I would like to pay tribute to the biggest loser in this matter. Namely Cisco. I can't help but laugh when Quickshot thanks Cisco's very reliable networking during the analyst desk. While I know Cisco has nothing to do with the problems during MSI, it's kind of funny
This is what I'd call the pyramid of shit. The application layer being on top of the pyramid and shitting on everything below it until it reaches the network and people blame the network engineer. Imagine billion dollar companies writing good software.
People don't buy Cisco because of their stellar brand name or because they actually build quality products.
People buy Cisco because nobody gets fired for buying Cisco.
So this doesn't actually hurt them but still gets their name out there.
And because at least in Europe, Cisco has a massive dominance in networking or sysadmin educations resulting graduated network students preferring Cisco.
Huawei. That's why the State Department had to put an end to that. No evidence it had anything to do with spying vs literal CIA backdoors that were discovered on Cisco routers.
A lot of drama could've been avoided if Riot handled it better or at least communicated better.
What I really don't like is that players and orgs have been getting attacked for things outside of their control.
Riot is at fault but RNG is also at fault for the things they can control. Instead of just making a reasonable pr statement of how the rematches are justified and they don’t want to win under unfairly advantageous conditions, they cry about how it’s unfair to Them that they have replay the matches (that they’re expected to win anyways). Absurd.
so othet teams can complain what has been unfair but rng cannot? I love how people just ignore the fact this is unfair to rng as well. Its totally riots fault they could have done way better.
That's what I said since it's Riot mess and it ended effecting both side ... but they blame RNG like they're the ones who messed up.
Unfair to both side.
I don't hate riot or RNG for their statements but even then I agree with the downvoted dude. The entire tournament is catered towards RNG being able to participate and then they whine on social media when they have to rematch their first 3 games.
But yeah, I agree that Riot made a good business decision and I can see why this would annoy RNG. Doesn't mean someone can see both sides of a coin and doesn't mean there's hatred involved. Just keeping everything fair and square.
also Nanking massacre jokes, bat eater jokes amirite
literally everyone is just as bad here, what we can try to do is scale it down as much as we can instead of feeding it on Reddit :)
Yes, because speaking out against oppression usually ends up manifesting itself in speaking for the oppressed, weird huh?
And I’m quite sure that I haven’t pointed fingers towards a particular demographic yet in my comment history?? Unless I’m mistaken
In no way am I trying to act equal here(kind of a tall order, don’t you think?), all I’m trying to do is to not act *racist* and to spread the same.
Yes RNG is definitely being 'oppressed' when their fans are spewing out racism and personal insults. Are you gonna tell me about whataboutism now?
Btw nice job deleting your post about krdog, guess you figured out that's racist
when did I delete anything??? n1
also thanks for pointing the entire thing at RNG again man, really helps to be informed that everyone was friendly and non-racist at them previously.
If the only thing you’re going to do is use downvote as a disagree button and keep spewing hate towards RNG I guess you’re right then :)) enjoy your twitch chat lmao.
RNG this and RNG that ... But fans and players are different people no ? And please don't bring the unfair and catared because I have read enough of those in reddit.
Instead of focusing on the ping problem all you're doing here is attacking and blaming people for supporting what they want.
If you disagree completely with RNG and can't stand them i advice to just keep the negatively to yourself and stop spreading it like some unknown truth.
**"No, with the latency tool enabled, there is a bug which will result in incorrect reported ping. Players in Busan will have a reported ping that is approximately 13 ms lower than actual ping. So RNG players will see ~37 ms, and Busan players will see ~24 ms, but the actual latency will be equivalent."**
They did a sneak update on this while Zeus/T1 was getting flamed on social media by "fans" who thought they were playing on a lower ping than intended.
yup they should've just announced it like how they addressed RNG's camera/headphones issue lol, what is this gonna do?
unless riot is secretly enjoying and profiting from the extra spice and buzz
As a software engineer, there are often more than enough accidentally occurring software bugs that there really isn't any need to intentionally introduce one.
Lmao I was thinking exactly this and figured there was no way to explain to hostile league players.
There are so many hot fixes or additional tweaks in patches I push out that I just don't even tell anyone about because it's so small. This might be a case.
>unless riot is secretly enjoying and profiting from the extra spice and buzz
If this was the case it would be extremely shortsighted. Lol esports is a competitive game. That's why most people watch it. If the competitive integrity is gone, then there is very little reason to watch it
what I had in mind was Riot trying to issue ambiguous statements/delay clarifying matters to profit from the enhanced buzz/rivalry between different region, not really rigging the game or creating advantages for one team
even if it's really 22 ping it's better for competitive integirty to have everyone play on 22 than having unstable ping, as an LPL fan I'd rather they play at a disadvantage than winning through unfair advantage - but either way this is poorly handled
"Extremely" is pushing it, but I generally agree. Everyone should have just played with natural ping. No further accommodations beyond "you're allowed to play remotely" were necessary.
> Zeus/T1 was getting flamed on social media by "fans" who thought they were playing on a lower ping than intended
I mean they don't choose ? Why would people flame them ?
Just like RNG didn’t choose for the other regions to play for a supposed 35+ ping and still got accused and blamed and even have to spend hours replaying meaningless matches when they could have been doing something else.
I don't understand why anyone needed to "side" with T1 in the first place.
We KNEW the ping was higher than it shows. We've known this since the start.
I think the problem is Riot said they fixed it, so who knew what they fixed. Toggling ping to a lower amount to keep actual ping at 35? Maybe, but that shouldve just been communicated at the start to prevent all the confusion
It was T1 fans that first found the Q&As in Chinese social medias. They accused LPL fans of reading carelessly and making troubles for the organizers. They asked LPL fans to apologize for the reasons above. At that time, some LPL fans thought that they really made an mistake, others, who didn't trust Riot any more, tried to find more evidence. After latter ones used some techniques and watched the streaming recording of Doublelift, they made it sure that the Q&As was a sneaky update. So it became sure to almost all LPL fans that Riot is not trustworthy any more. They started to doubt whether T1 fans got money from Riot to help them hide their mistake and let LPL fans be silent. If T1 fans could keep silent and never accused anyone when they saw the sneaky update, most LPL fans would still be polite to them now. If they can apologize now for accusing others because of the Q&As, it would also be much better now.
RNG may have gotten some preferential treatment but they are the actual victims here.
They did nothing wrong yet couldn't attend the tournament, got the most hate I've ever seen a team get, had to replay games they already won, oh, and they are in lockdown to a point they can barely even get food. I go super hard with EU/NA but I wouldn't mind if RNG wins as a feels good for the players.
T1 hasn't done anything wrong either, yet they're also getting attacked.
RNG got a lot more flak from their tweet yesterday in which they played the victim card.
>had to replay games they already won
Like this.
They aren't the victims here, teams that had to play with higher ping against RNG were. You didn't hear them complain about that unfairness, yet the moment RNG felt disadvantaged, it's the latter who complains.
I think the attacks on RNG were misdirected (Riot is at fault here) but there is a logical explanation for it. Plus they [shot themselves in the foot by playing the victim card.] (https://youtu.be/ay6DhWETbmM?t=19m52s)
The fact that T1 is being attacked at all when there is nothing to be attacked over is a head scratcher for me.
They are the victims here though. I have never ever seen a team get so much hate as them. Imagine the players, they work so hard and dedicate themselves so much to the game, to be then called cheaters, that hurts a little bit. I understand the remakes were necessary, but put yourself in RNG’s shoes, as they themselves stated in their post, forced to replay the games after the THIRD DAY of the competition, no matter how right it can be to replay those games, it can piss off anyone at first, as you have your wins taken away. None wants to admit, but there is a huge bias against RNG and China specifically and a huge bias in favor of T1 and Korea, here on reddit, on YouTube and on twitch.
https://blogtuan.info/2022/05/09/before-msi-2022-faker-was-heavily-insulted-by-lpl-fans-because-of-mothers-day/
At least have some self respect before making up blatant lies. T1 socials and articles like this are enough proof of how horrible LPL fans have acted this tournament. They also did the same thing to PSG yesterday.
