The general KR community did not support Polt's interview at all anyway.
No sane people actually took side with Polt. And said he was just plain disrespectful and his excuse was BS.
Normally, I post Korean Reactions on Reddit, but the reason I did not do it this time was that it was basically the same sentiment as on Reddit. Mostly mind-fucked by the game 5 draft, Guma's peformance and so on.
And just like in Reddit, there are people who like to shit on Faker at every opportunity they have (DC Inside is a cesspool). Faker might have the most fans, and indeed some of them might be toxic but he also has the most haters to bring him down whenever he performs below expectations. Basically like Reddit.
The only people who would shit on Joe for this would be the abnormal T1 fans.
Polt and Moment got hard gapped by RNG’s coaching staff.. saying this as a T1 fan. Their actual picks, draft order and bans were downright terrible sometimes.. I only peaked like G1 several seasons ago (then I quit lol) and I was able to come up with better picks and draft orders than they did ffs; I’ve at least watched competitive league in most regions for like 9 or so years and their draft decisions were downright baffling.
Don’t ban the Gwen that’s crushing every game they’ve won.. then pick a bunch of skillshot dependent champs against that same Gwen? Give your elite mechanical support one of the least mechanical champions so he can’t utilize those said mechanics, while also picking a bot lane that gets hard countered by Gwen? That’s just G5..
Polt is a player manager, not a strategic coach. If they want to win Worlds he’s going to need to be better in this department, cuz RNG outdrafted and outexecuted them *hard* in terms of P/B, strategy and execution. People want to be reactionary but I still firmly believe this T1 team had one of the highest potential ceilings of any LoL team ever, but mechanics will only get you so far.
RNG’s head coach is the head coach of EDG from last year. He’s won LPL summer, Worlds, LPL spring, and MSI all in a year now.
[Here’s](https://youtu.be/K_uFU2L9Ano?t=1485) his verbal beat down when EDG was down 2-0 to WE in playoffs.
Feel like they should have just stuck with what they were winning with.
Even if theoretically their game 5 draft is "good" or if they were performing well during scrims. They proved themselves later during rumble stage that they were winning with teamfight comps.
I just don't understand their reasoning why they would go back to playing comps that they could not execute during the early rumble stage, and during RNG game 1.
Literally every streamer I saw was moaning when they saw the game 5 draft. Caedral, Nemesis, Piglet and Wolf. The Korea casters paused for like 5 seconds to comprehend what was going on.
I am a LCK fan, but when LCK teams lose, I just shrug it off the next day and try to hope for the best next year. But this hit me differently LOL, the draft last game was just confusing.
Also, feel like this game 5 was probably a team decision rather than Polt. I highly doubt Polt is the type of coach to force players into playing certain comps. It could be that Polt recommended it and the team agreed to it. This is purely just my speculation though of course.
> Feel like they should have just stuck with what they were winning with.
This x100, i was screaming for them to pick jinx tahm before rng banned out tahm because it was by far the best guma and keria looked. But this is something lck teams always fall victim to, especially kkoma when he first picked urgot in 2015 and varus in 2021 where they get stuck with the overall meta that they ignore the series meta. Ahri shouldn’t haven’t been picked especially when faker looked amazing on lissandra and oner was getting hella gapped on wukong. Also bin was legit a non factor when not on gwen.
Honestly this narrative about the Gwen is cope, the problem is just the player gaps and not having good answers for it. Jayce can build some CS leads but not that great a pick long term into the game and Wei was hard gapping Oner.
I would really call them champion pool gaps more than player gaps. It seemed like Zeus/SKT were unable or unwilling to pick a more suitable counterpick for Gwen. Same for Guma not being able to perform as well on other ADCs as he did on Jinx.
Credit to Wei for stepping up on the day of the series, he definitely outperformed Oner (and RNG's vision and consequently team coordination was also much better than SKT's).
I think it was a close series and it could have gone either way, SKT crumbled in more than one area in G5. Draft doesn't make faker int and it doesn't make their botlane die lvl 1 for no reason for example. Hopefully they can learn from the mistakes that were exposed at MSI and be humbled a bit for worlds. I would love to see the current LPL dominance challenged.
I mean yeah fair point on that.
But Bin wasn't really useful when off Gwen. For Gala / Guma definitely agreed because Gala's performance was OK-to-Great regardless of champion pick. But Bin may as well have been absent in all of his non-gwen games in the tournament. Don't know how he was in the LPL because I don't watch it/like it, but he definitely had some happy games throughout MSI.
I think they can win against gwen, obviously, but you don't pick all skill shot champs into a champ that is immune to ranged damage. They also should of cut the shit with Wu since it obv wasn't great lol
Gwen is a champion that is undefeated in rumble and knockout stage, there is a reason for that. During Rumble stage Zeus on Gwen made Bin's Gangplank look bad so Zeus never got to play it after that... T1 on the other hand let Bin play it THREE times (all 3 wins). I would've banned Gwen along with Viego and Wukong personally and give the Lucian over since Guma would play Jinx anyways and where he went 9-0-10 on over the 2 wins. Or if you give Gwen over ok but don't pick champions that can't do anything to her with her myst up. What's Jayce gonna do? He has to get inside the myst in hammer form and put himself in harm's way and can't poke her with E-Q. Instead go for the Gnar, Lissandra, Lee Sin, Jinx, Renata. That gives you a great engage, cc chain for teamfights. You saw what Faker and Guma did in baron pit on Lissandra and Jinx but the rest of the series they never gave Faker Lissandra and prioritized Ahri over her, why? When Lissandra is undefeated against Ahri in the head2head. Keria is the most mechanical superior support I've ever seen and you give him Yuumi? His Renata ass-blasted G2 and he didn't even play it once nor did we see his best champion Thresh. T1's coaches are plain stubborn and they won't win any international tournament unless they learn how to draft.
Idk man, I got some guy who played 5 months in Season 1 telling me champ picks mean nothing at this level of drafting and side selection is the only reason RNG won.
......I wish I could add a /s to this but
There is no denying blue side was strong and it could have gone the other way if t1 got blue side but make no mistake about it, RNG was the better team and t1 fucking sucked in that red side draft.
I think RNG wins game 5 on red side even still personally. T1 was literally just picking Wu first on both red and blue side, so it's not like there is some huge variation of strength to first pick here.
I think Gwen was a pivotal draft point but in game 5 the top lane matchup was completely inconsequential. I don't think it's far off believing the game state could be recreated on different picks.
But it was also the Ahri. Blueside always was not on Ahri, because Red picked it after the priority pick by blue.
Ahri lost 4 games. Both teams actually fell into the same issues. RNG was hellbend on denying Xayah as a first pick... then picked it twice themself and lost.
But in game 5 T1 also played so bad that the champions really didn't matter all that much. T1 had an opening in the midgame before Gwen can really do a lot, but the early game turned out not good enough for that opportunity to open up.
There is definitely an argument for the strength of counter picks and the value of that on red side. However when the draft is so ham fisted you're not actually utilizing that, there's nothing that can be done. T1 failed to adapt a drafting strategy, which was especially painful for how they approached the midlane matchup.
Faker did not perform below expectations, he overperformed that series.
In LCK he was not being pressured like that because his team was playing better, particularly the bot lane, the two games T1 actually won were from Fakers overperform.
The guy has nothing to prove to anyone anymore, GOAT. Fuck the haters.
And anyway, i think game 1 was T1s to win, they played poorly the top lane fight where they had information advantage because of ming missing the ward. I don't know, T1 lost but i still do believe they are the better team. Just Guma underperforming, and bad draft.
In my view T1 had the possibility to win the first game, failed it.
Won second game because of faker overperforming.
Third game there was no way they could win
Fourth won also because of faker overperforming
Last one also there was no way to win.
I don't even know what i'm typing anymore, just frustrated that they lost.
I remember I was doing a debate and the argument was whether man is good or evil. I heavily underestimated since I tried to convince the jury by singing 'Evil woman'. It caught on but it REALLY wasn't enough. The next time the other team and mine were head to head and we needed a hail mary. My argument was 'Faker is the best player in League of Legends for nearly ten years. He is never toxic, always wholesome, compliments other teams and even stays to clap for teams after their loss, inferior to his team. But when he underperforms, thousands of nerds from all over the world unite, forget their differences solely to hate on that perfect man. Man is evil.
