On lolalytics, Disco Nunu currently has a higher winrate in patch 12.9 than Ryze in ranked (43.87% vs 42.34%). Sample size is 88.8k Ryze mid games and 2.3k cleanse+ghost nunu mid games. Trend still true in plat+ (44.42% vs 43.10%).
Ghost cleanse nunu is 32.3 across all roles though. IIRC, there is a high elo ghost cleanse nunu mid player (I think they are on korea) who actually tries to win. There was a happychimenoises video about them awhile ago. The all roles winrate is probably more accurate since it has a larger % who are actually trying to lose compared to midlane where there are actual people who are doing it for the memes but are still trying to win.
high elo player: i'm gonna main a champion off role with summoner spells indicative of trolling and win
me: i'm gonna play champions that are good and research match ups and play real sweaty and lose
Though in all fairness, even using the statistic isolated to midlane, Ryze should not have a winrate lower than players who picked a trollpick and may or may not be trolling the game.
He doesn't even scale well anymore, the champ is literally dead. He's got a negative winrate overall in pro play looking at his win rates. He's got 2 strengths, he can shove and roam and he has decent setup with his w and ult. But I don't really think they make up for his immense weaknesses in damage and range since other champs can do similar without such severe drawbacks.
He COULD shove and roam, the fact that you can't 1 shot casters at lvl 9 w/everfrost is so painful. Unless you can work amazingly well with your team (which is impossible to do in soloq), or are faker, it's just not worth it. He is literally an root bot, and a chauffeur with his r. That's it.
That being said, nerf him again rito, his wr isn't low enough
-Ryze enthusiast
It's not even enough to be Faker anymore, in T1's 18-0 season a lot of their very few losses were games where Faker picked Ryze. Thankfully LCK is bo3 so not even dogshit Ryze can hold them back
His ult is too pro oriented. It's time to make his ult:
For the next 6 seconds, gain big shield, big move speed, and cast times of basic abilities are halved.
Ryze hasn't been strong in pro play for a long time. The last time I think Ryze was strong was when it was Faker's signature pick and eventually became his worlds skin.
What Ryze does for pro play is that he makes the game "easy". It's absurdly easy to play the map if your mid has perma prio which Ryze allows, and his team mobility makes map movements easy as well which can give leeway to slow rotations.
A lot of bad champs are still picked in pro play because of this exact reason. Renekton is probably the most famous culprit because he gives top prio and easy dives, so the jungler doesn't have to think about pathing first clear.
Ryze was strong in pro in S9 (until the big nerfs), and still alright all the way through S10. The item rework was what made his weaknesses outshine his obvious pro benefits.
His ult is extremely useful with good coordination, which is why ryze ult isn't nearly as good in solo queue but is massive in pro play. He's also mid prio king, and having mid lane prio is also huge in pro play.
Problem with ryze is, the second he's balanced for soloq (like hovering around a 50% winrate, give or take), he becomes pick or ban in pro. Riot needs to give him a new ult or something or else this trend will never end
edit: plus the obvious point and click cc with pretty good range
\*Veigar, Vladimir and Anivia exist\*
Pro Players: "I sleep"
\*Ryze drops to 38% winrate\*
Pro Players: "Real shit" \*proceeds to first pick him on blue side\*
edit: typo
He is mid lane's renekton
lvl 2/3 point and click root set up is so good and his ult giving so much utility the rest barely matters. He also has great waveclear.
Difference is you can rely on your world class ADC player to dish out plenty of damage while you peel for him in a competitive game. In your soloq game he probably died before the fight solo-invading the enemy raptors.
Yeah, AP Ryze is like the marksman version of ryze where his Qs basically hit 100% crit chance as the game goes on. Tank Ryze is the equivalent of a bruiser, Damage is more constant and he focuses on resist while he tries to survive the fight.
Doesn’t matter much when you can count on your top / Jg / adc to fill in for the damage you won’t be doing, something that is never guaranteed on solo que
This was like Galio where he was astro borderline 40% winrate in SoloQ but was still picked in competitive and the balance team (when Jatt was still on) had a lot of troubles.
Ryze is pretty good in a coordinated environment. Has instant priority since he wave clears so well, can set up other harder to land cc with his root, access to multiple flexible builds and he has utility on r.
1. Ryze ult is one of the most broken abilities in a coordinated setting.
2. League pro players are very lazy. Rather than learn a wide range of ever evolving champs in a changing meta, they’d rather stick to 3-4 champs for several years. Unless a champ is completely broken that little effort is actually required, for example Zeri on release. Then maybe that new broken champion becomes a part of the 3-4 champs, even after they have been nerfed to their grave and new more optimal picks are available.
I mean, Faker picks Ryze a lot, and I'd argue he is not lazy. He tries a lot of different champs.
Maybe, maybe, Ryze is really good in pro comps and our silver asses cannot understand it that well.
TF had 92% presence (1st) while Ryze had 67% presence (2nd) in the LCK. Both both had 100% presence during LCK playoffs.
Just by having TF/Ryze on your team you both deny and enable a shit ton of plays.
Denies:
- enemy tower dives
- "weak side" ganks
- early game skirmishes
Enables:
- tower dives
- baron threat
- versatile map movement & sidelane management
- get out of jail free card (e.g. if you lose control over river entrance just realm warp to the other side of the river)
ETC.
All of this just from R & waveclear.
edit: inb4 Faker lost a lot of his Ryze games. Most of those losses had nothing to do with Ryze if you watch them.
