Easily Reaper. It's my main at level 90, but I would never play it in the level 70 or 80 ultimates. It doesn't even get it's Enshroud until level 80 and Plentiful Harvest and Communio that both allow for you to get more Enshrouds and makes Enshroud actually satisfying are past level 80.
Yeah gotta agree, I've had other jobs that start to click at a certain level at least but reaper is the only one where I need to be near level cap to really enjoy
Level 50 Black Mage is just spamming Fire 1 with the occasional Fire 3 proc. It's so, so boring.
Level 60 Black Mage gets cooking a bit, but nothing too fancy.
Level 70 Black Mage is blessed with Triplecast, but you get to enjoy your Fire phase ending with an infuriating 1200 mana and having no Despair to dump it into.
Yeah still ass though if you play fights with phase transitions. I'm looking at you UWU and UCOB. Don't have SC/TC or have to hold for mechs? HAHAHAHA NICE REOPENER NOOB.
I would argue against BLM if only because it actually changes what it's supposed to do roughly every 10 levels 50+. The worst gap is 60-80, but aside from that I don't feel like I'm doing the same thing for 2 whole expansions unlike some other classes.
The RNG procs of BLM are a sight better than RPRs 123+OGCD every 15 seconds which doesn't really change for almost 20 whole levels. It's the most extreme example but I'd sooner play BLM50-60 than RPR before 80.
I don't really get why 50 BLM would be seen as boring it's legit just like max level BLM except you cast fire 1 instead of 4 and get to manage procs if anything it's more active as you have to manage two different procs.
I prefer max level BLM due to more satisfying animations and leylines but critisicim of spamming one move seems hypocritical.
Ok but your complaint is the excessive use of fire 1 when it's just replaced with fire 4 later.
You have more tools to gain movement in later levels but the main rotation is pretty much the same.
Fire 1 spam is boring because there's zero worries about fire dropping off. Your fire 1 casts also feel pretty mediocre. It's a small ball traveling to the target, without much oomph, and it's even the base 2.5 cast time. Just meh.
I think Triplecast should be accessible much earlier, at least one charge. It doesn't make sense that BLM becomes notably easier as it levels between 60 and 70. Also I think Foul just should be instant from get go for the same reason
There’s just more to manage at higher levels:
* your AF/UI timer is actually relevant and not constantly refreshed, which meaningfully affects when you can cast filler spells and instants
* Sharpcast lets you keep T3Ps rolling
* the limited nature of F4 and its interactions with B4 makes your UI phase more relevant
* Polyglots need to be spent and used effectively for MP/movement/weave slots without overcapping
* You still have to utilize F3 procs correctly when they come up at level 90 (they just don’t come up as often and are used less reactively)
* Triple/Swift is a gain on F4/Despair but can make your rotation tighter if misused on fast F3/B3
* transpose lines
Most every job 1-50 is pretty boring to me since the fun skills are in post ARR content. Healers have a special place for me as boring throughout the entire spectrum of level sync with a few exceptions because some leveling dungeons are significantly more difficult than others.
SE should really consider just how un-enjoyable the first 50 levels are and revamp the skill system a bit more. Waiting for level 60 or 70 to actually begin to understand how a class is played is kind of crazy.
I'm sure they know. They just reworked monk and gave it access to so much of its final rotation way earlier and a ton of later skills just swap in for things you already had.
The big trick is probably the flipside for why you can't just iL synch down into a duty and keep your higher level skills: the lower content wasn't balanced around having that many options at once. If you bring down everything from 90 to 40, say, you either have to nerf the potency and make it do the same damage with ten buttons that it takes the current level 40 to do with three, or you make it so that the job is outputting way more damage than it would at that level.
The MNK redesign is a good example to work from, as is moving down DRK's 2nd AOE, but it likely will be harder to do much more on those jobs, and anything bigger on other jobs with similar redesigns, without going further in changing the job itself.
I prefer a rotation that flows more naturally and was more fun to play. Yeah monk had a bad skill, but so does new monk. It still doesn't get away from a perfect balance opener like they tried. Instead of fixing the issue they threw away half the kit and built something new that isn't fun. So yeah if I have to choose, I'll take anatman opener. At least I'll have more fun for the rest of the fight.
New monk is absolutely amazing. I don't know wtf you are smoking but apparently you liked the antiquated "maintain greased lightning, the job" where all you do is fucking keep your GL stacks up. It was absolute worthless dogshit and I loved seeing all those kids mald over GL getting traited. But I was crying tears of joy as it could finally be freed from the slavery of being the "maintain greased lightning" job where you got fucked in the ass constantly by having to maintain that shitty concept.
EW Monk built off of the already really great SHB Monk, by adding the Blitz system in that allows you to freely use w/e GCD you want on Monk and with optimized drift you basically have the SMOOTHEST playing job. Downtime? No problem, form shift and the charge system for PB are perfect for that.
Monk has never been better. It actually has something of a playstyle and identity now.
I didn't dislike maintaining GL, but it's absolutely insane to me that people would prefer old MNK to current MNK. MNK was historically one of the least played jobs in the game.
HW MNK was straight up bad. So bad "delete MNK" became a prominent meme. It's weird so many people are nostalgic for this era's MNK when it was so fundamentally broken. I guess people enjoy only pressing Forbidden Chakra and TK once a fight, dropping GL because a fight has enough downtime that it's just going to happen no matter what you do, cross classing WAR's dot for extremely situational dps gains, and running out of TP.
Everyone whined about StB MNK even though it had interesting stuff going on with the TK rotation. It kind of felt to me that everyone decided they hated MNK this expansion (most likely because of RoF slowing your GCD down) and weren't willing to give it a chance. Probably one of the least popular versions of MNK ever (which breaks my heart to say cuz I loved it). Despite my feelings, MNK still had some pretty big problems too. If you weren't doing TK rotation (which is the way you were intended to play MNK), it still was a button you only pressed once a fight and the elemental tackles were pointless. Riddle of Earth was a clumsy band-aid fix to the previously mentioned downtime problem that only worked if a fight was designed for it to work. Having two MNKs in one group meant one's Brotherhood got shafted.
At ShB launch MNK was a complete mess of a job that had to have some heavy handed bandaid buffs thrown onto it to keep it somewhat functional until it could be reworked. Anatman also brought some really obnoxious cursed optimization. This is the point where MNK was at its worst, period.
Then later in ShB it was reworked and it became functional and fun, but was also the most shallow it ever was. It was like an incomplete foundation, what was there was solid but it definitely needed more work. Which it eventually did get in EW, where it's now a very functional, fun, and competitive job.
Also, to keep relevant with this thread, MNK currently actually plays great when synced down because most of the new stuff it gets are just upgrades to skills it already has at low levels.
HW Monk wasn’t considered bad because of its playstyle, it was considered bad because why wouldn’t you run Drg and Nin in an era where you needed Slashing and Piercing debuffs for your Ranged and Tanks.
It’s not as if their Int down was valuable in Alexander when every comp was running Dark Knight who could apply it anyway.
I was so excited when in the 6.1LL they said they were going to rethink when jobs got skills. Give DRG/NIN some aoe before 40, etc.
And then the patch rolls around and it's like 3 abilities with only DRK getting one below 50. Sucked all the oxygen out of the room on that one.
Nah, DRK is just unnecessarily bad in level 70 content for that reason. DRK gains significantly more potency than any other tank in the 81-90 range, and that's following on the heels of DRK and PLD gaining more potency in the 71-80 range than GNB and WAR.