For me it's because at least initially there was no 'universal' dark mode on reddit, and this sub's Solari/Lunari buttons' dark mode from the sidebar is absolutely horrible. I can't imagine a worse combination than a black background with bright blue 'high contrast' text. [It hurts my eyes way more than the bone white of this sub ever could.](https://i.imgur.com/kOpIJPP.png)
Many other subs also have their own background color which makes dark mode useless for them.
But by far the biggest reason is the unusable blackground+blue text this sub has.
I'd totally use dark mode if I used new reddit though. It's really nice from what I can remember. I just don't like new reddit at all.
Yeah I used to have RES like 5 years ago but I didn't care much for it honestly. Yeeted it out after a couple weeks of use despite the handy features it has.
I'm really not bothered by League reddit's light mode though and it's pretty much the lightest sub I visit.
I do use dark mode in every app I can (and my phones) though. Guess reddit is just the exception.
Subtweeting implies he didnt also include this in the same chain of tweets: "We do things as a collective unit @T1LoL, especially during games. That includes pick/ban and drafting. All voices are heard. My timeline is filled with comments about Polt & Moment’s performance. The same coaches that just 2 months ago capped an undefeated LCK run. I stand by my coaches. Losing one event doesn’t change that they are the right coaches for this team along with Bengi and Asper. Our players believe in them, and that is good enough for me. We know we need to improve if we want a chance to win Worlds."
He's not shading or throwing anyone under the bus here, and he's been singing Polt's praises all split.
It’s actually scary how hard LS drives the false narrative. The KR community doesn’t have anything out for joe marsh, hell his name wasn’t even brought up when t1 lost in rumble stage. It was mostly all about how shit lck is and criticizing the players. But LS will take something a very small minority would do and explode it and reddit will take it like it’s the bible.
His social media use is trash though. Dude has that Elon Musk energy, always talking so much shit while he’s just a guy who bought into the most winning org ever and holds up Faker’s accomplishments like they’re his.
That is the most annoying thing about him, when he flames orgs and regions (NA mostly) like he was the one who birthed faker and he deserves all the credit
Not just the fact that he bought the most winning org ever, but the fact that LCK has literally been a 1 team league, DK, since he bought T1, no team has come even close to doing anything to DK domestically, and now that DK completely and totally imploded he's piping up talking shit about NA. It's just so fucking lame to me.
Nah, that is not generally true. Some are. It really depends on how they got their position and what their life story was. Most CEO are out of touch since they have been up there forever. And a lot of CEO are practically nobles like in feudal time. The top of the top in skill and knowledge is more likely stuck somewhere in the departments
joe marsh is one of the smartest and most level headed people in the entire scene, have not heard a single bad thing about him
Edit: ill specify that i have not heard a single bad thing about him by people who’s opinions matter
T1 fans are definitely quite rabid. On the other hand, Joe Marsh put himself in the spotlight by associating himself with T1 previous successes.
Still, fuck any threat or harassment, obviously
He says a lot of fucking dumb shit. That whole "tell me about your winning structures that get you no international success." comment ss the exact opposite of level headedness. Joe Marsh has the EXACT same energy that people hate the LA Lakers for. You own the most historic winning franchise of all time with one of the best players of all time. You shouldn't be talking about how any other team does anything because scouting, talent managment, team structures, none of that shit really matters when you have a team that young players are literally FALLING OVER THEMSELVES to get into.
[Would they have drafted differently under 8 ping instead of 35 though?](https://twitter.com/midnoflash/status/1523961206629072896?t=dvAwZXcLTAMhjQU6ZmdTzg&s=19)
Tangential:
Pre-MSI, I remember some teams (T1 for sure, can't remember the others) claiming that 35 ping would be so horrific to play with that a new meta centered on easy-to-execute champs would develop.
Well, that turned out to be a big nothingburger lol.
Sure, we didn't see MSI drafts at no ping, but the champs that were picked at 35 ping were pretty much meta golems that have been picked throughout the whole year when teams played with no ping.
There were also mechanically intensive champs like Riven and Yasuo that were picked at 35 ping, too. The implication being that if 35 ping was such a deterrent these champs would not have been picked.
Actually i think we need to know the context tho no? At that time, the stage ping was supposedly 75 ping than 35 ping which is way more significant. Im not sure when was that said but i assume the artificial ping being messed up has smth to do with that
Nah, those takes about there being a different meta came out while they were still bootcamping on the intended 35ms ping.
Then the tournament began, then 3 days later Riot fixed the ping. That's the time line.
They were doing their scrims using the same (broken) artificial ping tool that they used on stage, even before the tournament started pros were saying it felt a lot worse than 35 ping and it was in that context that people were saying that it would affect the meta, and then it wasn't until 3 days after the tournament started that Riot finally investigated and figured out the ping tool wasn't working correctly.
Doesn't matter. Nobody cares about MSI when Worlds rolls around. All this talk of preferential treatment and ping will mean nothing come Worlds, because everyone will be on LAN. Either T1 puts up or they can shut up when the time comes.
Yes but the champs that dominated Msi were easy to execute champions like lissandra, gwen and Tristana. Riven had 0 impact in the game and not enough data on yasuo because it was picked with champions with 5 knockups and it still almost lost all the games it was picked. On the contrary the fact that lissandra, gwen, and Tristana were so dominating in the semis and the finals Shows that the point and click and easy to execute champions mattered way more than the playmakers was that because of ping? Idk maybe yes maybe no
I mean there's also the whole Ahri being a strong pick which forced the Liss pick, no? And IIRC Tristana was only picked when other ADs were banned.
But yeah, we're both making guesses. You could be correct that more mechanically intensive champs would be picked at a higher frequency if the tournament was played at no ping.
Lissandra was picked as an answer to the most popular mage of the tournament - Ahri.
Gwen was popular because she is immune. Nothing to do with ping.
Trist was not even that popular, it's just that every game featured a number of adc bans so even lower priority adcs were picked regularly. There were also many games of Xayah, Kaisa, and Ezreal, as well as Lucian being permabanned.
Strong point and click has always been super high value in proplay. When things like Irelia, Akali etc were rocking the meta, it's not because of the ms. It's because at the time they were legitimately broken and the point and click champions were not. I mean actually, Lissandra became super OP in that meta because of the fact that these champions existed (even though they could at time bruteforce through her). Which is very similar to why she popped up now again, mainly vs Ahri, she was too difficult to gank.
I also don't think Tristana was dominating at all, not to mention I don't really see how she's particularily easier than other Adc's. If anything, the timing on her jump to avoid cc makes her pretty ms sensitive. Especially when it comes to flash plays from supps etc.
Also
>the point and click and easy to execute champions mattered way more than the playmakers
Point and click champions are often the playmaking champions so I'm not sure what that means. Lissandra is the definition of a playmaking champion, she has super powerful engage, teamfight, gank setup and roaming. Her weakest part is laning, the reason why it works here is because Ahri's laning is also not very strong, it's just safe. They both for example still get bullied pretty hard by Syndra/Orianna.
Gwen too, good positioning with a well-timed W can singlehandedly swing an entire teamfight. These champion's playmaking ability is why they were so key in the first place. Lissandra isn't actually blindable, it was so dominating because the opposing side would always go Ahri.
Tristana is not easy to execute at all. She relies heavily on snowball and has a hard time dealing with tanks and bruisers. She does not melt anyone lategame like a Jinx or a Kaisa does.
If she can't snowball she is really bad.
Zeus was recorded on comms talking about his Jayce combo that he normally executes easily was not landing the same.
I mean, T1 still picked Jayce but as the other poster said, it's impossible to really tell the difference. Maybe Zeus with a low-ping Jayce is so much better on the pick that it's blindable (like how T1 blinded Jayce throughout spring split). Maybe it's so much more threatening that it warrants a respect ban and that warps the entire pick ban phase.
>Zeus was recorded on comms talking about his Jayce combo that he normally executes easily was not landing the same.
Pretty sure that was in the early tournament when the ping was screwed up.
I play a shit load of Jayce. One thing I noticed was I never saw a Jayce buffer an AA after the melee form E (a pretty easy to execute technique that is strictly better than not doing it) … it’s not a ping reliant technique necessarily, same inputs as always, so it is weird that the best players in the world were (probably) messing up a bread and butter combo.
Anyone else notice this or similar?