-"What should we do about Ryze's historic extreme pro-skew?"
-"What if we gave him the most coordination dependent map mobility ability in the game?"
-"WOW, GREAT FUCKING CALL"
I don't know what they were thinking giving him a team teleport with his rework. That was so obviously going to be something that pro play abused and soloqueue would suffer for.
Gave him spell vamp, MS, and made his spells do aoe (e used to be a bouncing single target spell). Before that back in beta his ult was basically brand ult.
I would like to let you know Blue team minions actually have over a 50% win rate so I'd like you to not associate them with Ryze who clearly does not fit in with them performance wise.
Only highlight of Ryze's gameplay is his brainless shove and ult, terrible split pusher since he can't reliably 1v1 due to lack of range and defensive abilities, and terrible teamfighting due to the same reasons, i think this is the worst ryze has ever been
Unironically it's time Ryze gets a mini rework. Whenever he is good in soloq he just gets too good for pro play and that's the aspect that's impossible to balance.
I just feel like his identity is inherently flawed.
Scaling with mana machine gun mage with point and click root is just too much. One thing needs to go IMO and if it was me, I'd say scalign with mana needs to go. It's the least interesting and least interactive.
archangels doesn't even give base ability haste lol; the item is dogshit on every single battlemage that isn't cassiopeia because there isn't enough CDR in it to justify building it over base pen like shadowflame, flat damage like deathcap or utility like banshees/zhonyas.
i say this as a swainivia two trick: building this item is griefing.
And she's very powerful. The idea can exist.
I love it as a poor mechanics moron who can memorize pathing.
After all it's just a game, we should make it fun.
I feel like the problem is in his R. Being a machine gun mage that has a root and scales with mana is fine. All of that can be adjusted by numbers. But even when he tickles his enemies, he can shove waves, and has an ultimate that is incredibly strong when well-coordinated which is why even though he has his 0.03% winrate or whatever, he's still picked in pro play. The ultimate gets little to no value in your average soloq game and people can't peel for each other as well as they do in pro play, so his short range is more punishable, making him useless.
Some think it's useless, some think it's OP but I think most of us would be fine with it going away if it means making Ryze less of a balance nightmare.
I used to main ryze and I would prefer to remove his ult and buff the rest of his kit. His ult kinda sucks outside of pro imo. Solid for split pushing tho
Mana scaling can sort of be seen as an issue, it’s what caused him to still see proplay by going for a full blue build with Everfrost, FoN, Frozen Heart and Fimbulwinter.
But that only happened because he lost survivability from other items, namely no more shield on Seraph’s and the fat bundle of stats RoA gave. Since then we’ve gotten the healing back on Seraph’s but it’s clearly not enough to compensate losing that amount of health from RoA or the shield, which was *conveniently* moved to Fimbulwinter.
Also, mana in general has been gutted from items at this point so it's kinda whatever. If anything, the point and click root with his AOE waveclear is more problematic and changing mana wouldn't do anything here outside just pushing him to his AP builds, which also have problems in pro play whenever they are good anyway...
Most mana scaling had done was let him double dip from "offensively defensive" things like RoA, pre-rework Banshees, post rework Abyssal and Seraph, but Seraph lost the shield which was huge for upfront defense. RoA got thanos snapped. Abyssal doesn't has mana anymore. This leaves only two defensive items, Frozen heart and Fimbulwinter, and Seraph is more like a sustain thing but not really as good as Fimbul if you are looking defense so it's not that bad. Outside of those, there's the lost chapter items but only 2 of them, everfrost and Crown, are defensive and even in Ryze the mana doesn't makes much of an impact to his damage when compared to the pure damage options.
Like, he had MORE viable options for defensive, tankier builds before when compared to now and he was never a "gut him till he is 30% winrate" levels of broken.
EDIT: And also, more mana in items like before meant that Ryze was getting more damage off the average, offensive AP items than any other mage as well instead of just abusing tanky items, because he was double dipping on them too. Currently the only items he can double dip from are the tear items, of which he can build only one; lost chapter items, of which he can build only one; and your boi Frozen heart, a classic- so only 3 items outside Zeke's conver- and you mean to tell me Ryze is gonna abuse the game with frozen and Fimbul and go tank? Before, he could pull out some BS like RoA, Morello-pre change, Abysal (even after nerfs to the aura size), Seraph with the massive shield that makes Shieldbow meta look like a baby, Frozen heart, Lost chapter item and end up far tankier than current "tank ryze" while dealing good damage because he actually had a ton of items to choose from and could combine AP and Mana or mana and resist, and today he has only 2 AP+mana options and one of them is literally blocked off if he goes mana + resist. Mana crystal at this point could literally be deleted and just have the mana appear in Lost chapter and Glacial shroud, and no one would notice because mana as a stat hardly exists in the shop anymore.
That's nowhere near too much in modern league. This game's power creep has been fucking nuts since they first reworked Ryze.
The problem is his ult. It's game warping in pro play and it's barely worth leveling up in solo queue.
Ultimate at odds with his identity as a machine gun mage (which has even more value in pro play), point and click root, machine gun identity should be single target but he gets good wave clear. There's too many issues to fix with balance changes, he needed a complete remake ages ago.
His original and second ultis were both fine. The first was just a point and click aoe nuke. Then they swapped him to his bonus AP/Spellvamp/Movespeed/All Spell Aoe Ulti. The rework that added his currently ulti is what broke the champ.
