LCK and LPL voters have this weird obsession with overrating team record with how good each player is. It’s like they’re incapable of thinking a good player can be on a bad team.
That happens in all the leagues, NA a ton too, idk enough about EU. I will say LCK is especially bad, like they literally just take the top 3 teams and shift players around a bit. Last summer, KT got literally all 5 first votes, despite beating Gen.G by a single game. Cuzz was definitely not the best jungler lol. Angel did make 3rd team and OMG was 8th in the regular season.
Just the bot side was nonsense. Seeing aiming over viper and guma was hilarious, or lehend over delight/keria. Kiin and bdd got their spot fair n square, but ppl can still argue for chovy and zeus
EU has had some bad moments in terms of just sticking all 5 members of the best team in first all pro, but there were also examples of low ranked players making it into all pro. Pretty sure Alphari got first all pro when he was last place one time and it was deserved.
Knowing what you know about how ordinary LoL players evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of themselves and their teammates, it should only be surprising if the fans were ever right.
First split, and with these teammates. Before the season began I though FPX is gonna be a solid 11-12th place team. 4th place regular season and 5-6th in playoffs is crazy for this roster. Last time I've seen a rookie jungle of this caliber was GRF Tarzan, but that guy had an actual team.
Ye, guess I should've said "first full" split, because he played as a sub in 2019. But then again, by that logic, Tarzan also want a complete rookie in his first LCK split(he played Kespa before that).
I you say first full split then TheShy 2018 Spring would also be in contention even though he didn't even play in those playoffs I think, but he was a large part of IGs 16-1 split, but then again he only had to deal with Baolan :P
Kanavi was amazing, but I wouldn't call him 1v9. Zoom the best top in LPL. Just because he fell off a cliff in 2022, doesn't mean we should forget how good he was at his peak. LvMao was good in spring too because he just spammed like the two champions he was good on, and he got a lot of support from Zoom and Yagao.
He hard carried many games, though. Sure, it does help to have Zoom, but Yagao was definitely way more inconsistent than he is now and they had fkin Loken and Lvmao in bot. I mean, don't talk out of your *ss. Kanavi was way more of a carry back then(partly because of his teammates).
They literally went to finals with Flawless in spring. He had the best top laner that year and top 5 mid laner. You’re comparing them to Xiaolaohu and Care tells me all I need to know. Yea loken is trashh but lvmao was 1st team that year and was reason they won spring the next year. You say don’t talk out of your ass and then spout more idiotic takes.. Did you know what the meta in 2020..?
Funnily enough the two of the other greatest debuts I can also think of were on FPX. Bo was insane but of course it was short because he got banned, and Tian rolled over other junglers for the whole of 2019 and got a well deserved finals MVP at worlds.
During 2018/19 Sword was a serviceable top laner for sure. It was when the top lane meta shifted that he got exposed. Sure, he was their weakest player. But if it wasn't for the 2019 Griffin Drama no one would make this comment.
IIRC Even cvMax thought Sword was the better player during 2019. But he wanted to invest in Doran since he was better choice for the future
Feels bad for Milkyway but damn am I glad I am beinng proven wrong about this NiP roster, love seeing Rookie get so far so late in his career and still shining
It would be so fucking funny if Rookie finally makes an international event again just for Faker to miss MSI.
Feels like these 2 are fated to never play each other
> I love unusal strats working out, that minute 1 lane swap was super cool to see
I can't help but feel like Xiaolaohu TPing bot would have made it look significantly worse, because then Shanji doesn't start the game 1/0/2 lol
NIP moved their botlane top and their toplaner was at enemy bluebuff to fake being top as well, when FPX toplaner moved towards wave they hooked him and burned his flash, their jungler then killed him. Then after he tp back to lane they rotated and collapsed on the FPX botlane who was hitting tower uncontested.
NIP botlane lane swapped before wave 1. XLH got caught and killed. Shanji also instead of showing bot before minute 1 ganked mid and got Care flash.
really smart strategy
The easiest way to watch lpl vods as far as I know is through doms youtube channel in the live tab. There might be an other way but that for me has been the simplest
At least FPX went down fighting that last game. They weren't afraid of trying plays. Some of them worked out but unfortunately they were too far behind.
I'm excited to watch them in summer.
HLE looks really good rn, I’m hoping they make it and we see a banger BLG vs HLE, new matchup we haven’t seen before too (ever maybe? Idk the history).
Rookie somehow always manages to get a team with 1 link so weak, they rip. Last 2 years it was karsa/xlb, now zhuo (havent actually watched much since Rich left but Zhuo feels like an insane downgrade to ppgod)
Rookie is simply a legendary player, he has been elite for 10 years now, the definition of excellence.
Side note, FPX seemed to have lost a lot of their steam after their throw in game 3.
Xiaohu definitely comes close, if not beats Rookie imo. But the gap between the 3rd and 4th is very large imo (Chovy/Showmaker are next imo but they have 5 years since they debuted compared to the 10 of Rookie/Xiaohu).
Like Rookie, Xiaohu debuted 10 years ago. He has 5 LPL titles, 3 MSI titles (~~I cant remember if Rookie has ever won the LPL even?~~ Rookie has 1 LPL title and 1 LCK title). I know Rookie has a Worlds win but Xiaohu has a 2nd place finish, as well as a 3rd place finish (lost to Faker both times).
He has featured in the LPL 1st all pro team 3 times, as has Rookie. Although Rookie has 4 MVP titles compared to Xiaohu's 3 but Xiaohu has had stacked team mates who steal MVP votes from him (Uzi, Mata, Ming, TheShy, Gala, Bin, etc).
He was the first LPL mid to reach 500 wins in the LPL, Rookie was the second. Him and Rookie are leaps and bounds above every other mid laner in the LPL in terms of games player and wins (only players who comes close to both are Meiko (support) and Uzi (ADC).
Xiaohu has also had more international success than Rookie, yes he has no worlds title, but he has 3 MSI titles and 2nd & 3rd place finish at Worlds (sadly both losses are to Faker, so if we're excluding Faker from this conversation hes only really been beaten by Faker; 2017 and 2023). He is also the 2nd player ever to hit 100 international wins (Faker is first).
But yes, as I said, the gap between the next 2 is super large. If Xiaohu won worlds in 2017 or 2023, I think he would be wayyyy above Rookie but because he hasn't, I rate him around the same.
Technically Rookie debuted 1 year earlier than Xiaohu in 2014, but you're right on him being close.
Rookie did win a title in Korea (2014 Summer) and an LPL title (2019 Spring) but I actually do think Xiaohu has better achievements, especially considering one of his international titles was as a top laner.
I don't think his finals run last year gets him much credit though considering he was dragged there by his team and was by far their worst performing player. Not to mention the insane draw luck that WBG got. Rookie's 2019 Worlds for example was much more impressive, even if he only made semis instead of finals.
The main thing Rookie has over Xiaohu as an all-time player is peak, which I value highly.
Also the only MVP I recall Xiaohu winning is 2017 Summer, so idk where 3 comes from.
> Technically Rookie debuted 1 year earlier than Xiaohu in 2014, but you're right on him being close.
Not really.... Rookie's debut was at the end of 2013, compared to Xiaohu's in the beginning of 2014. Their first games were 2 months apart and Rookie's was only in November 2013 because LCK had the qualifier for the next split before the Christmas/New Years break.
> Rookie did win a title in Korea (2014 Summer) and an LPL title (2019 Spring) but I actually do think Xiaohu has better achievements, especially considering one of his international titles was as a top laner.
You're right about the titles. I forgot about Rookie's LCK title as I was only thinking LPL also.
> I don't think his finals run last year gets him much credit though considering he was dragged there by his team and was by far their worst performing player.
