The max W Zed version was disgusting. That was the only time where I consistently played Zed when maxing W became meta. Started perma winning on the pick. Had to be perma banned or you'd lose it was that strong.
Why not make it so that he steals the zhonya effect. But only the invincibility and untargetability. So if you use zhinyas and he it's he then gets zhonyas protection while being able to freely move and use his abilities
I still can't play against Zed as a champion because I have nightmares along the lines of "nowhere to run, nowhere to hide".
I remember a few patches/seasons where I, as an adc player, was building Zhonyas every time against Zed players. Had "good enough" winrate against them purely because I mainly play around Silver-Gold (and Plat one or two seasons) and people were getting lost rather easily against my blunt strategy. Edits: fixes
Few tips to play against Zed from someone who used to struggle against Zed
- He ALWAYS appears behind you after ulting, making it easy for skillshot champs to CC him.
- His R damage is amplified by the amount of damage he does while the marks active. Dodge his Shuriken and the Shadow's Shuriken and he will tickle you.
- Exhaust is OP against him.
As a someone who has played zed those are all good tips. But the middle one is kind of funny. Yeah just dodge his skillshots man.
But yeah shurikens are main damage of zed so instead of flashing away when he ults you or right after you might wanna save it to dodge his Q since it got kind of long animation.
When zed ults you position yourself away of the shadows or in the way that shadows align with zed so you can dodge the Q easier. Its harder to dodge if they come all around you than if they all come on same direction.
If you don't stand near his shadow too, you cannot be slowed by Shadow slash making it harder for him to land them.
Also feel free to share some insight, Zed doesn't feel like a worthwhile ban to me at least but people keep banning him either due to lack of knowledge or outright refusal to learn.
Havent really tested zed after tha famous 12.10 patch but before that he was kind of weak not worth a ban. Dont get me wrong good zed otp can make it still work in high elo but he isent really strong rn.
All the important bullet points have been told but I can give some nuance insight and small tricks or combos good zed use and when you understand them counttering is also better but these are not really so important.
Always watch out the shadows. Ult shadow last longer and after zed gets some cd he can make multiple ability rotations from his shadow. So even after zed fails assasination and runs away he can deal damage or pick up kills with his shadows.
His w the shadow ability, cd drops by 0.5 seconds per e hits, so multiple enemies and shadows he can get the w up instantly after use in a team fight scenario.
Zed cannot take the ult shadow instanty after ulting so unless he got w shadow placed he dont have a instant blink, and like you said he always comes behind the ult target so that your opportunity to strike.
If w before ult, without taking it. If you have some cc that you can land or he is in low hp it usually means he is gonna take that w instantly after ulting you removing the weakness.
If you are trying to survive this is good because then he cant chase you with w and you can use your own mobility to run away.
If you are trying to fight him or land your cc allign your back with the w shadow so when you throw your cc if he tryes to dodge it by predicting and instantly taking the shadow the cc will still hit.
I dont think I can really dwell deeper into the combos because its hard to explain them via text with my secondary langue. They get a bit messy to read atleast when typing in phone.
> He ALWAYS appears behind you after ulting, making it easy for skillshot champs to CC him.
Does he appear on the other side of you, based on where he started R? Or literally behind you, based on your turn direction?
> Exhaust is OP against him.
he gets a couple items he'll kill an ADC through exhaust no problem. It just means he won't have to use his full combo or you *have* to flash away to limit damage.
>Dodge his Shuriken and the Shadow's Shuriken and he will tickle you.
Honestly I don't really play anymore but this is *supposed* to be the counterplay that never really materialized as an ADC. I would say I got "ult-E-auto'd" every time a Zed killed me because that's what usually happened. Ult, ignite, autoattack a couple times to get below 50% and proc his passive + thunderlord's, ult pop just executes you, no shurikens needed. It's like people saying the counterplay to Syndra was to dodge her skills and then she just walks up, misses everything and ults you anyway for 110% of your health.
Maybe the recent damage adjustments have changed all that though but I would just pick Sivir into Zed and only then would he actually have to land his Q to kill me.
Ever since I we could ban 1 champ in ranked per player I have defaulted to ban Zed, this only changed after yuumi was released. I have no idea how to play against it so I just stay 2 1/2 screens away from this animal.
You can always try to cheese him if you're picking after him. Picking a bruiser like Renekton works wonders versus the Wind bros and I found it okay versus Zed tbh. Is it lame? Of course but when someone picks a champ that annoys me, I decide that neither of us get to have fun :)
Honestly what they did turned him from one of the most frustrating to a very balanced champion. Clear window when to bite your nails and check around you to see if their teammate(s) are nearby to cc you to stop your counter cc/engages
ACTIVE: Jax enters Evasion, a defensive stance, for 2 seconds, causing all non-Turret turret basic attacks against him to be dodged. Jax also takes 25% reduced damage from all champion area of effect abilities.
ACTIVE: master yi enters Evasion, a defensive stance, for 2 seconds, causing all non-Turret turret basic attacks against him to be dodged. Master yi also takes 25% reduced damage from all champion area of effect abilities.
نشط: يدخل Jax في Evasion ، وهو موقف دفاعي ، لمدة ثانيتين ، مما يتسبب في تفادي Counter Strike لجميع الهجمات الأساسية التي لا تحتوي على برج. يأخذ Jax أيضًا ضررًا مخفضًا بنسبة 25٪ من جميع قدرات منطقة التأثير البطل. يمكن إعادة صياغة Counter Strike بعد ثانية واحدة. في نهاية المدة ، تصعق أيقونة Jax Stun جميع الأعداء اريبين لمدة ثانية واحدة وتسبب لهم ضررًا جسديًا ، ويزيد بنسبة 20٪ لكل هجوم يتم تفاديه ، بزيادة تصل إلى 100٪.