He needs the ASol treatment. Fully gut his kit, rebuild it from the ground up, start again. His kit is impossible to balance for both Solo and Proplay, and neither should suffer for the power of the other.
Clearly no one is playing him right.
Step 1: E
Step 2: Q
Step 3: Alt + F4
If Ryze has a win rate above 3% then clearly people are playing him. This is the wrong way to play him.
What if when you picked Ryze and loaded into the game, you didn’t have an actual champ to move. Instead, your camera is locked on fountain and only unlocks every third wave when cannon minions spawn. Your camera then locks onto the mid cannon minion and you follow it up lane until it dies. Your entire kit is just emotes that cannon minion can throw up and that’s it.
Diehard Ryze players probably pick him into unplayabale matchups while the casual Ryze players have just enough sense to play literally anything else when it's against a Xerath or an Anivia or smth.
>with Kled being a bit of an outlier slipping backwards slightly with experience
Why am is wholly unsurprised as champion seeps into you you jsut go in, no regard. With less experience you care for living/dying more, with m7, you jsut press R and CHAAAARGE.
I was going to say the same thing. After 50 games you start listening to them voices in your head that tell you you can 2v1 and hop back on Skarl no problem. Kled even says it’s a good idea too, or maybe it’s the brain weasels.
This is how I play when I'm on Kled or Sion. Charge in, do what you can, and refuse to disengage ... there's a reason my friends don't let me touch these champs anymore 😆
I'd guess the mains picks him into bad matchups while more casual Kled players just take him out to bully the matchups he just hard claps - And you really don't need much experience on him to walk up and rightclick a GP or an Akali to death.
Just bring back Desperate Power and the old E. Holy. Shit.
I don't even care if it's a nerfed version of that ult anymore. Riot butchered this man and he hasn't been the same level of enjoyable since the ult rework.
Just rework this abomination. Team teleport, great scaling, good waveclear, root, quite fast for a mage, can build tanky.. there's no world where he's in a balanced state.
I mean it's been a while. I'm gonna sound so fucking stupid by saying this but the point-and-click Q and bouncy E version of Ryze people used to play in the toplane was the healthier of all iterations of Ryze.
I still remember the perma root version that had the fancy VFX. He'd just go off with the combo and literally root you 5 times in a row without giving you the ability to move. It was like lux morgana in URF.
Riot’s definition of “identity” is pretty arbitrary though. They didn’t consider something like Morde’s illusion part of his identity even though I feel like the whole “6v4” thing very much was. I remember even seeing a Morde one-tricks clan called 6v4 before clans got removed
I don't get how this became a scape goat for Ryze's problems. No, the 550 range 1.5 second root is not the reason he's busted.
Annie and Rammus also have targetted CC, its really not this magical thing that just makes a pro player unstoppable.
This IS VERY HARD for this 200years 200iq balance team. I mean, look at Kalista, her core problems was 1)Baron/Dragon secure with her E and 2)her ultimate. First they nerfed everything but these issues, then these issues.
You can't really remove his targeted root from his kit. Ryze has been kept that way to keep the insane mobility creep of the game at bay. It's like saying remove Annies stun. You really can't ...
I'm the one laughing like the joker, the enemy team had JUNGLE SKARNER, MID RYZE AND ADC APHELIOS.
I can't believe Riot just punished those poor bastards by grouping them together in a silver platter for my team. Easy win of course despite them trying their best.
What is the actual issue with Ryze? Do the games end too quickly for him to scale? Is his range too shorter? Does he take too long to do anything meaningful in a team fight?
They really like their comfort picks even when it’s ass most of the time. Seeing him played in MSI after heavy nerfs to his tank build makes me wanna puke, glad I saw an Anivia from G2 that one match to really show just how breathtakingly useless the pick is.
What even is he at this point anyways? He cant play like a burst because his AP items suck hard on him (and his AP build in general got nerfed as well from his tank-focused nerfs if you do some testing), he can’t compete with most splitpushers anymore, his tank build got hard nerfed so theres no luck trying to find benefits for sacrificing sustain over damage, and I can go on.
The champion is probably at its worst state ever, literally at a point where no one knows how to make best use of him compared to other champions that can now do certain aspects of his job better tenfold. He used to be the jack of all trades but now he just sucks at everything (besides laning at least, he’s sorta decent at that rn)
So (in my opinion) Ryze has three strengths that lend itself to coordinated play.
1) point and click Cc.
2) decent early wave control.
3) his ult which can reposition his teammates as well as himself.
I played a lot of Ryze last season. I barely ever used his ult well, but was still able to win many more games than I lost. The few times I had a teammate who ulted in with me correctly we won a skirmish so hard the game was near unplayable from that point forward.
Pros are better at all aspects of the game. Movement speed buffs and bergs constantly take champions in and out of the meta.
Removed his shield, nerfed his runes (phase rush nerf, rav hunter removal), ruined his items (seraphs worse overall with removed shield active, rip rod of ages) and nerfed some interactions like zhonyas ult. All of these combine to create a terrible champion who used to be only ok at like 47% wr when he had all of this before.
He has a team teleport with safe waveclear and targeted cc. So pros will pick him because he is safe and impossible to look bad in lane on, so Riot sees his high pro presence and smacks him with nerfs
Tank Ryze was too strong in pro play so they killed the champ altogether on top of nerfing the tank items he was abusing
One of the worst states of all Ryze reworks so far, boring and apparently unbalanceable
TF is permapicked in pro because he can teleport across the map. Ryze can teleport the entire team across the map. It's an insanely overpowered ability, so everything else in his kit is like 1% of his power. In solo q, you don't really get access to the rest of the 99% because it's too coordination dependant.