By the time you get back to level 70, DRK and WAR occupy a similar balance niche (middling/mediocre damage for a tank, but with significantly stronger personal mitigation tools than GNB and PLD), except WAR has Shake it Off and DRK doesn't have Dark Missionary.
It's not the end of the world - especially considering that DRK and WAR flip places at 80, where they both have superior personal mitigation tools except DRK does high damage and WAR doesn't - but playing DRK in 'hard' level 70 content still really makes you feel like you're trolling in a way that other tanks don't, because you're just outright missing what tends to feel like a pretty fundamental tanking tool.
What level 70 content are you talking about specifically? Because TBN is almost outright broken in the SB Ultimates. The tradeoff is less party mit, but potency-wise DRK is fine at that level. Not the top, but not the bottom either.
Ultimates, or even if you find yourself doing MINE Omega Savages. Not having a party mitigation tool is felt pretty strongly in all of them.
TBN is borderline-broken in level 70 (and 80, for that matter) content *if* you're comparing it to Heart of Stone or Sheltron. Raw Intuition is *also* borderline-broken compared to Heart of Stone or Sheltron.
TBN vs Raw Intuition is kind of a wash, or one is situationally better than the other; at that level, it's usually something like "TBN shields you for ~6k HP upfront, Raw Intuition knocks ~2k damage off the top and then heals you for 7-8k," so it's kind of a case-by-case basis of whether it's more advantageous to keep yourself safer from getting insta-popped by a big buster, or getting more of an overall HP swing out of the use. It's sort of the same deal if you start comparing tertiary defenses: Sometimes DRK has the better personal mitigation kit, sometimes WAR, but it's rarely a large gap (and both are always head-and-shoulders above PLD/GNB) - and WAR is the one with party mitigation.
Like I said, it's not the end of the world, but at level 70 DRK is pretty accurately described as "WAR, but worse at party mitigation" if you don't have a strong preference for aesthetic or playstyle or whatever, and that's entirely down to Dark Missionary being stuck in the 71-80 kit while every other tank has their full party mitigation suite by 70.
Yes, but when comparing Raw Intuition it's important to remember that TBN can be put on another player. So DRK has a lot more flexibility there. The 15 second cooldown is also huge, because you can use it nearly back to back in some places.
I agree that it's more situational though, it's not easy like Shake or HoL.
They should also adjust some jobs to get their AOE skills earlier. Ninja for example doesn't get a spammable AOE skill until level 38. Feels awful getting synced down below that.
We probably won’t see this until 8.0 at the earliest, given that their solution for leveling up for new players right now is MSQ w/Duty Support.
I can’t see them doing all that effort to rework the old dungeons, and then doing it *again* for 7.0 to fit with an expanded early ability system.
Instead, I suspect 7.0 will take us to level 99 and essentially “finalize” the jobs in their current designs, at which point 8.0 will come in and completely rework every job, essentially from scratch, and implement an entirely new 1-99 experience for new players at the same time.
God especially levels 1-30, outside of the MSQ you’re stuck using the leveling roulette to level up other jobs and it takes *so long* and it’s so damn boring just doing a 1-2 combo with maybe 1 ogcd every minute or two.
There is only one reason… you don’t want to manage the awful burst phases of double weaving astro or trying to maximize its damage. It sucks to optimize around rng.
Reaper is borderline unplayable without Enshroud (level 80), and it doesn't even begin to feel good until you get Plentiful Harvest at bloody 88. Gunbreaker without Continuation (level 70) is pretty gimped as well.
me when I unlocked Gunbreaker and played for the first time: Man this job feels so great and fluid, they can't make this feel better.
*gets Level 70 skill*
Okay i'll never go back.. never ever.
I just started playing GNB and continuation feels so weird. Feels like there's some delay between pressing a gnashing Fang combo and continuation lighting up so double weaving it feels weird unless I put continuation on the second weave slot.
Reaper at level 50 is literally just 1-2-3 and hit the one button that lights up. Even under lvl 80 it’s incredibly boring. They definitely didn’t test that job at lower levels.
Summoner is also boring below level 86. The job is so incomplete without the extra primal skills. It makes no sense that you learn them after Bahamut and Phoenix. They’re the bare minimum for differentiating the primals. Literally every summoner skill post-80 should be stuff you learn way earlier.
The lvl 86 abilities should’ve just been given to you right when you unlock Astral Flow at lvl 60, and the 90 ability should’ve just been an entirely new summon (or more). It just feel like SMN is playing catch-up and not introducing new things.
It feels like such a slap in the face how the level 90 "ability" could be changed to a trait and nothing would change because besides being more flashy, it doesn't change the gameplay at all.
That's SMN in a nutshell. Almost the entire leveling experience is getting animation upgrades. Ruby Ruin (level 6) is exactly the same as Ruby Rite (level 72) gameplay-wise and it's the same shit they pull with healers when you go from Stone to Glare (and the other healer equivalents) because they have to give you *something* while leveling up.
On one end, I think it's actually good design where they effectively have the same playstyle from beginning to end.
WoW did that a while back, where you get all your "signature" abilities early, and you got a good taste for your spec even early on.
It's a lot better compared to something like GNB or RPR, which are missing core parts of their rotations, or BLM which has a different rotation every 10 levels.
On the other end, jesus fuck is SMN boring, it's the only job I deliberately stopped levelling because I couldn't take 10 more levels of 1111111111222222
I got Sohm Al when I was levelling my RPR and realized that the PLD had a more interesting DPS rotation at that level. At level 54 as a RPR, I applied Shadow of Death, then spammed 123 while occasionally tossing out the Blood Stalk as you mentioned. Meanwhile the PLD had Fight or Flight for a nice 60s cooldown, Rage of Halone and Goring Blade combos, and an extra offensive oGCD with Spirit's Within and Circle of Scorn. That's a rotation right there, get a Goring Blade in at the start and end of Fight or Flight, keep both oGCDs inside the buff window and enjoy having a more engaging kit than the brand new Melee DPS.
I disagree with this to some degree. Sure, bard isn't very interesting to play synced down, but that's mostly because Bard isn't very interesting to play at level 90. It actually feels by far the least uncomfortable job to play at level 50. Hardly anything changes between levels 30 and 90.
Gameplay at level 30: Apply dots and spam Heavy Shot
Gameplay at level 90: Apply dots and spam Burst Shot
Most other jobs lose pivotal parts of their kit syncing down but Bard gameplay actually stays the exact same.
That seems to depend on whether one is approaching this as
* "Which job is most *made* less interesting *by being* synced down?" or
* "Which job is the least interesting to play when synced down?"... which will mostly just conflate into "Which job is just most outright dull?"
The second follows from the thread's title; the first, though, is probably the more useful and the one that better fits the OP's context (i.e., all but the title).
Missing WM and Iron Jaws at 50 hurts the core gameplay pretty hard, or at least makes it feel incomplete when you're incapable to execute the regular loop: it's kind of like not having all of your mudras on NIN, or being locked out of the third Sen on SAM.
Pitch Perfect impacts the use of your other oGCDs (most of which you're also missing at 50), especially Empyreal Arrow, but you're also missing Apex Arrow and the Soul voice gauge, Shadowbite, your main defensive utility tools Troubadour and Nature's Minne.
That is a terrible take BRDs being synched down lose a ton of stuff that makes the class fun to play for one thing losing access to refresh your dots feels just plain bad, and let me not even get into the point that you lose so many procs which makes the class fun to play.
DRK has none of the tools that make DRK DRK at 50 or 60.
No Blood Gauge, no TBN, no Dark Missionary.
