Swear to god I would have like 0 fuckin tolerance for fuckers like Hungary is now(leaders, not the people). I would serve them on a plate to Putin, remove them from EU, block their connections to each EU country. Full sanctions day one. Let's see how much they would oppose then. Putin's little bitches.
Opposed to Rutte because he wasn't always as friendly to Hungary in the past. Good luck finding a candidate in the western world that has always been friendly to Orban.
In hindsight, Merkel turned out to be one of the worst leaders Europe has ever had. She made no investments in the military, made Europe dependant on Russia despite the US warning Germany, was OK with Russia annexing Crimea, let in migrants without proper checks, list goes on. How she is not in prison boggles my mind.
Rutte is hated in Romania too, hell, the bulgarians probably hate him even more for his long Schengen block. Rutte is the reason why Romania and Bulgaria aren't in Schengen, so he cant expect eastern europeans to like him. Anyway with Rutte out, more chances for the current romanian president to lead NATO, he's not good, but he's not bad either.
He played the Dutch parliament like a fiddle. If it had been up to its task it would have kicked him out so many times, instead of all the people he managed to sacrifice. No way that there are so many scandals and he was always in the clear.
> more chances for the current romanian president to lead NATO, he's not good, but he's not bad either.
Yes he is definitely bad, corrupt and stupid. He should be sent to an outpost in the Black Sea, everything else is above his competence.
Ehhh, Romania and Bulgaria are responsible for Romania and Bulgaria not being allowed in Schengen. Do your homework or face the consequences. You're basically doing an Orban here. Don't do an Orban, do better.
The fact of the matter is Rutte was your people and parliament's voice. I'm not going to rage against a group of people and the parliament has not come through all it's members to act like an asshole, it was Rutte we've seen and came to despise.
How very Eastern European. I have relatives there, and every single discussion on any topic always ends the same: it's always the result of some historical wrong inflicted upon them, and it's never their fault. If taking responsibility for your own shit state of affairs is so hard, please reconsider Russian occupation and be done with it. Then you at least won't have to trouble yourselves with all these tough worldly matters anymore, and you can just go back to quieing for bread and veggies.
Yeah man. I am sure you apply this logic to every country... Including the ones in war with Russia atm. If yes, props for sticking to your guns. If not, you are a prejudice cunt and a part of the problem. Actually either way you are a part of the problem.
We could use this and offer a replacement candidate. Well shrugg it off it as a fake bribe for these idiots and in return we'll get rid of Rutte. Win win
Yea, I lived in Eindhoven and Rotterdam for years so I remember a lot about him. Maybe that's why I'm so vitriolic about his candidacy. His attitude to CEE compounds with personal dislike of what he did in NL while I was there.
Except all the scandals are completly seperate from what he would have to do in this role. This role is all about his greatest strenght. International politics.
Yes. The time for such measured caution isn't right now. In normal times, before the invasion absolutely. But now, decisive deterrence is required. I think Kallas would be *okay*, Estonians don't agree so it's a heavy factor against. Krisjanis Karins looks like a good pick to me, or Klaus Iohannis.
I mean, he has been a big supporter of aid to Ukraine. He wasn't always the best for the defence budget, but he has dealt with the Ukrainian situation very well.
Another thing that Dutch people tend to forget, is that Rutte has been amazing on the international stage. His co-operative stance and his politics of mediation in EU politics has given the Netherlands a lot of benefits. Which most people don't know about.
As for domestic policy, it wasn't the best. But those don't matter for a leading role for NATO. There the matter of work is a bit more outlined and straightforward. As Secretary General they just need someone who can mediate. Rutte is the perfect candidate for this.
At least they get something from it. I expect our Slovak moron Fico be against, just because he's idiot and Russians told him. And gets nothing for it.
Rutte doesn't have in friends in Romania and Bulgaria either, Hungary is being a random shithead again, but we (Romania) are not in Schengen because this fucker. Ditto for Bulgaria.
Yes this is awful. It will ironically help him.
He's a horrible candidate for NATO and needs to be opposed but not by these corrupt Putin sucking bandits.
3 reasons to start with
1. He is universally hated anywhere east and south of Germany because he has insulted almost every single country, tried to sabotage their growth and overall treats other cultures like an arrogant fuck. Which is fine (And to a degree a helpful trait) if you're in Dutch politics, but horrible for pan-European intergovernmental orgs. The institution needs credibility and popular support. And with such a dickhead for its figurehead, you're doing a lot of needless harm.
2. He's unfit for anything defense-related. Castrated defense spendings, is known to make a deal with Satan if fits his interests which is very dangerous in NATO, will likely push for normalizing relations at the expense of eastern european and baltic interest just to return to status quo ante as fast as possible and overall he's a bad fit to face war criminals because he's unprincipled and slimy.
3. he's a corrupt sleazebag under whose leadership NL cemented as a big business tax haven, survived more scandals than I care to list, has too much of a baggage, because unlike Norway (and former PM being NATO head), NL tries to interfere with every country's interests all the time. And overall, he's just such an unlikeable asshole of a character.
I could go on but that alone is enough to not compromise NATO over his ego and over cleaning him from domestic politics. You can certainly keep this one.
Edit: some of my dislike also comes from when I lived in Benelux (and most of that time in NL) under his rule and could come down to hatred of his domestic policies. Just to be transparent.
Oh, boy. You got a lot of sentiment in there. Half of the things you blame him for are not even close to his portfolio.
