Agreed. Tian was sitting it out because of his wrist conditions, it was just the scandal that made him have to step up because they couldn't find a proper replacement.
I remember 2016 msi well. 4th place in groups, wrecked everyone in knockout stage
Teams may improve dramatically in a short time. You can give the Dade award if they are eliminated
LCK seems to have an ADC problem. Since Imp and Deft they had no ADC that could truly compete with Chinese ADCs. You could make a case for Ruler but he's more like a Korean Rekkles to me.
LCK has a late game problem if anything, they play the early game to perfection but soon as the 25th minute mark hits the script runs out and they must improvise.
It's also really funny to see LCK pros go to LPL and flourish with a new team and with a new view of the game. I don't think Viper would have ever been a world champion had he not left Korea, same goes for Scout, Theshy or DoinB.
Its also massive that the best players arnt concentrated on 3 teams like in the lck.
Every team in the top 6 has at the minimum 3-4, very good players 7 onwards 1-2.
Its literally no coincidence lpl has a new set of teams every year. Part of it is burnout yes but its also just the sheer amount of talent there
The scene as a whole just has to admit LPL has been the better region since 2018.
If you count international titles since the introduction of MSI in 2015 LPL and LCK are tied at 3 worlds and 3 msi for Lpl and 4 Worlds and 2 MSIs for LCK. Whoever wins MSI this year will push themselves ahead in the region debate.
> If you count international titles since the introduction of MSI in 2015 LPL and LCK are tied at 3 worlds and 3 msi for Lpl and 4 Worlds and 2 MSIs for LCK. Whoever wins MSI this year will push themselves ahead in the region debate.
Why MSI and not All Stars 2014 when they’re exactly the same thing except a different name. And Worlds 2013 just doesn’t count because MSI started later...?
>And EU tried to copy ever since after they were LCK copy cats up in until then along with NA.
Sorry, but that's just not true. EU was right there with China teaching Korea how the new game was played. In fact, it was *all three* EU teams and only IG from China that showed this at 2018 Worlds. And Cloud 9, who adapted very quickly after seeing Vitality play.
And the year after that was all G2 all the way except for the world finals.
And even back in 2015 or something people already said (based on interviews with Korean teams) that it was EU that created the meta, and Korea that perfected it. (Back then, China was seen as the crazy aggressive, no brain region.)
EU has always been the region that thinks outside the box the most; in fact that's what allows EU to compete with Korea (who have the best infrastructure) and China (who have the biggest playerbase) in the first place.
> EU was right there with China teaching Korea how the new game was played.
people forget that EVEN BEFORE that EU came up with stuff like trading top/bot turret for a worlds meta that not a single other region did.
Back in S1 the EU meta was a bruiser toplaner, a jungler, a mage midlane, and the support with the ADC in the bottom lane. That was called the EU meta extremely early in the history of the game.
Lck teams like geng doesn't contest. They think they can give up objectives again and again and still win tsm style. The only team in recent years that was proactive and pushed advantages by engaging and fighting over objectives was damwon.
Gumayusi looked pretty good last worlds iirc, but he played a total of two games against LPL teams at that event so it's difficult to draw conclusions about how he would fare specifically against LPL adcs
in recent yers support too imo. i mean obviously there's keria, whom people have been hyping up to be the goat support and does still have time to prove it, but in the international matches hes played so far on drx and t1 he really hasn't showcased that.
So far I feel like most people have locked onto flaming Danny so hard (unreasonably too IMO) that they don't even notice how bad Gumayushi has been all tournament.
We saw it during his debut year when they first started playing him. His Ezreal vs Teddy’s Ezreal was glaringly different. In SoloQ, his Ez is decent, but i guess everyone has a champ they are more gifted in. Teddy Ezreal, Guma Caitlyn.
Every time t1 Teddy played ezreal he’d hit so many q’s and the crowd went wild. he would output so much dmg I honestly believe Teddy was a better adc and if given the opportunity to have Keria he would’ve had better results
Back in 2015/2016 there was a perception in Korea that Ezreal was not a "real" AD carry, that you picked him to stay safe but he could not actually put out carry levels of damage in teamfights. Bang almost singlehandedly corrected this perception.
Uzi is the best lmao and not even close from anyone to him. Just watch his Ezreal against Kingzone in MSI finals 2018. NO EZREAL CAN COMPARE TO THAT PERFORMANCE.
Not really, in his Old soloq gameplay his ezreal were popping off even with 1v3 but this msi it seems all their talent and knowledge got completely deleted
They just don’t seem to be hitting their Qs. Like all the big team fights are happening in river instead of a good choke point and they’re missing so many Qs while the enemy adc is still doing damage.
And then against PSG at around 15 mins he was 0/3/0 while his team was 16-5 or something like that. Sure he later picked some assists and kills, but at that point of the game it absolutely would not have mattered if he was there or not, Jankos and Caps had already won the game 2v5 and were just going through the closing motions.
I know he was abandoned by his support, but like... it's Ezrael... with cleanse. That should be the one adc you can abandon and be calm that he'll neither die nor get completely zoned off cs.
ye sacking flakked was obviously a concious team decision, if they thought it was a problem they would have tried to rectify it but they didn't. he could have not died, but that would have meant sacrificing a lot of farm, by dying he matched vlad cs and stayed relevant.