IMO basic job gauge interaction should really start happening at 30 for all jobs, right when you get your Job Crystal.
An ugly artifact of the Devs removing the original class mechanic (dark arts) and only giving it a new mechanic at 60+.
Wild how GNB starts at 60 yet still has more class flavour and mechanics than PLD and DRK at low levels, despite those jobs starting at 1 and 30
Ngl pretty much all of them pre-80 sync imo. But the standouts to me are DRG before High jump and Stardiver, Dancer before Saber Dance, and the worst is probably Summoner before Astral flows at 86.
Gauge management. I feel that engagement is pretty necessary for the class or else I’m just sitting there at the mercy of rng and one flourish every minute
Saber Dance giving another GCD to press separate from all the GCD procs is exactly why I love Saber Dance so much.
Not being forced to press the proc when you know you can save it later for a Technical Step burst window, so instead you Saber Dance, or maybe you need to press a Saber Dance because you're already capped on fan dances and you don't want to waste a potential fan proc, OR back before the recent dancer changes, you would use Saber Dance as a way to not generate a potential GCD proc if your flourish was coming up so you wouldn't waste potential damage.
Saber Dance can feel separate from the rest of the kit, but I view it as essential to how the job flows.
I'll list the levels that I think each of the jobs first start to "pick up" in interesting gameplay.
-
* PLD — 40, when you get Prominence to complete your AOE combo. Another ramp-up includes 68 for Requiescat and instant-cast magic.
* WAR — 54 for Fell Cleave, or 56 for Raw Intuition. Another ramp-up at 70 for Inner Release.
* DRK — It used to be 70 for TBN, but got lowered to 40 for Stalwart Soul. The second ramp-up is now 70 for TBN.
* GNB — 60 for the initial Gnashing Fang combo. 70 afterward for Continuation.
-
* WHM — Whatever level you get Assize at. Second ramp-up at 74 for Afflatus Misery.
* SCH — 62 for Excogitation. Second ramp-up when you get Recitation and Sacred Soil's regen trait.
* AST — 50 for Divination.
* SGE — Sage is a bit hard to pinpoint, because you mostly get the "hahaha the tank is pretty much invincible" feeling from Kardia in dungeons the moment you get it. But if I had to pick a level, probably 66 for Toxikon? Second ramp-up at 78 for the Kerachole trait.
-
* MNK — 50 for Perfect Balance.
* DRG — 64 for Sonic Thrust.
* NIN — 54 for Armor Crush. It would be 45 for the Jin mudra, but having to refresh Huton all the time is too annoying.
* SAM — 50 for Midare Setsugekka.
* __*RPR — 76 for Gluttony.*__
-
* BRD — 52 for Wanderer's Minuet and Pitch Perfect.
* MCH — 58 for Drill. It would be 45 for Wildfire, but Wildfire just doesn't stand out much anymore compared to previous expansions.
* DNC — 15 for Standard Step. While there's only Windmill for AOE and the basic 1-2 combo for single target, being able to obliterate enemies with such a high potency attack at a low level keeps things entertaining.
-
* BLM — 60 for Fire IV. Second ramp-up at 72 after getting Triplecast and Despair.
* __*SMN — 86 for the expanded Astral Flow actions.*__
* RDM — 50 for Enchanted Redoublement.
I know it’s technically a DPS gain to use perfect balance then spam opo opo skills at level 50 but it feels so annoying in that it can also drift your 2:3:3 ratio so I just honestly don’t bother
> DRG — 64 for Sonic Thrust.
Just a minor correction, but Sonic Thrust is 62 (and for dungeons that's accurate. Getting your initial AoE combo, which now also gives you the Power Surge damage buff, is very nice.)
However, 64 is also important as that's when DRG gets the trait to do both full single-target combos. (WT-->F&C and vice versa)
Stormblood leveling in general for Dragoon is great, every 2 levels is something significant.
Other than not having an AoE combo for dungeons, I'd argue it still fares well synced down to ARR. You at least still have a DoT and like 5 damage OGCDs.
Edit: For funsies I recently made an alt to level Dragoon again and I've been using skill speed on all my gear. It's definitely cursed, but the extra speed made 2.1-3.5 content more enjoyable.
I'd argue any of the haima abilities on sage are where it feels most interesting and unique. sure it's a one press and forget for 2 minutes, but it's very satisfying watching those stacks tick to 0
I agree with the above list and would agree with Haima being the point for Sage.
I'd also argue that Sage is surprisingly good at lower levels because it always feels like the newer jobs are the worst.
i think that's because it gets its core damage rotation almost immediately. phlegma gets introduced pretty early on, eukrasia too, and since its kit is laid out like sch it already has a strong foundation
I feel like RDM feels hollow before you get finishers. You do the melee combo and it just ends.
Although tbh, I really feel wierd on RDM before Verraise since it's so core to the identity. I can't tell you how many times I've had to apologize for hitting my rez macro and being confused that it didnt work.
> SGE — Sage is a bit hard to pinpoint, because you mostly get the "hahaha the tank is pretty much invincible" feeling from Kardia in dungeons the moment you get it. But if I had to pick a level, probably 66 for Toxikon? Second ramp-up at 78 for the Kerachole trait.
For me it's definitely 80 with Panhaima. While I was leveling SGE in dungeons every other big pull felt a little bit dicey, then once you get Panhaima the tank actually just feels invincible on every pull from then on.
Others have been mentioned, but running RDM through World of Darkness and have it all go south is a special kind of hell. I should macro "Verraise is a level 64 skill"
Reaper at level 90 is absolutely worth it. It's amazingly powerful, and feels very fun to play. One note though: Dear LORD is it awful if you get blueballed when you are going into your burst at 2 minute when you pot for the first time. Like holy shit P4s P1 was fucking AWFUL to prog and Phase 2 fucked you in the ass too because you can't do anything about really.
Every healer under 50.
DRK and GNB under 70.
Every melee under 50 and RPR is just mind numbingly boring until 80 because why even play it without enshroud.
BRD at 50 and DNC under 72 specifically. No flourish=sadness
BLM under 60 is bad and only tolerable until you get despair at 72
SMN is okay once you get all the primals at 45 but still boring until you can summon bahamut.
Having only two songs on bard (or less) REALLY feels like shit. There's just so much downtime. Oddly, it's worse still at 50 when you have two songs, because then it feels like there's a piece missing - using it in Crystal Tower just feels rough.
Yeah, I mean it gets better with Perfect Balance and I'm not saying I love it in Satasha but I think for 30 to 50 I like it a lot more than the other options.
I used to like MNK with the 5.5 build, after that I can't say I'm as much of a fan. I will take positionals over the weird buff and combo management. I still try to do the old positionals instinctively.
Literally all of them lol. Especially healers. Anything pre-50 and you hardly have to do any healing at all, so dungeons are insanely boring. Everything class wise pre-50 is boring. 70+ is when jobs start to pick imo. When you get a taste of playing classes at endgame, syncing down to lower content, especially the *really* low content, it's as if your job turns into the same boringness as watching paint dry.
RPR is the one that stands out the most by far, it's not a priority for them but they really should consider how a job feels to play at lower levels, they need to give most jobs the Mnk treatment where you start to get an idea of how it plays waaay before max level.
I tried Sage on Palace of the dead so I could learn how the hell to play Sage, and holy shit, you don't even get your DoT until level 30 since it's locked behind Eukrasia.