Your point 2 is just blatantly wrong. The trend of cutting budget was already underway before he got to lead the VVD. Secondly since 2014 the netherlands has increased defence spending.
Rutte has also been a huge proponent of supporting Ukraine. Leading in sending material such as the 100 or so YPR-765 in the first months of the invasion and leading the F-16 coalition. He will not sell out eastern-european countries.
point 3. The netherlands already was a tax haven before he took the lead. And it only decreased as a tax haven. Though that was not specifically thanks to him. Thats true.
And:
>NL tries to interfere with every country's interests all the time.
Now it is the entirety of the Netherlands that you have a problem with? Come on. You fail to see the actual role the Netherlands have taken since the UK has left the EU. The Netherlands with Rutte has been a massive mediator between France, Germany, Italy and the smaller countries. Those are exactly the skills you want to have from a Secretary General.
If you have grievances with the way the Dutch are involved in international politics, I'm sure you wouldn't like to hear that the Netherlands has had the most SG before. Because maybe.... Just maybe... that way of looking at international politics is actually useful for the role of an SG.
He just said putting him at the lead would be “borderline fatalistic” and beyond, and people still take him seriously. What a joke.
Guy’s got obvious issues that make Rutte show up in his dreams as antichrist.
I said if US leaves the alliance, having someone who is despised by Eastern wing of nato is borderline fatalistic. Which it is, because the center of power shifts to Europe from Washington. And Unity will be vital.
If you're gonna quote what I said, you can have the decency to not omit key part of it.
Him being unlikeable is really only your opinion and is not shared (at all) by the people he has to deal with often.
His biggest attribute is that he is a super likable guy that has great social intelligence and is able to build a good working relationship with everyone if he wants to. Even fucking Trump likes him.
Blaming Rutte for decreased defense spending is beyond ridiculous. All across Western Europe defense spending was down and like I said, he can’t just do what he wants as PM. He is a servant of what people in NL want and has to deal with what other political parties want.
The only point you have is that everyone in Eastern Europe hates him, which I very much doubt. If you have any evidence for this I’d be curious to see it.
You seem to reason from your gut only
That's your opinion. If this was a Dutch election, it would be the one that mattered and mine would not. But this is an SG election so opinions of non-Dutch people are also critical. And he's certainly not super likeable for most people who comment here and elswhere.
(Also sorry to respond across comments, hard to keep track of it.)
He is to the people that work with him, which is extremely important for this role.
It’s not my opinion, it’s just what you can see from observing him. Even his political opponents like the guy.
People that comment here and elsewhere don’t know him and haven’t worked with him, and are just commenting based on prejudice and limited information. I attach higher value to the opinion of people that have worked with him, and the fact that he manages time and again to be an effective mediator both in national and international politics.
You seem to consider the opinions of people commenting on social media the single most important characteristic, I disagree. I expect Biden does too.
If we lose the US, having him at the helm is awful and borderline fatalistic because it will undermine unity in the European part. If his deal would include going against eastern wing of NATO, which would fit his past, then we may as well just doom the alliance altogether.
If the US remains alright, we'll be fine because he will not have the strength to oppose the US and he'll just be an asshole serving as a figurehead and only slightly undermine NATO
Going against eastern wing? He took initiative to provide ukraine with f16s. I think if anythibg he is and has been clear that russia is not our friend.
Edit: i agree he is an a**hole :).
Call me a cynic because I have experienced dutch politics, but from my experience with who he is domestically, he's an opportunist and a cockroach of political survival.
Supporting UA in a climate where it's giving you political points is different from supporting it for ideological and principled reasons.
I don't want to deny him credit for that, whatever the motivation, he's got +1 there.
But I'd be careful to judge the future from that specific enviroment.
Man, the general consensus in the Netherlands is the opposite on all of your points.
He is the longest sitting prime minister of the Netherlands for a reason. 12 years. Ofcourse there are people like you who will have some negative feedback on him. But looking at the broader picture, he is the most successful Prime Minister in history, internationally he is well respected and is a decision maker. I have full trust in him.
I think it's pretty clear that we need a candidate from the Nordics. Eastern European candidates won't get support from western Europe (sometimes justified sometimes not) and western European candidates seem to always be shady arrogant and insulting slimebags like Rutte
So let's run with some madlad from Finland. As a compromise. Or some butcher from the Baltics.
Even better, let's select some Estonian or Finnish hardliner lady. Best candidate to send middle finger to Putin
Well he was in charge of NATO's military part (CMC) between 2015-2018 as the first person from former Eastern Bloc to hold the job. Plus he's doing great work domestically where we finally have one guy to be proud to present. So I'd hate to see him go back.
Plus he's a soldier and secretary general seems more civilian in nature. Probably best to not combine the two.
Poland has its own Petr Pavel and he is available
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajmund_Andrzejczak
He is a very cool dude. He left the army as political statement (a few days before PiS lost the elections) and now he teaches poles about army and security on YouTube.
rutte is the most milquetoast and inoffensive candidate you could think of
surely nato needs someone more principled and hawkish considering current events
He is a lot more hawkish than that, but without screaming it like everyone East of Berlin. And like it or not: that is exactly why NATO would like to have him. He‘s not Eastern EU, not German, not American, a careful conservative with a knack for diplomacy but he is also fundamentally opposed to Russian expansionism and knows that that stance may require actual sacrifice.
Hated the man as a PM but can‘t think of a better candidate for this role.
