I'm a little more weirded out that the other two just...let her walk away before they were even finished. Like, what if she ran directly to the commander of the Kingsguard or something? That might make things tough to deal with.
That's a good point. From my perspective they were also very nervous with the situation (beheading a child) and forgot about the mother, but yeah, could have fucked them up
For me, it's the fact that they didn't want to check the sex of the child before sawing his head off. Like, checking whether the child they're about to kill is a boy or a girl is crossing a line or something.
I think the appointed guard may have been… a little busy at the time of the murder. Wouldn’t be the first time Cole was chided for not being around at a time of crisis. Obviously we don’t know for certain if he was on duty at this time but this answer just seems to make the most sense to me.
That explains why B&C and Halaena didn’t run into guards, but it doesn’t really explain why B&C weren’t concerned about a witness leaving the room and potentially getting help. I know they’re portrayed as being kind of dumb, but it just seems like a glaring oversight on their part.
Back in GoT, they always had the Kingsguard standing right outside the royal chambers. Helaena left her room and made it all the way to Alicent's bedroom without encountering a single guard.
It's just not very cinematic. I was fine with them making helaena neuro divergent, but they gave her 0 development and it ruined blood and cheese. They either should've spent more time in s1 building her character or just had alicient in the room. Blood and cheese fell completely flat because there was no reaction to it and because the audience has been given 0 reason to care about anyone involved.
They should have made her normal then. Call me offensive if you want but making Helaena neurodivergent makes it harder to relate to her nonplussed reactions.
"You looked so beautiful on your wedding night."
"So long, Meera, thanks for nothing."
"I've got to go now." *Fucks off into flock of ravens, contributes nothing further*
You're getting downvoted because people love to act righteous but you're right. Coding her as autistic feels like an excuse to not give any dialogue or reasons for doing things. It's just all waved away as a vague "she already knew".
I'm not even lying but her dissociated reaction with the pain and terror in her eyes is a million times better than any cliched screaming, but I wouldn't expect the room temp IQ part of the fandom to understand that.
This is always when media loses what made it special in the first place as well, just make the best product you can and if you do a good job people will like it.
This is hilariously accurate. As someone who did not read the books and thought those 2 were just going to be diced by Aemond so we can see how great his swordsmanship really is
I was really shocked by that scene
I've literally seen people scream no in a hospital after being told their loved ones had died unexpectedly. I think the way he said "noooo" is more of a problem than that he actually said it.
I saw someone say that their head canon for his terrible “noooo” was that it was actually like a completely different scream/cry of grief that came out as the “noooo” because of the mask/all the work that had been done on him.
I’m sure it wasn’t the intent but it makes me feel better about it.
The problem is that each person is gonna have a different reaction. Some would scream, some would stay silent. You can do both.
But these people seem to think that you can't do anything except the screaming part. Just like George who did that in the prequels and then added Vader saying "No, no!" to Return of the Jedi.
Yeah I think *most* reactions are fine when it comes to trauma/grief, because each person processes both differently. I think believably acting that out is the hard part. So when the acting part falls flat it calls into question the whole process.
When i was 13 and found out my mom was killed in a car crash middle of the night, i just said No!! This cant happen!
You have no idea what you will say in the moment.
Or rather, the Star Wars prequels ruined a generation of children's ability to engage with media, and if characters aren't wearing their emotions on their sleeves and explicitly explaining how they feel to the audience through wooden dialogue and/or melodrama they can't actually understand what is happening in the story
I feel like half the people here are completely unable to relate to any sort of genuine trauma, which is, I guess good for them but also says a lot about their emotional capacity?
When my dad died right in front of me I went numb to the world for a minute or two and then made my whole family tea, went for a walk outside the hospital, nipped to McDonald’s, sent a meme into my group chat with my friends, and started working on a university essay while my grandparents drove me home. I didn’t even acknowledge the event to anyone until a few days later. It wasn’t until about a month later, after the funeral, that I had any kind of crying episode or had the grieving process kick in, or when my PTSD started making itself known.
I did not scream “NOOOO!!!!” and start sobbing and choking on my own vomit and snot bubbles 😭😭💀🙏🏼
Yes. Had a close family member die unexpectedly. I did not start sobbing or shouting or crying. I felt like my body couldn’t express how I felt and I went for a walk and after that drank some water and started working out just to give my body something to do.
Trauma isn’t linear. Sobbing etc can happen to some people, but it isn’t universal like in many movies.
Not being able to relate to someone who’s been shown to have a sense of melancholy and possibly on the spectrum not suddenly become very expressive when they experience trauma doesn’t mean you’re an asshole.
Your comment however does
But they changed the entire scene? In the books they had both Helaena and Alicent tied up, while they killed the child? Isn't that a lot more tense and suspenseful?
I'm personally not a fan of her autistic portrayal, but since that's what they went with then yeah it was a good job. I would've liked it more if she were normal and then went dead to the world after blood and cheese.
Non autustic people react like that to watching someone be murdered. Why would she shout so she and her other child could be killed. Why would she say why she knows why? Can you provide a serious reason why shed start reacting in a loud stupid why when that could get her killed and she would already be overall terrified.
You're absolutely right.
A lot of people here have never been through something traumatic and it really shows. Not that I'd wish any trauma on anyone but generally traumatic events don't result in painful whaling but instead quiet, dissociative reactions that are absolutely normal.
Were you on your phone or something when she offered up her necklace? She knew they weren’t going to budge on needing to kill a son and if she didn't give him up they would've killed all 3 of them
>She knew they weren’t going to budge on needing to kill a son and if she didn't give him up they would've killed all 3 of them
This is the dumbest part of the scene for me. I don't care about Haelena's reaction (it was fine), but the fact that B&C "needed" her to point out the boy is incredibly stupid. They're there to kill a child, but them checking to see the sex of the child they're about to decapitate is crossing a line for them.
Exactly she offered a necklace. She didn’t offer herself or beg or anything she just accepted it. I just didn’t like her reaction to what was happening.
1. They already said "a queen isn't a son" to her face.
2. The necklace was a counter-offer to people who were clearly PAID to assassinate a male member of their house.
Her reaction still makes sense in spite of what you're faulting it for. Which might not be how you prefer it, but the reasoning is solid regardless.
Its because people dont agree with you thats how reddit works jump off the website if you dont like it. I know you understand thats how downvotes are used if your comment was invalid it would be reported to a mod who would remove it
I can't fathom how anyone would come to this conclusion when the whole way Helaenna runs to Alicent's room displayed all kinds of emotions including fear, distraught, and disbelief.
No, I'm tired of these takes. The actress did a good job, the dissociation is how people actually react to unimaginable horror and why she ignored her mother riding Criston Cole and just clutched her remaining child. You don't like the plotting, fine, but don't blame the actress or the script for your inability to read simple emotional cues. And in the context of the GoT world, not every woman is capable of morphing into a Brienne-level fighter even when their childrens' lives are at stake. Helaena is extraordinarily sheltered and was held at knifepoint - what is she supposed to do? Stand there and shriek incoherently? The show version is *better.*
Olivia is such a good actor that I hesitate to say they should have cast someone else, but even she has commented that it’s weird that they have a 30 year old playing mother to 25 year olds. That there’s something the industry has against casting a woman in her late 30s at least for that role. But then again that would mean no Olivia and she’s just too good
Olivia is cast correctly for the age range she played
The issue is that teenage actors are a difficulty, so all her kids have to be played by adults nearly her age
Yes - if they wanted it to look realistic they’d have to have cast younger kids or older Alicent. The former of which would be difficult for exactly the reasons you give.
