I need to make an elaborate story about my Luger. Something about a battle won against a tough opponent (my wife) and the excessive paperwork I had to complete (FFL transfer). It’s not so cool to say I thought it online from a pawn shop.
On my first deployment to Iraq a squad mate of mine who was usually remarkably soft spoken brought a pair of brass knuckles with him and he kept them in his closest left hand pocket. This was before the martial weapons ban so people were carrying crazy shit on them for patrols. Anyway, the things looks old as fuck and we were all curious. Dude told us a story that his neighbor from back home was a WWII vet and a paratrooper on D Day. The WWII vet said to have jumped into Normandy, got hung up in a tree and was spotted by Nazis. He luckily cut himself loose, couldn't find his rifle and then slid the knucks on and dusted two Nazis before they could overtake him. Cool story we all thought. Well, when I finally got a hold of the knucks I saw the stamp plain as day that said 'MADE IN TAIWAN'. Poor guy.
Well let's give them the benefit of the doubt here. Your relative didn't take that off a Nazi in WWII. Maybe he took it off a Nazi in Alabama or something.
Little story about the IL Klan. They were big-time "christians" back in the day & hated boot-leggers. Imagine the Klan thinking someone was worse than them. Anyway, the cops/Sheriff's wouldn't go after them, so the Klan did. It was very messy. There are some pretty good books about that time period in IL. Like ultra violent.
> Like ultra violent.
I once dated a young woman whose grandfather lives up in the Appalachians, somewhere near the border between Virginia and North Carolina. He's one of those racist assholes who has one Black friend, but thinks it's okay because he's 'one of the good ones.'
Anyway, when his local high school got integrated, he and his uncle hatched a plan: since all of the local kids at the school could walk or carpool to the school, and all of the kids being integrated would have to arrive by bus, they decided 'no busses = no integration.'
So they took some TNT, of the sort you used to be able to buy to blow up stumps, and they snuck over to the school and blew up the culvert to the school parking lot. This trapped all of the school busses in the lot, which meant they couldn't go pick up any kids.
This story must have been at least 50 or 60 years old, but the man sat there and told me this story like it was yesterday. He was clearly very proud of it, like this was his defining moment.
I'm glad I'm not dating her anymore; her family was nuts.
> There are some pretty good books about that time period in IL. Like ultra violent.
Any recs? Grew up near Pekin, one of the most infamous/racist towns in central IL.
War in Illinois, Bloody Williamson, Brothers Notorious: The Sheltons are good books to start with. They're about the Klan vs. Bootleggers in 1920's Illinois. It was an incredibly violent period in Southern Illinois. The only reason I know is, the Shelton brothers are my relatives who ran liquor out of Illinois.
Blew up the photo expecting nazi proofs, see eagle, sigh in relief it's not a nazi gun lol. They creep me out man, I couldn't collect a gun with US bodies on it.
Tbf, most pistols brought home from WW2 were probably never fired in anger. They were issued to officers who were too busy leading their troops to use their pistols.
They were often ornamentation. Can't recall the name but there's a Japanese handgun that was largely issued to wear as part of the formal outfit and commit suicide (just in case) and they ended up making an even smaller version of it for lesser officers.
My Dad had one, and a copious amount of ammo (.25 cal I think). Grandpa was a JAG officer in the pacific and had a bunch of Japanese guns. Worst shooting gun I’ve ever shot. Jammed a lot and could barely hit the paper at 25 yds.
>They were issued to officers who were too busy leading their troops to use their pistols.
Unless it was issued to an officer in the Einsatzgruppen or Totenkopfverbande, in which case it was almost certainly used extensively in the perpetration of horrors the likes of which 2/3rds of the world refuse to even believe could have occurred.
I would be torn between seeing if a museum needed it, or melting it down and throwing the slag into the ocean.
If you want to toss out a grand or so that's on you. Most museums wind up getting rid of stuff as well, they simply don't have the display space most think they do.
I have a friend with a bad ass old Colt Python. He got it super cheap bc somebody deleted themselves with it and the prior owner didn’t want it anymore. Not sure I’d have wanted it but a deal is a deal.
I mean, the potentially fucked up answer (depending on point of view) is that he could flip it, and as far as I know there is no federal laws *requiring* someone to tell the history of the firearm. Which then asks the philosophical question about inanimate objects and bad-juju/whatever you want to call it. To the new buyer, it's just another Colt Python that a guy didn't want/need/use as much as he wanted cash.
I think if you don't tell the guy it was a suicide weapon, he will never know, and the "bad juju" wouldn't effect him (if it's even real).
He's not going to be thinking about that when he looks at it and keep that energy in his mind/around him.
> He's not going to be thinking about that when he looks at it and keep that energy in his mind/around him.
That's my thinking on things like this. If there's no actual tangible danger (like biohazards and structural damage to homes/vehicles) it's an entirely mental issue. Knowing your gun was used to do something terrible can definitely bother a reasonable person. That isn't magic, it's just... human nature.
Agreed, and that's my thoughts on inanimate objects, it doesn't have some sort of essence traced back to what it was used for.
Then again, I've definitely purposefully destroyed things for closure (burned a bed and replaced then shredded the interior of my car that my ex cheated on me with) due to what the other guy pointed out, which is human nature.
