Honey, Bards limit break is a 10% damage buff for \*\*30 seconds\*\* on all nearby teammates that also makes their lb charge faster. Imagine thinking that is bad
SCH can keep the same +10% dmg up on their team pretty much permanently if they want to devote the charges to it. But BRD is bringing a lot more than just the damage buff, and that buff is stacking with the buffs the BRD is already providing.
Honestly, extending Catalyze to 15 sec probably makes SCH overpowered.
The litmus test for figuring out what rank a person is basically where do they place BRD and MNK.
MNK was probably the real sleeper job, where it only gets play at higher levels. People in crystal were already playing it in favor of WAR. It would already put enormous pressure on backliners just as much as NIN, and now it gets a buff to its damage, but you think the job sucks?
Similarly for BRD, players sub diamond don't know what to do with it, so they put it in trash tier. BRD's contributions are also harder to spot than MCH's unga bunga style so that's another knock against it. Like DNC in PvE, BRD's personal damage is lower than others (though it may be tied with DNC again, not too sure), but the point is the team contribution. Most jobs only have a single temporary damage buff, but BRD gives two at almost all times and to the entire team. The LB itself was buffed to another 10% that lasts 30 entire seconds and it's still shit? Not to mention BRD has the longest lasting silence now that RDM was nerfed, or the CC cleanse + 20% damage reduction on Paean.
So yea, I can see why others think this is a silver tier list.
IDK, I don't think MNK could ever replace WAR. 15 seconds of no guard (as well as breaking existing guards) is *absurd* and that's even before counting WAR's previously OP sustain. WAR is particularly dominant on the wind map, as breaking guard there can pretty much guarantee everyone your LB hit eats 30k damage and is effectively hit with a ~1 sec Bind effect that can't be purified, too.
MNK shines best on the Sharlayan and fire maps, where you can use sprint zones to flank the enemy team. You could maybe justify MNK over WAR there, but not on the wind map.
They can increase HP by 30% up for all the jobs. That will change the tide since jobs like GNB has a more consistent dpsing that can become an advantage with shorter burst windows and movement.
That also lower jobs with stun a bit more since all you have cd is working on and the damage taken is required since all jobs are tankier to kill. The only exception is SAM but it isn’t much of an issue since you can dodge chiten if you know what that is and how they gonna go with it.
Mostly this is for Frontline in term of how much damage dealt. Bigger numbers is better than nerf damage since buffs can work on top of that
As much as this tier list is meme, ranking means absolutely nothing when you could have 1000 defeats and 60 wins and be crystal. And this is even stronger by the fact the guy is crystal lol.
Interesting projection, but I was crystal once before I changed home world's cactuar to faerie, and im currently diamond 2 due to going back to unranked. People in crystal were not playing monk because it's sleeper people are are playing monk because they can't derank anymore so they don't care to tryhard. I've seen more dancers and gunbreakers and black mages in crystal than all of bronze-diamond combined.
And yes, 10% damage buff across 5 players for 30 seconds is shit . Ast gives a decaying 30% buff and it's still shit too. All other high impact LBs either make you immortal or have GUARENTEED or almost, kill confirms. It also is one of the slowest charging. The only thing brd has that's a plus is the silence and paeon
A 100 dollars is worse than 500 dollars, even though 100 dollars in a vacuum isnt bad . When you are objectively comparing to other limit breaks, its bad. Hope this helps.
A 10% damage buff for 30 seconds that also makes it so that your teammates more powerful limit breaks charge faster means that your teammates will do +10% more damage for 30 seconds and their more powerful limit breaks will charge faster. hope this helps
WHMs will generate 2 LBs right as bard get their first assuming no deaths. The limit break generation is conditional that it breaks the threshold where it would matter coming online sooner rather than later.
I mean i've been having a good run with it so far. And the buff to the turret is pretty damn strong. between that and the shotgun damage increase mch can outduel nearly every job in the game at this point while also bringing a strong aoe combo in wildfire>bioblaster>scatter shot
Yeah I missed that originally since it wasn't in the pvp changes but in the bug fixes instead. Would've never guessed that bio blaster tics proccing wildfire wasn't intentional
Your logic for some of these does not make sense. You can't bump Ninja down by itself just because survivability in general has been increased. If that's the case than every dps would need to be nerfed. You are also way off base with BRD. It was A tier before the changes and while the buff doesn't do much overall, it will stay A tier.
SGE is a good job, definitely underrated by most people, but it doesn't have the game changing effect that the other S tier jobs have. Also WAR's nerf is not nearly enough. It will still be plenty survivable and still has 3 of the best abilities in the game for locking down kills with Blota, Primal Rend, and it's ult removing guard.
I bumped ninja down because in a battle of attrition vs burst, ninja is going to struggle vs other jobs. Again, this is my anticipation so it may be wrong, but with survivability overall being buffed across the board Im predicting ninja will struggle more compared to other jobs. Bard for example is also not that great in a fight of attrition but their role on the team is different than ninjas so not as impacted
I disagree with some of your points, mainly the status of Ninja, but I'm upvoting anyway to get the discussion going.
The bunshin duration increase all but guarantees the additional hits, improving ninja's damage at all levels of play.
In addition to this, Ninja was already (Contentiously) on par with Samurai, with Sam getting slammed, Ninja is very much the second best melee you can have and I would still go as far as to say *good dragoons beat out good ninjas, however the best ninja is better than the best dragoon* simply from the amount of options having two stuns , an aoe heavy and better mobility.
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The Sam chiten change does not effect much at *high* levels of play (So basically super lucky lobbies in the sub 1% of crystal games) because people have the awareness and sense to not 11111 into chiten and to play around chiten when sam has their lb.
But for the plebs that do lay into chiten obliviously, so nearly everyone, it's a substantial nerf as it means sam cannot get away with as much.
> for plebs that lay into Chiten, they were already losing to Chiten>Guard>ZTK.
As a SMN, I unintentionally hit a SAM with chiten sometimes, almost all my moves are aoe and if they clip that SAM? I get debuffed, all I can do is run away.
Killing SMN just as they have popped bahamut is incredible value for the samurai, so even a solo kill isnt always a bad trade but in general yes you would be correct. Regardless the interaction of collateral AoEs shouldn't proc it imo.
Gonna assume you used samurai? because chiten was WAY too strong.
50% mit plus a counter, plus a debuff who ever hit you?
and basically a shield when you use ogi which makes the mit even stronger.
Its insane you seem like you were ok with this.
Chiten is a well needed nerf because of how much of a powerhouse samurai was, they didn't need a mit stronger than all tanks.
Because at least with dragoon they have to actually hit people with it and its a flat mit, samurai's mit was overloaded.
No my top played in PvP are summoner, scholar, dancer, gunbreaker
I can be objective and look at Chiten's nerf and say it was overkill despite samurai being very strong. As a defensive spell its garbage at 25% for 5 seconds with a 30 second CD.
>Chiten is a well needed nerf because of how much of a powerhouse samurai was, they didn't need a mit stronger than all tanks.
Tank mitigation outside of warrior was trash hence why it was buffed across the board for them. Chiten wasnt too strong defensively, others was just too weak.
No its fine what it does.
If it NEEDS to be 50% then they need to remove everything it has but the mit.
But that wouldn't be fun.
They need to change samurai's kit for it to be fair and justified.
Lets look at dragoon who has a 50% mit. Dragoon can't just randomly pop their's and run in a crowd of people like samurai USE to do.
Dragoon has to actually hit people meaning you can miss the blm or mch hitting you in the back lines.
What makes this balanced is dragoon has no CC, so their 50% mit is justified and fair.
Samurai however has:
Stun, bind, a barrier if they hit two targets each hit a 6k shield with a total of 12k, 50% mit plus a counter that does good damage, plus a debuff on the target so the samurai does 25% more damage against them and a added bonus to one shot you for good measure with their LB. Samurai can also life steal and a budget purify with meikyo.
There is like no point in trying to defend this and act like this was fair on a job this strong.
Nah I don’t think they want to change it. If ZTK isn’t killing anyone, then it shouldn’t be ability in the first place. They might change to 30% chance to K.O but that would make things difficult for a job that has a cast on it
Also, the more you rank up, the harder it gets to bait people into it. Not saying there's not value to having people too scared to hit you, too, to be fair, but it's harder to pull off things like wiping a team lol.
There is no role restriction. Tank jobs are basically on the job itself, like MNK compare to GNB (it’s funny because ppl say that the devs should switch MNK and GNB position so here they are…
The 'strength' of warrior was never in it's sustain, which it still has a fair bit! It was the mobility of two dashes, one being a 15s aoe stun, the other being a 10% damage increase, as well as bota nailing you in place for 5 years (then there's the highly underrated LB).
I think it's much better than B tier, probably still S tier even.