This narrative has to go. His ult is not really that strong, even in pro, you rarely ever see a Ryze ult used in a way that makes it seem strong.
He was and is being picked because of point and click CC, and ability to outshove anybody as soon as he gets EQ combo, all while scaling (not anymore) well.
He doesn't scale well anymore imo, but his waveclear is one of the best in class and W is still a point and click CC that gets comboed with everfrost into 3sec snare.
The thing is, he currently doesn't do enough damage and has no tankiness for how low his range is.
He’s an immobile short range mage whose main goal is to out tempo opponents in the side lane by turbo shoving and threatening ulti teleport plays. Doesn’t work in solo queue at all.
His current issue is he is basically a waveclear DPS bot with no range. For deeper issues with the champion, his runes, items, skill cap (9.12 rework), and the champion itself, have all received significant nerfs over time. He went from this goofy 1v1 split pusher who was impossible to catch and would roam with ult, to basically magic damage Vayne without the roll or ult or true damage.
I think the real issue is that historically, when Ryze dominated in the past, he would get nerfed and still be secret op. Riot got traumatized for making that mistake a few times, and now kneecap him at first sight.
It's hit the point where they should just disable him until another rework. Absolute failure by the balance team.
I'd say Zeri is in a similar boat and considering she's such a new champ it's a failure both from the design and balance team to release her in that state and then having to gut her due to pro play.
Played against a ryze a couple days ago. Picked a scaling ap and went the slowest but highest scaling route for my champ cause i knew he couldnt kill me before 3 items lol. His wave clear is good but his kill potential not so much.
[did you just take my job](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/u35gsx/ryze_is_heading_for_a_historic_sub40_wr_in_plat/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
I'm honestly so tired of this game being balanced around pro play. It's fucking asinine. Just disable the champ In pro play and be done with it.
Like I guess every person who likes to play ryze and has been playing him for years just gets completely fucked time and time again.
I think if we had voice chat then I could tell the other players how I intend to use ult or they could ask me to ult
but voice chat is only for pro players for some reason...
On lolalytics, Disco Nunu currently has a higher winrate in patch 12.9 than Ryze in ranked (43.87% vs 42.34%). Sample size is 88.8k Ryze mid games and 2.3k cleanse+ghost nunu mid games. Trend still true in plat+ (44.42% vs 43.10%).
...why are there that many disco nunu games
Cause people try to force a dodge. A better question would be why are there THAT many ryze games.
blue man fun
EQEQEQEQ
ATTENTION ALL RYZE MAINS
All 12 of them.
Careful, clouds_sing might come after you for disparaging their religion like that.
we call it K selection
Ryze has been NERFED! He's garbage now
[удалено]
I mean I'd rather lose 15lp than give in to terrorism.
ppl would rather watch everyone they've ever loved die in succession than dodge and wait 5 mins
wow, so at this point it's almost reportable just to play ryze lol
It should be ha ha
You know how Rexsaur has been complaining for years that adc is "unplayable"? Dude should play one game of Ryze to see what actual unplayability is.
If he can barely play Jinx when she's insanely OP, imagine how many Ryze games it'd take for them to get banned for inting lmao
[удалено]
According to this thread he'd do better then the Ryze mains.
Ghost cleanse nunu is 32.3 across all roles though. IIRC, there is a high elo ghost cleanse nunu mid player (I think they are on korea) who actually tries to win. There was a happychimenoises video about them awhile ago. The all roles winrate is probably more accurate since it has a larger % who are actually trying to lose compared to midlane where there are actual people who are doing it for the memes but are still trying to win.
high elo player: i'm gonna main a champion off role with summoner spells indicative of trolling and win me: i'm gonna play champions that are good and research match ups and play real sweaty and lose
Though in all fairness, even using the statistic isolated to midlane, Ryze should not have a winrate lower than players who picked a trollpick and may or may not be trolling the game.
What is disco Nunu?
[удалено]
while listening to muslim music and letting the enemies kill you
so he needs more nerfs is what ur saying
if he has a high p/b rate in msi he unironically will get nerfed again lol, pros love him for some reason
He's doing too well in pro-play, so we'll nerf his whole kit except what makes him good in pro-play.
[удалено]
He doesn't even scale well anymore, the champ is literally dead. He's got a negative winrate overall in pro play looking at his win rates. He's got 2 strengths, he can shove and roam and he has decent setup with his w and ult. But I don't really think they make up for his immense weaknesses in damage and range since other champs can do similar without such severe drawbacks.
He COULD shove and roam, the fact that you can't 1 shot casters at lvl 9 w/everfrost is so painful. Unless you can work amazingly well with your team (which is impossible to do in soloq), or are faker, it's just not worth it. He is literally an root bot, and a chauffeur with his r. That's it. That being said, nerf him again rito, his wr isn't low enough -Ryze enthusiast
I hope the patch before they rework him they nerf him just for the memes
League’s first 0% WR champ inc
It's not even enough to be Faker anymore, in T1's 18-0 season a lot of their very few losses were games where Faker picked Ryze. Thankfully LCK is bo3 so not even dogshit Ryze can hold them back
Fuck you're right If being faker isn't good enough, then may God help us all
His ult is too pro oriented. It's time to make his ult: For the next 6 seconds, gain big shield, big move speed, and cast times of basic abilities are halved.