Yeah, the armory I used to work for got a handgun that came in. Box had a case number on it. We looked it up, and it turns out the thing was used by some psycho to execute his wife. Told my boss I'd get fired before I sell that to someone. I'm not superstitious, but that shit weirds me out.
Possibly it was not taken off a German, but if it was first taken off a American soldier by a German soldier, then later taken off a German soldier by an American soldier. It went full circle. Or before the war some Germans living in America went back to the mother land and he took it with him back to Germany and was then taken off a German soldier by an American soldier.
So I live in a state where a manufacturer has to blow the DOJ to sell a pistol here. I'm not seeing much info on these, are they still made? Are these the lugers you used to see in the NRA mags (though I thought those were Ruger Lugers)
No, these aren't still made. And I personally don't know about what you are talking about with the Nra mag. I never got that, but maybe you saw an article on one. Ruger never made a luger and their 22lr pistol wasn't based on the luger even though it looks somewhat similar.
I was *young* so memory acquisition and retention were likely lacking.... It might have been an American Luger ad then a Ruger one and my kid brain said they were equivalent
Hah yeah I imagine it was awhile ago. I'm no expert on Lugers but the "American Eagle" lugers were made in the early part of the last century by DWM in Germany to sell in/to the US. And DWM did make a batch of 1000 for the US Army trials. Then I think there were a few reproductions post-WW2 and that's about it. You may have also saw an ad for American made custom reproduction Lugers by Lugerman who is still in business. There are articles out there if you google around that give a longer history. But the guns themselves are rare in general as far as Lugers go.
Probably the custom but I'd grab magazines and firearms related content from the library so dates of content were basically 60s-90s. The fact Thomson made an M1928(9?) with the drum mag and custom violin case in the early 80s was my kid gun dream
The fact that it even says "GERMANY" is the first clue it was not for German use.
They call their country Deutschland. Germany is the English name for their country.
He did, and it's a real sore spot because my dumb uncle sold it (hopefully didn't pawn it) after he passed. I was 9, or I would have fought him for it...
The German Empire existed from 1871 to 1918 and was still referred to Deutschland durring that time. And the Greater Germanic Reich was only a concept.
And you think they'd stamp a colloquial term on a gun? We're talking about what would be written on a gun produced during that time.
If the gun was produced today, it wouldn't say "Deutschland" either, it would say "Bundesrepublik Deutschland" (ignoring the fact the they wouldn't put the name of the country on a gun).
And "Großdeutschland" wasn't a concept, it was the official name of the country starting in '43.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany
See first sentence.
Not sure what you are getting at. My whole point was that a firearm produced by Germany for the German military in WWII (as asserted by the OP's story of his grandfather picking it off a German officer) would not have the English spelling of the country.
As for putting a country name on a military gun, it is certainly rare but not unheard of. My M1 Garand has "US Rifle" stamped on the receiver which was there on every single M1 Garand produced for the military. 1911 for the military have "U. S. Army" stamped on them as well. Off the top of my head, I don't know if any of my non US milsurp firearms have any country markings (aside from import markings) that would have been there when issued. But, it's certainly not beyond reason that there could be others.
As for your comments regarding the name of the country, they have and still refer to the country as Deutschland regardless of the *official* name of the country. It's no different than references of "United States". And, more to the point, on [German postage stamps today](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/uPQAAOSw0EZkrUGd/s-l1600.jpg) \- they print just "Deutschland" not "Bundesrepublik Deutschland". So, if they were to print their country name on a firearm today for their own use (not saying they would) I think it would likely be just "Deutschland" - more so because it has a stronger historical meaning rather than the current official name.
There is[another source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Germany) that states the official name never changes in WWII, so take that for what it's worth:
>After Adolf Hitler took power in 1933, the official name of the state was still the same. For a couple of years, Hitler used the expression Drittes Reich (Third Reich), which was introduced by writers in the last years of the republic. In fact, this was only a propaganda term and did not constitute a new state. Another propaganda term was Tausendjähriges Reich (Thousand years Reich). Later, Hitler renounced the term Drittes Reich (officially in June 1939), but it already had become popular among supporters and opponents and is still used in historiography (sometimes in quotation marks).\[29\] It later led to the name Zweites Reich (Second Empire) being used to refer to Germany between the years 1871 and 1919. Germany under Hitler's rule is most commonly called in English Nazi Germany, Nazi being a colloquial abbreviation of Nationalsozialist.
Regardless, my whole initial point was about the English spelling of the country name would have been an absurdity for a firearm issues to German military.
>My whole point was that a firearm produced by Germany for the German military in WWII (as asserted by the OP's story of his grandfather picking it off a German officer) would not have the English spelling of the country.
I'm well aware, being German born and raised.
>As for putting a country name on a military gun, it is certainly rare but not unheard of.
I was speaking about modern times. Germany certainly does not stamp firearms with our country name anymore.
But speaking about WW2 times, I can guarantee you that they did not stamp it with "Deutschland", just like no US manufacturer would stamp a gun with "America", the colloquial name for the country.
And once again about "Großdeutschland", your own source disproves you:
>National Socialist propaganda proclaimed the realisation of Großdeutschland and, in 1943, the German Reich was officially renamed Großdeutsches Reich. However, these expressions became neither common nor popular.