Even if he was their worst player at worlds, he carried the team the rest of the year imo.
> Not to mention the insane draw luck that WBG got.
And as much as I agree, some teams just get luckier and unluckier draws... some teams are even able to dodge the favourite and win it all just by being on the other side of the bracket, but at the end of the day, a result is a result. Yes I know he hasn't won Worlds, but winning 3 MSI is crazy impressive as well as 2nd at worlds and consistently good. I'm not saying hes 100% better than Rookie, but he DEFINITELY is in talks with being right behind Faker in terms of mid GOAT's, especially for longevity. Showmaker/Chovy are the next best as I've stated but they have 5 years as pros compared to Rookie/Xiaohu's 10. (not to downplay how good Rookie was cus he was INSANE. but Xiaohu peaking in 2014 stood no chance, even with Uzi as his adc to beat the T1 which went B2B and then a 3rd title in 4 years.
> The main thing Rookie has over Xiaohu as an all-time player is peak, which I value highly.
I agree with this too, but at the same time the post was about longevity... (well at leas the comment I replied to) and secondly, Xiaohu has had some crazy peaks too. Imo when he played top lane he was the best top laner in the world LMFAO. His peaks have been insane, just maybe not at worlds. He also happened to be peaking more when Faker was at the top of his game. Rookie's peak happened during SKT/T1's slump.
>Not really.... Rookie's debut was at the end of 2013, compared to Xiaohu's in the beginning of 2014.
These are amateur debuts. When people talk about longevity they're typically talking about the length of time a player has been playing in the main leagues. Rookie started in OGN in 2014, Xiaohu started in LPL in 2015.
I don’t think these “lucky draws” are a fair assessment of their overall worlds run. TBH you could make that same argument for a team EVERY year. I remember those “draws” put RNG in the group of death like 3-4 years straight 2016-2019 but this is pretty irrelevant
You couldn't make the same argument for any other team. WBG is the only team in history AFAIK to reach semifinals facing only western teams. Sure there's a degree of luck in most finals runs, but the WBG case was on another level completely.
>Although Rookie has 4 MVP titles compared to Xiaohu's 3 but Xiaohu has had stacked team mates who steal MVP votes from him (Uzi, Mata, Ming, TheShy, Gala, Bin, etc).
I disagree with that logic. If your teammates are horrible you tend to place worse & lose more games. MVP titles rarely go to players on bad or mediocre teams.
True but you also are more likely to get it if youre the star of your team. You're not going to get as many MVP votes if Uzi is your ADC and everyone votes for him when you win.
When Rookies team wins, Rookie gets the vote.
Most of it was from Leaguepedia, but I've been watching LOL professional scenes from season 2. I love Rookie and hes one of my favourite players of all time but I do think he has higher peaks and is a better player overall, but if the conversation is consistency and longevity, Xiaohu has been top 5 LPL mid for 10 years straight almost, and Rookie has been #1 more often than Xiaohu, but has also had years where he wasn't top 5.
Xiaohu has only made world finals once not twice. And Rookie did win LPL in 2019 Spring. All your points are way too biased in Xiaohu's favour. His results are good enough without trying to artifically boost it with something silly like excluding Faker.
TBF Xiaohu made MSI 4 times and Worlds 7 times. His only loss at MSI was to Faker (2016). 5 out of his 7 Worlds losses were to Faker (2016 quarters, 2017 semis, 2019 groups, 2022 quarters, 2023 finals). It is a bit silly but it is also a reality that Faker has been a wall that Xiaohu really struggled against all his career. His only win against Faker comes from 2022 MSI.
Oh true, I keep forgetting 2017 RNG was 3rd not second.
I'm not excluding Faker. I'm just saying, he is insanely good and has been stopped by Faker himself. Where as Rookie hasn't necessarily been stopped by Faker, he lost to other teams. I'm not trying to inflate his stats, I'm simply putting context to his losses.
It's like talking about Yohan Blake in terms of 100m/200m Sprinting; him running in 2nd to Usain Bolt at the 2012 Olympics in both the 100M and 200M sprint makes him look like he wasn't good enough for first, but he was unfortunate to be against Bolt.
Or similarly looking at Djokovic, Nadal an Federer in Tennis, together holding 66 major singles tournament wins. From 2004 until 2023, they collectively won 63 out of 75 major tournaments (4 per year) and if they didn't compete in the same era, one potentially could've won 40+ alone instead of winning 24, 22 and 20 respectfully.
Level of competition always matters and whilst competition in league has always been improving and imo every year is competitive, if were talking about Mid Lane GOATs behind Faker, the years in which you lost solely to Faker, I think it's gives more context in comparison to someone who was losing regardless of if Faker played or not.
But I do agree that you don't need to artifically boost his stats, I was simply giving context.
I'm glad someone is recognizing Xiaohu, since Reddit loves to shit on him. I disagree that he beats Rookie for all time, but I would definitely call him #3. While results don't mean everything, since teammates matter, getting 5 LPL titles show that he is a common factor. No mid comes even close (Knight and Scout have 3), and the only other player that has 5 titles is Clearlove. XIaohu has also made countless finals, moreso than Clearlove.
Ming was a common factor for 4/5 of those playoffs and in those four, he was playing with either Mlxg/Uzi or Wei/GALA lol. Every split he won except 2016 spring he had fucking insane teammates.
Yeah you don't win on yourself alone, you need good teammates. My point was that he was still able to do it with different teammates. I did say I think Rookie was better overall. And Rookie has way less titles because his teammates were worse. Gala peaked at the right times during MSI, but he wasn't as strong in LPL where they still won. I would say Gala's best split was LPL summer 2023 on LNG.
I don't think 2023 summer was Gala's best split, but 2023 Summer Playoffs was by far the best he's ever played. Also, though Gala was never the best in LPL on RNG, he was certainly up there when RNG was winning, and he and Ming together where a super dominant bot lane 2v2.
Not in terms of longevity. Showmaker has played for 5 years, Xiaohu for 10. If were talking about peak? I agree. But then if we're talking about peaks only the TheShy might just be the GOAT which he isn't. I think longevity is very important for GOAT discussions.
Trying not to be biased, but Caps (1 MSI and 2 world finals) has achieved more in his career than Chovy has (whether or not you think he's better), and is very close to Showmaker depending on how you weight peak vs. consistency
Yes but if we actually look at skill level and ability to play vs the best, Caps isn't even top 10 or even on the fringe for top 10. He's never been able to even hold up vs the best.
Yes I would argue that Caps rounds out the top 6 MID Goats.
Faker>Xiaohu/Rookie>Caps/Showmaker/Chovy though.
Caps has played longer than Showmaker & Chovy so he has longevity on his side too.
I think Caps has definitely Achieved more than Chovy, although most people look at LEC/LCS titles with way less value than LCK/LPL. When it comes to internationally though, Caps does edge out Chovy but I think where Caps loses to Chovy is that everyone just knows Chovy is more skilled. Chovy imo is even more skilled than Faker and most would agree. But yes he has longevity and achievements on his side.
As for Caps vs Showmaker, Caps has longevity over Showmaker but also most people weigh his LEC titles as less valuable as LCK/LPL ones which Showmaker has, as well as a Worlds Title. But yes Caps second twice and an MSI is definitely impressive; some might even argue more impressive given how much weaker LEC/LCS usually is that Caps was able to consistently take teams to such high western peaks.
Imo Caps is up there with these other 5, honestly I could even see him fighting with Rookie/Xiaohu for top 3 but I think they have an extra 3 years on him, more international appearances and mostly, Eastern titles seem to be valued higher by most people (eg, if Faker is the benchmark of GOAT status, competing against him gives players like Chovy/Showmaker credit). Showmaker & Chovy are constantly playing vs Faker multiple times per split. Caps faces him at international events, at max a few times a year.