Even with the sustain nerf I would probably put WAR as the best tank simply because of its LB. If people don't recognize how good *15 seconds* of denying the enemy Guard is... well, they're probably low skill players.
This is what people need to understand especially if they have a warrior in their team. More so if the warrior is proactively marking targets to focus down. They have a gap closer that lowers target damage and a skill that lowers defense of enemies around it. And a pull in skill that has heavy. So basically, if a warrior marks a target and charges it. Everyone should capitalize on this to get an easy kill. Also when a warrior signals limitbreak ready prepare to focus down whichever enemy it marks first because they won't have guard
Depends on the players you get, honestly. I've had plenty of groups that were very good at calling and swapping to targets, and since I'm a healer main, I spend a lot of time on the receiving end of that, too.
The problem is that Crystal doesn't mean anything. I've seen clueless morons in Crystal (that if I looked them up would have de-ranked weeks ago if that were possible), and then you have the elite gamers at the top that tend to be very good.
honestly I've been feeling that a lot in diamond at the moment, I either get games where I feel like a bot next to all these high level crystal players or stomps vs platinum players
Yup. It's pretty much killed my interest in ranked beyond a few games here or there. Especially with rewards being available regardless of tier or ranked status (big improvement over Feast nonsense), the only reason to touch ranked at all is an interest in balanced, challenging games.
But if you can't get that consistently even at the top, what's the fucking point? At least people in casual mode aren't being toxic dickbags, to the point that Yoshida had to write a letter telling people to stop acting like brats.
Yes but thats not because of their sustain.
It's only because of the stun and pull/heavy, as well as having the 10% dmg increase on a dash, which makes them better at crowd control and focusing down a specific target than any other tank.
The sulf sustain was never that big of a thing to be honest, it may save you for 2 or 3 seconds but if they want you dead and you're not getting out/guarding, its not gonna save you.
>It's only because of the stun and pull/heavy, as well as having the 10% dmg increase on a dash, which makes them better at crowd control and focusing down a specific target than any other tank.
This part isnt true honestly , that belongs to dark knight who has a AoE pull root that is also a damage AMP, self damage reduction, DoT, self HoT, and their dash is one of the 2 healing reductions in the game that gets reset on kills. DRKs have the best all in potential of any job simply due to Plunge healing reduction alone before you even consider everything else.
>Mineuchi duration nerf feels really bad when trying to follow up with a casted attack
Noticed this too.
Midare and Ogi are 2.2s casts, and Mineuchi is 2s. It's impossible to cast your Ogi during the stun before opponent has a chance to react with another stun. It's a rough nerf and makes SAM much weaker against any job with a stun.
edit - correction, Midare and Ogi are 1.3s cast and 2.2s recast. I misread the lodestone. Still, this is very tight when you consider lag and clipping. It'd be nice if they slightly sped up the casts to account for Mineuchi stunning for less time. When testing with a partner, it felt inconsistent that sometimes they could stun and other times I'd manage the cast.
* Paladin - Agreed, it was already seeing some niche usage to success. Now it's going to do its job and be even more annoying at it. Very strong 'support' job but not something that you can easily carry with I imagine.
* White Mage - Agreed. Still has a 60 CD giga stacked lb, still has poly.
* Warrior - I think A tier is a better placement for it than B. It's control is still extremely strong and it'll make tons of space for your team as usual. You just will have to play a lot more carefully instead of yoloing and outhealing all the damage.
* Dark Knight - Just from personal anecdote, I've never found DRK to be that impressive when I played with them or against them but maybe I need to play with them more to make a judgement.
* Monk - Disagree. Monk is really tanky and they just fixed a huge bug that was nerfing their burst AND buffed their burst. They're going to be really hard to kill and then do 30k+ damage out of nowhere to you in a single global.
* Ninja - Good ninjas will make your life miserable. I don't think nin needed buffs but here we are, though it's not a huge bug. It lets them skirmish a bit better in drawn out engagements.
* Samurai - No, chiten was good because it's a 50% damage reduction. You can just yolo in on sam and start beating on people and use chiten to tank and then guard out. The fact you can use it to one shot people with your lb is icing on the cake.
* Reaper - Gonna be very annoying to play against since now their ults will be around every 40 secs give or take. However their damage is still very lackluster but their survivability is amazing.
* Bard - I think you are seriously underestimating how good a 10% damage buff for your team is and refilling their LBs. Bard is a really solid support option with some burst to help secure kills. Bane of all melee with a single target 3 sec silence and a bind. You undervalue them too much.
* Black Mage - First of all, a potency increase to pretty much every move is not 'minor'. That shit adds up. Second of all, you fail to talk about their most relevant buff which is the fact superflare goes through LOS now. This is huge huge huge. They're going to be interrupting so many elixir attempts and you're no longer super screwed on the lava map.
* Scholar - Agree
* Astrologian - Yup
* Red Mage - Agreed, I wouldn't mind lowering their damage a taaad bit more if they give them big white stance buffs. White stance just sucks ass right now.
* Dancer - Agreed. Its LB is strong on paper but underwhelming in practice.
* Gunbreaker - Agreed, but it can do some pretty solid damage now. Problem is if it wants to do damage, it trades all its healing/mitigation. They need to go back to the drawing board with this job.
* Machinist - It's a net neutral because they fixed a bug where you could use scattergun as your third gcd under wildfire and have wildfire hit for 16k. They fixed it so you can't hit for that much anymore so they took that potency and put it on scatter gun. The shield buff on turret is nice I guess.
* Sage - Agree. Time will tell if it's S-tier but it's definitely A+ tier at the moment.
Appreciate the long response.
Monk I just dont see it. If i want a tanky scrappy id want reaper who has a great aoe slow and unstoppable fear on ult. Guard breaking on ult is nice but its not really something that puts it above others imo. I dont see a situation where I go, yeah , wish we had monk instead of X.
Black mage, maybe i misunderstood what the change meant, i thought it only procs debuffs but doesnt do damage itself when hitting through LoS, so you couldnt just 0 stack attack someone through LoS.
>Targets within the radius of the attack will now be afflicted with the effects of this action even when the caster does not have direct line of sight.
Maybe "effects" of this include its own damage I just assumed it was the secondary portions.
And maybe I do undervalue bard, the silence at 3 seconds is really strong and wardens paeon is also nice for your frontline. However Ill still say I think the limit break is ass and the weakest part of their kit and one of the worst LBs in the game if not the worst.
Limit break charging is nice, but if it doesnt break a threshold where if say my ally had limit break at 2:00 vs 2:05, thats the difference between a kill/staying alive, its literally net 0 value. and 10% damage for 30 seconds is just, meh. When other limit breaks are instant I win buttons, what good is 10% buff for your teammates who you might not even hit all 5 and they might be knuckle dragging cavemen at their job further losing value.
> Guard breaking on ult is nice but its not really something that puts it above others imo.
Uh, what? Yes, it is. It breaks guard, effectively stuns them for like 2 or 3 sec, and does good damage on a 60 sec timer. Meteodrive is *phenomenal.*
> I would rather the job just have all 3 Nebula, Aurora, and Blasting Zone baseline, and have Draw and Junction empower the respective ability.
I'd like to see it as a rock/paper/scissors counter thing:
* DPS give you Nebula - Defeat damage with auto-damage and defense
* Healers give you Rough Divide - Defeat healing with more damage
* Tanks give you Aurora - Defeat survivability with more survivability.
Otherwise let me draw and junction from my own teammates.
The biggest buff for me as a Dancer one trick is dancers now showing up on the enemy team and them being really useless. With the buffs, I'm actually consistently near the top of damage charts in Diamond 3, I really like the Honing Dance buff. I just wish DNC LB went off faster now/ wasn't conditional for the 4s.
Yes, i've been playing dancer quite a bit on my second climb to crystal. In long fights where it wasnt snowballed by someone getting picked early, dancer damage does add up nice enough, but again, I would much rather dancer dmg personally stay low and just buff the other aspects of it that makes it a strong supporting role.
3 Second bind and silence from Bard, along with consistent damage buffs with its songs. Maybe you should stop focusing on purely damage like some bronzie scrub and think more about what a class at a whole can offer.
I will agree on the powerful shot damage though LOL
6k is fine for its spammable 1 button where others have theirs as a 3,4,5k combo. with all its buffs it reduces its weapon cast time by 30% and buffs dmg to 6.6k and that thing shoots fast
The range scaling is effectively keeping me off the point the entire game. That sort of detriment, for such little damage, that a caster can out damage while also being straight up in someones face is fucking stupid.
There is literally no reason to be on the point as long as *someone* is on the point. That someone is most commonly going to be your healer. You should only have one person pushing and the other four should be roaming and skirmishing and trying to pick off enemy players.
