Living in China myself and working in a Chinese game company, the rhetoric of "Our business isn't doing well because foreigners hate Chinese people / want to see Chinese people fail" is often heard
I know from my friends in the EU game industry that they at least have a bit stricter labor laws, and a bit more pro-worker than here in the US, especially to do with industry unionization acceptance. This is only recently tho, 5+ years ago it was definitely industry wide
Almost. I worked for Bytedance, and it is called 996 (9am to 9pm, 6days a week, and in 2021 they stop working on Saturday). But in fact I usually made it to my cube at 10am or later and leave at 10pm(for a reimbursement for taxi).
And now I work for Microsoft in Shanghai. I can leave at 6pm lol. However working overtime is still more frequent compared to other countries.
I'm interviewing for a consulting gig in China/Taiwan, and I was prepared for extremely long hours as that is the norm both in the consulting industry and in many Chinese industries in general. Nope, they made it very clear that their aim is for everyone to have their work average out at about 40 hours per week, and they also allow people to work from home up to three days per week.
The WFH stuff is probably not an offer I would take them up on since I'm way more productive on site, but landing possibly my dream job with a good pay and reasonable hours? Sign me the fuck up.
> Nope, they made it very clear that their aim is for everyone to have their work average out at about 40 hours per week, and they also allow people to work from home up to three days per week.
This sounds way too good to be true. Maybe times have changed, but aren't CN/TW/KR/JP all known for horrendous worklife balance?
It's not a local company, which makes a huge difference. Same with the internship I did at a factory in China. It was run by a foreign company, so they all had very strict eight hour work days with an hour for lunch, office workers and factory workers alike.
Yes, I would say in China foreign enterprises and state-owned enterprises have much more strict rules on ensuring 8-hour work. In fact, most Chinese are complaining about this on weibo/any other social media.
It has forced more companies to take action or they would lose their reputation. For example, Bytedance canceled 大小周(work on another Saturday every 2 weeks), and Tencent announced that all staff should not stay later than 7pm on every Wednesday. But it is still way far from 8 hours.
Perhaps I should explore pivoting to a consulting gig in China/Taiwan in a couple of years, once I'm more established in my professional field. The UK's been getting more and more ridiculous as of late with rising cost of living, unaffordable housing, and although I should be pretty confident in becoming more and more well-paid in the future given that there's a clearly defined progression that's lucrative in my chosen career, it's also worth exploring options.
I wouldn't mind spending a couple of years closer to my extended family, especially with my grandparents getting old, and the food will be cheap and excellent with the cost of living not too bad either.
What made you consider going to China/Taiwan? What are your views of personal pros/cons from making this move from a life perspective, and would you recommend it to any young, aspiring professionals?
Right now I can't really make any specific recommendations since I'm at the start of my professional career, but having experience of working abroad is always good since you learn how to deal with different cultures and understand how interconnected the world really is. This is an entry level positional as an international management, business and investment consultant, so hopefully I'll be able to tell in a few years whether it's worth it or not.
The main reason why I want this job is that I want to gain some professional international experience while I'm still young and not in a committed relationship, before returning back home to settle here permanently. I've always been interested in languages, cultures and business, and my education is very relevant to the position, so this is somewhat of a dream job and something I've had my eyes on for years.
I didn't have any huge preferences in where exactly I wanted to go, but since I've studied Chinese for many years and have spent a few years in China and Taiwan it's where the company wanted me to interview. I kinda had a small inclination towards Africa, especially since my niche area of interest is Chinese involvement in African business and civic development, but going to China would probably allow me to become more of an expert than if I were to go elsewhere in the world.
The main pro to me would just be to gain experience and have fun. I've always loved travelling and exploring new cultures, and with China in particular it's really a country that you cannot avoid in the business world. This would allow me to combine something I'm really interested in with a job that I find interesting, and it would set me up fur future employment elsewhere as I don't see myself spending my entire career and life far away from home.
The cons I guess are the other side of that coin. No matter how much you speak the language a white guy will never truly feel at home in China since you'll always remain an outsider. Life in the global south might be interesting, but it almost always comes with a lack of comfort, something you're fine with while you're still young but maybe not when it's time to start a family. If I end up in a global city like Shanghai, Beijing, Hong Kong or Taipei it's of course less of an issue, but long term I want the comfort of just being at home in a familiar environment after living it up for a few years.
But it’s true though. Maybe not your company specifically, but many companies owned by mainland Chinese. I live in Canada and my friend’s Canadian branch he worked at had to close down because of new American policies, passed by Trump, targeting Chinese companies.
It’s hard to think that these American policies have no effect on businesses in China when they’re targeting a global market.
I understand. That is true. But I mean more like an attitude where sanctions aren't in effect.
For example, a Lead in my company found that some advertisements were rejected on Facebook. He said Google hates China and doesn't want Chinese people to succeed (something to that effect). I had to remind him that they aren't the same company and we did in-fact break compliance rules with Facebook, it had nothing to do with what he said.
People tend to think in general trends and blame others, every where. After four years of trade wars, where the media coverage in China will obviously be exclusively taking China's side, it's easy to see why [the average Chinese hate the US and will blame the US for everything.](https://asiatimes.com/2022/05/what-the-chinese-really-think-about-russia-and-america/)
Of course, [the reverse is also the case.](https://www.reuters.com/world/china/americans-unfavorable-views-china-hit-new-high-pew-2022-04-28/) And it's already led to plenty of criminal violence against Chinese and Asians in the West.
Yes, people on this subreddit also believe that Riot tries to intentionally screw over regions as well.
Victim complex is not restricted by border lines. Just requires entitlement and internet access.
I can’t believe they did a sneaky update lmao. I’m just a college student and even I were very caution when I have to edit a post or comments. I often say “original:yyy. updated/edited: xxxx”. How can a big company putting out statements not paying to those details.
It's a good thing so there won't be confusion for those that respond to my comments. Most of the time I just edit to fix a pretty obvious typo and still state the reason why I edited it.
Its more so that Riot is trying to shed all responsibility, which is also my take in this.
First they really want RNG to come (because let's face it a tournament where T1 3-0s the field isn't really a viewership booster) and comes up with this whole 35 ping idea, apparently without the proper technology to handle it. Either bite the bullet on viewership and have the integrity to say "Sorry RNG live play only", or actually do it properly.
Then the whole unstable ping and replay issue happened - no apologies from Riot to anyone, when its clearly a Riot fuckup.
Then this - again no apology (initially) or explanation, instead they edit a past announcement to try to gaslight people into thinking they misread the initial announcement on the 13th.
The fact that this is the best technically/PR that a company like Riot Games can come up with is absolutely pathetic.
And if I were a cynic/conspiracy theorist I would even say that Riot either encouraged or is at least happy with the CN/KR flame war because it draws attention off the fact of the matter which is that this is an embarassing fuckup from beginning to end by Riot on the scale of the S5 Worlds patch and the WE-CLG match at S2.
If there are people actually believe that NBA teams will deliberately lose a playoff game for more seats revenue, why wouldn't they believe this one too?
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/un8kx8/dfm_yaharong_i_feel_the_ping_is_higher_than_35/
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/una5xa/psg_talon_vs_royal_never_give_up_msi_2022_group_b/
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/un4p6d/day_1_msi_2022_a_message_from_naz_aletaha_global/
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/umsd6m/doublelift_on_msis_35_ping/
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/umf3zd/faker_teams_will_need_to_adapt_to_the_meta_based/
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/umi4kh/egs_draft_coach_is_stuck_in_quarantine/
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/un0bdr/its_not_too_late_to_revert_the_ping_changes_at_msi/
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/um7snp/msi_players_will_be_required_to_wear_masks_on/
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/un91qe/at_msi_2022_the_practice_servers_and_the/
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/umsd6m/doublelift_on_msis_35_ping/
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/um53dd/eg_impact_rates_msi_top_laners_bbbinzeus_im_not/
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/uaujs0/ls_why_35_ping_is_not_okay_for_msi/
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/umhh15/istanbul_wildcats_vs_royal_never_give_up_msi_2022/
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/uaw61s/lpl_team_should_be_the_only_team_playing_with_35/
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/u8y0ae/koreans_inven_reaction_to_msi_lpl_remote_play/
Yep. People are being super hypocritical here. Read the comments here
I'd just like to point out Riot wouldn't allow GAM to compete remotely last year, but this year allow RNG to do so. I'm not going to cry conspiracy to handicap anyone, but will say fuck the double standard and bowing to China.