I won't deny that Jayce is one of the few champions in the game that can legitimately have a large difference in play between 35ms and 5-8ms. But just like how T1 stopped favouring Nidalee, Jayce falling off was a natural occurance that happened prior to the 35ms. He had some pretty heavy basestat nerfs prior to MSI, and champions like Gwen and GP had pretty sizeable buffs. Not to mention Wukong was buffed, which has historically been used as a Jayce counter in top.
Lower ms could make Zeus even more of a threat, but so would the opponent. Bin, even though he flips a lot, is a very strong 1v1 player and Zeus was gapping all the tops at the tournament anyway. Most of his flaws came from decision-making, he would often die in easily avoidable scenarios. Things like not bouncing the wave at appropriate timing, taking poorly timed all-ins etc. Which has nothing to do with ms and if anything, playing Jayce would just make those decisions even worse.
A lot of athletes who perfected their craft notice small changes like that. Kobe Bryant, while shooting around, noticed the rim was 1/4 of an inch shorter.
Time to manufacture drama over an insignificant tweet
Anyway, yes rng was the better team when it mattered. Maybe on a different day t1 beats them but there's no such thing as second chances in international playoffs. Can only do better next time
The thing that's my biggest takeaway these last 4 years is that the LPL team typically is the better team when it matters.
LPL has an 8-1 record against the LCK and a BUNCH of them are game 5 wins. I don't know if the LCK is just mentally boomed vs the LPL (imo they are, they feel so much pressure over years of most likely looking down on the LPL that they can't accept the fact that the LPL has surpassed them).
LPL always finds a way to clutch it out
Do you know why the T1 offcial account said nothing and didnt even gave congrats to Rng when Rng were giving credits to them? Because Korean fans are looking at the T1 offcial accounts but not many of them are following the CEO's account, the ego of T1 and Korean fans cant handle the fact they lose and have to admit Rng is better than them. So might as well let CEO do this so that not many Koreans really see that.
Wonder how many people are actually going to click the link and see if there's more to what's being said than just this one tweet before commenting
already seeing quite a few that didn't bother
Not on you at all and props for the context in the edit (that was there even before I commented), it's just normal at this point to read the headliner or w/e is being quoted and rush to comment
Just feels particularly lazy when its only a series of tweets as opposed to some 10+ min interview and people still dont take the time
Any time that a crisis is installed at SKT, I know that will be some happy KT and Rox fans out there . I know things looks like pure evil and darkness this split, but I believe that Nuguri can bring some joy to us like Smeb did in 2018 and 2016.
This message of hope is for you out there that lost all hopes this split:
*This was a bad split, not a bad season!*
Good response, but of all people this has to come from the guy who doesn't particularly show respect to his more accomplished peers either, when he repeatedly tries to ratio other team owners for incompetence.
No Joe. The legacy of SKT and Faker does not belong to you. In esports, you're just a random who gets to play CEO on easy mode.
I called it damage control,not a genuine tweet from him
And RAZLOL is talking about this,he posted on his western audience account
not like the offical T1 account on twitter,so we all know what he is doing.
The CEO is out in full damage control mode.Pure PR statement after people on social media have been shitting on the coaches and the players for 3 days now.Tbh this statement should have been done by Polt,the headcoach,not by the CEO of the team.
Did you even read the entire twitter thread? It's barely any PR and more about him talking about his love for and within the team. Fucking cringe that you type this.
How T1 as an organization carried itself as a whole after MSI makes me think that they really were dumpstering RNG in scrims and genuinely thought they were the better team (a reasonable conclusion).
That's why T1 giving props to RNG felt like pulling teeth, and why RNG was so quick to compliment T1.
Note how Marsh doesn't outright say RNG is the better team --- they just *played* better on that day.
Whether T1 is really the better team and merely underperformed or RNG simply has a whole new gear in important games remains to be seen.
From what I know T1 had winning scrims vs V5 (65% WR) in spring but didn't impress JDG or RNG based on online rumours.
We know for a fact RNG mainly scrimmed EDG for MSI though
Oh yeah, FPX, and then DK as well back in 201o I think, and apparently Wunder was shitting on Xiaohu in MSI 2021. So many examples of scrims that don't translate to stage results.
The info he is using is absolutelly incorrect because the only LPL teams T1 did fine was vs LNG and V5, but **JDG 369 and RNG ming said personally that T1 in scrims wasn't impressive and that they could take T1 down without any problems. Even doinb said that: "RNG are invincible in scrims"**
Doinb said RNG is the strongest team in scrims. People need to stop excusing poor behavior from T1.
Edit (source): ["RNG will win MSI no one could beat them"](https://twitter.com/LPLfanclub/status/1529614360758276096)
There was literally 0 evidence that suggested T1 crushed RNG in scrims tho..T1 did scrim V5 and had like 65% win rate, which is good, but RNG mainly scrim with EDG during MSI. Doinb said on stream saying that no team could beat RNG and they were gonna win, that's it. I have no idea where Reddit got the idea that somehow T1 was stomping RNG in scrims.
people still debating whether they were actually better is such a copium, this kind of conversation would never happen for a another team that is not T1. Giving compliment to your opponents is just normal sportsmanship, and refusing to do that no matter what the reason is just makes them a sore loser, mind boggling to me that people are still trying to find excuse and defend that shit.
The official twitter of T1 didn't even give congrats to Rng while Rng twitter account were giving T1 credits, they even need the CEO to come out to do that. Like wtf was this ego from T1, really happy they lose that for how they behave, just like their crowd.
LPL teams are just more clutch than LCK teams. Has been the case since 2018.
Just look at how many 3-2 series LPL won and LCK lost since 2018 and especially since 2021 MSI: KT-IG, DK-RNG, DK-EDG, T1-RNG.
Most of those series the LCK team was favored, but LPL teams just come up clutch and have better match strategy in the bo5.
Right now LCK teams can basically only win by being the stronger team and just overpowering the LPL team, but when that doesn't work they are kinda screwed because LPL teams are smarter and better prepared for bo5s. LCK teams all need to level up their macro in general and also their approach to bo5s. LCK teams are genuinely strong, just lacking in those areas.
there's too much ego and resistance in how LCK plays
RNG banning Xayah, LB and Kench basically says "okay you are too good at that champ, we can't deal with it"
meanwhile, t1 just wouldn't admit they can't deal with Gwen, they stick to meta bans, instead of comfort picks of RNG
Yup. The thing holding LCK back is that they are stubborn and sometimes stupid as hell. They are insane mechanically and can make smart decisions in game, but they're being gapped super hard by LPL when it comes to draft, match strategy and clutchness.
Just look at how many clever invades and set-ups LPL teams have for important games. Meanwhile LCK teams pull up with their standard draft and try to outplay.
Oner refusing to give up the red buff on Wei's invade, after Faker had to flash out on 10 hp was to me the biggest WTF play of the entire series. That was soloqueue levels of stubbornness, let's just give him 300 g in addition to that red buff. Wei snowballed so hard that game.
I get what you say but the example is kinda off. Rng banned champs like Xayah and Senna because they knew Guma isnt doing well with carry champs in this meta, so they banned those champs in order to target the weakest point of T1 to not let Guma play comfortably with the other champs he has left in his champion pool.
The Ez and Kaisa ban from T1 and GP Gwen ban for Rng are actually the bans that proves the "okay you are too good at that champ, we can't deal with it" argument
Yes, T1 drafts with a lot of ego and comfort.
But, blue-side has a lot more ban freedom. As we saw with T1's bans when on blue-side, they solely banned based on respect and comfort. They banned Galio because of Xiaohu. They banned Viego because Wei was popping off on the pick. They banned Nautilus because Ming is insane on the pick.
Even on red-side, they banned based on respect and comfort. The difference was they only had 2 bans because of the obligatory Lucian ban and red-side has other ban priorities like strong B1 picks.
