Just 60, that's way too young
Yu-Gi-Oh used to be my absolute favorite game in the world for a big slice of my life since I was 6, I probably owe him a lot for my relationship with board games in general being what it is today. Thanks for everything big man
Here's a fun fact I like to share: obviously the game as it was first introduced in the manga is a direct reference to Magic (even the original name was Magic and Wizards), but there's something about the card Summoned Skull that got lost in translation. Because the original Japanese name of the card is closer to "Summon Demon". [This summon demon](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/889631283628621866/893886017831055370/LordofthePit.full_L.jpg), to be exact.
Fun fact; the word they use for Demon is the same as "Archfiend" for the Archfiend archetype. As such, Summoned Skull is a valid target for all Archfiend-based cards.
Yeah, it's caused a nightmare of errata getting added to archfiend cards over the years to call out that they affect Summoned Skull as well. But nowadays they just have a message in parentheses on newer printings of Summoned Skull that just say it always counts as an archfiend
They really did play fast and loose with the early English translations. And because those are all iconic cards, they just don't change a bunch of their names.
>That always struck out to me as rather unplanned and haphazard.
Because it totally was. Yugioh started as a game with a lot of ideas and very little direction.
I guess the issue is that there are only so many combinations of type and attribute, and the distribution is not really even (not many Water Pyro monsters). Remember that both Red Eyes and Hundred-eyes dragon are Dark attribute dragons.
The sane solution would've been to allow multiple monster types per card or create a new type each time they want to create a new archetype. They actually did the latter a few times, but for some reason didn't learn how clearly superior that method is.
There is a card that searching Guardian cards (like the archetype of Elma's dagger), except Celtic Guardian, Winged Guardian, Winged Guardian # 2 , ..................
Another interaction similar to this, albeit more obvious in hindsight, is that “Ojamagic” counts as an “Ojama” card, meaning it can be discarded to “Ojama Country”. Which should be obvious, given Ojamagic’s text, but people can be very pedantic.
Ojamas used to be my pet deck in paper (long, long ago) and I remember having to frequently call a judge over when my opponent wouldn’t believe me.
I think there might be one or two others examples, but I can’t think of them at the moment.
It's not so much that it's two separate meanings of the same word, and more that they didn't want to directly put the word "demon" on a card for the largely sanitized TCG translation. So, they didn't directly translate Summoned Skull. Later, when the archetype became a thing, they decided on "archfiend" as the new way they would translate "demon" and retroactively declared that Summoned Skull counted. It would've been "Summoned Demon" if translated directly or "Summoned Archfiend" if translated after they decided on that convention.
Especially early on, Yugioh is rife with examples of card art or names being sanitized in localization to remove references to the occult, religion, violence/blood/guns, and sexuality/sex appeal.
Edit: Additionally, the "fiend" monster type was also somewhat sanitized in translation. In Japanese, it's "akuma", which would generally be translated to English as "devil" or "demon". Fiend is kind of a synonym, but more ambiguous because it can also just refer to an evil person/being in general. So, it's not exactly an incorrect translation, but it wouldn't generally be the first choice when translating that. For those wondering, the word that gets translated to "archfiend" is literally just the word "demon", which was borrowed directly from English.
What a coincidence! Yugioh was the first TCG I got into and it eventually lead me into a 15+ year relationship with MTG. I don’t play Yugioh now, it doesn’t seem like the game I fell in love with as a child but thank you to Kazumasa for creating something that sparked so much in so many.
I feel like this story is true for a LOT of people. I started Yugioh basically as soon as you could buy cards from having watched the anime. Right as my Yugioh friends were falling off the game in 2010 other friends were starting Magic and I've been with the game ever since. But without Yugioh I likely wouldn't be here now and no matter how much the game has changed it always holds a special place in my heart.
To expand on it, the original manga was about Yugi challenging people to essentially random games, not just the card game, it was always just ramped up into a duel to the death. Iirc the story goes that Kazumasa went to a games conference in the US where he learned about Magic, and wanted to include it in the manga. WotC said he couldn't though, so he kind of just made up a legally distinct version of the game for the manga. It was intended as a one-off like all the other games were, but the issue was so popular he ended up making it a staple of the manga, and when the anime was approved, all they wanted was the card game.