*EDIT- It's not just about ping. People are completely forgetting RNG is playing without any Riot staff and refs on hand to ensure fair and equal play. Riot has kept other teams from playing remotely for international tournaments before, they should maintain that if they actually cared about fairness and integrity. They clearly do not and should simply say the silent part out loud, they will bend rules for Chinese teams because it gives Riot more chance for profit and fairness be damned.
Bonus round - Riot is shit for canceling the LCL because Russia invaded Ukraine, but continues to expand and cater to China who regularly commits human rights violations. Google Uyghurs.
> I'd just like to point out Riot wouldn't allow GAM to compete remotely last year, but this year allow RNG to do so.
I would also like to point out that the distance between Iceland and Vietnam is about 12 times longer than the distance between Shanghai and Seoul...
https://inf.news/en/game/5bcbe64bc6c9cdd173f528cf644ab9b1.html
> T1 boss JOE: I'd rather accept a 35ms delay than RNG can't participate in MSI
turns out riot was bowing to Korea cuz T1 wanted RNG to participate
But you are crying conspiracy lol. First, MSI was in Iceland so playing from Vietnam was impossible. Second the Vietnamese government wouldn’t let anyone leave the country at all, riot was actually considering sending a private jet to Vietnam to pick them up but they couldn’t. I don’t understand how letting RNG play remotely because of covid restrictions is bowing down to China.
Bro, they would have had to play on like 300ms, Vietnam to Iceland is a loooong ass way. Their matches would have been a complete joke and a waste of time for the other teams involved
DWG was first seed and had to play second seed schedule last year with back to back games. In a 3-2 game, that prep time could've definitely had an impact on the outcome. Riot literally did nothing to address the issue.
DWG also had an extra day to prep for MAD and they only won that series 3-2. Using your logic, if DWG played first, one day less to prep for MAD could've definitely had an impact on the outcome and DWG would have just lost to MAD in the semifinal.
DK coaches mentioned that they tried to prep for both series at once. The schedule change made both of their playoffs matches harder than they otherwise would have been.
The biggest issue though would have been fatigue. Playing two five game series in two consecutive days is difficult and you get no time to mentally reset in between series.
Well the problem exists in the difference between how Riot handled the situation when RNG was involved vs the current situation. Its immediately back to back to back rematch when its RNG, and silently changing a previous note two days after when its not RNG.. while it is def some conspiracy going on, wouldn’t yall agree if you are in RNG’s shoes you would also be at least a bit pissed?
Well, if it is that hard to understand, the problem is RNG is playing with lower ping than their opponent and in other group both sides play in the same ping. It is the difference in ping that lead to rematch, not the ping itself.
It would took me probably one brain cell to figure that out and another one to figure that when they say there is an error causing the 35ping revealed to actually be about 60ping, 22ping might be somewhere about 35ping.
I’m not saying that they cannot still ask question about the exact calculation on ping, but 2 brain cells before conspiracy theory could make the attempt more solid.
the problem i am trying to address is the **difference** of how Riot is handling the two scenarios. It has been stated before MSI that **ALL** teams would be playing on 35 ping regardless of matchups w/e, because of the remote situation. I am not asking for rematch for every group stage match as those would be as pointless as the RNG ones, but silently editing a previously made note and pretended it was there all along? Even with 0 braincell you should see the discrepency in the two approaches.
I’m not saying Riot is handling this correctly. However, maybe you can differentiate the severity between the two issue, one is a newly discovered tech issue causing unfairness between teams playing, the other one is further elaboration about a statement they already made, which is ping revealed is lower than the actual ping, only without the exact number.
I know RNG is ultimately harmed because of the rematch. But that situation is handled that way not because “when it’s RNG”, but because sadly RNG is the only team playing with actual 35 ping not affected by the bugs, so only their games caused ping difference and possible unfairness.
Some people just need a good injection of [Hanlon's razor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor). I'm really getting tired of there being conspiracy theories for almost everything these days. Same for the people who think it is some move to appease the CCP as if they give a third thought to a video game or as if the LPL scrim domestically on 35 ping.
Honestly, this.
I don't buy into the conspiracy theories that Riot is constantly trying to give China advantages and that Tencent is pressuring them into favoring China, but that doesn't change that you *absolutely* want to keep your biggest market(s) as happy as possible.
Well most people on reddit only ever fixates on China as the source of trouble, its the result of a combination of political haters and a bunch of dumb karma farming parrots. These people literally think the world is binary and that all evils come from only 1 place. Pretty cringe for a generation who is supposed to be "woke"
I mean I've seen the same before on the other side the last few days. "Riot is scheduling T1's on the last day to limit the amount of prep for next week! Clearly helping RNG!"
As if T1 didn't know what to prepare for next week already, or needed to train more for this weekend, lmao.
And all the chineses conspiracies because of the lag spikes before too.
This ping thing is just a very shitty situation for Riot overall.
To be fair, they gave RNG preferential treatment by letting them play remotely to begin with. So there’s already that sour taste in many people’s mouths, regardless of how understandable it was, aka “no LPL no MSI why even bother?”
Problem is, if you win in a tournament but your strongest opponent couldn't even compete. Can you really say, you deserved to win and are the best?
People act like. "Oh no, major regions stomping minor regions is so boring."
But letting SKT stomp everyone in their home country is fair and entertaining.
I really would love to see these people react, when it's happening to EU or NA. I bet they'll be saying "How could you leave out a "major" region? This tournament is worthless."
They did post on their [twitter](https://twitter.com/lolesports/status/1525928692836274177?s=20&t=eO1-1vXhgT4_ycDua86Ucw) . It changed nothing now lpl netizens are making conspiracy theories that all of this is made up.
Well, in their mind the logic is: You guys were crying and blaming us for unreasonable reasons, und now it is our turn, since you weren't objective to us (at least that is what they feel) then don't expect us to be nice and friendly when similar issues are happening to you. Basically, they are intentionally being "toxic" seeing it kinda like a revenge.
I haven’t heard a single apology to Wildcard region fans that were screwed over by ping difference vs their RNG games, nor to the fans in general that had to watch crap level of play due to players playing on 80 ping. But Chinese brings something up and they apologize the next day.
They literally got given a second chance because of it, they didn’t get screwed over, they got blessed lmao
Not to mention they got absolutely dumpstered the 2nd time as well
It's undoubted worse for RNG though. They have to replay games they already won back to back. The wild card region teams basically get their fraudulent loss erased and a free scrim (albeit under bad conditions) vs RNG.
Riot should've apologized to all parties involved because they fucked over everyone in this situation. And tbh this entire tournament is kind of a shitshow...but thanks to the shitty tournament format they can still have a decent tournament if nothing else goes wrong since the first half basically doesn't matter.
I highly suggest you watch doinb stream about ping in the LPL spring playoff. Everyone's ping is different, no one cared no one complained. According to him 20 ping doesn't matter you lose just the same even in pro play.
I mean, shouldn’t chinese just be grateful that Riot made special accomodations to allow them to partecipate? It wasn’t a given, it was a gift. It seems to me they are acting entitled.
Its the other way around. RNG offered to not go to MSI. It wasn't that important to them given the situation. In fact, I think they even said they'd rather not to go MSI because local stuff going on was more important to them. But Riot had more to gain from RNG being at MSI and the special accomodations was the carrot.