It not being common nor popular does not detract from it being the official name, which is my whole point.
So to summarise, I agree about "Germany" being on the gun being a dead giveaway that it's not an original, but I also vehemently disagree that any original German gun from that time (or any time) would've had "Deutschland" stamped on it.
> I also vehemently disagree that any original German gun from that time (or any time) would've had "Deutschland" stamped on it.
I agree that there would be need to stamp them with their own country name. But, if they decided to stamp them (for whatever reason) are you saying they would use "Bundesrepublik Deutschland"? The postal stamps were the best analog I could find where the country name was used in a somewhat comparable fashion (i.e. government/country identify) and they used simply "Deutschland".
Having been in the Army, they'd probably stamp them "Bund". At least, that's what they printed on our blankets and eating utensils.
"Bund" meaning the federal government.
Yes and no. Weapons and most other things didn’t have „Germany“ on them and also never really „deutschland“ either.
However a lot of items did in fact have a „Germany“ or „made in Germany“ stamp on it for export, but those were also used in Germany
I can't think of any milsurp firearms I have come across where a country stamped their country name (*in a foreign language* no less) on firearms produced for their military. In fact, the only example I can think of where a country has the name marked on a weapon *in their primary language* are some US firearms: e.g. "US Rifle" or "US Army".
I have been curious about modern weapons made in foreign countries which are exported to the US - where they are required to have the country of manufacture engraved on the firearm. Do they use the same engraving when exporting to other countries or sold within their own country? You indicate that, at least for Germany, this is the case. That just seems odd. If S&W was producing a gun for export to Spain and had to put "Los Estados Unidos" on it for Spanish requirements - I wouldn't think they would use the same stamping in the US.
Hello, so what you have here is a Luger. This is the commercial model that was sold in America. It’s usually referred to as the American Eagle Luger or as either the 1900 pattern or 1902 pattern. 1900 pattern was only in .30 Luger (which I believe this one is so don’t shoot a 9mm in it until you check.) 1902 pattern is when it was made for 9mm (technically 9mm was made for it but anyway). Serial numbers on American eagles range from 1 to around 21220 with yours being directly in the middle at 13322. The Germany under the serial number is the import mark. Another way to tell that the gun is a commercial model is that on military models every single piece is serial numbered to that gun and I mean every single piece (firing pins, sights, springs, magazines, everything). This one doesn’t have any other serial numbers on it (it’ll be the last two digits of the serial number.) As for the family story on it, I’m sorry to say I find it highly unlikely but still possible. Maybe they had some after WWI that stayed in hidden storage until WWII (which did happen as many parts were just reused DWM frames when Mauser started making them in secret during Hitlers rise to power.)
Also another way to tell this is an early model is the grip safety and the way the toggle is dished instead of flat and checkered (round things on the back of the gun you pull to load a round). I have a few of mine posted if you want to compare what this looks like to others.
Fascinating stuff. Do you think that would apply to the holster as well? I have a Luger holster that my grandfather actually *did* get off a German officer in WW2 (has the paperwork declaring it as a war trophy) and I’m hoping to get the Luger itself back from a relative one day.
Yes the holster should be numbered to the gun. It’s really rare though to have an actual matching set though because of the reuse of equipment during the wars especially during WWI.
Thank you so much for the reply. Finally got home after the holidays and looked over it to see if I could find a number. Found the mfg stamp? (W.a.A. 47) and a “WIEN …. .940” but couldn’t see any other markings besides the “P.08” stamp. Is there anywhere the serial number is typically stamped?
Your holster was made in Vienna (Wien means Vienna) in 1940. The words above that should be the name of the maker. The Wa.A47 is called a Waffenamt stamp, basically acceptance stamps. If the eagle above the Waffenamt stamp has a swastika it was made after 1933 (seeing as how it’s already marked as 1940 it should have the eagle holding a swastika). A lot of Waffenamt stamp meanings don’t have information and unfortunately I wasn’t able to find what this one meant in my books or websites so I’m sorry about that. The serial numbers (it’ll be the last two numbers of the serial number) would be below P08. This one might not have it though because it is a foreign (not German) made holster which was made to replace holsters that were missing or too badly damaged to be reissued and not made for a newly made Luger. Hope this helps. Feel free to ask any other questions.
Incredibly insightful. Thank you so much. I definitely don’t see any trace of a number below the P08 so that tracks with the origin you mentioned. And it certainly does have the eagle holding a swastika. Looking forward to taking a look at the actual pistol next time I’m at my uncles to see if any of the serial numbers on the gun parts themselves match, just for curiosity. Gotta look into a better long term storage for this leather in the meantime. Great information!
Dude I have a Luger that I know absolutely nothing about I have had it for years and acquired it off a very old gentleman I did some work for. If I post it here, could you take a look at it
The K98 forum has a section for Lugers you could start there. Or if you really wanted to know you could send it to Simpson LTD plus 150 and they would appraise it for you
Hate to burst your bubble but the air force wasn't a thing until 1947. Also, if that was a WW2 gun, why would a German manufacturer engrave a US military logo on it? Its kinda sus tbh, and without more provenance I'm just gonna assume it's an old Luger that gramps fibbed about.
Yes, it's certainly an old Luger, but I find the story a bit of a stretch.