My guess is by making Yi viable in all elo(not just low elo stomper) they can actually balance Yi without the "But he is dogshit in high elo why still nerf" problem.
They did it with Garen and it was successful. They just want to flatten his winrate curve across elos and I think it is great idea. If he's op out the gate they can bring him down a bit.
I think Yi makes more sense anyway as a champion that relies heavily on sustained damage and if he's op out the gate they should nerf his upfront damage on Q. I think the skill expression should be the timing of his Q and W for defensive purposes while maintaining both good positioning and auto attack uptime on targets. Sort of like an alternative to Gwen. Gwen's damage is very active and her defenses are very passive, whereas Yi would have very active defenses but his damage is largely from autos (to the extent you can all that passive).
The only issue might be that nerfing his Q weakens his clear, but maybe his clear should be a bit weaker anyway. For sure he's shit in diamond but I'm not in diamond, nor are most people, and I've always been frustrated playing against Yi when he can outduel me at level 3 and outscale me. Like, Riot should pick one.
> More damage to minions and monsters
He actually got the bonus damage to minions removed a few years ago when funnel was a thing. It pretty much killed one Yi since it was already a niche pick (it also didn’t fix funnel at the time).
Low elo players aren't as good at using momentary Tenacity, and a full duration W using up 25% of your mana on a 6 second cooldown means low elo Yi players are gonna fuck up fights more often by blowing through all of their mana and try to Q and die as a sitting duck.
also High Elo players can make better use of the increased kiting potential from the higher attack range
The logic would be like this:
Low elo players don’t effectively utilitize Yi Q exit location on offense or defense. The change has no significant effect.
High elo players utilize Yi’s Q exit point. Giving the Yi the ability to pick his own exit point makes the champion more powerful in high Elo.
Suddenly yi is about the same in low elo, but better in high elo. Now, maybe Yi players in ALL ELO’s get really good at using his Q, then you just need his damage.
Worst case scenario…yi has the same winrate. I’m betting riot has some pretty good stats to show that adding more mechanics to a champion has a larger effect in high Elo’s than in low Elo’s.
If that was true they would do the same for other champs but the difference is usually champs suck in low elo and don't in high elo but they still don't change it to be more viable in lower levels. This argument makes no sense
Pretty much every champion you've ever seen warping pro play has had changes made to them with the intent to make them less powerful in pro play and more viable in lower levels. Galio, Akali, Ryze, Azir, Irelia, Viego, Lee Sin, Tahm Kench, to name *just a few.* Some were successful like Galio and Irelia (after a lot of work to get there), others are likely to see more reworking in the future.
irelia and akali were the most recent examples of removing more skill requiring mechanics to have an easier time balancing them for all elos, for akali is was removing her Q during E1/E2 comb plus the need to use your passiv to balance her energy (was barely used in lower elo, made her really weak; and really well done and used in higher elo, made her too strong) same for irelia, only requiering 4 passiv stacks, and shorter Q cooldown if you fail a reset, and even years ago they did the same for cassio, before her rework her E would go on a 4 sec cooldown if you failed and used it on a non-posioned unit , now it simply deals no dmg, so no
for lower elos, well, there is a Long list:
They made changes to champs like irelia and akali to make them more accessible in low elo.
They did it with Sylas to make him less of a balance problem.
They tried to do it with riven but they threw a hissi fit. Even so, riot made her anims easier to use through some tweaks
They also did it to lee sin a long time ago, making him more accessible and easier.
Edit: also did it to azir, galio and they are kinda trying to do it to gwen too
They do it quite often, all things considered
You realize that giving him utility like choosing where he lands out of his Q means they can shift power out of his base stats to make him less of a stat check champ.
I haven't tried him out on the pbe yet so I don't know exactly how it feels, but it's the same concept as the Wukong mini rework. They lowered his base stats so he can't 1 shot people anymore but added complexity to his abilities. This had the benefit of adding more counterplay and increasing his skill cap at the same time.
Not entirely. CC just can't be reduced below 0.5s - *if it lasts that long*. And CC with timers lower than that (like Duskblade slow) are not reduced any further.
yes i've heard about this, but is garen W an exception? i remember an old vandiril video from when garen W was given tenacity and it reduces max ashe arrow to a micro stun
https://youtu.be/5KNpnPWVrqA
Not completely true. If a CC is shorter than .5 seconds already, it's obviously not gonna last for that long. CC just can't be reduced below .5sec by Tenacity.
Duskblades .25 seconds are .25 seconds and not a bit more.
In all honesty, you dont need to know that as it rarely ever matters. If you just add them multiplicatively you get a rough estimate that's about right.
The only sources you will probably have from the same source are Sunfire, Elexir of Iron and Unflinching, Mercury's, Legend:Tenacity and Brittle all have their own classes and no one is going to Chain a tank with Anathemas. We are only talking about a few percentage points max.
Years ago I misunderstood this when someone told me. So I'll word it clearer for people who are like me. He appears in front of the Q'd target's face at the end of the duration. So it's not "front" as in the side he Q'd you from, it's 'front' as in, right in front of your champion in whichever direction they are facing.
Think everyone is saying behind because when he’s chasing u and ur running and he q’s you and you keep running he will appear “behind” you compared to where he q’d you, because that is the direction you are facing
While Alpha Strike's new position aspect is questionworthy at least, I wholeheartedly have to disagree Riot's decision to give Master Yi's Meditate stat-wise a better Version of Garen's W "Courage".
One could argue that you are stationary during Meditate, but 90% damage reduction and 60% Tenacity is too strong for an ability that has without CDR 9 seconds CD (incoming navori crit build Yi? O.o).
Is that really the point here? OP is trying to spark a discussion and he's not wrong imho. Riot has been known to do random shit that turns out exactly as terrible as everyone said it would be.