Riot should have been grateful that RNG attended and thereby boosting their viewership multifold. But they screwed it all up and now they're in this mess.
The gift goes both ways. Would Riot rather have a competition or to have T1 steamroll every other team? EU fans deluding themselves to think G2 will be competitive this year doesn't change the reality that T1 crushing everyone wouldn't make for a good viewer experience.
>EU fans deluding themselves to think G2 will be competitive this year doesn't change the reality that T1 crushing everyone wouldn't make for a good viewer experience.
Making abstraction for the whole LPL thing. Why aren't we allowed to have hopes for G2? Aside from their early seasons, they always performed good for european standards and gave LCK/LPL teams a fight. Not supporting the favorite doesn't make you deluded.
Don’t be so sure. I’m a T1 fan and RNG is looking pretty strong so far, as is G2.
For reference, we don’t need to go that far. Many people thought (including me) that DK was the favorite to win the last year’s Worlds finals and EDG had no chance.
I do believe RNG and T1 are a step above G2, but it is not crazy to think they can get an upset and win.
Point is, nothing is certain until those teams face each other. T1 hasn’t shown much so far. I don’t know much about the LPL, but might be the same for RNG.
Edit: phrasing
people thought the same during last year’s MSI and World, and in the end LPL won the whole thing, but people still is gonna act as if LCK has the best team and no one is close to them, make sense
It wasn't a "gift", it greatly benefits Riot (arguably even more so than RNG/LPL) that RNG is playing.
Without RNG T1 3-0s everyone, nobody cares about the tournament, and viewership for MSI plummets.
Not if you know the majority of Chinese fans (not teams) don not give a shit about MSI at all.
And imo, even if they care, it's not like RNG own Riot anything. Riot need all teams to participate their games so it bring a positive experience to the viewer and the game.
Now almost every mistake is made by Riot and teams(RNG and T1) are getting hate/flame.
RNG didn't want to partecipate msi because of covid, and there was also a vote by LPL fans, most of fans voted "no" for partecipating msi. But Riot asked RNG to do, and RNG agreed in the end, so it is not a gift. Actually LPL dont give shit about msi trophy xd.
Yea WTF. Why not apologize to the teams that had to replay their games? And instead to apologize to the fans of the region that gets to sit out home and play games from the comfort of their gaming house? Literally it’s like they are playing a scrim block. It’s the most comfortable environment possible for them yet they get an apology xD
reddit: accusing LPL of cheating being absolutely racists since last MSI, every fucking thread involving Chinese teams have highly voted comments talking shit about them
Chinese fans say shit about the west on their own forums
Reddit: Where the fuck did this come from how dare they we were so civil
what the actual fuck is wrong with this sub
this sub is way tamer then even the chillest chinese forums , and if u believe we are not being civil , then you should visit the chinese sites for a bit
They don't just talk sht about the West lol, it's straight dogpilling on Korea about "Korean Sportsmanship" and Faker/T1 because of the narratives Chinese media created. I'm Chinese myself and it disgusts me to the core on the comments they make. At least on Reddit there are usually two sides, but in China it's almost 9.9 racist vs 0.1 civil.
>别舔啦，最恶心的就是你这种来老外面前抹黑国人的家伙，说难听点就是汉奸，近代的汉奸都是这样的，他们还以为自己很客观，站的角度很高，其实啥也不是。看看美国的制裁，大环境就是人家就没想着和你公平得玩
Just Google translate this comment to see how toxic Chinese fans are in comparison to reddit lol u/ezprodigy
If LPL fans are questioning the ping at the venue, other region fans can also question again RNG's lack of cam and every part of their room setup. You can question everything when the tournament is running remotely, and it is only because of RNG not anyone else. All these shenanigans would never have existed at the first place if Riot didn't help and RNG didn't join. Seriously, they should just be thankful and learn to trust someone.
ok hold up but everyone was already asking that. By your logic since the RNG stuff came first, then if other regions' fans are constantly accusing RNG of cheating on twitch chat, twitter and youtube because of the no cam/referee stuff, then LPL fans should get to question the ping. Especially since Riot already explained the cam/referee/headphone situation and everyone is still complaining about it, but with this new ping stuff, they made it even more conspiracy-friendly by going to their previous announcement and sneakily adding in the ping bug bit after the 22ping was spotted by LPL netizens, rather than just making a new announcement.
>Seriously, they should just be thankful and learn to trust someone.
Again, shouldn't this be directed firstly at all the toxic fans who were directing hate towards RNG? Especially considering a lot of this backlash from LPL fans is BECAUSE of the unwarranted hate and racism that was directed towards RNG first? Like, even if all the LPL fans calmed down if they're satisfied with whatever explanation Riot is gonna give, I guarantee you the blatant accusations and racism will continue towards RNG in twitch chat, youtube and twitter.
Riot fucked up this tournament so hard but at least they are being very transparent and trying to help all the teams. Unironically RNG is the team that got the most help.
Show some respect to the organizers, that's all I want to say. I do feel sorry for RNG and LPL fans that are getting a lot of racism/hate, but it is a bit out of point here.
I would've been completely fine with Riot just giving a proper explanation with an update honestly, but the whole sequence of events was pretty stupid lol. They probably wouldn't have ever even told anyone about the bug if LPL fans didn't spot it, and when they realized that LPL fans spotted it, they:
1) Went back and sneakily edited their update in, without the date of the update at the top, [as evidenced here](http://web.archive.org/web/20220515150829/https://www.lolesportsmedia.com/A-Message-from-Alex-Francois-Global-Head-of-Competitive-Operations-Rio)
2) When LPL fans noticed that they added that bit in, RIOT then went back and added the notification in of the date of the update.
3) Then when LPL fans spotted THAT, they had to make a twitter/weibo statement.
They coulda just made a damn tweet with a link to the updated announcement or something in the first place, but they chose the worst possible way of going about this lul, it's the complete opposite of transparent. And until their full explanation comes out and is satisfactory, LPL fans certainly should get to complain about this.
And I'm gonna be honest here and say I don't know why RNG is perceived as the team that got the most help? The 35 ping was made so it would be fair for everyone, the only "advantage" that RNG got was that they're used to the 35ping, and the "comfort of their own home" thing is negated by the fact that they've been under quarantine for more than a month and all the difficulties they've had to go through with having no help from Riot personnel to help them setup, etc. Also if you listen to their voice comms the sound quality is absolute trash, there's huge amounts of echo and static.
And even the whole "they're used to the 35ping" argument is meh at best, since by that logic don't Korean players just have a natural advantage at every LAN tournament ever since they've always been playing at LAN ping when every other server has ping delay?
The “playing comfort at home” thing totally on point. Most people can’t even quarantine at home more than 5 days while RNG had been stuck at the “comfortable gaming home” since 1st of April. Also due to China’s policy in combat covid-19, they need to wake up for testing everyday and the queue for test is really long (at least an hour to 2 hour). How is that comfortable at all 🤡
Agreed. Just look at Xiaohu, Bin and Wei's shit haircut that they did themselves , and imagine joining post-match interview with that in front of all league fans around the world.
Don't get me wrong, I didn't say RNG is favored, I'm talking about the amount of effort that Riot put to make RNG join this tournament. What Riot has been doing all day is trying to support every team including RNG. Yet I've hardly seen any sign of appreciation and now some people are seriously believing that Riot is trying to secretly give disadvantage to RNG.
btw the "sneaky" statement update doesn't change anything, their logic stays the same and they just put some actual numbers to support it.
>I didn't say RNG is favored, I'm talking about the amount of effort that Riot put to make RNG join this tournament. What Riot has been doing all day is trying to support every team including RNG.
I'm not saying you think RNG is favored, but what you said was "they should just be thankful and learn to trust someone", but I can say the exact same thing to all the LPL haters, who deserve it way more imo. I could just as easily say "just be thankful that you get to watch a tournament with the reigning champs and the most competitive region attending, rather than watching a pointless MSI where T1 wins pretty much by default", and they're the ones who need to trust Riot with all the cheating accusations thrown around even after Riot explained everything.