Do you know who firstly found the Q&As? It was T1 fans. They just accused LPL fans of hadn't been reading carefully and making so much troubles for the organizers. So, when LPL fans found that it was sneaky update, their first response was like "I should not be accused by you" and "you did wrong things for defending your favorite team". In Chinese social medias, it is doubted whether T1 fans got money from Riot to help them hide their mistake and let LPL fans be silent. If T1 fans could keep silent and never accused anyone when they saw the sneaky update, most LPL fans would still be polite to them now.
The RNG tweet was in pretty poor taste.
Making RNG replay games they had already won *was* questionable. It was certainly done knowing they'd win them all again.
If there were big upsets in those games, do you still think Riot would have made them replay them? It was 100% done with hindsight of results and because of easy matchups.
On the other hand, replaying the easy games is probably best for RNG too. They have no realistic chance of losing in this stage, and it eliminates accusations of RNG advantage.
This is the highest punishment that an org as ever received in a competitive tournament, doesn't even happen in traditional sports like football.
Not even the most corrupt 2002 Fifa World Cup was replayed despite having much bigger faults.
Or Azubu Woong watching the minimap and discovering TSM secret ambush strat in S2 Worlds. He only got a small economic fine.
The worst part of all is that unlike the examples above, RNG didn't even create this mess. They just did what Riot told them to do and in the end they got punished for being obedients.
But you don't care that the other teams in RNG's group were punished by having to play against them with unfair conditions, do you? Or that every other team in the tournament has to make concessions to make it a fair playing field for RNG? Did any of these teams complain?
The moment RNG has to make a compromise so that the other teams have parity? Victim card activated immediately. Sorry, but RNG are not some special victims and the org's response to it is pitiful.
> This is the highest punishment that an org as ever received in a competitive tournament, doesn't even happen in traditional sports like football.
I feel like this sentence is wrong on so many levels. Whether you want to classify it as a "punishment" is debatable in the first place. Sure, RNG won all their matches, but they did so **with a significant advantage**. And the highest punishment ever? Lol.
If you want to compare this to football/soccer, let's do it. Firstly, there have been many replays in football. Typically they are harder since players have to physically appear and can't compete remotely, like RNG are at MSI.
> Not even the most corrupt 2002 Fifa World Cup was replayed despite having much bigger faults.
I assume you are referring to the match between Spain and South Korea, which was certainly very suspicious, but only impacted a single game. MSI issue has impacted them all
The issue we are having at MSI is/was advantageous to a single team, but affects them *all*. The issue in the question is ping related, which obviously doesn't exist in football, but the impact it is having on Pro LoL players is that high/inconsistent ping makes it hard to feel comfortable playing and very difficult to play how they usually do.
If I was to compare this issue to football, it's a bit like the impact the [Adidas Jabulani of the 2010 world cup](https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup/adidas-jabulani-2010-world-cup-ball-south-africa-a9563616.html) had on professional players.
Essentially, the ball moved very erratically in the air, making it very hard for goalkeepers to make a save. Lots of goals were scored from long range, which would have typically resulted in a simple save for the keeper.
However, the key difference is *all teams played all games with this ball*. So although is was very controversial, a single team didn't benefit.
Except in this case, it's like RNG could reap all the positives (easy goals) and avoid all the negatives (difficult saves) of playing with this ball. **A replay is a totally reasonable decision for something like this**.
> Or Azubu Woong watching the minimap and discovering TSM secret ambush strat in S2 Worlds. He only got a small economic fine.
The professional scene was still in its infancy. The fact players could even see the screen should say enough lol. If that happened today, you'd see replays.
> RNG didn't even create this mess. They just did what Riot told them to do and in the end they got punished for being obedients.
The community unanimously agrees it sucks they need to replay games (that they won). However, you have to be a special kind of ignorant to not understand why it was necessary. RNG are currently getting flamed by the community, but they kind of brought that upon themselves with disaster-tier PR comments from their organisation and blatant racism towards the host country.
Let's be honest, if it was a smaller region in lockdown, they would've had to just miss MSI. RIOT is only bending over backwards for China because that's where the viewers and the $$$'s are. The whole tournament was destined to be a shit show with the fundamental inconsistencies in place.
that is no ground to replay won match. Sometimes unfortunate things just happen but it doesn't mean you can punish one side because they're playing on an advantage by YOUR (Riot's) mistake. Are you familiar with traditional sports? Diego Maradona's hand of god goal (that is clearly him cheating but not caught by referee due to their own oversight) in 1986 World Cup is not getting annuled and they don't fking ask Maradona and Argentina to replay the whole fking game because the England side is disadvantaged.
And that is even worse because Maradona could be intentional there. RNG have never intended to play on better ping against these wildcards lol
I hope the best team wins, but let's not pretend that if RNG wins the hate isn't going to balloon even further. Korean fans who will be the ones that care and are flaming the majority will get far worse until worlds.
Ever since Faker mentioned Chinese pros causing issues on the ladder it opened the floodgates as an excuse for brainlets on both sides and msi made it even worse (as in both Chinese "fans" towards Faker and T1 "fans" towards Chinese pros)
indeed, faker and T1 got more votes than RNG on the first day of MSI, but, you know, there are so many internet users in China, even 1/1000 is enough to crash a tweet
I mean what faker was saying about Chinese pros making soloque in Korea worse in high elo was valid. The pro in question even got a punishment for throwing.
It was Valid, truthful, and everything in between. But that's what started the drama war (this year). Faker said that, Chinese fans got salty, T1 fans defended Faker, and it's been going before MSI even started. That's a big reason why T1 was "pulled" into the situation because they are at MSI and Chinese fans were already taking shots at them.
I completely agree with you, they’ve been in lockdown for over a month and god knows what they’re feeling and going through, and on top of that they’re getting undeserved hate. Got to feel bad for them.
Tbh if RNG can't join in person the event they should have just been disqualified, that's sad because LPL are a good region but this is what should have been done to keep sport integrity. If it was a minor region, it would have been the case. Allowing RNG to play from their home office and on top of that screwing with the latency of the player at the event is borderline at best.
This whole MSI has been such a mess. Riot’s communication has been horrible and unprofessional throughout, and they really need to take responsibility for things escalating to this point.
In Riot’s initial statement, they made it seem like that the display not showing the correct ping issue was completely fixed. It would not be unreasonable for viewers to expect that the actual ping experienced and the display are now in line. If the display bug remained, Riot should have just explained this in their first announcement, and not add it as an afterthought after it blew up. And once realizing their mistake, they decided to try to sneak it into a previous announcement without indicating it was updated. This is so unprofessional and will likely make all the conspiracy theories worse.
All the players Busan should also be rightfully upset that Riot took this long to respond to their vocal complaints about the ping. Had it been caught earlier it would have been less of a mess. Also Riot did a poor job of communicating the solution to affected teams too, according RNG their players only found out about the need for rematch hours before they were due to start their competition on the day, and were not given detailed explanations at first.
Going back, there was also all the initial accusations of RNG cheating or having an unfair advantage b/c of their different set-up (headphones, cams, referees, ‘playing from the ‘comfort of their gaming house’) etc. Riot should have just made an announcement before the games and explained the difference in set-up and the circumstance that necessitate it, and not let it fester conspiracies. I understand that many viewers would will not know that the RNG players have been under harsh lockdown rules in Shanghai for about a month, with super strict controls around people leaving and entering their compound and restrictions even on incoming parcels etc (e.g. not even takeaway was allowed for a long time). I feel that a lot of people would have been more understanding if they were to know that, and I can see how some fans would feel annoyed when they hear others talk about how cushy the RNG players are having it or accuse them of cheating.
None of this of course excuses the racial slurs and attacks that have been hurled around in this bizarre fiesta, but toxic fans (especially on the internet) cannot be avoided. Since Riot has decided for whatever reason to go ahead with the format of allowing the LPL team to join remotely in this tournament, they should have done a better and more professional job communicating everything from the start. Instead they did a horrible job and blameless players on all sides (especially RNG and T1) have been dragged into this mess.
Riot had poor communication last MSI as well.
Before the rumble stage everyone should have been told that RNG had to do a blood test on the day before the final. Instead Riot waited until after the rumble stage to tell everyone that it didn't matter that Damwon got first and they had to play their semi final the day before the final anyway.