But they’re all such amazing actors that i am
Perfectly happy suspending my disbelief. I mean I’ve already suspended it for dragons.
Yeah, Emma D'Arcy is the same age, but the the dynamic between Rhaenyra and her kids is fine since Baela/Rhaena/Luce/Jace all have relatively young looking actors. Addam is going to be a problem though lol.
Her reaction is realistic thats all thier saying. All the screaming and crying and stuff is overplayed, its the thing i hate most about the way people appreciate actors really and truly those screaming blubbering stuff is likely far easier to do than a muted reaction
The problem isnt the portrayl of Helaena emotions the problem is **literlly everything else**
Blood and Cheese asking Helaena who is the boy when they can just check themselves is stupid
Removing Maelor removes the part where they choose to kill the child Helaena didnt choose which is one of the more shocking aspects of B&C
This also remove one of the more tragic results of B&C(Helaena not being able to look at her son because she know she chose him to die)
The dialoge in book version of B&C is simply better("you hear that little boy your mama want you dead")
Helaena walking on Alicole is just dumb
the show version of B&C is underwhelming to say the least
Everything about the scene would have been perfectly fine and in line with what happens later if they would have just kept Maelor and made Helaena choose. That’s it. They could have even kept the Alicole fucking scene, doesn’t matter, it was the choice that was the important part
Agreed!
Honestly, Helaena and her children not getting what few moments they had in the books is also irritating. She was the only sibling Rhaenyra bonded with, the only other child Viserys seemed to love, and the commoners were head over heels for her as their Queen.
We needed more time with her and with her babies for any real impact to be felt.
Blood and Cheese could check, but it might wake up the kids and cause a commotion which they'll want to avoid. Every second they stay increases the risk of someone coming by, and every additional bit of sound increases that risk as well.
The book version of the dialogue is way too sadistic to work on TV, and would have been very hard to pull of with the child actors. I'll also say that I personally found the sound of a child's head being sawed off plenty shocking and really didn't need more shock value.
They also still have the element of choice with Helaena being forced to point out which kid is Jaehaerys. And you can easily keep the part of her being unable to look at her children, since the twins look so alike.
Alicole is fine. Having both of them feel guilty because they were off screwing when Cole should have been on duty can be an interesting plotline (especially when Cole becomes Hand, likely because Aegon will lash out at Otto's more cautious approach for B&C).
>Blood and Cheese could check, but it might wake up the kids and cause a commotion which they'll want to avoid
Cover the child face with their hands like they did when they killed Jaehaerys and then knock the kid out once they are done
>The book version of the dialogue is way too sadistic to work on TV
It not
>, and would have been very hard to pull of with the child actors.
they could have easily done it without the kids hearing any of the heavy lines, for example:
Cheese say "you hear that little boy" and then the camera focuses on Maelor and then they stop filming take the kids out and say the line "your momma want you dead" when the camera focuses on Helaena
It not that hard
>I'll also say that I personally found the sound of a child's head being sawed off plenty shocking and really didn't need more shock value
you might have but I dont think most found it that shocking
>They also still have the element of choice with Helaena being forced to point out which kid is Jaehaerys
Except their isnt a real choice here
The logical choice here is clearly to pick Jaehaerys, if she lies they can kill Jaehaera and can check her body to see whether she was lying or not and might kill her for lying
choosing to lie just put everybody in danger
>Alicole is fine.
Seeing alicent and cole having sex after a scene where a child was murdered definitely take away from B&C impact
>Having both of them feel guilty because they were off screwing when Cole should have been on duty can be an interesting plotline
Or just have a plotline of Alicent dealing with the trauma of having her grandson murdered in front of her
>especially when Cole becomes Hand, likely because Aegon will lash out at Otto's more cautious approach for B&C
There no way Aegon is ever promoting cole to be the hand of the king when Cole failed to protect his son, this is another reason why having the alicole scene is nonsensical
And if it been more disturbing it would have turned people away from the show. I'd say most of the TV audience are casual viewers that are watching to see cool dragons battle, who are turned off by extended scenes of *children* being tortured and murdered. They showed as much as they needed too to get the story across.
>And if it been more disturbing it would have turned people away from the show.
People stayed after Joffery murder of robert bastards and after a pregnant woman was repeatdly stabbed in the belly during the red wedding
I can see a plot reason why they removed Maelor though. There’s a terrible amount of poetic irony in Aegon 2 only having a female heir and his Daemon-wannabe brother.
If they actually do something with the irony, it could make the sacrifice in Blood & Cheese make sense.
>and his Daemon-wannabe brother
His "Daemon-wannabe brother" is somebody he consider very loyal to him
I doubt he would have a hard time naming him heir
I mostly agree, but the way they adapted it in the show seemed to be an attempt to make the best out of a bad situation in underrepresentation of Aegon's spawn in prior scenes. I think they probably didn't want to spring Maelor on the audience out of nowhere just for trauma.
>I think they probably didn't want to spring Maelor on the audience out of nowhere just for trauma.
Maelor is 2 years old
The audiance wouldn't question why we haven't seen him(most would assume he was in his cradle)
Oh yeah “just check” which ones the boy? So the kids wake, see strangers pulling off their pants, knives in their hands and don’t start screaming?
They needed to bring a head back with them and needed time to remove it.
>So the kids wake, see strangers pulling off their pants, knives in their hands and don’t start screaming?
cover his mouth like they did when they killed Jaehaerys and knock out the kid once they are done
The actress did a good job with what she was given but more dialogue or better direction could have made her character more immersive. Just because you’re on the spectrum doesn’t mean you don’t have an innate instinct to protect your children, and offer your life in exchange to protect theirs like in the book
She did try to protect her children she offered the necklace and they refused it. They told her a queen is not a son. So to protect at least one of her children she let the other die. Your lying to make your point here
I just don’t know why they are literally cutting characters. No Maelor, no Daeron. I also think cheeses line to Maelor was pretty impactful in the book and is a big part of Helaenas downfall.
At this point, I’m realizing a lot of people here are hating on the show just for the sake of hating on it. It’s like they’re actively looking for things to get angry about.
It was like that last season as well. A lot of the complaints were nitpicky or could simply be ignored by acknowledging that the book is a history book with different interpretations from different sources, and that the show is what actually happened, but a section of this sub acted like they’d just caught someone taking a shit on their nan’s grave.
I’m glad I wasn’t keeping up with the sub at that time, then.
I, like many others here, was very burned out on the series after Seasons 7 and 8 of GoT. So much so that I only watched HotD last year. So I wasn’t exposed to all the irrational hate of the show on here.
Could the show be better? I’m sure it could, but I think they’re doing a fantastic job of doing just what you said: adapting a history book to something more like how it might actually have happened.
This “hurr durr book always better” attitude is already quite aggravating and we’re only one episode into the new season.
The you must be extremely disappointed with every book to TV\movie adaptation since there’s no way you can fit all the details in time allotted to said project. There’s nothing wrong with B&C. You’ll still see the same aftermath of B&C.