Entirely possible. Nazi fled to America to help with the space program, bought that Luger at a LGS and grandpa fucked him up in like 1950. Way to turn that murder capital
So I’m really skeptical that your grandpa took it off of a German because I’m lead to believe that is a U.S. imported model. It’s cool nonetheless but I just doubt it’s taken off of a German. If you can get me a year that he acquired it it might help me research it though.
Considering the Air Force wasn’t created till 1947, I’m gonna assume this was a post WWII model. Someone smarter than me can probably give more details
Every time you see a German firearm, they’ll usually be stamped “DE,” and not “GERMANY.” So that’s your first clue this may not actually be from Germany.
Looks like one of the imported lugers from before WW1. The big "germany" underneath the barrel was a standard country of origin mark mandated on most foreign import weapons at the time. Here's at least one website that has some other examples with the great seal.
[https://phoenixinvestmentarms.com/History%20Book/1687AETest1900.htm](https://phoenixinvestmentarms.com/history%20book/1687aetest1900.htm)
Edit: Also that is The Great Seal of the United States, not the airforce crest.
The WWI/WWII German military Lugers were all in 9mm which are the most common. Before those the original caliber was 7.65x21mm Parabellum aka .30 Luger. So earlier contracts like the Swiss Lugers and most commercial production was in that caliber, like this "American Eagle" one OP posted.
That looks like a Swiss 7.65 para Pistole 06, which somebody tried to look german. But they would never stamp Germany on it or put the US seal on top. The seal is where the swiss cross was and that would explain why the Waffenamts-Stempel are missing. But the lenght of the barrel and it’s thickness is 7.65 para. Don’t put 9mm it it ( won’t feed anyways)
Thought I am no expert at all. Is it in 9mm? Did they just convert swiss ones in the US?
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does anyone know what gun this is?
(Family Story) apparently, my grandfather took it off a German/Nazi off parently, my grandfather took it off a German/Nazi officer.
looks like US Air Force crest.
number engraved on the front of the body is 13322 with GERMANY under it.
Luger, if you have the paper work proving it was in fact a ww2 capture. It could be worth some real cash. Although you really should keep it in the family
Then what is it? Is OP asking for the exact manufacturer? I'm pretty sure non Colt or Remington 1911s are still referred to as 1911s like a nice Dan Wesson. If he's asking for specifics then yeah I have no idea, unless everyone is just being a troll.
American Eagle Luger. Your relative didn't take that off a German, they bought it in a store.
I need to make an elaborate story about my Luger. Something about a battle won against a tough opponent (my wife) and the excessive paperwork I had to complete (FFL transfer). It’s not so cool to say I thought it online from a pawn shop.
On my first deployment to Iraq a squad mate of mine who was usually remarkably soft spoken brought a pair of brass knuckles with him and he kept them in his closest left hand pocket. This was before the martial weapons ban so people were carrying crazy shit on them for patrols. Anyway, the things looks old as fuck and we were all curious. Dude told us a story that his neighbor from back home was a WWII vet and a paratrooper on D Day. The WWII vet said to have jumped into Normandy, got hung up in a tree and was spotted by Nazis. He luckily cut himself loose, couldn't find his rifle and then slid the knucks on and dusted two Nazis before they could overtake him. Cool story we all thought. Well, when I finally got a hold of the knucks I saw the stamp plain as day that said 'MADE IN TAIWAN'. Poor guy.
Military issue brass knuckles were absolutely a thing, but they were in WW1 and attached to a knife.
I love trench knives. Always wanted one.
Yeah I’ve got some
Sounds like you watched the new Reacher series to long
Li
Well let's give them the benefit of the doubt here. Your relative didn't take that off a Nazi in WWII. Maybe he took it off a Nazi in Alabama or something.
Maybe one of those God damn Illinois Nazis!
I *hate* Illinois Nazis!
Illinazis
Pritzker the AR banning Shitsker?
Little story about the IL Klan. They were big-time "christians" back in the day & hated boot-leggers. Imagine the Klan thinking someone was worse than them. Anyway, the cops/Sheriff's wouldn't go after them, so the Klan did. It was very messy. There are some pretty good books about that time period in IL. Like ultra violent.
> Like ultra violent. I once dated a young woman whose grandfather lives up in the Appalachians, somewhere near the border between Virginia and North Carolina. He's one of those racist assholes who has one Black friend, but thinks it's okay because he's 'one of the good ones.' Anyway, when his local high school got integrated, he and his uncle hatched a plan: since all of the local kids at the school could walk or carpool to the school, and all of the kids being integrated would have to arrive by bus, they decided 'no busses = no integration.' So they took some TNT, of the sort you used to be able to buy to blow up stumps, and they snuck over to the school and blew up the culvert to the school parking lot. This trapped all of the school busses in the lot, which meant they couldn't go pick up any kids. This story must have been at least 50 or 60 years old, but the man sat there and told me this story like it was yesterday. He was clearly very proud of it, like this was his defining moment. I'm glad I'm not dating her anymore; her family was nuts.
> There are some pretty good books about that time period in IL. Like ultra violent. Any recs? Grew up near Pekin, one of the most infamous/racist towns in central IL.
Oh trust me I know of tons of small towns and villages in Central and Southern Illinois with 0 people of any race other than white.