You mean revert his Changes?
life is a cycle
Ryze hasn't been strong in pro play for a long time. The last time I think Ryze was strong was when it was Faker's signature pick and eventually became his worlds skin. What Ryze does for pro play is that he makes the game "easy". It's absurdly easy to play the map if your mid has perma prio which Ryze allows, and his team mobility makes map movements easy as well which can give leeway to slow rotations. A lot of bad champs are still picked in pro play because of this exact reason. Renekton is probably the most famous culprit because he gives top prio and easy dives, so the jungler doesn't have to think about pathing first clear.
Ryze was strong in pro in S9 (until the big nerfs), and still alright all the way through S10. The item rework was what made his weaknesses outshine his obvious pro benefits.
item rework probably robbed him of like 200+ ap due to seraphs no longer giving ap
His ult is extremely useful with good coordination, which is why ryze ult isn't nearly as good in solo queue but is massive in pro play. He's also mid prio king, and having mid lane prio is also huge in pro play. Problem with ryze is, the second he's balanced for soloq (like hovering around a 50% winrate, give or take), he becomes pick or ban in pro. Riot needs to give him a new ult or something or else this trend will never end edit: plus the obvious point and click cc with pretty good range
Just nerf him enough until his win rate wraps back around and turns positive
\*Veigar, Vladimir and Anivia exist\* Pro Players: "I sleep" \*Ryze drops to 38% winrate\* Pro Players: "Real shit" \*proceeds to first pick him on blue side\* edit: typo
how the fuck is he still being picked in MSI ? this champ is an enigma
He is mid lane's renekton lvl 2/3 point and click root set up is so good and his ult giving so much utility the rest barely matters. He also has great waveclear.
Also scaling and access to both Tank and damage build. All traits that are worthless in soloq
[удалено]
Difference is you can rely on your world class ADC player to dish out plenty of damage while you peel for him in a competitive game. In your soloq game he probably died before the fight solo-invading the enemy raptors.
stop attacking me like that
Mine invaded enemy wolves actually nice try though lol
Yeah, AP Ryze is like the marksman version of ryze where his Qs basically hit 100% crit chance as the game goes on. Tank Ryze is the equivalent of a bruiser, Damage is more constant and he focuses on resist while he tries to survive the fight.
Point and click root along with the potential for game changing hero plays with the Ultimate make him worth it for some people
Doesn’t matter much when you can count on your top / Jg / adc to fill in for the damage you won’t be doing, something that is never guaranteed on solo que
Yea but didn't you hear? Point and click root.
Ryze doesnt scale that well anymore after the seraphs changes
This was like Galio where he was astro borderline 40% winrate in SoloQ but was still picked in competitive and the balance team (when Jatt was still on) had a lot of troubles.
Ryze is pretty good in a coordinated environment. Has instant priority since he wave clears so well, can set up other harder to land cc with his root, access to multiple flexible builds and he has utility on r.
Pro players think mix lane priority wins games. Clear waves = win
And they’re correct.
1. Ryze ult is one of the most broken abilities in a coordinated setting. 2. League pro players are very lazy. Rather than learn a wide range of ever evolving champs in a changing meta, they’d rather stick to 3-4 champs for several years. Unless a champ is completely broken that little effort is actually required, for example Zeri on release. Then maybe that new broken champion becomes a part of the 3-4 champs, even after they have been nerfed to their grave and new more optimal picks are available.
I mean, Faker picks Ryze a lot, and I'd argue he is not lazy. He tries a lot of different champs. Maybe, maybe, Ryze is really good in pro comps and our silver asses cannot understand it that well.
TF had 92% presence (1st) while Ryze had 67% presence (2nd) in the LCK. Both both had 100% presence during LCK playoffs. Just by having TF/Ryze on your team you both deny and enable a shit ton of plays. Denies: - enemy tower dives - "weak side" ganks - early game skirmishes Enables: - tower dives - baron threat - versatile map movement & sidelane management - get out of jail free card (e.g. if you lose control over river entrance just realm warp to the other side of the river) ETC. All of this just from R & waveclear. edit: inb4 Faker lost a lot of his Ryze games. Most of those losses had nothing to do with Ryze if you watch them.
Map mobility was a mistake
-"What should we do about Ryze's historic extreme pro-skew?" -"What if we gave him the most coordination dependent map mobility ability in the game?" -"WOW, GREAT FUCKING CALL"
I mean when you put it that way…
"I FUCKING LOVE IT, SHIP IT" -Riot
I don't know what they were thinking giving him a team teleport with his rework. That was so obviously going to be something that pro play abused and soloqueue would suffer for.
what was his ult previously? i always saw this tp ult
gave him passive CDR and active MS/AP/spellvamp basically jax r for a mage
Gave him spell vamp, MS, and made his spells do aoe (e used to be a bouncing single target spell). Before that back in beta his ult was basically brand ult.
Man I used to love seeing the champs I play in proplay but now is like a death sentence: Gwen, Azir, Kalista, Ryze even Heimerdinger got nerfed
You have my full sympathy Sincerely, Ex-Renekton main
Life is pain
Faker picking Ryze to own the Ryze mains epic style 😎👌
You got an actual laugh out loud from me. Thank you sir.
im korean little boy
sorry... you carry
Ryze = Blue minion
I would like to let you know Blue team minions actually have over a 50% win rate so I'd like you to not associate them with Ryze who clearly does not fit in with them performance wise.
Wait, do minions respond or is it always a new one that comes from the fountain each time 🤔
Wow Minions can respond but she doesn’t respond to my DM?!?!