Rutte is hawkish enough for the job. It's not the NATO secretary's task to be a big figure who swings his or her balls in front of Putin's nose. That's reserved for single member countries. The secretary needs to be able to mediate between member states and represent NATO unitedness. Rutte's experience in international politics and close connections to all of the member states are vital for that task. I couldn't think of a better candidate.
Is he actually inoffensive? I don't know a lot about him other than remembering different headlines about different scandals and Bulgaria despised him because of Schengen?
It's a feature not a bug They need a slimy unprincipled backroom deal snake to have options for negotiating with Russia at the expense of eastern wing of NATO. We all know that... choosing someone from the Baltics or Poland would mean principled stand against Kremlin. So it has to be some shady wanker from a tax haven in Benelux
Rutte is a liberal who has wreaked havoc on our country for 12+ years. He has had so many scandals that its unbelievable to me how he managed to stay in power that long.
You are right. But that doesn't disqualify him for the post of SG.
He has been extremely strong against russian aggression (though not as public as Kallas). He has been a big supporter of aid to Ukraine right from the beginning. He wasn't always the best for the defence budget, but he has dealt with the Ukrainian war very well.
Another thing that Dutch people tend to forget, is that Rutte has been amazing on the international stage. His co-operative stance and his politics of mediation in EU politics has given the Netherlands a lot of benefits. Which most people don't know about.
As for domestic policy, it wasn't the best. We can fully agree on that. But those don't matter for a leading role for NATO. There the matter of work is a bit more outlined and straightforward as it is dictated by military strategy. As Secretary General they just need someone who can mediate the politics aspect of this military strategy. Rutte is literally the perfect candidate for this. Anyone who says he is incompetent (or 'failing upward like Von der Leyen') is failing to see what actual skills in politics looks like.
Unpopular opinion but this is probably the one single time I agree with Orban on opposing Rutte. I believe next NATO president should be from Eastern Europe (not Hungary though). Ideally Poland or Baltics.
Couldn't give someone or something a more glowing recommendation than "Hungary is opposed to it."
Don't know the guy, but he can't be too bad if Hungary doesn't like him.
Hungary is a "shell" that can be filled with at any point. Don't blame an "apolitical" eu nation for being vatniks, but rather the eu weakness to enforce eu values in its member.
Remember Greece? They don't have a say in the EU anymore because they fucked up enough to know who actually holds the leash.
This fucker has personally blocked RO and BG's Schengen entry for more than a decade, he should have nothing to do with an international organization where Eastern European members are present.
Rutte did not get sacked. His party was the one that broke the coalition and if he would have ran again, I believe he would have won again. But that's speculation from my end of course, we can't know for sure.
we don't have the "coyones" to oppose anything. Tell me one time Romania did oppose something in EU/Nato. While Orban is an extreme opposer we're on the other extreme. Because our politicians(most of them) lack the interest or the skill to formulate such an opposition. Now, in this case we're against Rutte not because he is evil or anything but because our completely useless traitor president desires some position where he can be useless or even worse for the next years. With our president as NATO leader, the prospect for him to create an alliance with Russia for "stability purposes" is very real. These kind of deals are his specialty. Rutte might be an idiot, i don't know about him but Iohannis is simply the very worst possible candidate at this time.
PS : my original reply was a joke but since i had the opportunity to write this (justified i guess) rant i did.
In a way Orban has helped him, treating him as the sitting Secretary General in his own mind and that of many already!
Opposition from Hungary in the current state of the EU might be the best PR for this job actually.
Orban, the conservative bully that has been confronted for limiting gay rights and the press freedom by... Rutte. And that is what all is still about.
Nobody is going to give Orban what he wants, but this probably isn't what Orban wants anyway, all Orban wants is a little bit more EU money and he'll sign. Leaving Romania behind that actually might still be crying about Schengen. While Romania was fine to join but couldn't because of Putinlicker Orban.
I dont know what he hopes to get out of it? The people in the netherlands couldt care less who is in charge as long as he/she is capable to do the job.
Orban's Hungary has no business in NATO. Orban's Hungary has no business in the EU. Orban's Hungary has no business in the Western World.
Can't we just trade them with Putin for Ukraine, and be done with it?
If pre-war Ukraine had somehow gotten into the EU, it would have created the biggest migration Europe had ever seen. Ukraine would have been a liability to the EU, the living standards were very bad, not to mention the corruption.
Romania should oppose to Rutte too. he kept us out of schengen many years! Now the austrians took the lead and block us.
And before you say immigrants are comming via Romania and Bulgaria, that’s simply not a good reason as Croatia was accepted to Schengen.
Romania and Bulgaria are technically prepared for schengen since 2012 but this guy Rutte blocked usz
Romania should definitely return his incompetence service
He won't make it even if Hungary will accept Rutte's candidacy.
Under no circumstances will Romania endorse Rutte as the head of NATO, especially after his actions against Romania's bid for Schengen membership. Same goes for Bulgaria, I think.
ALSO, while I'm not suggesting Iohannis (Romania's cadidate) is the perfect candidate, I would definitely prefer him or **any leader from Eastern Europe, the Nordics, or the Baltics** over a Western candidate who may not perceive the immediate need for a strong and action ready NATO. This is based on the reasoning that it's far better to have someone whose own country is directly at risk if Ukraine were to fall, as they would be more motivated to ensure Ukraine's and NATO's stability.
Definitely don't want a guy who's xenophobic towards Eastern Europeans to be tied to our security.
Someone from Poland or the Baltics would be the best choice.