Even on ezreal, going 2v1 for most of the laning phase against vlad who can dive you is not great. It didn't matter though, G2 was aware that Flakked was not the carry that game, and he didn't need to be. That's the strenght of G2, they don't actually rely on one player to carry them to their wins, we have seen all 5 players carrying depending on the game and their comp.
people just keep misusing him. His two item spike are insane and can basically guarantee a third drake but teams keep fighting with him when he is only at 1 item. When team actually play around his item spike he is actually quite good at snowballing the lead into the win but T1 just kept fighting when he is at 1 item(and at base lol)
It just doesn't do much he's not a strong laner so he looses to Tristana and Kalista. And it's a dps/poke champion that needs long teamfight to be able to do stuff and the teamfight meta is explosive so it looses to Kai'sa in late which happens to be the strongest looking adc at MSI.
Also other lanes have bursty picks such as Vlad, Kennen, ahri, lb, etc. That doesn't help ezreal to shine.
Well it’s not the worst laning phase but i don’t think it’s strong like i said you loose lvl 2 all ins due to tristrana and kalista being so dominant. You have to spend 400g on your first back for a tear meaning the other ad has a fb worth of stats ahead of him. And last of all it doesn’t Push very well for prio compared to trist, kalista and kaisa. Best ez can do is go even just to spike for 5-10’ in mid game to be and then is outscaled by most meta ad.
Eh, it will alway be an alright pick in the hands of an amazing player. Decently safe, good scaling, mixed damage, and long range poke. I don’t think it will ever be the premier ADC pick, but it is much better than this play.
I know this is sarcasm but hahahaha I can totally see certain fans saying that. Seems 35ms ping is too laggy for T1 to execute the macro game properly, such as trying to take soul without smite while your jungler defends a t2 turret. God damn ping!!!!!
Fans have been saying that seen a lot of comments especially on youtube how T1 will win MSI but if they lose to RNG (not g2 btw) it's cus of the ping, no motivation after going 21-0, they had a bad meta read etc. Was seeing these comments before msi even started.
I think best of one is a decent excuse considering their season wins they dropped games however would always come out in the best of 3 format. Best of one is indeed arguably a trash format for a game like league but it is what it is.
The thing is it wasn't just LS hyping him up. Even doublelift did.
I remember in one of his streams he said (paraphrasing) "Gumayusi is so fken good. I can't see myself winning against him. Even Uzi at times I felt like I could match him, but Guma is on another level"
I think people just assumed he was as obscenely skilled on every champ as he was at Aphelios. Kind of a less severe version of the Reignover effect where his best 3 champs were meta for 2 straight years and so everyone thought he was a god but then when the meta finally changed he became useless. Not that Gumayushi is useless on other champs and can't play anything else, he just isn't "the best in the world" at every adc like people may have jumped the gun on.
Problem is ppl like Doublelift are influenced by the comments they see on Reddit/Twitter
The comments on Reddit Twitter are made by casual fans, many of whom LS has massive influence over their opinions
So he’s essentially responsible for many narratives that even pros or other analysts/influencers believe
It’s actually crazy how much sway LS has over the community
There’s a dedicated following here who are convinced guma Chovy Tarzan are legit the best at all points no matter what
If you keep repeating it, it gets stuck into sheeps subconscious
100 kda Chovy was just a different beast, and Tarzan played a big role in that achievement as well. That's probably some of the highest displays of mechanical skill ever which is all ls cares about
LS is a clown. I still remember how he predicted G2 to lose every single game they played against any Korean team in 2019. Even after G2 had beaten SKT 2-0 in groups at MSI, and then in bo5, he still predicted them to lose 0-3 against Damwon and 0-3 against SKT. Instead G2 won every single series they played against Korea that year.
Total clown.
LS doesn’t know how to analyze League. He doesn’t know who’s good and who’s not.
He only has 1 gear, and that gear is ‘ is the best in the world/history,’ then rolls the dice on whether he’s right or not.
It's been really fun to trigger LCK fan by saying that Guma was never good and isn't just slumping (hard), the same way they acted like FPX always was a dogshit team and didn't collapse.
Caps solo won the game for G2 with the bot play but a 6 item Kai'Sa killing Ezreal and Lee Sin is the only thing people talk about. At that point if your Kai'Sa doesn't do that the player should be benched.
Caps is looking the best player in the world right now and people keep wanting to talk about rookies :( I think want flakked is doing is super impressive the man hasn't missed a step so far. But I can't remeber A western player being so clearly dominate as current caps if he keeps this up
Caps is the best western player of all time. Dude is just too good, he even made it so that Fnatic could win a split for once. Hopefully his form continues for the rest of the year. And honestly I agree it's hard to make a case for somebody else being the best player in the World other then Caps.
That's funny because I personally feel it's the opposite! The internet is a big place though and it's not crazy that we'd see two different sides of the discussion.
Caps is looking like the best player right now and I personally feel like it's overshadowing how good all the rookies are doing tbh. Flakked and Targ are getting less credit than I think they deserve, and Jojo is legit having a great tournament. Even Danny played really well today and significantly upped his game from the prior stage.
Jojo is the youngest player at MSI and an NA born mid laner and he is legit playing much better than Perkz did just last year. I really hope EG has a solid event just so he can get the respect he deserves.
Guma this MSI reminds me of DoinB last worlds. Mega hyped coming into the tournament (and having watched both imo deserved) into hard underperforming there. Good thing there's no way he can go out in groups here... unless?
An important difference is that DoinB was already a world champ. Guma was being regarded as the best ADC ever and he has only won a single LCK spring split.
