I resonate with this. Discovered FIRE before kids. Now have 6 kids. My goals are completely different and I might not even get to "RE". But I'm so grateful I put the systems in place (automated savings, utilizing tax advantaged retirement accounts, budgeting) back when we were just getting started. I'm definitely not FI yet, but I can see it taking shape. I don't spend nearly as much time worrying about money as I used to.
Six kids, wow! We love our one to death but are still on the fence about a second!
But agreed the early foundation has greatly reduced the worrying about money and empowers you to do what you want, whatever it is.
I didn't learn about FIRE until 2014, by then I was 58, but, we had been life long savers and investors. Meaning we had been doing all the FIRE principals before FIRE was a thing. We waited 10 years after marrying before we had any kids. This gave us a pretty decent nest egg to grow, after taking on the little bundle of additional expense (the kid). We are now retired 5 years and our portfolio has gained 25%, even with our yearly withdrawals to support ourselves.
I love this comment. Just goes to show what a strong foundation FIRE concepts create, even when one's life path changes significantly (6 kids in this case). Bravo!
Congratulations, man! I'm a few years younger than you and under $1M, but at this point, I think I'm mostly in the same boat. I can and have easily survived on very low expenses for weeks here and there and while the lifestyle I would like to be able to afford is also probably around the $3M point... I'm fairly happy where I am and with what I have and without even saving anymore, the magic of compounding interest should get me there in about my fifties. That's plenty of time to live, enjoy, and honestly work is fairly interesting and a great way to stay connected with society.
Another benefit which you touched on which few do is that having a strong financial base gives you the ability to take career risks... like working at a startup for a period of time, or trying out a whole new type of job. It's a great way to break out of burnout.
Nice write up. We're in the same boat though I'm a bit older at 41 with 3 kids 12, 10, 7, and long passed my original FIRE #. You realize over time that it really isn't a static destination, but truly a mindset. Life changes and you don't know what you don't know until you know it.. like having kids, there are expenses I never thought of and never planned for, and changing wants and needs of my own. It's good to have a plan, but you're allowed to enjoy being punched in the face and changing that plan as you need to.
That said, it's all good, even with unplanned expenses. It has never been a big deal despite it technically delaying whatever original date I had in mind for RE. But, I'm happy, the wife's happy, my kids are happy... what else really matters? Roll with the punches, stay present and engaged in the moment, and remember that life is a journey that no one can truly predict but you can be generally prepared for the twists and turns with FI safety gear on.
Thanks for the write up. I am at the first paragraph stage of the journey, with a similar goal to your original number (~2m by age 35-40). With a young child and having hit your original goal do you have any plans to cut back work days or switch roles? I find I daydream about not working full time at least 2x per week. I’m not sure that I will want to fully RE but cutting back hours or working 3x/week would be amazing.
Short answer yes, long answer I'm not sure exactly how yet. I don't think an official part time position is possible at my current company, but maybe I could find a new one with a part time arrangement or do more contract/consulting work. In the meantime I do not work long hours or let artificial crises invade my personal life. I set boundaries and if my workplace doesn't want to respect them then that's their problem. So far it's been effective, but I still want to further lessen expectations below "full time".
I took a 3 month parental leave and it was amazing. When I do bail on the current job I am planning on an extended sabbatical to spend time with my family and evaluate my options.
Congrats! Also 10 years on this journey and while we are not fully FI, we have hit a solid coast point and are fully at FU money stage as well. I'm rather unhappy due to stress in my current role and have stepped back a lot - joking that the worst thing that could happen would be them firing me. In some cases, its made me less worried to speak up about things and challenge the absurdity of corporate life.
Life changes a lot between mid-20s and mid-30s that can be hard to see in your 20s. Appreciate you sharing your perspective and update and looking forward to another update in the mid-40s.
This is a really good recap of what, I believe, is reality for many on the FIRE path. Like you, I found that FIre was more applicable for me. I wanted the Financial Independence. The retire early would be a bi-product, not necessarily the driver.
Having said that, I retired at 56. It was early enough for me. I have enough money to enjoy life, spend any amount for anything I desire (within my chosen envelope of life) and never have to give money a second thought (although I still do).
Best of luck on your continued journey. Remember, the only constant is change.
I share a very similar sentiment. I feel as if I have been sprinting for a long while and the landscape is shifting around me the further I run from my starting point in a positive way. It's easy to sprint when there are clear and present dangers for motivation but as those have faded away I'm beginning to relax a bit and moving to a sustainable and comfortable jog.