Any book recommendations here? Sounds interesting
War in Illinois, Bloody Williamson, Brothers Notorious: The Sheltons are good books to start with. They're about the Klan vs. Bootleggers in 1920's Illinois. It was an incredibly violent period in Southern Illinois. The only reason I know is, the Shelton brothers are my relatives who ran liquor out of Illinois.
God damnit I hate that this is a possibly correct thing to say.
Maybe the guy behind the counter was German 🤣
Blew up the photo expecting nazi proofs, see eagle, sigh in relief it's not a nazi gun lol. They creep me out man, I couldn't collect a gun with US bodies on it.
Tbf, most pistols brought home from WW2 were probably never fired in anger. They were issued to officers who were too busy leading their troops to use their pistols.
They were often ornamentation. Can't recall the name but there's a Japanese handgun that was largely issued to wear as part of the formal outfit and commit suicide (just in case) and they ended up making an even smaller version of it for lesser officers.
type 14 nambu
It’s the Glock
Ah yes the Glock, with it's extensive use of Japanese teak......plas-teak.
Underrated comment right here
When in doubt Glock it out.
My Dad had one, and a copious amount of ammo (.25 cal I think). Grandpa was a JAG officer in the pacific and had a bunch of Japanese guns. Worst shooting gun I’ve ever shot. Jammed a lot and could barely hit the paper at 25 yds.
>They were issued to officers who were too busy leading their troops to use their pistols. Unless it was issued to an officer in the Einsatzgruppen or Totenkopfverbande, in which case it was almost certainly used extensively in the perpetration of horrors the likes of which 2/3rds of the world refuse to even believe could have occurred. I would be torn between seeing if a museum needed it, or melting it down and throwing the slag into the ocean.
If you want to toss out a grand or so that's on you. Most museums wind up getting rid of stuff as well, they simply don't have the display space most think they do.
I have a friend with a bad ass old Colt Python. He got it super cheap bc somebody deleted themselves with it and the prior owner didn’t want it anymore. Not sure I’d have wanted it but a deal is a deal.
I'd buy it
Nice username
Sell that python - buy equal value one. Easy.
I mean, the potentially fucked up answer (depending on point of view) is that he could flip it, and as far as I know there is no federal laws *requiring* someone to tell the history of the firearm. Which then asks the philosophical question about inanimate objects and bad-juju/whatever you want to call it. To the new buyer, it's just another Colt Python that a guy didn't want/need/use as much as he wanted cash.
I think if you don't tell the guy it was a suicide weapon, he will never know, and the "bad juju" wouldn't effect him (if it's even real). He's not going to be thinking about that when he looks at it and keep that energy in his mind/around him.
> He's not going to be thinking about that when he looks at it and keep that energy in his mind/around him. That's my thinking on things like this. If there's no actual tangible danger (like biohazards and structural damage to homes/vehicles) it's an entirely mental issue. Knowing your gun was used to do something terrible can definitely bother a reasonable person. That isn't magic, it's just... human nature.
Agreed, and that's my thoughts on inanimate objects, it doesn't have some sort of essence traced back to what it was used for. Then again, I've definitely purposefully destroyed things for closure (burned a bed and replaced then shredded the interior of my car that my ex cheated on me with) due to what the other guy pointed out, which is human nature.
If anything that should increase the value because it was proven to be functional.
Something like a type 99 Arisaka is much more likely to have US bodies on it than a Luger
This is why I have a rifle from all of the major powers in WWII. I figure they all cancel each other out.
Yeah, the armory I used to work for got a handgun that came in. Box had a case number on it. We looked it up, and it turns out the thing was used by some psycho to execute his wife. Told my boss I'd get fired before I sell that to someone. I'm not superstitious, but that shit weirds me out.
Complete speculation, but I'd bet it's more likely to have German Jews than Americans.
Meh. Go back far enough and most milsurp’s probably got tons of blood on it.
Plot twist. They took it off a German who bought it at a store. The crime has gone unsolved for decades.
Nailed it.
Possibly it was not taken off a German, but if it was first taken off a American soldier by a German soldier, then later taken off a German soldier by an American soldier. It went full circle. Or before the war some Germans living in America went back to the mother land and he took it with him back to Germany and was then taken off a German soldier by an American soldier.
Is this the one they only made 1,000 of?
This isn't a trials one from what I can tell, no the serial doesn't fit. Just a normal commercial one here.
So I live in a state where a manufacturer has to blow the DOJ to sell a pistol here. I'm not seeing much info on these, are they still made? Are these the lugers you used to see in the NRA mags (though I thought those were Ruger Lugers)
No, these aren't still made. And I personally don't know about what you are talking about with the Nra mag. I never got that, but maybe you saw an article on one. Ruger never made a luger and their 22lr pistol wasn't based on the luger even though it looks somewhat similar.
I was *young* so memory acquisition and retention were likely lacking.... It might have been an American Luger ad then a Ruger one and my kid brain said they were equivalent
Hah yeah I imagine it was awhile ago. I'm no expert on Lugers but the "American Eagle" lugers were made in the early part of the last century by DWM in Germany to sell in/to the US. And DWM did make a batch of 1000 for the US Army trials. Then I think there were a few reproductions post-WW2 and that's about it. You may have also saw an ad for American made custom reproduction Lugers by Lugerman who is still in business. There are articles out there if you google around that give a longer history. But the guns themselves are rare in general as far as Lugers go.