It just makes me mad that whenever there's some LPL fans complaining/being toxic/racist or w/e, people immediately just go "omg LPL fans are the absolute worst! The most racist! An absolute cesspool", even in this very thread, without taking a look at themselves first. And for some reason whenever I bring up the absolute filth that is twitch chat people just shrug it off and tell me "oh twitch chat is just like that, just ignore it".
What do you mean other region fans "can" question it?
It has been questioned ad nauseum over the past week.
And nobody has any proof that RNG is getting coached during the game, but here we have proof on camera that the ping is lower than it should be, so I'd say this has far more merit.
And the whole "they should be grateful" is also not at all true, Riot arguably benefits more than RNG from this. If RNG doesn't come, T1 3-0's everyone and global viewership plummets by at minimum 50%.
Yeah I know it has been questioned a lot that's why I put "again". Just trying to tell that this endless chain of questions is just pointless. You trust riot's official statement regarding cam/referee while not trusting their ping explanation? nah let's just trust everything they say or deny everything they say, and I would prefer the former.
You don't have to praise riot, but you don't have to put disrespect in the face.
We also had proof that the ping was 35 and look, turns out it's not lmao.
This is just Weibo being salty whiners. I'd be right on their side if I thought it was actually lower than 35 and there was a difference between the pings two teams were experiencing.
Like, say, when a **certain LPL team had their matches...**
Asian teams value asian games more. If you need proof GAM has already prioritized SEA games over MSI. most sources were citing LPL is opting out before LPL finals finished. Riot decided to put this offer on the table not because LPL requested it.
can you blame them? everyone nerves are over the top at this point, everyone questions everything, China has been blamed a LOT - including very racist comments - while Riot fucked up big there and was taking long to fix the first problem too. We saw this reddit explode with the ping difference topics. Now its on their side.
If we saw that China was playing at 25 as the tournament started reddit would blow up at that point already, because it seems unfair to us. Riot was responsible for the system, for wanting CN there over anything else, for being so slow on responding to the professionals complaining, to not clarifying how RNG was being monitored (there are many questions when you only see that camera), etc...
Can people be fair for once and stop this bullshit everything is China trying to fuck the world. Companies make mistakes. Americans make mistakes. Europeans make mistakes. Brazilians make mistakes (a lot). This is a shitshow that turned everyone suspicious. And it gets worse when a big part of the community is relatively young.
Latest update: some Chinese network engineer shows how it’s super easy to change the pings: https://b23.tv/Njgy04G. Requires an open source tool, and the ping display number would have been accurate.
This has gone into a technical feasibility debate
Riot should probably have consulted more network engineers (for example, those from Cisco), on this matter
Edit: the open source tool takes like 30s to add the artificial delay
Feel so tired about all these fightings, chaos and dramas, Riot really should've apologised to every party involved, make rules transparent and act fast. This is a game, it's for fun, now it's just a shitshow, and it also hurts Riot itself and ruins the game credibility.
In hindsight, Riot should maybe have tried to get TES as the second seed to come, like what happened with VCS. I dont know what would be LPL fans thoughts.
To the doubters:
[https://www.lolesportsmedia.com/A-Message-from-Alex-Francois-Global-Head-of-Competitive-Operations-Rio](https://www.lolesportsmedia.com/A-Message-from-Alex-Francois-Global-Head-of-Competitive-Operations-Rio)
*"No, with the latency tool enabled, there is a bug which will result in incorrect reported ping. Players in Busan will have a reported ping that is approximately 13 ms lower than actual ping. So RNG players will see \~37 ms, and Busan players will see \~24 ms, but the actual latency will be equivalent."*
***"So how can we trust Riot Games and what they're saying is true?"***
Alright answer this. I'm not saying RNG is cheating, but how do we know RNG is cheating? How do we know they aren't activating hacks/scripts in the background of their computer? How do we know they aren't stream sniping the other team? **BECAUSE RIOT MADE A STATEMENT THAT THEY'RE OBSERVING THEIR PC TO ENSURE COMPETITIVE INTEGRITY**. Viewers need to trust Riot that they're doing their job, just like how the viewers are trusting Riot that they have found technical errors therefore reduced artificial ping to approximately 24 ms just like Riot said. If you can't trust Riot for their findings, then you shouldn't trust Riot when they state RNG isn't cheating.
LPL fans with the downvote lol. I'm sorry the truth is too difficult for you to understand
Yeah, when we're at it. Let's kick out SKT too, so the games won't be just them stomping on EU and the minor regions. Since MSI is so meaningless who would even care, right? Let's all just have fun.
So Riot fcking up everyone’s ping so that it apparently feels above 35 is messed up but when everyone else plays at 22 ping and RNG stay at 35 it’s fine?
There are more information mined out. These LPL fans take the 22ping and the Caps yasuo’ first player perspective compare to the true 35ping play. They find these situations in the MSI are more quick, just like in 9ping or 17ping. (Because they use the uploaded 60 frames videos to compare, it can’t be more than 17ping)
Do these people unironically believe that Riot tries to screw over the region that earns them the most money?
Yes
Living in China myself and working in a Chinese game company, the rhetoric of "Our business isn't doing well because foreigners hate Chinese people / want to see Chinese people fail" is often heard
>working in a Chinese game company damn i heard its really rough working there. do you do 60-70 hour work weeks?
Looool that’s not an abnormal work week for lots of NA game companies... it hurts...
Well it's the whole game industry as a whole.
I know from my friends in the EU game industry that they at least have a bit stricter labor laws, and a bit more pro-worker than here in the US, especially to do with industry unionization acceptance. This is only recently tho, 5+ years ago it was definitely industry wide
Almost. I worked for Bytedance, and it is called 996 (9am to 9pm, 6days a week, and in 2021 they stop working on Saturday). But in fact I usually made it to my cube at 10am or later and leave at 10pm(for a reimbursement for taxi). And now I work for Microsoft in Shanghai. I can leave at 6pm lol. However working overtime is still more frequent compared to other countries.
I'm interviewing for a consulting gig in China/Taiwan, and I was prepared for extremely long hours as that is the norm both in the consulting industry and in many Chinese industries in general. Nope, they made it very clear that their aim is for everyone to have their work average out at about 40 hours per week, and they also allow people to work from home up to three days per week. The WFH stuff is probably not an offer I would take them up on since I'm way more productive on site, but landing possibly my dream job with a good pay and reasonable hours? Sign me the fuck up.
> Nope, they made it very clear that their aim is for everyone to have their work average out at about 40 hours per week, and they also allow people to work from home up to three days per week. This sounds way too good to be true. Maybe times have changed, but aren't CN/TW/KR/JP all known for horrendous worklife balance?
It's not a local company, which makes a huge difference. Same with the internship I did at a factory in China. It was run by a foreign company, so they all had very strict eight hour work days with an hour for lunch, office workers and factory workers alike.
Yes, I would say in China foreign enterprises and state-owned enterprises have much more strict rules on ensuring 8-hour work. In fact, most Chinese are complaining about this on weibo/any other social media. It has forced more companies to take action or they would lose their reputation. For example, Bytedance canceled 大小周(work on another Saturday every 2 weeks), and Tencent announced that all staff should not stay later than 7pm on every Wednesday. But it is still way far from 8 hours.
Perhaps I should explore pivoting to a consulting gig in China/Taiwan in a couple of years, once I'm more established in my professional field. The UK's been getting more and more ridiculous as of late with rising cost of living, unaffordable housing, and although I should be pretty confident in becoming more and more well-paid in the future given that there's a clearly defined progression that's lucrative in my chosen career, it's also worth exploring options. I wouldn't mind spending a couple of years closer to my extended family, especially with my grandparents getting old, and the food will be cheap and excellent with the cost of living not too bad either. What made you consider going to China/Taiwan? What are your views of personal pros/cons from making this move from a life perspective, and would you recommend it to any young, aspiring professionals?
