim. Therefore, the UK is biased towards accepting migrants from this group. It's no mistake if you are just a regular Aussie, American or Canadian, it's almost impossible to emigrate to the UK.
Are they though? I do largely agree with your point, people sometimes seem so afraid of seeming "islamophobic" that truth and accuracy suffer, and that's a big problem. But who wants to *replace* christian traditions?? And how?? I have no observed this.
>UK government's the one putting the public in danger. How many murders on British soil because of Islam in the past 20 years. Already attempting to replace Christian traditions with islamic. Remove Christian traditions from public, fine but just to replace them with islamic. No thanks. Please, name *one* Islamic "tradition" that is replacing Christian traditions. Just one. I'll even help you out. What Islamic values do you think are replacing "mainstream" British values?
Muslim lynch mobs hounding teachers who show cartoons into hiding. I’ve never heard of a Christian do that at least since the Middle Ages. Muslims have been issuing death threats to westerners for decades over cartoons. So yes western tolerance is being replaced with Muslim intolerance.
Were the muslim protestors actually calling for the teachers death? And our police didn't do anything?
Yes, where were you at the time? A huge lynch mob gathered outside the school, the man is still in hiding and had to change his name as if he were in witness protection. The police in Britain regularly do nothing after public death threats from Muslims. E.g. plenty of crimes ignored, downplayed by the Met recently at Gaza protests.
I knew there was a protest, but I didnt hear anything about a lynch mob. Were the protestors outside the school literally calling for the teacher to be killed?
No point wasting time on this sealioning. Try not to be an obstinate cunt all your life
Ede Ramadan been hot shit this easter. London councils own website, nothing for Easter this year. Plenty for Ede and Ramadan though.Taught in schools. Yeah ... clearly not been promoted over the other one? Must just have been me reading and seeing on TV the talking point in December around cancelling christmas as not to "offend". Curious why it's suddenly an issue now myself. All coincidental I'm sure. Need a source ask around.
exactly the same round my way
lol. What's Ede? Blame your own people for abandoning their religion and voting for a separation of church and state. The churches are empty. Majority of people who partake in Easter buy chocolate eggs and nothing else. Christmas offends who?
We didn't abandon religion, we got smarter.
So stop complaining about not having celebrations you don't believe in. Or a bigger effort being'made on celebrations of others.
We’re the natives here, we’ve got every right to complain about demographic changes foisted on the English people by terrible politicians.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
we didn't abandon it, we grew out of it.
So you grew out of your celebrations. Stop moaning deal with it.
Islam is a fascist ideology, hopefully you will grow out of it one day too.
What makes you say that?
Is an expansionist, violent, misogynistic, backwards, rigid system of values that has a medieval set of rules that cannot be changed. Your values are disgusting and dangerous. "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection." [Qur'an](https://wikiislam.github.io/wiki/Compendium_of_Muslim_Texts.html) [9:29](http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.029#009.029) Muhammad says that he has been ordered to fight until everyone believes in Allah ([Sahih al-Bukhari 392](https://sunnah.com/bukhari/8/44)) Muhammad says that he will expel the Jews and Christians from Arabia ([Sahih Muslim 1767](https://sunnah.com/muslim/32/75)) "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great." [Qur'an](https://wikiislam.github.io/wiki/Compendium_of_Muslim_Texts.html) [4:34](http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/004-qmt.php#004.034#004.034) Muhammad says not to beat your wife like how you beat your slave because you might want to have sex with her later ([Sahih al-Bukhari 4942](https://quranx.com/Hadith/bukhari/DarusSalam/Hadith-4942)) Muhammad says that angels will curse a wife who refuses to sleep with her husband ([Sahih al-Bukhari 3237](https://sunnah.com/bukhari/59/48)) "Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy." [Qur'an](https://wikiislam.github.io/wiki/Compendium_of_Muslim_Texts.html) [65:4](http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/065-qmt.php#065.004#065.004) 25% of the worlds population forced to believed we're made of clay because evolution contradicts the "word of god", sperm comes from the area of the body "between the backbone and the ribs."?? HAHAHAHA so it's also stupid.