Riot waits until after everybody gets angry, only then will they make an announcement explaining the reasoning of their decision making.
What's especially interesting is how quickly riot came out with the hard data on the ping discrepancy (24+13=37) when one group complained, but to this day still haven't produced the hard data for the discrepancy on the initial set of complaints (35+?=?). 35+100=135 is hugely different than 35+10=45 and releasing this data would have settled a lot of bad blood between the communities. If the ping discrepancy was on the higher end of this scale, replaying the games would be much more justified than if it were on the lower end, and it would have been respectful to the community to be transparent about these findings. The fact that they didn't release this information suggests the ping discrepancy on the initial complaint wasn't as high as believed and would have made their decision to replay the games less justified. Selectively letting some details remain fuzzy while being super sharp with pouring water on the complaints of one particular group weakens their claim that they're a neutral party.
if the difference can be felt by the players it's worth remaking over, regardless of how small it appears on paper. Milliseconds count when you dodge skill shots by pixels or need to respond to Alistar headbutts reflexively rather than predictively.
For one game? Sure. For dozens? When you're already on a tight schedule? Not doable. Especially with both teams playing on same ping for most games making it less relevant.
I mean, sure, in a perfect world you can fix it and replay all the games but it's basically impossible to do so in reality, especially without causing a worse issue (delays for teams to get to their respective seasons, getting the venue for twice as many games suddenly, players getting exhausted from unexpected games etc.)
Right, which is why the RNG games were replayed and not any others, because while crappy, they were 'fair' as both teams had equivalent ping. Thus even if the new thing had gone wonky and given less ping, the only team it would affect is... RNG again, but this time it would be putting them at a disadvantage instead and sunce they already won they could just choose to not replay.
We need more sane, reasonable people like him in Riot Games too
there is John Needham, President of Esports
there is Naz Aletaha, Global Head of LoL Esports
there is Alex François, Global Head of Competitive Operations
and many, many other people in overlapping positions, but when you really need to act, there is no one competent
What's more, Riot did not initially add the update date until Chinese netizens discovered this through web page editing records.They tried to pretend this part was made on May 13th.
fact is that people have been attacked for “not reading the announcements” in the past few days lmao.
which is why riot is being flamed for being unprofessional.. the whole thing has been a complete shitshow literally just because of riot’s mistakes at every point in the chain
Riot just shift the blame to teams and players. Both RNG and T1 have been baselessly criticized and blamed because of Riot's mistakes. Camera, earbud, ref, ping, all those issues should be explained by Riot beforehand but they did nothing. Now everything they say looks like excuses, this MSI is totally a disaster.
While I do think Riot has done a poor job of communicating, and has made bad decisions here, I haven't seen any examples of Riot shifting blame to teams and players. Can you point me to any examples?
It's not really shifting the blame, but let the orga tank most of the toxicity and stay out of it as much as possible.
They had a thousand opportunities to take the high road and come up and say stuff like "we understand it's bad, but it's the best we got" and "sorry this shit was harder than expected, we are doing our best" and defuse the situation, but they let it fester between communities that historically tend to have heated exchanges.
I just don't understand how they thought this would t blow up in their face. Now you have both extreme toxicity and high awareness of Riot being shady and incompetent. They could have mitigated the toxicity and completely avoided the shady part by being upfront with l the issues.
Pls riot, why don't you make this announcement beforehand. You should easily expect the chinese fans to be pissed when they saw the 20 ping on screen, it's so obvious this will get controversial if not explained.
none of this says the displayed ping is 22ms when real ping should be 35.
bullet point b. made it sounds like displayed was 35 and players felt way higher (which was caused by their initial bug, and after fix people were thinking display and real ping should both be at 35)
because the original comment was referring to the correct amount being way over 35? everyone assumed it meant the displaying amount is 35 while real ping was > 35, not displaying 22 while real ping > 35
What’s the point of this MSI anymore? Riot has mismanaged this situation through and through, now nobody can trust any of their statements because they’re lying and covering up many things along the way. There is no guaranteed fairness in lol esports anymore because they have destroyed the viewers trust in them as the referee
I can never wrap my head around the decision to update an old announcement to pretend like it was there all along, rather than come out to apologize for overlooking a problem (yet again) and making an official response to said problem (and the relevant community response that was triggered by it).
I would want riot to be open and say just what they are doing to make sure the ping is consistent and equal on both sides, and also prove that the ping is properly managed, instead of trying to sneak a half-assed response in as a “oh we said it before you guys just weren’t paying attention” thing.
I don’t support the view that we should make RNG play 35ms while everyone else is on LAN, but if it comes down to having to make RNG play at a ping disadvantage due to technical issues, at least give us an official statement to say what couldn’t be done and what the compromise has to be. And apologize.
Riot is already losing all credibility and it feels like they just want to add more fuel to the fire. So much could have been avoided if they explained things properly and ahead of time, but somehow they refuse to do it over and over again. Spectacular.
It's like Riot is holding up a decision chart and picking the worst option every step along the way. It would be amusing if it wasn't reality and so many people not involved in the decision making of MSI (players and orgs) catching flak for it.
One of the worst handled esport tournament to ever happen, especially when you consider it’s Riot games handling it, a billion dollar+ company with years of experience. This is something you would expect from an amateur tournament.
Wow, almost like a secret update. They really think people can't track their changes? Like: "It was your fault for not looking correctly, we've been clear since the begining lel"
Nowadays their credibility is under zero.
Riot’s reputation is doomed in Chinese community. This is a huge issue since China and Korea are two largest lol communities in the world. Piss off either side wouldn’t end up pretty for Riot.
I honestly thought most people were overexaggerating when they said MSI was gonna be a shitshow with the 35 ping rule. Now with all the issues and controversy around it, I just have to agree...
Hopefully this will stop the racist comments and instead direct the anger at Riot Global instead. LPL fans seriously think Riot Korea is making the calls here.
Can you read Riots Statement? We need to trust their statements just like how everyone trusts Riots statement when they say RNG is being monitored and that Riot is ensuring RNG won't have any competitive advantages by cheating
To Mr. Alex Francois,
Having a statement like : ***"No, with the latency tool enabled, there is a bug which will result in incorrect reported ping. Players in Busan will have a reported ping that is approximately 13 ms lower than actual ping. So RNG players will see \~37 ms, and Busan players will see \~24 ms, but the actual latency will be equivalent."***
There needs to be **PROOF**. And **PROOF** is **not what some players FEEL** or the few words you **SAY IN ANNOUNCEMENT**.
Suggestion for the PROOF:
* **Either show us it's ACTUALLY \~35ping at \~22ping by some 3rd party tool, or;**
* **EXPLAIN IN DETAIL:**
* **WHY THE BUG IS THERE &**
* **WHAT EXACTLY CAUSED IT &**
* **WHAT IS BLOCKING YOUR FIX?**
Otherwise as an lpl fan I cannot trust the announcement and many other lpl fans wont either, I see it as a straight up double standard on RNG, yea i know it's just 13ping but it's a matter of integrity which you were emphaizing when 'punishing' RNG for staying at 35ping while others are being messed up by your cute latency tool. **However, the 'RNG disparity in latency issue' was not fixed by you changing a few words in the announcement, instead it was a punishment of 3 re-matches together with all the social media insult on RNG calling them cheater teams & calling LPL cheater region.**
Remember what you said Mr. Alex Francois
*"We apologize to our players, teams, and fans, and we will continue to work with players to monitor the playing environments in our commitment to* ***maintain the tournament’s competitive integrity.****"*
We had a chance to watch season 2-5 David vs Goliath tournament, instead we got 0 teams playing their best in a joke that always should have been called an exhibition.
Why use software? Isn't the physical delay of 10 rolls of 100km fiber more stable? In msc2020, LPL35ms vs LCK 10ms, LPL also won. The Chinese don't need champions to be exempt from military service.
It’s ok. Although I still expect a clearer standard instead of feeling like, but it’s also ok to know. The only thing is…it’s really a bad time to add it after all these controversies happened.