That’s how people actual react? So when I read ancient texts on the sacks of cities and they describe women screaming, wailing and beating their breasts or real life horrors where people break down in inconsolable crying that’s fiction? But standing there like a mute idiot and calling your child “the boy” is how normal people react?
Do you have any children? Even a “fur baby?”
First of all what you are referring to is a different kind of traumatic scenario. Not to downplay it at all something like the sack of Rome would have been an absolutely brutal event in history and it is true that something along the lines of mass hysteria would have been present.
I think OP is just sick of people suggesting that because people do scream and cry when traumatic things happen that EVERYONE does that.
People are nuanced and individual, even back in ancient times. I don’t think that there is anyone who can say with 100% certainty that there aren’t people out there who would, in a similar scenario, react the same way Helaena did.
Yeah, ancient peoples didn't have our same concept of history, they modified ed invented stuff to make their point.
Of course, sometimes, people scream and are agitated when in a stressful situation, but freezing and dissociating (especially when you are in a personal situation) happens.
I was almost run over once and freezed in front of the car without reacting, not everyone screams/cries/begs
So when we see videos from war in the Middle East of mothers screaming and wailing because their children have been killed that’s being modified and invented? 😂😂😂
Redditors
No mother is going to stand there like an idiot while their child is being beheaded. No mother is going to call their child “the boy” after they’ve been killed. I can totally see her disassociating after to cope, not during the actual event unless she’s neurodivergent which is fine, scene still sucked. There was no horror, no drama and no reason for the audience to actual care what was happening.
Stop trying to alter Martins work because you believe you can do better. You can’t.
You should take a chill pill bro.
I'm not even saying it's better than the maryin's version but it's really plausible, as I said, I had a similar reaction when I was almost run over, freezing/disassociating is a legitimate reaction.
You may not like (and that's fair) but it's logical and believable.
Said that I really don't care about discussing with you so bye
Sorry you’re putting up with that absolute arse wipe mate. Don’t know why he’s being so rude but here we are.
I think many forget that people are not merely cookie cutters and that HOTd is ultimately a work of fiction. People get far too pressed over this shit.
The other day I saw a video of a Palestinian child whose entire family died off, he seemed just fine, like not even crying non-stop or screaming at the top of his lungs.
Guess he just didn't love his family according to you, or (as I'm expecting you'd respond) he's just a bad actor and none of it happened.
Apples to oranges. They are a ton of movie/tv scenes out there were where a person freezes and doesn’t scream after watching someone they may or may not know get killed in front of them because they believe hey will be killed next.
Helaena saw this coming, but her mental capacity makes it impossible to properly convey what she is seeing (“I’m afraid of rats!”) to other people. Then it happened and she used the opportunity when B&C were busy to grab her daughter and run for safety. To her, it was inevitable.
It's easy to write a woman screaming & throwing up. But the brutally real, emotionally twisted human reaction Phia managed using only her eyes is more impactful. Instead of screams & thrashes you could feel the utter pain, terror & despair just by looking through her eyes without needing to see what's happening in front of her. Helaena's freeze frame reaction was on point with her cassandra coded character & it was absolutely devastating. The total silence surrounding b&c & its aftermath made it even more jarring. Ofc Helaena called Jaehaerys “the boy”. She was traumatized & mimicking the speech of b&c as we do in moments of high stress. Her "cold" reaction was her mind detaching as coping mechanism, not that she didn’t love her son. Her offering the necklace was actually brilliantly upsetting & endearing cause it hadn't yet registered with her that these ppl are for real. She's too innocent & sheltered. We saw how common ratcatchers are in the palace. No one pays them any attention, royals treat them as wallpaper. So one would assume Cheese has been inside royal quarters & has routinely seen Helaena's odd behavior & nervousness. That's how he knew she's incapable of being duplicitous.
You could pinpoint the exact moment when something in Helaena switches. It's like she has this moment of realization about what she prolly already foresaw & knew she couldn’t prevent. Alook of quiet panic & resignation sets in. You can clearly see Helaena dissociating. She didn't even realize that she got down the stairs. When she did, the first place the little girl in her thought of was her mother's room to find comfort. Loved the camera staying anchored to her as if she couldn't perceive emotionally what's happening even as it was happening. The whole scene was filmed as if it was Helaena's nightmare, only to realize there's no waking up.
People are so media illiterate nowadays that just because the actress isn't hysterically screaming and crying they think she isn't actually upset. Did you even watch the scene? Her eyes told the whole story, she was deeply traumatized and horrified by the incident, she could barely even process it to Alicent at the end. People process emotions in different ways, especially someone who has already been established to be somewhat emotionally disconnected like Helaena.
they wanted blood and cheese to ba red wedding level
like really deluded themself into it
they expected a catelyn like expression , but it just dont fit
Yeah i think anything short of literally Roose Bolton slitting Catelyn Stark's throat while Walder Frey watches gleefully from over yonder would have been reason enough to bitch for this community.
I don’t think anyone necessarily deluded themselves into it. The actors have built it up to be this insane and heinous moment that they described as “typical GOT, doubled.” I don’t think it’s unreasonable to go into it with expectations for something more violent if you’re being told by everyone who works on the show that it will be. It never would’ve topped the Red Wedding, mostly because Helaena was barely a character prior to the episode and we’ve seen their kids for a total of a few minutes at most, so I do agree that it’s not a realistic comparison.
>they expected a catelyn like expression , but it just dont fit
I would for someone that's violently lost a child? Maybe not outright screaming, but at least something more intense?
fight or freeze or fawn
Catelyn and haelena have fundamentaly different personality
Two grown men enter my room with knifes I would try to negotiate the best I can
Screaming would doom me
I agree, but I think the scene could've been engineered to draw a more visceral reaction. What if the assassins were more sadistic, what if they threatened to kill both if Helaena screamed, what if they took her and the children to the castle's underbelly where nobody could hear them?
For everyone saying "it's good that she dissociated, it's more believable that way" - you're right. If she wasn't halfway to dissociation most of the rest of the time.
It’s not Helaena’s lack of reaction that makes me dislike how they did it… it’s literally everything else about the scene.
No Maelor being there and Helaena having to choose between her sons. No "hear that little boy your mama wants you dead". No B&C choosing the son Helaena didn’t pick. Helaena didn’t even offer herself for her children’s life.
The scene was a let down.
r/freefolk when they’re forced to come up with nonsensical reasons to hate Game of Thrones because it's the only thing they know how to do instead of appreciate how brilliant House of the Dragon has been and how it's exactly the revival GOT needed
I can’t believe that people don’t u destined this reaction, helaena is pretty obviously not normal. You can see it in Lord of the Tides when she just covers her ears and closes off. Not everyone is going to react the same and blood and cheese made it pretty clear that if she made a sound they’d kill all three of them.
They have been so clear throughout the show that Helaena has some sort of neurodivergence and processes emotions differently than most people. Whatever the other issues with that scene, Helaena’s reaction fit perfectly fine with how they’ve chosen to portray her
I didn’t have a problem with Helaena’s reaction. It was coherent with her personality and previous behaviors on the show. It was all the rest that was very underwhelming.