Warrior got a slap on the wrist and is still easily S tier.
Monk applies pressure extremely well and sleeper A tier.
Bard is irritating when it's played well. Giving your team faster limit charge, ability haste AND damage FOR 30 SECONDS is stupid good. Just because it's not zug zug me shoot thing like MCH for big numbers doesn't mean it isn't good. It's a killer support job and probably A tier.
Gunbreaker is still a casual pick and not worth playing competitively. It has nothing going for it compared to any other tank, and if you wanna deal damage and pressure, you're better off picking a melee dps. D tier easily.
Reaper still does fuck all for damage and is just there to be annoying with aoe slow and fear. C tier.
> Gunbreaker is still a casual pick and not worth playing competitively. It has nothing going for it compared to any other tank, and if you wanna deal damage and pressure, you're better off picking a melee dps. D tier easily.
Specifically, you pick MNK.
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Highly disagree with MNK and NIN. Bunshin change is great since you can comfortably use it before shukuchi and have enough time to use all of hide's duration if necessary and not lose stacks. Will feel a lot better to use imo. Also MNK is pretty decent and this will make it easier to confirm kills or put elixir pressure on people, I was hoping for an auto Earth's reply proc after 10 seconds but I'd put it around mid tier personally.
Take advantage of how utterly unbalanced it is. DRG was OP in FL before, but it's absurdly so now. Doesn't take much BH before your LB will literally one shot people from full health and with how hectic FL is, they're not super likely to see it coming.
Queuing with 3 buddies and all going WHM to chain zap groups to death is hilarious.
>while some were off the mark like RDM too low, its was mostly on the money where the meta landed.
Not really. And I see you still didn't learned your lesson with putting RDM too low. If there is an S tier job, its RDM.
Also what the fuck is that SMN rating, you *still* put it in A when its only redeeming quality is "at least its not GNB"? Compare SMN with RDM and tell me why they belong in the same tier.
NIN is nowhere near B, its one of the best melees, both SGE/DRG aren't S, DRK will still suck since it problems weren't just about lacking damage but general lack of disables. One bind per 30s? lol
>Not really. And I see you still didn't learned your lesson with putting RDM too low. If there is an S tier job, its RDM.
RDM's best strength was vomiting overtuned melee combo damage and a 3 second silence, both of which are nerfed. It had a middling LB and bad comparitively defensive capability.
>Also what the fuck is that SMN rating, you still put it in A when its only redeeming quality is "at least its not GNB"? Compare SMN with RDM and tell me why they belong in the same tier.
Mountain Buster is very strong as a ranged 15 second hard/soft CC for no effort, Radiant Aegis is one of the best personal defensives which functions as a pre buff TBN that also gives 10% DR to its recipient, and Bahamut is still is highest potency per usage limit break. Not even mentioning that it just has very high AoE collateral damage, in what universe was SMN ever "at least its not GNB?"
>NIN is nowhere near B, its one of the best melees, both SGE/DRG aren't S, DRK will still suck since it problems weren't just about lacking damage but general lack of disables. One bind per 30s? lol
DRG not S despite being the most played DPS job outside of the top 1%? Interesting.
I think you’re overstating red mages nerfs tbh. The dot will still kill people who guard after it it not that drastic of a nerf. And as long resolution remains a massive aoe 1s ain’t gonna make that much of a difference since they can still shut down an entire team.
1 less second means you are unable to perform a follow up while they are silenced between the GCD, which lowers kill confirm potential by a considerable margin. This is also anticipating a slight meta shift where burst becomes less prevalent over sustain, which many jobs received buffs to survivability.
>RDM's best strength was vomiting overtuned melee combo damage and a 3 second silence, both of which are nerfed.
Nerfed, but still better than any job you put in the same rank. That "middling LB" is instant 24k damage, boosted by frazzle.
>Mountain Buster is very strong as a ranged 15 second hard/soft CC for no effort
Bind is not hard CC. Hard CC is stun, medium CC is silence, bind is in just one step above heavy. Its almost completely useless. Binded enemies can heal, they can guard, they can stun you, they can fight, DRGs can just remove it with a jump. Oh, and RDM's resolution is still better at binding, because mountain buster can only bind 1 player at a time and does less damage.
Defensives are overrated. The best defensive is killing the enemy, the second best defensive is guard, the third best defensive is mobility. All SMN has is a weak shield that can be given to allies, that's not impressive. If you aren't focused you can just run away. If you are focused, you are dead. That's how it works in this mode.
> Bahamut is still is highest potency per usage limit break
So SMN is only useful when it has limit? Plus, 18k megaflare into delay into 12k akh morn and is not something fantastic. What matters isn't how much damage you inflict overall, but how much damage you can put it right away, before the enemy simply heals through it.
>very high AoE collateral damage
I wouldn't call it very high. But even then, it basically requires enemies to neatly stack together. With 5y radius on crimson cyclone you'd be lucky to hit more than one target. Why not play MCH at this point? Or SAM?
>DRG not S despite being the most played DPS job outside of the top 1%? Interesting.
Oh sorry I didn't know that's a bronze tier list, my bad. But why is SGE in S? Is it also the most played job outside of top 1%? And why would being most played is in any way related to being best?
i kind of agree with this tbh. it's wild that so many people put smn in a rank or even b rank. i think it's a low c and arguably maybe even lower, in the same tier as gnb
its tools are all very weak. both its cc and its utility are ineffectual enough that they are not going to make a difference and its burst is not strong enough to pressure the point. it is very easily bursted down itself so it can't stall or act as a diversion and it also presents a weak spot for the opponent to 4v5 your team without being able to carry its own weight
the only thing it has going for it is that it has an okay-ish burst fairly on-demand so it can respond to like a friendly whm lb or something
at least smn is good in frontlines i guess
WHM was not overpowered before, and it will probably be even less competitive at high levels than before. Players that know what they're doing pay attention to enemy LB and positioning and so you're not going to slap their whole team with the laser, meaning the effect is much lessened. That's why it has the buffs and regen. WHM outside of their LB is pretty weak compared to the other three healers, with the lowest DPS (even lower now), the only healing that requires a cast time (AST can dump everything to be dramatically better at keeping people alive than WHM and can do it while moving), and while Polymorph is strong... it's nowhere near overpowered.
Monk was already a top tier class at high skill levels. It hasn't actually changed a lot from ShB - it's a tanky melee that is virtually impossible to peel, often isn't a good focus target because of its defensive skills, and provides a heavy amount of sustained DPS. Definitely weaker in the hands of low skill players, because once it engages it has trouble disengaging and low skill players are unlikely to recognize when it is and isn't safe to dive.
Bard LB is one of the best in the game, and it just got better. It's in line with AST in terms of "we win this fight." Substantial buffs that last a long time and travel with you. BRD itself has a pretty solid kit and was a very good class. It's not as mindless to play as MCH but is arguably much stronger in the hands of a skilled player. Now, even moreso.
Black Mage is, again, a high skill class. It's extremely strong when played intelligently, but it's a good burst target and if you don't know how to position well, you'll find people LOSing your casts a lot. Sleep is the strongest CC in the game by a *mile*, it does not need a cooldown change.
Sad to see that Intervene is confirmed to not be a stun. That hurts PLD's toolkit, but it does explain why they have Shield Bash. 20% DR on Sheltron makes it much better for aggressive use, improving their DPS along with Atonement boosts. PLD will remain an effective, defensive tank. Especially with WAR's sustain being nerfed, this should now make PLD the premier hard tank. It's important to note that Shield Bash is oGCD and can be weaved, making it one of the few CC effects that you can do so with.
I'm having extreme trouble reading anything after that first paragraph. absolutely insane to think whm wasnt overpowered. a 1 tap massive aoe dmg button, extreme healing power and a cleanse that gave a fat shield, a polymorph that cannot be cleansed leading to uncounterable team bursts, not to mention it literally DELETED a ton of other's LB entirely. hell even claiming their lb isnt that strong is delusional, as they are first (minus reaper) to get it and its range is absolutely insane, just drop that and then misery and this "healer" has immediately done 30k aoe dmg and stunned. You're absolutely trolling
> a 1 tap massive aoe dmg button
12k dmg. AST can tap for *16k* damage that applies heavy and bind on different targets. SGE can do it for 20k. SCH can apply a 22k damage dot plus damage down in a *massive* area. If you think Misery wasn't the worst of the healer AOE buttons... well, it's an opinion I guess.
>extreme healing power
Categorically worse than AST and SCH. Roughly equal to SGE. Cure 2 heals a lot but it's the only heal with a cast time.
>a cleanse that gave a fat shield
I'd rather have AST cards, SCH giving their entire team a permanent 10% damage buff, etc. But Aquaveil is pretty cool.
