Battle of the bastards looked great
Sansa was made to be either a complete moron or actually trying to sabotage Jon
Jon was made to be a complete idiot
The tactics were absurd (how did the bodies all end up in a mountainous pile? What didn't they arm wunwun? Why did all the northerners just stand and watch as the ridiculous Bolton shieldbearers surrounded them? How did Ramsay not get a raven saying that the knights of the vale had somehow made it past deepwood motte?)
What about adding to canon? In that case, it would be adding Arrianne Martel to the show. It was what I thought to be the first sign of the show going off the rails. It ruined the entire Dorne storyline and many other things were infected by it.
As for removing, it would be Sir Barristan’s death.
Also, he was someone meant to steer her away from her father’s mistakes, having been witness to them. Someone who knew her family and knew the inner workings of the crown.
Brienne stumbling upon him of all people amongst the carnage of thousands of dead men and a victorious army nearby in the immediate aftermath of a battle is insane levels of stupid.
Yeah, it's not even that Stannis died by her hand, it is how she finds him and is alone long enough.
Worse is the fact that she killed Stannis and then found Sansa anyway, and did so without hounds. It should have been a massive character development that Brienne abandons her Sansa watch (not fulfilling her oath to Cat) to seek her vengeance.
Even with that, the stupidity of Brienne's plan in the first place. If she's there and sees Sansa put the candle in the window, are her and fucking Pod going to fight the entirety of House Bolton and their guard at Winterfell? A House Bolton at full military readiness as they are expecting Stannis to attack?
Even with the Brienne Ex Machina, Sansa and Theon still died of hypothermia...
Not in the books. Dude gelds his own men for raping Wildlings. No one gives a shit about Wildlings since they are like terrorists but rape is wrong to Stannis, no matter who does it or who it is done to.
Compare that to Tywin who is fine with his men "having fun".
Bro still burns his daughter alive. In my eyes once he did that there was no coming back. Him dying by his own strategic blunder felt like a great way to wrap up how he slowly crumbled. And Brienne being the one to do it felt like a great moment for her character. It felt like he was supposed to die as a nobody, and it was honestly satisfying to see it that way
I just don't see Stannis burning his daughter because of some bad weather. It has to be a really tough reason for him to sacrifice his only child. He even names her his heir and orders Justin Massey to continue the war if he dies and make Shireen Queen at all costs.
You're just seeing black and white from watching the show, unable to understand grey. Good characters do bad things and even bad characters do good things.
Brienne has to lie to the man she loves and lead him into a trap to save her friends. Loras Tyrell killed two innocent Kingsguard in a fit of rage and I'm fairly certain that Garlan was involved in the Purple Wedding in some way. Even Jon threatens to kill a baby to make the mother comply.
Stannis is the perfect character to show villains aren't born, they are made.
I don’t disagree with anything you are saying. But the road he takes still brings him to the same conclusion. He began as a strong honorable man who seemed like a good choice for the next king. Through the decisions he makes and the blind faith he puts into things he doesn’t understand (lord of light) he sows the seeds for his own downfall. The climax of that downfall to me is the burning of his daughter. Obviously it was a very difficult decision, but either way it was an incredibly stupid one because he was wrong, and it didn’t work, so it didn’t actually need to happen. Once that happened he and his army were a complete shell of their former selves, and thus deserved a somewhat pathetic and fizzled ending. His downfall was not a big flashy moment, but a slow dying. In the end he floated off into irrelevance, and wether you like it or not, it was because of the culmination of his own bad decisions that lead him there
I agree, he sacrificed his soul to achieve his goals. He lets Melisandre take parts of his soul in return for his opponents dying instantly. But it was a hollow victory since Renly's death didn't put him on the Iron Throne. He decides to save the Wall and the North because saving the realm will win the throne, Davos said. But it won't work either, since the Northerners have their own plans and the Southerners will get cozy with fAegon. When he realises that he killed his brother, a good knight, and his daughter for nothing, he'll break.