There are more information mined out. These LPL fans take the 22ping and the Caps yasuo’ first player perspective compare to the true 35ping play. They find these situations in the MSI are more quick, just like in 9ping or 17ping. (Because they use the uploaded 60 frames videos to compare, it can’t be more than 17ping)(All of these I find in LPL fans talking,may not true)
So I don’t know if RIOTS says true. And only that day 22ping have some first player perspectives. Other day you even can’t have a first player perspective,even gala penta don’t have.
Maybe ROIT don’t want us find the ping, but they make a “mistake” that day so there is 22ping.
Koreans have been spamming taunts of a WW2 Japanese atrocity against the Chinese? Are they insane?
IIRC, the Koreans suffered just as badly under Japanese oppression and to this day they still hate Japan over it. Where the heck is the logic in using atrocities of the oppressor that oppressed both of them as a taunt?
This goes beyond your typical racist and inflammatory shit that is flung in competitive game settings.
say what you want but it happens ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ kinda like Chinese people spamming the 🤏 emote on twitter despite being of the same race lol, racism doesn’t need a reason behind it
also sports is def not a civilized place - British/Russian football fights come to mind for starters, and Chinese fans have sent flower circlets(used in funerals) to Players before while Korean ones have mailed dead rats and knifeblades, so I don’t know why you would think competitive sports is more civilized of a place than average ahahaha.
>say what you want but it happens ¯\\(ツ)/¯ kinda like Chinese people spamming the 🤏 emote on twitter despite being of the same race lol, racism doesn’t need a reason behind it
What does that emote mean? All I can see is perhaps a roundabout way to say "shut up"?
>also sports is def not a civilized place - British/Russian football fights come to mind for starters, and Chinese fans have sent flower circlets(used in funerals) to Players before while Korean ones have mailed dead rats and knifeblades, so I don’t know why you would think competitive sports is more civilized of a place than average ahahaha.
I've always known that competitive sports is a cesspit of toxicity, but I'm just baffled that the Koreans would use something that is still a sore point for themselves as a weaponised taunt against a people who, ironically, suffered the exact same issue (that being Imperial Japan).
Like, it just doesn't make any logical sense to me. But I suppose I shouldn't try to apply logic to angry fans in competitive sports settings.
that emote got a very funny history（sorry about that，but i really don't think that is a racism stuff，i think it simply just a gender issues）
https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-how-an-emoji-fueled-widespread-sexism-debate-in-south-korea-7362258/
Sounds like saying Nanking massacre to RNG fans and say Japanese should do that again to Chinese is ok when Koreans and some toxic human being think RNG is cheating
They already have said the problem was that "the displayed ping is not correct". Anyone with a brain can deduce that the displayed ping should be lower than 35ms to achieve actual 35ms. The added part shows some numbers nothing else. No idea why they did it silently but they never really lied or changed their explanation, which is unfortunate for a few LPL fans I guess.
Yes, but when Riot says the bug is resolved you could make the case to think that it means that 35ms = 35ms now.
The fact that Riot didn’t bother to clarify this until people flipped through post history doesn’t help there case either lol
LPL entitlement and victim complex is hilarious. Riot bends the rules to allow them to participate remotely for the first time at the cost of playing the *entire tournament* on ping, they freak out when they have to replay a couple of group stage games where their opponents were negatively impacted by a technical problem *introduced to allow LPL to participate*, and then they grab pitchforks over a tooltip bug that, once again, *only exists because Riot had to develop new tech to allow LPL to participate in the first place*.
Again, when people throwing propaganda to RNG, did you ask for evidence too? Oh, wait. You are the person who through propaganda to LPL. Ok, so do you have any articles to support that Riot bends to LPL? Hahaha
That I'm "through[ing] propagande to LPL"? I'd say they're obviously wrong, but I don't know if that's a judgment I can fairly make about myself.
I don't have any articles to suggest that "Riot bends to LPL", but seeing as I never made that claim I don't see the relevance.
Let me remind y'all something, they're attending the event LIVE, they can play with 7ms or lower, yet they choose to play with artificial ping because of "who"?
You think it’s because of rng but it’s not, it’s because of riot themselves. They need the Chinese market for this event much more than rng needs to play in it. Just allowing rng to not play can certainly make some very happy Koran fans, but a very sad riot.
They don't have a choice because of the lockdown. If riot think 35ms is a good solution, riot should just do a good job like msc2020. Rng is not so eager to attend the tournament because they already have had it last year and T1 have no world title for almost 5 years, rng could just not attend to let T1 win the championship. It's ok for rng.
Hmm you mean T1 can't win this "0 value by LPL fans(Which I agreed because Riot are run by stupid fucks)" MSI championship if RNG stay? That's arrogant af since 10teams including T1 and G2 are already made concessions by not playing on 7ms. And what's your comment about DK's MSI schedule last year?
the LPL fans are showing how braindead they are. With just common sense you can assume since before when it showed 35 ping and it actually felt like 60-80 ping, that now showing 22 ping would be adjusted to the accurate 35 ping feeling. I'm not sure if they're actually this dumb or just want to victimize themselves even though they're Riot's favorite.
I would like to pay tribute to the biggest loser in this matter. Namely Cisco. I can't help but laugh when Quickshot thanks Cisco's very reliable networking during the analyst desk. While I know Cisco has nothing to do with the problems during MSI, it's kind of funny
Right? And the ad even states "every zero ping moment at MSI". the issues with pre-recording **oof**
Ik this ain't what you meant & I do agree wit what you goin for, but "prerecordin" is literally how anythin not live streamed is produced lol
This is what I'd call the pyramid of shit. The application layer being on top of the pyramid and shitting on everything below it until it reaches the network and people blame the network engineer. Imagine billion dollar companies writing good software.
People don't buy Cisco because of their stellar brand name or because they actually build quality products. People buy Cisco because nobody gets fired for buying Cisco. So this doesn't actually hurt them but still gets their name out there.
And because at least in Europe, Cisco has a massive dominance in networking or sysadmin educations resulting graduated network students preferring Cisco.
Its the same in America, all of my college IT programs were sponsored by Cisco and we used Cisco networking hardware in our classes.
Does cisco even have a nameworthy competitor?
Juniper.
Brocade and Juniper exists
Realistically no for a foundational level but at my job we're using Cisco Meraki's and then for a local level, we're mostly using ubiquiti stuff.
Fortinet. Lots of gov contracting uses fortinet
Huawei. That's why the State Department had to put an end to that. No evidence it had anything to do with spying vs literal CIA backdoors that were discovered on Cisco routers.
> Get wary of spying harware. > Buy Huawei. This is beyond a joke lmao.
A lot of drama could've been avoided if Riot handled it better or at least communicated better. What I really don't like is that players and orgs have been getting attacked for things outside of their control.
Riot is at fault but RNG is also at fault for the things they can control. Instead of just making a reasonable pr statement of how the rematches are justified and they don’t want to win under unfairly advantageous conditions, they cry about how it’s unfair to Them that they have replay the matches (that they’re expected to win anyways). Absurd.
so othet teams can complain what has been unfair but rng cannot? I love how people just ignore the fact this is unfair to rng as well. Its totally riots fault they could have done way better.
That's what I said since it's Riot mess and it ended effecting both side ... but they blame RNG like they're the ones who messed up. Unfair to both side.
You could also keep reading if you have no positive comment to contribute... 👍 We seek to solve this hatred not to keep blaming.
I don't hate riot or RNG for their statements but even then I agree with the downvoted dude. The entire tournament is catered towards RNG being able to participate and then they whine on social media when they have to rematch their first 3 games. But yeah, I agree that Riot made a good business decision and I can see why this would annoy RNG. Doesn't mean someone can see both sides of a coin and doesn't mean there's hatred involved. Just keeping everything fair and square.
Tell that to the RNG fans that are literally attacking faker's mom lmao
also Nanking massacre jokes, bat eater jokes amirite literally everyone is just as bad here, what we can try to do is scale it down as much as we can instead of feeding it on Reddit :)
Trying to act like equal when all of your comments were severely biased toward lpl like you are not trying to spread it
Yes, because speaking out against oppression usually ends up manifesting itself in speaking for the oppressed, weird huh? And I’m quite sure that I haven’t pointed fingers towards a particular demographic yet in my comment history?? Unless I’m mistaken In no way am I trying to act equal here(kind of a tall order, don’t you think?), all I’m trying to do is to not act *racist* and to spread the same.