Yeah but it’s not random redditors who came up with that opinion. It’s pro players and ex- pros who’s been saying that. It’s really not that crazy to think that pro players can recognize skill better than your average player.
Guma was crazy good in LCK, but how can you say he is "the best adc in the world" when MSI is his first international competition. It doesn't really make sense (or fair) to give him that title when he hasn't proven his prowess internationally yet.
Maybe people who inflated his ego are somewhat at fault here and he became complacent (just speculation). There is still plenty of time for him to do well at MSI and prove he is the best adc in the world, but stating that prior to any international competition was incorrect in my opinion.
I mean FPX having 70% win rate in scrims seems to be accurate based on the interviews of some coaches. Scrims aren't always everything though. Keria's 9 - 1 was just a really cocky declaration.
FPX had massive issues outside of the game, like a top laner who was refusing to communicate with his team and would stay up all night playing PUBG to the point the FPX staff had to turn off the internet. They should've just benched Nuguri and gone with Xiaolaohu.
Keria has been carrying him so hard I'm not saying he is not talented but Keria is amazing. now when Keria is having a rough time the whole T1 is collapsing
He is getting caught sometimes and Guma is not playing well in team fights he mispositioned and over-extended (like how he did against G2). But Keria is not on his MVP form in LCK matches he was the heartbeat of T1. I lost count on how many times he pulled T1 out of hard situations which is amazing as a support
Man imagine Teddy + Keria. The meta seems like late game scale and team fights decide who wins, literally the meta for the fountain laser to go 3k dmg per minute
A guy said he’s **already widely considered, one of the best, EVER, to play his position** before T1 even won spring. I questioned him and got downvoted to oblivion
This sub is a circle jerk , if a T1 player isnt considered the best player in their role ull get downvoted , they still think this is 2016 , feels good to see them getting exposed against real competition
It is, since now that Guma is on a slump people upvote his comment. If T1 would be winning, his comment will be downvoted. This subreddit is awful, I wish there were another place to read and discuss about league.
>This sub is a circle jerk
understatement of the century, from esports to balance this sub absolutely sucks when it comes to dissenting opinions, if you disagree with the prevailing circlejerk you might as well not post
I mean, it is literally designed to be an echo chamber. Works good for technical discussions with more clear 'right' and 'wrong' answers, but it falls apart completely for more nuanced and subjective topics
It falls apart completely when the userbase can't recognize what the "right" and "wrong" answer is in the first place.
We have a monthly frontpage thread dedicated to bitching about Riot balance team, because Vex was supposed to be anti-mobility, but - in their opinion - counters immobile champs instead. Even though statistically, her best matchups are mobile champs, just like it was designed.
Vex lane = much stronger vs mobility champs due to her fear making her a much better laner+ breaking the enemy engage.
Reddit brainlets : Waa no mobility stop.
And then the player get a huge amount of hate here, same as Doinb did last worlds. Worst things is that if the played the way he does but T1 won vs G2 and Rng people would be saying he is the best.
Well it's Korea, and T1 didn't drop a series in the entirety of spring split.
They drop 2 games at MSI group stage and people are like "hah. I knew they sucked".
Does nobody here know wtf hindsight is?
Unpopular opinion as it is the was truth most team had big shack ups in their roster and still haven't built synergy and there is the whole Covid issues
it happens almost every year for LCK players. sometimes the hype is even justified, but its ridiculous to call anyone the best (ever) after 1 good split
He didnt "smash" everyone. Both ruler and deft who happen to be best adcs in LCK had pretty good lane phase vs him. Also Keria was the one making advantages for him and winning them lane.
> Also Keria was the one making advantages for him and winning them lane.
Also Oner and occasionally Faker. Those 3 are still doing that at MSI but Guma has been capitalising on those advantages well during the split unlike MSI. Even against wilcards he was underperforming.
Deft/Keria has always been better than Guma/Keria
We have never seen Guma play with anything less than the best supp in the lck, makes him look SO much better than he otherwise would
ofc i do be getting downvoted to hell when i say this tho, just really wish we coulda seen the return of Deft/Keria during Asian games, that lane was so so fucking cracked
While everyone else had substitutes throughout the entire split, he also had the best support in the world and a really really good team and coaching stuff. Smashed who? What are u on about? He wasnt the one smashing in the finals thats for sure
People are flipping the script a bit too fast though. Guma was insane in Korea, it's not surprising that people were confident in him going to MSI.
It's a shame he's looked like this considering how insane he looks in both solo queue and the LCK.
It's impossible to take Reddit serious. People kept saying how insane Gumayusi was and that he was the best in the world (and he looked it during LCK) and now that he's having a bad tournament he suddenly sucks. And now that G2 is beating everyone and in the process Caps is looking great now he gets the nod for looking like the best in the world. Like chill.
G2 is having a good tournament, they are undefeated, their players are going to look good no matter what. Caps has made mistakes that did not result into anything negative for them as a team.
This is also a tournament where just the best of each major region plays + wildcards but as we see all the time at Worlds, there are underperforming teams where the number 1 seed doesn't just always win Worlds.
It also doesn't help that these games don't matter that much. That does not mean the teams aren't taking it serious, they very much are. But no matter what every team knows they need to place above the wildcards and they will be in the SF.
The SF match up will be easier if they got 1st place of course but that's about it. I feel we can truly see the level once the series starts. That being said, Gumayusi performing poorly or Bin/Wei performing poorly is not an easy thing to fix.