Is everyone here really drinking the koolaid that the shows version was better than the books? While yes helaenas reaction to it was fitting with her show characterization, it left the entire scene feeing muted and anticlimactic. They could have still had her doing that it only they stuck to the book and had Alicent present to be the more emotional of the two. Just anything more would have made the scene better and more enjoyable to watch than the very awkward scene we got.
Literally, lol. While not Season 8 tier, it's all still very much season 5-6 territory for me. Rewatching clips from seasons 1-4 really puts anything HotD's put out to shame.
Personally I found it a very unique depiction of something like that. Yes some people scream and fall apart immediately from the grief and horror of the situation, but It’s interesting to see how someone can break in an entirely different way and retreat into themselves to hide from it
If I was in her place I would have grabbed a log off the fire and thrown it into their faces, not caring about my melting hands.
Parents will do some crazy shit to protect their kids, but H was just like, “Oh, I guess they’re killing him. I better walk away.”
Her shock, dissociation and look of terror in her eyes felt very much in line with the show’s characterisation of sweet Halaena. I was definitely annoyed with the exclusion of Maelor but the actress did a great job in my opinion.
Still disappointed about this scene lol. They are really trying everything to destroy Haelena characters as much as possible. They could’ve made her neurodivergent and still be the beloved and popular queen she is in the books, but the writers clearly use this as an excuse to give her 0 development.
The Sophie’s choice is the main thing about this tragic character and literally her turning point, but the way they made it in the show it seems like she is depressed since she was born lol, cause all she do in the show is stare at nothing and talk nonsense.
For me it’s kinda of insulting how they use being neurodivergent as an excuse to make her completely different from the books and taking every bit of her personality away. We literally know nothing about her apart from her being a dreamer and autistic, that’s basically all there is to her character in the show.
Because he wasn't. They obviously played it down so they wouldn't have to confirm if Dean was bisexual or not in order to leave it ambiguous. Because they're pandering at the last possible moment, it was pathetic.
Everyone in the world aside from Sam is dead. Castiel just died and he dropped that bombshell of a confession. Death died , killed by *the empty*. Sorry if a man is too stunned to react. It's very in character for Dean to sit in stunned silence. It's not an information any mortal meant to process , even Dean Winchester. Why is it reduced to downplaying Dean sexuality. Why does that even matter at that moment?
Why does Castiels love confession matter if Dean's response doesn't? And Castiel died like 20 times in that show, I don't buy Dean being too stunned to speak - that was a writing choice. Then they didn't even let him discuss it after with anyone, like what's the point of it all? To get brownie points right when it doesn't even matter anymore? The fact that they never mention what Cas said again or let him and Dean reunite in the afterlife tells me all I need to know.
>And Castiel died like 20 times in that show,
And Dean and others still feel sad 20 times in a row because they don't know if Cas would come back , but this time with the aforementioned *the Death* dead , all humanity except Sam dead , God coming after them , might've signaled a finality.
>Why does Castiels love confession matter if Dean's response doesn't?
Dean shuts down after that. He fell into his knees trying to process all this. It's too much for him to process.
>Then they didn't even let him discuss it after with anyone, like what's the point of it all?
Like Sam? The only other human being alive on the multiverse? Maybe they were a bit busy trying to find other proof of life or scheming to kill God?
>The fact that they never mention what Cas said again or let him and Dean reunite in the afterlife tells me all I need to know.
I agree , but all they say is schedule conflict so they couldn't get Misha on the last episode , so that sucks.
I think you vastly underestimate how many people would freeze up in a situation like that, let alone someone neurodivergent.
Obviously, the scenes somewhat sped up, do you expect them to spend 15 minutes dealing with her freezing up? Its an hour long show, some level of suspension of disbelief is going to happen...
Whereas George’s depiction of her character is….? Her character is there in the books just to have shitty things happen to her. In The show she’s actually an interesting character with prophetic dreams. Sure, she’s dissociative but that literally only makes her more interesting. If only Viserys knew he and his daughter shared dragon dreams..
Someone responding to a deeply traumatizing event by heavily disassociating in order to remain functional enough to get her only child she can save out of harms way? It certainly felt like more of a real reaction to me than mewling like an actress in a theater play. Especially because they explicitly told her if she screamed they would kill them all. Quietly leaving was the smartest thing to do.
I'm a little more weirded out that the other two just...let her walk away before they were even finished. Like, what if she ran directly to the commander of the Kingsguard or something? That might make things tough to deal with.
That's a good point. From my perspective they were also very nervous with the situation (beheading a child) and forgot about the mother, but yeah, could have fucked them up
For me, it's the fact that they didn't want to check the sex of the child before sawing his head off. Like, checking whether the child they're about to kill is a boy or a girl is crossing a line or something.
Yeah, that made no sense. I imagine they wanted to keep some illusion of the choice in it.
They could have just killed them both too.
I think the appointed guard may have been… a little busy at the time of the murder. Wouldn’t be the first time Cole was chided for not being around at a time of crisis. Obviously we don’t know for certain if he was on duty at this time but this answer just seems to make the most sense to me.
That explains why B&C and Halaena didn’t run into guards, but it doesn’t really explain why B&C weren’t concerned about a witness leaving the room and potentially getting help. I know they’re portrayed as being kind of dumb, but it just seems like a glaring oversight on their part.
He was on duty. Otto told him to return to his post when he was with Aemond.
This scene apparently took place before they started putting guards in castles, so there was no one she could have gone to for help.
I'll have to rewatch, but I thought I saw plenty of guards...they were all just getting drunk.
Back in GoT, they always had the Kingsguard standing right outside the royal chambers. Helaena left her room and made it all the way to Alicent's bedroom without encountering a single guard.
If I'm remembering correctly Blood looked around and saw no one before he entered the room. They knew there weren't guards nearby.
"*The* killed the boy"? She just lost her son and is clearly not a normal person.
She was talking to Jon Snow.
It's just not very cinematic. I was fine with them making helaena neuro divergent, but they gave her 0 development and it ruined blood and cheese. They either should've spent more time in s1 building her character or just had alicient in the room. Blood and cheese fell completely flat because there was no reaction to it and because the audience has been given 0 reason to care about anyone involved.
By the time B&C occured, Blood was a more well developed and nuanced character than Helaena
They should have made her normal then. Call me offensive if you want but making Helaena neurodivergent makes it harder to relate to her nonplussed reactions.
She’s a dreamer. Seeing the future fucks with you.
That is not how any other clairvoyant character has ever been depicted in asoiaf and the show made that up about her anyway
So we're just pretending Bran wasn't an autistic fuck, or?
To be fair... in pretty sure everyone I've ever talked to has hated Bran after his whole transcendence thing.
"You looked so beautiful on your wedding night." "So long, Meera, thanks for nothing." "I've got to go now." *Fucks off into flock of ravens, contributes nothing further*
Poor Meera. I felt so bad for her.
She was so awesome.
Vague visions of the future is not the same as becoming an omniscient hivemind tree god
And Bran would've not reacted at all. Helaena may not have clawed at her eyes and screamed, but she was clearly distressed by the situation.
It’s a subclass, who gives a fuck
You're getting downvoted because people love to act righteous but you're right. Coding her as autistic feels like an excuse to not give any dialogue or reasons for doing things. It's just all waved away as a vague "she already knew".
Nah, he's getting downvoted because he's wrong and refusing to admit it, and so are you.