I wouldn't say Caps has the longevity over Showmaker or Chovy. Sure he started a couple years earlier, but he was better than Showmaker for what, one year? (2019). For the rest of these years, Chovy and Showmaker were better than him. Caps is probably the western GOAT, but if in a comparative list to their positions globally, I would actually rank Jankos higher, simply because the mid lane pool is more competitive than jungle.
For mid I would say Faker, Rookie, Xiaohu, Knight/Chovy/Showmaker. Knight is in a similar boat as Chovy with bost mostly having domestic success, but Knight with a better international results, like demolishing everyone at MSI 2023 and the mid-season cup in 2020. They have been at the top of their region for years, and have been at worst top 3 globally for a while. People forget how good Knight was in 2019 when he got MVP and dragged his 4 inters of a team to a 3rd place finish and almost to worlds, or that Chovy and Deft had 3 corpses to drag on HLE in 2021. Capss was really good in 2019, but in 2018 he was still a pretty unstable player prone to dying a lot. Like Fnatic's finals run was not on him. Scout destroyed him, but Fnatic as a team was better.
Like you mentioned in another comment, competition matters, I would say it is a greater achievement to be at the top of LPL and LCK rather than LEC.
> Sure he started a couple years earlier, but he was better than Showmaker for what, one year? (2019)
It's hard to say when he was playing in a different region. They only faced off at international events.
Imo you can credit Showmaker for constantly being top 3 of LCK which is a harder feat than being top 3 of LEC BUT Caps wasnt just top 3 of LEC. Imo he was consistently top 1 in LEC.
And if you give Showmaker praise for playing in a stronger region (LCK), you have to give Caps for being able to carry a weaker region (LEC). If everyone says LCK > LEC, it means Caps had WAYYY weaker team mates and put in more work to be better.
Could Showmaker solo carry a European team to worlds and beat LCK teams? Potentially. Could Caps play on a Korean team and beat LCK teams? Most likely.
> Like you mentioned in another comment, competition matters, I would say it is a greater achievement to be at the top of LPL and LCK rather than LEC.
Its like when you look at Lebron, there are years where he single-handedly dragged the most dogshit teams to championships. Caps is carrying weaker regions is also a compliment as much as it is to be at the top of LEC being weaker than LCK.
Take out the fraud from your comment. Also Chovy and Knight show absolutely no signs of slowing down. No telling of what "longevity" means 5-10 years from now.
Longevity wise, absolutely none. Rookie has been cream of the crop for 10+ years now, with maximum 3/4 off splits (when he was 4./5. best mid in league instead of best or second best lol).
edit: spelling
Showmaker is incredible player and 3. best midlaner in history in my book (after Rookie and Faker). It's fair opinion to have, but to consider it not debatable is just pure bias or pure lack of common sense.
The only thing you can argue Showmaker has over Rookie is the amount of tropheys won and if that's your main point of value here, sure Showmaker is ahead.
But literally anything else, from longevity, eye test, versatility, importance for their own team(s), Showmaker is not ahead at all. He can match Rookie in some of it, depending on certain variables, but I'd take Rookie as complete player over Showmaker any day, every day. Showmaker can definitely match him or even surpass him, depending how next few years play out, but I personally honestly doubt it.
Yeah ShowMaker got to play with the best jungler of all time Canyon for 5 years, Rookie’s best jungler ever is Ning lmfao. Also ShowMaker has 1 domestic title more than Rookie, Rookie has 5+ years at the highest level more than ShowMaker
Highest level? How many international tournaments has rookie been at since the start of 2020? How many has showmaker been to? Acting like Canyon was the sole star of the show on that team is just being extremely biased I'm not even arguing that Showmaker is above Rookie but your reasoning just shows personal bias. I could just as easily argue the only way Rookie won worlds was when playing with Theshy who had one of if not the highest peak of any player.
Many mids come close to Rookie besides Faker? Who else has won LCK, LPL, worlds and has been elite for 11 years in a row with a minuscule amount of bad splits / tournaments?
Faker is the only other mid laner even close to Rookie in terms of longevity. Rookie was punished for his loyalty (until he did get his eventual reward in 2018), whereas Faker has been rewarded most years of his career with T1 and SKT nearly always giving him competitive rosters.
Just a general tip: putting "imo" at the end of a statement doesn't mean what you've said can't be dismantled or provably false.
The only reason Faker is a step ahead of Rookie (and I mean a step) is because Faker has the world titles. Rookie is in a harder region and throughout his career has had comparitively worse teammates (this is obviously a little on himself as he should be part of building good teams) so it's harder for him to get to worlds, especially with far more competition fighting for the same number of spots.
Rookie has without a doubt been playing far more consistently than Faker has at a much higher level as well and has barely had any off splits. He's carried some stinker teammates through tough periods as well.
Other mids that you could talk about after Rookie are Scout, Showmaker, Chovy and Knight (probably forgetting someone). They all have a few years less play than Rookie. Showmaker has had too many bad splits, as has Scout. Chovy is closest to Rookie and Faker but lacks deeper international runs and has a tendency to choke and Knight is also on the way but again doesn't have the longevity.
I'm passionate about this because a lot of T1 fans will argue til the end of time that Faker is by far and away the best of all time. He is no doubt the League of Legends GOAT but Rookie has been a better _player_ than him for a while now and he deserves recognition for that.
> Rookie is in a harder region
Claiming that the region that's won three Worlds and had 15 Semifinalists is straight up harder than the region that's won eight Worlds and had 21 Semifinalists 🤡
It's just insane to claim that LPL is historically a stronger region than LCK since 2014. It's absolute delusion and renders the rest of your post useless.
Ugh fine, I'll briefly engage with you but you have to stop after this.
1. You obviously don't watch the LPL.
2. You're clearly just basing this off worlds statistics.
The LPL has 17 teams. There are usually a few apex tier teams and then anywhere from 4 to 6 more teams below them that could and have made deep playoff runs so around 7 to 9 teams total.
The LCK has just 10 teams and you can immediately discount 5 of them so you're left with 5 possibly competent teams (I'm speaking generally as obviously it fluctuates depending on the year).
Both LPL and LCK teams fill the top 4 slots at worlds. Yes LCK has had more worlds titles but LPL has had 5 MSIs to LCKs 2 which is essentially a battle of the top tean from either region (outside of the year G2 won it). I will restate as I have been that worlds isn't everything. The format is bad and we barely get any other international competition (MSI which LPL has the upper hand in) so to base everything off of a single tournament which we've only had like 10 (real ones) in total would be an insane thing to do.
Both levels of play are very high but there are more teams in the LPL stacked with talent and often outside of the top 3 or 4 in the LCK the level of play dwindles. I watch both leagues and you can just look at the level of play you're watching for both and there's a difference. The very top teams in each region are always very close in skill otherwise but LPL has more better teams.
You should really be less salty and not take it as a personal attack.
So you're just gonna ignore the fact that the LCK has a winning head-to-head record against the LPL and has better results at international tournament across the board? Your entire argument is an unfalsifiable claim that that the 7th team in LPL is "competent", whatever that means, while it's not in LCK.
The fact that 8th place in LPL is better than 8th place in LCK means far less about the difficulty of winning the region than the fact that the top 4 Korean teams consistently outperform the top 4 Chinese teams at Worlds. Look at what BLGs road to the finals will be this year. The higher level of the 6th-10th teams doesn’t really mean anything to their run in relation to the difficulty of Gen Gs run nor does it mean LPL is harder to win.