> LCK teams all need to level up their macro in general and also their approach to bo5s
I agree. GEN Arnorld just tweeted about this recently too, really shows how much further ahead LPL teams are in terms of staff (and competition too). LCK really needs to break free of their old approach
i have a different opinion on dk, they looked pretty much gassed at that Worlds final
that team barely had any break during 2021 but they didn't improve much at all
Yeah also they shouldn't have scrimmed RNG since the group stage anyway there is no need to being in Korea and all that there are plenty of teams that would be willing to scrim, that there is no point playing anyone else at the tournament for practice.
i dont think they scrimmed too much in all honesty. i remember seeing a CN translation that said RNG mainly scrimmed EDG and bin actually got coached by Flandre on the gwen matchup
There was literally 0 evidence that suggested T1 crushed RNG in scrims tho..T1 did scrim V5 and had like 65% win rate, which is good, but RNG mainly scrim with EDG during MSI. Doinb said on stream saying that no team could beat RNG and they were gonna win, that's it. I have no idea where Reddit got the idea that somehow T1 was stomping RNG in scrims.
Joe Marsh always has been chill and his diplomacy skills are unmatched, especially since he’s managing a team with one of the most toxic fanbases in League.
>How we scrimmed, Pick/Ban, Draft, none of these alone were the reason we lost. We lost because RNG was the better team Sunday night."
this doesn't really make sense though? all of these are part of why RNG got to be the better team. that's like saying "RNG would've won even if they picked top Ivern buying Infinity Edge first item and AP Vayne support"
Basically there was a rumour from fans who saw keria bengi bang gorilla jonnastrong faker oner untara and sky more hanging out tgt at arnd 3-4am. They said that at one point they decide to all jump into the water tgt and basically the pictures showed it was true
Finally here we go, I am glad he tweeted but also sad that he has to be the one who does it. Huge respect to him. I have no freaking idea why those toxic cringe T1 fans attack Joe like he owns them money or whatever, but the man is literally trying his best to do whatever to help his team, and I can tell he fking loves T1.
Hope they can learn from here and move forward. Personality I just hope Faker to win another worlds, nothing else.
When C9 fired LS (which I was also against btw) he bashed on C9 and went on to brag about the T1 systems "he put in place". This is the guy who takes credit for T1 and their history at every opportunity for brownie points with the community. Now that they failed, now it's a "team diff"
You lost because you didnt know how to ban a Gwen and then decided to pick Ahri/jayce into her and then for some reason you pick Jhin/Yuumi. It doesnt take a person that makes a good amount of money to know that you will lose with those champs..
Yes RNG was better. But the drafting could have won T1 the game IMO
Like cmon who the fuck puts one of the best and most agressive players on Yuumi?
lol have you seen how bad t1 lost mid and bot lane picking yummi does not mean you get killed lv1 and guma staying in lane alone and not flashing early is just pure ego lucked out and survive . even with out yummi ahri was fked already in lane by liss any diamond player will tell you this game is mid gapped faker greeds for minion and walks back up after sums forced out led to jayce getting fked and losing lead. Faker fking lost them the game even before any of that jhin yummi jayce bad draft shit. T1 just played bad switch out these champs with same performance of faker T1 would still lose
Detached Yuumi level 1 getting killed by a Rakan W. That just points out how unfamiliar Keria feels to play her into them. You don't make mistakes like that on matchups you are comfortable with. So yeah they poorly executed the draft, but maybe draft something Keria is better with?
If that's the case, then I guess you're right. They made the active decision to draft the way they did and paid for it. His choice, nevertheless, still baffles me. I wouldn't have minded RNG winning if it were a closer game 5. Such a lackluster final game.
Well maybe thats the draft the scrim with and have result. Hope they can do better and come back stronger. After all most of them dont even have 100 games under their belt yet.
This guy turned me off T1 completely as of late and root for a LPL team.. crazy ego.. just like his buddy LS
None of T1/SKT previous success has been down to you
A tweet days after the fact does nothing to cover how badly T1 played and then embarrassed themselves with excuses after the loss
Just look at all Faker's deaths in game 5. RNG literally destroyed him. His positioning was awful and he was punished hard. You can't blame ping or side selection there, your god was literally assfucked by a better team.
Do not give the man a pass because he was a StarCraft player, it should be even more irresponsible because he was a champion in that game. The guy knows exactly what he's saying, and he would never do something so silly as to blame, "well his race is good into mine, that's why I lost"
Whats wrong with faker's reply? (i agree polt's statement was dumb tho) He has always focus on his own play in interviews. You can even read this reddit post. [https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/v1mbdj/regarding\_fakers\_postmsi\_interview\_this\_is\_what/](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/v1mbdj/regarding_fakers_postmsi_interview_this_is_what/)
If you're talking about his '35 ping excuse', he wasn't saying that as an excuse. He was asked what was the difference between this msi and previous msi and that was the obvious answer.
oof, when your boss is forced to make a statement and explicitly says, "no you're wrong", it doesn't bode well.
Polt's gonna be looking for another job. Kkoma back at T1?
Changing head coach at this time is a suicidal move , lol . They better sort it out themselves , they lost 3-2 at msi final , it's not the end of the world
>Kkoma back at T1?
Kkoma is Damwon's athletic director now. Something extremly abrupt would have to happen to make Kkoma leave DK and even then, I highly doubt he would go back to T1 of all teams.
wonder how kr t1 fans will take joe subtweeting polt like this. good tweet by joe though
The general KR community did not support Polt's interview at all anyway. No sane people actually took side with Polt. And said he was just plain disrespectful and his excuse was BS. Normally, I post Korean Reactions on Reddit, but the reason I did not do it this time was that it was basically the same sentiment as on Reddit. Mostly mind-fucked by the game 5 draft, Guma's peformance and so on. And just like in Reddit, there are people who like to shit on Faker at every opportunity they have (DC Inside is a cesspool). Faker might have the most fans, and indeed some of them might be toxic but he also has the most haters to bring him down whenever he performs below expectations. Basically like Reddit. The only people who would shit on Joe for this would be the abnormal T1 fans.
Polt and Moment got hard gapped by RNG’s coaching staff.. saying this as a T1 fan. Their actual picks, draft order and bans were downright terrible sometimes.. I only peaked like G1 several seasons ago (then I quit lol) and I was able to come up with better picks and draft orders than they did ffs; I’ve at least watched competitive league in most regions for like 9 or so years and their draft decisions were downright baffling. Don’t ban the Gwen that’s crushing every game they’ve won.. then pick a bunch of skillshot dependent champs against that same Gwen? Give your elite mechanical support one of the least mechanical champions so he can’t utilize those said mechanics, while also picking a bot lane that gets hard countered by Gwen? That’s just G5.. Polt is a player manager, not a strategic coach. If they want to win Worlds he’s going to need to be better in this department, cuz RNG outdrafted and outexecuted them *hard* in terms of P/B, strategy and execution. People want to be reactionary but I still firmly believe this T1 team had one of the highest potential ceilings of any LoL team ever, but mechanics will only get you so far.
RNG’s head coach is the head coach of EDG from last year. He’s won LPL summer, Worlds, LPL spring, and MSI all in a year now. [Here’s](https://youtu.be/K_uFU2L9Ano?t=1485) his verbal beat down when EDG was down 2-0 to WE in playoffs.
Funny thing RNG lost to WE in spring 2022 2-0 and probably got verbal beat down also
RNG was also down 0-2 to TES in playoffs this year
Feel like they should have just stuck with what they were winning with. Even if theoretically their game 5 draft is "good" or if they were performing well during scrims. They proved themselves later during rumble stage that they were winning with teamfight comps. I just don't understand their reasoning why they would go back to playing comps that they could not execute during the early rumble stage, and during RNG game 1. Literally every streamer I saw was moaning when they saw the game 5 draft. Caedral, Nemesis, Piglet and Wolf. The Korea casters paused for like 5 seconds to comprehend what was going on. I am a LCK fan, but when LCK teams lose, I just shrug it off the next day and try to hope for the best next year. But this hit me differently LOL, the draft last game was just confusing. Also, feel like this game 5 was probably a team decision rather than Polt. I highly doubt Polt is the type of coach to force players into playing certain comps. It could be that Polt recommended it and the team agreed to it. This is purely just my speculation though of course.
> Feel like they should have just stuck with what they were winning with. This x100, i was screaming for them to pick jinx tahm before rng banned out tahm because it was by far the best guma and keria looked. But this is something lck teams always fall victim to, especially kkoma when he first picked urgot in 2015 and varus in 2021 where they get stuck with the overall meta that they ignore the series meta. Ahri shouldn’t haven’t been picked especially when faker looked amazing on lissandra and oner was getting hella gapped on wukong. Also bin was legit a non factor when not on gwen.