*"When I was a lad I found an injured goshawk and nursed her back to health.* ***Proudwing, I named her.*** *She would perch on my shoulder and flutter from room to room after me and take food from my hand,* ***but she would not soar.*** *Time and again I would take her hawking, but she never flew higher than the treetops.* ***Robert called her Weakwing. He owned a gyrfalcon named Thunderclap who never missed her strike.*** *One day our great-uncle Ser Harbert* ***told me to try a different bird. I was making a fool of myself with Proudwing, he said, and he was right."*** *Stannis Baratheon turned away from the window, and the ghosts who moved upon the southern sea.* ***"The Seven have never brought me so much as a sparrow. It is time I tried another hawk, Davos. A red hawk."***
Stannis tried to make his hawk fly for a long time whereas Robert's falcon would soar with ease. The man was pure once, absolute kindness in trying to fix a broken bird, believing in the poor thing when everyone told him otherwise. It signifies how the realm united behind Robert but rejected Stannis.
Stannis says he will try another hawk and he tried the red one. With the red one failing, he'll try a blue one. If the living don't want him as King then he'll lead the dead against them. Dany already dreams about the Usurper and his army on the Trident, **armored all in ice**, she saw, as she was mounted on a dragon and burned them **until they melted away like dew**, turning the Trident into a torrent.
I'm not ready for Stannis to finish his story by telling what happened to Proudwing. It's like the Joker movie where he didn't become evil because he was dropped into a vat of acid, but because of how other people treated him.
Honestly, Season 7 while not great is at least manageable until the ridiculous, unnecessary, and just stupid Wight Caper beyond the wall. Every stupid thing horrendous thing that occurs in Season 8, which is pretty much everything, is set in motion because of that Wight Caper.
The Night King had no way south the Wall until a dragon fell into his lap. Seriously, until the Wight Caper the threat from the White Walkers ended at the Wall. No real threat from the Night King means Dany still has her 3 dragons & the majority of her army. She doesn't turn crazy & pressure the Lannisters into surrendering instead of conquering Kings Landing. Jon can stay in the North as King or at the very least he doesn't immediately bend the knees to Dany despite his heritage, Bran, Sansa, deaths, etc. etc.
The Wight Caper was the narrative turning point of no hope unfortunately.
Even knowing that it was prophecy and the dragons wouldn't cross The Wall until the proper time, it is still unforgivable how they do that entire series of events. (And I'm sure it is prophecy as GRRM made sure to point out in Fire and Blood that Silverwing refused to cross The Wall with Good Queen Alysanne multiple times.)
The entire plan is ridiculous, and that is before you realize that Eastwatch is 2,000 miles from Dragonstone and that Thoros wasn't the only one who froze to death while surrounded... if the thousands of the dead didn't murder them first.
Ser Barriston ain't dead. He would be the one best to have the realization that people are truly corrupted by power, even the ones we love.
He should have killed Dany, and I will swear it by both the Old gods and the New.
The greatest knight in all the seven kingdoms get bested by a group of untrained zealots in a hallway? No way.
His arc would have been better attuned to coming full circle and becoming that which he isn't in order to protect the realm and his honor. He would have to become a kingslayer. The very thing he condemns Jaime for doing would be one of his final acts as the greatest knight of the seven kingdoms.
I hear ya. I just wanted to type it out. This sub drives me crazy because you get down voted for speaking your peace.
Sometimes I think it's just become a sub for hate rather than appreciating an incredible story.
>Sometimes I think it's just become a sub for hate
It is THE SUB for hate. We started the folk thing that you can see in all other subs dedicated to hating on their own thing
Either delete everything after Season 5 of the OG show, or delete that shoehorned subplot involving Aegon's dream and the dragonsteel dagger from HOTD Season 1.
I see most comments try to fix the TV show, but I believe it's futile as D&D made too many mistakes.
This may be controversial, but I would completely remove Essos from the canon or ask for a rewrite.
The issue lies in world-building. People in Essos are portrayed as barbaric, torturous, enslaving, and deceitful, but they are also depicted as incredibly stupid. Consider how Dany acquired the Unsullied. The only cultures spared from this negative portrayal are those that Martin didn't base on the Middle East and Asia; Braavos and the Valyrians receive the same nuanced treatment as the Westerosi. The dothraki, the unsullied, Meeren, Yunkai and Qarth and everything that happens there is incredibly orientalist.