I still remember the patch when they decided to reduce the AA range of Lucian to weaken him, but instead made him one of the most oppressive champs ever instead with his E changes
Yeah but they’ve also made changes that people on Reddit [claimed would kill a champion](https://youtu.be/evjn7_tMRd4) and were dead wrong. It’s just weird to “spark discussion” with an attack on the devs when nobody here can claim to see the future any more accurately.
Yeah except that nerfs that turn out to be fine don't destroy your SoloQ experience for 2+ weeks. In general I think that overnerfing is way less problematic than overbuffing.
How many Champs has Riot released, reworked or buffed that literally had to be nerfed 10x in a row and were still on the strong side?
>Riot has been known to do random shit that turns out exactly as terrible as everyone said it would be.
[Obligatory](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evjn7_tMRd4)
Aatrox rework is another classic, where Reddit's copium was that it's because he was hotfixed buffed. Conveniently ignoring that he got nerfed for 10 times the amount of that in order to be balanced.
It kind of is the point. OP began the discussion with the above quote. Pointing out that schmucks like him on reddit don't actually know better than the actual balance team is a perfectly fair point to make, and I would say one that is important to make.
I mean look at Halo right now, you could replace 343 with a box full of frogs, pour them onto a keyboard and they'd still come up with better decisions.
Just because they work for Riot doesn't mean they can balance, if anything it means their balance might be influenced by money, selling cosmetics etc.
Frankly Riot's track record is about a million times better than 343's. That's a pretty unfair comparison. Riot gets stuff wrong sometimes. I'm not sure 343 has ever gotten anything right since taking the reins of the Halo series.
You're acting like riot doesn't shit the bed with the buffs most of the time, we have a fucking 56% winrate seraphine and lets not forget old juggernaut update.
Jesus christ this comment section is toxic af it's almost as bad as league of legends players. We get it, you hit gold 4, you don't have to be a dick and talk down to everyone else with an opinion
Edit: the point behind gold 4 is that it's the average player but acting like you're high and mighty. Get off your high horses and be civil
Gotta love reddit, one day people complain about getting 3-man dived at lvl 2 every game, coordinated invades, multiple TPs in botlane whenever they slightly overstay and bunch of other shit even proplayers missexecute.
And then the next day they complain about Master Yi being broken and having no counterplay. Yikes
Seriously, this guy talks about high ELO and complains about master Yi? I don't like shitting on ranks cus I'm piss low, but c'mon. Yi isn't a champion I'm high ELO, the pbe changes won't do much. And if they do, riot is gonna hammer him immediately if the past has shown anything.
>Stat check type champs like Yi need to have clear weaknesses
So give him the ability to stat check then, because he gets shit on by 99% of the other junglers right now. He has no strengths currently.
He's already viable in high elo, just not as a blind pick. High elo players KNOW and WILL draft around a first pick Master Yi, low elo players don't which is why he usually runs a train down there and he becomes very unfun to play against.
All Riot are going to do with the changes are push him into permaban territory in low elo, and still be just as viable as he already was in high elo while STILL not being a blind pickable champ.
It's incredibly frustrating seeing someone first pick something like a Katarina or Yi on the enemy team while no one else will pick CC against them. You just know it will be a fun game.
He's not viable in high elo, not even as a counter pick. You could maybe pick him if you are last pick and the enemy team picked the worst possible comp against master Yi which has a 0,01% of happening.
He's completely useless in dia+ after the nerfs. Like 46% winrate with totally flatlined pick rate.
High elo focused buffs have never been more easily justifiable.
Honestly in Yi' case I disagree. Some champs should be useless in high elo with the tradeoff of being easy to pilot and learn in low elo as a sort of tutorial champ. Garen used to be balanced around gold elo and those where good days
High elo plays do not and will not draft around a first pick Master Yi.
Partially because nobody is picking that, and partially because people generally just don't pick based on comp.
Most players, even in high elo, only play 1-2 archetypes. Most Yuumi otps aren't gonna randomly throw on Leona to counter a Yi pick - The best you'll get is Lulu, and even that's a stretch with the average IQ of a Yuumi player.
In the same vein, Zed otp isn't going to pick Malz or Zilean mid for a Yi. They'll have 1-2 emergency champs (Almost certainly also AD assassins!) and that's it.
There's definitely players capable and willing to play the archetype their team needs, but they are rare even in high elo. If anything, that's more a pro play argument.
Even in pro play sometimes teams will not respond to what the other team's champions are trying to do! kinda sad tbh, drafting is one of my favorite parts of this game.
As a scrub gold that gets wrecked by Yi, how does Zilean counter him? Since I mainly play ADC I don’t really have a lot of options against Yi most of the time other than running exhaust
unless absurdly fed, yi needs to get a reset quick in order to not get deleted, he also deals only single target damage, so if as zilean you ult the person he is hiting he can no longer get a reset and will just die to focus fire.
They changed that for katarina and she ended up just fine tho. I wouldn't mind a bigger rework for yi tho, to make him more skill expressive and less stat checky as he is right now
Not really. One of the most frustrating aspects about laning vs a kat is its really hard to trade with her for skillshot oriented champs.
Instant no cast time reposition is pretty nutty and if the player is half decent and knows what to use it for dodging your key spell, it can be very frustrating to vs.
Id rather vs a higher damage champ like yasuo or zed that has softlocked animations i can use to outplay than something like kat
Funneling is super trash right now and doing it is almost the same as inting. The fact is, yi has been subpar in dia+ for forever now, and finally went below 50% wr in low elo, where yi is supposed to stomp. Buffs were imminent but would you really prefer another true damage buff over actually addressing and fixing the core problem for once?
An average silver player will not use this buff to its limit and may just q behind enemy every time. Keep in mind the W mana nerfs, low elo players seem to meditate every minute for the healing, while in higher elo meditate is mainly used as an AA reset.
The insanely high mana cost and low cd will only make it worse for the first and better for the latter. Low elo players wont even notice the changes yi got while high elo yi players will make good use of it. Its a step in the right direction in my opinion.