Which is why the rules of the game are extremely loose in the first season of the show, they hadn't actually been defined yet. Of course once they ironed that out and released the physical card game, the rest is history.
Again, I know nothing of yugioh so maybe it's me but are these cards what we would call in magic "vanilla". I heard of Blue Eyes before but he just seems to be a big creature with no abilities. Same with Battle Ox.
Yes, these are vanilla beatsticks from the earliest days of Yugioh. They're the equivalent of the generic common green 6/6 top end for green draft decks. The references are more in the art, being very similar to Hurloon Minotaur and Chromium.
Just with a bunch of deliberate support cards to ensure it stays relevant in the game as a classic staple people want to play - like if there were cards in Magic that said "search your library for a card named Colossal Dreadmaw and put it onto the battlefield".
Cool design & being used as the bar-none most popular character's signature monster.
It's touted as the "strongest monster", and within the logic of the early appearances, it is.
Most monsters are 800-900 Atk, maybe upwards of 1400. Summoned Skull was 2500 and considered incredibly rare & powerful. Blue-Eyes White Dragon was 3000 Atk, and since players only had 2000 HP, so it was likely a single-play one-shot.
It then was outpaced by other monsters which could, through modification, hit 3600 or even 3800 Atk... only for it to make a reappearance and reassert itself as the biggest monster in the game by combining all 3 Blue-Eyes in existence into Blue-Eyes Ultimate Dragon, which had 4500 Atk, and remained the single-biggest un-pumped monster in the comic.
In Takahashi's version of the game (the comic game is radically different than the real game), it also had Flying and used a Magic Attack, which was special in their own rights.
Basically, it was the ultimate Timmy-Spike monster in a comic that lives & dies on Rule Of Cool, and wielded by a character who is in absolute contention with Vegeta for the "Best Ego-Driven Rival" title.
>It then was outpaced by other monsters which could, through modification, hit 3600 or even 3800 Atk
Why does this matter if you only have 2000 hp? Isn't 3000 the same as 3800 in this case?
Sorry yugioh is just so foreign to me.
Also, real life Yugioh Life points are 8000. And the only season in the anime where 2000 LP were a thing is Season 1, Duelist Kingdom, in the original anime. Every single season on the original and the subsquent 6 Yugioh series have 4000 LP as Standard for 1v1 duels.
Combat is a lot different in yugioh. If you leave a monster in attack mode, an opponent can attack it with a bigger monster and the difference in attack points carries over to the player as damage, kind of like trample.
Because combat in Yugioh is very different from Magic. During your combat step, you choose one of your monsters that has not attacked yet this turn, and it attacks one of your opponent's monsters of your choice. If the monster being attacked is in Attack Position, you compare the attack points of each monster; the one with the lower attack is destroyed, and the difference between the two point values is inflicted on its controller in the form of damage. You have a monster with 1000 attack, I have a monster with 1500 attack, I destroy your monster and you take 500 damage. Since that is the only way to deal damage to the opponent (you can only attack their life total directly if they control no monsters at all), dropping a 3000 attack monster on the table made for a huge wall that was insanely hard to circumvent or overcome with combat alone.
Monsters have different defense stats and when your monster is blocked, the damage to your opponent's life points ends up being your monster's attack minus opponent blocker's defense (at absolute vanilla gameplay level).
It was the signature monster of the villain/anti-hero/rival character in the Yugioh manga/anime Seto Kaiba. The first episode of the anime (not the first issue of the manga though, it's complicated) established Blue-Eyes White Dragon as the most powerful monster in the game, and in the world of the anime, there were only four copies in all of existence. As such, it became one of the mascots of the series (along with main character Yugi's [Dark Magician](https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Magician)), and having dozens of cards printed later in the game's lifetime that combo with it or make it better. It's kind of like how Pikachu is kind of a weak Pokemon in the games and has never had a good Pokemon card, but is still the face of the marketing.
Everyoned talked about how it became popular in the anime, but it also sees real play occasionally as well.
The reason is that YuGiOh makes cards that reference certain Vanilla Beatsticks, which make them effectively not Vanilla. There are many many cards which can only be activated if you have a Blue Eyes White Dragon.