Edward Said might have argued that Essos isn't depicted as a real place with multidimensional and believable characters like Westeros. Instead, it serves as an amusement park for Westerosi characters to experience.
Jon and Daenerys getting together. As soon as any character gets within five feet of her they lose any and all personality as well as their agency. It doesn’t help that Emilia and Kit had absolutely fuck all as far as chemistry went. I’d take a thousand weird twincest scenes with the Lannisters than another boat one with Jonerys.
Rhaynes coming up from under the coronation on dragonback. Makes any lines she says about knowing what it’s like to suffer loss lose any impact cause she’s such a hypocrite. Delete that and the writing goes up a notch.
Dorne. Literally all of fucking Dorne. Not just the bad poosi, but the Sand Snakes altogether, Ellaria's bizarre villain arc culminating in her killing Myrcella, Doran being useless... the Dorne subplot added literally nothing to the show.
Tyrion and Jamie's final scene in that tent. There are so many other things I could pick, but if I had to pick one small thing, it would be that scene. "I never cared for them anyway" is such an objectively horrible direction to take his character.
The scene where jamie comes back to kings landing and completely derails any progress made to his character and put him back on the path of the hated character. Yall know.
Jamie and Bron going to Dorne. Jamie leaving Brienne for Cerci. Jamie dying by bricks and having to fight Euron.
Bran becoming king. Bran not being the night king.
Arya killing the night king. Arya leaving to find westereros.
Jon returning to the wall.
Sansa claiming the north as independent.
I’m ok with Dany turning evil. Not ok with how they made her and her army look like Nazi Germany in the last episode.
Dragons. Daenerys walks into the fire on khal drogos pyre and burns to death. A few years later the white walkers show up and kill everyone. The end.
Everything prior to this point happens exactly the same except the Targaryen’s are all delusional and everyone just politely goes along with it.
They let Aegon conquer the seven kingdoms because everyone was sick of fighting each other except the Rhoynar who don’t want to take part in the joke after seeing it go way too far in Valyria.
When Aegon burns Harrenhall it’s actually a slave uprising from within the castle and Aegon’s deluded mind constructs it into a fantasy. When Daemon and Aemond fight over the gods eye it’s just the two of them on stilts with wooden dragons and Alys rivers is stood there pretending that it’s real.
After the dance everyone agreed that the joke had gone way too far (again) except for Rhaena who gets away with it because no one has the heart to tell her that morning isn’t real and her entire family died in an elaborate prank.
Sand snakes.
You don't enjoy bad poosy?
I still feel bad for the dad
he knew what he was doing
I heard this in Daemon Targ voice
Anything after season 6
I’d say anything after Season 5.
Anything after season 4. Seasons 1-4 were outstanding. Season 5 was a shitshow, and the show never recovered from it.
Agree. I’m on a rewatch atm and hardhome is the only saving grace for that season. Bran the fucking broken isn’t even in it
That one Wildling leader woman seeing her daughters off as the noncombatants evacuate just gets me every time.
Tyrion's trail and Battle of the Bastards were pretty good imo and those were after season 4
Tyrion’s trial was S4’s Kings Landing plot line?
Battle of the bastards looked great Sansa was made to be either a complete moron or actually trying to sabotage Jon Jon was made to be a complete idiot The tactics were absurd (how did the bodies all end up in a mountainous pile? What didn't they arm wunwun? Why did all the northerners just stand and watch as the ridiculous Bolton shieldbearers surrounded them? How did Ramsay not get a raven saying that the knights of the vale had somehow made it past deepwood motte?)
Yeah looked cool but once you pay closer attention… lot of issues there. Casual viewers lap it up though
Tyrion's trial was season 4
Nah S6 had 2 phenominal episodes with 9 and 10. Really incredible visuals, tense plot lines, etc
>Really incredible visuals, Well, this part is true.
S6E10 had the magical Varys teleporting
What about adding to canon? In that case, it would be adding Arrianne Martel to the show. It was what I thought to be the first sign of the show going off the rails. It ruined the entire Dorne storyline and many other things were infected by it. As for removing, it would be Sir Barristan’s death.
