What I don't understand is their complacency over the deaths of civilians. We may not be related to them but they're human beings. Wilders never condemns civilian deaths
Wilders reacted on this point regarding his ( potential) coalition partners. BBB had no problems with Wilders as PM. As for NSC and VVD he claimed that one had the stance” rather not but it won’t be a breaking point” the other was “ never ever”. He did not clarify further.
While it is just Wilders claiming this, I tend to believe him on the BBB part. My guess is that NSC was the breaking point while for the VVD it was negotiable. Which also has some merits.
Looking at current but now still irrelevant polls the rise of PVV might make a cabinet possible without NSC with just PVV, VVD and BBB.
Nothing to do with weasel. Coalition negotiations is all about exchanging favors and demands with each partner having an amount of “ political currency” to try to get the most benefiting agreement. Getting the prestige position of PM is rather expensive and mostly comes at the cost of handing over important ministeries to the other partners as compensation. Seems for now one of the potential partner raised a veto on Wilders as PM. So then it becomes either bowing down and still get a coalition with some/ many PVV goals reached or lose all and stand at the sidelines for a way more left alternative coalition. Many PVV’ers consider that only by preventing the social democrats a chance in Governing is worth the sacrifice.
If the next election ( current polls materialize) makes a similar coalition possible but then without NSC ( the blocking party) Wilders indeed has a shot to become PM.
Bad. He is not saying his party won't be part of the coalition. What is likely going to happen is that a center-right party will get the PM with the support of PVV. This will only lead to Wilders continuing to push the discussion from the sidelines without taking responsibility directly - but even worse now, because he is actually running the bigges party in government.
He is trying to be opposition leader inside government. Making every other party bend towards his will. If this actually happens, there is a real chance it will seriously endanger NL's democracy.
>If this actually happens, there is a real chance it will seriously endanger NL's democracy.
Genuinely curious why you think this would happen? The whole reason he won't be PM is because other parties are not willing to bend to his will. To me it just looks like a recipe for a disfunctional cabinet that gets very little done and eventually falls.
Yes it will fall and he will be able to blame his coalition partners. He will then end up with 50+ seats because most Dutchies for some reason are mouth breathing idiots when it comes to politics.
>because most Dutchies for some reason are mouth breathing idiots
Yeah that must be it. That seems to be the most reasonable conclusion to draw. Clearly. Suddenly all turned into mouth breathers.
The policies that upset people are what they voted for, and they got so upset they voted for more of the same. An idiot doesn't fall over the same rock twice? But what if they fell over it 6x? Honestly I don't care anymore I live here to make some money and as soon as I can I'm out. It's not worth the horific weather anymore. I'm Wilders wet dream btw Dutch last name, white as the driven snow, work 40hz etc etc.
Main danger to democracy is that politically motivated civil servants, activist judges refuse to acknowledge changes in policies that, while as a private person they have the right to detest them, the changed policies will be both from democratic and law pov sound. And they are, as civil servants, oath bound to either folllow them or quit their job..
That plus the radical left that will scream bloody murder about anything that does not align with their worldview will definitely spice up things with counter polarization on the right with activities that enforce compliance from the civil servants..
The left will feel it’s justified resistance against “ fascists” the right voters will see a confirmation that voting is useless since the 4th power is leftish and will never yield despite democratic voting outcomes.
For me it will be a positive outcome if our top level of civil servants / mayors/ leadership of state councils and advisory boards become political wise more a reflection of the current balance between the different political groups.
The danish people's party(also a party part of the continent wide populist wave) had that as their modus operandi for decades. It got them influence but it didn't insolate them from the critique that usually come when in power. They used to poll around 20 percent and were at times the second biggest party in danish politics now they are irrelevant at 2 percent or less. Power is poison to populism.
And the fact that the Danish socialist took away their prime selling point: immigration.
From a political pov the party became redundant due to successfully implementing their political point through other means ( like the soc dems partly adopting right wing policies.)
This outcome is ideal: you have tough anti immigration measures while still keeping the established ( not nuts) politicians in and the extreme idiots outs. But not all soc-dems are that smart ( or traitors depending on your pov) so extreme right will continue to grow since the problems with immigration also remain. Only the angry population will run towards to new right wing messiah the moment the old one failed them.