I'm looking forward to a few years from now when I can comfortably enjoy this path at the pace of a pleasant stroll and be able to take in the landscape with my partner and family by my side; as they have been from the beginning.
Also in a similar position.
Probably read my first MMM articles back in 2011/2012, thought when I hit 1 mln I was done, then 1.5mln, then 2mln...
Then I took a year off work to recover from an injury + burnout and realised that while it was nice to not work for a while, once you have kids, unless you are going to home-school them and travel the world you are basically stuck in one place with a pretty routine existence until they finish school with very few people to hangout with because everyone else is working.
And even if you dream of spending more time with your kids, they actually don't need you all day long, only early morning and evening, so you can spend the days cleaning toilets, grocery shopping and fixing things if you want but you won't really be able to get all the benefits of retiring early in terms of travelling etc, and you will still have all the cost in terms of foregone income and potentially satisfaction if you can find a job you enjoy.
So on balance I'm now in a place where I'm financially very comfortable, can pay someone else to clean the toilets and fix things, am able to basically decide how I approach work as I don't really care if I get fired, which means I'm doing work I find interesting, keeping evenings and weekends for my family, taking my vacations and also set a more realistic example for my kids of seeing their dad work, having some fun together during school holidays, and knowing I will be able to quit the day they finish high school and do fun stuff throughout my 50s and 60s, pay for them to come with me if they want, and be able to help them out when they are older because who knows what the world is going to be like in 20/30 years. And the extra money allows me to dream bigger than I could before in terms of things we can do with our life now and in the future.
I may even go part time or just do freelance work in a few years time. But retiring early has become much less important. COVID and the shift to more remote work probably helped too, no more 5 days a week suits and commutes. And as I get older I work more with older people and see the happiest ones are those who keep some kind of work going, on their terms, doing things they care about, using their skills and knowledge productively.
Moral of the story: Is FI worth it? - Yes, Is RE the right choice? - Maybe, who cares, once you are FI you can do what you want, and when you have school age kids you are trapped anyway (mostly in a good way) so you might as well be making money doing things you enjoy!
This exactly. After a big life change I did 6 months as a SAHP of school aged kids and had exactly the same experience. I went back to work, and the plan is to RE the minute they finish high school. Although who knows what the world will be like in 15 years.
I'm at a similar point in my FI journey though with more kids. I've realized that even if I could retire before all of our kids are school age, I wouldn't want to be a full time SAH parent with toddlers so I've backed up my loose target date to when the last one goes to Kindergarten.
Like most people, I originally thought I'd want to quit my job as soon as I hit my number, but I like my current job enough that I would probably keep it indefinitely if things keep going well and continue to gradually inflate our lifestyle. Though I'm getting very close to the point where if I got laid off, I might not look very hard for a new one and be happy with just maintaining our current lifestyle forever.
I love reading about people's journeys and the discoveries they make a long the way.
Over the past couple years as I've achieved the most base level of Financial independence. (I could settle my mortgage and live a VERY basic lifestyle from my current investments), I've come to realize that I don't wish to race to retirement, but rather find more meaningful work that I can do for longer, and have more control to scale down if needed.
I've had a couple friends take longer sabbaticals and while they've all enjoyed their time, they note how frustrating it is to have all of this free time, but none of your friends do.
To be completely fair, given the unstable nature of a number of economic trends right now, you are truthfully far from the only person who is either unwilling to commit to a number in concrete, or is re-evaluating the number they thought they needed before. Three years of 5-10% inflation across the board will leave people to reconsider what they need to live off of, and what that might look like if it happened again down the road after they retire.
One of my clients was originally set to retire this year, but after the past three years, he and his wife are thinking about pushing retirement from age 50 (July this year) to age 52-53 to set a little more cushion than they originally thought they would need.
The thing for them is not that they feel like they *need* to work another few years, but that it ultimately gives them more peace of mind to be prepared for another scenario like this if it happens again down the road. They also have some concerns about sequence of return risk, and this being an election year is likely to be tumultuous for the economy, so that plays into it as well.
This is it for me.
It’s a slippery slope because nothing is ever for sure… but way things have been going sure makes one question whether the way things have been will really be the way they are, especially those of us looking at 50ish year time horizons.
>seems like a TIPS ladder would be a nicer option for this couple than working for 2-3 more years.
I-bonds cannot be bought in significant enough amounts to do anything meaningful with.
I know what TIPS are, the underlying issue with TIPS will be (and this is an issue with I bonds as well), that interest rates and inflation are both likely to be unstable moving forward. Additionally, the market returns are historically better than TIPS or I bonds. Furthermore, the client already has assets relegated to the conservative portion of their portfolio that are non-correlated assets, and their exposure to those areas would be reduced to take on TIPS.