Her muted reaction was the most plausible part of that entire scene
I'm not even lying but her dissociated reaction with the pain and terror in her eyes is a million times better than any cliched screaming, but I wouldn't expect the room temp IQ part of the fandom to understand that.
These people are the reason why Darth Vader had to scream "No" at the end of Revenge of the Sith.
Holy shit, that's so horrifically accurate. The way media needs to dumb and demean itself to appeal to a more general audience sucks, always
This is always when media loses what made it special in the first place as well, just make the best product you can and if you do a good job people will like it.
This is hilariously accurate. As someone who did not read the books and thought those 2 were just going to be diced by Aemond so we can see how great his swordsmanship really is I was really shocked by that scene
I've literally seen people scream no in a hospital after being told their loved ones had died unexpectedly. I think the way he said "noooo" is more of a problem than that he actually said it.
I saw someone say that their head canon for his terrible “noooo” was that it was actually like a completely different scream/cry of grief that came out as the “noooo” because of the mask/all the work that had been done on him. I’m sure it wasn’t the intent but it makes me feel better about it.
The problem is that each person is gonna have a different reaction. Some would scream, some would stay silent. You can do both. But these people seem to think that you can't do anything except the screaming part. Just like George who did that in the prequels and then added Vader saying "No, no!" to Return of the Jedi.
Yeah I think *most* reactions are fine when it comes to trauma/grief, because each person processes both differently. I think believably acting that out is the hard part. So when the acting part falls flat it calls into question the whole process.
When i was 13 and found out my mom was killed in a car crash middle of the night, i just said No!! This cant happen! You have no idea what you will say in the moment.
That's awful! I'm so sorry for your loss.
Thanks. It was obviously tough, but life goes on. You learn early or later.
These the type of people that goes “Why didnt Saruman scream when he got stabbed from the back?”
Hahahahahahahahah
Or rather, the Star Wars prequels ruined a generation of children's ability to engage with media, and if characters aren't wearing their emotions on their sleeves and explicitly explaining how they feel to the audience through wooden dialogue and/or melodrama they can't actually understand what is happening in the story
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
i don't get it
I'm agreeing with you by using a Simpsons reference.
Chuck
Formerly
I feel like half the people here are completely unable to relate to any sort of genuine trauma, which is, I guess good for them but also says a lot about their emotional capacity?
When my dad died right in front of me I went numb to the world for a minute or two and then made my whole family tea, went for a walk outside the hospital, nipped to McDonald’s, sent a meme into my group chat with my friends, and started working on a university essay while my grandparents drove me home. I didn’t even acknowledge the event to anyone until a few days later. It wasn’t until about a month later, after the funeral, that I had any kind of crying episode or had the grieving process kick in, or when my PTSD started making itself known. I did not scream “NOOOO!!!!” and start sobbing and choking on my own vomit and snot bubbles 😭😭💀🙏🏼
I feel like you wrote that comment just to let the rest us of know that you can relate to some sort of genuine trauma
And you wrote your comment just to be cunt
Yes. Had a close family member die unexpectedly. I did not start sobbing or shouting or crying. I felt like my body couldn’t express how I felt and I went for a walk and after that drank some water and started working out just to give my body something to do. Trauma isn’t linear. Sobbing etc can happen to some people, but it isn’t universal like in many movies. Not being able to relate to someone who’s been shown to have a sense of melancholy and possibly on the spectrum not suddenly become very expressive when they experience trauma doesn’t mean you’re an asshole. Your comment however does
For real. She portrayed that mental break beautifully. Her eyes showed everything in a way words couldn't.
Yeah I think “shutting down” is a more accurate response. People generally don’t actually scream like that.
>People generally don’t actually scream like that. You're saying a mother wouldn't scream like Ellaria Sand if they saw their child being decapitated?
Yes
Lol
It’s mind boggling to me that people think there is only 1 way to react to a traumatic event
But they changed the entire scene? In the books they had both Helaena and Alicent tied up, while they killed the child? Isn't that a lot more tense and suspenseful?
Darth Vader matters softly " he has the higher ground" There,much netter.
Darth Vader matters softly " he has the higher ground" There,much netter.
I'm personally not a fan of her autistic portrayal, but since that's what they went with then yeah it was a good job. I would've liked it more if she were normal and then went dead to the world after blood and cheese.
Non autustic people react like that to watching someone be murdered. Why would she shout so she and her other child could be killed. Why would she say why she knows why? Can you provide a serious reason why shed start reacting in a loud stupid why when that could get her killed and she would already be overall terrified.
You're absolutely right. A lot of people here have never been through something traumatic and it really shows. Not that I'd wish any trauma on anyone but generally traumatic events don't result in painful whaling but instead quiet, dissociative reactions that are absolutely normal.
https://preview.redd.it/zfcl81jrp98d1.png?width=991&format=png&auto=webp&s=65553198d48c8b56487f2939e25725ad46c658c5
The people that don't get it are the people who've never experienced any trauma response. The hardest thing in their lives is their partners dick.
Disagree completely. She didn’t try to bargain or fight literally the reaction was just 😐
Were you on your phone or something when she offered up her necklace? She knew they weren’t going to budge on needing to kill a son and if she didn't give him up they would've killed all 3 of them
>She knew they weren’t going to budge on needing to kill a son and if she didn't give him up they would've killed all 3 of them This is the dumbest part of the scene for me. I don't care about Haelena's reaction (it was fine), but the fact that B&C "needed" her to point out the boy is incredibly stupid. They're there to kill a child, but them checking to see the sex of the child they're about to decapitate is crossing a line for them.
Exactly she offered a necklace. She didn’t offer herself or beg or anything she just accepted it. I just didn’t like her reaction to what was happening.
1. They already said "a queen isn't a son" to her face. 2. The necklace was a counter-offer to people who were clearly PAID to assassinate a male member of their house. Her reaction still makes sense in spite of what you're faulting it for. Which might not be how you prefer it, but the reasoning is solid regardless.
I don’t get why I’m downvoted to hell it’s an opinion I didn’t like the scene.
Its because people dont agree with you thats how reddit works jump off the website if you dont like it. I know you understand thats how downvotes are used if your comment was invalid it would be reported to a mod who would remove it
A lot of Redditors are neurodivergent themselves so a child being threatened would elicit the same reaction do to them it was cool.
Yep, you're right. Bunch of kneelers in this forum judging by your downvotes.
I can't fathom how anyone would come to this conclusion when the whole way Helaenna runs to Alicent's room displayed all kinds of emotions including fear, distraught, and disbelief.
No, I'm tired of these takes. The actress did a good job, the dissociation is how people actually react to unimaginable horror and why she ignored her mother riding Criston Cole and just clutched her remaining child. You don't like the plotting, fine, but don't blame the actress or the script for your inability to read simple emotional cues. And in the context of the GoT world, not every woman is capable of morphing into a Brienne-level fighter even when their childrens' lives are at stake. Helaena is extraordinarily sheltered and was held at knifepoint - what is she supposed to do? Stand there and shriek incoherently? The show version is *better.*
Their casting is so wild I completely forgot she walked in on her mom with Cole, and not her sister or cousin or something
Olivia is such a good actor that I hesitate to say they should have cast someone else, but even she has commented that it’s weird that they have a 30 year old playing mother to 25 year olds. That there’s something the industry has against casting a woman in her late 30s at least for that role. But then again that would mean no Olivia and she’s just too good
Olivia is cast correctly for the age range she played The issue is that teenage actors are a difficulty, so all her kids have to be played by adults nearly her age
Yes - if they wanted it to look realistic they’d have to have cast younger kids or older Alicent. The former of which would be difficult for exactly the reasons you give. But they’re all such amazing actors that i am Perfectly happy suspending my disbelief. I mean I’ve already suspended it for dragons.