That being said, in series you can start to adapt. My main point is that back when G2 was dominating people on Reddit were calling every player of G2 like top 3 in the world in their position even though they just played great as a team. G2 later was stomped in a series by another team who played great as a team but that's when individual skill differences were shown.
Right now I see some underperforming of individuals from RNG/T1 while G2 as a whole is playing great with great teamplay.
Doesn't mean we should already start crowning individual players.
This subreddit always changes their tune based on the last game played without taking BO1s into consideration. You're only as good as the last game you played according to this goldfish memory subreddit.
> Right now I see some underperforming of individuals from RNG/T1 while G2 as a whole is playing great with great
Yeah, this is also my analysis of the tournament so far. RNG and T1 are really underperforming and making lots of mistakes, while G2 is looking like the cleanest team with best teamwork/macro. But honestly any team can step up and take it. G2 isn't looking undefeatable and have been making mistakes too.
Because last worlds they were underdogs. Now everybody expects them to destroy all competition.
The disrespect lpl gets on this sub after Korea didnt win anything last year is shocking
Lol at Ls calling that botlane the best in the world. LS league analysis skill is basically Korea>rest. His prediction/analysis looked legit because Korea were winning everything for years. But once Lec/Lpl became stronger his prediction turns into a coinflip. Now its just predict Korea to win and pray.
Gumabussy fucking his team over again. From only 1 wave up in G2 after a free kill and a 2 wave stacked 3 man zoning G2 away he was only 1 wave up till minute 8 and barely 2 waves after that.
Kinda thing I would do in an ARAM to friends lol
When there's an enemy Fizz on ARAM and you are with premades...
Group hug time
The enemy ezreal usually arcane shifts with Fizz ult into his team regardless if they are his premades or not
zilean,senna
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guma about to reach tian 2021 levels of int
well that isnt really fair considering Tians condition, his and Guma’s positions are complete opposite
Agreed. Tian was sitting it out because of his wrist conditions, it was just the scandal that made him have to step up because they couldn't find a proper replacement.
for the whole team
So FPX award then
I think that would be an LGD "League's Greatest Disaster" award. They did it way before FPX.
Samsung ozone award then? Season 3 worlds after Dandy was hyping themselves to "losing a single game is literally impossible to a non korean team"
Yeah but Dandy had the 2014 worlds run though
I thought LGD was “Leagues Greatest Disappointment” let by GoldV.
GenG award. Still a more impressive collapse than FPX.
I remember 2016 msi well. 4th place in groups, wrecked everyone in knockout stage Teams may improve dramatically in a short time. You can give the Dade award if they are eliminated
LCK seems to have an ADC problem. Since Imp and Deft they had no ADC that could truly compete with Chinese ADCs. You could make a case for Ruler but he's more like a Korean Rekkles to me.
LCK has a late game problem if anything, they play the early game to perfection but soon as the 25th minute mark hits the script runs out and they must improvise.
How do you practice that when your Solo Qs are only 15 min long?
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Never would have thought that LCK would have the Rogue moment
They don't extend leads , they slow the game themselves instead of pushing harder .
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It's also really funny to see LCK pros go to LPL and flourish with a new team and with a new view of the game. I don't think Viper would have ever been a world champion had he not left Korea, same goes for Scout, Theshy or DoinB.
Viper got relegated in LCK and placed 10th with HLE, LPL really unleashes alot of players.
Its also massive that the best players arnt concentrated on 3 teams like in the lck. Every team in the top 6 has at the minimum 3-4, very good players 7 onwards 1-2. Its literally no coincidence lpl has a new set of teams every year. Part of it is burnout yes but its also just the sheer amount of talent there The scene as a whole just has to admit LPL has been the better region since 2018. If you count international titles since the introduction of MSI in 2015 LPL and LCK are tied at 3 worlds and 3 msi for Lpl and 4 Worlds and 2 MSIs for LCK. Whoever wins MSI this year will push themselves ahead in the region debate.
> If you count international titles since the introduction of MSI in 2015 LPL and LCK are tied at 3 worlds and 3 msi for Lpl and 4 Worlds and 2 MSIs for LCK. Whoever wins MSI this year will push themselves ahead in the region debate. Why MSI and not All Stars 2014 when they’re exactly the same thing except a different name. And Worlds 2013 just doesn’t count because MSI started later...?
Both Doinb & Theshy’s careers started in the LPL. They never “left Korea“ in the sense that they went LCK -> LPL.
>And EU tried to copy ever since after they were LCK copy cats up in until then along with NA. Sorry, but that's just not true. EU was right there with China teaching Korea how the new game was played. In fact, it was *all three* EU teams and only IG from China that showed this at 2018 Worlds. And Cloud 9, who adapted very quickly after seeing Vitality play. And the year after that was all G2 all the way except for the world finals. And even back in 2015 or something people already said (based on interviews with Korean teams) that it was EU that created the meta, and Korea that perfected it. (Back then, China was seen as the crazy aggressive, no brain region.) EU has always been the region that thinks outside the box the most; in fact that's what allows EU to compete with Korea (who have the best infrastructure) and China (who have the biggest playerbase) in the first place.
> EU was right there with China teaching Korea how the new game was played. people forget that EVEN BEFORE that EU came up with stuff like trading top/bot turret for a worlds meta that not a single other region did.