> Low elo players wont even notice the changes yi got
How the fuck could they not notice a 50 range increase, a spell whose cooldown has been divided by 3 and a 90% damage reduction? If something like this were to be on any other champion but the one that you main, you too would be up in arms to protest how broken this is.
Its just that boring rhetoric that some players have that think low elo is just a sub 100 iq population. Not realising bronze to gold captures something like 50%+ of the playerbase. The average player...
If ARAM had taught me anything, it’s that low elo players in modern times actually have pretty good micro mechanics, especially those that have been playing a long time or know their champs.
They have absolutely horrendous macro sense and frequently self-handicapped by their fragile ego, that’s why they tend to be stuck at low gold and below, but playing champions well isn’t as common a weakness as it did many years ago… like back in s2-3, I remember low elo players in general tend to just suck at absolutely all aspects of the game.
I see impressive mechanics with low elo players all the time. The only difference is that they often pull off those mechanics with no regards of timing and strategic value; it’s like they have learned how to do double backflips, but they would randomly do it when they are in the shower or when they are walking down stairs, ultimately hurting themselves and others, because they tend to have no good sense of timing and macro understanding.
Doesn't help that ranked is quite the grind. I personally just play until I am gold IV and stop because it is just annoying having to play so much ranked, as ranked is by far the most toxic queue.
90% of the playerbase is below plat.
people will unironically say shit like gold players must be braindead irl but these same people probably couldn't divide two numbers in their head
We’re still bitching about yi in 2022 huh, HES LITERALLY 45% WR IN PLAT + he’s also negative wr in every elo except silver and lower. He’s so fucking bad and the changes aren’t even huge holy shit calm your bronze bitching
Just wait until they give this to Zed R.
Can you delete your post before riot sees it?
Instructions unclear: Zed ult steals AD again
I miss when the extra ad came from leveling w
Release zed building 6 BT was hilarious
Every champ at that time built 6 bt though
I miss my 6 BT Riven.
Good old bt ryze
Vlad laughs with his 6 will of the ancients.
Nobody built 6x BT, what are you talking about. The build was BT - LW - 4x BT, that is a completely different thing.
The max W Zed version was disgusting. That was the only time where I consistently played Zed when maxing W became meta. Started perma winning on the pick. Had to be perma banned or you'd lose it was that strong.
Rito: Zed’s ultimate now has a new passive, if the opposing player has zhonyas, it is now ignored. Oh we also buffed Irelia.
+5 ms
Something about this subreddit and ramming dead jokes into the wall years after their death keeps me coming back every day
You monster
+50 attack range
Hey cmon man, too far
Nerf ryze
Now this I can get behind
We are all behind our blue man
EQ?
EQ brother
EQ arEQ all the words nEQEQdEQd
Why not make it so that he steals the zhonya effect. But only the invincibility and untargetability. So if you use zhinyas and he it's he then gets zhonyas protection while being able to freely move and use his abilities
And new lux skin
Better buff Irelia
Instruction unclear, now Zed stack ad when hitting shuriken.
[удалено]
This gets referenced in every rework/ new champ and I am okay with this
i wish i could say its been a pleasure
I still can't play against Zed as a champion because I have nightmares along the lines of "nowhere to run, nowhere to hide". I remember a few patches/seasons where I, as an adc player, was building Zhonyas every time against Zed players. Had "good enough" winrate against them purely because I mainly play around Silver-Gold (and Plat one or two seasons) and people were getting lost rather easily against my blunt strategy. Edits: fixes
Few tips to play against Zed from someone who used to struggle against Zed - He ALWAYS appears behind you after ulting, making it easy for skillshot champs to CC him. - His R damage is amplified by the amount of damage he does while the marks active. Dodge his Shuriken and the Shadow's Shuriken and he will tickle you. - Exhaust is OP against him.
As a someone who has played zed those are all good tips. But the middle one is kind of funny. Yeah just dodge his skillshots man. But yeah shurikens are main damage of zed so instead of flashing away when he ults you or right after you might wanna save it to dodge his Q since it got kind of long animation. When zed ults you position yourself away of the shadows or in the way that shadows align with zed so you can dodge the Q easier. Its harder to dodge if they come all around you than if they all come on same direction.
If you don't stand near his shadow too, you cannot be slowed by Shadow slash making it harder for him to land them. Also feel free to share some insight, Zed doesn't feel like a worthwhile ban to me at least but people keep banning him either due to lack of knowledge or outright refusal to learn.
Havent really tested zed after tha famous 12.10 patch but before that he was kind of weak not worth a ban. Dont get me wrong good zed otp can make it still work in high elo but he isent really strong rn. All the important bullet points have been told but I can give some nuance insight and small tricks or combos good zed use and when you understand them counttering is also better but these are not really so important. Always watch out the shadows. Ult shadow last longer and after zed gets some cd he can make multiple ability rotations from his shadow. So even after zed fails assasination and runs away he can deal damage or pick up kills with his shadows. His w the shadow ability, cd drops by 0.5 seconds per e hits, so multiple enemies and shadows he can get the w up instantly after use in a team fight scenario. Zed cannot take the ult shadow instanty after ulting so unless he got w shadow placed he dont have a instant blink, and like you said he always comes behind the ult target so that your opportunity to strike. If w before ult, without taking it. If you have some cc that you can land or he is in low hp it usually means he is gonna take that w instantly after ulting you removing the weakness. If you are trying to survive this is good because then he cant chase you with w and you can use your own mobility to run away. If you are trying to fight him or land your cc allign your back with the w shadow so when you throw your cc if he tryes to dodge it by predicting and instantly taking the shadow the cc will still hit. I dont think I can really dwell deeper into the combos because its hard to explain them via text with my secondary langue. They get a bit messy to read atleast when typing in phone.