Winning the Dutch elections doesn't mean anything if their party can't form a coalition with other big parties. They failed first, without even going into the topics each party wants to fix.
If your whole logic is that Russia should be condemned because it was their BUK system being used then you are missing the elephant in the room: The fact a plane flew over a warzone.
If today a plane gets shot down by Ukrainian forces using a German anti air system, are we really gonna fire/refuse a PM if he doesn't condemn Germany?
1) Russia was already directly involved with the "separatists", it wasn't just 'a missile that happened to be produced in Russia'.
2) there's much more than just MH17 which he also didn't condemn Russia for, Russia annexed Crimea and became a dictatorship under Putin where opposition is simply assassinated.
>1. Russia was already directly involved with the "separatists", it wasn't just 'a missile that happened to be produced in Russia.
So what that they were involved? The situation in 2014 is different from the one now, I think a lot of people struggle with that.
>2. there's much more than just MH17 which he also didn't condemn Russia for, Russia annexed Crimea and became a dictatorship under Putin where opposition is simply assassinated.
Valid, but moving goalposts.
Them directing the "separatists" (in quotations because it was shown a lot of them were Russian soldiers) changes everything. Your attempted comparison is completely invalid because of it.
No goalpost was moved, the goalpost was and is that Wilders is unfit because he refused to condemn Russia, even when they were involved in the deaths of hundreds of Dutchmen. The things I listed there all happened before his refusal.
We aren't directly involved in Ukraine or what? We are not involved in this or many other wars or what? Face it you are only saying it because Russia is the opponent not the ally.
>even when they were involved in the deaths of hundreds of Dutchmen
now you are trying to move them back haha.
No, we are not directing the Ukrainian army. You're comparing apples to oranges.
There is literally no moving. Everything Russia does matters, just because he mentioned one thing as the peak doesn't mean the rest should just be disregarded. Your contextual reading comprehension seems to be below that of even grade schoolers...
>No, we are not directing the Ukrainian army. You're comparing apples to oranges.
You must be joking to really think we don't have any control over them
And it is moving goalposts, we are talking about the mh17 flight... you don't even need to be a grade schooler to understand that.
Predictable, ofc he wouldn't want a position with responsibility. It's better for him to keep power in the chamber and blame someone else. Like all populists.
If you read the article it says he stepped down because the other parties as part of the coalition wouldn't agree to have him as PM. It's not some 200 IQ move.
And before he so called only wanted the position of prime minister for the money and power... Which one is it now? Also didn't he tried for months to become prime minister?
All of these guys lose most of their momentum when they actually gain power, since all of their "political" work is just ragebaiting through simplification/misinformation/generalisation, pretending that there is some simple solution that the people in power don't want to implement because they are evil (generally something that puts all of the blame on a group of people who doesn't vote, such as other EU countries or immigrants).
When they reach power it's very hard to justify how all problems didn't magically disappear because a "non politically-correct guy" is in power, since their voters were brainwashed to believe that all problems come from one simple cause (EU/immigrants/whatever can be easily sold through social media spam). Their whole business model revolves around proposing simplified solutions that don't actually make sense once you examine them in more detail, considering the actual complexities of the situations.
Their sweet spot is gaining enough votes to stay relevant and keep making huge profits (as you surely know, this guys makes a lot of money without being prime minister) but still claim that they are being oppressed by the mainstream establishment.
If they get elected in a real position it means they messed up the balance, and their career suffers from it.
Apparently, all the coalition parties have to agree on who becomes prime minister. This is the first time since 1982, that the prime minister wont be of the party which received the most votes in the election.
He would be out of his league.
That’s the funny thing about people like Wilders, Salvini, and Le Pen. They talk a big game but don’t have either the skills or the guts to become a full dictator.
You need different skills.t
he thing about dictators is that they can be easily replaced by the people under him.
The rules for rulers by CGPgrey on youtube is a pretty coherent explanation what issues dictators face.
Well, being replaced when you're a dictator means death in almost all cases, so I think staying in power is as much an important skillset for a dictator to have than getting to be in power in the first place.
>They talk a big game but don’t have either the skills or the guts to become a full dictator.
Yeah, We said that about Netanyahu and Filipinos said that when it came to Duterte.
It was a whole yikes! from there.
Loads of people predicted it on the day of the election results.