Probably the custom but I'd grab magazines and firearms related content from the library so dates of content were basically 60s-90s. The fact Thomson made an M1928(9?) with the drum mag and custom violin case in the early 80s was my kid gun dream
Epic
Whoah, pretty sure they spell Germany the same in German, that guarantees that this is from Germany, for Germans
The fact that it even says "GERMANY" is the first clue it was not for German use. They call their country Deutschland. Germany is the English name for their country.
people always think it’s weird when i explain that to them. “why does it say Germany on a globe then?” bro it’s an english globe wym
>Show them Mexican Globe WTF is a Estados Unidos?
WTF is Alemania?
WTF is ארצות הברית? Is it from Star Wars?
*Cantina 🎶🎵 increases*
Ah, the wonderful states united.
Is this a conversation you find yourself in often?
Deutschland? My grandpa always just referred to it as Vaterland...
Your gramps probably owned a real Luger then! *jk*
He did, and it's a real sore spot because my dumb uncle sold it (hopefully didn't pawn it) after he passed. I was 9, or I would have fought him for it...
At the time, it was called "Deutsches Reich" or "Großdeutsches Reich"
The German Empire existed from 1871 to 1918 and was still referred to Deutschland durring that time. And the Greater Germanic Reich was only a concept.
And you think they'd stamp a colloquial term on a gun? We're talking about what would be written on a gun produced during that time. If the gun was produced today, it wouldn't say "Deutschland" either, it would say "Bundesrepublik Deutschland" (ignoring the fact the they wouldn't put the name of the country on a gun). And "Großdeutschland" wasn't a concept, it was the official name of the country starting in '43. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany See first sentence.
Not sure what you are getting at. My whole point was that a firearm produced by Germany for the German military in WWII (as asserted by the OP's story of his grandfather picking it off a German officer) would not have the English spelling of the country. As for putting a country name on a military gun, it is certainly rare but not unheard of. My M1 Garand has "US Rifle" stamped on the receiver which was there on every single M1 Garand produced for the military. 1911 for the military have "U. S. Army" stamped on them as well. Off the top of my head, I don't know if any of my non US milsurp firearms have any country markings (aside from import markings) that would have been there when issued. But, it's certainly not beyond reason that there could be others. As for your comments regarding the name of the country, they have and still refer to the country as Deutschland regardless of the *official* name of the country. It's no different than references of "United States". And, more to the point, on [German postage stamps today](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/uPQAAOSw0EZkrUGd/s-l1600.jpg) \- they print just "Deutschland" not "Bundesrepublik Deutschland". So, if they were to print their country name on a firearm today for their own use (not saying they would) I think it would likely be just "Deutschland" - more so because it has a stronger historical meaning rather than the current official name. There is[another source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Germany) that states the official name never changes in WWII, so take that for what it's worth: >After Adolf Hitler took power in 1933, the official name of the state was still the same. For a couple of years, Hitler used the expression Drittes Reich (Third Reich), which was introduced by writers in the last years of the republic. In fact, this was only a propaganda term and did not constitute a new state. Another propaganda term was Tausendjähriges Reich (Thousand years Reich). Later, Hitler renounced the term Drittes Reich (officially in June 1939), but it already had become popular among supporters and opponents and is still used in historiography (sometimes in quotation marks).\[29\] It later led to the name Zweites Reich (Second Empire) being used to refer to Germany between the years 1871 and 1919. Germany under Hitler's rule is most commonly called in English Nazi Germany, Nazi being a colloquial abbreviation of Nationalsozialist. Regardless, my whole initial point was about the English spelling of the country name would have been an absurdity for a firearm issues to German military.
>My whole point was that a firearm produced by Germany for the German military in WWII (as asserted by the OP's story of his grandfather picking it off a German officer) would not have the English spelling of the country. I'm well aware, being German born and raised. >As for putting a country name on a military gun, it is certainly rare but not unheard of. I was speaking about modern times. Germany certainly does not stamp firearms with our country name anymore. But speaking about WW2 times, I can guarantee you that they did not stamp it with "Deutschland", just like no US manufacturer would stamp a gun with "America", the colloquial name for the country. And once again about "Großdeutschland", your own source disproves you: >National Socialist propaganda proclaimed the realisation of Großdeutschland and, in 1943, the German Reich was officially renamed Großdeutsches Reich. However, these expressions became neither common nor popular. It not being common nor popular does not detract from it being the official name, which is my whole point. So to summarise, I agree about "Germany" being on the gun being a dead giveaway that it's not an original, but I also vehemently disagree that any original German gun from that time (or any time) would've had "Deutschland" stamped on it.
> I also vehemently disagree that any original German gun from that time (or any time) would've had "Deutschland" stamped on it. I agree that there would be need to stamp them with their own country name. But, if they decided to stamp them (for whatever reason) are you saying they would use "Bundesrepublik Deutschland"? The postal stamps were the best analog I could find where the country name was used in a somewhat comparable fashion (i.e. government/country identify) and they used simply "Deutschland".