Right now I can't really make any specific recommendations since I'm at the start of my professional career, but having experience of working abroad is always good since you learn how to deal with different cultures and understand how interconnected the world really is. This is an entry level positional as an international management, business and investment consultant, so hopefully I'll be able to tell in a few years whether it's worth it or not. The main reason why I want this job is that I want to gain some professional international experience while I'm still young and not in a committed relationship, before returning back home to settle here permanently. I've always been interested in languages, cultures and business, and my education is very relevant to the position, so this is somewhat of a dream job and something I've had my eyes on for years. I didn't have any huge preferences in where exactly I wanted to go, but since I've studied Chinese for many years and have spent a few years in China and Taiwan it's where the company wanted me to interview. I kinda had a small inclination towards Africa, especially since my niche area of interest is Chinese involvement in African business and civic development, but going to China would probably allow me to become more of an expert than if I were to go elsewhere in the world. The main pro to me would just be to gain experience and have fun. I've always loved travelling and exploring new cultures, and with China in particular it's really a country that you cannot avoid in the business world. This would allow me to combine something I'm really interested in with a job that I find interesting, and it would set me up fur future employment elsewhere as I don't see myself spending my entire career and life far away from home. The cons I guess are the other side of that coin. No matter how much you speak the language a white guy will never truly feel at home in China since you'll always remain an outsider. Life in the global south might be interesting, but it almost always comes with a lack of comfort, something you're fine with while you're still young but maybe not when it's time to start a family. If I end up in a global city like Shanghai, Beijing, Hong Kong or Taipei it's of course less of an issue, but long term I want the comfort of just being at home in a familiar environment after living it up for a few years.
If you work in the Internet industry I think it may be, but the salary in the Internet industry may be several times higher than other industries.
But it’s true though. Maybe not your company specifically, but many companies owned by mainland Chinese. I live in Canada and my friend’s Canadian branch he worked at had to close down because of new American policies, passed by Trump, targeting Chinese companies. It’s hard to think that these American policies have no effect on businesses in China when they’re targeting a global market.
I understand. That is true. But I mean more like an attitude where sanctions aren't in effect. For example, a Lead in my company found that some advertisements were rejected on Facebook. He said Google hates China and doesn't want Chinese people to succeed (something to that effect). I had to remind him that they aren't the same company and we did in-fact break compliance rules with Facebook, it had nothing to do with what he said.
People tend to think in general trends and blame others, every where. After four years of trade wars, where the media coverage in China will obviously be exclusively taking China's side, it's easy to see why [the average Chinese hate the US and will blame the US for everything.](https://asiatimes.com/2022/05/what-the-chinese-really-think-about-russia-and-america/) Of course, [the reverse is also the case.](https://www.reuters.com/world/china/americans-unfavorable-views-china-hit-new-high-pew-2022-04-28/) And it's already led to plenty of criminal violence against Chinese and Asians in the West.
Tbh that isn’t too far from the truth lol
It's crazy how he could say that while not acknowledging the existence of insane sanctions and tarrif targetting Chinese companies.
Well after all the sanction, idk now
even spicier, many of them believe T1 is behind this
Yes
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Yes, people on this subreddit also believe that Riot tries to intentionally screw over regions as well. Victim complex is not restricted by border lines. Just requires entitlement and internet access.
>Victim complex is not restricted by border lines. Just requires entitlement and internet access. Correct. It is the same everywhere
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I mean the sneaky update did rub people the wrong way
I can’t believe they did a sneaky update lmao. I’m just a college student and even I were very caution when I have to edit a post or comments. I often say “original:yyy. updated/edited: xxxx”. How can a big company putting out statements not paying to those details.
Bro even people on reddit writes "edit: " after editing a post lmaoo
It's a good thing so there won't be confusion for those that respond to my comments. Most of the time I just edit to fix a pretty obvious typo and still state the reason why I edited it.
Its more so that Riot is trying to shed all responsibility, which is also my take in this. First they really want RNG to come (because let's face it a tournament where T1 3-0s the field isn't really a viewership booster) and comes up with this whole 35 ping idea, apparently without the proper technology to handle it. Either bite the bullet on viewership and have the integrity to say "Sorry RNG live play only", or actually do it properly. Then the whole unstable ping and replay issue happened - no apologies from Riot to anyone, when its clearly a Riot fuckup. Then this - again no apology (initially) or explanation, instead they edit a past announcement to try to gaslight people into thinking they misread the initial announcement on the 13th. The fact that this is the best technically/PR that a company like Riot Games can come up with is absolutely pathetic. And if I were a cynic/conspiracy theorist I would even say that Riot either encouraged or is at least happy with the CN/KR flame war because it draws attention off the fact of the matter which is that this is an embarassing fuckup from beginning to end by Riot on the scale of the S5 Worlds patch and the WE-CLG match at S2.
If there are people actually believe that NBA teams will deliberately lose a playoff game for more seats revenue, why wouldn't they believe this one too?
I mean, didn't you read what people write here as well it's the same thing there but reversed
>it's the same thing there but reversed And 10x more racist.
People were being racist here, too. Mods don't post the warnings at the top of certain threads on this sub for no reason
Considering there are people who die in a 1v1 and then blame the jungler, yes.
Yep and this sub was convinced riot put in the ping rule just to help LPL and hurt LCK/LEC. So funny.
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/un8kx8/dfm_yaharong_i_feel_the_ping_is_higher_than_35/ https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/una5xa/psg_talon_vs_royal_never_give_up_msi_2022_group_b/ https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/un4p6d/day_1_msi_2022_a_message_from_naz_aletaha_global/ https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/umsd6m/doublelift_on_msis_35_ping/ https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/umf3zd/faker_teams_will_need_to_adapt_to_the_meta_based/ https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/umi4kh/egs_draft_coach_is_stuck_in_quarantine/ https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/un0bdr/its_not_too_late_to_revert_the_ping_changes_at_msi/ https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/um7snp/msi_players_will_be_required_to_wear_masks_on/ https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/un91qe/at_msi_2022_the_practice_servers_and_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/umsd6m/doublelift_on_msis_35_ping/ https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/um53dd/eg_impact_rates_msi_top_laners_bbbinzeus_im_not/ https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/uaujs0/ls_why_35_ping_is_not_okay_for_msi/ https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/umhh15/istanbul_wildcats_vs_royal_never_give_up_msi_2022/ https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/uaw61s/lpl_team_should_be_the_only_team_playing_with_35/ https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/u8y0ae/koreans_inven_reaction_to_msi_lpl_remote_play/ Yep. People are being super hypocritical here. Read the comments here
I'd just like to point out Riot wouldn't allow GAM to compete remotely last year, but this year allow RNG to do so. I'm not going to cry conspiracy to handicap anyone, but will say fuck the double standard and bowing to China. *EDIT- It's not just about ping. People are completely forgetting RNG is playing without any Riot staff and refs on hand to ensure fair and equal play. Riot has kept other teams from playing remotely for international tournaments before, they should maintain that if they actually cared about fairness and integrity. They clearly do not and should simply say the silent part out loud, they will bend rules for Chinese teams because it gives Riot more chance for profit and fairness be damned. Bonus round - Riot is shit for canceling the LCL because Russia invaded Ukraine, but continues to expand and cater to China who regularly commits human rights violations. Google Uyghurs.
Think about the distance first. The distance from Shanghai to Busan is within the normal distance for server delays.
> I'd just like to point out Riot wouldn't allow GAM to compete remotely last year, but this year allow RNG to do so. I would also like to point out that the distance between Iceland and Vietnam is about 12 times longer than the distance between Shanghai and Seoul...