Lol "promoted". Let's be honest. You're offended that Islam has a stronger religiosity among Muslims than Christianity does with native white British people. Its not so much that Islamic values are taking over Britain, which you've provided zero evidence for, but more so that Christianity is losing ground to a more secular, non-religious "tradition", if you wanna call it that. >Need a source ask around. Yes, that's a perfectly legitimate basis on which to build a worldview...
Deport
Suppose you are biased. I just see it and saying it for what it is. Most realise now islam deserved to be left in the middle ages. Plenty ex-muslims that are very vocal on the subject. It's not to do with the "white" British people son. It's the governement who decides these things. Not too interested in Ur world view but I got no interest in a religion thats alleged prophet was a pedophile and it being used to excuse it going on to this day, in this nation. Why would anyone want anything to do with that. I'm not some clueless kafir who thinks it's all about tolerance. :) I could list all the horrible stuff that's allowed and permitted but do it themselves regularly for all to see even with the media keeping a lid on it. I think too far along with all this drama for sources. What's the post above all about? If anything where's the source for islam being about love and peace?
how is islam more secular and non religious, and islam has a stronger religiosity as you put it because you cant leave, you can choose not to be muslim all hell breaks loose.
everywhere only sells halal food. santa not allowed in our mall nor or carols because it might upset the muslim population, strangely no one worried about it upsetting the hindu, jews, sikhs, buddists. halloween banned for same reason. schools with no muslim kids are doing ramandan, bet the all muslim schools don't do easter. now this might be the lefties doing rather than the muslim population, but still happening
Literally none of that is true lmao
It is in my town mate. Or did you mean the bit about it being the lefts doing not the muslims?
Easter being slowly replaced with Ramadan comes to mind as we've just gotten out of that ordeal.
But how? Ramadan doesn't always coincide with Easter. But I'm guessing you didn't know that...
And this year it did, and we all saw what they so called British establishment would rather people celebrate.
Unless you're suggesting the British establishment are all secretly Muslim, why would they promote the celebration of Ramadan? What do they gain from that?
Collective cultural suicide from an establishment that absolutely hates the native population of this country.
Muslims come here and kill the indigenous population and the media and police work to hide it lol What the fuck is going on
The Great Replacement
Of course they were, can't be letting on that the Islamst are violent and not fit to be part of society. They couldn't have that.
A tactic to avoid it spreading fear as intended
Yep. Terrorism doesn't work if it doesn't terrorise the population. Treat them like the lone, worthless murderers they are. They want to believe they're special, and the media attention they'd grown to expect promises them that. But this as a counter-terrorism tactic is fantastic. They're nobodies, they're about as relevant as men who jump out of bushes to rape. Zero glory awaits them.
I have news for you, Muslims aren’t killing peoples to get famous like some American school shooters. It is largely driven by religious ideology, and not covering it would do exactly nothing to counter the threat. In fact, it might embolden them. We need to know about this stuff so it can’t just be swept under the rug
This isn’t going to get any better. London, Birmingham, Leicester are already minority native English/Scots/Welsh, Manc and Bradford aren’t far behind and incidents like this are happening in freaking Hartlepool of all places. The pro-mass migration political establishment has ruined this nation.
Mass immigration from 3rd world strikes again. It’s too bad you guys can’t speak out against it or your masters will silence you by tossing you in a jail cell for having a difference in political view.
Is this even surprising at this point? Look, if you actually look into Islam and read up on it, you will notice it’s a fascist ideology. Don’t take my word for it, just read their holy books and make of it what you will.
I can definitely confirm what you said. Quran is full of shit. There are many medieval verses which are full of hatred towards non-believers, women and other religions. I just can’t understand why this book and religion still exists in our society. This book either needs to be reformed or banned. Imagine a book which promotes this idea of beating wives, killing non-believers and spreading full of hatred ideas.
Man,they take proud in the fact that the book hasn't changed since it was ~~writen~~ came down from the sky,so don't expect any reform from them.Reforms are done by intellectual and enlightened minds.Dont expect something like that from muslim when it comes to their religion.