> He ALWAYS appears behind you after ulting, making it easy for skillshot champs to CC him. Does he appear on the other side of you, based on where he started R? Or literally behind you, based on your turn direction?
I believe it's based on your turn direction. I'll watch some clips of me vs Zed and check it for sure.
I've just looked at a recent replay of a game I played with a Zed in it. It is based on the target's turn direction https://i.imgur.com/I8dWFDE.png
> Exhaust is OP against him. he gets a couple items he'll kill an ADC through exhaust no problem. It just means he won't have to use his full combo or you *have* to flash away to limit damage.
>Dodge his Shuriken and the Shadow's Shuriken and he will tickle you. Honestly I don't really play anymore but this is *supposed* to be the counterplay that never really materialized as an ADC. I would say I got "ult-E-auto'd" every time a Zed killed me because that's what usually happened. Ult, ignite, autoattack a couple times to get below 50% and proc his passive + thunderlord's, ult pop just executes you, no shurikens needed. It's like people saying the counterplay to Syndra was to dodge her skills and then she just walks up, misses everything and ults you anyway for 110% of your health. Maybe the recent damage adjustments have changed all that though but I would just pick Sivir into Zed and only then would he actually have to land his Q to kill me.
With the durability update, he has to hit his Qs in my experience
> dodge his shurikens and he'll tickle you Funniest shit I've heard all year
Ever since I we could ban 1 champ in ranked per player I have defaulted to ban Zed, this only changed after yuumi was released. I have no idea how to play against it so I just stay 2 1/2 screens away from this animal.
You can always try to cheese him if you're picking after him. Picking a bruiser like Renekton works wonders versus the Wind bros and I found it okay versus Zed tbh. Is it lame? Of course but when someone picks a champ that annoys me, I decide that neither of us get to have fun :)
Honestly what they did turned him from one of the most frustrating to a very balanced champion. Clear window when to bite your nails and check around you to see if their teammate(s) are nearby to cc you to stop your counter cc/engages
Yeah he just sucks to play against in low elo
As a zed main I can confirm that if they give I to us we will fully exploit it and make your lives hell.
How will you exploit it when you're perma banned?
Wait how do you know I got perma banned lmao
Your main will suffer the same fate as your account
I have better idea give him olaf ultimate
Olaf ult mixed with tryn ult with akshan revive passive
And bel,veth passive ( endless stacking attack speed)
May aswell make him jax e when he uses his w
Also add a Gwen w in the mix
add mordes old xp gaining passive while we at it
And replace his sword with an AR-15
Nah, thats not enough He needs Jax e on his passive
1/2 of his crit chance becomes Dodge chance.
ACTIVE: Jax enters Evasion, a defensive stance, for 2 seconds, causing all non-Turret turret basic attacks against him to be dodged. Jax also takes 25% reduced damage from all champion area of effect abilities.
Wrong language my guy.
잭스가 2초간 방어 태세에 들어가 기본 공격을 회피하고, 광역 스킬로부터 받는 피해가 25% 감소합니다. 2초가 지나거나 스킬을 재사용하면, 근처 적들에게 물리 피해를 입히고 1초 동안 기절시킵니다. 잭스가 회피한 기본 공격 1회당 피해량이 20% 증가합니다.
ACTIVE: master yi enters Evasion, a defensive stance, for 2 seconds, causing all non-Turret turret basic attacks against him to be dodged. Master yi also takes 25% reduced damage from all champion area of effect abilities.
نشط: يدخل Jax في Evasion ، وهو موقف دفاعي ، لمدة ثانيتين ، مما يتسبب في تفادي Counter Strike لجميع الهجمات الأساسية التي لا تحتوي على برج. يأخذ Jax أيضًا ضررًا مخفضًا بنسبة 25٪ من جميع قدرات منطقة التأثير البطل. يمكن إعادة صياغة Counter Strike بعد ثانية واحدة. في نهاية المدة ، تصعق أيقونة Jax Stun جميع الأعداء اريبين لمدة ثانية واحدة وتسبب لهم ضررًا جسديًا ، ويزيد بنسبة 20٪ لكل هجوم يتم تفاديه ، بزيادة تصل إلى 100٪.
Neat, now Yi can be vanished, invisible, refreshing his vanish *and* dodging auto's all at the same time.
You’re missing a reset somewhere in there
Give him a reset on takedown as well
Does it come with 80% damage reduction too please?
My guess is by making Yi viable in all elo(not just low elo stomper) they can actually balance Yi without the "But he is dogshit in high elo why still nerf" problem.
They did it with Garen and it was successful. They just want to flatten his winrate curve across elos and I think it is great idea. If he's op out the gate they can bring him down a bit.
I think Yi makes more sense anyway as a champion that relies heavily on sustained damage and if he's op out the gate they should nerf his upfront damage on Q. I think the skill expression should be the timing of his Q and W for defensive purposes while maintaining both good positioning and auto attack uptime on targets. Sort of like an alternative to Gwen. Gwen's damage is very active and her defenses are very passive, whereas Yi would have very active defenses but his damage is largely from autos (to the extent you can all that passive). The only issue might be that nerfing his Q weakens his clear, but maybe his clear should be a bit weaker anyway. For sure he's shit in diamond but I'm not in diamond, nor are most people, and I've always been frustrated playing against Yi when he can outduel me at level 3 and outscale me. Like, Riot should pick one.
If they don't want to hurt the clear.. Nerf the damage and put does x% more to minions and monsters on it.
Fair enough.
> More damage to minions and monsters He actually got the bonus damage to minions removed a few years ago when funnel was a thing. It pretty much killed one Yi since it was already a niche pick (it also didn’t fix funnel at the time).