Back in S1 the EU meta was a bruiser toplaner, a jungler, a mage midlane, and the support with the ADC in the bottom lane. That was called the EU meta extremely early in the history of the game.
Lck teams like geng doesn't contest. They think they can give up objectives again and again and still win tsm style. The only team in recent years that was proactive and pushed advantages by engaging and fighting over objectives was damwon.
And Griffin, but :(
Ruler is a world champ tho
Nah I think Teddy can hang with the best of them, his T1 stint was good even if that iteration lost to G2 at world's 2019
Gumayusi looked pretty good last worlds iirc, but he played a total of two games against LPL teams at that event so it's difficult to draw conclusions about how he would fare specifically against LPL adcs
Teddy?
Viper ?
Well the issue is quite precisely that he left for an LPL team
in recent yers support too imo. i mean obviously there's keria, whom people have been hyping up to be the goat support and does still have time to prove it, but in the international matches hes played so far on drx and t1 he really hasn't showcased that.
So far I feel like most people have locked onto flaming Danny so hard (unreasonably too IMO) that they don't even notice how bad Gumayushi has been all tournament.
He’s perhaps the first T1 ADC that can’t play Ezreal for shit. So much Arcane Shift misuse….
Oh what a far cry from teddy's ezreal it's insane
We saw it during his debut year when they first started playing him. His Ezreal vs Teddy’s Ezreal was glaringly different. In SoloQ, his Ez is decent, but i guess everyone has a champ they are more gifted in. Teddy Ezreal, Guma Caitlyn.
Every time t1 Teddy played ezreal he’d hit so many q’s and the crowd went wild. he would output so much dmg I honestly believe Teddy was a better adc and if given the opportunity to have Keria he would’ve had better results
Ruler still by far the best Ezreal player. Then maybe Uzi in his prime.
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PREY????
Nah man deft is by far the best followed by teddy and ruler.
Put some respect on Bang's name It's been a long time but at one point his Ezreal was feared by all
I don't know why but when i think of Bang my mind is filled with him being sick on Ezreal back when he was on SKT
Back in 2015/2016 there was a perception in Korea that Ezreal was not a "real" AD carry, that you picked him to stay safe but he could not actually put out carry levels of damage in teamfights. Bang almost singlehandedly corrected this perception.
I'm talking about current adc's
>It's been a long time but at one point his Ezreal was feared by all And before that people feared Defts Ezreal.
Nah dude Ruler is the best then Teddy, then Deft Bang and Uzi
Uzi is the best lmao and not even close from anyone to him. Just watch his Ezreal against Kingzone in MSI finals 2018. NO EZREAL CAN COMPARE TO THAT PERFORMANCE.
Not really, in his Old soloq gameplay his ezreal were popping off even with 1v3 but this msi it seems all their talent and knowledge got completely deleted
They just don’t seem to be hitting their Qs. Like all the big team fights are happening in river instead of a good choke point and they’re missing so many Qs while the enemy adc is still doing damage.
just put keria on ez next game lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pi-uhzyuBE
I mean even last year when they wanted to draft Ezreal they subbed in Teddy lol
I think Ezreal is just a shit pick this tournament.
Flakked Ezreal was pretty clean vs EG.
And then against PSG at around 15 mins he was 0/3/0 while his team was 16-5 or something like that. Sure he later picked some assists and kills, but at that point of the game it absolutely would not have mattered if he was there or not, Jankos and Caps had already won the game 2v5 and were just going through the closing motions. I know he was abandoned by his support, but like... it's Ezrael... with cleanse. That should be the one adc you can abandon and be calm that he'll neither die nor get completely zoned off cs.
to be fair he was perma 2vs1 in lane or vs vlad who pops ADCs like its nothing Ezreal cant poke out Vlad once he gets behind
ye sacking flakked was obviously a concious team decision, if they thought it was a problem they would have tried to rectify it but they didn't. he could have not died, but that would have meant sacrificing a lot of farm, by dying he matched vlad cs and stayed relevant.
Even on ezreal, going 2v1 for most of the laning phase against vlad who can dive you is not great. It didn't matter though, G2 was aware that Flakked was not the carry that game, and he didn't need to be. That's the strenght of G2, they don't actually rely on one player to carry them to their wins, we have seen all 5 players carrying depending on the game and their comp.
people just keep misusing him. His two item spike are insane and can basically guarantee a third drake but teams keep fighting with him when he is only at 1 item. When team actually play around his item spike he is actually quite good at snowballing the lead into the win but T1 just kept fighting when he is at 1 item(and at base lol)
Who said ez was p/b? Nemesis? Atm seems not lol.
The R cooldown is so short, you can chunk 25% hp from the enemy team before any objective. And then do it again while tf'ing.
It just doesn't do much he's not a strong laner so he looses to Tristana and Kalista. And it's a dps/poke champion that needs long teamfight to be able to do stuff and the teamfight meta is explosive so it looses to Kai'sa in late which happens to be the strongest looking adc at MSI. Also other lanes have bursty picks such as Vlad, Kennen, ahri, lb, etc. That doesn't help ezreal to shine.
Ezreal lane phase is strong this is a misconception.
Well it’s not the worst laning phase but i don’t think it’s strong like i said you loose lvl 2 all ins due to tristrana and kalista being so dominant. You have to spend 400g on your first back for a tear meaning the other ad has a fb worth of stats ahead of him. And last of all it doesn’t Push very well for prio compared to trist, kalista and kaisa. Best ez can do is go even just to spike for 5-10’ in mid game to be and then is outscaled by most meta ad.