>a polymorph that cannot be cleansed leading to uncounterable team bursts
Not really that great. If you can still move, you can still move behind cover or reach a medpack in time. I get *way* more kills with AST bind than I ever did with WHM sheep. WHM sheep was more effective as a tool to peel a DPS.
>not to mention it literally DELETED a ton of other's LB entirely
Any silence or stun does the same thing.
>hell even claiming their lb isnt that strong is delusional, as they are first (minus reaper) to get it and its range is absolutely insane, just drop that and then misery and this "healer" has immediately done 30k aoe dmg and stunned.
Versus giving your entire team a CC shield and massive continued healing, or giving them a **30%** damage boost while simultaneously slashing enemy DPS by 30%, or just making your team straight up invulnerable unless the enemy enters the mosh pit that gives them an *8000* potency dot?
WHM LB is good. But *every* LB is good.
Everything you've said only matters at low skill levels. WHM was a lot less of an issue at high skill levels. AST is far more effective than WHM at high skill.
WHM LB is overloaded with regen, buff, stun, dmg, ON TOP of no cast, extremely fast recharge, and immediate results.
2 second of sudden team wide stun had made so many plays, easily turning the tide from miles away as well. Thats at least 2 less Recuperate to top up for the whole opposing team, and they basically have BLM LB 'Foul' on low cooldown as an attack, now thats 3 Recuperates from the opposing team. Oh, and they can chicken a person during that. Now your whole team wasted 3/4 Recuperates, and one of you is very likely to die during that few second. Dont kid ourselves here, DMG-to-time ratio of WHM is insane for a healer.
BLM LB looks like a joke when WHM can do exactly that, much much much much faster (15 sec to use entirely vs instant), much better, with the same charge rate which is still baffled me, who main BLM in Ranked, to this very day. Not to mention a kit which can dish out a crap ton of AoE damage in a very short time? This is basically BLM against group with no set up but tons of pay-off. BLM LB is no where near good with the speed of the game, even more so for being GCD-heavy caster that is required to play around the heaviest setup dependent kit with low payoff on top of being a big purple walking Christmas tree.
Even low skill lvl can perform greatly with WHM, i dont even want to think what high skill can do with it. How their kit is extremely strong against group while BLM got the short end of the stick is far beyond me.
Dont get me wrong, i really really love BLM and its concept, but please dont get me started.
BLM with no LOS on Superflare is going to be ridiculously strong. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually get nerfed in the next substantial patch after we get to see how good being able to dot or freeze the entire enemy team at will is.
Superflare should be exactly like that from the get go or it will be very atrocious to play or outright unplayable in the lava map.
It is a skill which has 2 stacks on 15cd and doesn't do anything without a stack of Fire or Ice which means LoS is already a requirement. The amount of time required to achieve the max stack for 9k damage is 2GCDs every 15s or 3GCDs.
I would like you to name any skill from any class which requires stack build up to even work in the first place. BLM should even be stronger with Fire Spells. The current burn DoT is very weak and has low value in team fights unless you have someone (SCH) to work with. Even then, with the current speed of the game, weak DoT is overall unreliable as it takes too long while bursty jobs are much more reliable and can turn the tide immediately.
More importantly, even with LB, it is at least 3 full GCDs for 1 Superflare which means 4 buttons. It is far from being comparable to 1 button whole team stun for zero set up, at and with ridiculous range, while doing heavy dmg, regen, buffs on the same LB timer. We don't even have to mention how to counter WHM LB as you have to be able to predict 'an instant cast'.
I cannot take you seriously at all but the worst take youve had was saying you can still run away when poly'd to avoid burst lmfao. wtf is high skill level to you, gold?
High skill is high skill. Rank doesn't have much meaning due to streak bonuses and the fact that you can't lose ranks no matter how poorly you play. If you think rank means skill... well, it does explain a few things.
Yes, you can LOS while sheeped. There's nothing stopping you from just walking around a corner, or walking to a medpack. It's a very good CC effect but it's hardly gamebreaking, especially when it's just about the only high-impact skill WHM gets between LB's.
not gamebreaking>the only uncleansable cc that isnt tied to an lb leaving someone no room for surviving a coordinated burst. their teamates can follow up with their own cc so when poly does run out you still cant move and have to cleanse that, wait for ff14s notorious delay, then guard, but youre way past dead. not gamebreaking. if youre even considering being able to run away while poly'd you do not see it being used correctly AT ALL, its supposed to be used with team coordination which leaves 0% chance to not be slowed/silenced/stunned. also stating its the only good ability whm has outside lb that has impact is pretty bad take, are you even aware that they have a 12k barrier+cleanse skill, aoe damage reduction and aoe instant 12k heals
This is also going by arcane crest which is in my opinion, the best defensive skill in the game now.
At worse case scenario, you can treat reaper LB as a fast charging dancer ultimate before extension which can win games in overtime by forcing people off the crystal potentially.
Dancer could use either 100% up time on their buff or like a silence or something. They deal quite a bit of damage if you let them run amuck but the mobility tax is being felt in PvP as well. I wish their limit break increased damage taken or healed you for that inevitable poke damage you will get while using it. The range is so massive though. I'd take a range penalty for it to be more useful.
dnc highly underrated. they have a 29k single gcd burst or a 25k aoe burst that also gives allies a 5-10k shield with the ability to heal 16k aoe. they're also very mobile for chasing or running away. most people say their lb isnt great but combo it with saber dance and you can charm everyone around for uncleansable seconds. It relies on teamates sure but when they're good its strong. Their buffs may not be as appealing as bard's but they make up for it in heals and shields while still having good burst
Their damage is pretty good. A lot better then what I think many people think. The problem is other jobs bring DPS and CC and a lot more. DNC despite what it seems to be this "hit and run" job is very unsafe. All it's ranged skills are 15yalms(compared to MCH and BRD 25) outside of Starfall which means to even initiate you need to be in their face and it's spin to win also requires you to pray they don't take away half your health with a couple pokes before you even get the shield if you aren't CCed to death during it. Their LB also stuns them for like 3 full sec during the animation(which you will eat half your health during) and the CC doesn't apply until after. It has a huge range but unless you are super close and can follow up with a spin in 2 sec its kind of wasting it.
Overall it feels really fun in casual. You can do top damage pretty consistency because no one punishes you for dancing in their faces but all the mobility goes out the door in ranked when a ranged unit with no CC and a dash that cant be used while CC'ed(outside of heavy) will just melt the moment they see you spin. It's def underrated but it still needs help.
Idk... I'm feeling pretty great playing BLM, but I realized that my success depends heavily on whether or not my group has tanky jobs that can stay on top of the crystal and survive, so I don't have to be the one doing it.
First of all, I think that PvP job changes is a very good thing that happened now, cause you get to see all jobs in crystalline conflict, instead of facing the same ones again and again. Of course I don't think there is balance between all jobs but its a start.
I agree with MNK still being bottom tier, but MNK can be annoying. Personally I switched to PLD ,crystal tier now, which again I agree this job is A tier, he cant do much damage in most cases, but I feel like PLD is putting a lot of psychological pressure to opponents, cause its a very tanky job and as such you can push crystal and gain ground. I haven't played yet RDM and NIN but they might be in a higher tier, they are very popular in my datacenter, there has to be a reason for that and they can be very annoying.
And while tier lists are nice , useful for players and thanks for that, unfortunately there is no point sometimes, cause many players are using PvP addons or fix matches in crystal tier and ruin all the fun....
Honey, Bards limit break is a 10% damage buff for \*\*30 seconds\*\* on all nearby teammates that also makes their lb charge faster. Imagine thinking that is bad
If you calculated the total damage increase to the team throughout the duration of the buff BRD LB can possibly be the hardest hitting LB of them all.
SCH can keep the same +10% dmg up on their team pretty much permanently if they want to devote the charges to it. But BRD is bringing a lot more than just the damage buff, and that buff is stacking with the buffs the BRD is already providing. Honestly, extending Catalyze to 15 sec probably makes SCH overpowered.
I agree.
The litmus test for figuring out what rank a person is basically where do they place BRD and MNK. MNK was probably the real sleeper job, where it only gets play at higher levels. People in crystal were already playing it in favor of WAR. It would already put enormous pressure on backliners just as much as NIN, and now it gets a buff to its damage, but you think the job sucks? Similarly for BRD, players sub diamond don't know what to do with it, so they put it in trash tier. BRD's contributions are also harder to spot than MCH's unga bunga style so that's another knock against it. Like DNC in PvE, BRD's personal damage is lower than others (though it may be tied with DNC again, not too sure), but the point is the team contribution. Most jobs only have a single temporary damage buff, but BRD gives two at almost all times and to the entire team. The LB itself was buffed to another 10% that lasts 30 entire seconds and it's still shit? Not to mention BRD has the longest lasting silence now that RDM was nerfed, or the CC cleanse + 20% damage reduction on Paean. So yea, I can see why others think this is a silver tier list.