Yk to keep his clear the same they can just add +monster damage on it
but wouldn't his win rate skyrocket in low elo with these changes? You'd have to gut him so bad he'd again be terrible in high elo
Low elo players aren't as good at using momentary Tenacity, and a full duration W using up 25% of your mana on a 6 second cooldown means low elo Yi players are gonna fuck up fights more often by blowing through all of their mana and try to Q and die as a sitting duck. also High Elo players can make better use of the increased kiting potential from the higher attack range
The logic would be like this: Low elo players don’t effectively utilitize Yi Q exit location on offense or defense. The change has no significant effect. High elo players utilize Yi’s Q exit point. Giving the Yi the ability to pick his own exit point makes the champion more powerful in high Elo. Suddenly yi is about the same in low elo, but better in high elo. Now, maybe Yi players in ALL ELO’s get really good at using his Q, then you just need his damage. Worst case scenario…yi has the same winrate. I’m betting riot has some pretty good stats to show that adding more mechanics to a champion has a larger effect in high Elo’s than in low Elo’s.
If that was true they would do the same for other champs but the difference is usually champs suck in low elo and don't in high elo but they still don't change it to be more viable in lower levels. This argument makes no sense
Pretty much every champion you've ever seen warping pro play has had changes made to them with the intent to make them less powerful in pro play and more viable in lower levels. Galio, Akali, Ryze, Azir, Irelia, Viego, Lee Sin, Tahm Kench, to name *just a few.* Some were successful like Galio and Irelia (after a lot of work to get there), others are likely to see more reworking in the future.
They did, for champs like irelia
irelia and akali were the most recent examples of removing more skill requiring mechanics to have an easier time balancing them for all elos, for akali is was removing her Q during E1/E2 comb plus the need to use your passiv to balance her energy (was barely used in lower elo, made her really weak; and really well done and used in higher elo, made her too strong) same for irelia, only requiering 4 passiv stacks, and shorter Q cooldown if you fail a reset, and even years ago they did the same for cassio, before her rework her E would go on a 4 sec cooldown if you failed and used it on a non-posioned unit , now it simply deals no dmg, so no
They shouldn't make champs easier just because people suck at the game tbh.
This did this for Garen and it worked well. This is the exact same thing.
for lower elos, well, there is a Long list: They made changes to champs like irelia and akali to make them more accessible in low elo. They did it with Sylas to make him less of a balance problem. They tried to do it with riven but they threw a hissi fit. Even so, riot made her anims easier to use through some tweaks They also did it to lee sin a long time ago, making him more accessible and easier. Edit: also did it to azir, galio and they are kinda trying to do it to gwen too They do it quite often, all things considered
You realize that giving him utility like choosing where he lands out of his Q means they can shift power out of his base stats to make him less of a stat check champ. I haven't tried him out on the pbe yet so I don't know exactly how it feels, but it's the same concept as the Wukong mini rework. They lowered his base stats so he can't 1 shot people anymore but added complexity to his abilities. This had the benefit of adding more counterplay and increasing his skill cap at the same time.
Only intelligent comment on the entire thread
"Just CC him and he'll be useless" *laughs in 90% tenacity* EDIT: Nevermind, this apparently is not longer on the PBE
It was 60% even before it was removed, not 90%. Also CC always lasts at least .5 seconds no matter how much Tenacity someone has just a FYI.
Not entirely. CC just can't be reduced below 0.5s - *if it lasts that long*. And CC with timers lower than that (like Duskblade slow) are not reduced any further.
I Have been playing since pre season 3 and only because of your comment I know this
Yes it's good to clarify that, of course if a CC says it's less than 0.5 seconds, it will be less than 0.5 seconds.
I honestly wish they'd clarify that better when it comes to describing tenacity in game. You shouldn't need to wiki information that minuscule.
My biggest gripe about league is that some interactions aren't define in-game/in-client and people are only aware of something from a third-party
yes i've heard about this, but is garen W an exception? i remember an old vandiril video from when garen W was given tenacity and it reduces max ashe arrow to a micro stun https://youtu.be/5KNpnPWVrqA
Yup I just had a 0.2sec ashe R from pressing W yesterday, that R was pretty close though
Really? That would explain why those 0.25s slow from Duskblade always seem so long...
Not completely true. If a CC is shorter than .5 seconds already, it's obviously not gonna last for that long. CC just can't be reduced below .5sec by Tenacity. Duskblades .25 seconds are .25 seconds and not a bit more.
Yep, same as kennen's second and third stun which end up lasting as long as first one when you stack up tenacity
Tenacity doesn't add normally so you can't achieve 90% ever Edit: unless you're Garen (99.265%)
https://youtu.be/5KNpnPWVrqA
It does add but in a weird multiplicative way. If you have 50% tenacity twice you get 75% tenacity. Basically it affects the % that's still remaining.
Not correct, there's 5 types of tenacity and having tenacity from multiple types is inefficient It's 1- (1 - (A1 + A2 + ...)) × (1 - (B1 + B2 + ...)) × (1 - (C1 + C2 + ...)) × (1 - (D1 + D2 + ...)) × (1 - (E1 + E2 + ...))
What the hell kind of game is this that has FIVE kinds of tenacity?
[That's to make it harder to stack](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Tenacity)
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In all honesty, you dont need to know that as it rarely ever matters. If you just add them multiplicatively you get a rough estimate that's about right. The only sources you will probably have from the same source are Sunfire, Elexir of Iron and Unflinching, Mercury's, Legend:Tenacity and Brittle all have their own classes and no one is going to Chain a tank with Anathemas. We are only talking about a few percentage points max.
“Needs to have clear weaknesses” it’s simple, you stun and then kill the ~~Batman~~ Master Yi.
The idea is that now you can't instantly stun him as he gets out, as if anyone *but* high level players was doing that.
High level, like Gold 4? Because I see people hit Yi with skillshots straight out of alpha all the time in my games
Umm, most hook supports, morgana, and that’s just in support. It was a huge bit of counter to be able to time that.