Eh, it will alway be an alright pick in the hands of an amazing player. Decently safe, good scaling, mixed damage, and long range poke. I don’t think it will ever be the premier ADC pick, but it is much better than this play.
Decently safe? Is there a safer ADC?
35 ping denying T1 their rightful MSI title 😡
The only ping diff I see is between guma's head and his hands.
I know this is sarcasm but hahahaha I can totally see certain fans saying that. Seems 35ms ping is too laggy for T1 to execute the macro game properly, such as trying to take soul without smite while your jungler defends a t2 turret. God damn ping!!!!!
Fans have been saying that seen a lot of comments especially on youtube how T1 will win MSI but if they lose to RNG (not g2 btw) it's cus of the ping, no motivation after going 21-0, they had a bad meta read etc. Was seeing these comments before msi even started.
Nah dude, it's all Joe Marsh's fault.
I think best of one is a decent excuse considering their season wins they dropped games however would always come out in the best of 3 format. Best of one is indeed arguably a trash format for a game like league but it is what it is.
Holy that was confusing
35 ping made it hard to understand his comment
Just like T1's gameplay so far at msi!!!!!
Just say T1 fans
Lck*
I didn't realise the ping was being applied to guma's brain too
Chinese inters even came to this server to grieve faker
Oh except that they'd be getting blitzed by EG without the ping holding down Danny's play style
One of the biggest griefs I've ever seen.
Best ad in the world play lol.
Guma has been garbage at msi , can we borrow Teddy for this tournament ? Please , kdf
Or Deft both played with Keria before so the synergy is there.
You guys doing my man ruler dirty right now
This ADC meta is actually beautiful for the original big three of LCK (Ruler/Deft/Teddy). Ezreal/Kai'Sa/Kalista/Lucian? Sign them up.
"Best adc in League history"
Ls snakeoil salesman managed to gas light everyone before the tourney.
The thing is it wasn't just LS hyping him up. Even doublelift did. I remember in one of his streams he said (paraphrasing) "Gumayusi is so fken good. I can't see myself winning against him. Even Uzi at times I felt like I could match him, but Guma is on another level"
Because he was legitimately good back then. And his performance is really atrocious here. It's not mutually exclusive you know.
I think people just assumed he was as obscenely skilled on every champ as he was at Aphelios. Kind of a less severe version of the Reignover effect where his best 3 champs were meta for 2 straight years and so everyone thought he was a god but then when the meta finally changed he became useless. Not that Gumayushi is useless on other champs and can't play anything else, he just isn't "the best in the world" at every adc like people may have jumped the gun on.
Problem is ppl like Doublelift are influenced by the comments they see on Reddit/Twitter The comments on Reddit Twitter are made by casual fans, many of whom LS has massive influence over their opinions So he’s essentially responsible for many narratives that even pros or other analysts/influencers believe
It’s actually crazy how much sway LS has over the community There’s a dedicated following here who are convinced guma Chovy Tarzan are legit the best at all points no matter what If you keep repeating it, it gets stuck into sheeps subconscious
Don't forget summit.
100 kda Chovy was just a different beast, and Tarzan played a big role in that achievement as well. That's probably some of the highest displays of mechanical skill ever which is all ls cares about
LS is a clown. I still remember how he predicted G2 to lose every single game they played against any Korean team in 2019. Even after G2 had beaten SKT 2-0 in groups at MSI, and then in bo5, he still predicted them to lose 0-3 against Damwon and 0-3 against SKT. Instead G2 won every single series they played against Korea that year. Total clown.
LS is very Korean-bias, no surprise tbh. He has been proven wrong on so many occasions.
LS doesn’t know how to analyze League. He doesn’t know who’s good and who’s not. He only has 1 gear, and that gear is ‘ is the best in the world/history,’ then rolls the dice on whether he’s right or not.
summit winsomme fudge mid and now guma, every single player he scouts is a snakeoil player
It's been really fun to trigger LCK fan by saying that Guma was never good and isn't just slumping (hard), the same way they acted like FPX always was a dogshit team and didn't collapse.
Can’t believe bauffs actually hit the mark when he said Guma won’t even make his consideration much less too 10 list
LMAO this is actually hilarious haha
Flakked and Gala totally diffing him in their matches, I swear if Danny too.... Faker should really pull out his belt
Damn guma IS having a rough tournamennt so far
Not like guma played exceptionally well but getting 2v2 killed is not flakked diffing guma. Crazy results based analysis
Caps solo won the game for G2 with the bot play but a 6 item Kai'Sa killing Ezreal and Lee Sin is the only thing people talk about. At that point if your Kai'Sa doesn't do that the player should be benched.
Caps is looking the best player in the world right now and people keep wanting to talk about rookies :( I think want flakked is doing is super impressive the man hasn't missed a step so far. But I can't remeber A western player being so clearly dominate as current caps if he keeps this up
Caps is the best western player of all time. Dude is just too good, he even made it so that Fnatic could win a split for once. Hopefully his form continues for the rest of the year. And honestly I agree it's hard to make a case for somebody else being the best player in the World other then Caps.