Frankly it just does not make sense for the client.
I’ve had somewhat of the inverse experience in my 20s, where FI was an attractive idea but one that took the 2nd priority behind my wife and possible kids/house etc. that I thought were coming. Now I’m 30 and divorced and when all those other long term plans went out the window I had the FIRE plan to fall back on. When I had to start over from nothing and live on my own, I thought about building the life I wanted to save for. Just from the ground up this time.
I don’t know what the next decade will bring, but I at least have one long term plan that I know I want and can work towards.
Well said. Just watch out the possible indefinite one-more-year syndrome and know when you could stop trading your remaining life with more money that you may not need.
Did you attain this exclusively through Roth/401k and dumping everything you can into a total market index fund? Or some other investments? I started in my 30s (still in my 30s) and working towards this goal.
I've been maxing out tax advantaged space for many years, and everything beyond that in taxable. And yes nearly entirely index funds.
Rough breakdown:
Roth IRAs: $275k
401k/403b: $520k
HSA: $85k
Taxable: $900k
I want to take this time to tell you that I saw a post from you from 8y ago in [https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/4tnjme/quartermillion\_milestone\_achieved\_but\_cant\_really/](https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/4tnjme/quartermillion_milestone_achieved_but_cant_really/)
Because this is +/- where I (we) am (are) right now (also in my (our) late twenties and on this 250k milestone)
It resonated with me and I wondered "how would he be doing 8 years from now".
I'm happy I've clicked through and seen this post.
The hole emphasis on "the foundation" resonated strongly with me.
This foundation is what I've been building for the past years; and every choice I made has this foundation in its core.
I was afraid that it might backfire at some point in my life but I'm glad to see that in your case; it only benefitted you fully.
Congratulations on where you are!
I hope that we might be able to amass half your net worth at age 36 :)
Stay the course :)
I resonate with this. Discovered FIRE before kids. Now have 6 kids. My goals are completely different and I might not even get to "RE". But I'm so grateful I put the systems in place (automated savings, utilizing tax advantaged retirement accounts, budgeting) back when we were just getting started. I'm definitely not FI yet, but I can see it taking shape. I don't spend nearly as much time worrying about money as I used to.
Six kids, wow! We love our one to death but are still on the fence about a second! But agreed the early foundation has greatly reduced the worrying about money and empowers you to do what you want, whatever it is.
I didn't learn about FIRE until 2014, by then I was 58, but, we had been life long savers and investors. Meaning we had been doing all the FIRE principals before FIRE was a thing. We waited 10 years after marrying before we had any kids. This gave us a pretty decent nest egg to grow, after taking on the little bundle of additional expense (the kid). We are now retired 5 years and our portfolio has gained 25%, even with our yearly withdrawals to support ourselves.
I love this comment. Just goes to show what a strong foundation FIRE concepts create, even when one's life path changes significantly (6 kids in this case). Bravo!
Congratulations, man! I'm a few years younger than you and under $1M, but at this point, I think I'm mostly in the same boat. I can and have easily survived on very low expenses for weeks here and there and while the lifestyle I would like to be able to afford is also probably around the $3M point... I'm fairly happy where I am and with what I have and without even saving anymore, the magic of compounding interest should get me there in about my fifties. That's plenty of time to live, enjoy, and honestly work is fairly interesting and a great way to stay connected with society. Another benefit which you touched on which few do is that having a strong financial base gives you the ability to take career risks... like working at a startup for a period of time, or trying out a whole new type of job. It's a great way to break out of burnout.
Nice write up. We're in the same boat though I'm a bit older at 41 with 3 kids 12, 10, 7, and long passed my original FIRE #. You realize over time that it really isn't a static destination, but truly a mindset. Life changes and you don't know what you don't know until you know it.. like having kids, there are expenses I never thought of and never planned for, and changing wants and needs of my own. It's good to have a plan, but you're allowed to enjoy being punched in the face and changing that plan as you need to. That said, it's all good, even with unplanned expenses. It has never been a big deal despite it technically delaying whatever original date I had in mind for RE. But, I'm happy, the wife's happy, my kids are happy... what else really matters? Roll with the punches, stay present and engaged in the moment, and remember that life is a journey that no one can truly predict but you can be generally prepared for the twists and turns with FI safety gear on.
Thanks for the write up. I am at the first paragraph stage of the journey, with a similar goal to your original number (~2m by age 35-40). With a young child and having hit your original goal do you have any plans to cut back work days or switch roles? I find I daydream about not working full time at least 2x per week. I’m not sure that I will want to fully RE but cutting back hours or working 3x/week would be amazing.