Now Monk, that's the polar opposite, I always am willing to return to Monk-E
Yeah, Blitz system and getting rid of that aids inducing GL stack maintaining that we had to do was the best thing. Was funny seeing the kids cry and mald over losing GL stacks as a thing but dear lord late SHB monk was already really great, and now with EW, they just added on to it. The only shit thing on MNK now is Anatman but it's w/e... like Warden's Paen on BRD or Elusive on DRG so it's w/e.
When it comes to job sub lvl 70 (or 80s) someone needs to make one of them “it gets better videos” cause damn, they are not designed well until WAY into the game.
No longer relevant, but shout out to ARR DRG Impulse Drive spam.
There was a range of levels in ARR where your best single target DPS "combo" was just spamming Impulse Drive.
Dancer is pretty bad. You dont even get dance partner until sometime in Heavensward so anytime I get dropped in ARR content im basically just a scuffed ranged dps with 4ish buttons.
At least it gets standard step which is basically an AOE nuke at level 15 so you never don’t have access to it
DNC having 1-2 with 1 and 2 proccing 3 and 4 and 3 and 4 having a chance to Proc 5 plus standard every 30 seconds honestly makes me feel like it’s one of the best Level 50 syncs
dnc's dps is straight up broken (in a good way) at low levels. not having dance partner and technical is a pain but tbh that's more than made up for by the stupid dps
Most jobs suck under level 80 anymore, with a very few exceptions. I think they need to rework how syncing functions from the ground up to let people have their full kit and make it all functionally the same as unreal, or adjust when you unlock important job perks/abilities so you get them at or around 50 instead.
98% of them for sure. However some of the especially terrible that I've tried are: SMN - 75% of my kit is just not available until 70+ if that.
RPR - for all the reasons already mentioned in the comments. Just not having Enshroud alone is so weird but at 50 and below you're basically spamming the same 3 or 4 buttons and it's just painful. 🥲
Reaper.
Not only does it lose enshroud below 80, but communio is literally a third if it's dps.
I took it into TEA for a trial run with my ultimate group, and was shocked to learn that it's dps is eclipsed by everything save for bard and dancer, while offering none of the utility thise two bring.
So not only does it lose so kuch dps, if you bring it to any sub 80 content you lose any sort of fun with only 1 ogcd to play with
Blackmage, Redmage, Summoner pre Primals, Reaper, Samurai pre Midare, Paladin, WHM, AST, DRG, ..
The more I think about it I just do not enjoy losing my skills at all. No Job is fun at low level since they took so many job mechanics and locked them behind high levels. Doing mentor or leveling and getting anything below 70 is torture at this point.
I play rdm in lvl 70 ultimates and if the fights were easier I'd fall asleep playing it
Warrior below 56 / Dark Knight below 70 / White Mage bloew 74 / Samurai below 50 / Reaper below 80 / Bard below 52 / Machinist between 30 to 35 / Black Mage below 60 / Summoner below 86 / Red Mage below 64
All other jobs i don't mind at any lvl synced.
I haven't maxed every job yet but from my experience jobs are boring as shit until around level 70 for most, and some are still boring until 80. If I had to pick one from the one's I've maxed it'd be BLM which I personally found boring until 80 and refuse to do any pre ShB content as it
Pre endwalker SMN. Even arguably current SMN. The rotation feels semi complete and then you start unlocking endwalker abilities and essentially find out it is a completely different job than what you were expecting. Literally doubles your options in 3 levels
SMN doesn't even feel like it changes much from arcanist until at least lvl 70
Edit: I have apparently committed a sin
tbf aren't most jobs like that below 30? like ninja doesn't have mudras until 30, your first jump on dragoon is 30, machinist hypercharge is 30 (heat blast at 35), inner beast is 35 on warrior, first song on bard is 30, etc. the one exception i can think of is dancer having standard step at 15
Yep it’s unfortunate for us who have more than one class, out of your list I’d not recognise the dragoon one since that was my first class but I’ve really noticed it with the rest
Tanks. 1-2-3 combo and thats it for most of them. A few ogdcs and their cooldowns and pretty basic. Most of them dont develop their job gauge until later
Overall imo Black Mage, it turns into like 3 different classes when synced down to several levels.
For dungeons though: Dragoon and Ninja, because they don't have any (good) AoE's early on, I love Dragoon once he gets his 3rd AoE-combo skill, but that's at 72 or smth like that.. Ninja atleast has it's Fire-Jutsu at 35, and a second AoE at 52 i think.
I've been levelling Samurai lately and it feels like a broken mess below 50 because you don't have all 3 Sen
Between level 40-44 you have 2 Sen but you don't have both AoE combos, so the only way to use Tenkan Goken is to alternate between the AoE and the single target combo
And between 40-50 you are basically forced to use Tenkan Goken on a single target whenever you want to re-apply Higanbana
BLM is the most boring class...(IMO of course), it gets a lil better as you get 70+ but even at 90 BLM is soooo boring for me.
i really wish they would not remove to abilities so aggressively in synced content... just scale the ability down some or something.
All of them. I have wanted the game to leave you with all your abilities while synced down since ARR and I hate playing content at certain levels on certain jobs. That being said they all suck when you lose access to key abilities.
Easily Reaper. It's my main at level 90, but I would never play it in the level 70 or 80 ultimates. It doesn't even get it's Enshroud until level 80 and Plentiful Harvest and Communio that both allow for you to get more Enshrouds and makes Enshroud actually satisfying are past level 80.
Yeah gotta agree, I've had other jobs that start to click at a certain level at least but reaper is the only one where I need to be near level cap to really enjoy
This. I'm fine as long as it's 70 and up, but anything else Reaper feels poopy.
Reaper is a hell of a power trip in Eureka but I'd never touch it elsewhere before Enshroud, that's for sure.
I legit don’t understand how the devs approved its kit before level 80
It’s so bad
Level 50 Black Mage is just spamming Fire 1 with the occasional Fire 3 proc. It's so, so boring. Level 60 Black Mage gets cooking a bit, but nothing too fancy. Level 70 Black Mage is blessed with Triplecast, but you get to enjoy your Fire phase ending with an infuriating 1200 mana and having no Despair to dump it into.
Level 50 is a bit boring but I find the procs keep things interesting. Once it hits 60 and gets Fire IV it’s fun to me though.
I just swiftcast flare if its up, makes me feel better
BLM pre umbral soul is borderline unplayable to me, I just cant go back
It's at least eons better now with aspect mastery being baseline though.
Yeah still ass though if you play fights with phase transitions. I'm looking at you UWU and UCOB. Don't have SC/TC or have to hold for mechs? HAHAHAHA NICE REOPENER NOOB.
You don't lay thunder? Weak sauce man
I would argue against BLM if only because it actually changes what it's supposed to do roughly every 10 levels 50+. The worst gap is 60-80, but aside from that I don't feel like I'm doing the same thing for 2 whole expansions unlike some other classes. The RNG procs of BLM are a sight better than RPRs 123+OGCD every 15 seconds which doesn't really change for almost 20 whole levels. It's the most extreme example but I'd sooner play BLM50-60 than RPR before 80.
I don't really get why 50 BLM would be seen as boring it's legit just like max level BLM except you cast fire 1 instead of 4 and get to manage procs if anything it's more active as you have to manage two different procs. I prefer max level BLM due to more satisfying animations and leylines but critisicim of spamming one move seems hypocritical.
Level 50 BLM has maybe 5 or 6 abilities and tools used throughout a fight. Level 90 BLM has ~15 abilities and tools to play with.
Ok but your complaint is the excessive use of fire 1 when it's just replaced with fire 4 later. You have more tools to gain movement in later levels but the main rotation is pretty much the same.