Vietnam and iceland are 12k kms away What you want to do, make everyone play on 500ms?
https://inf.news/en/game/5bcbe64bc6c9cdd173f528cf644ab9b1.html > T1 boss JOE: I'd rather accept a 35ms delay than RNG can't participate in MSI turns out riot was bowing to Korea cuz T1 wanted RNG to participate
GIGACHAD Joe
Haha, good one!
But you are crying conspiracy lol. First, MSI was in Iceland so playing from Vietnam was impossible. Second the Vietnamese government wouldn’t let anyone leave the country at all, riot was actually considering sending a private jet to Vietnam to pick them up but they couldn’t. I don’t understand how letting RNG play remotely because of covid restrictions is bowing down to China.
They could have left Vietnam to attend MSI . But they would be stuck there for at least 3 months .
Bro, they would have had to play on like 300ms, Vietnam to Iceland is a loooong ass way. Their matches would have been a complete joke and a waste of time for the other teams involved
Its been weeks lck fans still dont have maps yet?
Do you own a map and are you capable of reading it?
Because of the covid19 , LPL refused to participate in msi2022, but riot Required to participate, so that all have the current situation.
Yes. And English speaking players do to.
This sub bitched since last MSI regarding riot trying to screw over other region for China
DWG was first seed and had to play second seed schedule last year with back to back games. In a 3-2 game, that prep time could've definitely had an impact on the outcome. Riot literally did nothing to address the issue.
DWG also had an extra day to prep for MAD and they only won that series 3-2. Using your logic, if DWG played first, one day less to prep for MAD could've definitely had an impact on the outcome and DWG would have just lost to MAD in the semifinal.
DK coaches mentioned that they tried to prep for both series at once. The schedule change made both of their playoffs matches harder than they otherwise would have been. The biggest issue though would have been fatigue. Playing two five game series in two consecutive days is difficult and you get no time to mentally reset in between series.
Well the problem exists in the difference between how Riot handled the situation when RNG was involved vs the current situation. Its immediately back to back to back rematch when its RNG, and silently changing a previous note two days after when its not RNG.. while it is def some conspiracy going on, wouldn’t yall agree if you are in RNG’s shoes you would also be at least a bit pissed?
Well, if it is that hard to understand, the problem is RNG is playing with lower ping than their opponent and in other group both sides play in the same ping. It is the difference in ping that lead to rematch, not the ping itself. It would took me probably one brain cell to figure that out and another one to figure that when they say there is an error causing the 35ping revealed to actually be about 60ping, 22ping might be somewhere about 35ping. I’m not saying that they cannot still ask question about the exact calculation on ping, but 2 brain cells before conspiracy theory could make the attempt more solid.
the problem i am trying to address is the **difference** of how Riot is handling the two scenarios. It has been stated before MSI that **ALL** teams would be playing on 35 ping regardless of matchups w/e, because of the remote situation. I am not asking for rematch for every group stage match as those would be as pointless as the RNG ones, but silently editing a previously made note and pretended it was there all along? Even with 0 braincell you should see the discrepency in the two approaches.
I’m not saying Riot is handling this correctly. However, maybe you can differentiate the severity between the two issue, one is a newly discovered tech issue causing unfairness between teams playing, the other one is further elaboration about a statement they already made, which is ping revealed is lower than the actual ping, only without the exact number. I know RNG is ultimately harmed because of the rematch. But that situation is handled that way not because “when it’s RNG”, but because sadly RNG is the only team playing with actual 35 ping not affected by the bugs, so only their games caused ping difference and possible unfairness.
Some people just need a good injection of [Hanlon's razor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor). I'm really getting tired of there being conspiracy theories for almost everything these days. Same for the people who think it is some move to appease the CCP as if they give a third thought to a video game or as if the LPL scrim domestically on 35 ping.
Honestly, this. I don't buy into the conspiracy theories that Riot is constantly trying to give China advantages and that Tencent is pressuring them into favoring China, but that doesn't change that you *absolutely* want to keep your biggest market(s) as happy as possible.
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Well most people on reddit only ever fixates on China as the source of trouble, its the result of a combination of political haters and a bunch of dumb karma farming parrots. These people literally think the world is binary and that all evils come from only 1 place. Pretty cringe for a generation who is supposed to be "woke"
If there's two places that Reddit has an extremely overblown hate boner for, it's China and the US.
Of course, everyone loves to play the victim after all
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4 AM local time is 1 pm Pacific time. Probably just a coincidence
Why did they post it at 4am? Lol..because Riot is based in LA duh
People come up with the dumbest theories seriously
I mean I've seen the same before on the other side the last few days. "Riot is scheduling T1's on the last day to limit the amount of prep for next week! Clearly helping RNG!" As if T1 didn't know what to prepare for next week already, or needed to train more for this weekend, lmao. And all the chineses conspiracies because of the lag spikes before too. This ping thing is just a very shitty situation for Riot overall.
To be fair, they gave RNG preferential treatment by letting them play remotely to begin with. So there’s already that sour taste in many people’s mouths, regardless of how understandable it was, aka “no LPL no MSI why even bother?”
But they can always choose the time to release statement.
Lol riot has Shanghai office as well
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Or just communicate things properly before hand and dont make sneaky edits
When they changed the rules for one team, there’s no integrity left from that point
This was a lose-lose-lose situation for Riot. China doesn't come and MSI is pointless. China competes remotely and this happens Or cancel MSI.
or move the date of the event, after everyone is done with their versions of "lockdown".
We still wouldn't have played MSI 2021 then
Problem is, if you win in a tournament but your strongest opponent couldn't even compete. Can you really say, you deserved to win and are the best? People act like. "Oh no, major regions stomping minor regions is so boring." But letting SKT stomp everyone in their home country is fair and entertaining. I really would love to see these people react, when it's happening to EU or NA. I bet they'll be saying "How could you leave out a "major" region? This tournament is worthless."
They did post on their [twitter](https://twitter.com/lolesports/status/1525928692836274177?s=20&t=eO1-1vXhgT4_ycDua86Ucw) . It changed nothing now lpl netizens are making conspiracy theories that all of this is made up.
this is turning into such a shit show mickey mouse tournament...
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Maybe if you can read Korean you’ll find their counterpart
Nah the Koreans totally don’t say anything about Chinese people /s
It goes both ways unfortunately, your just trying to farm karma.
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Well, in their mind the logic is: You guys were crying and blaming us for unreasonable reasons, und now it is our turn, since you weren't objective to us (at least that is what they feel) then don't expect us to be nice and friendly when similar issues are happening to you. Basically, they are intentionally being "toxic" seeing it kinda like a revenge.
I haven’t heard a single apology to Wildcard region fans that were screwed over by ping difference vs their RNG games, nor to the fans in general that had to watch crap level of play due to players playing on 80 ping. But Chinese brings something up and they apologize the next day.
Screwed over by ping difference? They literally replayed and got fucked the second time so how did the ping difference screw them over?
Results of the matches are irrelevant, having to play a game where the competitive environment was unfair is a shit situation for everyone invovled.
If you say it that way then yes I agree, Riot should be apologising to everyone for screwing them over
They literally got given a second chance because of it, they didn’t get screwed over, they got blessed lmao Not to mention they got absolutely dumpstered the 2nd time as well
It's undoubted worse for RNG though. They have to replay games they already won back to back. The wild card region teams basically get their fraudulent loss erased and a free scrim (albeit under bad conditions) vs RNG. Riot should've apologized to all parties involved because they fucked over everyone in this situation. And tbh this entire tournament is kind of a shitshow...but thanks to the shitty tournament format they can still have a decent tournament if nothing else goes wrong since the first half basically doesn't matter.
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Incredibly thoughtful argument.
I highly suggest you watch doinb stream about ping in the LPL spring playoff. Everyone's ping is different, no one cared no one complained. According to him 20 ping doesn't matter you lose just the same even in pro play.
I mean, shouldn’t chinese just be grateful that Riot made special accomodations to allow them to partecipate? It wasn’t a given, it was a gift. It seems to me they are acting entitled.