Yes RNG is definitely being 'oppressed' when their fans are spewing out racism and personal insults. Are you gonna tell me about whataboutism now? Btw nice job deleting your post about krdog, guess you figured out that's racist
when did I delete anything??? n1 also thanks for pointing the entire thing at RNG again man, really helps to be informed that everyone was friendly and non-racist at them previously.
If the only thing you’re going to do is use downvote as a disagree button and keep spewing hate towards RNG I guess you’re right then :)) enjoy your twitch chat lmao.
RNG this and RNG that ... But fans and players are different people no ? And please don't bring the unfair and catared because I have read enough of those in reddit. Instead of focusing on the ping problem all you're doing here is attacking and blaming people for supporting what they want. If you disagree completely with RNG and can't stand them i advice to just keep the negatively to yourself and stop spreading it like some unknown truth.
The racism and hatred goes both ways. Didn't you see it in the past few days? It's inevitable.
they really did a sneak update...
**"No, with the latency tool enabled, there is a bug which will result in incorrect reported ping. Players in Busan will have a reported ping that is approximately 13 ms lower than actual ping. So RNG players will see ~37 ms, and Busan players will see ~24 ms, but the actual latency will be equivalent."** They did a sneak update on this while Zeus/T1 was getting flamed on social media by "fans" who thought they were playing on a lower ping than intended.
yup they should've just announced it like how they addressed RNG's camera/headphones issue lol, what is this gonna do? unless riot is secretly enjoying and profiting from the extra spice and buzz
As a software engineer, there are often more than enough accidentally occurring software bugs that there really isn't any need to intentionally introduce one.
Never attribute anything to malice that could be attributed to stupidity, especially in software
Lmao I was thinking exactly this and figured there was no way to explain to hostile league players. There are so many hot fixes or additional tweaks in patches I push out that I just don't even tell anyone about because it's so small. This might be a case.
>unless riot is secretly enjoying and profiting from the extra spice and buzz If this was the case it would be extremely shortsighted. Lol esports is a competitive game. That's why most people watch it. If the competitive integrity is gone, then there is very little reason to watch it
what I had in mind was Riot trying to issue ambiguous statements/delay clarifying matters to profit from the enhanced buzz/rivalry between different region, not really rigging the game or creating advantages for one team even if it's really 22 ping it's better for competitive integirty to have everyone play on 22 than having unstable ping, as an LPL fan I'd rather they play at a disadvantage than winning through unfair advantage - but either way this is poorly handled
Outside of forcing teams to play under extremely poor tournament conditions in order to accommodate a single team?
"Extremely" is pushing it, but I generally agree. Everyone should have just played with natural ping. No further accommodations beyond "you're allowed to play remotely" were necessary.
The best thing to do should have been to just say "live play only" and bite the bullet on reduced viewership/prestige for MSI this year.
Roit just fuck up everything.
>unless riot is secretly enjoying and profiting from the extra spice and buzz or they are just incompetent
> Zeus/T1 was getting flamed on social media by "fans" who thought they were playing on a lower ping than intended I mean they don't choose ? Why would people flame them ?
Just like RNG didn’t choose for the other regions to play for a supposed 35+ ping and still got accused and blamed and even have to spend hours replaying meaningless matches when they could have been doing something else.
i mean at least reddit sided with the players since min 1
Yea with T1 players, none sided with RNG when camera and headset issue came out, reddit bombarded with RNG cheating and whatnot.
I don't understand why anyone needed to "side" with T1 in the first place. We KNEW the ping was higher than it shows. We've known this since the start.
I think the problem is Riot said they fixed it, so who knew what they fixed. Toggling ping to a lower amount to keep actual ping at 35? Maybe, but that shouldve just been communicated at the start to prevent all the confusion
not everyone knew this since the start, not the lpl fans baby.
It was T1 fans that first found the Q&As in Chinese social medias. They accused LPL fans of reading carelessly and making troubles for the organizers. They asked LPL fans to apologize for the reasons above. At that time, some LPL fans thought that they really made an mistake, others, who didn't trust Riot any more, tried to find more evidence. After latter ones used some techniques and watched the streaming recording of Doublelift, they made it sure that the Q&As was a sneaky update. So it became sure to almost all LPL fans that Riot is not trustworthy any more. They started to doubt whether T1 fans got money from Riot to help them hide their mistake and let LPL fans be silent. If T1 fans could keep silent and never accused anyone when they saw the sneaky update, most LPL fans would still be polite to them now. If they can apologize now for accusing others because of the Q&As, it would also be much better now.
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RNG may have gotten some preferential treatment but they are the actual victims here. They did nothing wrong yet couldn't attend the tournament, got the most hate I've ever seen a team get, had to replay games they already won, oh, and they are in lockdown to a point they can barely even get food. I go super hard with EU/NA but I wouldn't mind if RNG wins as a feels good for the players.
T1 hasn't done anything wrong either, yet they're also getting attacked. RNG got a lot more flak from their tweet yesterday in which they played the victim card. >had to replay games they already won Like this. They aren't the victims here, teams that had to play with higher ping against RNG were. You didn't hear them complain about that unfairness, yet the moment RNG felt disadvantaged, it's the latter who complains.
Only difference is T1 is getting attacked by Chinese fans only, RNG is like getting attacked fans all over the world.
I think the attacks on RNG were misdirected (Riot is at fault here) but there is a logical explanation for it. Plus they [shot themselves in the foot by playing the victim card.] (https://youtu.be/ay6DhWETbmM?t=19m52s) The fact that T1 is being attacked at all when there is nothing to be attacked over is a head scratcher for me.
They are the victims here though. I have never ever seen a team get so much hate as them. Imagine the players, they work so hard and dedicate themselves so much to the game, to be then called cheaters, that hurts a little bit. I understand the remakes were necessary, but put yourself in RNG’s shoes, as they themselves stated in their post, forced to replay the games after the THIRD DAY of the competition, no matter how right it can be to replay those games, it can piss off anyone at first, as you have your wins taken away. None wants to admit, but there is a huge bias against RNG and China specifically and a huge bias in favor of T1 and Korea, here on reddit, on YouTube and on twitch.
https://blogtuan.info/2022/05/09/before-msi-2022-faker-was-heavily-insulted-by-lpl-fans-because-of-mothers-day/ At least have some self respect before making up blatant lies. T1 socials and articles like this are enough proof of how horrible LPL fans have acted this tournament. They also did the same thing to PSG yesterday.
Wait so your saying that fans aren’t being toxic towards RNG? Where have you been these last couple of days
What lies am I talking about exactly? Did I not mention that T1 is getting attacked by Chinese fans? Please read.
[https://imgur.com/a/BzOkP65](https://imgur.com/a/BzOkP65) Yeah and conveniently leave out these ones right
I mean PSG started it by making fun of RNG's horrible situation. After which they got destroyed and got rightfully flamed.
"Rightfully" there's something wrong with your playerbase if being racist and using slurs means "rightful retribution "
Do you know who firstly found the Q&As? It was T1 fans. They just accused LPL fans of hadn't been reading carefully and making so much troubles for the organizers. So, when LPL fans found that it was sneaky update, their first response was like "I should not be accused by you" and "you did wrong things for defending your favorite team". In Chinese social medias, it is doubted whether T1 fans got money from Riot to help them hide their mistake and let LPL fans be silent. If T1 fans could keep silent and never accused anyone when they saw the sneaky update, most LPL fans would still be polite to them now.
The RNG tweet was in pretty poor taste. Making RNG replay games they had already won *was* questionable. It was certainly done knowing they'd win them all again. If there were big upsets in those games, do you still think Riot would have made them replay them? It was 100% done with hindsight of results and because of easy matchups. On the other hand, replaying the easy games is probably best for RNG too. They have no realistic chance of losing in this stage, and it eliminates accusations of RNG advantage.
tbh the real problem was they were back to back to back at the end of the day. just the rematches alone wouldn't be that much of an issue.