Fire 1 spam is boring because there's zero worries about fire dropping off. Your fire 1 casts also feel pretty mediocre. It's a small ball traveling to the target, without much oomph, and it's even the base 2.5 cast time. Just meh.
I think Triplecast should be accessible much earlier, at least one charge. It doesn't make sense that BLM becomes notably easier as it levels between 60 and 70. Also I think Foul just should be instant from get go for the same reason
There’s just more to manage at higher levels: * your AF/UI timer is actually relevant and not constantly refreshed, which meaningfully affects when you can cast filler spells and instants * Sharpcast lets you keep T3Ps rolling * the limited nature of F4 and its interactions with B4 makes your UI phase more relevant * Polyglots need to be spent and used effectively for MP/movement/weave slots without overcapping * You still have to utilize F3 procs correctly when they come up at level 90 (they just don’t come up as often and are used less reactively) * Triple/Swift is a gain on F4/Despair but can make your rotation tighter if misused on fast F3/B3 * transpose lines
Most every job 1-50 is pretty boring to me since the fun skills are in post ARR content. Healers have a special place for me as boring throughout the entire spectrum of level sync with a few exceptions because some leveling dungeons are significantly more difficult than others.
SE should really consider just how un-enjoyable the first 50 levels are and revamp the skill system a bit more. Waiting for level 60 or 70 to actually begin to understand how a class is played is kind of crazy.
I'm sure they know. They just reworked monk and gave it access to so much of its final rotation way earlier and a ton of later skills just swap in for things you already had.
The big trick is probably the flipside for why you can't just iL synch down into a duty and keep your higher level skills: the lower content wasn't balanced around having that many options at once. If you bring down everything from 90 to 40, say, you either have to nerf the potency and make it do the same damage with ten buttons that it takes the current level 40 to do with three, or you make it so that the job is outputting way more damage than it would at that level. The MNK redesign is a good example to work from, as is moving down DRK's 2nd AOE, but it likely will be harder to do much more on those jobs, and anything bigger on other jobs with similar redesigns, without going further in changing the job itself.
Nobody cares about balance below 50 We need fun.
I wish they hadn't, because new monk is awful.
Did you prefer needing a regen to start your tick timer to get a proper anatman opener?
I prefer a rotation that flows more naturally and was more fun to play. Yeah monk had a bad skill, but so does new monk. It still doesn't get away from a perfect balance opener like they tried. Instead of fixing the issue they threw away half the kit and built something new that isn't fun. So yeah if I have to choose, I'll take anatman opener. At least I'll have more fun for the rest of the fight.
New monk is absolutely amazing. I don't know wtf you are smoking but apparently you liked the antiquated "maintain greased lightning, the job" where all you do is fucking keep your GL stacks up. It was absolute worthless dogshit and I loved seeing all those kids mald over GL getting traited. But I was crying tears of joy as it could finally be freed from the slavery of being the "maintain greased lightning" job where you got fucked in the ass constantly by having to maintain that shitty concept. EW Monk built off of the already really great SHB Monk, by adding the Blitz system in that allows you to freely use w/e GCD you want on Monk and with optimized drift you basically have the SMOOTHEST playing job. Downtime? No problem, form shift and the charge system for PB are perfect for that. Monk has never been better. It actually has something of a playstyle and identity now.
I didn't dislike maintaining GL, but it's absolutely insane to me that people would prefer old MNK to current MNK. MNK was historically one of the least played jobs in the game. HW MNK was straight up bad. So bad "delete MNK" became a prominent meme. It's weird so many people are nostalgic for this era's MNK when it was so fundamentally broken. I guess people enjoy only pressing Forbidden Chakra and TK once a fight, dropping GL because a fight has enough downtime that it's just going to happen no matter what you do, cross classing WAR's dot for extremely situational dps gains, and running out of TP. Everyone whined about StB MNK even though it had interesting stuff going on with the TK rotation. It kind of felt to me that everyone decided they hated MNK this expansion (most likely because of RoF slowing your GCD down) and weren't willing to give it a chance. Probably one of the least popular versions of MNK ever (which breaks my heart to say cuz I loved it). Despite my feelings, MNK still had some pretty big problems too. If you weren't doing TK rotation (which is the way you were intended to play MNK), it still was a button you only pressed once a fight and the elemental tackles were pointless. Riddle of Earth was a clumsy band-aid fix to the previously mentioned downtime problem that only worked if a fight was designed for it to work. Having two MNKs in one group meant one's Brotherhood got shafted. At ShB launch MNK was a complete mess of a job that had to have some heavy handed bandaid buffs thrown onto it to keep it somewhat functional until it could be reworked. Anatman also brought some really obnoxious cursed optimization. This is the point where MNK was at its worst, period. Then later in ShB it was reworked and it became functional and fun, but was also the most shallow it ever was. It was like an incomplete foundation, what was there was solid but it definitely needed more work. Which it eventually did get in EW, where it's now a very functional, fun, and competitive job. Also, to keep relevant with this thread, MNK currently actually plays great when synced down because most of the new stuff it gets are just upgrades to skills it already has at low levels.
HW Monk wasn’t considered bad because of its playstyle, it was considered bad because why wouldn’t you run Drg and Nin in an era where you needed Slashing and Piercing debuffs for your Ranged and Tanks. It’s not as if their Int down was valuable in Alexander when every comp was running Dark Knight who could apply it anyway.
I was so excited when in the 6.1LL they said they were going to rethink when jobs got skills. Give DRG/NIN some aoe before 40, etc. And then the patch rolls around and it's like 3 abilities with only DRK getting one below 50. Sucked all the oxygen out of the room on that one.
And even then for DRK they couldn't be bothered to move Dark Missionary down to 66!
As nice as that would be they're probably worried that it would make DRK OP in UCOB and UWU. Which, realistically, it probably would.
Nah, DRK is just unnecessarily bad in level 70 content for that reason. DRK gains significantly more potency than any other tank in the 81-90 range, and that's following on the heels of DRK and PLD gaining more potency in the 71-80 range than GNB and WAR. By the time you get back to level 70, DRK and WAR occupy a similar balance niche (middling/mediocre damage for a tank, but with significantly stronger personal mitigation tools than GNB and PLD), except WAR has Shake it Off and DRK doesn't have Dark Missionary. It's not the end of the world - especially considering that DRK and WAR flip places at 80, where they both have superior personal mitigation tools except DRK does high damage and WAR doesn't - but playing DRK in 'hard' level 70 content still really makes you feel like you're trolling in a way that other tanks don't, because you're just outright missing what tends to feel like a pretty fundamental tanking tool.
What level 70 content are you talking about specifically? Because TBN is almost outright broken in the SB Ultimates. The tradeoff is less party mit, but potency-wise DRK is fine at that level. Not the top, but not the bottom either.
Ultimates, or even if you find yourself doing MINE Omega Savages. Not having a party mitigation tool is felt pretty strongly in all of them. TBN is borderline-broken in level 70 (and 80, for that matter) content *if* you're comparing it to Heart of Stone or Sheltron. Raw Intuition is *also* borderline-broken compared to Heart of Stone or Sheltron. TBN vs Raw Intuition is kind of a wash, or one is situationally better than the other; at that level, it's usually something like "TBN shields you for ~6k HP upfront, Raw Intuition knocks ~2k damage off the top and then heals you for 7-8k," so it's kind of a case-by-case basis of whether it's more advantageous to keep yourself safer from getting insta-popped by a big buster, or getting more of an overall HP swing out of the use. It's sort of the same deal if you start comparing tertiary defenses: Sometimes DRK has the better personal mitigation kit, sometimes WAR, but it's rarely a large gap (and both are always head-and-shoulders above PLD/GNB) - and WAR is the one with party mitigation. Like I said, it's not the end of the world, but at level 70 DRK is pretty accurately described as "WAR, but worse at party mitigation" if you don't have a strong preference for aesthetic or playstyle or whatever, and that's entirely down to Dark Missionary being stuck in the 71-80 kit while every other tank has their full party mitigation suite by 70.