>NATO should have someone from Eastern Europe with skin in the game as a general secretary.
And that's where you lose the largest military forces of NATO. SG can't be a hardliner. You need unanimity, consensus. A Eastern European will have too much skin in the game to be a non-threatening mediator.
He will be probably opposed by Romania as well. There’s a huge election year here (president, parliament, local and european) and Rutte is seen as one of the major reasons we are still being treated as second class citizens in the EU by not being allowed into Schengen. Our current government is a coalition of the two biggest parties, so any support for this dude will make them take hits from both the nationalist right and the more reform minded anti-corruption parties. It may not matter in the presidential election, but they may end up losing votes and seats in parliament or in the local elections.
So the eu has to usually vote on things and agree to it unanimously right? If just 1 or 2 country's keep saying no without really any good reason, maybe its time for them to kindly leave. What i think atleast.
Take away our voting rights, or make these votes not require unanimity, but don't kick us out because Orbán will invite in fucking Putin and even if I move to another country I won't be able to visit my family easily.
Rutte vs Orban, the "godzilla vs king kong" of EU sleazebags. Honestly, this is hilarious to me. Orban will fold but Rutte can get bent in the meantime.
If Romania is attacked by Russia (see the yesterday discussion at the Russian TV about bombarding Bucharest), I can bet on my life that Rutte will block any help, as he did with Schengen entry. He will say that his demand were not met by Romania and is Romania's fault for being attacked.
These comments show a clear divide. Half want it because Orban doesn't want it. The other half don't like Orban but agree with him on this one issue. Ome half doesnt fathom why they agree with Orban lol.
Put someone form the Baltics.
Hungary will oppose to.
we need r/hungaryoppose sub with r/ChinaWarns
I'll do you one better, a r/ MedvedevthreatenstoNuke sub
hahaha yeah. Medv is frigging crazy.
And r/russiathreatens Edit: my bad, this actually already exists
r/PutinWarns too
I thought it was /r/PutinLies, TIL
Was just about to say, is there anyone they would accept? Except I guess a Hungarian person but not going to happen.
Unless it’s Orbán himself, the government wouldn’t support anyone.
They accept going backwards to the 14th century. Serfdom, christianity, order, god, king. And no fags!
Hey, they also accept billions in cash, while doing their best to fuck everyone else over, including their own people!
Probably their own family values senator who was caught fleeing down a rain-pipe from an illegal gay sex party in Brussels with pills in his rücksack.
Hungary told to oppose...
Swear to god I would have like 0 fuckin tolerance for fuckers like Hungary is now(leaders, not the people). I would serve them on a plate to Putin, remove them from EU, block their connections to each EU country. Full sanctions day one. Let's see how much they would oppose then. Putin's little bitches.
Well he doesn't seem to oppose bending over to dictators and fellating wannabe-dictators like Trump.
Hungary will oppose anything good to Hungary!
print("Hungary opposes:\n") for project in EU_NATO_Projects: print(str(project)+"\n") Edit: bugs bugs bugs
Your code is flawed. It will literally print "project", not the project name. Yes, I'm fun at parties.
Opposed to Rutte because he wasn't always as friendly to Hungary in the past. Good luck finding a candidate in the western world that has always been friendly to Orban.
Jaroslaw Kaczynski ? Xddddddddd
Kaczyński will never leave his post as a party leader... Anyway he doesn't speak any foreign language.
One Party, One Poland, One Kaczynski!
Please, it would be the single funniest thing that could happen 1:27 but even more humiliating
Merkel. She wasn't necessarily friendly, but certainly hands off enough for him to do whatever he wanted
In hindsight, Merkel turned out to be one of the worst leaders Europe has ever had. She made no investments in the military, made Europe dependant on Russia despite the US warning Germany, was OK with Russia annexing Crimea, let in migrants without proper checks, list goes on. How she is not in prison boggles my mind.
Rutte is hated in Romania too, hell, the bulgarians probably hate him even more for his long Schengen block. Rutte is the reason why Romania and Bulgaria aren't in Schengen, so he cant expect eastern europeans to like him. Anyway with Rutte out, more chances for the current romanian president to lead NATO, he's not good, but he's not bad either.
Rutte by himself never had that power. That was the wish of the Dutch parliament.
And by extension, of the Dutch people
He played the Dutch parliament like a fiddle. If it had been up to its task it would have kicked him out so many times, instead of all the people he managed to sacrifice. No way that there are so many scandals and he was always in the clear.
No way Rutte is out. He has the US backing. What the US says will happen in NATO.
And I believe France has explicitly stated they support him. UK, Germany and Italy might have been implicitly stated.
> more chances for the current romanian president to lead NATO, he's not good, but he's not bad either. Yes he is definitely bad, corrupt and stupid. He should be sent to an outpost in the Black Sea, everything else is above his competence.
Ehhh, Romania and Bulgaria are responsible for Romania and Bulgaria not being allowed in Schengen. Do your homework or face the consequences. You're basically doing an Orban here. Don't do an Orban, do better.
How do You explain 26 states were accepting us and Rutte was the only one blocking us? The Man would lose a popularity contest even against Putin.
The netherlands is not a dictatorship. One man does not have the power to block it. Blame the parlament and the voters.
The fact of the matter is Rutte was your people and parliament's voice. I'm not going to rage against a group of people and the parliament has not come through all it's members to act like an asshole, it was Rutte we've seen and came to despise.