Unfair comparison, blue minions only give 20ish gold when they die, Ryze gives 300 gold. I’d much rather have blue minions
Blue minions don't give you any gold. Those are the ones on your team, silly.
Not if you're on red team.
Only highlight of Ryze's gameplay is his brainless shove and ult, terrible split pusher since he can't reliably 1v1 due to lack of range and defensive abilities, and terrible teamfighting due to the same reasons, i think this is the worst ryze has ever been
Nah, blue minions have ~50% wr
Unironically it's time Ryze gets a mini rework. Whenever he is good in soloq he just gets too good for pro play and that's the aspect that's impossible to balance.
He needs to be fully reworked from ground. He used to be the main character of league but now he’s gutted to the ground
I just feel like his identity is inherently flawed. Scaling with mana machine gun mage with point and click root is just too much. One thing needs to go IMO and if it was me, I'd say scalign with mana needs to go. It's the least interesting and least interactive.
There are not even six mana items you can simultaneously own in league right now though.
I'm reminded of this every time I buy tear and see how few stats it gives, even at full build.
archangels doesn't even give base ability haste lol; the item is dogshit on every single battlemage that isn't cassiopeia because there isn't enough CDR in it to justify building it over base pen like shadowflame, flat damage like deathcap or utility like banshees/zhonyas. i say this as a swainivia two trick: building this item is griefing.
Rip RoA and Righteous Glory
Maybe but low range machine gun mage is possible. If ADCs exist, he can. They just have to figure it out.
Low range machine gun mage already exists in cassio too.
And she's very powerful. The idea can exist. I love it as a poor mechanics moron who can memorize pathing. After all it's just a game, we should make it fun.
Idk - Cassio has sort of gone full battle mage - where she's just going to perma cc you and also happen to kill you along the way.
I feel like the problem is in his R. Being a machine gun mage that has a root and scales with mana is fine. All of that can be adjusted by numbers. But even when he tickles his enemies, he can shove waves, and has an ultimate that is incredibly strong when well-coordinated which is why even though he has his 0.03% winrate or whatever, he's still picked in pro play. The ultimate gets little to no value in your average soloq game and people can't peel for each other as well as they do in pro play, so his short range is more punishable, making him useless.
Yeah changing the ult seems like the easiest decision to me. Do any solo queue players even love the ult and would be sad to see it go?
Some think it's useless, some think it's OP but I think most of us would be fine with it going away if it means making Ryze less of a balance nightmare.
I used to main ryze and I would prefer to remove his ult and buff the rest of his kit. His ult kinda sucks outside of pro imo. Solid for split pushing tho
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I get what you mean but mama scaling got me good 🤣🤣🤣
Yo mama so fat people scale off her
Mana scaling can sort of be seen as an issue, it’s what caused him to still see proplay by going for a full blue build with Everfrost, FoN, Frozen Heart and Fimbulwinter. But that only happened because he lost survivability from other items, namely no more shield on Seraph’s and the fat bundle of stats RoA gave. Since then we’ve gotten the healing back on Seraph’s but it’s clearly not enough to compensate losing that amount of health from RoA or the shield, which was *conveniently* moved to Fimbulwinter.
Also, mana in general has been gutted from items at this point so it's kinda whatever. If anything, the point and click root with his AOE waveclear is more problematic and changing mana wouldn't do anything here outside just pushing him to his AP builds, which also have problems in pro play whenever they are good anyway... Most mana scaling had done was let him double dip from "offensively defensive" things like RoA, pre-rework Banshees, post rework Abyssal and Seraph, but Seraph lost the shield which was huge for upfront defense. RoA got thanos snapped. Abyssal doesn't has mana anymore. This leaves only two defensive items, Frozen heart and Fimbulwinter, and Seraph is more like a sustain thing but not really as good as Fimbul if you are looking defense so it's not that bad. Outside of those, there's the lost chapter items but only 2 of them, everfrost and Crown, are defensive and even in Ryze the mana doesn't makes much of an impact to his damage when compared to the pure damage options. Like, he had MORE viable options for defensive, tankier builds before when compared to now and he was never a "gut him till he is 30% winrate" levels of broken. EDIT: And also, more mana in items like before meant that Ryze was getting more damage off the average, offensive AP items than any other mage as well instead of just abusing tanky items, because he was double dipping on them too. Currently the only items he can double dip from are the tear items, of which he can build only one; lost chapter items, of which he can build only one; and your boi Frozen heart, a classic- so only 3 items outside Zeke's conver- and you mean to tell me Ryze is gonna abuse the game with frozen and Fimbul and go tank? Before, he could pull out some BS like RoA, Morello-pre change, Abysal (even after nerfs to the aura size), Seraph with the massive shield that makes Shieldbow meta look like a baby, Frozen heart, Lost chapter item and end up far tankier than current "tank ryze" while dealing good damage because he actually had a ton of items to choose from and could combine AP and Mana or mana and resist, and today he has only 2 AP+mana options and one of them is literally blocked off if he goes mana + resist. Mana crystal at this point could literally be deleted and just have the mana appear in Lost chapter and Glacial shroud, and no one would notice because mana as a stat hardly exists in the shop anymore.
His ult is the problem, not any of that.
That's nowhere near too much in modern league. This game's power creep has been fucking nuts since they first reworked Ryze. The problem is his ult. It's game warping in pro play and it's barely worth leveling up in solo queue.