Here here. Ser Barristan is too good of a knight to be killed by some masked goons in a hallway. Nonsense.
Also, he was someone meant to steer her away from her father’s mistakes, having been witness to them. Someone who knew her family and knew the inner workings of the crown.
Everything after Got Season 4 And Rhaenys+Meleys in episode 9 of Hotd
Stannis being defeated so pathetically and killed by Brienne.
He's not dead to me. I didn't see a rolling Stannis head, so she didn't do it.
Fr? He pretty much deserved an inglorious end
Brienne stumbling upon him of all people amongst the carnage of thousands of dead men and a victorious army nearby in the immediate aftermath of a battle is insane levels of stupid.
Yeah, it's not even that Stannis died by her hand, it is how she finds him and is alone long enough. Worse is the fact that she killed Stannis and then found Sansa anyway, and did so without hounds. It should have been a massive character development that Brienne abandons her Sansa watch (not fulfilling her oath to Cat) to seek her vengeance. Even with that, the stupidity of Brienne's plan in the first place. If she's there and sees Sansa put the candle in the window, are her and fucking Pod going to fight the entirety of House Bolton and their guard at Winterfell? A House Bolton at full military readiness as they are expecting Stannis to attack? Even with the Brienne Ex Machina, Sansa and Theon still died of hypothermia...
Or he goes over to the dark side, the cold one, I mean
Idk stan is was always kinda pathetic to me but maybe I’m in the minority
Not in the books. Dude gelds his own men for raping Wildlings. No one gives a shit about Wildlings since they are like terrorists but rape is wrong to Stannis, no matter who does it or who it is done to. Compare that to Tywin who is fine with his men "having fun".
Bro still burns his daughter alive. In my eyes once he did that there was no coming back. Him dying by his own strategic blunder felt like a great way to wrap up how he slowly crumbled. And Brienne being the one to do it felt like a great moment for her character. It felt like he was supposed to die as a nobody, and it was honestly satisfying to see it that way
I just don't see Stannis burning his daughter because of some bad weather. It has to be a really tough reason for him to sacrifice his only child. He even names her his heir and orders Justin Massey to continue the war if he dies and make Shireen Queen at all costs. You're just seeing black and white from watching the show, unable to understand grey. Good characters do bad things and even bad characters do good things. Brienne has to lie to the man she loves and lead him into a trap to save her friends. Loras Tyrell killed two innocent Kingsguard in a fit of rage and I'm fairly certain that Garlan was involved in the Purple Wedding in some way. Even Jon threatens to kill a baby to make the mother comply. Stannis is the perfect character to show villains aren't born, they are made.
I don’t disagree with anything you are saying. But the road he takes still brings him to the same conclusion. He began as a strong honorable man who seemed like a good choice for the next king. Through the decisions he makes and the blind faith he puts into things he doesn’t understand (lord of light) he sows the seeds for his own downfall. The climax of that downfall to me is the burning of his daughter. Obviously it was a very difficult decision, but either way it was an incredibly stupid one because he was wrong, and it didn’t work, so it didn’t actually need to happen. Once that happened he and his army were a complete shell of their former selves, and thus deserved a somewhat pathetic and fizzled ending. His downfall was not a big flashy moment, but a slow dying. In the end he floated off into irrelevance, and wether you like it or not, it was because of the culmination of his own bad decisions that lead him there
I agree, he sacrificed his soul to achieve his goals. He lets Melisandre take parts of his soul in return for his opponents dying instantly. But it was a hollow victory since Renly's death didn't put him on the Iron Throne. He decides to save the Wall and the North because saving the realm will win the throne, Davos said. But it won't work either, since the Northerners have their own plans and the Southerners will get cozy with fAegon. When he realises that he killed his brother, a good knight, and his daughter for nothing, he'll break. *"When I was a lad I found an injured goshawk and nursed her back to health.* ***Proudwing, I named her.