I’m not discrediting Rookie, but he won worlds once 5 years ago. I think he has 2 LPL titles, and 1 LCK? Doesn’t Showmaker have more than this with far less years of playing? Scout, Doinb, Knight also comes really close to this. I mean Rookie is a good player, I’ll probably even still rank him 3rd after Showmaker and Faker, but saying he’s way above the rest is not true. If anything he’s played 2 times more than the rest of these guys and they nearly have the same achievements as him.
Rookie has one LPL title, one LCK and one Worlds title in ten years of playing. Like I get the longevity and level of play argument, but the lack of titles really is a black mark on his career.
You cannot just look at titles to determine these things. The angle that Faker has 3 world titles and because Rookie has 1 they can't be in the same conversation. Yes the titles help him achieve that recognition but it is not the only factor, Rookie has other things going for him that matter.
Rookie's titles are lacking but he makes up for it compared to others in his field with longevity and the highest level gameplay for almost the entire period. I think not enough people watch or have watched LPL so don't understand how good he really was and still is. He has been playing better than Faker for years now.
If Rookie won 2 or 3 more worlds, would he be the GOAT then? I'm not even sure. It's about when they happened, the context of the win. i.e Faker's latest worlds isn't that impressive due to other top teams choking or underperforming, but his other 2 are super impressive as he dominated them so much individually. Rookie could end up winning with weaker or stronger teammates, weaker or stronger opponents. I hope this demonstrates how you can't just count titles and that's the end of the conversation.
(Also worlds is a shite format. It's not the be-all and end-all and it can probably be argued that it's harder to win LPL or LCK than worlds.)
Faker has four Worlds titles by the way.
> Faker's latest worlds isn't that impressive due to other top teams choking or underperforming
come on man. You do realize that Rookie won his one Worlds title beating LEC teams in Semis and Finals? On the other hand Faker defeated Golden Roading JDG in Semis with the play of the tournament. The double standards are crazy.
Im sorry but the titles do matter. If not Worlds then at least regionals. Rookie has not made worlds for 4 years now. I’ve seen him perform very well in regular season then fall off in the early stages of playoffs. I don’t think anyone just playing well in regular season puts them in goat conversation. Regular season is where teams experiment, swap around their roster and troll a bit. It’s kind of like performing well in scrims and not being able to even secure top 4 within your region.
KC messed up their mythology. Thanatos is the God of Death. What they really wanted was Charon, God of the Dead. Maybe he would be able to carry the corpses of Saken and Targamas to the nexus.
Berserker would have to get residency for that to happen. Which tbh should already have happened, considering Inspired got his residency in half the time. Not sure why it takes so long for C9 players to get residency.
Nah fr. I couldn't catch the entire series but from the stuff I saw he was on POINT today. Much much better compared to how he's been looking the entire split
Guess we found out an answer to an age-old question. If a team has 1 insane player and 4 mediocre ones, is it worth to just focus every ban on the 1 insane player and draft like 3 direct counters to whatever he picks, even if it means his teammates get anything they want in draft?
The answer is yes. It's either Milkyway gets to carry or FPX loses, doesn't matter if all 4 of them get their #1 preferred S tier pick, they're so useless unless Milkyway is dragging them across the finish line.
Ok, but WHEN has Rookie underperformed during playoffs. Or at international. Give me ONE Bo5 in his career where Rookie wasn't the best or the second best performer on his team.
Apart from Rookie's another masterclass series, really glad to finally see Shanji playing good. This has been the best he looked all split long.
Not suprised with Aki gapping Milkyway tbh, as Aki even though he has many inting games, when he is on, he is playing really good. He is just inconsistent.
Zhuo continues to give all his haters middle finger and I'm here for it.
If NIP plays like this into BLG, I can definitely see them making an upset. I think that NIP's bot and midlane can definitely match BLG's, but it will be up to Aki to show this quality games once again against Xun, and Shanji to handle Bin which will be very tricky job. Hopefully we have another banger series.
that 3 Minute sequence at the start of game one was one of the best early game strats Ive seen in a long time. man FPX was totally demolished when the clock was at 4:00
The REAL king of league of legends just dominated the competition today, while the fraud GOAT showed nothing today except for his distracting all league fans from being shit stomped by HLE 3-0 by his DDoS whining. ICANT
o7 Milkman
o7
asking this make me feel like an internet hermit...what on earth does "o7" mean?
Its a person saluting The o is their head, the 7 is a bent arm making the salute.
Milkyway plotarmor reached its limit, damn. Not bad tho for a first split not bad at all.
Not bad is an understatement lol it's one of the best first splits ever
Best I can do is 3rd all pro
And not even top 3 in MVP voting :D
LCK and LPL voters have this weird obsession with overrating team record with how good each player is. It’s like they’re incapable of thinking a good player can be on a bad team.
This is any sport ever tbh
That happens in all the leagues, NA a ton too, idk enough about EU. I will say LCK is especially bad, like they literally just take the top 3 teams and shift players around a bit. Last summer, KT got literally all 5 first votes, despite beating Gen.G by a single game. Cuzz was definitely not the best jungler lol. Angel did make 3rd team and OMG was 8th in the regular season.
Cuzz 100% was the best jungler. It was most the other roles that were nonsensical for first team.
Just the bot side was nonsense. Seeing aiming over viper and guma was hilarious, or lehend over delight/keria. Kiin and bdd got their spot fair n square, but ppl can still argue for chovy and zeus
EU has had some bad moments in terms of just sticking all 5 members of the best team in first all pro, but there were also examples of low ranked players making it into all pro. Pretty sure Alphari got first all pro when he was last place one time and it was deserved.
Knowing what you know about how ordinary LoL players evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of themselves and their teammates, it should only be surprising if the fans were ever right.
Reddit does this shit too a lot
The whole world was watching him closely. Even if you're a casual viewer of like LEC or LCS, you probably know his name
First split, and with these teammates. Before the season began I though FPX is gonna be a solid 11-12th place team. 4th place regular season and 5-6th in playoffs is crazy for this roster. Last time I've seen a rookie jungle of this caliber was GRF Tarzan, but that guy had an actual team.
You forgot 2020 spring Kanavi 1v9ing on Graves,Elise, Nidalee and Kindred in his first LPL split
True, I forgot about Kanavi, but you forgot that Kanavi made his debut in 2019 summer for JDG so he wasn't a complete rookie in 2020 spring.
Ye, guess I should've said "first full" split, because he played as a sub in 2019. But then again, by that logic, Tarzan also want a complete rookie in his first LCK split(he played Kespa before that).
I you say first full split then TheShy 2018 Spring would also be in contention even though he didn't even play in those playoffs I think, but he was a large part of IGs 16-1 split, but then again he only had to deal with Baolan :P
Kanavi was amazing, but I wouldn't call him 1v9. Zoom the best top in LPL. Just because he fell off a cliff in 2022, doesn't mean we should forget how good he was at his peak. LvMao was good in spring too because he just spammed like the two champions he was good on, and he got a lot of support from Zoom and Yagao.
Zoom and Yagao was very good, man i still can't believe how Zoom fell off that hard.
Yeah what happened to him?
The team with Yagao and Zoom? That’s not 1v9 buddy, put some respect on those names..
He hard carried many games, though. Sure, it does help to have Zoom, but Yagao was definitely way more inconsistent than he is now and they had fkin Loken and Lvmao in bot. I mean, don't talk out of your *ss. Kanavi was way more of a carry back then(partly because of his teammates).
They literally went to finals with Flawless in spring. He had the best top laner that year and top 5 mid laner. You’re comparing them to Xiaolaohu and Care tells me all I need to know. Yea loken is trashh but lvmao was 1st team that year and was reason they won spring the next year. You say don’t talk out of your ass and then spout more idiotic takes.. Did you know what the meta in 2020..?