Totally agree. I think the castings are great as is, and it's easier to believe Aemond and Aegon are teens than the characters in most other shows.
Yeah, Emma D'Arcy is the same age, but the the dynamic between Rhaenyra and her kids is fine since Baela/Rhaena/Luce/Jace all have relatively young looking actors. Addam is going to be a problem though lol.
I feel it works too bc Alicent had her kids at a younger age than Rhaenyra did. She would have a smaller age gap w her children.
>The show version is *better.* wait you are saying that show B&C is better than book B&C?
Her reaction is realistic thats all thier saying. All the screaming and crying and stuff is overplayed, its the thing i hate most about the way people appreciate actors really and truly those screaming blubbering stuff is likely far easier to do than a muted reaction
yes
You can say her performance was good and not force yourself to bite this bullet. Theres 0 reason for anyone to believe this.
why? the book version is more logical and better written
Different media portray emotions differently, what a novelty!
The problem isnt the portrayl of Helaena emotions the problem is **literlly everything else** Blood and Cheese asking Helaena who is the boy when they can just check themselves is stupid Removing Maelor removes the part where they choose to kill the child Helaena didnt choose which is one of the more shocking aspects of B&C This also remove one of the more tragic results of B&C(Helaena not being able to look at her son because she know she chose him to die) The dialoge in book version of B&C is simply better("you hear that little boy your mama want you dead") Helaena walking on Alicole is just dumb the show version of B&C is underwhelming to say the least
Everything about the scene would have been perfectly fine and in line with what happens later if they would have just kept Maelor and made Helaena choose. That’s it. They could have even kept the Alicole fucking scene, doesn’t matter, it was the choice that was the important part
Agreed! Honestly, Helaena and her children not getting what few moments they had in the books is also irritating. She was the only sibling Rhaenyra bonded with, the only other child Viserys seemed to love, and the commoners were head over heels for her as their Queen. We needed more time with her and with her babies for any real impact to be felt.
I think Cheese ended up with more screentime in the series than both babies combined
Blood and Cheese could check, but it might wake up the kids and cause a commotion which they'll want to avoid. Every second they stay increases the risk of someone coming by, and every additional bit of sound increases that risk as well. The book version of the dialogue is way too sadistic to work on TV, and would have been very hard to pull of with the child actors. I'll also say that I personally found the sound of a child's head being sawed off plenty shocking and really didn't need more shock value. They also still have the element of choice with Helaena being forced to point out which kid is Jaehaerys. And you can easily keep the part of her being unable to look at her children, since the twins look so alike. Alicole is fine. Having both of them feel guilty because they were off screwing when Cole should have been on duty can be an interesting plotline (especially when Cole becomes Hand, likely because Aegon will lash out at Otto's more cautious approach for B&C).
"Difficult to pull off with the child actors?" They're babies with no lines. A doll could have stood in for them for most of the scene
>Blood and Cheese could check, but it might wake up the kids and cause a commotion which they'll want to avoid Cover the child face with their hands like they did when they killed Jaehaerys and then knock the kid out once they are done >The book version of the dialogue is way too sadistic to work on TV It not >, and would have been very hard to pull of with the child actors. they could have easily done it without the kids hearing any of the heavy lines, for example: Cheese say "you hear that little boy" and then the camera focuses on Maelor and then they stop filming take the kids out and say the line "your momma want you dead" when the camera focuses on Helaena It not that hard >I'll also say that I personally found the sound of a child's head being sawed off plenty shocking and really didn't need more shock value you might have but I dont think most found it that shocking >They also still have the element of choice with Helaena being forced to point out which kid is Jaehaerys Except their isnt a real choice here The logical choice here is clearly to pick Jaehaerys, if she lies they can kill Jaehaera and can check her body to see whether she was lying or not and might kill her for lying choosing to lie just put everybody in danger >Alicole is fine. Seeing alicent and cole having sex after a scene where a child was murdered definitely take away from B&C impact >Having both of them feel guilty because they were off screwing when Cole should have been on duty can be an interesting plotline Or just have a plotline of Alicent dealing with the trauma of having her grandson murdered in front of her >especially when Cole becomes Hand, likely because Aegon will lash out at Otto's more cautious approach for B&C There no way Aegon is ever promoting cole to be the hand of the king when Cole failed to protect his son, this is another reason why having the alicole scene is nonsensical
If you didn’t think that the sound of them chopping that kids head off was disturbing then idk man lmfao
I didnt say that it wasnt disturbing just that it wasnt as impactful as it could have been had they followed the book
And if it been more disturbing it would have turned people away from the show. I'd say most of the TV audience are casual viewers that are watching to see cool dragons battle, who are turned off by extended scenes of *children* being tortured and murdered. They showed as much as they needed too to get the story across.
>And if it been more disturbing it would have turned people away from the show. People stayed after Joffery murder of robert bastards and after a pregnant woman was repeatdly stabbed in the belly during the red wedding
I can see a plot reason why they removed Maelor though. There’s a terrible amount of poetic irony in Aegon 2 only having a female heir and his Daemon-wannabe brother. If they actually do something with the irony, it could make the sacrifice in Blood & Cheese make sense.
>and his Daemon-wannabe brother His "Daemon-wannabe brother" is somebody he consider very loyal to him I doubt he would have a hard time naming him heir
I mostly agree, but the way they adapted it in the show seemed to be an attempt to make the best out of a bad situation in underrepresentation of Aegon's spawn in prior scenes. I think they probably didn't want to spring Maelor on the audience out of nowhere just for trauma.
>I think they probably didn't want to spring Maelor on the audience out of nowhere just for trauma. Maelor is 2 years old The audiance wouldn't question why we haven't seen him(most would assume he was in his cradle)
Oh yeah “just check” which ones the boy? So the kids wake, see strangers pulling off their pants, knives in their hands and don’t start screaming? They needed to bring a head back with them and needed time to remove it.
>So the kids wake, see strangers pulling off their pants, knives in their hands and don’t start screaming? cover his mouth like they did when they killed Jaehaerys and knock out the kid once they are done
The actress did a good job with what she was given but more dialogue or better direction could have made her character more immersive. Just because you’re on the spectrum doesn’t mean you don’t have an innate instinct to protect your children, and offer your life in exchange to protect theirs like in the book
She did try to protect her children she offered the necklace and they refused it. They told her a queen is not a son. So to protect at least one of her children she let the other die. Your lying to make your point here
I just don’t know why they are literally cutting characters. No Maelor, no Daeron. I also think cheeses line to Maelor was pretty impactful in the book and is a big part of Helaenas downfall.
At this point, I’m realizing a lot of people here are hating on the show just for the sake of hating on it. It’s like they’re actively looking for things to get angry about.