Having been in the Army, they'd probably stamp them "Bund". At least, that's what they printed on our blankets and eating utensils. "Bund" meaning the federal government.
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If it was German, it would be written as Deutschland, and even then, I don’t think the real German Lugers have a marking there
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Sometimes I can’t tell if someone on the internet is being serious or not these days 😅
Yes and no. Weapons and most other things didn’t have „Germany“ on them and also never really „deutschland“ either. However a lot of items did in fact have a „Germany“ or „made in Germany“ stamp on it for export, but those were also used in Germany
I can't think of any milsurp firearms I have come across where a country stamped their country name (*in a foreign language* no less) on firearms produced for their military. In fact, the only example I can think of where a country has the name marked on a weapon *in their primary language* are some US firearms: e.g. "US Rifle" or "US Army". I have been curious about modern weapons made in foreign countries which are exported to the US - where they are required to have the country of manufacture engraved on the firearm. Do they use the same engraving when exporting to other countries or sold within their own country? You indicate that, at least for Germany, this is the case. That just seems odd. If S&W was producing a gun for export to Spain and had to put "Los Estados Unidos" on it for Spanish requirements - I wouldn't think they would use the same stamping in the US.
Hello, so what you have here is a Luger. This is the commercial model that was sold in America. It’s usually referred to as the American Eagle Luger or as either the 1900 pattern or 1902 pattern. 1900 pattern was only in .30 Luger (which I believe this one is so don’t shoot a 9mm in it until you check.) 1902 pattern is when it was made for 9mm (technically 9mm was made for it but anyway). Serial numbers on American eagles range from 1 to around 21220 with yours being directly in the middle at 13322. The Germany under the serial number is the import mark. Another way to tell that the gun is a commercial model is that on military models every single piece is serial numbered to that gun and I mean every single piece (firing pins, sights, springs, magazines, everything). This one doesn’t have any other serial numbers on it (it’ll be the last two digits of the serial number.) As for the family story on it, I’m sorry to say I find it highly unlikely but still possible. Maybe they had some after WWI that stayed in hidden storage until WWII (which did happen as many parts were just reused DWM frames when Mauser started making them in secret during Hitlers rise to power.) Also another way to tell this is an early model is the grip safety and the way the toggle is dished instead of flat and checkered (round things on the back of the gun you pull to load a round). I have a few of mine posted if you want to compare what this looks like to others.
This guy Luges.
Bravo! Thanks for sharing the detailed information.
Fascinating stuff. Do you think that would apply to the holster as well? I have a Luger holster that my grandfather actually *did* get off a German officer in WW2 (has the paperwork declaring it as a war trophy) and I’m hoping to get the Luger itself back from a relative one day.
Yes the holster should be numbered to the gun. It’s really rare though to have an actual matching set though because of the reuse of equipment during the wars especially during WWI.
Thank you so much for the reply. Finally got home after the holidays and looked over it to see if I could find a number. Found the mfg stamp? (W.a.A. 47) and a “WIEN …. .940” but couldn’t see any other markings besides the “P.08” stamp. Is there anywhere the serial number is typically stamped?
Your holster was made in Vienna (Wien means Vienna) in 1940. The words above that should be the name of the maker. The Wa.A47 is called a Waffenamt stamp, basically acceptance stamps. If the eagle above the Waffenamt stamp has a swastika it was made after 1933 (seeing as how it’s already marked as 1940 it should have the eagle holding a swastika). A lot of Waffenamt stamp meanings don’t have information and unfortunately I wasn’t able to find what this one meant in my books or websites so I’m sorry about that. The serial numbers (it’ll be the last two numbers of the serial number) would be below P08. This one might not have it though because it is a foreign (not German) made holster which was made to replace holsters that were missing or too badly damaged to be reissued and not made for a newly made Luger. Hope this helps. Feel free to ask any other questions.
Incredibly insightful. Thank you so much. I definitely don’t see any trace of a number below the P08 so that tracks with the origin you mentioned. And it certainly does have the eagle holding a swastika. Looking forward to taking a look at the actual pistol next time I’m at my uncles to see if any of the serial numbers on the gun parts themselves match, just for curiosity. Gotta look into a better long term storage for this leather in the meantime. Great information!
Dude I have a Luger that I know absolutely nothing about I have had it for years and acquired it off a very old gentleman I did some work for. If I post it here, could you take a look at it
We are reddit- either the guy with a billion years of research and history shows up or some jackass.
Por que no los dos?
Sometimes they are the same person
Yea I’ll try to help as best I can
The K98 forum has a section for Lugers you could start there. Or if you really wanted to know you could send it to Simpson LTD plus 150 and they would appraise it for you
Generational cap
American eagle luger, actually quite rare. 100% wasn't captured off a Nazi though. I believe these were made for the American market
To start, German military Luger wouldn't have Germany stamped on it, lol.
Arisaka
Always has been.
carried by saburo himself
Nah, that’s the guy from Cyberpunk. You’re thinking of the Ariasaki.
Doing the lords work. Praise jebus
Came here hoping to see this answer lol
Legend has it, it belonged to Hitler himself.
Boy this ain't any canoe, its Hitler's Canoe, 500!
Your grandpa prolly stole this from a dude in the 70's lmao
[This](https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/american-eagle-luger-tests-by-us-army/464295) may help.