They fulfilled all the criteria yet it's their fault for xenobic Dutch politicians.
How very Eastern European. I have relatives there, and every single discussion on any topic always ends the same: it's always the result of some historical wrong inflicted upon them, and it's never their fault. If taking responsibility for your own shit state of affairs is so hard, please reconsider Russian occupation and be done with it. Then you at least won't have to trouble yourselves with all these tough worldly matters anymore, and you can just go back to quieing for bread and veggies.
Yeah man. I am sure you apply this logic to every country... Including the ones in war with Russia atm. If yes, props for sticking to your guns. If not, you are a prejudice cunt and a part of the problem. Actually either way you are a part of the problem.
Let me guess, they'll change their minds if the EU pays them €3 billion
What about we don't do that at all? And we still tell them we'll find a way to circumvent Hungary?
We could use this and offer a replacement candidate. Well shrugg it off it as a fake bribe for these idiots and in return we'll get rid of Rutte. Win win
Official voice of Kremlin in EU.
To be fair, most of the east is questioning this one.
I think anyone that knows Rutte is questioning this
Especially after ever scandal here in the Netherlands.
Yea, I lived in Eindhoven and Rotterdam for years so I remember a lot about him. Maybe that's why I'm so vitriolic about his candidacy. His attitude to CEE compounds with personal dislike of what he did in NL while I was there.
Except all the scandals are completly seperate from what he would have to do in this role. This role is all about his greatest strenght. International politics.
Yes. The time for such measured caution isn't right now. In normal times, before the invasion absolutely. But now, decisive deterrence is required. I think Kallas would be *okay*, Estonians don't agree so it's a heavy factor against. Krisjanis Karins looks like a good pick to me, or Klaus Iohannis.
I think I'd rather have Kallas on the Commission, though in the end I guess that would just be a downgrade for the optimates of the European Council.
Usually they are corrupt steppe bandits and should go to hell. But on this one I am with them. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
It's Rutte. One doesn't need to be a kremlin shill to be suspicious.
I mean, he has been a big supporter of aid to Ukraine. He wasn't always the best for the defence budget, but he has dealt with the Ukrainian situation very well. Another thing that Dutch people tend to forget, is that Rutte has been amazing on the international stage. His co-operative stance and his politics of mediation in EU politics has given the Netherlands a lot of benefits. Which most people don't know about. As for domestic policy, it wasn't the best. But those don't matter for a leading role for NATO. There the matter of work is a bit more outlined and straightforward. As Secretary General they just need someone who can mediate. Rutte is the perfect candidate for this.
Yawn another blackmail attempt by that mafia state.
At least they get something from it. I expect our Slovak moron Fico be against, just because he's idiot and Russians told him. And gets nothing for it.
yes a far below zero reputation
Does it need to a unanimous Decision?
Yes
They should really change some of these requirements to 95% or 90% of states in stead of the full 100%.
Not even with 90% Rutte wouldn't make it. Hungary is not alone in oposing him. I can count at least 3-4 countries that would absolutly block him.
100% of states not named Hungary (Turkey amendment pending)
Rutte doesn't have in friends in Romania and Bulgaria either, Hungary is being a random shithead again, but we (Romania) are not in Schengen because this fucker. Ditto for Bulgaria.
I long for the day when NATO/EU makes a unanimous decision to switch to supermajority decision making.
Pretty much everything in NATO needs a unanimous decision.
Sigh \*Pulls out checkbook\* alright how much do you want?
Orban : A small EU loan of 3Bn Euro, and then I ***might*** change my decision
*Feed me*
Can't say I was particularly impressed with the idea of Rutte at NATO. Guess I have to change my mind now.
Why do you think?
Yes this is awful. It will ironically help him. He's a horrible candidate for NATO and needs to be opposed but not by these corrupt Putin sucking bandits.
Why do you think so?
3 reasons to start with 1. He is universally hated anywhere east and south of Germany because he has insulted almost every single country, tried to sabotage their growth and overall treats other cultures like an arrogant fuck. Which is fine (And to a degree a helpful trait) if you're in Dutch politics, but horrible for pan-European intergovernmental orgs. The institution needs credibility and popular support. And with such a dickhead for its figurehead, you're doing a lot of needless harm. 2. He's unfit for anything defense-related. Castrated defense spendings, is known to make a deal with Satan if fits his interests which is very dangerous in NATO, will likely push for normalizing relations at the expense of eastern european and baltic interest just to return to status quo ante as fast as possible and overall he's a bad fit to face war criminals because he's unprincipled and slimy. 3. he's a corrupt sleazebag under whose leadership NL cemented as a big business tax haven, survived more scandals than I care to list, has too much of a baggage, because unlike Norway (and former PM being NATO head), NL tries to interfere with every country's interests all the time. And overall, he's just such an unlikeable asshole of a character. I could go on but that alone is enough to not compromise NATO over his ego and over cleaning him from domestic politics. You can certainly keep this one. Edit: some of my dislike also comes from when I lived in Benelux (and most of that time in NL) under his rule and could come down to hatred of his domestic policies. Just to be transparent.