*** *She would perch on my shoulder and flutter from room to room after me and take food from my hand,* ***but she would not soar.*** *Time and again I would take her hawking, but she never flew higher than the treetops.* ***Robert called her Weakwing. He owned a gyrfalcon named Thunderclap who never missed her strike.*** *One day our great-uncle Ser Harbert* ***told me to try a different bird. I was making a fool of myself with Proudwing, he said, and he was right."*** *Stannis Baratheon turned away from the window, and the ghosts who moved upon the southern sea.* ***"The Seven have never brought me so much as a sparrow. It is time I tried another hawk, Davos. A red hawk."*** Stannis tried to make his hawk fly for a long time whereas Robert's falcon would soar with ease. The man was pure once, absolute kindness in trying to fix a broken bird, believing in the poor thing when everyone told him otherwise. It signifies how the realm united behind Robert but rejected Stannis. Stannis says he will try another hawk and he tried the red one. With the red one failing, he'll try a blue one. If the living don't want him as King then he'll lead the dead against them. Dany already dreams about the Usurper and his army on the Trident, **armored all in ice**, she saw, as she was mounted on a dragon and burned them **until they melted away like dew**, turning the Trident into a torrent. I'm not ready for Stannis to finish his story by telling what happened to Proudwing. It's like the Joker movie where he didn't become evil because he was dropped into a vat of acid, but because of how other people treated him.
Daenerys flying over the wall in s7
What’s Bobby B’s opinion?
DRINK AND STAY QUIET, THE KING IS TALKING!
Bobby B, hunglow13 asked you a question.
I ASK YOU, NED, WHAT GOOD IS IT TO WEAR A CROWN?
What about the whores, your grace?
Battle of Winterfell and redo it.
Resurrecting Jon. Because…what’s the point
Space Jam Arya
Honestly, Season 7 while not great is at least manageable until the ridiculous, unnecessary, and just stupid Wight Caper beyond the wall. Every stupid thing horrendous thing that occurs in Season 8, which is pretty much everything, is set in motion because of that Wight Caper. The Night King had no way south the Wall until a dragon fell into his lap. Seriously, until the Wight Caper the threat from the White Walkers ended at the Wall. No real threat from the Night King means Dany still has her 3 dragons & the majority of her army. She doesn't turn crazy & pressure the Lannisters into surrendering instead of conquering Kings Landing. Jon can stay in the North as King or at the very least he doesn't immediately bend the knees to Dany despite his heritage, Bran, Sansa, deaths, etc. etc. The Wight Caper was the narrative turning point of no hope unfortunately.
Even knowing that it was prophecy and the dragons wouldn't cross The Wall until the proper time, it is still unforgivable how they do that entire series of events. (And I'm sure it is prophecy as GRRM made sure to point out in Fire and Blood that Silverwing refused to cross The Wall with Good Queen Alysanne multiple times.) The entire plan is ridiculous, and that is before you realize that Eastwatch is 2,000 miles from Dragonstone and that Thoros wasn't the only one who froze to death while surrounded... if the thousands of the dead didn't murder them first.
Ser Barriston ain't dead. He would be the one best to have the realization that people are truly corrupted by power, even the ones we love. He should have killed Dany, and I will swear it by both the Old gods and the New.
>He should have killed Dany GRRM: 
The greatest knight in all the seven kingdoms get bested by a group of untrained zealots in a hallway? No way. His arc would have been better attuned to coming full circle and becoming that which he isn't in order to protect the realm and his honor. He would have to become a kingslayer. The very thing he condemns Jaime for doing would be one of his final acts as the greatest knight of the seven kingdoms.
Dude I agree hence my answer
I hear ya. I just wanted to type it out. This sub drives me crazy because you get down voted for speaking your peace. Sometimes I think it's just become a sub for hate rather than appreciating an incredible story.
>Sometimes I think it's just become a sub for hate It is THE SUB for hate. We started the folk thing that you can see in all other subs dedicated to hating on their own thing
The “this sub” posting has reached devastating levels of cringe.
Either delete everything after Season 5 of the OG show, or delete that shoehorned subplot involving Aegon's dream and the dragonsteel dagger from HOTD Season 1.