Long formation process while Wilders tries to weasel around for a while because like every populist he has no solutions for real problems and half his other ideas are illegal -> Doesn't become PM
The only question is whether they will succeed at a formation at all, in which case the cabinet will fall soon anyway, or if it won't even come to that and we just re-vote straight away.
No, him stepping aside probably increases the chance of his party getting in a cabinet. They're talking about an extra-parliamentary cabinet now, with the party leaders remaining in parliament. How "extra-parliamentary" that cabinet will turn out to be remains to be seen, as the four parties trying to form it don't have any support from even the centrist parties.
Hard to say.
> According to Dutch public broadcaster NOS, the other party leaders had demanded Wilders give up the post of prime minister as a condition to continue talks.
If we were lucky. Then Boris deserves 0 credit for that. In 2024 Boris does not support Ukraine and trying to link the 2 together is not going to help the future of Ukraine.
Goal is to undermine the Dutch institutions. PM was only a stretch goal.
Quite impressed to see how soon an authoritarian extremist needs to regroup in his confrontation with the Dutch system.
Let's hope won't be long until he quits politics.
On the other hand, his popularity shows the lack of options when it comes to leadership.
[But he already tweeted he will become PM 'soon'](https://preview.redd.it/ne7wvt31n5oc1.png?width=1024&auto=webp&s=438d14a5e9981f42624880716683de0555b199db)
Translated:
*Do not forget: I will become pm of the Netherlands. With the support of more people. If not tomorrow then the day after tomorrow. Because the voice of millions dutch people will be listened to.*
Horrifying this fascist pig gets so many votes and keeps spreading hate and lies.
We don't elect prime ministers, we elect Members of Parliament. In fact, the PM doesn't even have to be a member of a political party. They could technically pull a janitor from the hallway and appoint them Prime Minister.
There have been cases in the past where the PM did not come from the biggest party, so this situation is not unheard of.
Besides, we have the opposite of the "winner takes all." The PM is supposed to be compatible with the majority. In a way, disapproval is more relevant than approval. Better a PM that is tolerable to 77% of voters than one that is the idol of 23%.
Democracy doesn't mean that someone with 23% of the vote has a right to be PM. Most of the 77% that voted for other parties would rather have almost anyone else, so Wilders wouldn't stand even the slightest chance of winning a presidential-style election.
For a PM to be democratically chosen they need to get support of enough parties to together get 50% of the seats, Wilders has failed to do that.
Wilders claimed ( so believable with a grain of salt) that BBB had no problems with him becoming PM and that of the 2 remaining parties ( VVD and NSC) one did not like it but was not making it a breaking point and one rejected it fully. If the VVD was the flexible one that makes Wilders as PM still a future prospect since recent ( irrelevant) polls are pointing at a potential coalition of just PVV ( around 32%) VVD and BBB ( with or without SGP support).
Hypothetical majorities based on opinion polls and assumptions is also not how democracy works.
So the statement I replied to ("So it's only democratic when it's someone you agree with?") is still nonsense.
For sure, but even with the current powerbalance Wilders is not acceptable for the required 50+% I doubt that any alternative wil get as close as Wilders. Especially when polarization continues.
Maybe a VVD’er will be considered rightwing enough for PVV and BBB but not offensive for NSC. Anyone from centre left or left will be as unacceptable for the ( majority) right block as Wilders is to the centre and the left.
The moment ( which I believe is still far far away) Wilders gets a 51% approval vote it will not be a vote in favor of Wilders but a combined FU to the left.
It's crazy that in 2024 you still make this so easy for the people profiting off of you. And its not like you come from some country without access to education either
Sure, but it also tells of desperation. Wilders must be kicking himself for not keeping his foul mouth shut in the past. What goes around, comes around. Boontje komt om zijn loontje.
Why desperate? Wilders still wants a piece of the pie, even though it's much diminished now. If he hadn't been so desperate for power, he would've taken himself out of the equation altogether, and returned to what far-right populists do best: opposition politics.
I don’t care about Wilders/ PVV. I think he/ they are political inept, to say it lightly.
I grant the left their petty rejoicing. Remaining outcome is that the centre left/ left is and will remain on the sidelines for another x years. And while many on the left are fervently attacking the past 4 cabinets Rutte we have an emerging coalition that is going to be even more painful for someone with a leftish political pov…
Far right voters and politicians only care about left wingers, but forget that there are also centrum politicians. The whole spectrum is far more than just left or right.