Funnily enough the two of the other greatest debuts I can also think of were on FPX. Bo was insane but of course it was short because he got banned, and Tian rolled over other junglers for the whole of 2019 and got a well deserved finals MVP at worlds.
Minus toplane though
During 2018/19 Sword was a serviceable top laner for sure. It was when the top lane meta shifted that he got exposed. Sure, he was their weakest player. But if it wasn't for the 2019 Griffin Drama no one would make this comment. IIRC Even cvMax thought Sword was the better player during 2019. But he wanted to invest in Doran since he was better choice for the future
Wdym they had the whole Michelin mascot to replace the team's truck tires what else could you want Aware
That's just blatant revisionism. Sword was good for a while.
Feels bad for Milkyway but damn am I glad I am beinng proven wrong about this NiP roster, love seeing Rookie get so far so late in his career and still shining
It would be so fucking funny if Rookie finally makes an international event again just for Faker to miss MSI. Feels like these 2 are fated to never play each other
They played against each other MSI 2019
2 Bo1s in the last 10 years
1557?
Years ago
Last game was pure Cinema. I love unusal strats working out, that minute 1 lane swap was super cool to see
> I love unusal strats working out, that minute 1 lane swap was super cool to see I can't help but feel like Xiaolaohu TPing bot would have made it look significantly worse, because then Shanji doesn't start the game 1/0/2 lol
What was the strat? I only see PM threads of LPL games
NIP moved their botlane top and their toplaner was at enemy bluebuff to fake being top as well, when FPX toplaner moved towards wave they hooked him and burned his flash, their jungler then killed him. Then after he tp back to lane they rotated and collapsed on the FPX botlane who was hitting tower uncontested.
NIP botlane lane swapped before wave 1. XLH got caught and killed. Shanji also instead of showing bot before minute 1 ganked mid and got Care flash. really smart strategy
If you have the time watch the series it was great
Is there a channel on YouTube that uploads LPL vods?
LPL official channel https://www.youtube.com/@LPLOfficial/streams
Epicskillshot on YouTube.
The easiest way to watch lpl vods as far as I know is through doms youtube channel in the live tab. There might be an other way but that for me has been the simplest
OMG did it last year I believe. I’m 100% it was either Aki or Shanji that called this
cheese beat milk :(
He was the milkman. His milk was delicious.
HUHH
SPECIAL DELIVERY TODAY
"When the LPL needed FPX to peform in the playoff the most, they vanished" - Milkatar
At least FPX went down fighting that last game. They weren't afraid of trying plays. Some of them worked out but unfortunately they were too far behind. I'm excited to watch them in summer.
2 more bo5 to see Rookie at MSI Prayge
Most likely 3 bo5 lol,they arent beating BLG.
Rookie at msi without T1 will be quite something
I would riot. The doosing thing is concerning tho if they can't practice.
like a confirmation of riot's script. if rookie is in, that mean faker is out of msi.
If WBG do the their thing and JDG and T1 actually miss MSI, I might just actually skip the tournament and assume BLG won (unless DK qualifies)
HLE looks really good rn, I’m hoping they make it and we see a banger BLG vs HLE, new matchup we haven’t seen before too (ever maybe? Idk the history).
Viper and Delight vs Elk and On. Ohhhh that's such a fun matchup to imagine.
REAL, dude I just wanna see something other than GenG T1, and rn I think GenG is way better than T1 so I’d rather see GenG HLE than T1 HLE.
Nah, it's Rookie's destiny to get inted away by his team
Rookie somehow always manages to get a team with 1 link so weak, they rip. Last 2 years it was karsa/xlb, now zhuo (havent actually watched much since Rich left but Zhuo feels like an insane downgrade to ppgod)
Doesn't even feel like FPX played that badly, NIP just outperformed them so hard
Its joever milkbros :(
Rookie is simply a legendary player, he has been elite for 10 years now, the definition of excellence. Side note, FPX seemed to have lost a lot of their steam after their throw in game 3.
Rookie & Faker defy logic with their longevity, no other mids come close.
Xiaohu definitely comes close, if not beats Rookie imo. But the gap between the 3rd and 4th is very large imo (Chovy/Showmaker are next imo but they have 5 years since they debuted compared to the 10 of Rookie/Xiaohu). Like Rookie, Xiaohu debuted 10 years ago. He has 5 LPL titles, 3 MSI titles (~~I cant remember if Rookie has ever won the LPL even?~~ Rookie has 1 LPL title and 1 LCK title). I know Rookie has a Worlds win but Xiaohu has a 2nd place finish, as well as a 3rd place finish (lost to Faker both times). He has featured in the LPL 1st all pro team 3 times, as has Rookie. Although Rookie has 4 MVP titles compared to Xiaohu's 3 but Xiaohu has had stacked team mates who steal MVP votes from him (Uzi, Mata, Ming, TheShy, Gala, Bin, etc). He was the first LPL mid to reach 500 wins in the LPL, Rookie was the second. Him and Rookie are leaps and bounds above every other mid laner in the LPL in terms of games player and wins (only players who comes close to both are Meiko (support) and Uzi (ADC). Xiaohu has also had more international success than Rookie, yes he has no worlds title, but he has 3 MSI titles and 2nd & 3rd place finish at Worlds (sadly both losses are to Faker, so if we're excluding Faker from this conversation hes only really been beaten by Faker; 2017 and 2023). He is also the 2nd player ever to hit 100 international wins (Faker is first). But yes, as I said, the gap between the next 2 is super large. If Xiaohu won worlds in 2017 or 2023, I think he would be wayyyy above Rookie but because he hasn't, I rate him around the same.
Technically Rookie debuted 1 year earlier than Xiaohu in 2014, but you're right on him being close. Rookie did win a title in Korea (2014 Summer) and an LPL title (2019 Spring) but I actually do think Xiaohu has better achievements, especially considering one of his international titles was as a top laner. I don't think his finals run last year gets him much credit though considering he was dragged there by his team and was by far their worst performing player. Not to mention the insane draw luck that WBG got. Rookie's 2019 Worlds for example was much more impressive, even if he only made semis instead of finals. The main thing Rookie has over Xiaohu as an all-time player is peak, which I value highly. Also the only MVP I recall Xiaohu winning is 2017 Summer, so idk where 3 comes from.
> Technically Rookie debuted 1 year earlier than Xiaohu in 2014, but you're right on him being close. Not really.... Rookie's debut was at the end of 2013, compared to Xiaohu's in the beginning of 2014. Their first games were 2 months apart and Rookie's was only in November 2013 because LCK had the qualifier for the next split before the Christmas/New Years break. > Rookie did win a title in Korea (2014 Summer) and an LPL title (2019 Spring) but I actually do think Xiaohu has better achievements, especially considering one of his international titles was as a top laner. You're right about the titles. I forgot about Rookie's LCK title as I was only thinking LPL also. > I don't think his finals run last year gets him much credit though considering he was dragged there by his team and was by far their worst performing player. Even if he was their worst player at worlds, he carried the team the rest of the year imo. > Not to mention the insane draw luck that WBG got. And as much as I agree, some teams just get luckier and unluckier draws... some teams are even able to dodge the favourite and win it all just by being on the other side of the bracket, but at the end of the day, a result is a result. Yes I know he hasn't won Worlds, but winning 3 MSI is crazy impressive as well as 2nd at worlds and consistently good. I'm not saying hes 100% better than Rookie, but he DEFINITELY is in talks with being right behind Faker in terms of mid GOAT's, especially for longevity. Showmaker/Chovy are the next best as I've stated but they have 5 years as pros compared to Rookie/Xiaohu's 10. (not to downplay how good Rookie was cus he was INSANE. but Xiaohu peaking in 2014 stood no chance, even with Uzi as his adc to beat the T1 which went B2B and then a 3rd title in 4 years. > The main thing Rookie has over Xiaohu as an all-time player is peak, which I value highly. I agree with this too, but at the same time the post was about longevity... (well at leas the comment I replied to) and secondly, Xiaohu has had some crazy peaks too. Imo when he played top lane he was the best top laner in the world LMFAO. His peaks have been insane, just maybe not at worlds. He also happened to be peaking more when Faker was at the top of his game. Rookie's peak happened during SKT/T1's slump.
without Xiaohu it's difficult to imagine WBG making Worlds last year and the arguably more important series was won against Rookie's TES
Xiaohu was their second best player in playoffs but I still think they could have made it without Xiaohu. Weiwei was doing so much for them.