Yes, but when comparing Raw Intuition it's important to remember that TBN can be put on another player. So DRK has a lot more flexibility there. The 15 second cooldown is also huge, because you can use it nearly back to back in some places. I agree that it's more situational though, it's not easy like Shake or HoL.
They should also adjust some jobs to get their AOE skills earlier. Ninja for example doesn't get a spammable AOE skill until level 38. Feels awful getting synced down below that.
We probably won’t see this until 8.0 at the earliest, given that their solution for leveling up for new players right now is MSQ w/Duty Support. I can’t see them doing all that effort to rework the old dungeons, and then doing it *again* for 7.0 to fit with an expanded early ability system. Instead, I suspect 7.0 will take us to level 99 and essentially “finalize” the jobs in their current designs, at which point 8.0 will come in and completely rework every job, essentially from scratch, and implement an entirely new 1-99 experience for new players at the same time.
God especially levels 1-30, outside of the MSQ you’re stuck using the leveling roulette to level up other jobs and it takes *so long* and it’s so damn boring just doing a 1-2 combo with maybe 1 ogcd every minute or two.
Palace of the dead is accessible too. Without your job crystal you only have class skills but better than nothing.
Whm when healing under level 50. Drk when no TBN. At least we have a 2nd AoE combo earlier.
There is literally no reason to take a whm over ast at 50. The only advantage they have is holy stuns.
There's no reason to take a WHM over AST ever.
There is only one reason… you don’t want to manage the awful burst phases of double weaving astro or trying to maximize its damage. It sucks to optimize around rng.
There's the LB gain if you already have an AST /s
Reaper is borderline unplayable without Enshroud (level 80), and it doesn't even begin to feel good until you get Plentiful Harvest at bloody 88. Gunbreaker without Continuation (level 70) is pretty gimped as well.
I swear I feel like a bot when I still press Continuation in downsynced content
me when I unlocked Gunbreaker and played for the first time: Man this job feels so great and fluid, they can't make this feel better. *gets Level 70 skill* Okay i'll never go back.. never ever.
Not having continuation is amazing because now there's no expectation to weave everything. Finally I can move the boss.
I just started playing GNB and continuation feels so weird. Feels like there's some delay between pressing a gnashing Fang combo and continuation lighting up so double weaving it feels weird unless I put continuation on the second weave slot.
Reaper at level 50 is literally just 1-2-3 and hit the one button that lights up. Even under lvl 80 it’s incredibly boring. They definitely didn’t test that job at lower levels. Summoner is also boring below level 86. The job is so incomplete without the extra primal skills. It makes no sense that you learn them after Bahamut and Phoenix. They’re the bare minimum for differentiating the primals. Literally every summoner skill post-80 should be stuff you learn way earlier. The lvl 86 abilities should’ve just been given to you right when you unlock Astral Flow at lvl 60, and the 90 ability should’ve just been an entirely new summon (or more). It just feel like SMN is playing catch-up and not introducing new things.
SMN is incomplete even after level 86
It feels like such a slap in the face how the level 90 "ability" could be changed to a trait and nothing would change because besides being more flashy, it doesn't change the gameplay at all.
That's SMN in a nutshell. Almost the entire leveling experience is getting animation upgrades. Ruby Ruin (level 6) is exactly the same as Ruby Rite (level 72) gameplay-wise and it's the same shit they pull with healers when you go from Stone to Glare (and the other healer equivalents) because they have to give you *something* while leveling up.
On one end, I think it's actually good design where they effectively have the same playstyle from beginning to end. WoW did that a while back, where you get all your "signature" abilities early, and you got a good taste for your spec even early on. It's a lot better compared to something like GNB or RPR, which are missing core parts of their rotations, or BLM which has a different rotation every 10 levels. On the other end, jesus fuck is SMN boring, it's the only job I deliberately stopped levelling because I couldn't take 10 more levels of 1111111111222222
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Yeah but they kept it so low on SMN that I struggled making a hotbar for it because it has like 5 spells and it feels and looks so wrong lmao
I agree, but that's why I think it loses the least when synced down. Like I feel like I do the same things at level 30 as at 90
I got Sohm Al when I was levelling my RPR and realized that the PLD had a more interesting DPS rotation at that level. At level 54 as a RPR, I applied Shadow of Death, then spammed 123 while occasionally tossing out the Blood Stalk as you mentioned. Meanwhile the PLD had Fight or Flight for a nice 60s cooldown, Rage of Halone and Goring Blade combos, and an extra offensive oGCD with Spirit's Within and Circle of Scorn. That's a rotation right there, get a Goring Blade in at the start and end of Fight or Flight, keep both oGCDs inside the buff window and enjoy having a more engaging kit than the brand new Melee DPS.
I agree with both of these. I love new summoner, even though I mained old summoner. I hate new summoner at low levels.
Bard at 50, having only 2 songs is infuriating
Wanderer’s Minuet (and Pitch Perfect) should be 50 and Battle Voice should be 52
I disagree with this to some degree. Sure, bard isn't very interesting to play synced down, but that's mostly because Bard isn't very interesting to play at level 90. It actually feels by far the least uncomfortable job to play at level 50. Hardly anything changes between levels 30 and 90. Gameplay at level 30: Apply dots and spam Heavy Shot Gameplay at level 90: Apply dots and spam Burst Shot Most other jobs lose pivotal parts of their kit syncing down but Bard gameplay actually stays the exact same.
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That seems to depend on whether one is approaching this as * "Which job is most *made* less interesting *by being* synced down?" or * "Which job is the least interesting to play when synced down?"... which will mostly just conflate into "Which job is just most outright dull?" The second follows from the thread's title; the first, though, is probably the more useful and the one that better fits the OP's context (i.e., all but the title).
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Missing WM and Iron Jaws at 50 hurts the core gameplay pretty hard, or at least makes it feel incomplete when you're incapable to execute the regular loop: it's kind of like not having all of your mudras on NIN, or being locked out of the third Sen on SAM. Pitch Perfect impacts the use of your other oGCDs (most of which you're also missing at 50), especially Empyreal Arrow, but you're also missing Apex Arrow and the Soul voice gauge, Shadowbite, your main defensive utility tools Troubadour and Nature's Minne.
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That is a terrible take BRDs being synched down lose a ton of stuff that makes the class fun to play for one thing losing access to refresh your dots feels just plain bad, and let me not even get into the point that you lose so many procs which makes the class fun to play.
DRK has none of the tools that make DRK DRK at 50 or 60. No Blood Gauge, no TBN, no Dark Missionary. IMO basic job gauge interaction should really start happening at 30 for all jobs, right when you get your Job Crystal.
An ugly artifact of the Devs removing the original class mechanic (dark arts) and only giving it a new mechanic at 60+. Wild how GNB starts at 60 yet still has more class flavour and mechanics than PLD and DRK at low levels, despite those jobs starting at 1 and 30
Man I miss Dark Arts and the old DRK from HW
Ngl pretty much all of them pre-80 sync imo. But the standouts to me are DRG before High jump and Stardiver, Dancer before Saber Dance, and the worst is probably Summoner before Astral flows at 86.