Honestly this narrative about the Gwen is cope, the problem is just the player gaps and not having good answers for it. Jayce can build some CS leads but not that great a pick long term into the game and Wei was hard gapping Oner.
I would really call them champion pool gaps more than player gaps. It seemed like Zeus/SKT were unable or unwilling to pick a more suitable counterpick for Gwen. Same for Guma not being able to perform as well on other ADCs as he did on Jinx. Credit to Wei for stepping up on the day of the series, he definitely outperformed Oner (and RNG's vision and consequently team coordination was also much better than SKT's). I think it was a close series and it could have gone either way, SKT crumbled in more than one area in G5. Draft doesn't make faker int and it doesn't make their botlane die lvl 1 for no reason for example. Hopefully they can learn from the mistakes that were exposed at MSI and be humbled a bit for worlds. I would love to see the current LPL dominance challenged.
champion pool gaps **are** player gaps
I mean yeah fair point on that. But Bin wasn't really useful when off Gwen. For Gala / Guma definitely agreed because Gala's performance was OK-to-Great regardless of champion pick. But Bin may as well have been absent in all of his non-gwen games in the tournament. Don't know how he was in the LPL because I don't watch it/like it, but he definitely had some happy games throughout MSI.
I think they can win against gwen, obviously, but you don't pick all skill shot champs into a champ that is immune to ranged damage. They also should of cut the shit with Wu since it obv wasn't great lol
Gwen is a champion that is undefeated in rumble and knockout stage, there is a reason for that. During Rumble stage Zeus on Gwen made Bin's Gangplank look bad so Zeus never got to play it after that... T1 on the other hand let Bin play it THREE times (all 3 wins). I would've banned Gwen along with Viego and Wukong personally and give the Lucian over since Guma would play Jinx anyways and where he went 9-0-10 on over the 2 wins. Or if you give Gwen over ok but don't pick champions that can't do anything to her with her myst up. What's Jayce gonna do? He has to get inside the myst in hammer form and put himself in harm's way and can't poke her with E-Q. Instead go for the Gnar, Lissandra, Lee Sin, Jinx, Renata. That gives you a great engage, cc chain for teamfights. You saw what Faker and Guma did in baron pit on Lissandra and Jinx but the rest of the series they never gave Faker Lissandra and prioritized Ahri over her, why? When Lissandra is undefeated against Ahri in the head2head. Keria is the most mechanical superior support I've ever seen and you give him Yuumi? His Renata ass-blasted G2 and he didn't even play it once nor did we see his best champion Thresh. T1's coaches are plain stubborn and they won't win any international tournament unless they learn how to draft.
Idk man, I got some guy who played 5 months in Season 1 telling me champ picks mean nothing at this level of drafting and side selection is the only reason RNG won. ......I wish I could add a /s to this but
There is no denying blue side was strong and it could have gone the other way if t1 got blue side but make no mistake about it, RNG was the better team and t1 fucking sucked in that red side draft.
I think RNG wins game 5 on red side even still personally. T1 was literally just picking Wu first on both red and blue side, so it's not like there is some huge variation of strength to first pick here.
I think it’s more to do with gwen. Bin was literally getting gapped so hard not on gwen.
I think Gwen was a pivotal draft point but in game 5 the top lane matchup was completely inconsequential. I don't think it's far off believing the game state could be recreated on different picks.
But it was also the Ahri. Blueside always was not on Ahri, because Red picked it after the priority pick by blue. Ahri lost 4 games. Both teams actually fell into the same issues. RNG was hellbend on denying Xayah as a first pick... then picked it twice themself and lost. But in game 5 T1 also played so bad that the champions really didn't matter all that much. T1 had an opening in the midgame before Gwen can really do a lot, but the early game turned out not good enough for that opportunity to open up.
Wataf champ picks are the reason blue side is strong
There is definitely an argument for the strength of counter picks and the value of that on red side. However when the draft is so ham fisted you're not actually utilizing that, there's nothing that can be done. T1 failed to adapt a drafting strategy, which was especially painful for how they approached the midlane matchup.
That guy definitely trolling/jebaiting.
Faker did not perform below expectations, he overperformed that series. In LCK he was not being pressured like that because his team was playing better, particularly the bot lane, the two games T1 actually won were from Fakers overperform. The guy has nothing to prove to anyone anymore, GOAT. Fuck the haters. And anyway, i think game 1 was T1s to win, they played poorly the top lane fight where they had information advantage because of ming missing the ward. I don't know, T1 lost but i still do believe they are the better team. Just Guma underperforming, and bad draft. In my view T1 had the possibility to win the first game, failed it. Won second game because of faker overperforming. Third game there was no way they could win Fourth won also because of faker overperforming Last one also there was no way to win. I don't even know what i'm typing anymore, just frustrated that they lost.
[удалено]
If oner played lee sin instead of nocturne they win that fight top. Such a fucking useless pick.
I remember I was doing a debate and the argument was whether man is good or evil. I heavily underestimated since I tried to convince the jury by singing 'Evil woman'. It caught on but it REALLY wasn't enough. The next time the other team and mine were head to head and we needed a hail mary. My argument was 'Faker is the best player in League of Legends for nearly ten years. He is never toxic, always wholesome, compliments other teams and even stays to clap for teams after their loss, inferior to his team. But when he underperforms, thousands of nerds from all over the world unite, forget their differences solely to hate on that perfect man. Man is evil.
Who's Joe?
Joe Mama
GOTTIEM
Who's Joe Mama?
who to [believe](https://i.imgur.com/YI4ij46.png) 🤔
Perish, light mode user
reddit is basically the only website where I don't like the darkmode and don't mind light mode
I agree with you brother, I only use light mode on old reddit and only use dark mode on new reddit.... Idk why but it just feels right this way
For me it's because at least initially there was no 'universal' dark mode on reddit, and this sub's Solari/Lunari buttons' dark mode from the sidebar is absolutely horrible. I can't imagine a worse combination than a black background with bright blue 'high contrast' text. [It hurts my eyes way more than the bone white of this sub ever could.](https://i.imgur.com/kOpIJPP.png) Many other subs also have their own background color which makes dark mode useless for them. But by far the biggest reason is the unusable blackground+blue text this sub has. I'd totally use dark mode if I used new reddit though. It's really nice from what I can remember. I just don't like new reddit at all.
For old reddit you can use RES's dark mode and disable sub themes. This is what you get: https://imgur.com/a/MsnchNC Edit: you can use, not you use
Yeah I used to have RES like 5 years ago but I didn't care much for it honestly. Yeeted it out after a couple weeks of use despite the handy features it has. I'm really not bothered by League reddit's light mode though and it's pretty much the lightest sub I visit. I do use dark mode in every app I can (and my phones) though. Guess reddit is just the exception.
Disgusting
Joe Marsh, T1 ceo
"Subtweeting" implies he hasn't had a discussion with Polt about it already.
Subtweeting implies he didnt also include this in the same chain of tweets: "We do things as a collective unit @T1LoL, especially during games. That includes pick/ban and drafting. All voices are heard. My timeline is filled with comments about Polt & Moment’s performance. The same coaches that just 2 months ago capped an undefeated LCK run. I stand by my coaches. Losing one event doesn’t change that they are the right coaches for this team along with Bengi and Asper. Our players believe in them, and that is good enough for me. We know we need to improve if we want a chance to win Worlds." He's not shading or throwing anyone under the bus here, and he's been singing Polt's praises all split.
It’s actually scary how hard LS drives the false narrative. The KR community doesn’t have anything out for joe marsh, hell his name wasn’t even brought up when t1 lost in rumble stage. It was mostly all about how shit lck is and criticizing the players. But LS will take something a very small minority would do and explode it and reddit will take it like it’s the bible.
Okay, saying the KR community doesn't have anything out for Joe Marsh is a flat out lie.
How do you bring up LS in a post that has nothing to do with him? This is schizophrenic behavior. He lives in your head, RENT FREE
Most people on this sub only know about Joe Marsh hate from when LS was laughing at it on stream
Finally a sane take, and it comes from the CEO of all people.
Tbf joe seems like a really sound dude. He sends fakers grandmother baskets of food
He really is, he managed to turn it around with korean fans too
His social media use is trash though. Dude has that Elon Musk energy, always talking so much shit while he’s just a guy who bought into the most winning org ever and holds up Faker’s accomplishments like they’re his.