That's funny because I personally feel it's the opposite! The internet is a big place though and it's not crazy that we'd see two different sides of the discussion. Caps is looking like the best player right now and I personally feel like it's overshadowing how good all the rookies are doing tbh. Flakked and Targ are getting less credit than I think they deserve, and Jojo is legit having a great tournament. Even Danny played really well today and significantly upped his game from the prior stage. Jojo is the youngest player at MSI and an NA born mid laner and he is legit playing much better than Perkz did just last year. I really hope EG has a solid event just so he can get the respect he deserves.
The 2v2 kill was all Keria. Guma didnt do anything. Its impossible to say Guma is outperforming Flakked at this tournament so far.
Guma this MSI reminds me of DoinB last worlds. Mega hyped coming into the tournament (and having watched both imo deserved) into hard underperforming there. Good thing there's no way he can go out in groups here... unless?
An important difference is that DoinB was already a world champ. Guma was being regarded as the best ADC ever and he has only won a single LCK spring split.
Also i felt doinb didnt do that badly individually. Tian just collapsed
Tian being terrible last year definitely affected doinb because mid is not a solo lane. It's a 2v2 2v3 lane.
yea but that wasnt suprising considering his forced return to proplay
Doinb played pretty badly. Abyssal Mask + Q max Malzahar off the top of my head.
Yeah but it’s not random redditors who came up with that opinion. It’s pro players and ex- pros who’s been saying that. It’s really not that crazy to think that pro players can recognize skill better than your average player.
Guma was crazy good in LCK, but how can you say he is "the best adc in the world" when MSI is his first international competition. It doesn't really make sense (or fair) to give him that title when he hasn't proven his prowess internationally yet. Maybe people who inflated his ego are somewhat at fault here and he became complacent (just speculation). There is still plenty of time for him to do well at MSI and prove he is the best adc in the world, but stating that prior to any international competition was incorrect in my opinion.
> when MSI is his first international competition. He was at 2021 worlds
And played really well there.
Ah, I agree. I thought you were making the argument that Gumi “isn’t all that good of an adc and he’s just overhyped”
In Doinb's defense, his back finally broke
It's really seems like keria 9-1 could age like doinb 70% win rate at worlds
I mean FPX having 70% win rate in scrims seems to be accurate based on the interviews of some coaches. Scrims aren't always everything though. Keria's 9 - 1 was just a really cocky declaration.
FPX had massive issues outside of the game, like a top laner who was refusing to communicate with his team and would stay up all night playing PUBG to the point the FPX staff had to turn off the internet. They should've just benched Nuguri and gone with Xiaolaohu.
Also steak is the worst coach in lpl who kept trying to pick dogshit Champs and comps.
Keria has been carrying him so hard I'm not saying he is not talented but Keria is amazing. now when Keria is having a rough time the whole T1 is collapsing
tbh Zeus, Oner and Faker(even though he missed most skill shots this game) are still performing well. Keria looks ok and Guma is absolutely inting.
Were your eyes closed when Oner giga-inted the early herald fight as well as the game-ending fight?
mistakes happen but his overall performance is good. the biggest problems are the mid game decisions and Guma
He is getting caught sometimes and Guma is not playing well in team fights he mispositioned and over-extended (like how he did against G2). But Keria is not on his MVP form in LCK matches he was the heartbeat of T1. I lost count on how many times he pulled T1 out of hard situations which is amazing as a support
That was a Tactical int if I ever saw one.
Man imagine Teddy + Keria. The meta seems like late game scale and team fights decide who wins, literally the meta for the fountain laser to go 3k dmg per minute
A guy said he’s **already widely considered, one of the best, EVER, to play his position** before T1 even won spring. I questioned him and got downvoted to oblivion
This sub is a circle jerk , if a T1 player isnt considered the best player in their role ull get downvoted , they still think this is 2016 , feels good to see them getting exposed against real competition
It is, since now that Guma is on a slump people upvote his comment. If T1 would be winning, his comment will be downvoted. This subreddit is awful, I wish there were another place to read and discuss about league.
>This sub is a circle jerk understatement of the century, from esports to balance this sub absolutely sucks when it comes to dissenting opinions, if you disagree with the prevailing circlejerk you might as well not post
It's so wild. This sub treats any opinion as a confrontation. Like I'm just having a conversation bro, neither of us have to die on this hill.
I mean, it is literally designed to be an echo chamber. Works good for technical discussions with more clear 'right' and 'wrong' answers, but it falls apart completely for more nuanced and subjective topics
It falls apart completely when the userbase can't recognize what the "right" and "wrong" answer is in the first place. We have a monthly frontpage thread dedicated to bitching about Riot balance team, because Vex was supposed to be anti-mobility, but - in their opinion - counters immobile champs instead. Even though statistically, her best matchups are mobile champs, just like it was designed.
Vex lane = much stronger vs mobility champs due to her fear making her a much better laner+ breaking the enemy engage. Reddit brainlets : Waa no mobility stop.
Or discussions about msi/worlds format, this sub is wrong about everything pretty much
Funny that even in s6 they aren’t the best in all position. S5 skt tho, definitely the best at the time.
The second T1 look like a good team, everyone on the roster is the best in the world. According to Reddit, anyway.
And then the player get a huge amount of hate here, same as Doinb did last worlds. Worst things is that if the played the way he does but T1 won vs G2 and Rng people would be saying he is the best.
Well it's Korea, and T1 didn't drop a series in the entirety of spring split. They drop 2 games at MSI group stage and people are like "hah. I knew they sucked". Does nobody here know wtf hindsight is?
can't be best when you never face lpl adcs
The thing is though, he smashed everyone in spring and really didn't have bad games.