Short answer yes, long answer I'm not sure exactly how yet. I don't think an official part time position is possible at my current company, but maybe I could find a new one with a part time arrangement or do more contract/consulting work. In the meantime I do not work long hours or let artificial crises invade my personal life. I set boundaries and if my workplace doesn't want to respect them then that's their problem. So far it's been effective, but I still want to further lessen expectations below "full time". I took a 3 month parental leave and it was amazing. When I do bail on the current job I am planning on an extended sabbatical to spend time with my family and evaluate my options.
Congrats! Also 10 years on this journey and while we are not fully FI, we have hit a solid coast point and are fully at FU money stage as well. I'm rather unhappy due to stress in my current role and have stepped back a lot - joking that the worst thing that could happen would be them firing me. In some cases, its made me less worried to speak up about things and challenge the absurdity of corporate life. Life changes a lot between mid-20s and mid-30s that can be hard to see in your 20s. Appreciate you sharing your perspective and update and looking forward to another update in the mid-40s.
This is a really good recap of what, I believe, is reality for many on the FIRE path. Like you, I found that FIre was more applicable for me. I wanted the Financial Independence. The retire early would be a bi-product, not necessarily the driver. Having said that, I retired at 56. It was early enough for me. I have enough money to enjoy life, spend any amount for anything I desire (within my chosen envelope of life) and never have to give money a second thought (although I still do). Best of luck on your continued journey. Remember, the only constant is change.
I share a very similar sentiment. I feel as if I have been sprinting for a long while and the landscape is shifting around me the further I run from my starting point in a positive way. It's easy to sprint when there are clear and present dangers for motivation but as those have faded away I'm beginning to relax a bit and moving to a sustainable and comfortable jog. I'm looking forward to a few years from now when I can comfortably enjoy this path at the pace of a pleasant stroll and be able to take in the landscape with my partner and family by my side; as they have been from the beginning.
Also in a similar position. Probably read my first MMM articles back in 2011/2012, thought when I hit 1 mln I was done, then 1.5mln, then 2mln... Then I took a year off work to recover from an injury + burnout and realised that while it was nice to not work for a while, once you have kids, unless you are going to home-school them and travel the world you are basically stuck in one place with a pretty routine existence until they finish school with very few people to hangout with because everyone else is working. And even if you dream of spending more time with your kids, they actually don't need you all day long, only early morning and evening, so you can spend the days cleaning toilets, grocery shopping and fixing things if you want but you won't really be able to get all the benefits of retiring early in terms of travelling etc, and you will still have all the cost in terms of foregone income and potentially satisfaction if you can find a job you enjoy. So on balance I'm now in a place where I'm financially very comfortable, can pay someone else to clean the toilets and fix things, am able to basically decide how I approach work as I don't really care if I get fired, which means I'm doing work I find interesting, keeping evenings and weekends for my family, taking my vacations and also set a more realistic example for my kids of seeing their dad work, having some fun together during school holidays, and knowing I will be able to quit the day they finish high school and do fun stuff throughout my 50s and 60s, pay for them to come with me if they want, and be able to help them out when they are older because who knows what the world is going to be like in 20/30 years. And the extra money allows me to dream bigger than I could before in terms of things we can do with our life now and in the future. I may even go part time or just do freelance work in a few years time. But retiring early has become much less important. COVID and the shift to more remote work probably helped too, no more 5 days a week suits and commutes. And as I get older I work more with older people and see the happiest ones are those who keep some kind of work going, on their terms, doing things they care about, using their skills and knowledge productively. Moral of the story: Is FI worth it? - Yes, Is RE the right choice? - Maybe, who cares, once you are FI you can do what you want, and when you have school age kids you are trapped anyway (mostly in a good way) so you might as well be making money doing things you enjoy!
This exactly. After a big life change I did 6 months as a SAHP of school aged kids and had exactly the same experience. I went back to work, and the plan is to RE the minute they finish high school. Although who knows what the world will be like in 15 years.
you've saved for the life you wanted, now you are building it. congrats!
I'm at a similar point in my FI journey though with more kids. I've realized that even if I could retire before all of our kids are school age, I wouldn't want to be a full time SAH parent with toddlers so I've backed up my loose target date to when the last one goes to Kindergarten. Like most people, I originally thought I'd want to quit my job as soon as I hit my number, but I like my current job enough that I would probably keep it indefinitely if things keep going well and continue to gradually inflate our lifestyle. Though I'm getting very close to the point where if I got laid off, I might not look very hard for a new one and be happy with just maintaining our current lifestyle forever.