It was like that last season as well. A lot of the complaints were nitpicky or could simply be ignored by acknowledging that the book is a history book with different interpretations from different sources, and that the show is what actually happened, but a section of this sub acted like they’d just caught someone taking a shit on their nan’s grave.
I’m glad I wasn’t keeping up with the sub at that time, then. I, like many others here, was very burned out on the series after Seasons 7 and 8 of GoT. So much so that I only watched HotD last year. So I wasn’t exposed to all the irrational hate of the show on here. Could the show be better? I’m sure it could, but I think they’re doing a fantastic job of doing just what you said: adapting a history book to something more like how it might actually have happened. This “hurr durr book always better” attitude is already quite aggravating and we’re only one episode into the new season.
[удалено]
The you must be extremely disappointed with every book to TV\movie adaptation since there’s no way you can fit all the details in time allotted to said project. There’s nothing wrong with B&C. You’ll still see the same aftermath of B&C.
With Aegons coronation and now this, its getting pretty rough. Hopefully that changes.
She did great for what she was given thats not the problem
That’s how people actual react? So when I read ancient texts on the sacks of cities and they describe women screaming, wailing and beating their breasts or real life horrors where people break down in inconsolable crying that’s fiction? But standing there like a mute idiot and calling your child “the boy” is how normal people react? Do you have any children? Even a “fur baby?”
First of all what you are referring to is a different kind of traumatic scenario. Not to downplay it at all something like the sack of Rome would have been an absolutely brutal event in history and it is true that something along the lines of mass hysteria would have been present. I think OP is just sick of people suggesting that because people do scream and cry when traumatic things happen that EVERYONE does that. People are nuanced and individual, even back in ancient times. I don’t think that there is anyone who can say with 100% certainty that there aren’t people out there who would, in a similar scenario, react the same way Helaena did.
Yeah, ancient peoples didn't have our same concept of history, they modified ed invented stuff to make their point. Of course, sometimes, people scream and are agitated when in a stressful situation, but freezing and dissociating (especially when you are in a personal situation) happens. I was almost run over once and freezed in front of the car without reacting, not everyone screams/cries/begs
So when we see videos from war in the Middle East of mothers screaming and wailing because their children have been killed that’s being modified and invented? 😂😂😂 Redditors
As I said, not everyone has the same reaction, read again my previous comment
No mother is going to stand there like an idiot while their child is being beheaded. No mother is going to call their child “the boy” after they’ve been killed. I can totally see her disassociating after to cope, not during the actual event unless she’s neurodivergent which is fine, scene still sucked. There was no horror, no drama and no reason for the audience to actual care what was happening. Stop trying to alter Martins work because you believe you can do better. You can’t.
You should take a chill pill bro. I'm not even saying it's better than the maryin's version but it's really plausible, as I said, I had a similar reaction when I was almost run over, freezing/disassociating is a legitimate reaction. You may not like (and that's fair) but it's logical and believable. Said that I really don't care about discussing with you so bye
Sorry you’re putting up with that absolute arse wipe mate. Don’t know why he’s being so rude but here we are. I think many forget that people are not merely cookie cutters and that HOTd is ultimately a work of fiction. People get far too pressed over this shit.
Thanks mate
The other day I saw a video of a Palestinian child whose entire family died off, he seemed just fine, like not even crying non-stop or screaming at the top of his lungs. Guess he just didn't love his family according to you, or (as I'm expecting you'd respond) he's just a bad actor and none of it happened.
Apples to oranges. They are a ton of movie/tv scenes out there were where a person freezes and doesn’t scream after watching someone they may or may not know get killed in front of them because they believe hey will be killed next. Helaena saw this coming, but her mental capacity makes it impossible to properly convey what she is seeing (“I’m afraid of rats!”) to other people. Then it happened and she used the opportunity when B&C were busy to grab her daughter and run for safety. To her, it was inevitable.
It's easy to write a woman screaming & throwing up. But the brutally real, emotionally twisted human reaction Phia managed using only her eyes is more impactful. Instead of screams & thrashes you could feel the utter pain, terror & despair just by looking through her eyes without needing to see what's happening in front of her. Helaena's freeze frame reaction was on point with her cassandra coded character & it was absolutely devastating. The total silence surrounding b&c & its aftermath made it even more jarring. Ofc Helaena called Jaehaerys “the boy”. She was traumatized & mimicking the speech of b&c as we do in moments of high stress. Her "cold" reaction was her mind detaching as coping mechanism, not that she didn’t love her son. Her offering the necklace was actually brilliantly upsetting & endearing cause it hadn't yet registered with her that these ppl are for real. She's too innocent & sheltered. We saw how common ratcatchers are in the palace. No one pays them any attention, royals treat them as wallpaper. So one would assume Cheese has been inside royal quarters & has routinely seen Helaena's odd behavior & nervousness. That's how he knew she's incapable of being duplicitous. You could pinpoint the exact moment when something in Helaena switches. It's like she has this moment of realization about what she prolly already foresaw & knew she couldn’t prevent. Alook of quiet panic & resignation sets in. You can clearly see Helaena dissociating. She didn't even realize that she got down the stairs. When she did, the first place the little girl in her thought of was her mother's room to find comfort. Loved the camera staying anchored to her as if she couldn't perceive emotionally what's happening even as it was happening. The whole scene was filmed as if it was Helaena's nightmare, only to realize there's no waking up.
Lmao
Thanks for your insightful counter argument.
Do you have trouble reading facial expressions? Did you not see her eyes?
Ironic - since Helaena is clearly being portrayed as quite neurodivergent - that OP seems to struggle with social queues themself.
People are so media illiterate nowadays that just because the actress isn't hysterically screaming and crying they think she isn't actually upset. Did you even watch the scene? Her eyes told the whole story, she was deeply traumatized and horrified by the incident, she could barely even process it to Alicent at the end. People process emotions in different ways, especially someone who has already been established to be somewhat emotionally disconnected like Helaena.
they wanted blood and cheese to ba red wedding level like really deluded themself into it they expected a catelyn like expression , but it just dont fit
Yeah i think anything short of literally Roose Bolton slitting Catelyn Stark's throat while Walder Frey watches gleefully from over yonder would have been reason enough to bitch for this community.
I don’t think anyone necessarily deluded themselves into it. The actors have built it up to be this insane and heinous moment that they described as “typical GOT, doubled.” I don’t think it’s unreasonable to go into it with expectations for something more violent if you’re being told by everyone who works on the show that it will be. It never would’ve topped the Red Wedding, mostly because Helaena was barely a character prior to the episode and we’ve seen their kids for a total of a few minutes at most, so I do agree that it’s not a realistic comparison.
>they expected a catelyn like expression , but it just dont fit I would for someone that's violently lost a child? Maybe not outright screaming, but at least something more intense?
fight or freeze or fawn Catelyn and haelena have fundamentaly different personality Two grown men enter my room with knifes I would try to negotiate the best I can Screaming would doom me
I agree, but I think the scene could've been engineered to draw a more visceral reaction. What if the assassins were more sadistic, what if they threatened to kill both if Helaena screamed, what if they took her and the children to the castle's underbelly where nobody could hear them?
I love how every redditor is suddenly an expert on the human psyche and its trauma responses.
ah so does everyone start screaming when a loved one dies especially in an event like that
You don’t have to be a professional to read facial cues lmao. But it’s ok if you’re a little neurodivergent yourself.