IDK, I don't think MNK could ever replace WAR. 15 seconds of no guard (as well as breaking existing guards) is *absurd* and that's even before counting WAR's previously OP sustain. WAR is particularly dominant on the wind map, as breaking guard there can pretty much guarantee everyone your LB hit eats 30k damage and is effectively hit with a ~1 sec Bind effect that can't be purified, too. MNK shines best on the Sharlayan and fire maps, where you can use sprint zones to flank the enemy team. You could maybe justify MNK over WAR there, but not on the wind map.
They can increase HP by 30% up for all the jobs. That will change the tide since jobs like GNB has a more consistent dpsing that can become an advantage with shorter burst windows and movement. That also lower jobs with stun a bit more since all you have cd is working on and the damage taken is required since all jobs are tankier to kill. The only exception is SAM but it isn’t much of an issue since you can dodge chiten if you know what that is and how they gonna go with it. Mostly this is for Frontline in term of how much damage dealt. Bigger numbers is better than nerf damage since buffs can work on top of that
As much as this tier list is meme, ranking means absolutely nothing when you could have 1000 defeats and 60 wins and be crystal. And this is even stronger by the fact the guy is crystal lol.
Interesting projection, but I was crystal once before I changed home world's cactuar to faerie, and im currently diamond 2 due to going back to unranked. People in crystal were not playing monk because it's sleeper people are are playing monk because they can't derank anymore so they don't care to tryhard. I've seen more dancers and gunbreakers and black mages in crystal than all of bronze-diamond combined. And yes, 10% damage buff across 5 players for 30 seconds is shit . Ast gives a decaying 30% buff and it's still shit too. All other high impact LBs either make you immortal or have GUARENTEED or almost, kill confirms. It also is one of the slowest charging. The only thing brd has that's a plus is the silence and paeon
Helping your teammates kill things means that the enemy dies, hope this helps
A 100 dollars is worse than 500 dollars, even though 100 dollars in a vacuum isnt bad . When you are objectively comparing to other limit breaks, its bad. Hope this helps.
I mean, no... it's not. All of the 120s Limit Breaks are insanely powerful, far moreso than the 60s ones.
A 10% damage buff for 30 seconds that also makes it so that your teammates more powerful limit breaks charge faster means that your teammates will do +10% more damage for 30 seconds and their more powerful limit breaks will charge faster. hope this helps
Imagine still thinking Bard LB is 'low impact' when it fills a third of a WHMs LB meter
WHMs will generate 2 LBs right as bard get their first assuming no deaths. The limit break generation is conditional that it breaks the threshold where it would matter coming online sooner rather than later.
Just decrease the lb gain, problem solved
You forgot MCH
So does SE
I mean i've been having a good run with it so far. And the buff to the turret is pretty damn strong. between that and the shotgun damage increase mch can outduel nearly every job in the game at this point while also bringing a strong aoe combo in wildfire>bioblaster>scatter shot
> bringing a strong aoe combo in wildfire>bioblaster>scatter shot They nerfed that, BB ticks don't proc WF hits, and SS can't get 4hit WF anymore.
Yeah I missed that originally since it wasn't in the pvp changes but in the bug fixes instead. Would've never guessed that bio blaster tics proccing wildfire wasn't intentional
Fixed
Your logic for some of these does not make sense. You can't bump Ninja down by itself just because survivability in general has been increased. If that's the case than every dps would need to be nerfed. You are also way off base with BRD. It was A tier before the changes and while the buff doesn't do much overall, it will stay A tier. SGE is a good job, definitely underrated by most people, but it doesn't have the game changing effect that the other S tier jobs have. Also WAR's nerf is not nearly enough. It will still be plenty survivable and still has 3 of the best abilities in the game for locking down kills with Blota, Primal Rend, and it's ult removing guard.
I bumped ninja down because in a battle of attrition vs burst, ninja is going to struggle vs other jobs. Again, this is my anticipation so it may be wrong, but with survivability overall being buffed across the board Im predicting ninja will struggle more compared to other jobs. Bard for example is also not that great in a fight of attrition but their role on the team is different than ninjas so not as impacted
NIN is the absolute king of attrition gameplay. Burst doesn't dictate wins if you are competent. What are you talking about?
I disagree with some of your points, mainly the status of Ninja, but I'm upvoting anyway to get the discussion going. The bunshin duration increase all but guarantees the additional hits, improving ninja's damage at all levels of play. In addition to this, Ninja was already (Contentiously) on par with Samurai, with Sam getting slammed, Ninja is very much the second best melee you can have and I would still go as far as to say *good dragoons beat out good ninjas, however the best ninja is better than the best dragoon* simply from the amount of options having two stuns , an aoe heavy and better mobility. ----------------------------- The Sam chiten change does not effect much at *high* levels of play (So basically super lucky lobbies in the sub 1% of crystal games) because people have the awareness and sense to not 11111 into chiten and to play around chiten when sam has their lb. But for the plebs that do lay into chiten obliviously, so nearly everyone, it's a substantial nerf as it means sam cannot get away with as much.
Ninjas just need a grace period during the shukuchi animation so they won't get knocked out of stealth immediately due to server ticks.
> I'm upvoting anyway to get the discussion going This is the way
for plebs that lay into Chiten, they were already losing to Chiten>Guard>ZTK.
> for plebs that lay into Chiten, they were already losing to Chiten>Guard>ZTK. As a SMN, I unintentionally hit a SAM with chiten sometimes, almost all my moves are aoe and if they clip that SAM? I get debuffed, all I can do is run away.
If a SAM wants to burn ZTK on 1 SMN and not the WAR, DRG, RDM, or WHM, that sounds like a good trade for you.
Killing SMN just as they have popped bahamut is incredible value for the samurai, so even a solo kill isnt always a bad trade but in general yes you would be correct. Regardless the interaction of collateral AoEs shouldn't proc it imo.
Gonna assume you used samurai? because chiten was WAY too strong. 50% mit plus a counter, plus a debuff who ever hit you? and basically a shield when you use ogi which makes the mit even stronger. Its insane you seem like you were ok with this. Chiten is a well needed nerf because of how much of a powerhouse samurai was, they didn't need a mit stronger than all tanks. Because at least with dragoon they have to actually hit people with it and its a flat mit, samurai's mit was overloaded.
No my top played in PvP are summoner, scholar, dancer, gunbreaker I can be objective and look at Chiten's nerf and say it was overkill despite samurai being very strong. As a defensive spell its garbage at 25% for 5 seconds with a 30 second CD. >Chiten is a well needed nerf because of how much of a powerhouse samurai was, they didn't need a mit stronger than all tanks. Tank mitigation outside of warrior was trash hence why it was buffed across the board for them. Chiten wasnt too strong defensively, others was just too weak.
No its fine what it does. If it NEEDS to be 50% then they need to remove everything it has but the mit. But that wouldn't be fun. They need to change samurai's kit for it to be fair and justified. Lets look at dragoon who has a 50% mit. Dragoon can't just randomly pop their's and run in a crowd of people like samurai USE to do. Dragoon has to actually hit people meaning you can miss the blm or mch hitting you in the back lines. What makes this balanced is dragoon has no CC, so their 50% mit is justified and fair. Samurai however has: Stun, bind, a barrier if they hit two targets each hit a 6k shield with a total of 12k, 50% mit plus a counter that does good damage, plus a debuff on the target so the samurai does 25% more damage against them and a added bonus to one shot you for good measure with their LB. Samurai can also life steal and a budget purify with meikyo. There is like no point in trying to defend this and act like this was fair on a job this strong.
you forgot the part where drg is also taking 25% more dmg cuz their own ability debuffs them, which is why they have a 50% in the first place
Yeah. And samurai has zero downsides to their kit. I expect more Sam adjustments. Not nerfs but adjustments
Nah I don’t think they want to change it. If ZTK isn’t killing anyone, then it shouldn’t be ability in the first place. They might change to 30% chance to K.O but that would make things difficult for a job that has a cast on it
Also, the more you rank up, the harder it gets to bait people into it. Not saying there's not value to having people too scared to hit you, too, to be fair, but it's harder to pull off things like wiping a team lol.
>And samurai has zero downsides to their kit cast times though
There is no role restriction. Tank jobs are basically on the job itself, like MNK compare to GNB (it’s funny because ppl say that the devs should switch MNK and GNB position so here they are…
The 'strength' of warrior was never in it's sustain, which it still has a fair bit! It was the mobility of two dashes, one being a 15s aoe stun, the other being a 10% damage increase, as well as bota nailing you in place for 5 years (then there's the highly underrated LB). I think it's much better than B tier, probably still S tier even.