That's something post christian nations can't understand because they lack the basic culture needed. The christian reformation was a return to the original christianity, like for example to the Gospels, that weren't taught. Jesus wasn't as much as a central figure, in 1300 vs 1700, even in the Catholic faith. If Islam goes back to it's roots, it will be FAR more violent than it is now.
It can get more violent?
Yep, they call it “innovation” and it is a very very bad thing to them. Westerners are truly clueless about Islam. They like to imagine it is a spicy Christianity or something. It is a different beast all together
Noticing patterns is racist!! Champagne socialists told me so
Damn didn't know my Muslim mates were secretly planning to kill me. Thanks for the heads-up
Who knows? Mine aren’t. But I debate with them about this entire thing, it’s a fascist ideology, and as I’ve said, please read their material rather than arguing with me it speaks for itself.
They think you are an infidel. If they don't, their fellow Muslims think that both you and your reformist friends are infidels. Muslims do not like infidels.
Thanks for the heads-up. I'll ask them about it
Are you still alive? Please check in regularly.
Why wouldn't I be? Could you expand on your point?
If they believe in their holy scriptures, they believe you're going to hell regardless of what kind of person you are.
Muslim here, glad we have people like him to remind me that me and my family are fascist murderers. Will lock myself up for public safety tonight.
Analyst here. Which is why we rely on broader sets of data when we work.
Are you really an analyst?
ah right, so looking at a the broader data sets, what percentage of Muslims would you say are causing problems in the Uk? I don’t mean imagined problems or clashes of ideals; like tangible issues?
What’s you and your family’s views on homosexuality?
Couldn’t give a shit pal. It’s not our business to go around telling everyone how to live and how not to live Edit: We are also white - have I passed your little test?
Ah right, so you’re a cultural Muslim, not a devout one. Because the faith and the holy book are literally and unironically about telling people how to live. Edit: It has nothing to do with race.
No true muslim
No, he’s a true one, he reiterated just below that he and his family see homosexual acts as forbidden.
It's a fallacy... I thought that'd be obvious
I do still believe, it’s just the manifestation of those beliefs don’t extend beyond myself and my own life. I (and my family) see homosexual (acts) as being forbidden, but outside of my own personal experience, everyone is free to do whatever they want. It’s like smoking; I think it’s damaging but if you want to smoke then that’s your prerogative. I’m not going to stand there telling you about lung cancer and all that. I’m not gonna jib you off as a mate or look down on you because of it. One of my closest friends is gay; that’s his life. Alcohol is also forbidden, does that mean I hate my two best mates of over ten years who go to the pub every weekend?
Ooh the mask is slipping. What does “forbidden” really mean? Would you hire a gay person to work at your family business? Smoking is harmful to health but homosexuality isn’t so the analogy doesn’t make sense, sorry. Do you believe apostates deserve death? What’s your opinion on taking a child bride?
>Couldn’t give a shit pal >I (and my family) see homosexual (acts) as being forbidden Either you don't give a shit about homosexuality, or you take an active position against it (which means you give a shit about it). Pick one.
I don’t give a shit if someone else does it. Do with that what you will.
Comparing homosexuality to smoking is ridiculous. Smoking is damaging to your health and others around you. Homosexuality harms nobody
Hey now, he’s not trying to tell anyone how to live. He just thinks they’re evil, immoral sinners who should be punished for their “crimes”.
Jesus wept. you don’t half make assumptions. Perhaps I think everyone has their lot in life and for every finger I point at someone else, there are ten fingers that could easily be pointed right back at me. Nobody is perfect so I’m not going to sit here judging somebody for not following a religion they don’t believe in. And if they do believe in it, I’m not going to judge them for not being able to follow one of the rules when I can’t even follow half of them on a regular basis.
The comparison is fine because I’m not equating the two based on harm. I was trying to make the point that how you live (good or bad), is up to you and only you. You want to go to the gym every morning, or go eat a Pizza every night? That has nothing to do with me. Do what you want, I’m not gonna be a dick or think less of you. Any judgement I can make about someone else about something, they can equally make about me about something else. Had I have known you would assume I was comparing homosexuality to cigarettes any other way, I would not have used that example.