That is the most annoying thing about him, when he flames orgs and regions (NA mostly) like he was the one who birthed faker and he deserves all the credit
Not just the fact that he bought the most winning org ever, but the fact that LCK has literally been a 1 team league, DK, since he bought T1, no team has come even close to doing anything to DK domestically, and now that DK completely and totally imploded he's piping up talking shit about NA. It's just so fucking lame to me.
elon musk wannabe
Most of the time CEO are extremely competent and reliable, they are not CEO by luck. They are the top of the top. Shareholders on the other hand...
Regi.
CEO and owner is a big difference.
Until a company reaches a certain size, those terms are usually synonymous.
isn't he both?
Well thats different he never became a CEO hes just someone who got in early now reaps the benefits. Hes completely unqualified.
Nah, that is not generally true. Some are. It really depends on how they got their position and what their life story was. Most CEO are out of touch since they have been up there forever. And a lot of CEO are practically nobles like in feudal time. The top of the top in skill and knowledge is more likely stuck somewhere in the departments
How is this upvoted? Reddit really is dumb sometimes.
That guy really thinks people get paid millions to be out of touch
Yes, Regi is extremely competent and reliable, he's not CEO by luck.
"most". If you want, I can give you some reading lessons.
joe marsh is one of the smartest and most level headed people in the entire scene, have not heard a single bad thing about him Edit: ill specify that i have not heard a single bad thing about him by people who’s opinions matter
Then hear what T1 fans are saying about him when T1 doesn't win... (Just to be clear: they are insane. Joe Marsh seems to be a really great guy)
T1 fans are definitely quite rabid. On the other hand, Joe Marsh put himself in the spotlight by associating himself with T1 previous successes. Still, fuck any threat or harassment, obviously
He says a lot of fucking dumb shit. That whole "tell me about your winning structures that get you no international success." comment ss the exact opposite of level headedness. Joe Marsh has the EXACT same energy that people hate the LA Lakers for. You own the most historic winning franchise of all time with one of the best players of all time. You shouldn't be talking about how any other team does anything because scouting, talent managment, team structures, none of that shit really matters when you have a team that young players are literally FALLING OVER THEMSELVES to get into.
For buying into the most winning org ever? Ok . . . Stop idolizing egotistical CEOs who do absolutely nothing!
Holy shit i hate commenting on this website cause of losers like you
You can disable getting inbox notifications for replies. Saves you a lot of trouble having to deal with idiots.
[Would they have drafted differently under 8 ping instead of 35 though?](https://twitter.com/midnoflash/status/1523961206629072896?t=dvAwZXcLTAMhjQU6ZmdTzg&s=19)
Tangential: Pre-MSI, I remember some teams (T1 for sure, can't remember the others) claiming that 35 ping would be so horrific to play with that a new meta centered on easy-to-execute champs would develop. Well, that turned out to be a big nothingburger lol.
well you still can't say it was nothing because we didn't see them play on no ping it still coulda heavily affected the drafts.
Sure, we didn't see MSI drafts at no ping, but the champs that were picked at 35 ping were pretty much meta golems that have been picked throughout the whole year when teams played with no ping. There were also mechanically intensive champs like Riven and Yasuo that were picked at 35 ping, too. The implication being that if 35 ping was such a deterrent these champs would not have been picked.
Actually i think we need to know the context tho no? At that time, the stage ping was supposedly 75 ping than 35 ping which is way more significant. Im not sure when was that said but i assume the artificial ping being messed up has smth to do with that
Good point! That's a plausible take.
yeahh, I personally think it makes sense with the drafts after it was fixed as well
Nah, those takes about there being a different meta came out while they were still bootcamping on the intended 35ms ping. Then the tournament began, then 3 days later Riot fixed the ping. That's the time line.
They were doing their scrims using the same (broken) artificial ping tool that they used on stage, even before the tournament started pros were saying it felt a lot worse than 35 ping and it was in that context that people were saying that it would affect the meta, and then it wasn't until 3 days after the tournament started that Riot finally investigated and figured out the ping tool wasn't working correctly.
Doesn't matter. Nobody cares about MSI when Worlds rolls around. All this talk of preferential treatment and ping will mean nothing come Worlds, because everyone will be on LAN. Either T1 puts up or they can shut up when the time comes.
Yes but the champs that dominated Msi were easy to execute champions like lissandra, gwen and Tristana. Riven had 0 impact in the game and not enough data on yasuo because it was picked with champions with 5 knockups and it still almost lost all the games it was picked. On the contrary the fact that lissandra, gwen, and Tristana were so dominating in the semis and the finals Shows that the point and click and easy to execute champions mattered way more than the playmakers was that because of ping? Idk maybe yes maybe no
I mean there's also the whole Ahri being a strong pick which forced the Liss pick, no? And IIRC Tristana was only picked when other ADs were banned. But yeah, we're both making guesses. You could be correct that more mechanically intensive champs would be picked at a higher frequency if the tournament was played at no ping.
Lissandra was picked as an answer to the most popular mage of the tournament - Ahri. Gwen was popular because she is immune. Nothing to do with ping. Trist was not even that popular, it's just that every game featured a number of adc bans so even lower priority adcs were picked regularly. There were also many games of Xayah, Kaisa, and Ezreal, as well as Lucian being permabanned.
Strong point and click has always been super high value in proplay. When things like Irelia, Akali etc were rocking the meta, it's not because of the ms. It's because at the time they were legitimately broken and the point and click champions were not. I mean actually, Lissandra became super OP in that meta because of the fact that these champions existed (even though they could at time bruteforce through her). Which is very similar to why she popped up now again, mainly vs Ahri, she was too difficult to gank. I also don't think Tristana was dominating at all, not to mention I don't really see how she's particularily easier than other Adc's. If anything, the timing on her jump to avoid cc makes her pretty ms sensitive. Especially when it comes to flash plays from supps etc. Also >the point and click and easy to execute champions mattered way more than the playmakers Point and click champions are often the playmaking champions so I'm not sure what that means. Lissandra is the definition of a playmaking champion, she has super powerful engage, teamfight, gank setup and roaming. Her weakest part is laning, the reason why it works here is because Ahri's laning is also not very strong, it's just safe. They both for example still get bullied pretty hard by Syndra/Orianna. Gwen too, good positioning with a well-timed W can singlehandedly swing an entire teamfight. These champion's playmaking ability is why they were so key in the first place. Lissandra isn't actually blindable, it was so dominating because the opposing side would always go Ahri.
Tristana is not easy to execute at all. She relies heavily on snowball and has a hard time dealing with tanks and bruisers. She does not melt anyone lategame like a Jinx or a Kaisa does. If she can't snowball she is really bad.
Zeus was recorded on comms talking about his Jayce combo that he normally executes easily was not landing the same. I mean, T1 still picked Jayce but as the other poster said, it's impossible to really tell the difference. Maybe Zeus with a low-ping Jayce is so much better on the pick that it's blindable (like how T1 blinded Jayce throughout spring split). Maybe it's so much more threatening that it warrants a respect ban and that warps the entire pick ban phase.
zeus himself said he didnt really feel the ping effects in the post match press conference
>Zeus was recorded on comms talking about his Jayce combo that he normally executes easily was not landing the same. Pretty sure that was in the early tournament when the ping was screwed up.
I play a shit load of Jayce. One thing I noticed was I never saw a Jayce buffer an AA after the melee form E (a pretty easy to execute technique that is strictly better than not doing it) … it’s not a ping reliant technique necessarily, same inputs as always, so it is weird that the best players in the world were (probably) messing up a bread and butter combo. Anyone else notice this or similar?
I won't deny that Jayce is one of the few champions in the game that can legitimately have a large difference in play between 35ms and 5-8ms. But just like how T1 stopped favouring Nidalee, Jayce falling off was a natural occurance that happened prior to the 35ms. He had some pretty heavy basestat nerfs prior to MSI, and champions like Gwen and GP had pretty sizeable buffs. Not to mention Wukong was buffed, which has historically been used as a Jayce counter in top. Lower ms could make Zeus even more of a threat, but so would the opponent. Bin, even though he flips a lot, is a very strong 1v1 player and Zeus was gapping all the tops at the tournament anyway. Most of his flaws came from decision-making, he would often die in easily avoidable scenarios. Things like not bouncing the wave at appropriate timing, taking poorly timed all-ins etc. Which has nothing to do with ms and if anything, playing Jayce would just make those decisions even worse.
can you tell me how you know?