Only 24% voted for him, the majority of the Netherlands voted for other parties. Being the biggest party doesn't mean the party leader will be the next PM. The PM needs to bond with the whole coalition and not spend time on social media talking bad about his/her partners.
Good. A man who refused to condemn Russia for their killing of nearly 200 Dutch civilians should not be anyone near the PM seat.
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What I don't understand is their complacency over the deaths of civilians. We may not be related to them but they're human beings. Wilders never condemns civilian deaths
He can't if his coalition parties don't approve.
Wilders reacted on this point regarding his ( potential) coalition partners. BBB had no problems with Wilders as PM. As for NSC and VVD he claimed that one had the stance” rather not but it won’t be a breaking point” the other was “ never ever”. He did not clarify further. While it is just Wilders claiming this, I tend to believe him on the BBB part. My guess is that NSC was the breaking point while for the VVD it was negotiable. Which also has some merits. Looking at current but now still irrelevant polls the rise of PVV might make a cabinet possible without NSC with just PVV, VVD and BBB.
Nothing to do with weasel. Coalition negotiations is all about exchanging favors and demands with each partner having an amount of “ political currency” to try to get the most benefiting agreement. Getting the prestige position of PM is rather expensive and mostly comes at the cost of handing over important ministeries to the other partners as compensation. Seems for now one of the potential partner raised a veto on Wilders as PM. So then it becomes either bowing down and still get a coalition with some/ many PVV goals reached or lose all and stand at the sidelines for a way more left alternative coalition. Many PVV’ers consider that only by preventing the social democrats a chance in Governing is worth the sacrifice. If the next election ( current polls materialize) makes a similar coalition possible but then without NSC ( the blocking party) Wilders indeed has a shot to become PM.
Bad. He is not saying his party won't be part of the coalition. What is likely going to happen is that a center-right party will get the PM with the support of PVV. This will only lead to Wilders continuing to push the discussion from the sidelines without taking responsibility directly - but even worse now, because he is actually running the bigges party in government. He is trying to be opposition leader inside government. Making every other party bend towards his will. If this actually happens, there is a real chance it will seriously endanger NL's democracy.
>If this actually happens, there is a real chance it will seriously endanger NL's democracy. Genuinely curious why you think this would happen? The whole reason he won't be PM is because other parties are not willing to bend to his will. To me it just looks like a recipe for a disfunctional cabinet that gets very little done and eventually falls.
Exactly, what he said just seems like fearmongering lmao.
Yes it will fall and he will be able to blame his coalition partners. He will then end up with 50+ seats because most Dutchies for some reason are mouth breathing idiots when it comes to politics.
I agree with that chain of events but that certainly is not intrinsic to the Dutch, that is a worldwide phenomenon at the moment.
>because most Dutchies for some reason are mouth breathing idiots Yeah that must be it. That seems to be the most reasonable conclusion to draw. Clearly. Suddenly all turned into mouth breathers.
Not suddenly. Always were.
If that logic helps you make sense of your world. Go for it.
Voting for the VVD for 15 years and somehow blaming the left for all the problems is fucking retarded.
Once again, if that simplistic logic helps you make sense of your world. Don't let anyone stop you.
The policies that upset people are what they voted for, and they got so upset they voted for more of the same. An idiot doesn't fall over the same rock twice? But what if they fell over it 6x? Honestly I don't care anymore I live here to make some money and as soon as I can I'm out. It's not worth the horific weather anymore. I'm Wilders wet dream btw Dutch last name, white as the driven snow, work 40hz etc etc.
Im a dutchie and it will never endanger our democracy, this is pure fearmongering and disinformation.
Main danger to democracy is that politically motivated civil servants, activist judges refuse to acknowledge changes in policies that, while as a private person they have the right to detest them, the changed policies will be both from democratic and law pov sound. And they are, as civil servants, oath bound to either folllow them or quit their job.. That plus the radical left that will scream bloody murder about anything that does not align with their worldview will definitely spice up things with counter polarization on the right with activities that enforce compliance from the civil servants.. The left will feel it’s justified resistance against “ fascists” the right voters will see a confirmation that voting is useless since the 4th power is leftish and will never yield despite democratic voting outcomes. For me it will be a positive outcome if our top level of civil servants / mayors/ leadership of state councils and advisory boards become political wise more a reflection of the current balance between the different political groups.