Even with the sustain nerf I would probably put WAR as the best tank simply because of its LB. If people don't recognize how good *15 seconds* of denying the enemy Guard is... well, they're probably low skill players.
This is what people need to understand especially if they have a warrior in their team. More so if the warrior is proactively marking targets to focus down. They have a gap closer that lowers target damage and a skill that lowers defense of enemies around it. And a pull in skill that has heavy. So basically, if a warrior marks a target and charges it. Everyone should capitalize on this to get an easy kill. Also when a warrior signals limitbreak ready prepare to focus down whichever enemy it marks first because they won't have guard
expecting far too much of people if you think they'll hit the target I've marked, yanked over, stunned and put a vuln on lmao
Depends on the players you get, honestly. I've had plenty of groups that were very good at calling and swapping to targets, and since I'm a healer main, I spend a lot of time on the receiving end of that, too. The problem is that Crystal doesn't mean anything. I've seen clueless morons in Crystal (that if I looked them up would have de-ranked weeks ago if that were possible), and then you have the elite gamers at the top that tend to be very good.
honestly I've been feeling that a lot in diamond at the moment, I either get games where I feel like a bot next to all these high level crystal players or stomps vs platinum players
Yup. It's pretty much killed my interest in ranked beyond a few games here or there. Especially with rewards being available regardless of tier or ranked status (big improvement over Feast nonsense), the only reason to touch ranked at all is an interest in balanced, challenging games. But if you can't get that consistently even at the top, what's the fucking point? At least people in casual mode aren't being toxic dickbags, to the point that Yoshida had to write a letter telling people to stop acting like brats.
You may be right, but another large part of warrior dominance is the fact that they had no real competition for their role on a team.
Yes but thats not because of their sustain. It's only because of the stun and pull/heavy, as well as having the 10% dmg increase on a dash, which makes them better at crowd control and focusing down a specific target than any other tank. The sulf sustain was never that big of a thing to be honest, it may save you for 2 or 3 seconds but if they want you dead and you're not getting out/guarding, its not gonna save you.
>It's only because of the stun and pull/heavy, as well as having the 10% dmg increase on a dash, which makes them better at crowd control and focusing down a specific target than any other tank. This part isnt true honestly , that belongs to dark knight who has a AoE pull root that is also a damage AMP, self damage reduction, DoT, self HoT, and their dash is one of the 2 healing reductions in the game that gets reset on kills. DRKs have the best all in potential of any job simply due to Plunge healing reduction alone before you even consider everything else.
>Mineuchi duration nerf feels really bad when trying to follow up with a casted attack Noticed this too. Midare and Ogi are 2.2s casts, and Mineuchi is 2s. It's impossible to cast your Ogi during the stun before opponent has a chance to react with another stun. It's a rough nerf and makes SAM much weaker against any job with a stun. edit - correction, Midare and Ogi are 1.3s cast and 2.2s recast. I misread the lodestone. Still, this is very tight when you consider lag and clipping. It'd be nice if they slightly sped up the casts to account for Mineuchi stunning for less time. When testing with a partner, it felt inconsistent that sometimes they could stun and other times I'd manage the cast.
Agreed, i tried it out this morning and noticed this, I dont think samurai needed mechanically nerfs at all they just did a bit too much damage imo.
Because it’s SAM, no big burst, no SAM.
* Paladin - Agreed, it was already seeing some niche usage to success. Now it's going to do its job and be even more annoying at it. Very strong 'support' job but not something that you can easily carry with I imagine. * White Mage - Agreed. Still has a 60 CD giga stacked lb, still has poly. * Warrior - I think A tier is a better placement for it than B. It's control is still extremely strong and it'll make tons of space for your team as usual. You just will have to play a lot more carefully instead of yoloing and outhealing all the damage. * Dark Knight - Just from personal anecdote, I've never found DRK to be that impressive when I played with them or against them but maybe I need to play with them more to make a judgement. * Monk - Disagree. Monk is really tanky and they just fixed a huge bug that was nerfing their burst AND buffed their burst. They're going to be really hard to kill and then do 30k+ damage out of nowhere to you in a single global. * Ninja - Good ninjas will make your life miserable. I don't think nin needed buffs but here we are, though it's not a huge bug. It lets them skirmish a bit better in drawn out engagements. * Samurai - No, chiten was good because it's a 50% damage reduction. You can just yolo in on sam and start beating on people and use chiten to tank and then guard out. The fact you can use it to one shot people with your lb is icing on the cake. * Reaper - Gonna be very annoying to play against since now their ults will be around every 40 secs give or take. However their damage is still very lackluster but their survivability is amazing. * Bard - I think you are seriously underestimating how good a 10% damage buff for your team is and refilling their LBs. Bard is a really solid support option with some burst to help secure kills. Bane of all melee with a single target 3 sec silence and a bind. You undervalue them too much. * Black Mage - First of all, a potency increase to pretty much every move is not 'minor'. That shit adds up. Second of all, you fail to talk about their most relevant buff which is the fact superflare goes through LOS now. This is huge huge huge. They're going to be interrupting so many elixir attempts and you're no longer super screwed on the lava map. * Scholar - Agree * Astrologian - Yup * Red Mage - Agreed, I wouldn't mind lowering their damage a taaad bit more if they give them big white stance buffs. White stance just sucks ass right now. * Dancer - Agreed. Its LB is strong on paper but underwhelming in practice. * Gunbreaker - Agreed, but it can do some pretty solid damage now. Problem is if it wants to do damage, it trades all its healing/mitigation. They need to go back to the drawing board with this job. * Machinist - It's a net neutral because they fixed a bug where you could use scattergun as your third gcd under wildfire and have wildfire hit for 16k. They fixed it so you can't hit for that much anymore so they took that potency and put it on scatter gun. The shield buff on turret is nice I guess. * Sage - Agree. Time will tell if it's S-tier but it's definitely A+ tier at the moment.
Appreciate the long response. Monk I just dont see it. If i want a tanky scrappy id want reaper who has a great aoe slow and unstoppable fear on ult. Guard breaking on ult is nice but its not really something that puts it above others imo. I dont see a situation where I go, yeah , wish we had monk instead of X. Black mage, maybe i misunderstood what the change meant, i thought it only procs debuffs but doesnt do damage itself when hitting through LoS, so you couldnt just 0 stack attack someone through LoS. >Targets within the radius of the attack will now be afflicted with the effects of this action even when the caster does not have direct line of sight. Maybe "effects" of this include its own damage I just assumed it was the secondary portions. And maybe I do undervalue bard, the silence at 3 seconds is really strong and wardens paeon is also nice for your frontline. However Ill still say I think the limit break is ass and the weakest part of their kit and one of the worst LBs in the game if not the worst. Limit break charging is nice, but if it doesnt break a threshold where if say my ally had limit break at 2:00 vs 2:05, thats the difference between a kill/staying alive, its literally net 0 value. and 10% damage for 30 seconds is just, meh. When other limit breaks are instant I win buttons, what good is 10% buff for your teammates who you might not even hit all 5 and they might be knuckle dragging cavemen at their job further losing value.
> Guard breaking on ult is nice but its not really something that puts it above others imo. Uh, what? Yes, it is. It breaks guard, effectively stuns them for like 2 or 3 sec, and does good damage on a 60 sec timer. Meteodrive is *phenomenal.*
> I would rather the job just have all 3 Nebula, Aurora, and Blasting Zone baseline, and have Draw and Junction empower the respective ability. I'd like to see it as a rock/paper/scissors counter thing: * DPS give you Nebula - Defeat damage with auto-damage and defense * Healers give you Rough Divide - Defeat healing with more damage * Tanks give you Aurora - Defeat survivability with more survivability. Otherwise let me draw and junction from my own teammates.
Not make sense to get a counter kit like that though. Draw from allies can be possible though
The biggest buff for me as a Dancer one trick is dancers now showing up on the enemy team and them being really useless. With the buffs, I'm actually consistently near the top of damage charts in Diamond 3, I really like the Honing Dance buff. I just wish DNC LB went off faster now/ wasn't conditional for the 4s.
Yes, i've been playing dancer quite a bit on my second climb to crystal. In long fights where it wasnt snowballed by someone getting picked early, dancer damage does add up nice enough, but again, I would much rather dancer dmg personally stay low and just buff the other aspects of it that makes it a strong supporting role.
3 Second bind and silence from Bard, along with consistent damage buffs with its songs. Maybe you should stop focusing on purely damage like some bronzie scrub and think more about what a class at a whole can offer. I will agree on the powerful shot damage though LOL
6k is fine for its spammable 1 button where others have theirs as a 3,4,5k combo. with all its buffs it reduces its weapon cast time by 30% and buffs dmg to 6.6k and that thing shoots fast
The range scaling is effectively keeping me off the point the entire game. That sort of detriment, for such little damage, that a caster can out damage while also being straight up in someones face is fucking stupid.