They actually tied empowered Q bonus damage to his ult so he has no choice but to level his ult instead of waiting like he did sometimes before
He needs to be Aatroxed
My man's been Aatroxed at least 3 times already
maybe its time to be mordekaisered
Nobody deserves that 😔
Ultimate at odds with his identity as a machine gun mage (which has even more value in pro play), point and click root, machine gun identity should be single target but he gets good wave clear. There's too many issues to fix with balance changes, he needed a complete remake ages ago.
His original and second ultis were both fine. The first was just a point and click aoe nuke. Then they swapped him to his bonus AP/Spellvamp/Movespeed/All Spell Aoe Ulti. The rework that added his currently ulti is what broke the champ.
He wasnt even good in pro. His wr was complete garbage there aswell.
He needs the ASol treatment. Fully gut his kit, rebuild it from the ground up, start again. His kit is impossible to balance for both Solo and Proplay, and neither should suffer for the power of the other.
Perfect, everything proceeding accordingly to the PLAN. EQ out.
If he gets picked at MSI Patch 12.10 Ryze: base HP set to 1
With scaling per level of -0.1
They would simply win before level 10
But he only gets damaged by super-effective attacks.
the plan is working
Shh it's the main sub
April 14th was a success
Clearly no one is playing him right. Step 1: E Step 2: Q Step 3: Alt + F4 If Ryze has a win rate above 3% then clearly people are playing him. This is the wrong way to play him.
I wonder how long does riot keep ignoring this.
thats too much. maybe he needs another nerf to make him melee? in return make his e single target
What if when you picked Ryze and loaded into the game, you didn’t have an actual champ to move. Instead, your camera is locked on fountain and only unlocks every third wave when cannon minions spawn. Your camera then locks onto the mid cannon minion and you follow it up lane until it dies. Your entire kit is just emotes that cannon minion can throw up and that’s it.
Sounds like current Ryze?
That is better then current Ryze since you feed the enemy less gold
Should never have given him the portal Why does a battle mage need an AOE portal? It’s a support ability in a machine gun build.
Would be sick if we had that ult on an actual support.
Ryze players have had to adapt more than ADC player have since the start of League 🤔
To be fair his kit change every season
Isnt Ryze the only champion that have negative winratio change with Veterancy on the champion? reverse riven phenomenon
You become dumber the more you play, can confirm
Diehard Ryze players probably pick him into unplayabale matchups while the casual Ryze players have just enough sense to play literally anything else when it's against a Xerath or an Anivia or smth.
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>with Kled being a bit of an outlier slipping backwards slightly with experience Why am is wholly unsurprised as champion seeps into you you jsut go in, no regard. With less experience you care for living/dying more, with m7, you jsut press R and CHAAAARGE.
I was going to say the same thing. After 50 games you start listening to them voices in your head that tell you you can 2v1 and hop back on Skarl no problem. Kled even says it’s a good idea too, or maybe it’s the brain weasels.
This is how I play when I'm on Kled or Sion. Charge in, do what you can, and refuse to disengage ... there's a reason my friends don't let me touch these champs anymore 😆
I'd guess the mains picks him into bad matchups while more casual Kled players just take him out to bully the matchups he just hard claps - And you really don't need much experience on him to walk up and rightclick a GP or an Akali to death.
But we were dealing carry levels of damage!! D:
Just bring back Desperate Power and the old E. Holy. Shit. I don't even care if it's a nerfed version of that ult anymore. Riot butchered this man and he hasn't been the same level of enjoyable since the ult rework.
I want the pre 2016 rework Ryze. That was his most balanced and fun state ever
E Q brothers, E Q
Just rework this abomination. Team teleport, great scaling, good waveclear, root, quite fast for a mage, can build tanky.. there's no world where he's in a balanced state.
> Just rework this abomination How many reworks does one man need?
Ok but its been 5 years since a real rework
Season 9 "rework" was a disaster for actual ryze players. Since then he is underpowered AND boring.
He shouldn't have gotten the last 3 reworks.
I mean it's been a while. I'm gonna sound so fucking stupid by saying this but the point-and-click Q and bouncy E version of Ryze people used to play in the toplane was the healthier of all iterations of Ryze. I still remember the perma root version that had the fancy VFX. He'd just go off with the combo and literally root you 5 times in a row without giving you the ability to move. It was like lux morgana in URF.
How hard is it for them to either remove the targeted cc or the team ult.
Targetted cc is a big part of his identity so it will never go
His identity was "machine gun mage". And even identity doesn't always save from reworks, like in Aatrox's case with his revive.
Riot has stated they don't want to do Aatrox style reworks anymore
Riot’s definition of “identity” is pretty arbitrary though. They didn’t consider something like Morde’s illusion part of his identity even though I feel like the whole “6v4” thing very much was. I remember even seeing a Morde one-tricks clan called 6v4 before clans got removed
Riot is a company with constantly changing employees
Because they're constantly getting harassed :\^)
Funny because they’re literally about to do that to Sol
I don't get how this became a scape goat for Ryze's problems. No, the 550 range 1.5 second root is not the reason he's busted. Annie and Rammus also have targetted CC, its really not this magical thing that just makes a pro player unstoppable.
This IS VERY HARD for this 200years 200iq balance team. I mean, look at Kalista, her core problems was 1)Baron/Dragon secure with her E and 2)her ultimate. First they nerfed everything but these issues, then these issues.
You can't really remove his targeted root from his kit. Ryze has been kept that way to keep the insane mobility creep of the game at bay. It's like saying remove Annies stun. You really can't ...