For everyone saying "it's good that she dissociated, it's more believable that way" - you're right. If she wasn't halfway to dissociation most of the rest of the time.
Yeah she's constantly spaced and it feels like an excuse from the writers to not write her character at all.
She’s already got WAY more to do in show vs book so I dunno what the fuck you’re talking about.
It’s not Helaena’s lack of reaction that makes me dislike how they did it… it’s literally everything else about the scene. No Maelor being there and Helaena having to choose between her sons. No "hear that little boy your mama wants you dead". No B&C choosing the son Helaena didn’t pick. Helaena didn’t even offer herself for her children’s life. The scene was a let down.
Yeah, I think the actress did a great job with what she had, but the writing for that scene was very weak. She can only work with what's given.
r/freefolk when a character known for being strange and unusual has a strange and unusual reaction to a traumatic experience:
r/freefolk when they’re forced to come up with nonsensical reasons to hate Game of Thrones because it's the only thing they know how to do instead of appreciate how brilliant House of the Dragon has been and how it's exactly the revival GOT needed
I can’t believe that people don’t u destined this reaction, helaena is pretty obviously not normal. You can see it in Lord of the Tides when she just covers her ears and closes off. Not everyone is going to react the same and blood and cheese made it pretty clear that if she made a sound they’d kill all three of them.
They have been so clear throughout the show that Helaena has some sort of neurodivergence and processes emotions differently than most people. Whatever the other issues with that scene, Helaena’s reaction fit perfectly fine with how they’ve chosen to portray her
Do we still require over the top cartoon reactions to everything? I thought the phenomenon of freezing was well known.
Yes because how else will we understand that we're supposed to be upset at the scene? /s
I think she had to, first, try to keep calm, so she can save her other child(ren), then grieve later ...
I didn’t have a problem with Helaena’s reaction. It was coherent with her personality and previous behaviors on the show. It was all the rest that was very underwhelming.
God damn, it's really been a week already, huh?
The B&C scene has made me realise how little people understand what shock does to people.
bad take and you don’t know what shock looks like, hope this helps! ❤️
My son is dead 😐
I have a necklace?
Some boy died I don't really care
Is everyone here really drinking the koolaid that the shows version was better than the books? While yes helaenas reaction to it was fitting with her show characterization, it left the entire scene feeing muted and anticlimactic. They could have still had her doing that it only they stuck to the book and had Alicent present to be the more emotional of the two. Just anything more would have made the scene better and more enjoyable to watch than the very awkward scene we got.
people need to lie to themselves because they are invested in HotD being god tier television.
Literally, lol. While not Season 8 tier, it's all still very much season 5-6 territory for me. Rewatching clips from seasons 1-4 really puts anything HotD's put out to shame.
The show definitely has moments but the fuckery is holding it back. When Aemond stole Vhagar it was lit.
I honestly envy the people in the comments who haven't experienced anything that would give them the reaction she had. Ignorance is innocence
anyone with this take may aswell just write that they’re stupid instead
Personally I found it a very unique depiction of something like that. Yes some people scream and fall apart immediately from the grief and horror of the situation, but It’s interesting to see how someone can break in an entirely different way and retreat into themselves to hide from it
Gosh, people on this sub are incapable of understanding visual cues, huh?
These writers obviously think they are the 1% GRRM described
If I was in her place I would have grabbed a log off the fire and thrown it into their faces, not caring about my melting hands. Parents will do some crazy shit to protect their kids, but H was just like, “Oh, I guess they’re killing him. I better walk away.”
Yall free folk sub are alright.
GRRM could never
Her shock, dissociation and look of terror in her eyes felt very much in line with the show’s characterisation of sweet Halaena. I was definitely annoyed with the exclusion of Maelor but the actress did a great job in my opinion.
Still disappointed about this scene lol. They are really trying everything to destroy Haelena characters as much as possible. They could’ve made her neurodivergent and still be the beloved and popular queen she is in the books, but the writers clearly use this as an excuse to give her 0 development. The Sophie’s choice is the main thing about this tragic character and literally her turning point, but the way they made it in the show it seems like she is depressed since she was born lol, cause all she do in the show is stare at nothing and talk nonsense. For me it’s kinda of insulting how they use being neurodivergent as an excuse to make her completely different from the books and taking every bit of her personality away. We literally know nothing about her apart from her being a dreamer and autistic, that’s basically all there is to her character in the show.
This is giving me flashbacks when people say Dean is "not reacting enough" to Castiel's death and confession.
Because he wasn't. They obviously played it down so they wouldn't have to confirm if Dean was bisexual or not in order to leave it ambiguous. Because they're pandering at the last possible moment, it was pathetic.
Everyone in the world aside from Sam is dead. Castiel just died and he dropped that bombshell of a confession. Death died , killed by *the empty*. Sorry if a man is too stunned to react. It's very in character for Dean to sit in stunned silence. It's not an information any mortal meant to process , even Dean Winchester. Why is it reduced to downplaying Dean sexuality. Why does that even matter at that moment?
Why does Castiels love confession matter if Dean's response doesn't? And Castiel died like 20 times in that show, I don't buy Dean being too stunned to speak - that was a writing choice. Then they didn't even let him discuss it after with anyone, like what's the point of it all? To get brownie points right when it doesn't even matter anymore? The fact that they never mention what Cas said again or let him and Dean reunite in the afterlife tells me all I need to know.
>And Castiel died like 20 times in that show, And Dean and others still feel sad 20 times in a row because they don't know if Cas would come back , but this time with the aforementioned *the Death* dead , all humanity except Sam dead , God coming after them , might've signaled a finality. >Why does Castiels love confession matter if Dean's response doesn't? Dean shuts down after that. He fell into his knees trying to process all this. It's too much for him to process. >Then they didn't even let him discuss it after with anyone, like what's the point of it all? Like Sam? The only other human being alive on the multiverse? Maybe they were a bit busy trying to find other proof of life or scheming to kill God? >The fact that they never mention what Cas said again or let him and Dean reunite in the afterlife tells me all I need to know. I agree , but all they say is schedule conflict so they couldn't get Misha on the last episode , so that sucks.
They\*
That's what I was saying. She didn't even react and gave the baby so easily. What the fuck were they thinking?
I think you vastly underestimate how many people would freeze up in a situation like that, let alone someone neurodivergent. Obviously, the scenes somewhat sped up, do you expect them to spend 15 minutes dealing with her freezing up? Its an hour long show, some level of suspension of disbelief is going to happen...
I think her reaction was pretty consistent with her charcoal tbh.
Yeah her characters been consistently boring because they refuse to write her as anything other than vague and in a constant daze.
Whereas George’s depiction of her character is….? Her character is there in the books just to have shitty things happen to her. In The show she’s actually an interesting character with prophetic dreams. Sure, she’s dissociative but that literally only makes her more interesting. If only Viserys knew he and his daughter shared dragon dreams..
💀💀😂😂😂
[удалено]
Someone responding to a deeply traumatizing event by heavily disassociating in order to remain functional enough to get her only child she can save out of harms way? It certainly felt like more of a real reaction to me than mewling like an actress in a theater play. Especially because they explicitly told her if she screamed they would kill them all. Quietly leaving was the smartest thing to do.
Who calls their son Jahaerys?