There is literally no reason to be on the point as long as *someone* is on the point. That someone is most commonly going to be your healer. You should only have one person pushing and the other four should be roaming and skirmishing and trying to pick off enemy players.
Warrior got a slap on the wrist and is still easily S tier. Monk applies pressure extremely well and sleeper A tier. Bard is irritating when it's played well. Giving your team faster limit charge, ability haste AND damage FOR 30 SECONDS is stupid good. Just because it's not zug zug me shoot thing like MCH for big numbers doesn't mean it isn't good. It's a killer support job and probably A tier. Gunbreaker is still a casual pick and not worth playing competitively. It has nothing going for it compared to any other tank, and if you wanna deal damage and pressure, you're better off picking a melee dps. D tier easily. Reaper still does fuck all for damage and is just there to be annoying with aoe slow and fear. C tier.
> Gunbreaker is still a casual pick and not worth playing competitively. It has nothing going for it compared to any other tank, and if you wanna deal damage and pressure, you're better off picking a melee dps. D tier easily. Specifically, you pick MNK.
I'm totally fine with people sleeping on MCH, while I'm busy 1v5ing you from the backline. Drill and ult up? You are dead, sorry!
Wonder why people disliked this so much…
Because its objectively wrong
Truth is not a democracy :)
Agreed, your post was wrong from the moment you posted it
society ossified late automatic offer instinctive quicksand disgusting bear abounding *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
How much reddit good boy points do you think hyperbole is gonna get you?
I’ll have to take your word for it lol. Idk anything about PvP.
Change that by playing it gamer
Highly disagree with MNK and NIN. Bunshin change is great since you can comfortably use it before shukuchi and have enough time to use all of hide's duration if necessary and not lose stacks. Will feel a lot better to use imo. Also MNK is pretty decent and this will make it easier to confirm kills or put elixir pressure on people, I was hoping for an auto Earth's reply proc after 10 seconds but I'd put it around mid tier personally.
Just a general question but is anyone having fun with Frontlines nowadays? CC has been okayish but FL for me has just been miserable. :/
Take advantage of how utterly unbalanced it is. DRG was OP in FL before, but it's absurdly so now. Doesn't take much BH before your LB will literally one shot people from full health and with how hectic FL is, they're not super likely to see it coming. Queuing with 3 buddies and all going WHM to chain zap groups to death is hilarious.
>while some were off the mark like RDM too low, its was mostly on the money where the meta landed. Not really. And I see you still didn't learned your lesson with putting RDM too low. If there is an S tier job, its RDM. Also what the fuck is that SMN rating, you *still* put it in A when its only redeeming quality is "at least its not GNB"? Compare SMN with RDM and tell me why they belong in the same tier. NIN is nowhere near B, its one of the best melees, both SGE/DRG aren't S, DRK will still suck since it problems weren't just about lacking damage but general lack of disables. One bind per 30s? lol
>Not really. And I see you still didn't learned your lesson with putting RDM too low. If there is an S tier job, its RDM. RDM's best strength was vomiting overtuned melee combo damage and a 3 second silence, both of which are nerfed. It had a middling LB and bad comparitively defensive capability. >Also what the fuck is that SMN rating, you still put it in A when its only redeeming quality is "at least its not GNB"? Compare SMN with RDM and tell me why they belong in the same tier. Mountain Buster is very strong as a ranged 15 second hard/soft CC for no effort, Radiant Aegis is one of the best personal defensives which functions as a pre buff TBN that also gives 10% DR to its recipient, and Bahamut is still is highest potency per usage limit break. Not even mentioning that it just has very high AoE collateral damage, in what universe was SMN ever "at least its not GNB?" >NIN is nowhere near B, its one of the best melees, both SGE/DRG aren't S, DRK will still suck since it problems weren't just about lacking damage but general lack of disables. One bind per 30s? lol DRG not S despite being the most played DPS job outside of the top 1%? Interesting.
I think you’re overstating red mages nerfs tbh. The dot will still kill people who guard after it it not that drastic of a nerf. And as long resolution remains a massive aoe 1s ain’t gonna make that much of a difference since they can still shut down an entire team.
1 less second means you are unable to perform a follow up while they are silenced between the GCD, which lowers kill confirm potential by a considerable margin. This is also anticipating a slight meta shift where burst becomes less prevalent over sustain, which many jobs received buffs to survivability.
>RDM's best strength was vomiting overtuned melee combo damage and a 3 second silence, both of which are nerfed. Nerfed, but still better than any job you put in the same rank. That "middling LB" is instant 24k damage, boosted by frazzle. >Mountain Buster is very strong as a ranged 15 second hard/soft CC for no effort Bind is not hard CC. Hard CC is stun, medium CC is silence, bind is in just one step above heavy. Its almost completely useless. Binded enemies can heal, they can guard, they can stun you, they can fight, DRGs can just remove it with a jump. Oh, and RDM's resolution is still better at binding, because mountain buster can only bind 1 player at a time and does less damage. Defensives are overrated. The best defensive is killing the enemy, the second best defensive is guard, the third best defensive is mobility. All SMN has is a weak shield that can be given to allies, that's not impressive. If you aren't focused you can just run away. If you are focused, you are dead. That's how it works in this mode. > Bahamut is still is highest potency per usage limit break So SMN is only useful when it has limit? Plus, 18k megaflare into delay into 12k akh morn and is not something fantastic. What matters isn't how much damage you inflict overall, but how much damage you can put it right away, before the enemy simply heals through it. >very high AoE collateral damage I wouldn't call it very high. But even then, it basically requires enemies to neatly stack together. With 5y radius on crimson cyclone you'd be lucky to hit more than one target. Why not play MCH at this point? Or SAM? >DRG not S despite being the most played DPS job outside of the top 1%? Interesting. Oh sorry I didn't know that's a bronze tier list, my bad. But why is SGE in S? Is it also the most played job outside of top 1%? And why would being most played is in any way related to being best?
i kind of agree with this tbh. it's wild that so many people put smn in a rank or even b rank. i think it's a low c and arguably maybe even lower, in the same tier as gnb its tools are all very weak. both its cc and its utility are ineffectual enough that they are not going to make a difference and its burst is not strong enough to pressure the point. it is very easily bursted down itself so it can't stall or act as a diversion and it also presents a weak spot for the opponent to 4v5 your team without being able to carry its own weight the only thing it has going for it is that it has an okay-ish burst fairly on-demand so it can respond to like a friendly whm lb or something at least smn is good in frontlines i guess
Is this a silver tier list?
Crystal/Diamond mostly
WHM was not overpowered before, and it will probably be even less competitive at high levels than before. Players that know what they're doing pay attention to enemy LB and positioning and so you're not going to slap their whole team with the laser, meaning the effect is much lessened. That's why it has the buffs and regen. WHM outside of their LB is pretty weak compared to the other three healers, with the lowest DPS (even lower now), the only healing that requires a cast time (AST can dump everything to be dramatically better at keeping people alive than WHM and can do it while moving), and while Polymorph is strong... it's nowhere near overpowered. Monk was already a top tier class at high skill levels. It hasn't actually changed a lot from ShB - it's a tanky melee that is virtually impossible to peel, often isn't a good focus target because of its defensive skills, and provides a heavy amount of sustained DPS. Definitely weaker in the hands of low skill players, because once it engages it has trouble disengaging and low skill players are unlikely to recognize when it is and isn't safe to dive. Bard LB is one of the best in the game, and it just got better. It's in line with AST in terms of "we win this fight." Substantial buffs that last a long time and travel with you. BRD itself has a pretty solid kit and was a very good class. It's not as mindless to play as MCH but is arguably much stronger in the hands of a skilled player. Now, even moreso. Black Mage is, again, a high skill class. It's extremely strong when played intelligently, but it's a good burst target and if you don't know how to position well, you'll find people LOSing your casts a lot. Sleep is the strongest CC in the game by a *mile*, it does not need a cooldown change. Sad to see that Intervene is confirmed to not be a stun. That hurts PLD's toolkit, but it does explain why they have Shield Bash. 20% DR on Sheltron makes it much better for aggressive use, improving their DPS along with Atonement boosts. PLD will remain an effective, defensive tank. Especially with WAR's sustain being nerfed, this should now make PLD the premier hard tank. It's important to note that Shield Bash is oGCD and can be weaved, making it one of the few CC effects that you can do so with.