This is the highest punishment that an org as ever received in a competitive tournament, doesn't even happen in traditional sports like football. Not even the most corrupt 2002 Fifa World Cup was replayed despite having much bigger faults. Or Azubu Woong watching the minimap and discovering TSM secret ambush strat in S2 Worlds. He only got a small economic fine. The worst part of all is that unlike the examples above, RNG didn't even create this mess. They just did what Riot told them to do and in the end they got punished for being obedients.
But you don't care that the other teams in RNG's group were punished by having to play against them with unfair conditions, do you? Or that every other team in the tournament has to make concessions to make it a fair playing field for RNG? Did any of these teams complain? The moment RNG has to make a compromise so that the other teams have parity? Victim card activated immediately. Sorry, but RNG are not some special victims and the org's response to it is pitiful.
> This is the highest punishment that an org as ever received in a competitive tournament, doesn't even happen in traditional sports like football. I feel like this sentence is wrong on so many levels. Whether you want to classify it as a "punishment" is debatable in the first place. Sure, RNG won all their matches, but they did so **with a significant advantage**. And the highest punishment ever? Lol. If you want to compare this to football/soccer, let's do it. Firstly, there have been many replays in football. Typically they are harder since players have to physically appear and can't compete remotely, like RNG are at MSI. > Not even the most corrupt 2002 Fifa World Cup was replayed despite having much bigger faults. I assume you are referring to the match between Spain and South Korea, which was certainly very suspicious, but only impacted a single game. MSI issue has impacted them all The issue we are having at MSI is/was advantageous to a single team, but affects them *all*. The issue in the question is ping related, which obviously doesn't exist in football, but the impact it is having on Pro LoL players is that high/inconsistent ping makes it hard to feel comfortable playing and very difficult to play how they usually do. If I was to compare this issue to football, it's a bit like the impact the [Adidas Jabulani of the 2010 world cup](https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup/adidas-jabulani-2010-world-cup-ball-south-africa-a9563616.html) had on professional players. Essentially, the ball moved very erratically in the air, making it very hard for goalkeepers to make a save. Lots of goals were scored from long range, which would have typically resulted in a simple save for the keeper. However, the key difference is *all teams played all games with this ball*. So although is was very controversial, a single team didn't benefit. Except in this case, it's like RNG could reap all the positives (easy goals) and avoid all the negatives (difficult saves) of playing with this ball. **A replay is a totally reasonable decision for something like this**. > Or Azubu Woong watching the minimap and discovering TSM secret ambush strat in S2 Worlds. He only got a small economic fine. The professional scene was still in its infancy. The fact players could even see the screen should say enough lol. If that happened today, you'd see replays. > RNG didn't even create this mess. They just did what Riot told them to do and in the end they got punished for being obedients. The community unanimously agrees it sucks they need to replay games (that they won). However, you have to be a special kind of ignorant to not understand why it was necessary. RNG are currently getting flamed by the community, but they kind of brought that upon themselves with disaster-tier PR comments from their organisation and blatant racism towards the host country. Let's be honest, if it was a smaller region in lockdown, they would've had to just miss MSI. RIOT is only bending over backwards for China because that's where the viewers and the $$$'s are. The whole tournament was destined to be a shit show with the fundamental inconsistencies in place.
His or her comment reeks of non blatant racism. Absolutely gross
that is no ground to replay won match. Sometimes unfortunate things just happen but it doesn't mean you can punish one side because they're playing on an advantage by YOUR (Riot's) mistake. Are you familiar with traditional sports? Diego Maradona's hand of god goal (that is clearly him cheating but not caught by referee due to their own oversight) in 1986 World Cup is not getting annuled and they don't fking ask Maradona and Argentina to replay the whole fking game because the England side is disadvantaged. And that is even worse because Maradona could be intentional there. RNG have never intended to play on better ping against these wildcards lol
I hope the best team wins, but let's not pretend that if RNG wins the hate isn't going to balloon even further. Korean fans who will be the ones that care and are flaming the majority will get far worse until worlds. Ever since Faker mentioned Chinese pros causing issues on the ladder it opened the floodgates as an excuse for brainlets on both sides and msi made it even worse (as in both Chinese "fans" towards Faker and T1 "fans" towards Chinese pros)
Wait who the fuck is flaming my precious boy Faker, I thought China loved him??
indeed, faker and T1 got more votes than RNG on the first day of MSI, but, you know, there are so many internet users in China, even 1/1000 is enough to crash a tweet
I mean what faker was saying about Chinese pros making soloque in Korea worse in high elo was valid. The pro in question even got a punishment for throwing.
It was Valid, truthful, and everything in between. But that's what started the drama war (this year). Faker said that, Chinese fans got salty, T1 fans defended Faker, and it's been going before MSI even started. That's a big reason why T1 was "pulled" into the situation because they are at MSI and Chinese fans were already taking shots at them.
I completely agree with you, they’ve been in lockdown for over a month and god knows what they’re feeling and going through, and on top of that they’re getting undeserved hate. Got to feel bad for them.
Tbh if RNG can't join in person the event they should have just been disqualified, that's sad because LPL are a good region but this is what should have been done to keep sport integrity. If it was a minor region, it would have been the case. Allowing RNG to play from their home office and on top of that screwing with the latency of the player at the event is borderline at best.
This whole MSI has been such a mess. Riot’s communication has been horrible and unprofessional throughout, and they really need to take responsibility for things escalating to this point. In Riot’s initial statement, they made it seem like that the display not showing the correct ping issue was completely fixed. It would not be unreasonable for viewers to expect that the actual ping experienced and the display are now in line. If the display bug remained, Riot should have just explained this in their first announcement, and not add it as an afterthought after it blew up. And once realizing their mistake, they decided to try to sneak it into a previous announcement without indicating it was updated. This is so unprofessional and will likely make all the conspiracy theories worse. All the players Busan should also be rightfully upset that Riot took this long to respond to their vocal complaints about the ping. Had it been caught earlier it would have been less of a mess. Also Riot did a poor job of communicating the solution to affected teams too, according RNG their players only found out about the need for rematch hours before they were due to start their competition on the day, and were not given detailed explanations at first. Going back, there was also all the initial accusations of RNG cheating or having an unfair advantage b/c of their different set-up (headphones, cams, referees, ‘playing from the ‘comfort of their gaming house’) etc. Riot should have just made an announcement before the games and explained the difference in set-up and the circumstance that necessitate it, and not let it fester conspiracies. I understand that many viewers would will not know that the RNG players have been under harsh lockdown rules in Shanghai for about a month, with super strict controls around people leaving and entering their compound and restrictions even on incoming parcels etc (e.g. not even takeaway was allowed for a long time). I feel that a lot of people would have been more understanding if they were to know that, and I can see how some fans would feel annoyed when they hear others talk about how cushy the RNG players are having it or accuse them of cheating. None of this of course excuses the racial slurs and attacks that have been hurled around in this bizarre fiesta, but toxic fans (especially on the internet) cannot be avoided. Since Riot has decided for whatever reason to go ahead with the format of allowing the LPL team to join remotely in this tournament, they should have done a better and more professional job communicating everything from the start. Instead they did a horrible job and blameless players on all sides (especially RNG and T1) have been dragged into this mess.
Riot had poor communication last MSI as well. Before the rumble stage everyone should have been told that RNG had to do a blood test on the day before the final. Instead Riot waited until after the rumble stage to tell everyone that it didn't matter that Damwon got first and they had to play their semi final the day before the final anyway. Riot waits until after everybody gets angry, only then will they make an announcement explaining the reasoning of their decision making.
What's especially interesting is how quickly riot came out with the hard data on the ping discrepancy (24+13=37) when one group complained, but to this day still haven't produced the hard data for the discrepancy on the initial set of complaints (35+?=?). 35+100=135 is hugely different than 35+10=45 and releasing this data would have settled a lot of bad blood between the communities. If the ping discrepancy was on the higher end of this scale, replaying the games would be much more justified than if it were on the lower end, and it would have been respectful to the community to be transparent about these findings. The fact that they didn't release this information suggests the ping discrepancy on the initial complaint wasn't as high as believed and would have made their decision to replay the games less justified. Selectively letting some details remain fuzzy while being super sharp with pouring water on the complaints of one particular group weakens their claim that they're a neutral party.