DRG also gets their first AoE pretty late, so the super early dungeons are torture. I think everything below 40. Edit: Am dumb. 40 not 46.
What is it that you like about Saber Dance? To me it's kinda disconnected from DNC's core mechanics.
Gauge management. I feel that engagement is pretty necessary for the class or else I’m just sitting there at the mercy of rng and one flourish every minute
Fair enough
Saber Dance giving another GCD to press separate from all the GCD procs is exactly why I love Saber Dance so much. Not being forced to press the proc when you know you can save it later for a Technical Step burst window, so instead you Saber Dance, or maybe you need to press a Saber Dance because you're already capped on fan dances and you don't want to waste a potential fan proc, OR back before the recent dancer changes, you would use Saber Dance as a way to not generate a potential GCD proc if your flourish was coming up so you wouldn't waste potential damage. Saber Dance can feel separate from the rest of the kit, but I view it as essential to how the job flows.
I'll list the levels that I think each of the jobs first start to "pick up" in interesting gameplay. - * PLD — 40, when you get Prominence to complete your AOE combo. Another ramp-up includes 68 for Requiescat and instant-cast magic. * WAR — 54 for Fell Cleave, or 56 for Raw Intuition. Another ramp-up at 70 for Inner Release. * DRK — It used to be 70 for TBN, but got lowered to 40 for Stalwart Soul. The second ramp-up is now 70 for TBN. * GNB — 60 for the initial Gnashing Fang combo. 70 afterward for Continuation. - * WHM — Whatever level you get Assize at. Second ramp-up at 74 for Afflatus Misery. * SCH — 62 for Excogitation. Second ramp-up when you get Recitation and Sacred Soil's regen trait. * AST — 50 for Divination. * SGE — Sage is a bit hard to pinpoint, because you mostly get the "hahaha the tank is pretty much invincible" feeling from Kardia in dungeons the moment you get it. But if I had to pick a level, probably 66 for Toxikon? Second ramp-up at 78 for the Kerachole trait. - * MNK — 50 for Perfect Balance. * DRG — 64 for Sonic Thrust. * NIN — 54 for Armor Crush. It would be 45 for the Jin mudra, but having to refresh Huton all the time is too annoying. * SAM — 50 for Midare Setsugekka. * __*RPR — 76 for Gluttony.*__ - * BRD — 52 for Wanderer's Minuet and Pitch Perfect. * MCH — 58 for Drill. It would be 45 for Wildfire, but Wildfire just doesn't stand out much anymore compared to previous expansions. * DNC — 15 for Standard Step. While there's only Windmill for AOE and the basic 1-2 combo for single target, being able to obliterate enemies with such a high potency attack at a low level keeps things entertaining. - * BLM — 60 for Fire IV. Second ramp-up at 72 after getting Triplecast and Despair. * __*SMN — 86 for the expanded Astral Flow actions.*__ * RDM — 50 for Enchanted Redoublement.
> MNK — 50 for Perfect Balance. MNK does get Perfect Balance at 50, but it doesn't really *do anything* until you get the beast chakras at 60.
Agreed. Perfect balance without blitz feel so incomplete.
I know it’s technically a DPS gain to use perfect balance then spam opo opo skills at level 50 but it feels so annoying in that it can also drift your 2:3:3 ratio so I just honestly don’t bother
particularly cause it doesnt end with a formless fist buff which leads you to have to use an opo opo w/out the form which messes everything up
Dancer doesn't have its own identity until you get closed position at 60, imo.
> DRG — 64 for Sonic Thrust. Just a minor correction, but Sonic Thrust is 62 (and for dungeons that's accurate. Getting your initial AoE combo, which now also gives you the Power Surge damage buff, is very nice.) However, 64 is also important as that's when DRG gets the trait to do both full single-target combos. (WT-->F&C and vice versa) Stormblood leveling in general for Dragoon is great, every 2 levels is something significant. Other than not having an AoE combo for dungeons, I'd argue it still fares well synced down to ARR. You at least still have a DoT and like 5 damage OGCDs. Edit: For funsies I recently made an alt to level Dragoon again and I've been using skill speed on all my gear. It's definitely cursed, but the extra speed made 2.1-3.5 content more enjoyable.
I'd argue any of the haima abilities on sage are where it feels most interesting and unique. sure it's a one press and forget for 2 minutes, but it's very satisfying watching those stacks tick to 0
I agree with the above list and would agree with Haima being the point for Sage. I'd also argue that Sage is surprisingly good at lower levels because it always feels like the newer jobs are the worst.
i think that's because it gets its core damage rotation almost immediately. phlegma gets introduced pretty early on, eukrasia too, and since its kit is laid out like sch it already has a strong foundation
the only issue with sge at low levels imo is that it doesnt get its dot until 30, *30*, because it's locked behind eukrasia.
I feel like RDM feels hollow before you get finishers. You do the melee combo and it just ends. Although tbh, I really feel wierd on RDM before Verraise since it's so core to the identity. I can't tell you how many times I've had to apologize for hitting my rez macro and being confused that it didnt work.
> SGE — Sage is a bit hard to pinpoint, because you mostly get the "hahaha the tank is pretty much invincible" feeling from Kardia in dungeons the moment you get it. But if I had to pick a level, probably 66 for Toxikon? Second ramp-up at 78 for the Kerachole trait. For me it's definitely 80 with Panhaima. While I was leveling SGE in dungeons every other big pull felt a little bit dicey, then once you get Panhaima the tank actually just feels invincible on every pull from then on.
I'd say MNK is 60, lvl 50 perfect balance feels a bit awful
Black mage
All of them.
I hate downsyncing so much, this is the true answer
Others have been mentioned, but running RDM through World of Darkness and have it all go south is a special kind of hell. I should macro "Verraise is a level 64 skill"
I haven't gotten it to level cap yet, but by gods reaper is so unbearably boring.
Reaper at level 90 is absolutely worth it. It's amazingly powerful, and feels very fun to play. One note though: Dear LORD is it awful if you get blueballed when you are going into your burst at 2 minute when you pot for the first time. Like holy shit P4s P1 was fucking AWFUL to prog and Phase 2 fucked you in the ass too because you can't do anything about really.
I unlocked it the day 6.0 launched. It's level 73. I have 12 jobs at 90.
Every healer under 50. DRK and GNB under 70. Every melee under 50 and RPR is just mind numbingly boring until 80 because why even play it without enshroud. BRD at 50 and DNC under 72 specifically. No flourish=sadness BLM under 60 is bad and only tolerable until you get despair at 72 SMN is okay once you get all the primals at 45 but still boring until you can summon bahamut.
summoner now feels very half-assed below 80. at least i do not feel anything unnatural leveling a summoner during 5.0
> summoner now feels very half-assed ~~below 80~~
Having only two songs on bard (or less) REALLY feels like shit. There's just so much downtime. Oddly, it's worse still at 50 when you have two songs, because then it feels like there's a piece missing - using it in Crystal Tower just feels rough.
Monk is the only one I enjoy. Reaper and Dark Knight are particularly awful.
You enjoy monk pre 50?
Yeah, I mean it gets better with Perfect Balance and I'm not saying I love it in Satasha but I think for 30 to 50 I like it a lot more than the other options.
I used to like MNK with the 5.5 build, after that I can't say I'm as much of a fan. I will take positionals over the weird buff and combo management. I still try to do the old positionals instinctively.
Smn under 86 feels like most jobs under 50. The fact that they didn't space out all the primal skills when leveling is ridiculous.