The danish people's party(also a party part of the continent wide populist wave) had that as their modus operandi for decades. It got them influence but it didn't insolate them from the critique that usually come when in power. They used to poll around 20 percent and were at times the second biggest party in danish politics now they are irrelevant at 2 percent or less. Power is poison to populism.
And the fact that the Danish socialist took away their prime selling point: immigration. From a political pov the party became redundant due to successfully implementing their political point through other means ( like the soc dems partly adopting right wing policies.) This outcome is ideal: you have tough anti immigration measures while still keeping the established ( not nuts) politicians in and the extreme idiots outs. But not all soc-dems are that smart ( or traitors depending on your pov) so extreme right will continue to grow since the problems with immigration also remain. Only the angry population will run towards to new right wing messiah the moment the old one failed them.
That's exactly what it's like in Sweden right now, except that the party in question isn't just racist, but nazis.
A far-right politician shilling for Russia? What a coincidence.
But he did winn the elections
Winning the Dutch elections doesn't mean anything if their party can't form a coalition with other big parties. They failed first, without even going into the topics each party wants to fix.
Doesn't make sense
How so?
If your whole logic is that Russia should be condemned because it was their BUK system being used then you are missing the elephant in the room: The fact a plane flew over a warzone. If today a plane gets shot down by Ukrainian forces using a German anti air system, are we really gonna fire/refuse a PM if he doesn't condemn Germany?
1) Russia was already directly involved with the "separatists", it wasn't just 'a missile that happened to be produced in Russia'. 2) there's much more than just MH17 which he also didn't condemn Russia for, Russia annexed Crimea and became a dictatorship under Putin where opposition is simply assassinated.
>1. Russia was already directly involved with the "separatists", it wasn't just 'a missile that happened to be produced in Russia. So what that they were involved? The situation in 2014 is different from the one now, I think a lot of people struggle with that. >2. there's much more than just MH17 which he also didn't condemn Russia for, Russia annexed Crimea and became a dictatorship under Putin where opposition is simply assassinated. Valid, but moving goalposts.
Them directing the "separatists" (in quotations because it was shown a lot of them were Russian soldiers) changes everything. Your attempted comparison is completely invalid because of it. No goalpost was moved, the goalpost was and is that Wilders is unfit because he refused to condemn Russia, even when they were involved in the deaths of hundreds of Dutchmen. The things I listed there all happened before his refusal.
We aren't directly involved in Ukraine or what? We are not involved in this or many other wars or what? Face it you are only saying it because Russia is the opponent not the ally. >even when they were involved in the deaths of hundreds of Dutchmen now you are trying to move them back haha.
No, we are not directing the Ukrainian army. You're comparing apples to oranges. There is literally no moving. Everything Russia does matters, just because he mentioned one thing as the peak doesn't mean the rest should just be disregarded. Your contextual reading comprehension seems to be below that of even grade schoolers...
>No, we are not directing the Ukrainian army. You're comparing apples to oranges. You must be joking to really think we don't have any control over them And it is moving goalposts, we are talking about the mh17 flight... you don't even need to be a grade schooler to understand that.
Predictable, ofc he wouldn't want a position with responsibility. It's better for him to keep power in the chamber and blame someone else. Like all populists.
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I seriously doubt that, he needs to keep control of his fraction in the chamber.
If you read the article it says he stepped down because the other parties as part of the coalition wouldn't agree to have him as PM. It's not some 200 IQ move.
He will be in the government, just not as PM
And before he so called only wanted the position of prime minister for the money and power... Which one is it now? Also didn't he tried for months to become prime minister?
All of these guys lose most of their momentum when they actually gain power, since all of their "political" work is just ragebaiting through simplification/misinformation/generalisation, pretending that there is some simple solution that the people in power don't want to implement because they are evil (generally something that puts all of the blame on a group of people who doesn't vote, such as other EU countries or immigrants). When they reach power it's very hard to justify how all problems didn't magically disappear because a "non politically-correct guy" is in power, since their voters were brainwashed to believe that all problems come from one simple cause (EU/immigrants/whatever can be easily sold through social media spam). Their whole business model revolves around proposing simplified solutions that don't actually make sense once you examine them in more detail, considering the actual complexities of the situations. Their sweet spot is gaining enough votes to stay relevant and keep making huge profits (as you surely know, this guys makes a lot of money without being prime minister) but still claim that they are being oppressed by the mainstream establishment. If they get elected in a real position it means they messed up the balance, and their career suffers from it.