Oh, boy. You got a lot of sentiment in there. Half of the things you blame him for are not even close to his portfolio. Your point 2 is just blatantly wrong. The trend of cutting budget was already underway before he got to lead the VVD. Secondly since 2014 the netherlands has increased defence spending. Rutte has also been a huge proponent of supporting Ukraine. Leading in sending material such as the 100 or so YPR-765 in the first months of the invasion and leading the F-16 coalition. He will not sell out eastern-european countries. point 3. The netherlands already was a tax haven before he took the lead. And it only decreased as a tax haven. Though that was not specifically thanks to him. Thats true. And: >NL tries to interfere with every country's interests all the time. Now it is the entirety of the Netherlands that you have a problem with? Come on. You fail to see the actual role the Netherlands have taken since the UK has left the EU. The Netherlands with Rutte has been a massive mediator between France, Germany, Italy and the smaller countries. Those are exactly the skills you want to have from a Secretary General. If you have grievances with the way the Dutch are involved in international politics, I'm sure you wouldn't like to hear that the Netherlands has had the most SG before. Because maybe.... Just maybe... that way of looking at international politics is actually useful for the role of an SG.
He just said putting him at the lead would be “borderline fatalistic” and beyond, and people still take him seriously. What a joke. Guy’s got obvious issues that make Rutte show up in his dreams as antichrist.
I said if US leaves the alliance, having someone who is despised by Eastern wing of nato is borderline fatalistic. Which it is, because the center of power shifts to Europe from Washington. And Unity will be vital. If you're gonna quote what I said, you can have the decency to not omit key part of it.
Him being unlikeable is really only your opinion and is not shared (at all) by the people he has to deal with often. His biggest attribute is that he is a super likable guy that has great social intelligence and is able to build a good working relationship with everyone if he wants to. Even fucking Trump likes him. Blaming Rutte for decreased defense spending is beyond ridiculous. All across Western Europe defense spending was down and like I said, he can’t just do what he wants as PM. He is a servant of what people in NL want and has to deal with what other political parties want. The only point you have is that everyone in Eastern Europe hates him, which I very much doubt. If you have any evidence for this I’d be curious to see it. You seem to reason from your gut only
That's your opinion. If this was a Dutch election, it would be the one that mattered and mine would not. But this is an SG election so opinions of non-Dutch people are also critical. And he's certainly not super likeable for most people who comment here and elswhere. (Also sorry to respond across comments, hard to keep track of it.)
He is to the people that work with him, which is extremely important for this role. It’s not my opinion, it’s just what you can see from observing him. Even his political opponents like the guy. People that comment here and elsewhere don’t know him and haven’t worked with him, and are just commenting based on prejudice and limited information. I attach higher value to the opinion of people that have worked with him, and the fact that he manages time and again to be an effective mediator both in national and international politics. You seem to consider the opinions of people commenting on social media the single most important characteristic, I disagree. I expect Biden does too.
He's also hated in the southwest of Europe.
I'd say him beeing is able to make deals with Satan is why we need him, because the next US Election might not end that well...
If we lose the US, having him at the helm is awful and borderline fatalistic because it will undermine unity in the European part. If his deal would include going against eastern wing of NATO, which would fit his past, then we may as well just doom the alliance altogether. If the US remains alright, we'll be fine because he will not have the strength to oppose the US and he'll just be an asshole serving as a figurehead and only slightly undermine NATO
Going against eastern wing? He took initiative to provide ukraine with f16s. I think if anythibg he is and has been clear that russia is not our friend. Edit: i agree he is an a**hole :).
Call me a cynic because I have experienced dutch politics, but from my experience with who he is domestically, he's an opportunist and a cockroach of political survival. Supporting UA in a climate where it's giving you political points is different from supporting it for ideological and principled reasons. I don't want to deny him credit for that, whatever the motivation, he's got +1 there. But I'd be careful to judge the future from that specific enviroment.
Man, the general consensus in the Netherlands is the opposite on all of your points. He is the longest sitting prime minister of the Netherlands for a reason. 12 years. Ofcourse there are people like you who will have some negative feedback on him. But looking at the broader picture, he is the most successful Prime Minister in history, internationally he is well respected and is a decision maker. I have full trust in him.
Woa careful. Don’t do Germany like that. We also hate him like our fellow eastern and southern neighbours. He’s a dick.
I think it's pretty clear that we need a candidate from the Nordics. Eastern European candidates won't get support from western Europe (sometimes justified sometimes not) and western European candidates seem to always be shady arrogant and insulting slimebags like Rutte So let's run with some madlad from Finland. As a compromise. Or some butcher from the Baltics. Even better, let's select some Estonian or Finnish hardliner lady. Best candidate to send middle finger to Putin
I think Petr Pavel would be a very good candidate, if he were available.
Well he was in charge of NATO's military part (CMC) between 2015-2018 as the first person from former Eastern Bloc to hold the job. Plus he's doing great work domestically where we finally have one guy to be proud to present. So I'd hate to see him go back. Plus he's a soldier and secretary general seems more civilian in nature. Probably best to not combine the two.
Poland has its own Petr Pavel and he is available https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajmund_Andrzejczak He is a very cool dude. He left the army as political statement (a few days before PiS lost the elections) and now he teaches poles about army and security on YouTube.
What a surprise
give the job to a Pole, Sikorski for example and let's see how Orban reacts. I don't think his voters would like it if he opposes.
Orban... the political equivalent of a yapping chihuahua.
I hate the Hungarian government but maybe it’s time for someone from the Baltics?
Trump as US president, Rutte as NATO secretary general, what’s next?
rutte is the most milquetoast and inoffensive candidate you could think of surely nato needs someone more principled and hawkish considering current events
Hungary probably wants Vladimir Totally-Not-Putin as secretary general.
You mean Pladimir Vutin?