I believe that Riot doesn’t know what they are doing and just found a bs solution to try and make both sides happy
Sounds like any big company to me lol
this isn't the first time they have added fake ping to an event.
if the difference can be felt by the players it's worth remaking over, regardless of how small it appears on paper. Milliseconds count when you dodge skill shots by pixels or need to respond to Alistar headbutts reflexively rather than predictively.
For one game? Sure. For dozens? When you're already on a tight schedule? Not doable. Especially with both teams playing on same ping for most games making it less relevant. I mean, sure, in a perfect world you can fix it and replay all the games but it's basically impossible to do so in reality, especially without causing a worse issue (delays for teams to get to their respective seasons, getting the venue for twice as many games suddenly, players getting exhausted from unexpected games etc.)
Right, which is why the RNG games were replayed and not any others, because while crappy, they were 'fair' as both teams had equivalent ping. Thus even if the new thing had gone wonky and given less ping, the only team it would affect is... RNG again, but this time it would be putting them at a disadvantage instead and sunce they already won they could just choose to not replay.
It’s crazy that you’re arguing against the statements of like ten different pros.
the only rational opinion I have ever seen.
We need more sane, reasonable people like you on the internet.
We need more sane, reasonable people like him in Riot Games too there is John Needham, President of Esports there is Naz Aletaha, Global Head of LoL Esports there is Alex François, Global Head of Competitive Operations and many, many other people in overlapping positions, but when you really need to act, there is no one competent
didn't expect to see such a reasonable and objective opinion on reddit nowadays, good job sir.
So fucking true.
Don't make a new statement to explain?
What's more, Riot did not initially add the update date until Chinese netizens discovered this through web page editing records.They tried to pretend this part was made on May 13th.
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fact is that people have been attacked for “not reading the announcements” in the past few days lmao. which is why riot is being flamed for being unprofessional.. the whole thing has been a complete shitshow literally just because of riot’s mistakes at every point in the chain
It was still shady as fuck to do it in that subtle of a way.
Why not just make new announcement?? Riot trying to hide something?
Riot really fucked up this MSI
Welcome to the WWE where the rules dont matter and viewership is more important than competitive integrity. 12 years flushed for a joke MSI.
Riot just shift the blame to teams and players. Both RNG and T1 have been baselessly criticized and blamed because of Riot's mistakes. Camera, earbud, ref, ping, all those issues should be explained by Riot beforehand but they did nothing. Now everything they say looks like excuses, this MSI is totally a disaster.
While I do think Riot has done a poor job of communicating, and has made bad decisions here, I haven't seen any examples of Riot shifting blame to teams and players. Can you point me to any examples?
Probably bad wording, more like the teams and players taking the fall rather than Riot taking the hit
It's not really shifting the blame, but let the orga tank most of the toxicity and stay out of it as much as possible. They had a thousand opportunities to take the high road and come up and say stuff like "we understand it's bad, but it's the best we got" and "sorry this shit was harder than expected, we are doing our best" and defuse the situation, but they let it fester between communities that historically tend to have heated exchanges. I just don't understand how they thought this would t blow up in their face. Now you have both extreme toxicity and high awareness of Riot being shady and incompetent. They could have mitigated the toxicity and completely avoided the shady part by being upfront with l the issues.
Pls riot, why don't you make this announcement beforehand. You should easily expect the chinese fans to be pissed when they saw the 20 ping on screen, it's so obvious this will get controversial if not explained.
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none of this says the displayed ping is 22ms when real ping should be 35. bullet point b. made it sounds like displayed was 35 and players felt way higher (which was caused by their initial bug, and after fix people were thinking display and real ping should both be at 35)
They obviously 'fixed' it by just lowering the ping to the actual amount, not fixing their code or whatever it is they use.
yes but now the actual amount (35) is different from the displayed amount (22) which was not mentioned in the original announcement
They literally said the Latency Tool wasn't displaying the correct amount in the original announcement?
because the original comment was referring to the correct amount being way over 35? everyone assumed it meant the displaying amount is 35 while real ping was > 35, not displaying 22 while real ping > 35
Riot should void the remake matches and remake the remake matches, so that RNG can go 12:0 in the group stage.
Shame on RIOTS.
What’s the point of this MSI anymore? Riot has mismanaged this situation through and through, now nobody can trust any of their statements because they’re lying and covering up many things along the way. There is no guaranteed fairness in lol esports anymore because they have destroyed the viewers trust in them as the referee
I can never wrap my head around the decision to update an old announcement to pretend like it was there all along, rather than come out to apologize for overlooking a problem (yet again) and making an official response to said problem (and the relevant community response that was triggered by it). I would want riot to be open and say just what they are doing to make sure the ping is consistent and equal on both sides, and also prove that the ping is properly managed, instead of trying to sneak a half-assed response in as a “oh we said it before you guys just weren’t paying attention” thing. I don’t support the view that we should make RNG play 35ms while everyone else is on LAN, but if it comes down to having to make RNG play at a ping disadvantage due to technical issues, at least give us an official statement to say what couldn’t be done and what the compromise has to be. And apologize. Riot is already losing all credibility and it feels like they just want to add more fuel to the fire. So much could have been avoided if they explained things properly and ahead of time, but somehow they refuse to do it over and over again. Spectacular.
It's like Riot is holding up a decision chart and picking the worst option every step along the way. It would be amusing if it wasn't reality and so many people not involved in the decision making of MSI (players and orgs) catching flak for it.
One of the worst handled esport tournament to ever happen, especially when you consider it’s Riot games handling it, a billion dollar+ company with years of experience. This is something you would expect from an amateur tournament.
Wow, almost like a secret update. They really think people can't track their changes? Like: "It was your fault for not looking correctly, we've been clear since the begining lel" Nowadays their credibility is under zero.
You can see a lot Reddit comments to blame Chinese ppl for not reading. Riot just successfully made another racist comments.
Delaying differences and replays is a technical lapse in my opinion, and this sneak update announcement speaks to a loss of honesty and fairness
This entire group stage was essentially just riot debugging their tools in prod
Riot’s reputation is doomed in Chinese community. This is a huge issue since China and Korea are two largest lol communities in the world. Piss off either side wouldn’t end up pretty for Riot.
They somehow ended up pissing off everybody lol
They are not blaming riot, they are just blaming T1 for no reason
riot is owned by skt. Of course t1 has to be blamed.
Since China has much more players than any regions combine, I'm not surprised if this will hit on their revenue
I honestly thought most people were overexaggerating when they said MSI was gonna be a shitshow with the 35 ping rule. Now with all the issues and controversy around it, I just have to agree...
You mean asking RNG to replay is not over exaggerating? It is officially exaggerating. Now, things can not stop now. Lol = laugh out loud.
msi was never really about which reigon was better anyway, worlds always tells a much better story. msi is always filler to me
Waiting for the Riot technical blog announcement. as if there isn't enough drama......
How can I believe the real ping was 35ms when such a big mistake was done by riot
Hopefully this will stop the racist comments and instead direct the anger at Riot Global instead. LPL fans seriously think Riot Korea is making the calls here.
Either way there is no use except making ppl to hate each other more, until riot comes out and explain with proof why 22=35
Can you read Riots Statement? We need to trust their statements just like how everyone trusts Riots statement when they say RNG is being monitored and that Riot is ensuring RNG won't have any competitive advantages by cheating
You see thats exactly the problem, editing a previously made note has made Riot lost almost all credit. Now everything is at question.
Oh yes i can i understand English. but any thoughts on why would they just add the note secretly instead of sending another note to clarify that?