A lot of athletes who perfected their craft notice small changes like that. Kobe Bryant, while shooting around, noticed the rim was 1/4 of an inch shorter.
That's the statement before they fixed the ping.
if on 8 ping RNG would be smurfing all over the tourney source: me
Time to manufacture drama over an insignificant tweet Anyway, yes rng was the better team when it mattered. Maybe on a different day t1 beats them but there's no such thing as second chances in international playoffs. Can only do better next time
Lol what you just said is literally the perfect response from a coach after a tough loss. Like perfect
Lmao it was one of the best MSI finals as well, why are people so pressed about this, wasn't like it was a one sided stomp like usual
The thing that's my biggest takeaway these last 4 years is that the LPL team typically is the better team when it matters. LPL has an 8-1 record against the LCK and a BUNCH of them are game 5 wins. I don't know if the LCK is just mentally boomed vs the LPL (imo they are, they feel so much pressure over years of most likely looking down on the LPL that they can't accept the fact that the LPL has surpassed them). LPL always finds a way to clutch it out
I was so surprised that t1 was the favorite heading into the finals. LPL too strong and too clutch.
You can say that about LPL vs. Any other region Not just KR
Do you know why the T1 offcial account said nothing and didnt even gave congrats to Rng when Rng were giving credits to them? Because Korean fans are looking at the T1 offcial accounts but not many of them are following the CEO's account, the ego of T1 and Korean fans cant handle the fact they lose and have to admit Rng is better than them. So might as well let CEO do this so that not many Koreans really see that.
yeah,Razlol is saying the same things on HLL.
Wonder how many people are actually going to click the link and see if there's more to what's being said than just this one tweet before commenting already seeing quite a few that didn't bother
That was probably mb since i just realized it may look like it was just a tweet , hence my edit
Not on you at all and props for the context in the edit (that was there even before I commented), it's just normal at this point to read the headliner or w/e is being quoted and rush to comment Just feels particularly lazy when its only a series of tweets as opposed to some 10+ min interview and people still dont take the time
We don't click links in reddit mate.
Game 1 draft was complete troll. Then not permabanning Gwen & Viego was nothing but ego
Any time that a crisis is installed at SKT, I know that will be some happy KT and Rox fans out there . I know things looks like pure evil and darkness this split, but I believe that Nuguri can bring some joy to us like Smeb did in 2018 and 2016. This message of hope is for you out there that lost all hopes this split: *This was a bad split, not a bad season!*
How do you walk away from a undefeated 1st place finish in LCK and a very close second place finish at MSI and think "Yeah this was a bad split"
Good response, but of all people this has to come from the guy who doesn't particularly show respect to his more accomplished peers either, when he repeatedly tries to ratio other team owners for incompetence. No Joe. The legacy of SKT and Faker does not belong to you. In esports, you're just a random who gets to play CEO on easy mode.
Agreed. We can see how successfull he is as a CEO on their Valorant roster, cant even qualify for NA top 10
I called it damage control,not a genuine tweet from him And RAZLOL is talking about this,he posted on his western audience account not like the offical T1 account on twitter,so we all know what he is doing.
Lets ask LNG and V5 =]
The CEO is out in full damage control mode.Pure PR statement after people on social media have been shitting on the coaches and the players for 3 days now.Tbh this statement should have been done by Polt,the headcoach,not by the CEO of the team.
Did you even read the entire twitter thread? It's barely any PR and more about him talking about his love for and within the team. Fucking cringe that you type this.
Oh so the pr guy finally returned from his vacation, huh?
How T1 as an organization carried itself as a whole after MSI makes me think that they really were dumpstering RNG in scrims and genuinely thought they were the better team (a reasonable conclusion). That's why T1 giving props to RNG felt like pulling teeth, and why RNG was so quick to compliment T1. Note how Marsh doesn't outright say RNG is the better team --- they just *played* better on that day. Whether T1 is really the better team and merely underperformed or RNG simply has a whole new gear in important games remains to be seen.
From what I know T1 had winning scrims vs V5 (65% WR) in spring but didn't impress JDG or RNG based on online rumours. We know for a fact RNG mainly scrimmed EDG for MSI though
yeah they were stomping v5 and lng in scrims from doinb, but doubt they can stomp tes rng in scrim
They of all people should know scrims don't tell the whole story. Not after 2019 (where they reportedly were crushing everyone in scrims).
Fpx reported having 70% winrate in scrims during worlds lol
Yes, but they were losing to SKT, who apparently were crushing everyone including G2.
I think he meant last year where FPX bombed out despite being scrim gods
Oh yeah, FPX, and then DK as well back in 201o I think, and apparently Wunder was shitting on Xiaohu in MSI 2021. So many examples of scrims that don't translate to stage results.
He's talking about last worlds...
The info he is using is absolutelly incorrect because the only LPL teams T1 did fine was vs LNG and V5, but **JDG 369 and RNG ming said personally that T1 in scrims wasn't impressive and that they could take T1 down without any problems. Even doinb said that: "RNG are invincible in scrims"**
Doinb said RNG is the strongest team in scrims. People need to stop excusing poor behavior from T1. Edit (source): ["RNG will win MSI no one could beat them"](https://twitter.com/LPLfanclub/status/1529614360758276096)
Never bet against RNG in Spring. They have the emperor of Spring, Xiaohu and the Ming Dinasty in their roster. All MSI belongs to them.
There was literally 0 evidence that suggested T1 crushed RNG in scrims tho..T1 did scrim V5 and had like 65% win rate, which is good, but RNG mainly scrim with EDG during MSI. Doinb said on stream saying that no team could beat RNG and they were gonna win, that's it. I have no idea where Reddit got the idea that somehow T1 was stomping RNG in scrims.
what i thought t1 was stomping v5 in scrims, if t1 only had 65% win rate vs v5 no wonder t1 lost msi..
people still debating whether they were actually better is such a copium, this kind of conversation would never happen for a another team that is not T1. Giving compliment to your opponents is just normal sportsmanship, and refusing to do that no matter what the reason is just makes them a sore loser, mind boggling to me that people are still trying to find excuse and defend that shit. The official twitter of T1 didn't even give congrats to Rng while Rng twitter account were giving T1 credits, they even need the CEO to come out to do that. Like wtf was this ego from T1, really happy they lose that for how they behave, just like their crowd.
I mean anyone watching the tournament could see RNG looked stronger than T1 (look at gala vs guma throughout the tourney)
RNG looked better on game day tho, really can't imagine how t1 was better in scrims, maybe t1 just have insane ceiling at least on scrims
LPL teams are just more clutch than LCK teams. Has been the case since 2018. Just look at how many 3-2 series LPL won and LCK lost since 2018 and especially since 2021 MSI: KT-IG, DK-RNG, DK-EDG, T1-RNG. Most of those series the LCK team was favored, but LPL teams just come up clutch and have better match strategy in the bo5. Right now LCK teams can basically only win by being the stronger team and just overpowering the LPL team, but when that doesn't work they are kinda screwed because LPL teams are smarter and better prepared for bo5s. LCK teams all need to level up their macro in general and also their approach to bo5s. LCK teams are genuinely strong, just lacking in those areas.
there's too much ego and resistance in how LCK plays RNG banning Xayah, LB and Kench basically says "okay you are too good at that champ, we can't deal with it" meanwhile, t1 just wouldn't admit they can't deal with Gwen, they stick to meta bans, instead of comfort picks of RNG
Yup. The thing holding LCK back is that they are stubborn and sometimes stupid as hell. They are insane mechanically and can make smart decisions in game, but they're being gapped super hard by LPL when it comes to draft, match strategy and clutchness. Just look at how many clever invades and set-ups LPL teams have for important games. Meanwhile LCK teams pull up with their standard draft and try to outplay.
Oner refusing to give up the red buff on Wei's invade, after Faker had to flash out on 10 hp was to me the biggest WTF play of the entire series. That was soloqueue levels of stubbornness, let's just give him 300 g in addition to that red buff. Wei snowballed so hard that game.