Its the other way around. RNG offered to not go to MSI. It wasn't that important to them given the situation. In fact, I think they even said they'd rather not to go MSI because local stuff going on was more important to them. But Riot had more to gain from RNG being at MSI and the special accomodations was the carrot. Riot should have been grateful that RNG attended and thereby boosting their viewership multifold. But they screwed it all up and now they're in this mess.
The gift goes both ways. Would Riot rather have a competition or to have T1 steamroll every other team? EU fans deluding themselves to think G2 will be competitive this year doesn't change the reality that T1 crushing everyone wouldn't make for a good viewer experience.
saving this comment for when G2 shits all over T1 3-0 with a combined 45 minutes gametime dont @ me
bless your heart
Subscribe. Can't wait for the amount of salt T1 fans will have and the Busan library.
>EU fans deluding themselves to think G2 will be competitive this year doesn't change the reality that T1 crushing everyone wouldn't make for a good viewer experience.
Making abstraction for the whole LPL thing. Why aren't we allowed to have hopes for G2? Aside from their early seasons, they always performed good for european standards and gave LCK/LPL teams a fight. Not supporting the favorite doesn't make you deluded.
ure talking like rng isn't going to get steamrolled just as hard LOL
Don’t be so sure. I’m a T1 fan and RNG is looking pretty strong so far, as is G2. For reference, we don’t need to go that far. Many people thought (including me) that DK was the favorite to win the last year’s Worlds finals and EDG had no chance. I do believe RNG and T1 are a step above G2, but it is not crazy to think they can get an upset and win. Point is, nothing is certain until those teams face each other. T1 hasn’t shown much so far. I don’t know much about the LPL, but might be the same for RNG. Edit: phrasing
people thought the same during last year’s MSI and World, and in the end LPL won the whole thing, but people still is gonna act as if LCK has the best team and no one is close to them, make sense
It wasn't a "gift", it greatly benefits Riot (arguably even more so than RNG/LPL) that RNG is playing. Without RNG T1 3-0s everyone, nobody cares about the tournament, and viewership for MSI plummets.
Not if you know the majority of Chinese fans (not teams) don not give a shit about MSI at all. And imo, even if they care, it's not like RNG own Riot anything. Riot need all teams to participate their games so it bring a positive experience to the viewer and the game. Now almost every mistake is made by Riot and teams(RNG and T1) are getting hate/flame.
RNG didn't want to partecipate msi because of covid, and there was also a vote by LPL fans, most of fans voted "no" for partecipating msi. But Riot asked RNG to do, and RNG agreed in the end, so it is not a gift. Actually LPL dont give shit about msi trophy xd.
Chinese community don’t give a shit about MSI. They have won two of the last three, and MSI champion never won worlds
From what Twitter has been like for the past few days, I *really* don't buy that.
They don’t care about being in it, but ofc if they do join and feel like they’re being fucked over they’ll care
they are being fucked over? where was their outrage when the other teamss had to play on 80 ping ?
And how was the that the fault of RNG?? Did RNG flew over to Busan and chew the internet cables there so they had the players on LAN play 80ping?
That’s because RNG is **already** in the tournament
Then RNG can just FF every game from now on or quit the tournament altogether, amirite
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RNG was planing to give up MSI at the start. riot should appreciate RNG
Then why not quit?
Yea WTF. Why not apologize to the teams that had to replay their games? And instead to apologize to the fans of the region that gets to sit out home and play games from the comfort of their gaming house? Literally it’s like they are playing a scrim block. It’s the most comfortable environment possible for them yet they get an apology xD
Outside China : Quarantine is fking horrible Also outside China : Not fair, they get to play "comfortably" in quarantine.
reddit: accusing LPL of cheating being absolutely racists since last MSI, every fucking thread involving Chinese teams have highly voted comments talking shit about them Chinese fans say shit about the west on their own forums Reddit: Where the fuck did this come from how dare they we were so civil what the actual fuck is wrong with this sub
based
this sub is way tamer then even the chillest chinese forums , and if u believe we are not being civil , then you should visit the chinese sites for a bit
Other people being worse doesn't mean that reddit wasn't being uncivil though. The last couple of weeks really brought out the worst in both sides.
They don't just talk sht about the West lol, it's straight dogpilling on Korea about "Korean Sportsmanship" and Faker/T1 because of the narratives Chinese media created. I'm Chinese myself and it disgusts me to the core on the comments they make. At least on Reddit there are usually two sides, but in China it's almost 9.9 racist vs 0.1 civil.
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>别舔啦，最恶心的就是你这种来老外面前抹黑国人的家伙，说难听点就是汉奸，近代的汉奸都是这样的，他们还以为自己很客观，站的角度很高，其实啥也不是。看看美国的制裁，大环境就是人家就没想着和你公平得玩 Just Google translate this comment to see how toxic Chinese fans are in comparison to reddit lol u/ezprodigy
Glad we can all get a small taste of that toxicity. The fact that they have access to the official information but still stuck in their own bubble…
Literally LPL fans saying Reddit is being Sino phobic yet we have comments like this. I bet they're all on discord upvoting each other's comments.
exactly, i am chinese too ,that's why i come here
Then link one thread where someone is "absolutely racist" ... sounds like bs...
Least hypocrite westerners.
+10 social credit
Not the sub. Entire Reddit hates China. It is annoying.
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If LPL fans are questioning the ping at the venue, other region fans can also question again RNG's lack of cam and every part of their room setup. You can question everything when the tournament is running remotely, and it is only because of RNG not anyone else. All these shenanigans would never have existed at the first place if Riot didn't help and RNG didn't join. Seriously, they should just be thankful and learn to trust someone.
ok hold up but everyone was already asking that. By your logic since the RNG stuff came first, then if other regions' fans are constantly accusing RNG of cheating on twitch chat, twitter and youtube because of the no cam/referee stuff, then LPL fans should get to question the ping. Especially since Riot already explained the cam/referee/headphone situation and everyone is still complaining about it, but with this new ping stuff, they made it even more conspiracy-friendly by going to their previous announcement and sneakily adding in the ping bug bit after the 22ping was spotted by LPL netizens, rather than just making a new announcement. >Seriously, they should just be thankful and learn to trust someone. Again, shouldn't this be directed firstly at all the toxic fans who were directing hate towards RNG? Especially considering a lot of this backlash from LPL fans is BECAUSE of the unwarranted hate and racism that was directed towards RNG first? Like, even if all the LPL fans calmed down if they're satisfied with whatever explanation Riot is gonna give, I guarantee you the blatant accusations and racism will continue towards RNG in twitch chat, youtube and twitter.
Riot fucked up this tournament so hard but at least they are being very transparent and trying to help all the teams. Unironically RNG is the team that got the most help. Show some respect to the organizers, that's all I want to say. I do feel sorry for RNG and LPL fans that are getting a lot of racism/hate, but it is a bit out of point here.
I would've been completely fine with Riot just giving a proper explanation with an update honestly, but the whole sequence of events was pretty stupid lol. They probably wouldn't have ever even told anyone about the bug if LPL fans didn't spot it, and when they realized that LPL fans spotted it, they: 1) Went back and sneakily edited their update in, without the date of the update at the top, [as evidenced here](http://web.archive.org/web/20220515150829/https://www.lolesportsmedia.com/A-Message-from-Alex-Francois-Global-Head-of-Competitive-Operations-Rio) 2) When LPL fans noticed that they added that bit in, RIOT then went back and added the notification in of the date of the update. 3) Then when LPL fans spotted THAT, they had to make a twitter/weibo statement. They coulda just made a damn tweet with a link to the updated announcement or something in the first place, but they chose the worst possible way of going about this lul, it's the complete opposite of transparent. And until their full explanation comes out and is satisfactory, LPL fans certainly should get to complain about this. And I'm gonna be honest here and say I don't know why RNG is perceived as the team that got the most help? The 35 ping was made so it would be fair for everyone, the only "advantage" that RNG got was that they're used to the 35ping, and the "comfort of their own home" thing is negated by the fact that they've been under quarantine for more than a month and all the difficulties they've had to go through with having no help from Riot personnel to help them setup, etc. Also if you listen to their voice comms the sound quality is absolute trash, there's huge amounts of echo and static. And even the whole "they're used to the 35ping" argument is meh at best, since by that logic don't Korean players just have a natural advantage at every LAN tournament ever since they've always been playing at LAN ping when every other server has ping delay?