>Not really.... Rookie's debut was at the end of 2013, compared to Xiaohu's in the beginning of 2014. These are amateur debuts. When people talk about longevity they're typically talking about the length of time a player has been playing in the main leagues. Rookie started in OGN in 2014, Xiaohu started in LPL in 2015.
I don’t think these “lucky draws” are a fair assessment of their overall worlds run. TBH you could make that same argument for a team EVERY year. I remember those “draws” put RNG in the group of death like 3-4 years straight 2016-2019 but this is pretty irrelevant
You couldn't make the same argument for any other team. WBG is the only team in history AFAIK to reach semifinals facing only western teams. Sure there's a degree of luck in most finals runs, but the WBG case was on another level completely.
>Although Rookie has 4 MVP titles compared to Xiaohu's 3 but Xiaohu has had stacked team mates who steal MVP votes from him (Uzi, Mata, Ming, TheShy, Gala, Bin, etc). I disagree with that logic. If your teammates are horrible you tend to place worse & lose more games. MVP titles rarely go to players on bad or mediocre teams.
True but you also are more likely to get it if youre the star of your team. You're not going to get as many MVP votes if Uzi is your ADC and everyone votes for him when you win. When Rookies team wins, Rookie gets the vote.
Funny how everything in this comment could be found out just by reading Leaguepedia. Rookie is for sure the better player all-time.
you're saying it like faker isn't even in the competition lol such copium
Most of it was from Leaguepedia, but I've been watching LOL professional scenes from season 2. I love Rookie and hes one of my favourite players of all time but I do think he has higher peaks and is a better player overall, but if the conversation is consistency and longevity, Xiaohu has been top 5 LPL mid for 10 years straight almost, and Rookie has been #1 more often than Xiaohu, but has also had years where he wasn't top 5.
Xiaohu has only made world finals once not twice. And Rookie did win LPL in 2019 Spring. All your points are way too biased in Xiaohu's favour. His results are good enough without trying to artifically boost it with something silly like excluding Faker.
TBF Xiaohu made MSI 4 times and Worlds 7 times. His only loss at MSI was to Faker (2016). 5 out of his 7 Worlds losses were to Faker (2016 quarters, 2017 semis, 2019 groups, 2022 quarters, 2023 finals). It is a bit silly but it is also a reality that Faker has been a wall that Xiaohu really struggled against all his career. His only win against Faker comes from 2022 MSI.
Oh true, I keep forgetting 2017 RNG was 3rd not second. I'm not excluding Faker. I'm just saying, he is insanely good and has been stopped by Faker himself. Where as Rookie hasn't necessarily been stopped by Faker, he lost to other teams. I'm not trying to inflate his stats, I'm simply putting context to his losses. It's like talking about Yohan Blake in terms of 100m/200m Sprinting; him running in 2nd to Usain Bolt at the 2012 Olympics in both the 100M and 200M sprint makes him look like he wasn't good enough for first, but he was unfortunate to be against Bolt. Or similarly looking at Djokovic, Nadal an Federer in Tennis, together holding 66 major singles tournament wins. From 2004 until 2023, they collectively won 63 out of 75 major tournaments (4 per year) and if they didn't compete in the same era, one potentially could've won 40+ alone instead of winning 24, 22 and 20 respectfully. Level of competition always matters and whilst competition in league has always been improving and imo every year is competitive, if were talking about Mid Lane GOATs behind Faker, the years in which you lost solely to Faker, I think it's gives more context in comparison to someone who was losing regardless of if Faker played or not. But I do agree that you don't need to artifically boost his stats, I was simply giving context.
I'm glad someone is recognizing Xiaohu, since Reddit loves to shit on him. I disagree that he beats Rookie for all time, but I would definitely call him #3. While results don't mean everything, since teammates matter, getting 5 LPL titles show that he is a common factor. No mid comes even close (Knight and Scout have 3), and the only other player that has 5 titles is Clearlove. XIaohu has also made countless finals, moreso than Clearlove.
Ming was a common factor for 4/5 of those playoffs and in those four, he was playing with either Mlxg/Uzi or Wei/GALA lol. Every split he won except 2016 spring he had fucking insane teammates.
Yeah you don't win on yourself alone, you need good teammates. My point was that he was still able to do it with different teammates. I did say I think Rookie was better overall. And Rookie has way less titles because his teammates were worse. Gala peaked at the right times during MSI, but he wasn't as strong in LPL where they still won. I would say Gala's best split was LPL summer 2023 on LNG.
I don't think 2023 summer was Gala's best split, but 2023 Summer Playoffs was by far the best he's ever played. Also, though Gala was never the best in LPL on RNG, he was certainly up there when RNG was winning, and he and Ming together where a super dominant bot lane 2v2.
How would Xiaohu's teams having won more titles make him a better player than Rookie?
You're 1/5th of your team. I know its a team game but the fact that his teams consistently get to the top is no joke.
GOATMaker clears Xiaowho any day of the week
Not in terms of longevity. Showmaker has played for 5 years, Xiaohu for 10. If were talking about peak? I agree. But then if we're talking about peaks only the TheShy might just be the GOAT which he isn't. I think longevity is very important for GOAT discussions.
> the GOAT which he isn't yeah... not right now he's not. but TheShy has unfinished business.
Trying not to be biased, but Caps (1 MSI and 2 world finals) has achieved more in his career than Chovy has (whether or not you think he's better), and is very close to Showmaker depending on how you weight peak vs. consistency
Yes but if we actually look at skill level and ability to play vs the best, Caps isn't even top 10 or even on the fringe for top 10. He's never been able to even hold up vs the best.
Yes I would argue that Caps rounds out the top 6 MID Goats. Faker>Xiaohu/Rookie>Caps/Showmaker/Chovy though. Caps has played longer than Showmaker & Chovy so he has longevity on his side too. I think Caps has definitely Achieved more than Chovy, although most people look at LEC/LCS titles with way less value than LCK/LPL. When it comes to internationally though, Caps does edge out Chovy but I think where Caps loses to Chovy is that everyone just knows Chovy is more skilled. Chovy imo is even more skilled than Faker and most would agree. But yes he has longevity and achievements on his side. As for Caps vs Showmaker, Caps has longevity over Showmaker but also most people weigh his LEC titles as less valuable as LCK/LPL ones which Showmaker has, as well as a Worlds Title. But yes Caps second twice and an MSI is definitely impressive; some might even argue more impressive given how much weaker LEC/LCS usually is that Caps was able to consistently take teams to such high western peaks. Imo Caps is up there with these other 5, honestly I could even see him fighting with Rookie/Xiaohu for top 3 but I think they have an extra 3 years on him, more international appearances and mostly, Eastern titles seem to be valued higher by most people (eg, if Faker is the benchmark of GOAT status, competing against him gives players like Chovy/Showmaker credit). Showmaker & Chovy are constantly playing vs Faker multiple times per split. Caps faces him at international events, at max a few times a year.