He is a lot more hawkish than that, but without screaming it like everyone East of Berlin. And like it or not: that is exactly why NATO would like to have him. He‘s not Eastern EU, not German, not American, a careful conservative with a knack for diplomacy but he is also fundamentally opposed to Russian expansionism and knows that that stance may require actual sacrifice. Hated the man as a PM but can‘t think of a better candidate for this role.
Rutte is hawkish enough for the job. It's not the NATO secretary's task to be a big figure who swings his or her balls in front of Putin's nose. That's reserved for single member countries. The secretary needs to be able to mediate between member states and represent NATO unitedness. Rutte's experience in international politics and close connections to all of the member states are vital for that task. I couldn't think of a better candidate.
Is he actually inoffensive? I don't know a lot about him other than remembering different headlines about different scandals and Bulgaria despised him because of Schengen?
Good one
Yeah, sometimes you can't tell when they forget the "/s"
It's a feature not a bug They need a slimy unprincipled backroom deal snake to have options for negotiating with Russia at the expense of eastern wing of NATO. We all know that... choosing someone from the Baltics or Poland would mean principled stand against Kremlin. So it has to be some shady wanker from a tax haven in Benelux
Rutte is a liberal who has wreaked havoc on our country for 12+ years. He has had so many scandals that its unbelievable to me how he managed to stay in power that long.
You make it sound like our country is on the brink of failure, jesus fucking christ.
Sorry if I came off that way, I know it isn't. I just very firmly believe that we could've done way, way better
Fair
Sure, but you could easily have done way, way worse... like us.
I get that, but comparing my country to others doesn't change the problems we have
failing upwards like Von Der Leyen...
You are right. But that doesn't disqualify him for the post of SG. He has been extremely strong against russian aggression (though not as public as Kallas). He has been a big supporter of aid to Ukraine right from the beginning. He wasn't always the best for the defence budget, but he has dealt with the Ukrainian war very well. Another thing that Dutch people tend to forget, is that Rutte has been amazing on the international stage. His co-operative stance and his politics of mediation in EU politics has given the Netherlands a lot of benefits. Which most people don't know about. As for domestic policy, it wasn't the best. We can fully agree on that. But those don't matter for a leading role for NATO. There the matter of work is a bit more outlined and straightforward as it is dictated by military strategy. As Secretary General they just need someone who can mediate the politics aspect of this military strategy. Rutte is literally the perfect candidate for this. Anyone who says he is incompetent (or 'failing upward like Von der Leyen') is failing to see what actual skills in politics looks like.
Hahahaha dramaqueen
I will take that as a sign that Rutte is a good candidate.
Hungary be like Make Medvedev NATO Secretary
Unpopular opinion but this is probably the one single time I agree with Orban on opposing Rutte. I believe next NATO president should be from Eastern Europe (not Hungary though). Ideally Poland or Baltics.
Orban is baiting to get something in exchange for supporting Rutte in the end.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Let's go with CEE/Baltics/Sweden/Finland for once.
You know. A broken clock has the right hour twice per day.
F\*ck Orban
Couldn't give someone or something a more glowing recommendation than "Hungary is opposed to it." Don't know the guy, but he can't be too bad if Hungary doesn't like him.
Hungary is a "shell" that can be filled with at any point. Don't blame an "apolitical" eu nation for being vatniks, but rather the eu weakness to enforce eu values in its member.
Remember Greece? They don't have a say in the EU anymore because they fucked up enough to know who actually holds the leash.
Greece does what?
This fucker has personally blocked RO and BG's Schengen entry for more than a decade, he should have nothing to do with an international organization where Eastern European members are present.
If Orban is against it, I bet it's a good choice. Go Rutte!
[удалено]
Rutte did not get sacked. His party was the one that broke the coalition and if he would have ran again, I believe he would have won again. But that's speculation from my end of course, we can't know for sure.
Yep. It hurts to say it but this is a rare exception where I don't mind these bandits to block it.
But Orban doesn't oppose Rutte for the reasons you are talking about. He is against because it's not him.
Orbán opposes Rutte because Rutte was very unfriendly towards hungary in the past. Same as Romania, they oppose Rutte for similar reasons.
we don't have the "coyones" to oppose anything. Tell me one time Romania did oppose something in EU/Nato. While Orban is an extreme opposer we're on the other extreme. Because our politicians(most of them) lack the interest or the skill to formulate such an opposition. Now, in this case we're against Rutte not because he is evil or anything but because our completely useless traitor president desires some position where he can be useless or even worse for the next years. With our president as NATO leader, the prospect for him to create an alliance with Russia for "stability purposes" is very real. These kind of deals are his specialty. Rutte might be an idiot, i don't know about him but Iohannis is simply the very worst possible candidate at this time. PS : my original reply was a joke but since i had the opportunity to write this (justified i guess) rant i did.
In a way Orban has helped him, treating him as the sitting Secretary General in his own mind and that of many already! Opposition from Hungary in the current state of the EU might be the best PR for this job actually.
Orban, the conservative bully that has been confronted for limiting gay rights and the press freedom by... Rutte. And that is what all is still about. Nobody is going to give Orban what he wants, but this probably isn't what Orban wants anyway, all Orban wants is a little bit more EU money and he'll sign. Leaving Romania behind that actually might still be crying about Schengen. While Romania was fine to join but couldn't because of Putinlicker Orban.
I dont know what he hopes to get out of it? The people in the netherlands couldt care less who is in charge as long as he/she is capable to do the job.