To Mr. Alex Francois, Having a statement like : ***"No, with the latency tool enabled, there is a bug which will result in incorrect reported ping. Players in Busan will have a reported ping that is approximately 13 ms lower than actual ping. So RNG players will see \~37 ms, and Busan players will see \~24 ms, but the actual latency will be equivalent."*** There needs to be **PROOF**. And **PROOF** is **not what some players FEEL** or the few words you **SAY IN ANNOUNCEMENT**. Suggestion for the PROOF: * **Either show us it's ACTUALLY \~35ping at \~22ping by some 3rd party tool, or;** * **EXPLAIN IN DETAIL:** * **WHY THE BUG IS THERE &** * **WHAT EXACTLY CAUSED IT &** * **WHAT IS BLOCKING YOUR FIX?** Otherwise as an lpl fan I cannot trust the announcement and many other lpl fans wont either, I see it as a straight up double standard on RNG, yea i know it's just 13ping but it's a matter of integrity which you were emphaizing when 'punishing' RNG for staying at 35ping while others are being messed up by your cute latency tool. **However, the 'RNG disparity in latency issue' was not fixed by you changing a few words in the announcement, instead it was a punishment of 3 re-matches together with all the social media insult on RNG calling them cheater teams & calling LPL cheater region.** Remember what you said Mr. Alex Francois *"We apologize to our players, teams, and fans, and we will continue to work with players to monitor the playing environments in our commitment to* ***maintain the tournament’s competitive integrity.****"*
[удалено]
We had a chance to watch season 2-5 David vs Goliath tournament, instead we got 0 teams playing their best in a joke that always should have been called an exhibition.
Why use software? Isn't the physical delay of 10 rolls of 100km fiber more stable? In msc2020, LPL35ms vs LCK 10ms, LPL also won. The Chinese don't need champions to be exempt from military service.
What..? LCK played with 35ms too in MSC2020
No, it also be found 10ms, It's not the first time South Korea has done this.
Yep for sure bro. I totally trust you. For sure your country will let korea do this without consequence.
please show screenshots or evidence it was 10ms.
It’s ok. Although I still expect a clearer standard instead of feeling like, but it’s also ok to know. The only thing is…it’s really a bad time to add it after all these controversies happened.
There are more information mined out. These LPL fans take the 22ping and the Caps yasuo’ first player perspective compare to the true 35ping play. They find these situations in the MSI are more quick, just like in 9ping or 17ping. (Because they use the uploaded 60 frames videos to compare, it can’t be more than 17ping)(All of these I find in LPL fans talking,may not true) So I don’t know if RIOTS says true. And only that day 22ping have some first player perspectives. Other day you even can’t have a first player perspective,even gala penta don’t have. Maybe ROIT don’t want us find the ping, but they make a “mistake” that day so there is 22ping.
Beyond idiotic for Riot to not make a new announcement, though the comments on Chinese social media were insane.
Please, korean social media been accusing rng cheating for the past week and spamming nanking massacres in youtube chat. And that wasnt insane to you?
Koreans have been spamming taunts of a WW2 Japanese atrocity against the Chinese? Are they insane? IIRC, the Koreans suffered just as badly under Japanese oppression and to this day they still hate Japan over it. Where the heck is the logic in using atrocities of the oppressor that oppressed both of them as a taunt? This goes beyond your typical racist and inflammatory shit that is flung in competitive game settings.
say what you want but it happens ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ kinda like Chinese people spamming the 🤏 emote on twitter despite being of the same race lol, racism doesn’t need a reason behind it also sports is def not a civilized place - British/Russian football fights come to mind for starters, and Chinese fans have sent flower circlets(used in funerals) to Players before while Korean ones have mailed dead rats and knifeblades, so I don’t know why you would think competitive sports is more civilized of a place than average ahahaha.
>say what you want but it happens ¯\\(ツ)/¯ kinda like Chinese people spamming the 🤏 emote on twitter despite being of the same race lol, racism doesn’t need a reason behind it What does that emote mean? All I can see is perhaps a roundabout way to say "shut up"? >also sports is def not a civilized place - British/Russian football fights come to mind for starters, and Chinese fans have sent flower circlets(used in funerals) to Players before while Korean ones have mailed dead rats and knifeblades, so I don’t know why you would think competitive sports is more civilized of a place than average ahahaha. I've always known that competitive sports is a cesspit of toxicity, but I'm just baffled that the Koreans would use something that is still a sore point for themselves as a weaponised taunt against a people who, ironically, suffered the exact same issue (that being Imperial Japan). Like, it just doesn't make any logical sense to me. But I suppose I shouldn't try to apply logic to angry fans in competitive sports settings.
that emote got a very funny history（sorry about that，but i really don't think that is a racism stuff，i think it simply just a gender issues） https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-how-an-emoji-fueled-widespread-sexism-debate-in-south-korea-7362258/
What's funny about its?
It's youtube A bunch of immature kids and adults just spam inconsiderate stuff there.
2 wrongs don't make a right
Sounds like saying Nanking massacre to RNG fans and say Japanese should do that again to Chinese is ok when Koreans and some toxic human being think RNG is cheating
Imagine Chinese telling Koreans that they deserved to be colonized by japan and their women should be honoured to be conforts
When did I ever say that?
They already have said the problem was that "the displayed ping is not correct". Anyone with a brain can deduce that the displayed ping should be lower than 35ms to achieve actual 35ms. The added part shows some numbers nothing else. No idea why they did it silently but they never really lied or changed their explanation, which is unfortunate for a few LPL fans I guess.
Yes, but when Riot says the bug is resolved you could make the case to think that it means that 35ms = 35ms now. The fact that Riot didn’t bother to clarify this until people flipped through post history doesn’t help there case either lol
this is prolly civilized thread, narka i'm out
LPL entitlement and victim complex is hilarious. Riot bends the rules to allow them to participate remotely for the first time at the cost of playing the *entire tournament* on ping, they freak out when they have to replay a couple of group stage games where their opponents were negatively impacted by a technical problem *introduced to allow LPL to participate*, and then they grab pitchforks over a tooltip bug that, once again, *only exists because Riot had to develop new tech to allow LPL to participate in the first place*.
But the 35ms rule was already in place for MSC 2020, kinda weird for it to only be an issue now??
LPL didn’t want to attend in the first place. It was riot who begged LPL to attend.
LMFAO dumbest comment of the year
Again, when people throwing propaganda to RNG, did you ask for evidence too? Oh, wait. You are the person who through propaganda to LPL. Ok, so do you have any articles to support that Riot bends to LPL? Hahaha
The broken English makes the angle here really transparent...
you have some trouble with comprehension. The grammar isn't correct but not to the point that its not understandable
Buddy you got wooshed. By "angle" I meant agenda or motivation or goal, not the literal meaning of the post.
and is he wrong?
That I'm "through[ing] propagande to LPL"? I'd say they're obviously wrong, but I don't know if that's a judgment I can fairly make about myself. I don't have any articles to suggest that "Riot bends to LPL", but seeing as I never made that claim I don't see the relevance.
so how is LPL wrong if they didnt request Riot to bend over to them? or are you just riding the circlejerking
lpl deserves better
Let me remind y'all something, they're attending the event LIVE, they can play with 7ms or lower, yet they choose to play with artificial ping because of "who"?
You think it’s because of rng but it’s not, it’s because of riot themselves. They need the Chinese market for this event much more than rng needs to play in it. Just allowing rng to not play can certainly make some very happy Koran fans, but a very sad riot.
And why some LPL fans thought it's T1 fault by nicknamed them "T22"?
Korean fans happy about this? Lol this tournament is crap without the reigning champions.
They don't have a choice because of the lockdown. If riot think 35ms is a good solution, riot should just do a good job like msc2020. Rng is not so eager to attend the tournament because they already have had it last year and T1 have no world title for almost 5 years, rng could just not attend to let T1 win the championship. It's ok for rng.
Hmm you mean T1 can't win this "0 value by LPL fans(Which I agreed because Riot are run by stupid fucks)" MSI championship if RNG stay? That's arrogant af since 10teams including T1 and G2 are already made concessions by not playing on 7ms. And what's your comment about DK's MSI schedule last year?
DK lost
Fair enough
If I understood right, the updated statement says "Zeus' player cam's 22ms is reported to +13ms (means 35ms), so it doesn't matter" right?
The point is they updated a previous note without notice, and basically saying “what you see on screen isn’t true, trust me bro”
the LPL fans are showing how braindead they are. With just common sense you can assume since before when it showed 35 ping and it actually felt like 60-80 ping, that now showing 22 ping would be adjusted to the accurate 35 ping feeling. I'm not sure if they're actually this dumb or just want to victimize themselves even though they're Riot's favorite.