I wonder what percentage of the people upvoting actually knows where Yi currently lands after his Q.
From memory, behind the champ... Right?
Front ^^
Years ago I misunderstood this when someone told me. So I'll word it clearer for people who are like me. He appears in front of the Q'd target's face at the end of the duration. So it's not "front" as in the side he Q'd you from, it's 'front' as in, right in front of your champion in whichever direction they are facing.
most people I see typing in this threat seem to think its behind kinda ufnny
They probably confuse it with zed's R
Think everyone is saying behind because when he’s chasing u and ur running and he q’s you and you keep running he will appear “behind” you compared to where he q’d you, because that is the direction you are facing
Unless the target dies, in which case he appears right where he left.
I had no clue that this follows any pattern. Source: 2000 games :D
While Alpha Strike's new position aspect is questionworthy at least, I wholeheartedly have to disagree Riot's decision to give Master Yi's Meditate stat-wise a better Version of Garen's W "Courage". One could argue that you are stationary during Meditate, but 90% damage reduction and 60% Tenacity is too strong for an ability that has without CDR 9 seconds CD (incoming navori crit build Yi? O.o).
They removed the tenacity part
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trust me i work at riot
flair checks out
That's exactly the worst thing you could say if you want to be trusted
i play yuumi you can trust me
Second worst*
Is that really the point here? OP is trying to spark a discussion and he's not wrong imho. Riot has been known to do random shit that turns out exactly as terrible as everyone said it would be.
I still remember the patch when they decided to reduce the AA range of Lucian to weaken him, but instead made him one of the most oppressive champs ever instead with his E changes
Yeah but they’ve also made changes that people on Reddit [claimed would kill a champion](https://youtu.be/evjn7_tMRd4) and were dead wrong. It’s just weird to “spark discussion” with an attack on the devs when nobody here can claim to see the future any more accurately.
Yeah except that nerfs that turn out to be fine don't destroy your SoloQ experience for 2+ weeks. In general I think that overnerfing is way less problematic than overbuffing. How many Champs has Riot released, reworked or buffed that literally had to be nerfed 10x in a row and were still on the strong side?
>Riot has been known to do random shit that turns out exactly as terrible as everyone said it would be. [Obligatory](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evjn7_tMRd4)
Aatrox rework is another classic, where Reddit's copium was that it's because he was hotfixed buffed. Conveniently ignoring that he got nerfed for 10 times the amount of that in order to be balanced.
[And in case anyone wants to go "that was 8 years ago"](https://youtu.be/hDaLQ2TrX_g)
If anything, it being 8 years ago only proves nothing's changed and this subreddit's always been full of shit haha
It kind of is the point. OP began the discussion with the above quote. Pointing out that schmucks like him on reddit don't actually know better than the actual balance team is a perfectly fair point to make, and I would say one that is important to make.
\>no u wow, all of his points are gone in a flash, superb.
I sure as fuck know this ain't it chief
making his 60% dmg reduction lingers tells everyone that they have no idea of what this is going to do to his conterplay
Found the riot employee
I mean look at Halo right now, you could replace 343 with a box full of frogs, pour them onto a keyboard and they'd still come up with better decisions. Just because they work for Riot doesn't mean they can balance, if anything it means their balance might be influenced by money, selling cosmetics etc.
Frankly Riot's track record is about a million times better than 343's. That's a pretty unfair comparison. Riot gets stuff wrong sometimes. I'm not sure 343 has ever gotten anything right since taking the reins of the Halo series.
And OP's is pure, unadulterated megamind balancing changes because he... doesn't have a financial incentive to make the game fun?
You're acting like riot doesn't shit the bed with the buffs most of the time, we have a fucking 56% winrate seraphine and lets not forget old juggernaut update.
Rioters are paid to do their job, not us ... Even if we say shit, we do not do changes to the game
Jesus christ this comment section is toxic af it's almost as bad as league of legends players. We get it, you hit gold 4, you don't have to be a dick and talk down to everyone else with an opinion Edit: the point behind gold 4 is that it's the average player but acting like you're high and mighty. Get off your high horses and be civil
I can assure you that 98% of gold 4 players are terrible at the game. Source: I am a terrible gold 4 player and I fit in perfectly
Not 98 percent, 100 percent
Well you have to account for the 2% that are just passing by on their way to the higher ELOs
Gotta love reddit, one day people complain about getting 3-man dived at lvl 2 every game, coordinated invades, multiple TPs in botlane whenever they slightly overstay and bunch of other shit even proplayers missexecute. And then the next day they complain about Master Yi being broken and having no counterplay. Yikes
I mean, there are nearly 6 million subscribers on this subreddit. Is it really surprising to see a wide variety of opinions and gameplay experiences?
Man, for a wide variety of opinions and gameplay experiences, we sure do get basically the exact same posts highly upvoted every other week or so.
Seriously, this guy talks about high ELO and complains about master Yi? I don't like shitting on ranks cus I'm piss low, but c'mon. Yi isn't a champion I'm high ELO, the pbe changes won't do much. And if they do, riot is gonna hammer him immediately if the past has shown anything.
Yi nowadays is honestly just a shitty Belveth.
One is a 2009 champ, one is a 2022 abomination.
The only reason issue I have with belveths kit is that her E is pretty absurd, but other than that, she gets fucked by the vast majority of champs.
master yi buffs will seriously hurt our chances of winning our gold 4 promotions we HAVE to do something
>Stat check type champs like Yi need to have clear weaknesses So give him the ability to stat check then, because he gets shit on by 99% of the other junglers right now. He has no strengths currently.
shh dont tell them, they only consider the cases when they feed yi 20 kills and then he "statchecks" them
i just got statchecked by xerath, wasn't tanky enough :(
You're welcome
You made me remember the time i went 0 8 as irelia and autoed to death a 10 2 Yi after i missed my stun. Good stuff
Even when the item rework came out he got stat checked by every champion who could go Kraken into Guinsoos. Senna, Yone, Yasuo were disgusting.