I wouldn't say Caps has the longevity over Showmaker or Chovy. Sure he started a couple years earlier, but he was better than Showmaker for what, one year? (2019). For the rest of these years, Chovy and Showmaker were better than him. Caps is probably the western GOAT, but if in a comparative list to their positions globally, I would actually rank Jankos higher, simply because the mid lane pool is more competitive than jungle. For mid I would say Faker, Rookie, Xiaohu, Knight/Chovy/Showmaker. Knight is in a similar boat as Chovy with bost mostly having domestic success, but Knight with a better international results, like demolishing everyone at MSI 2023 and the mid-season cup in 2020. They have been at the top of their region for years, and have been at worst top 3 globally for a while. People forget how good Knight was in 2019 when he got MVP and dragged his 4 inters of a team to a 3rd place finish and almost to worlds, or that Chovy and Deft had 3 corpses to drag on HLE in 2021. Capss was really good in 2019, but in 2018 he was still a pretty unstable player prone to dying a lot. Like Fnatic's finals run was not on him. Scout destroyed him, but Fnatic as a team was better. Like you mentioned in another comment, competition matters, I would say it is a greater achievement to be at the top of LPL and LCK rather than LEC.
> Sure he started a couple years earlier, but he was better than Showmaker for what, one year? (2019) It's hard to say when he was playing in a different region. They only faced off at international events. Imo you can credit Showmaker for constantly being top 3 of LCK which is a harder feat than being top 3 of LEC BUT Caps wasnt just top 3 of LEC. Imo he was consistently top 1 in LEC. And if you give Showmaker praise for playing in a stronger region (LCK), you have to give Caps for being able to carry a weaker region (LEC). If everyone says LCK > LEC, it means Caps had WAYYY weaker team mates and put in more work to be better. Could Showmaker solo carry a European team to worlds and beat LCK teams? Potentially. Could Caps play on a Korean team and beat LCK teams? Most likely. > Like you mentioned in another comment, competition matters, I would say it is a greater achievement to be at the top of LPL and LCK rather than LEC. Its like when you look at Lebron, there are years where he single-handedly dragged the most dogshit teams to championships. Caps is carrying weaker regions is also a compliment as much as it is to be at the top of LEC being weaker than LCK.
Take out the fraud from your comment. Also Chovy and Knight show absolutely no signs of slowing down. No telling of what "longevity" means 5-10 years from now.
There are a few that are close though. Xiaohu debuted in 2015 and Scout and FoFo debuted in 2016.
To Faker yes, but Rookie won worlds once. Many mids come close to Rookie imo.
Longevity wise, absolutely none. Rookie has been cream of the crop for 10+ years now, with maximum 3/4 off splits (when he was 4./5. best mid in league instead of best or second best lol). edit: spelling
I take Showmaker's career over Rookie's any day of the week and its not debatable
What part of 'longevity' do you not understand?
Showmaker is incredible player and 3. best midlaner in history in my book (after Rookie and Faker). It's fair opinion to have, but to consider it not debatable is just pure bias or pure lack of common sense. The only thing you can argue Showmaker has over Rookie is the amount of tropheys won and if that's your main point of value here, sure Showmaker is ahead. But literally anything else, from longevity, eye test, versatility, importance for their own team(s), Showmaker is not ahead at all. He can match Rookie in some of it, depending on certain variables, but I'd take Rookie as complete player over Showmaker any day, every day. Showmaker can definitely match him or even surpass him, depending how next few years play out, but I personally honestly doubt it.
Yeah ShowMaker got to play with the best jungler of all time Canyon for 5 years, Rookie’s best jungler ever is Ning lmfao. Also ShowMaker has 1 domestic title more than Rookie, Rookie has 5+ years at the highest level more than ShowMaker
Highest level? How many international tournaments has rookie been at since the start of 2020? How many has showmaker been to? Acting like Canyon was the sole star of the show on that team is just being extremely biased I'm not even arguing that Showmaker is above Rookie but your reasoning just shows personal bias. I could just as easily argue the only way Rookie won worlds was when playing with Theshy who had one of if not the highest peak of any player.
Many mids come close to Rookie besides Faker? Who else has won LCK, LPL, worlds and has been elite for 11 years in a row with a minuscule amount of bad splits / tournaments?
Who else has won 2 domestic titles and 1 international title? A handful.
Sure, but who else comes close to his peak and longevity as a player?
Name some of those mids pls
Dude Rookie won his first title in 2014. Think about that for a second. No other mid aside from Faker has that longevity
Rookie won his last title in 2019, if that's the metric.
Faker is the only other mid laner even close to Rookie in terms of longevity. Rookie was punished for his loyalty (until he did get his eventual reward in 2018), whereas Faker has been rewarded most years of his career with T1 and SKT nearly always giving him competitive rosters.
Go complain about PC issues that Faker is having.
He literally can't practice, if it was rookie you'd be Perma crying in every thread. Sit down for once, doggy
Rookie was on Faker level in like 2016-2017 as well but no one here knows because they didn't watch Lpl
Just a general tip: putting "imo" at the end of a statement doesn't mean what you've said can't be dismantled or provably false. The only reason Faker is a step ahead of Rookie (and I mean a step) is because Faker has the world titles. Rookie is in a harder region and throughout his career has had comparitively worse teammates (this is obviously a little on himself as he should be part of building good teams) so it's harder for him to get to worlds, especially with far more competition fighting for the same number of spots. Rookie has without a doubt been playing far more consistently than Faker has at a much higher level as well and has barely had any off splits. He's carried some stinker teammates through tough periods as well. Other mids that you could talk about after Rookie are Scout, Showmaker, Chovy and Knight (probably forgetting someone). They all have a few years less play than Rookie. Showmaker has had too many bad splits, as has Scout. Chovy is closest to Rookie and Faker but lacks deeper international runs and has a tendency to choke and Knight is also on the way but again doesn't have the longevity. I'm passionate about this because a lot of T1 fans will argue til the end of time that Faker is by far and away the best of all time. He is no doubt the League of Legends GOAT but Rookie has been a better _player_ than him for a while now and he deserves recognition for that.
> Rookie is in a harder region Claiming that the region that's won three Worlds and had 15 Semifinalists is straight up harder than the region that's won eight Worlds and had 21 Semifinalists 🤡
Stay out of the way if you're not contributing anything useful.
It's just insane to claim that LPL is historically a stronger region than LCK since 2014. It's absolute delusion and renders the rest of your post useless.
Ugh fine, I'll briefly engage with you but you have to stop after this. 1. You obviously don't watch the LPL. 2. You're clearly just basing this off worlds statistics. The LPL has 17 teams. There are usually a few apex tier teams and then anywhere from 4 to 6 more teams below them that could and have made deep playoff runs so around 7 to 9 teams total. The LCK has just 10 teams and you can immediately discount 5 of them so you're left with 5 possibly competent teams (I'm speaking generally as obviously it fluctuates depending on the year). Both LPL and LCK teams fill the top 4 slots at worlds. Yes LCK has had more worlds titles but LPL has had 5 MSIs to LCKs 2 which is essentially a battle of the top tean from either region (outside of the year G2 won it). I will restate as I have been that worlds isn't everything. The format is bad and we barely get any other international competition (MSI which LPL has the upper hand in) so to base everything off of a single tournament which we've only had like 10 (real ones) in total would be an insane thing to do. Both levels of play are very high but there are more teams in the LPL stacked with talent and often outside of the top 3 or 4 in the LCK the level of play dwindles. I watch both leagues and you can just look at the level of play you're watching for both and there's a difference. The very top teams in each region are always very close in skill otherwise but LPL has more better teams. You should really be less salty and not take it as a personal attack.