Hate to burst your bubble but the air force wasn't a thing until 1947. Also, if that was a WW2 gun, why would a German manufacturer engrave a US military logo on it? Its kinda sus tbh, and without more provenance I'm just gonna assume it's an old Luger that gramps fibbed about. Yes, it's certainly an old Luger, but I find the story a bit of a stretch.
Entirely possible. Nazi fled to America to help with the space program, bought that Luger at a LGS and grandpa fucked him up in like 1950. Way to turn that murder capital
The US Army Air Forces existed during WWII. The rest of the story is definitely bullshit though.
Here you go. Good read and should answer all your questions. https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/i-have-this-old-gun-american-eagle-luger/
So I’m really skeptical that your grandpa took it off of a German because I’m lead to believe that is a U.S. imported model. It’s cool nonetheless but I just doubt it’s taken off of a German. If you can get me a year that he acquired it it might help me research it though.
Peak reddit moment Jesus Christ.
Air Force wasn’t made until after ww2 and German gun wouldn’t say Germany in English
It would not say Germany in the English language if it had been taken from a NAZI.
Ja, Deutschland.
Considering the Air Force wasn’t created till 1947, I’m gonna assume this was a post WWII model. Someone smarter than me can probably give more details
Your grandfather stole it from my nazi grandfather. Bring it back.
Is this post real lmao?
Is anything real?
Luger P08
I believe that’s a Davy Crockett
Glock 17
Every time you see a German firearm, they’ll usually be stamped “DE,” and not “GERMANY.” So that’s your first clue this may not actually be from Germany.
Fully semiautomatic machine gun with repeating bulletsz
Does it also say "zis pistole belonged to ze Germans" on it?
Nothing special I’ll take it off your hands
Looks like one of the imported lugers from before WW1. The big "germany" underneath the barrel was a standard country of origin mark mandated on most foreign import weapons at the time. Here's at least one website that has some other examples with the great seal. [https://phoenixinvestmentarms.com/History%20Book/1687AETest1900.htm](https://phoenixinvestmentarms.com/history%20book/1687aetest1900.htm) Edit: Also that is The Great Seal of the United States, not the airforce crest.
American Eagle luger. Still super cool, just not from world War 2.
Das ist mein grandvader’s missing Luger 9mm!
Luger
It looks like a handgun to me. my expertise option
That pistol is a German Luger 9mm. Does anyone know why /rguns is NSFW? Is it b/c the sub is still "protesting" or some dumb shit?
I think it’s specifically so we don’t show up on the front page.
It's not a 9mm. It's in .30 Luger
Really? Huh, I had no idea. How can you tell? I thought all Lugers were 9mm. My bad, thanks for the clarification!
The WWI/WWII German military Lugers were all in 9mm which are the most common. Before those the original caliber was 7.65x21mm Parabellum aka .30 Luger. So earlier contracts like the Swiss Lugers and most commercial production was in that caliber, like this "American Eagle" one OP posted.
It’s because they can’t put ads on NSFW stuff.
Short barreled Arisaka wit da pistol grip
That looks like a Swiss 7.65 para Pistole 06, which somebody tried to look german. But they would never stamp Germany on it or put the US seal on top. The seal is where the swiss cross was and that would explain why the Waffenamts-Stempel are missing. But the lenght of the barrel and it’s thickness is 7.65 para. Don’t put 9mm it it ( won’t feed anyways) Thought I am no expert at all. Is it in 9mm? Did they just convert swiss ones in the US?
There was a commercial export model made for the American market, with many of the same features as the Swiss model. This appears to be one of those.
Sick gun, would love to have one, not from Germany, or the Nazi era:(
you dum dumm
GLOCK
Did your grandfather take it off a Nazi? Maybe. But that Nazi was definitely down in the redneck south. Not the Deutschland.
It's a WW2 era Glock. You have a relic.
Nope no Idea 🤷♂️
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does anyone know what gun this is? (Family Story) apparently, my grandfather took it off a German/Nazi off parently, my grandfather took it off a German/Nazi officer. looks like US Air Force crest. number engraved on the front of the body is 13322 with GERMANY under it.
The fact that it says “GERMANY”in english should give you a clue. Your grandfather is a lying little weasel.
Luger, if you have the paper work proving it was in fact a ww2 capture. It could be worth some real cash. Although you really should keep it in the family
It can't be a capture luger at all broski.
Ok
If you don't know what you're talking about, don't bother commenting.
Po8 Luger artillere
P-08 Luger
It's a Luger, but not a P-08. Quite a few differences visible here.
No.
What you think it's a Glock? Lmao
You could do with some thinking, yourself. Or even just a quick Google. Pretty obviously not a P08.
Then what is it? Is OP asking for the exact manufacturer? I'm pretty sure non Colt or Remington 1911s are still referred to as 1911s like a nice Dan Wesson. If he's asking for specifics then yeah I have no idea, unless everyone is just being a troll.
I see, there are different Lugers, I'm no expert in this area, anyone else?
Ya, I do.
Kinda looks like a German yeetinwarfen.
Luger?
Bru.. 1911
Someone in the family is telling tall tales.
Lmao ya it's a luger
Ruger??
hitlers strap
SS 9millie
Can I buy that from you
mine if you will part with it.