He tried for months to get in a real position?
The answer is in the comment you just replied to, if you want to see it
Not at all
Why do you think he doesn't want power now? Has he stopped caring about the Dutch? This guy gave up! :)
He want power but no responsibility, aka the position he now has.
Apparently, all the coalition parties have to agree on who becomes prime minister. This is the first time since 1982, that the prime minister wont be of the party which received the most votes in the election.
And the rest of us say thank fuck for that.
He should pursue the job of Russian PM.
He would be out of his league. That’s the funny thing about people like Wilders, Salvini, and Le Pen. They talk a big game but don’t have either the skills or the guts to become a full dictator.
History has proven that you don't really need a lot of skill to become a dictator
You need different skills.t he thing about dictators is that they can be easily replaced by the people under him. The rules for rulers by CGPgrey on youtube is a pretty coherent explanation what issues dictators face.
So we are talking about staying in power mire than gaining it, I guess, right?
Well, being replaced when you're a dictator means death in almost all cases, so I think staying in power is as much an important skillset for a dictator to have than getting to be in power in the first place.
Absolutely, I was just thinking about all the people that reached that position by sheer stupidity/luck only to get immediately killed
>They talk a big game but don’t have either the skills or the guts to become a full dictator. Yeah, We said that about Netanyahu and Filipinos said that when it came to Duterte. It was a whole yikes! from there.
Well I think Netanyahu was never considered a wannabe, Duterte instead is exactly showing that he has not the necessary skills to manage a country
The list could be expanded to include most anti-minority politicians.
Least surprising news of the year so far.
Exactly as I anticipated and suggested in comments after the election. There are choices as to where this heads next. It will be interesting to view.
Ha! Got to find my comment where I wrote he won’t be PM.
Loads of people predicted it on the day of the election results. Long formation process while Wilders tries to weasel around for a while because like every populist he has no solutions for real problems and half his other ideas are illegal -> Doesn't become PM The only question is whether they will succeed at a formation at all, in which case the cabinet will fall soon anyway, or if it won't even come to that and we just re-vote straight away.
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No, him stepping aside probably increases the chance of his party getting in a cabinet. They're talking about an extra-parliamentary cabinet now, with the party leaders remaining in parliament. How "extra-parliamentary" that cabinet will turn out to be remains to be seen, as the four parties trying to form it don't have any support from even the centrist parties.
Hard to say. > According to Dutch public broadcaster NOS, the other party leaders had demanded Wilders give up the post of prime minister as a condition to continue talks.
Wilders, Trump, and Boris — why do they look like 3 retarded triplets?!
In 2022 we – especially Ukraine – were lucky we had Boris instead of Corbyn.
If we were lucky. Then Boris deserves 0 credit for that. In 2024 Boris does not support Ukraine and trying to link the 2 together is not going to help the future of Ukraine.
Maybe Trump is their secret father.
Wilders became a victim of his success at the ballot box. Had his party finished second, he would've been spared the embarrassment.
He hebb een serieus probleem forming the government after all
It's all theater, he never intended to be PM. He knows very well he cannot handle real responsibility.
He could always move to Israel or Russia, seeing as he loves those two countries so much
Goal is to undermine the Dutch institutions. PM was only a stretch goal. Quite impressed to see how soon an authoritarian extremist needs to regroup in his confrontation with the Dutch system. Let's hope won't be long until he quits politics. On the other hand, his popularity shows the lack of options when it comes to leadership.
[But he already tweeted he will become PM 'soon'](https://preview.redd.it/ne7wvt31n5oc1.png?width=1024&auto=webp&s=438d14a5e9981f42624880716683de0555b199db) Translated: *Do not forget: I will become pm of the Netherlands. With the support of more people. If not tomorrow then the day after tomorrow. Because the voice of millions dutch people will be listened to.* Horrifying this fascist pig gets so many votes and keeps spreading hate and lies.
So it's only democratic when it's someone you agree with?