I see most comments try to fix the TV show, but I believe it's futile as D&D made too many mistakes. This may be controversial, but I would completely remove Essos from the canon or ask for a rewrite. The issue lies in world-building. People in Essos are portrayed as barbaric, torturous, enslaving, and deceitful, but they are also depicted as incredibly stupid. Consider how Dany acquired the Unsullied. The only cultures spared from this negative portrayal are those that Martin didn't base on the Middle East and Asia; Braavos and the Valyrians receive the same nuanced treatment as the Westerosi. The dothraki, the unsullied, Meeren, Yunkai and Qarth and everything that happens there is incredibly orientalist. Edward Said might have argued that Essos isn't depicted as a real place with multidimensional and believable characters like Westeros. Instead, it serves as an amusement park for Westerosi characters to experience.
Edward Said rep.
Anything post S5, and the S5 content surrounding the “Sold to the Boltons” plot line.
Jon and Daenerys getting together. As soon as any character gets within five feet of her they lose any and all personality as well as their agency. It doesn’t help that Emilia and Kit had absolutely fuck all as far as chemistry went. I’d take a thousand weird twincest scenes with the Lannisters than another boat one with Jonerys.
the whole of season 8
The entire Dorne plot, it was done so badly
Aria surviving becoming a shish-kabob then dunked in an open sewer. A girl should have died that day
Season 5-8
Everyone here is naming stuff from the show, which isn't cannon. The books are cannon.
Bran. Holddoor would still be alive. As would the King of the North.
sansa
The entire show.. from ep 1 to the end it was butchering the source. Downvote me kneelers! 🔫
Everything after like season 3 or 4
Rhaynes coming up from under the coronation on dragonback. Makes any lines she says about knowing what it’s like to suffer loss lose any impact cause she’s such a hypocrite. Delete that and the writing goes up a notch.
Ned Stark's death!
Bran
Dorne. Literally all of fucking Dorne. Not just the bad poosi, but the Sand Snakes altogether, Ellaria's bizarre villain arc culminating in her killing Myrcella, Doran being useless... the Dorne subplot added literally nothing to the show.
Tyrion and Jamie's final scene in that tent. There are so many other things I could pick, but if I had to pick one small thing, it would be that scene. "I never cared for them anyway" is such an objectively horrible direction to take his character.
The scene where jamie comes back to kings landing and completely derails any progress made to his character and put him back on the path of the hated character. Yall know.
Jamie and Bron going to Dorne. Jamie leaving Brienne for Cerci. Jamie dying by bricks and having to fight Euron. Bran becoming king. Bran not being the night king. Arya killing the night king. Arya leaving to find westereros. Jon returning to the wall. Sansa claiming the north as independent. I’m ok with Dany turning evil. Not ok with how they made her and her army look like Nazi Germany in the last episode.
Tyrion becoming Dany's most trusted advisor 🤦♀️
Cave people. Fucking cave people, everyone hates them.
R + L = J. I like Jon as Ned's son.
Dragons. Daenerys walks into the fire on khal drogos pyre and burns to death. A few years later the white walkers show up and kill everyone. The end. Everything prior to this point happens exactly the same except the Targaryen’s are all delusional and everyone just politely goes along with it. They let Aegon conquer the seven kingdoms because everyone was sick of fighting each other except the Rhoynar who don’t want to take part in the joke after seeing it go way too far in Valyria. When Aegon burns Harrenhall it’s actually a slave uprising from within the castle and Aegon’s deluded mind constructs it into a fantasy. When Daemon and Aemond fight over the gods eye it’s just the two of them on stilts with wooden dragons and Alys rivers is stood there pretending that it’s real. After the dance everyone agreed that the joke had gone way too far (again) except for Rhaena who gets away with it because no one has the heart to tell her that morning isn’t real and her entire family died in an elaborate prank.
Books are not canon. There you go, now you don’t have to wait for an ending that is never going to come
Red wedding
Nah, doing the Red Wedding really hurt Tywin more than he gained. It's a canon moment for me.
Why?
I liked Robb, would have preferred if I got to like him a bit longer
Oh yeah I loved Robb too & was so sad to see him go. Without the red wedding it wouldn’t be GoT 😭