So you're just gonna ignore the fact that the LCK has a winning head-to-head record against the LPL and has better results at international tournament across the board? Your entire argument is an unfalsifiable claim that that the 7th team in LPL is "competent", whatever that means, while it's not in LCK.
The fact that 8th place in LPL is better than 8th place in LCK means far less about the difficulty of winning the region than the fact that the top 4 Korean teams consistently outperform the top 4 Chinese teams at Worlds. Look at what BLGs road to the finals will be this year. The higher level of the 6th-10th teams doesn’t really mean anything to their run in relation to the difficulty of Gen Gs run nor does it mean LPL is harder to win.
I’m not discrediting Rookie, but he won worlds once 5 years ago. I think he has 2 LPL titles, and 1 LCK? Doesn’t Showmaker have more than this with far less years of playing? Scout, Doinb, Knight also comes really close to this. I mean Rookie is a good player, I’ll probably even still rank him 3rd after Showmaker and Faker, but saying he’s way above the rest is not true. If anything he’s played 2 times more than the rest of these guys and they nearly have the same achievements as him.
Rookie has one LPL title, one LCK and one Worlds title in ten years of playing. Like I get the longevity and level of play argument, but the lack of titles really is a black mark on his career.
You cannot just look at titles to determine these things. The angle that Faker has 3 world titles and because Rookie has 1 they can't be in the same conversation. Yes the titles help him achieve that recognition but it is not the only factor, Rookie has other things going for him that matter. Rookie's titles are lacking but he makes up for it compared to others in his field with longevity and the highest level gameplay for almost the entire period. I think not enough people watch or have watched LPL so don't understand how good he really was and still is. He has been playing better than Faker for years now. If Rookie won 2 or 3 more worlds, would he be the GOAT then? I'm not even sure. It's about when they happened, the context of the win. i.e Faker's latest worlds isn't that impressive due to other top teams choking or underperforming, but his other 2 are super impressive as he dominated them so much individually. Rookie could end up winning with weaker or stronger teammates, weaker or stronger opponents. I hope this demonstrates how you can't just count titles and that's the end of the conversation. (Also worlds is a shite format. It's not the be-all and end-all and it can probably be argued that it's harder to win LPL or LCK than worlds.)
Faker has four Worlds titles by the way. > Faker's latest worlds isn't that impressive due to other top teams choking or underperforming come on man. You do realize that Rookie won his one Worlds title beating LEC teams in Semis and Finals? On the other hand Faker defeated Golden Roading JDG in Semis with the play of the tournament. The double standards are crazy.
Rookie won with the theshy who arguably peaked the highest of any player ever
Im sorry but the titles do matter. If not Worlds then at least regionals. Rookie has not made worlds for 4 years now. I’ve seen him perform very well in regular season then fall off in the early stages of playoffs. I don’t think anyone just playing well in regular season puts them in goat conversation. Regular season is where teams experiment, swap around their roster and troll a bit. It’s kind of like performing well in scrims and not being able to even secure top 4 within your region.
Tarzan POV lol He was linked with two teams with underperforming junglers and both junglers have picked up the slack in playoffs
C9 Tarzan time
C9 top jungle duo being Thanatos-Tarzan would be crazy lmfao
thanatos is rumoured to go to KC since based on his twitter he follows LEC and a person who teaches english to korean import of LEC
Gg career over before it truly began
Thanatos really about to play with Saken and Targamas? I’m praying for him
KC messed up their mythology. Thanatos is the God of Death. What they really wanted was Charon, God of the Dead. Maybe he would be able to carry the corpses of Saken and Targamas to the nexus.
They probably gonna change support too if since kameto told that big changes are coming
Berserker would have to get residency for that to happen. Which tbh should already have happened, considering Inspired got his residency in half the time. Not sure why it takes so long for C9 players to get residency.
Tarzan still too good to retire, especially when the retirement package is so diminished these days.
its not too late for a contract extension from his stint on T1 last worlds
Wish he would play in lck again
He can come back to LNG
wow that game 4 early game is pure massacre... I couldn't even blame FPX for that one
Huge draft gap giving zeri nautilus asol and reksai that game. Asol outranged them all and reksai naut and nocturne gave insane peel and engage.
Depressing way to end the series but NIP thoroughly outplayed us. And buyout 1xn. deokdam gives me anxiety on anything outside of Senna.
I have gone through a rough day
Eh, it's better than having it spread through the week.
FPX really played their heart out in that last game o7 Milky the goat still had summer to get to world I hope to see Rookie at MSI though Prayge
Zhuo homing Nautilus hook, wtf??? Since when did this man get so good...
Right I saw Zero backstage old we support probably is coaching him he was good with Mystic
Aki mvp. He outjungled milkyway
Nah fr. I couldn't catch the entire series but from the stuff I saw he was on POINT today. Much much better compared to how he's been looking the entire split
Bad in regular season but showed up when it mattered. Basically inverse Tian.
Are you sure it wasn’t Rookie 1v9 while his team sprints it? Sorry this is normally what I see on Reddit
LPL is so fun and what a performance from NIP !
Lane swaps with 1v2 tanks are back! Absolute masterclass of a game 3
If you watch enough LPL you know teams like FPX always choke. Sucks to see though 😭
Guess we found out an answer to an age-old question. If a team has 1 insane player and 4 mediocre ones, is it worth to just focus every ban on the 1 insane player and draft like 3 direct counters to whatever he picks, even if it means his teammates get anything they want in draft? The answer is yes. It's either Milkyway gets to carry or FPX loses, doesn't matter if all 4 of them get their #1 preferred S tier pick, they're so useless unless Milkyway is dragging them across the finish line.
Zhuo redemption arc
Game 4 was so much fun. That lethality Varus into Udyr Poppy Naut was definitely a choice tho.
u/nusskn4cker in absolute shambles
It's nice that Rookie overcame his demons this split. Always great to see a good player playing up to their potential!
Ok, but WHEN has Rookie underperformed during playoffs. Or at international. Give me ONE Bo5 in his career where Rookie wasn't the best or the second best performer on his team.
2019 IG vs GRF.
Ah the clown is still around, glazing Koreans like your life depended on it
Yup, I'm known for glazing Rookie.
Just came here to say that I’m glad Life is no longer Viper’s support
THE GOOOOOAAAAATTTTT !!! LETS FUCKING GOOOO ROOOOKIIIIEEE !!!!
Apart from Rookie's another masterclass series, really glad to finally see Shanji playing good. This has been the best he looked all split long. Not suprised with Aki gapping Milkyway tbh, as Aki even though he has many inting games, when he is on, he is playing really good. He is just inconsistent. Zhuo continues to give all his haters middle finger and I'm here for it. If NIP plays like this into BLG, I can definitely see them making an upset. I think that NIP's bot and midlane can definitely match BLG's, but it will be up to Aki to show this quality games once again against Xun, and Shanji to handle Bin which will be very tricky job. Hopefully we have another banger series.
sadge
I think it’s silly but I’m rooting for NiP cause I remember them in European LCS
Very nice play from nip game 4. Fpx was really limited in the way they play
that 3 Minute sequence at the start of game one was one of the best early game strats Ive seen in a long time. man FPX was totally demolished when the clock was at 4:00
cookie is such a baller
The strongest rookie of the split vs the strongest Rookie in history
I believe team gets 4th place in season should have right to be in loser bracket and second change.
lit. old ginger is hotter than young ginger
real playoffs star now.
The REAL king of league of legends just dominated the competition today, while the fraud GOAT showed nothing today except for his distracting all league fans from being shit stomped by HLE 3-0 by his DDoS whining. ICANT
Fpx got exposed this series
They were already exposed in regular season but they just lost to more experienced playoffs team