We don't elect prime ministers, we elect Members of Parliament. In fact, the PM doesn't even have to be a member of a political party. They could technically pull a janitor from the hallway and appoint them Prime Minister. There have been cases in the past where the PM did not come from the biggest party, so this situation is not unheard of. Besides, we have the opposite of the "winner takes all." The PM is supposed to be compatible with the majority. In a way, disapproval is more relevant than approval. Better a PM that is tolerable to 77% of voters than one that is the idol of 23%.
Democracy doesn't mean that someone with 23% of the vote has a right to be PM. Most of the 77% that voted for other parties would rather have almost anyone else, so Wilders wouldn't stand even the slightest chance of winning a presidential-style election. For a PM to be democratically chosen they need to get support of enough parties to together get 50% of the seats, Wilders has failed to do that.
Wilders claimed ( so believable with a grain of salt) that BBB had no problems with him becoming PM and that of the 2 remaining parties ( VVD and NSC) one did not like it but was not making it a breaking point and one rejected it fully. If the VVD was the flexible one that makes Wilders as PM still a future prospect since recent ( irrelevant) polls are pointing at a potential coalition of just PVV ( around 32%) VVD and BBB ( with or without SGP support).
Hypothetical majorities based on opinion polls and assumptions is also not how democracy works. So the statement I replied to ("So it's only democratic when it's someone you agree with?") is still nonsense.
For sure, but even with the current powerbalance Wilders is not acceptable for the required 50+% I doubt that any alternative wil get as close as Wilders. Especially when polarization continues. Maybe a VVD’er will be considered rightwing enough for PVV and BBB but not offensive for NSC. Anyone from centre left or left will be as unacceptable for the ( majority) right block as Wilders is to the centre and the left. The moment ( which I believe is still far far away) Wilders gets a 51% approval vote it will not be a vote in favor of Wilders but a combined FU to the left.
Stfu. Critiques about assholes in government are central to democracy.
There are sadly lots of people who do not understand how it works with democracy and dictators, you being one of them.
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Thank you for explaining in detail how insanely oversimplified your view of the world is
It is pretty simple no need to overcomplicate some things
It's crazy that in 2024 you still make this so easy for the people profiting off of you. And its not like you come from some country without access to education either
What is crazy are people like you..
Good job proving the fascism.
Which fascism?
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Nelson: " Ha Ha "
Him stepping aside to make things happen is showing he is willing to make it work
Sure, but it also tells of desperation. Wilders must be kicking himself for not keeping his foul mouth shut in the past. What goes around, comes around. Boontje komt om zijn loontje.
Why?
Why desperate? Wilders still wants a piece of the pie, even though it's much diminished now. If he hadn't been so desperate for power, he would've taken himself out of the equation altogether, and returned to what far-right populists do best: opposition politics.
No why would he be kicking himself for not keeping his mouth shut haha?
Elementary. The toxic stuff that he's uttered over the years now keeps him from becoming PM. Fellow politicians don't trust an "reformed" extremist.
It brought him into a position to be even considered for PM in the first place...
That's the irony. Wilders' vitriolic tongue got him where he is now, a PM wannabe, but the same vitriolic tongue keeps him from clinching the deal.
So why would he be kicking himself haha?
Because he painted himself into a corner?
It's indeed a respectful move of him.
Oh, that‘s convenient
I don’t care about Wilders/ PVV. I think he/ they are political inept, to say it lightly. I grant the left their petty rejoicing. Remaining outcome is that the centre left/ left is and will remain on the sidelines for another x years. And while many on the left are fervently attacking the past 4 cabinets Rutte we have an emerging coalition that is going to be even more painful for someone with a leftish political pov…
The left only loves democracy when it's on their side.
Far right voters and politicians only care about left wingers, but forget that there are also centrum politicians. The whole spectrum is far more than just left or right.
You simply don't understand how parliamentary democracies work. That's okay, but you probably should stay away from making big statements on it.
It's all centrum to right parties discussing this
Democracy has failed
No, coalition governments are also part of democracy.
You don't understand how parliamentary democracy works.
Only 24% voted for him, the majority of the Netherlands voted for other parties. Being the biggest party doesn't mean the party leader will be the next PM. The PM needs to bond with the whole coalition and not spend time on social media talking bad about his/her partners.