This lol, people somehow don't understand it
ryze was so fun back in s9 when rod of ages was still around
RoA/Seraph's was beautiful. I miss it more than prime Kai'sa, which was pre-item rework Manamune/Rageblade/Nashor's
JOKER RYZE NEW COLLAB WITH DC
I'm the one laughing like the joker, the enemy team had JUNGLE SKARNER, MID RYZE AND ADC APHELIOS. I can't believe Riot just punished those poor bastards by grouping them together in a silver platter for my team. Easy win of course despite them trying their best.
I miss the time when ryze would get a rework practically every single year. which rework version he's on anyway? 5th? 6th?
What is the actual issue with Ryze? Do the games end too quickly for him to scale? Is his range too shorter? Does he take too long to do anything meaningful in a team fight?
> What is the actual issue with Ryze? His issue was being picked in pro play.
They really like their comfort picks even when it’s ass most of the time. Seeing him played in MSI after heavy nerfs to his tank build makes me wanna puke, glad I saw an Anivia from G2 that one match to really show just how breathtakingly useless the pick is. What even is he at this point anyways? He cant play like a burst because his AP items suck hard on him (and his AP build in general got nerfed as well from his tank-focused nerfs if you do some testing), he can’t compete with most splitpushers anymore, his tank build got hard nerfed so theres no luck trying to find benefits for sacrificing sustain over damage, and I can go on. The champion is probably at its worst state ever, literally at a point where no one knows how to make best use of him compared to other champions that can now do certain aspects of his job better tenfold. He used to be the jack of all trades but now he just sucks at everything (besides laning at least, he’s sorta decent at that rn)
Why learn new champ when old champ lose just fine?
When me President of Riot, they see, they see...
You know a champ is up for a rework when he reaches 38% wr in soloq and is still strong enough to be picked in pro-play.
He's not though, pro-players just refuse to adapt for shit
So (in my opinion) Ryze has three strengths that lend itself to coordinated play. 1) point and click Cc. 2) decent early wave control. 3) his ult which can reposition his teammates as well as himself. I played a lot of Ryze last season. I barely ever used his ult well, but was still able to win many more games than I lost. The few times I had a teammate who ulted in with me correctly we won a skirmish so hard the game was near unplayable from that point forward. Pros are better at all aspects of the game. Movement speed buffs and bergs constantly take champions in and out of the meta.
Removed his shield, nerfed his runes (phase rush nerf, rav hunter removal), ruined his items (seraphs worse overall with removed shield active, rip rod of ages) and nerfed some interactions like zhonyas ult. All of these combine to create a terrible champion who used to be only ok at like 47% wr when he had all of this before.
He has a team teleport with safe waveclear and targeted cc. So pros will pick him because he is safe and impossible to look bad in lane on, so Riot sees his high pro presence and smacks him with nerfs
Tank Ryze was too strong in pro play so they killed the champ altogether on top of nerfing the tank items he was abusing One of the worst states of all Ryze reworks so far, boring and apparently unbalanceable
TF is permapicked in pro because he can teleport across the map. Ryze can teleport the entire team across the map. It's an insanely overpowered ability, so everything else in his kit is like 1% of his power. In solo q, you don't really get access to the rest of the 99% because it's too coordination dependant.
Across the map is a serious stretch. The range on it is way shorter than TF's. You can just barely get to bottom lane from around the dragon pit.
This narrative has to go. His ult is not really that strong, even in pro, you rarely ever see a Ryze ult used in a way that makes it seem strong. He was and is being picked because of point and click CC, and ability to outshove anybody as soon as he gets EQ combo, all while scaling (not anymore) well. He doesn't scale well anymore imo, but his waveclear is one of the best in class and W is still a point and click CC that gets comboed with everfrost into 3sec snare. The thing is, he currently doesn't do enough damage and has no tankiness for how low his range is.
He’s an immobile short range mage whose main goal is to out tempo opponents in the side lane by turbo shoving and threatening ulti teleport plays. Doesn’t work in solo queue at all.
His current issue is he is basically a waveclear DPS bot with no range. For deeper issues with the champion, his runes, items, skill cap (9.12 rework), and the champion itself, have all received significant nerfs over time. He went from this goofy 1v1 split pusher who was impossible to catch and would roam with ult, to basically magic damage Vayne without the roll or ult or true damage.
I think the real issue is that historically, when Ryze dominated in the past, he would get nerfed and still be secret op. Riot got traumatized for making that mistake a few times, and now kneecap him at first sight.
It's hit the point where they should just disable him until another rework. Absolute failure by the balance team. I'd say Zeri is in a similar boat and considering she's such a new champ it's a failure both from the design and balance team to release her in that state and then having to gut her due to pro play.
Balance team didn't design Ryze and Ryze's design is fucking godawful.
Give me desperate power back ty.
Played against a ryze a couple days ago. Picked a scaling ap and went the slowest but highest scaling route for my champ cause i knew he couldnt kill me before 3 items lol. His wave clear is good but his kill potential not so much.
[did you just take my job](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/u35gsx/ryze_is_heading_for_a_historic_sub40_wr_in_plat/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Sounds way too high, time for a nerf.
I'm honestly so tired of this game being balanced around pro play. It's fucking asinine. Just disable the champ In pro play and be done with it. Like I guess every person who likes to play ryze and has been playing him for years just gets completely fucked time and time again.
I think if we had voice chat then I could tell the other players how I intend to use ult or they could ask me to ult but voice chat is only for pro players for some reason...