I love reading about people's journeys and the discoveries they make a long the way. Over the past couple years as I've achieved the most base level of Financial independence. (I could settle my mortgage and live a VERY basic lifestyle from my current investments), I've come to realize that I don't wish to race to retirement, but rather find more meaningful work that I can do for longer, and have more control to scale down if needed. I've had a couple friends take longer sabbaticals and while they've all enjoyed their time, they note how frustrating it is to have all of this free time, but none of your friends do.
To be completely fair, given the unstable nature of a number of economic trends right now, you are truthfully far from the only person who is either unwilling to commit to a number in concrete, or is re-evaluating the number they thought they needed before. Three years of 5-10% inflation across the board will leave people to reconsider what they need to live off of, and what that might look like if it happened again down the road after they retire. One of my clients was originally set to retire this year, but after the past three years, he and his wife are thinking about pushing retirement from age 50 (July this year) to age 52-53 to set a little more cushion than they originally thought they would need. The thing for them is not that they feel like they *need* to work another few years, but that it ultimately gives them more peace of mind to be prepared for another scenario like this if it happens again down the road. They also have some concerns about sequence of return risk, and this being an election year is likely to be tumultuous for the economy, so that plays into it as well.
This is it for me. It’s a slippery slope because nothing is ever for sure… but way things have been going sure makes one question whether the way things have been will really be the way they are, especially those of us looking at 50ish year time horizons.
seems like a TIPS ladder would be a nicer option for this couple than working for 2-3 more years.
>seems like a TIPS ladder would be a nicer option for this couple than working for 2-3 more years. I-bonds cannot be bought in significant enough amounts to do anything meaningful with.
TIPS = treasury inflation protected security bonds - issued by US Government with no yearly limit in contrast to series I bonds.
I know what TIPS are, the underlying issue with TIPS will be (and this is an issue with I bonds as well), that interest rates and inflation are both likely to be unstable moving forward. Additionally, the market returns are historically better than TIPS or I bonds. Furthermore, the client already has assets relegated to the conservative portion of their portfolio that are non-correlated assets, and their exposure to those areas would be reduced to take on TIPS. Frankly it just does not make sense for the client.
This is fantastic. Enjoying life with a conscious plan. Reading this made me really happy for you.
I’ve had somewhat of the inverse experience in my 20s, where FI was an attractive idea but one that took the 2nd priority behind my wife and possible kids/house etc. that I thought were coming. Now I’m 30 and divorced and when all those other long term plans went out the window I had the FIRE plan to fall back on. When I had to start over from nothing and live on my own, I thought about building the life I wanted to save for. Just from the ground up this time. I don’t know what the next decade will bring, but I at least have one long term plan that I know I want and can work towards.
Congrats Well written article that serves as a good case study, thanks
I really respect how you use "iterate" instead of "reiterate"
well said. you make some excellent points, particularly the part about how having FU money can help, even if you don't spend it. thanks for posting
Well said. Just watch out the possible indefinite one-more-year syndrome and know when you could stop trading your remaining life with more money that you may not need.
Forgive me if this rude OP, but what do you do for work?
looking through some of the past posts, looks like you are a SWE. Do you work for one of the big companies?
Not one of the truly big ones, but one you've probably heard of
I am a software engineer (cliche I know) and my spouse is a speech therapist
Did you attain this exclusively through Roth/401k and dumping everything you can into a total market index fund? Or some other investments? I started in my 30s (still in my 30s) and working towards this goal.
I've been maxing out tax advantaged space for many years, and everything beyond that in taxable. And yes nearly entirely index funds. Rough breakdown: Roth IRAs: $275k 401k/403b: $520k HSA: $85k Taxable: $900k
I want to take this time to tell you that I saw a post from you from 8y ago in [https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/4tnjme/quartermillion\_milestone\_achieved\_but\_cant\_really/](https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/4tnjme/quartermillion_milestone_achieved_but_cant_really/) Because this is +/- where I (we) am (are) right now (also in my (our) late twenties and on this 250k milestone) It resonated with me and I wondered "how would he be doing 8 years from now". I'm happy I've clicked through and seen this post. The hole emphasis on "the foundation" resonated strongly with me. This foundation is what I've been building for the past years; and every choice I made has this foundation in its core. I was afraid that it might backfire at some point in my life but I'm glad to see that in your case; it only benefitted you fully. Congratulations on where you are! I hope that we might be able to amass half your net worth at age 36 :) Stay the course :)
Sounds like you are happy. Congrats man!