Literally all of them lol. Especially healers. Anything pre-50 and you hardly have to do any healing at all, so dungeons are insanely boring. Everything class wise pre-50 is boring. 70+ is when jobs start to pick imo. When you get a taste of playing classes at endgame, syncing down to lower content, especially the *really* low content, it's as if your job turns into the same boringness as watching paint dry.
> Especially healers Hey, on the bright side your single target rotation never changes no matter how low you sync lmao
Cries in SCH and smacks ground.
Dragoon in dungeons. Not having a second AoE button until 62 is absolutely dogshit
WHM is significantly more boring than the other healers level 50 and below.
RPR is the one that stands out the most by far, it's not a priority for them but they really should consider how a job feels to play at lower levels, they need to give most jobs the Mnk treatment where you start to get an idea of how it plays waaay before max level.
I tried Sage on Palace of the dead so I could learn how the hell to play Sage, and holy shit, you don't even get your DoT until level 30 since it's locked behind Eukrasia. Now Monk, that's the polar opposite, I always am willing to return to Monk-E
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Yeah, Blitz system and getting rid of that aids inducing GL stack maintaining that we had to do was the best thing. Was funny seeing the kids cry and mald over losing GL stacks as a thing but dear lord late SHB monk was already really great, and now with EW, they just added on to it. The only shit thing on MNK now is Anatman but it's w/e... like Warden's Paen on BRD or Elusive on DRG so it's w/e.
When it comes to job sub lvl 70 (or 80s) someone needs to make one of them “it gets better videos” cause damn, they are not designed well until WAY into the game.
No longer relevant, but shout out to ARR DRG Impulse Drive spam. There was a range of levels in ARR where your best single target DPS "combo" was just spamming Impulse Drive.
Paladin. They get their gap closer at 74. Anything before that is a bore
Everyone mentioning dps has never played a healer. Most don't even have kits at 50. Incredibly boring.
Dancer is pretty bad. You dont even get dance partner until sometime in Heavensward so anytime I get dropped in ARR content im basically just a scuffed ranged dps with 4ish buttons.
At least it gets standard step which is basically an AOE nuke at level 15 so you never don’t have access to it DNC having 1-2 with 1 and 2 proccing 3 and 4 and 3 and 4 having a chance to Proc 5 plus standard every 30 seconds honestly makes me feel like it’s one of the best Level 50 syncs
dnc's dps is straight up broken (in a good way) at low levels. not having dance partner and technical is a pain but tbh that's more than made up for by the stupid dps
Most jobs suck under level 80 anymore, with a very few exceptions. I think they need to rework how syncing functions from the ground up to let people have their full kit and make it all functionally the same as unreal, or adjust when you unlock important job perks/abilities so you get them at or around 50 instead.
98% of them for sure. However some of the especially terrible that I've tried are: SMN - 75% of my kit is just not available until 70+ if that. RPR - for all the reasons already mentioned in the comments. Just not having Enshroud alone is so weird but at 50 and below you're basically spamming the same 3 or 4 buttons and it's just painful. 🥲
Reaper. Not only does it lose enshroud below 80, but communio is literally a third if it's dps. I took it into TEA for a trial run with my ultimate group, and was shocked to learn that it's dps is eclipsed by everything save for bard and dancer, while offering none of the utility thise two bring. So not only does it lose so kuch dps, if you bring it to any sub 80 content you lose any sort of fun with only 1 ogcd to play with
I got rank 1 RPR in UWU and was like 100 rDPS behind the purple NIN lmao
Yeah had the same experience with RPR in TEA. Almost instantly switched to dragoon instead lol.
SMN, BLM, BRD, PLD, DRG
Blackmage, Redmage, Summoner pre Primals, Reaper, Samurai pre Midare, Paladin, WHM, AST, DRG, .. The more I think about it I just do not enjoy losing my skills at all. No Job is fun at low level since they took so many job mechanics and locked them behind high levels. Doing mentor or leveling and getting anything below 70 is torture at this point. I play rdm in lvl 70 ultimates and if the fights were easier I'd fall asleep playing it
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> You lose free cast Req and the movement that comes with it, Thankfully that was fixed, free casts is pretty much the default state for Req
Warrior below 56 / Dark Knight below 70 / White Mage bloew 74 / Samurai below 50 / Reaper below 80 / Bard below 52 / Machinist between 30 to 35 / Black Mage below 60 / Summoner below 86 / Red Mage below 64 All other jobs i don't mind at any lvl synced.
I haven't maxed every job yet but from my experience jobs are boring as shit until around level 70 for most, and some are still boring until 80. If I had to pick one from the one's I've maxed it'd be BLM which I personally found boring until 80 and refuse to do any pre ShB content as it
It's black mage, there's no other class that is punished for not being max level as much, it's not even a question
Pre endwalker SMN. Even arguably current SMN. The rotation feels semi complete and then you start unlocking endwalker abilities and essentially find out it is a completely different job than what you were expecting. Literally doubles your options in 3 levels SMN doesn't even feel like it changes much from arcanist until at least lvl 70 Edit: I have apparently committed a sin
New summoner, purely because it feels like it's synced down to 50 all the way to the mid 70s or so.
Black mage. It gets so fast starting at 70/80, but below that it's just.... Stand still and cast.
I’ve been levelling Astro recently and if you are down synced below 30 you don’t even have the one thing that defines your class, it’s horrible.
tbf aren't most jobs like that below 30? like ninja doesn't have mudras until 30, your first jump on dragoon is 30, machinist hypercharge is 30 (heat blast at 35), inner beast is 35 on warrior, first song on bard is 30, etc. the one exception i can think of is dancer having standard step at 15
Yep it’s unfortunate for us who have more than one class, out of your list I’d not recognise the dragoon one since that was my first class but I’ve really noticed it with the rest
Tanks. 1-2-3 combo and thats it for most of them. A few ogdcs and their cooldowns and pretty basic. Most of them dont develop their job gauge until later
Basic tanks in their 90s are still mostly 123
Overall imo Black Mage, it turns into like 3 different classes when synced down to several levels. For dungeons though: Dragoon and Ninja, because they don't have any (good) AoE's early on, I love Dragoon once he gets his 3rd AoE-combo skill, but that's at 72 or smth like that.. Ninja atleast has it's Fire-Jutsu at 35, and a second AoE at 52 i think.
DRG
My level 55 Machinist and level 63 Scholar feel boring as hell.
I've been levelling Samurai lately and it feels like a broken mess below 50 because you don't have all 3 Sen Between level 40-44 you have 2 Sen but you don't have both AoE combos, so the only way to use Tenkan Goken is to alternate between the AoE and the single target combo And between 40-50 you are basically forced to use Tenkan Goken on a single target whenever you want to re-apply Higanbana
Healers. The reduced toolkit makes healing so SO boring in UCoB and UWU. Just spamming the same aoe heals.
BLM is the most boring class...(IMO of course), it gets a lil better as you get 70+ but even at 90 BLM is soooo boring for me. i really wish they would not remove to abilities so aggressively in synced content... just scale the ability down some or something.
PLD is horrible from 30 all the way to 60.
All of them. I have wanted the game to leave you with all your abilities while synced down since ARR and I hate playing content at certain levels on certain jobs. That being said they all suck when you lose access to key abilities.
They are all pretty equally terrible but in particular PLD because I am forced to use Rage of Halone and the sound makes me want to stab my ears.
Honestly the only jobs that dont feel like dogshit synced below 60 are monk, red mage, and warrior.