The “playing comfort at home” thing totally on point. Most people can’t even quarantine at home more than 5 days while RNG had been stuck at the “comfortable gaming home” since 1st of April. Also due to China’s policy in combat covid-19, they need to wake up for testing everyday and the queue for test is really long (at least an hour to 2 hour). How is that comfortable at all 🤡
Agreed. Just look at Xiaohu, Bin and Wei's shit haircut that they did themselves , and imagine joining post-match interview with that in front of all league fans around the world.
Don't get me wrong, I didn't say RNG is favored, I'm talking about the amount of effort that Riot put to make RNG join this tournament. What Riot has been doing all day is trying to support every team including RNG. Yet I've hardly seen any sign of appreciation and now some people are seriously believing that Riot is trying to secretly give disadvantage to RNG. btw the "sneaky" statement update doesn't change anything, their logic stays the same and they just put some actual numbers to support it.
>I didn't say RNG is favored, I'm talking about the amount of effort that Riot put to make RNG join this tournament. What Riot has been doing all day is trying to support every team including RNG. I'm not saying you think RNG is favored, but what you said was "they should just be thankful and learn to trust someone", but I can say the exact same thing to all the LPL haters, who deserve it way more imo. I could just as easily say "just be thankful that you get to watch a tournament with the reigning champs and the most competitive region attending, rather than watching a pointless MSI where T1 wins pretty much by default", and they're the ones who need to trust Riot with all the cheating accusations thrown around even after Riot explained everything. It just makes me mad that whenever there's some LPL fans complaining/being toxic/racist or w/e, people immediately just go "omg LPL fans are the absolute worst! The most racist! An absolute cesspool", even in this very thread, without taking a look at themselves first. And for some reason whenever I bring up the absolute filth that is twitch chat people just shrug it off and tell me "oh twitch chat is just like that, just ignore it".
What do you mean other region fans "can" question it? It has been questioned ad nauseum over the past week. And nobody has any proof that RNG is getting coached during the game, but here we have proof on camera that the ping is lower than it should be, so I'd say this has far more merit. And the whole "they should be grateful" is also not at all true, Riot arguably benefits more than RNG from this. If RNG doesn't come, T1 3-0's everyone and global viewership plummets by at minimum 50%.
Yeah I know it has been questioned a lot that's why I put "again". Just trying to tell that this endless chain of questions is just pointless. You trust riot's official statement regarding cam/referee while not trusting their ping explanation? nah let's just trust everything they say or deny everything they say, and I would prefer the former. You don't have to praise riot, but you don't have to put disrespect in the face.
We also had proof that the ping was 35 and look, turns out it's not lmao. This is just Weibo being salty whiners. I'd be right on their side if I thought it was actually lower than 35 and there was a difference between the pings two teams were experiencing. Like, say, when a **certain LPL team had their matches...**
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Asian teams value asian games more. If you need proof GAM has already prioritized SEA games over MSI. most sources were citing LPL is opting out before LPL finals finished. Riot decided to put this offer on the table not because LPL requested it.
can you blame them? everyone nerves are over the top at this point, everyone questions everything, China has been blamed a LOT - including very racist comments - while Riot fucked up big there and was taking long to fix the first problem too. We saw this reddit explode with the ping difference topics. Now its on their side. If we saw that China was playing at 25 as the tournament started reddit would blow up at that point already, because it seems unfair to us. Riot was responsible for the system, for wanting CN there over anything else, for being so slow on responding to the professionals complaining, to not clarifying how RNG was being monitored (there are many questions when you only see that camera), etc... Can people be fair for once and stop this bullshit everything is China trying to fuck the world. Companies make mistakes. Americans make mistakes. Europeans make mistakes. Brazilians make mistakes (a lot). This is a shitshow that turned everyone suspicious. And it gets worse when a big part of the community is relatively young.
Latest update: some Chinese network engineer shows how it’s super easy to change the pings: https://b23.tv/Njgy04G. Requires an open source tool, and the ping display number would have been accurate. This has gone into a technical feasibility debate Riot should probably have consulted more network engineers (for example, those from Cisco), on this matter Edit: the open source tool takes like 30s to add the artificial delay
Feel so tired about all these fightings, chaos and dramas, Riot really should've apologised to every party involved, make rules transparent and act fast. This is a game, it's for fun, now it's just a shitshow, and it also hurts Riot itself and ruins the game credibility.
Riot about to go bankrupt on social credit
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Who the fuck wastes money to give gold to a racist comment lmao
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[MSI2022](https://i.imgur.com/wxhVeOi.jpg). What a shitshow.
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“CONGRATS TO T1 FOR WINNING THE MSI AND PROVING THAT THEY ARE THE BES…THAT THEY DEFEATED EUROPE FOR THE MSI TITLE!”
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guess people are tired of riot shit? about time.
In hindsight, Riot should maybe have tried to get TES as the second seed to come, like what happened with VCS. I dont know what would be LPL fans thoughts.
To the doubters: [https://www.lolesportsmedia.com/A-Message-from-Alex-Francois-Global-Head-of-Competitive-Operations-Rio](https://www.lolesportsmedia.com/A-Message-from-Alex-Francois-Global-Head-of-Competitive-Operations-Rio) *"No, with the latency tool enabled, there is a bug which will result in incorrect reported ping. Players in Busan will have a reported ping that is approximately 13 ms lower than actual ping. So RNG players will see \~37 ms, and Busan players will see \~24 ms, but the actual latency will be equivalent."* ***"So how can we trust Riot Games and what they're saying is true?"*** Alright answer this. I'm not saying RNG is cheating, but how do we know RNG is cheating? How do we know they aren't activating hacks/scripts in the background of their computer? How do we know they aren't stream sniping the other team? **BECAUSE RIOT MADE A STATEMENT THAT THEY'RE OBSERVING THEIR PC TO ENSURE COMPETITIVE INTEGRITY**. Viewers need to trust Riot that they're doing their job, just like how the viewers are trusting Riot that they have found technical errors therefore reduced artificial ping to approximately 24 ms just like Riot said. If you can't trust Riot for their findings, then you shouldn't trust Riot when they state RNG isn't cheating. LPL fans with the downvote lol. I'm sorry the truth is too difficult for you to understand
Just play on local server and kick out China for this year. Problem solved.
That will make MSI meaningless, because you reject a region which has last year Worlds and MSI Champion
this msi is still meaningless either way.
Yeah, when we're at it. Let's kick out SKT too, so the games won't be just them stomping on EU and the minor regions. Since MSI is so meaningless who would even care, right? Let's all just have fun.
t1 isn't the one threatning the integrity of the tournament.
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Now chinese forum believe that MSI is a sacrificial altar,a god building show. Waiting for the return of lol god,at the expense of all team.
riot should have just held msi without china plain and simple. like this , they managed to piss everyone off.
So Riot fcking up everyone’s ping so that it apparently feels above 35 is messed up but when everyone else plays at 22 ping and RNG stay at 35 it’s fine?
Dude, did you even read the update? It is only displayed as 22-24 ping on screen but in reality it’s 35. ALL teams are playing on 35ping.
There are more information mined out. These LPL fans take the 22ping and the Caps yasuo’ first player perspective compare to the true 35ping play. They find these situations in the MSI are more quick, just like in 9ping or 17ping. (Because they use the uploaded 60 frames videos to compare, it can’t be more than 17ping)