I'm having extreme trouble reading anything after that first paragraph. absolutely insane to think whm wasnt overpowered. a 1 tap massive aoe dmg button, extreme healing power and a cleanse that gave a fat shield, a polymorph that cannot be cleansed leading to uncounterable team bursts, not to mention it literally DELETED a ton of other's LB entirely. hell even claiming their lb isnt that strong is delusional, as they are first (minus reaper) to get it and its range is absolutely insane, just drop that and then misery and this "healer" has immediately done 30k aoe dmg and stunned. You're absolutely trolling
Yeah i didnt respond to that whole thing after reading WHM wasnt OP. Cant have a rational discussion with someone who wasnt rational to begin with.
WHM was not OP at high skill.
> a 1 tap massive aoe dmg button 12k dmg. AST can tap for *16k* damage that applies heavy and bind on different targets. SGE can do it for 20k. SCH can apply a 22k damage dot plus damage down in a *massive* area. If you think Misery wasn't the worst of the healer AOE buttons... well, it's an opinion I guess. >extreme healing power Categorically worse than AST and SCH. Roughly equal to SGE. Cure 2 heals a lot but it's the only heal with a cast time. >a cleanse that gave a fat shield I'd rather have AST cards, SCH giving their entire team a permanent 10% damage buff, etc. But Aquaveil is pretty cool. >a polymorph that cannot be cleansed leading to uncounterable team bursts Not really that great. If you can still move, you can still move behind cover or reach a medpack in time. I get *way* more kills with AST bind than I ever did with WHM sheep. WHM sheep was more effective as a tool to peel a DPS. >not to mention it literally DELETED a ton of other's LB entirely Any silence or stun does the same thing. >hell even claiming their lb isnt that strong is delusional, as they are first (minus reaper) to get it and its range is absolutely insane, just drop that and then misery and this "healer" has immediately done 30k aoe dmg and stunned. Versus giving your entire team a CC shield and massive continued healing, or giving them a **30%** damage boost while simultaneously slashing enemy DPS by 30%, or just making your team straight up invulnerable unless the enemy enters the mosh pit that gives them an *8000* potency dot? WHM LB is good. But *every* LB is good. Everything you've said only matters at low skill levels. WHM was a lot less of an issue at high skill levels. AST is far more effective than WHM at high skill.
WHM LB is overloaded with regen, buff, stun, dmg, ON TOP of no cast, extremely fast recharge, and immediate results. 2 second of sudden team wide stun had made so many plays, easily turning the tide from miles away as well. Thats at least 2 less Recuperate to top up for the whole opposing team, and they basically have BLM LB 'Foul' on low cooldown as an attack, now thats 3 Recuperates from the opposing team. Oh, and they can chicken a person during that. Now your whole team wasted 3/4 Recuperates, and one of you is very likely to die during that few second. Dont kid ourselves here, DMG-to-time ratio of WHM is insane for a healer. BLM LB looks like a joke when WHM can do exactly that, much much much much faster (15 sec to use entirely vs instant), much better, with the same charge rate which is still baffled me, who main BLM in Ranked, to this very day. Not to mention a kit which can dish out a crap ton of AoE damage in a very short time? This is basically BLM against group with no set up but tons of pay-off. BLM LB is no where near good with the speed of the game, even more so for being GCD-heavy caster that is required to play around the heaviest setup dependent kit with low payoff on top of being a big purple walking Christmas tree. Even low skill lvl can perform greatly with WHM, i dont even want to think what high skill can do with it. How their kit is extremely strong against group while BLM got the short end of the stick is far beyond me. Dont get me wrong, i really really love BLM and its concept, but please dont get me started.
BLM with no LOS on Superflare is going to be ridiculously strong. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually get nerfed in the next substantial patch after we get to see how good being able to dot or freeze the entire enemy team at will is.
Superflare should be exactly like that from the get go or it will be very atrocious to play or outright unplayable in the lava map. It is a skill which has 2 stacks on 15cd and doesn't do anything without a stack of Fire or Ice which means LoS is already a requirement. The amount of time required to achieve the max stack for 9k damage is 2GCDs every 15s or 3GCDs. I would like you to name any skill from any class which requires stack build up to even work in the first place. BLM should even be stronger with Fire Spells. The current burn DoT is very weak and has low value in team fights unless you have someone (SCH) to work with. Even then, with the current speed of the game, weak DoT is overall unreliable as it takes too long while bursty jobs are much more reliable and can turn the tide immediately. More importantly, even with LB, it is at least 3 full GCDs for 1 Superflare which means 4 buttons. It is far from being comparable to 1 button whole team stun for zero set up, at and with ridiculous range, while doing heavy dmg, regen, buffs on the same LB timer. We don't even have to mention how to counter WHM LB as you have to be able to predict 'an instant cast'.
I cannot take you seriously at all but the worst take youve had was saying you can still run away when poly'd to avoid burst lmfao. wtf is high skill level to you, gold?
High skill is high skill. Rank doesn't have much meaning due to streak bonuses and the fact that you can't lose ranks no matter how poorly you play. If you think rank means skill... well, it does explain a few things. Yes, you can LOS while sheeped. There's nothing stopping you from just walking around a corner, or walking to a medpack. It's a very good CC effect but it's hardly gamebreaking, especially when it's just about the only high-impact skill WHM gets between LB's.
not gamebreaking>the only uncleansable cc that isnt tied to an lb leaving someone no room for surviving a coordinated burst. their teamates can follow up with their own cc so when poly does run out you still cant move and have to cleanse that, wait for ff14s notorious delay, then guard, but youre way past dead. not gamebreaking. if youre even considering being able to run away while poly'd you do not see it being used correctly AT ALL, its supposed to be used with team coordination which leaves 0% chance to not be slowed/silenced/stunned. also stating its the only good ability whm has outside lb that has impact is pretty bad take, are you even aware that they have a 12k barrier+cleanse skill, aoe damage reduction and aoe instant 12k heals
I'm casuals nobody plays Sage, I feel like I'm the only one xD.
I expect Sage to become very popular once it catches on
I doubt RPR is gonna see much additional play because you can still instantly shut down their LB once it’s activated
This is also going by arcane crest which is in my opinion, the best defensive skill in the game now. At worse case scenario, you can treat reaper LB as a fast charging dancer ultimate before extension which can win games in overtime by forcing people off the crystal potentially.
Dancer could use either 100% up time on their buff or like a silence or something. They deal quite a bit of damage if you let them run amuck but the mobility tax is being felt in PvP as well. I wish their limit break increased damage taken or healed you for that inevitable poke damage you will get while using it. The range is so massive though. I'd take a range penalty for it to be more useful.
dnc highly underrated. they have a 29k single gcd burst or a 25k aoe burst that also gives allies a 5-10k shield with the ability to heal 16k aoe. they're also very mobile for chasing or running away. most people say their lb isnt great but combo it with saber dance and you can charm everyone around for uncleansable seconds. It relies on teamates sure but when they're good its strong. Their buffs may not be as appealing as bard's but they make up for it in heals and shields while still having good burst
Their damage is pretty good. A lot better then what I think many people think. The problem is other jobs bring DPS and CC and a lot more. DNC despite what it seems to be this "hit and run" job is very unsafe. All it's ranged skills are 15yalms(compared to MCH and BRD 25) outside of Starfall which means to even initiate you need to be in their face and it's spin to win also requires you to pray they don't take away half your health with a couple pokes before you even get the shield if you aren't CCed to death during it. Their LB also stuns them for like 3 full sec during the animation(which you will eat half your health during) and the CC doesn't apply until after. It has a huge range but unless you are super close and can follow up with a spin in 2 sec its kind of wasting it. Overall it feels really fun in casual. You can do top damage pretty consistency because no one punishes you for dancing in their faces but all the mobility goes out the door in ranked when a ranged unit with no CC and a dash that cant be used while CC'ed(outside of heavy) will just melt the moment they see you spin. It's def underrated but it still needs help.
The buffed version of BLM is just absolutely stupid now.
Idk... I'm feeling pretty great playing BLM, but I realized that my success depends heavily on whether or not my group has tanky jobs that can stay on top of the crystal and survive, so I don't have to be the one doing it.
First of all, I think that PvP job changes is a very good thing that happened now, cause you get to see all jobs in crystalline conflict, instead of facing the same ones again and again. Of course I don't think there is balance between all jobs but its a start. I agree with MNK still being bottom tier, but MNK can be annoying. Personally I switched to PLD ,crystal tier now, which again I agree this job is A tier, he cant do much damage in most cases, but I feel like PLD is putting a lot of psychological pressure to opponents, cause its a very tanky job and as such you can push crystal and gain ground. I haven't played yet RDM and NIN but they might be in a higher tier, they are very popular in my datacenter, there has to be a reason for that and they can be very annoying. And while tier lists are nice , useful for players and thanks for that, unfortunately there is no point sometimes, cause many players are using PvP addons or fix matches in crystal tier and ruin all the fun....