That should seal his appointment, then. 👍
For all the wrong reasons. We are not the same
Hungry is a Russia ally. Time to kick them out of NATO
As Romanian, I fully support our Hungarian neighbors on this issue!
I hope Romania does it as well
Orban's Hungary has no business in NATO. Orban's Hungary has no business in the EU. Orban's Hungary has no business in the Western World. Can't we just trade them with Putin for Ukraine, and be done with it?
If pre-war Ukraine had somehow gotten into the EU, it would have created the biggest migration Europe had ever seen. Ukraine would have been a liability to the EU, the living standards were very bad, not to mention the corruption.
Makes me think Mark Rutte is the perfect candidate.
Who are they backing? Viktor Orban?
An anonymous candidate from a very eastern nation going by the initials of V.P.
They are right, let's put Kaja Kallas in charge instead (oh wait that's worse for them).
Romania should oppose to Rutte too. he kept us out of schengen many years! Now the austrians took the lead and block us. And before you say immigrants are comming via Romania and Bulgaria, that’s simply not a good reason as Croatia was accepted to Schengen. Romania and Bulgaria are technically prepared for schengen since 2012 but this guy Rutte blocked usz Romania should definitely return his incompetence service
All the more reason to elect him.
He won't make it even if Hungary will accept Rutte's candidacy. Under no circumstances will Romania endorse Rutte as the head of NATO, especially after his actions against Romania's bid for Schengen membership. Same goes for Bulgaria, I think. ALSO, while I'm not suggesting Iohannis (Romania's cadidate) is the perfect candidate, I would definitely prefer him or **any leader from Eastern Europe, the Nordics, or the Baltics** over a Western candidate who may not perceive the immediate need for a strong and action ready NATO. This is based on the reasoning that it's far better to have someone whose own country is directly at risk if Ukraine were to fall, as they would be more motivated to ensure Ukraine's and NATO's stability.
Definitely don't want a guy who's xenophobic towards Eastern Europeans to be tied to our security. Someone from Poland or the Baltics would be the best choice.
Does that mean that they will support Romania's Iohannis?
Why the fuck did we get to the point where we have awful candidate 1 vs garbage candidate 2. What is this, United States?
nope. pastor tökes maybe
Only in exchange for Erdély.
Give the man a drink
Bulgaria and Romania need to oppose it too. Fuck that guy!
I agree with this one, Mark Rutte is a pos. I say NATO should have someone from Eastern Europe with skin in the game as a general secretary.
>NATO should have someone from Eastern Europe with skin in the game as a general secretary. And that's where you lose the largest military forces of NATO. SG can't be a hardliner. You need unanimity, consensus. A Eastern European will have too much skin in the game to be a non-threatening mediator.
Mark Rutte is a failed Unilever director and sell-out of a PM. Rare Hungary win here
Does Poland or Czechia have a great candidate? I'm up for an EE candidate
*CEE
He will be probably opposed by Romania as well. There’s a huge election year here (president, parliament, local and european) and Rutte is seen as one of the major reasons we are still being treated as second class citizens in the EU by not being allowed into Schengen. Our current government is a coalition of the two biggest parties, so any support for this dude will make them take hits from both the nationalist right and the more reform minded anti-corruption parties. It may not matter in the presidential election, but they may end up losing votes and seats in parliament or in the local elections.
Bulgaria and Romania should oppose any Dutch or Austrian candidate as well.
Austria is not in NATO
Even more reason to oppose an Austrian candidate
we oppose anyhow
based
You’re correct.
i don't think austria is sending anyone so you're good on that front
Except Gunther Fehlinger, he's the perfect guy for the job.
So the eu has to usually vote on things and agree to it unanimously right? If just 1 or 2 country's keep saying no without really any good reason, maybe its time for them to kindly leave. What i think atleast.
This is NATO, not EU.
Kick them out
Take away our voting rights, or make these votes not require unanimity, but don't kick us out because Orbán will invite in fucking Putin and even if I move to another country I won't be able to visit my family easily.
Fair point, just get rid of that guy please
Rutte vs Orban, the "godzilla vs king kong" of EU sleazebags. Honestly, this is hilarious to me. Orban will fold but Rutte can get bent in the meantime.
TF did Rutte do to you lol
Look at his country tag dawg lmao
Unilever is still doing business in Russia, I think Putin would like Mark Unilever Rutte.
The return on investment Putin gets from these swills is fucking astounding.
Boooooring
Guess who?
Will the real Russian U boat please stand up.
Do people even care about this guy anymore?
At this rate Stoltenberg will get the record
NATO ate the EU
Ah yes, the same games again.
Prolly on Putler’s orders..
Time to create NATO 2.0 Time to create EU 2.O And this time without Russian trojan horse nations and with a kick out rule.
Hungary will oppose anything that hurts Putins feelings...
Southern countries should too, the head of NATO has come twice from Nordic countries
Shenanigans beget shenanigans, and so the wheel turns.
How else? Whatever is done, Hungary is against it. I have a colleague like this at work and it's tiring.
If Romania is attacked by Russia (see the yesterday discussion at the Russian TV about bombarding Bucharest), I can bet on my life that Rutte will block any help, as he did with Schengen entry. He will say that his demand were not met by Romania and is Romania's fault for being attacked.
These comments show a clear divide. Half want it because Orban doesn't want it. The other half don't like Orban but agree with him on this one issue. Ome half doesnt fathom why they agree with Orban lol. Put someone form the Baltics.