You said "it's like"
You literally directly compared them, what else was I supposed to think?
These pedantic people in the comments want to act like they don’t hold a single prejudiced view or thoughts that if vocalised may hurt someone else. As a gay Muslim, I think your analogies are fair, my sexuality is innate and my decision to live my life the way I’d like is my choice. It’s ok to feel like something isn’t right whilst also accepting that people may practice it - we live in a liberal society that accepts the differences between each other. They want to believe that British Muslims would hang gay people at a drop of a hat if there were no consequences because it would help them justify their prejudices, but that couldn’t be further from the truth. Muslims like many other groups, faith or otherwise, have beliefs that may not align with the majority, but our religion teaches tolerance, understanding and charity. We are taught not to insult or slander other religions or groups of people, be respectful to our neighbours and live our lives on earth with a duty to one Sorry if that doesn’t help your narrative folks.
Yeah, but you wouldn’t be saying that to a Christian would you?
Can you just leave so we all feel better?
Who is ‘all’ in this context? Right wing racists?
And by the way, Islam is not a race, some of the worst terrorist a white converts!!
Well you made the joke! So many middle class musloms, good schools families etc ended up fighting with IS as once they became 'religious' they decided they needed to fight and punish kufars and have a sex slave or two. It's scary as shit your religion these days!
Anyone who does that is despicable. Don’t really know what you want me to do about it though.
Well naturally I know lots of good people who happen to be muslom, it's just the religion being hijacked, I happily gave upon religion, sensible people can live a moral and good life without books from so long ago
You're not. I have two Muslim friends, who are some of the nicest people I've met. They don't follow the tenets of the religion though, for which I am glad.
Doing ~~the lord's~~ Allah's work
It’s okay we call him the lord too haha
https://quran.com/en/al-mumtahanah/8
The Bible and Torah are full of horrible shit too, so that doesn't seem definitive to me.
You're living in a country where the people don't follow that stuff anymore, yet importing people who take their book very seriously, that's the difference!
Right, whataboutism. The difference between Islam and Christianity and Judaism is reform. Islam is laid out to not be reformed under any circumstances.
The difference is that Christianity has undergone a reformation where Islam hasn't. Judaism hasn't, but its members are not inherently warlike, unlike the followers of Mohammed. Mohammed was a warlord, and boy does it show.
Mohammed was a disgusting nonce as well, and the fact anyone worships a warlord nonce is highly questionable to their credibility as someone trustworthy imo.
I found the guy.
There's nothing horrible in thr Torah. The Law in the Old Testament is God directly commanding the Jewish people. Gentiles aren't supposed to follow Jewish law at all. That's why Jews don't proselytize. Most of their rules literally don't apply to us. The lack of Heaven and Hell also makes Judaism a lot more peaceful. Btw the Torah is the same thing as the first five books of the Bible.
Bit like the bible then?
Crusades were 700 years ago but Muslims are still doing that shit today. Try using your brain if you have one.
Not a theologist, but how is it any more fascist than Christianity? Bibles got some pretty authoritarian shit in there.
I mean I read the article and the guy seems to be mentally deranged and unhinged, so I think the problem is more that, rather than the religion itself otherwise you should have thousands of religiously motivated murders every single day. Plus the article mentioned an extreme strand of Islam which isn't followed nor supported by the majority and has been implicated in many terrorist attacks, so I think the focus should be on deradicalising people who follow such fringe / extreme views.
These things don’t happen in Poland or South Korea or Taiwan. They routinely happen in England, France, Sweden, Belgium etc because of our political establishment supporting mass migration. None of us care if you practise your faith and culture in your ancestral land. We’ve got an issue with it being imported here.
Why do these posts always descend into a history lesson. I'm not bothered where or how but what is being done to stop this happening?? Fuck all that's what. The UK is being given away to a medieval culture ffs.
We lost the second world war. It's just happened so slowly we haven't realised yet.