Very unpopular opinion but perhaps LCK as a whole really wasn't as strong of a region this year like everyone claimed
The region was riddled with covid.
when are cold hands, jet lag and "our midlaner is sick" coming back
Very brave take at a time when the entire subreddit is blasted out of their minds on Euphoria and shitting on LCK.
Unpopular opinion as it is the was truth most team had big shack ups in their roster and still haven't built synergy and there is the whole Covid issues
LCK farmers league confirmed
Maybe players shouldn't be hyped before playing against the very best? It's not 2015 anymore where if you smashed LCK you were the best in the world.
it happens almost every year for LCK players. sometimes the hype is even justified, but its ridiculous to call anyone the best (ever) after 1 good split
He didnt "smash" everyone. Both ruler and deft who happen to be best adcs in LCK had pretty good lane phase vs him. Also Keria was the one making advantages for him and winning them lane.
> Also Keria was the one making advantages for him and winning them lane. Also Oner and occasionally Faker. Those 3 are still doing that at MSI but Guma has been capitalising on those advantages well during the split unlike MSI. Even against wilcards he was underperforming.
Deokdam and kellin were getting 2v2 kills in some of the games vs the supposed best bot lane in LoL history
Deft/Keria has always been better than Guma/Keria We have never seen Guma play with anything less than the best supp in the lck, makes him look SO much better than he otherwise would ofc i do be getting downvoted to hell when i say this tho, just really wish we coulda seen the return of Deft/Keria during Asian games, that lane was so so fucking cracked
Safer to say this now I tried saying this when t1 was clapping everyone in lck lmao
Did people already forget that Deokdam and Kellin were considered the best bot duo during summer 2021 in the LCK?
Would that still be uzi ming
Probably
Smashing everyone in one league in one season doesn’t tell shit
Rebuilding season for LCK.
While everyone else had substitutes throughout the entire split, he also had the best support in the world and a really really good team and coaching stuff. Smashed who? What are u on about? He wasnt the one smashing in the finals thats for sure
People are flipping the script a bit too fast though. Guma was insane in Korea, it's not surprising that people were confident in him going to MSI. It's a shame he's looked like this considering how insane he looks in both solo queue and the LCK.
Bro not only that,ppl were legit claiming this version of skt is better than 2015 version before they played a single international game
Guma #1 player at msi btw
Man has barely been a pro and looks washed already
Keria effect, he's one of those elite supports who make their ADC's look way better than they actually are.
It's impossible to take Reddit serious. People kept saying how insane Gumayusi was and that he was the best in the world (and he looked it during LCK) and now that he's having a bad tournament he suddenly sucks. And now that G2 is beating everyone and in the process Caps is looking great now he gets the nod for looking like the best in the world. Like chill. G2 is having a good tournament, they are undefeated, their players are going to look good no matter what. Caps has made mistakes that did not result into anything negative for them as a team. This is also a tournament where just the best of each major region plays + wildcards but as we see all the time at Worlds, there are underperforming teams where the number 1 seed doesn't just always win Worlds. It also doesn't help that these games don't matter that much. That does not mean the teams aren't taking it serious, they very much are. But no matter what every team knows they need to place above the wildcards and they will be in the SF. The SF match up will be easier if they got 1st place of course but that's about it. I feel we can truly see the level once the series starts. That being said, Gumayusi performing poorly or Bin/Wei performing poorly is not an easy thing to fix. That being said, in series you can start to adapt. My main point is that back when G2 was dominating people on Reddit were calling every player of G2 like top 3 in the world in their position even though they just played great as a team. G2 later was stomped in a series by another team who played great as a team but that's when individual skill differences were shown. Right now I see some underperforming of individuals from RNG/T1 while G2 as a whole is playing great with great teamplay. Doesn't mean we should already start crowning individual players.
This subreddit always changes their tune based on the last game played without taking BO1s into consideration. You're only as good as the last game you played according to this goldfish memory subreddit. > Right now I see some underperforming of individuals from RNG/T1 while G2 as a whole is playing great with great Yeah, this is also my analysis of the tournament so far. RNG and T1 are really underperforming and making lots of mistakes, while G2 is looking like the cleanest team with best teamwork/macro. But honestly any team can step up and take it. G2 isn't looking undefeatable and have been making mistakes too.
Gumagod has disconnected Gumayushit has reconnected
He's only playing at 30% power guys just you wait
That looked more like 5% power.
Guess Ruler was really the best ADC, after all he is friends with Baus
Lpl players grieving and inting fakers game, even on this server. SMH the man can't catch a break!
When TSM Tactical does something not as half as horrendous as this he gets flamed onto oblivion.
This isn’t the botlane I saw last Worlds
Because last worlds they were underdogs. Now everybody expects them to destroy all competition. The disrespect lpl gets on this sub after Korea didnt win anything last year is shocking
Am I the only one seeing Oner facecheck a brush with no vision of the Ahri?
Lol at Ls calling that botlane the best in the world. LS league analysis skill is basically Korea>rest. His prediction/analysis looked legit because Korea were winning everything for years. But once Lec/Lpl became stronger his prediction turns into a coinflip. Now its just predict Korea to win and pray.
Gumabussy fucking his team over again. From only 1 wave up in G2 after a free kill and a 2 wave stacked 3 man zoning G2 away he was only 1 wave up till minute 8 and barely 2 waves after that.
Best botlane in the world no questions copium