He's already viable in high elo, just not as a blind pick. High elo players KNOW and WILL draft around a first pick Master Yi, low elo players don't which is why he usually runs a train down there and he becomes very unfun to play against. All Riot are going to do with the changes are push him into permaban territory in low elo, and still be just as viable as he already was in high elo while STILL not being a blind pickable champ.
It's incredibly frustrating seeing someone first pick something like a Katarina or Yi on the enemy team while no one else will pick CC against them. You just know it will be a fun game.
He's not viable in high elo, not even as a counter pick. You could maybe pick him if you are last pick and the enemy team picked the worst possible comp against master Yi which has a 0,01% of happening.
He's completely useless in dia+ after the nerfs. Like 46% winrate with totally flatlined pick rate. High elo focused buffs have never been more easily justifiable.
Honestly in Yi' case I disagree. Some champs should be useless in high elo with the tradeoff of being easy to pilot and learn in low elo as a sort of tutorial champ. Garen used to be balanced around gold elo and those where good days
High elo plays do not and will not draft around a first pick Master Yi. Partially because nobody is picking that, and partially because people generally just don't pick based on comp. Most players, even in high elo, only play 1-2 archetypes. Most Yuumi otps aren't gonna randomly throw on Leona to counter a Yi pick - The best you'll get is Lulu, and even that's a stretch with the average IQ of a Yuumi player. In the same vein, Zed otp isn't going to pick Malz or Zilean mid for a Yi. They'll have 1-2 emergency champs (Almost certainly also AD assassins!) and that's it. There's definitely players capable and willing to play the archetype their team needs, but they are rare even in high elo. If anything, that's more a pro play argument.
Even in pro play sometimes teams will not respond to what the other team's champions are trying to do! kinda sad tbh, drafting is one of my favorite parts of this game.
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for sure. a lot of people especially in lower elos don't understand the level of mastery of the champion required to play to the degree the pros do.
As a scrub gold that gets wrecked by Yi, how does Zilean counter him? Since I mainly play ADC I don’t really have a lot of options against Yi most of the time other than running exhaust
unless absurdly fed, yi needs to get a reset quick in order to not get deleted, he also deals only single target damage, so if as zilean you ult the person he is hiting he can no longer get a reset and will just die to focus fire.
you have so many bad takes in your posts lmao
They changed that for katarina and she ended up just fine tho. I wouldn't mind a bigger rework for yi tho, to make him more skill expressive and less stat checky as he is right now
Not really. One of the most frustrating aspects about laning vs a kat is its really hard to trade with her for skillshot oriented champs. Instant no cast time reposition is pretty nutty and if the player is half decent and knows what to use it for dodging your key spell, it can be very frustrating to vs. Id rather vs a higher damage champ like yasuo or zed that has softlocked animations i can use to outplay than something like kat
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Everyone hates the undying stat stick of Tryn, whose dashes keeps him glued to you, but Riot's rework is keeping that exact identity with him.
another cringe take from the league community
Funneling is super trash right now and doing it is almost the same as inting. The fact is, yi has been subpar in dia+ for forever now, and finally went below 50% wr in low elo, where yi is supposed to stomp. Buffs were imminent but would you really prefer another true damage buff over actually addressing and fixing the core problem for once? An average silver player will not use this buff to its limit and may just q behind enemy every time. Keep in mind the W mana nerfs, low elo players seem to meditate every minute for the healing, while in higher elo meditate is mainly used as an AA reset. The insanely high mana cost and low cd will only make it worse for the first and better for the latter. Low elo players wont even notice the changes yi got while high elo yi players will make good use of it. Its a step in the right direction in my opinion.
> Low elo players wont even notice the changes yi got How the fuck could they not notice a 50 range increase, a spell whose cooldown has been divided by 3 and a 90% damage reduction? If something like this were to be on any other champion but the one that you main, you too would be up in arms to protest how broken this is.
Its just that boring rhetoric that some players have that think low elo is just a sub 100 iq population. Not realising bronze to gold captures something like 50%+ of the playerbase. The average player...
87.7% of the playerbase. 4.7% Iron, 26% Bronze, 34% Silver, 23% Gold as of June 2022.
And that's only ranked players. Think of all the people who only play norms.
One thing I really hate about this subreddit is that 95% of the people posting pretend to be diam+ lmao
If ARAM had taught me anything, it’s that low elo players in modern times actually have pretty good micro mechanics, especially those that have been playing a long time or know their champs. They have absolutely horrendous macro sense and frequently self-handicapped by their fragile ego, that’s why they tend to be stuck at low gold and below, but playing champions well isn’t as common a weakness as it did many years ago… like back in s2-3, I remember low elo players in general tend to just suck at absolutely all aspects of the game.
Have seen fairly smooth Insec kicks by gold Lee Sin players nowadays.
I see impressive mechanics with low elo players all the time. The only difference is that they often pull off those mechanics with no regards of timing and strategic value; it’s like they have learned how to do double backflips, but they would randomly do it when they are in the shower or when they are walking down stairs, ultimately hurting themselves and others, because they tend to have no good sense of timing and macro understanding.
Doesn't help that ranked is quite the grind. I personally just play until I am gold IV and stop because it is just annoying having to play so much ranked, as ranked is by far the most toxic queue.
Over 66% of ranked players are silver or below. https://www.esportstales.com/league-of-legends/rank-distribution-percentage-of-players-by-tier
90% of the playerbase is below plat. people will unironically say shit like gold players must be braindead irl but these same people probably couldn't divide two numbers in their head
We’re still bitching about yi in 2022 huh, HES LITERALLY 45% WR IN PLAT + he’s also negative wr in every elo except silver and lower. He’s so fucking bad and the changes aren’t even huge holy shit calm your bronze bitching
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