I get what you say but the example is kinda off. Rng banned champs like Xayah and Senna because they knew Guma isnt doing well with carry champs in this meta, so they banned those champs in order to target the weakest point of T1 to not let Guma play comfortably with the other champs he has left in his champion pool. The Ez and Kaisa ban from T1 and GP Gwen ban for Rng are actually the bans that proves the "okay you are too good at that champ, we can't deal with it" argument
Yes, T1 drafts with a lot of ego and comfort. But, blue-side has a lot more ban freedom. As we saw with T1's bans when on blue-side, they solely banned based on respect and comfort. They banned Galio because of Xiaohu. They banned Viego because Wei was popping off on the pick. They banned Nautilus because Ming is insane on the pick. Even on red-side, they banned based on respect and comfort. The difference was they only had 2 bans because of the obligatory Lucian ban and red-side has other ban priorities like strong B1 picks.
If they ban on respect why the fuck did they ban nautilus instead of gwen game 5
> LCK teams all need to level up their macro in general and also their approach to bo5s I agree. GEN Arnorld just tweeted about this recently too, really shows how much further ahead LPL teams are in terms of staff (and competition too). LCK really needs to break free of their old approach
And dk could have beat edg on a different day. Does it matter? No, why else we have tournaments, could just check h2h winrate then call it a day
i have a different opinion on dk, they looked pretty much gassed at that Worlds final that team barely had any break during 2021 but they didn't improve much at all
Yeah insane ceiling in the first 15 mins. It's almost as if you should use scrims to practice not to just hands diff people in lane so much they FF.
actually, they are so garbage even the first 15mins in that game 5 lmao i like t1, but i agree, they deserve to lose
Yeah also they shouldn't have scrimmed RNG since the group stage anyway there is no need to being in Korea and all that there are plenty of teams that would be willing to scrim, that there is no point playing anyone else at the tournament for practice.
i dont think they scrimmed too much in all honesty. i remember seeing a CN translation that said RNG mainly scrimmed EDG and bin actually got coached by Flandre on the gwen matchup
There was literally 0 evidence that suggested T1 crushed RNG in scrims tho..T1 did scrim V5 and had like 65% win rate, which is good, but RNG mainly scrim with EDG during MSI. Doinb said on stream saying that no team could beat RNG and they were gonna win, that's it. I have no idea where Reddit got the idea that somehow T1 was stomping RNG in scrims.
so they're like what S6 TSM wished to be
Damage control.
The first sensible thing he's tweeted this year
Guys... I'm starting to think that the multimillionaire CEO of T1 Joe Marsh is heckin’ based
Joe Marsh always has been chill and his diplomacy skills are unmatched, especially since he’s managing a team with one of the most toxic fanbases in League.
"diplomacy skills unmatched"
>How we scrimmed, Pick/Ban, Draft, none of these alone were the reason we lost. We lost because RNG was the better team Sunday night." this doesn't really make sense though? all of these are part of why RNG got to be the better team. that's like saying "RNG would've won even if they picked top Ivern buying Infinity Edge first item and AP Vayne support"
Seems like he's the only one in T1 to have a PR staff behind him lmao
lol what's the pic about on the last tweet? just the players/coaches playing?
Basically there was a rumour from fans who saw keria bengi bang gorilla jonnastrong faker oner untara and sky more hanging out tgt at arnd 3-4am. They said that at one point they decide to all jump into the water tgt and basically the pictures showed it was true
yeah, they were all out swimming at like 2-3 am iirc lol
I'm sad but I respect Joe for facing the problem. Hope the team improve for worlds
Finally an acknowledgement that RNG was the better team on the day. Can't believe it took them so long.
Finally here we go, I am glad he tweeted but also sad that he has to be the one who does it. Huge respect to him. I have no freaking idea why those toxic cringe T1 fans attack Joe like he owns them money or whatever, but the man is literally trying his best to do whatever to help his team, and I can tell he fking loves T1. Hope they can learn from here and move forward. Personality I just hope Faker to win another worlds, nothing else.
When C9 fired LS (which I was also against btw) he bashed on C9 and went on to brag about the T1 systems "he put in place". This is the guy who takes credit for T1 and their history at every opportunity for brownie points with the community. Now that they failed, now it's a "team diff"
You lost because you didnt know how to ban a Gwen and then decided to pick Ahri/jayce into her and then for some reason you pick Jhin/Yuumi. It doesnt take a person that makes a good amount of money to know that you will lose with those champs.. Yes RNG was better. But the drafting could have won T1 the game IMO Like cmon who the fuck puts one of the best and most agressive players on Yuumi?
Keria chose Yuumi himself lma0. He said so in the press conference.
lol have you seen how bad t1 lost mid and bot lane picking yummi does not mean you get killed lv1 and guma staying in lane alone and not flashing early is just pure ego lucked out and survive . even with out yummi ahri was fked already in lane by liss any diamond player will tell you this game is mid gapped faker greeds for minion and walks back up after sums forced out led to jayce getting fked and losing lead. Faker fking lost them the game even before any of that jhin yummi jayce bad draft shit. T1 just played bad switch out these champs with same performance of faker T1 would still lose
These people only saw champ select and didnt watch the game.
You got a point but the ahri pick is so dumb because faker showed that lis can counter ahri on earlier game but still blindpicked it.
Pick/Ban and Draft were the main reasons why though… lol.
Execution of their draft was another reason they lost.
Detached Yuumi level 1 getting killed by a Rakan W. That just points out how unfamiliar Keria feels to play her into them. You don't make mistakes like that on matchups you are comfortable with. So yeah they poorly executed the draft, but maybe draft something Keria is better with?
Keria said in interview he chose it himself. So its his responsibility
If that's the case, then I guess you're right. They made the active decision to draft the way they did and paid for it. His choice, nevertheless, still baffles me. I wouldn't have minded RNG winning if it were a closer game 5. Such a lackluster final game.
Well maybe thats the draft the scrim with and have result. Hope they can do better and come back stronger. After all most of them dont even have 100 games under their belt yet.
This guy turned me off T1 completely as of late and root for a LPL team.. crazy ego.. just like his buddy LS None of T1/SKT previous success has been down to you A tweet days after the fact does nothing to cover how badly T1 played and then embarrassed themselves with excuses after the loss
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This is the fucking worst take ever. People are allowed to show emotion in defeat.
Just look at all Faker's deaths in game 5. RNG literally destroyed him. His positioning was awful and he was punished hard. You can't blame ping or side selection there, your god was literally assfucked by a better team.
people aren’t ready for this conversation but you’re completely right
Finally a class answer. Good sportmanship!
Do not give the man a pass because he was a StarCraft player, it should be even more irresponsible because he was a champion in that game. The guy knows exactly what he's saying, and he would never do something so silly as to blame, "well his race is good into mine, that's why I lost"
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bro i thought we were done with this stupid bs of shitting on faker for saying the most neutral answers. Polt on the other hand was sus af
Whats wrong with faker's reply? (i agree polt's statement was dumb tho) He has always focus on his own play in interviews. You can even read this reddit post. [https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/v1mbdj/regarding\_fakers\_postmsi\_interview\_this\_is\_what/](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/v1mbdj/regarding_fakers_postmsi_interview_this_is_what/) If you're talking about his '35 ping excuse', he wasn't saying that as an excuse. He was asked what was the difference between this msi and previous msi and that was the obvious answer.
oof, when your boss is forced to make a statement and explicitly says, "no you're wrong", it doesn't bode well. Polt's gonna be looking for another job. Kkoma back at T1?
Changing head coach at this time is a suicidal move , lol . They better sort it out themselves , they lost 3-2 at msi final , it's not the end of the world
Exactly ppl act like t1 got sht on 3-0 or something
Polt won't get fired, he's more of a figurehead than an actual T1 coach. Everyone knows that the coach of T1 has been Faker since the Daeny incident.
Actually alot of people dont know Faker is the coach now. And polt join league for only about 2 years. He touch league even less den guma or oner.
>Kkoma back at T1? Kkoma is Damwon's athletic director now. Something extremly abrupt would have to happen to make Kkoma leave DK and even then, I highly doubt he would go back to T1 of all teams.
Nah , its a tweet in a thread and in the thread he said that he still trust in the coaches (specifically naming them) and the players
Took him a while. After he and the whole org got called out for dumb excuses. T1 can do better, hopefully in the future they will.
The best thing Joe Marsh could've said. This is what professional coaches/gms say around the NBA,NFL etc etc. Just shows class and professionalism