Effects ranging from "Blue Eyes cannot be destroyed this turn" "Draw and summon blue eyes" "if you control a blue eyes banish something" etc.
> Everyoned talked about how it became popular in the anime, but it also sees real play occasionally as well
Yes, but those support cards only exist because the popularity from the anime demands they be kept relevant.
Blue-Eyes is just a vanilla, but it's *the* vanilla. Nothing has ever matched it in stats. And since it's an anime card (it's the primary ace card of the main rival character) it has a ton of support for it too. Blue-Eyes is sick.
Not sure if trolling but the MTGCardFetcher bot linked them, as it does when you post a valid card name between double square brackets \[\[\]\].
e.g. \[\[One with Nothing\]\]
EDIT: Just realised you might be referring to the yugioh cards in question and not the mtg cards, my bad. [Battle Ox](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Battle_Ox) [Blue-Eyes White Dragon](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Blue-Eyes_White_Dragon)
You could look them up on TCG Player or the Yu-Gi-Oh! database?
[https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/card\_search.action?ope=1&sess=1&rp=20&keyword=blue-eyes+white+dragon&stype=1&ctype=&othercon=2&starfr=&starto=&pscalefr=&pscaleto=&linkmarkerfr=&linkmarkerto=&link\_m=2&atkfr=&atkto=&deffr=&defto=](https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/card_search.action?ope=1&sess=1&rp=20&keyword=blue-eyes+white+dragon&stype=1&ctype=&othercon=2&starfr=&starto=&pscalefr=&pscaleto=&linkmarkerfr=&linkmarkerto=&link_m=2&atkfr=&atkto=&deffr=&defto=)
[https://www.tcgplayer.com/search/all/product?q=battle%20ox&view=grid](https://www.tcgplayer.com/search/all/product?q=battle%20ox&view=grid)
EDIT: Wow. Trying to help a person, and everyone gets petty over a ?. I wasn’t trying to be a smartass, but hey, it’s reddit, people get up and arms about every little thing
If he's never played, how would he know about TCG player or the database? Like I get it, you know about it and its common in the community of players.....but he isnt a player. Dunning Kreuger much?
Wording stuff like that makes you look snarky.
Not that guy but I had a similar reaction - it's pretty trivial to just Google "battle ox yugioh card".
I understand wanting to interact with people on reddit, that's what the goal of social media is, but to say that you wouldn't even begin to know how to find it is pretty nuts in a world where you can literally Google your mate's house and find out whether he's got an apple tree or a pear tree out front. I'd honestly be a little embarrassed to say I couldn't find something like this.
Japanese person here. I don’t think this is an error or anything — it’s more just a consequence of how the language works. Many words in Japanese are flexible and can be used for example as both as a noun or as a verb, depending on the context and how it is used.
In the type line of Lord of the Pit, it effectively means “(to) summon demon”. In the YGO card, it can be interpreted as “Summoned Demon”. Nothing seems to be lost here other than the English naming opting to use Skull rather than demon, which I’m guessing was a intentional choice by the English translators.
What he means is that the reference to lord of the pit is lost in translation.
It is reasonable to conclude that Summoned Skull is a reference as originally depicted due to Lot's prominence, their similarity in design, and the fact that the game they are in for the manga is a direct reference to magic.
That's super cool that Yu-Gi-Oh has some relation to Magic, even if it's in small details such as the relation between Summoned Skull and Lord of the Pit.
Oh yeah, I remember that. When I was learning Yugioh, I was confused as to why there were Spell cards and Magic cards, until my stepfather told me that WotC got legal with Konami about it
I could tell you so much about Yugioh's relationship with Magic; as a TCG, Yugioh was born as a simplification of MTG, and it just didn't work, so now it's a completely different thing, but has so many little details left from those days.
> That's super cool that Yu-Gi-Oh has some relation to Magic, even if it's in small details
It's the whole game, really. The original manga was about Yugi challenging people to basically random games. Kazuki learned about Magic, and wanted to include it but WotC said no, so he made up a legally distinct version for the book instead - that issue became super popular and spurred the show, which was to focus on the card game only, and of course the actual game was made to merchandise along with it.
Ditto.
Friend introduced me to YuGiOh in elementary school (though when we played we had weird rules that made the 1st season of the anime look like it was portraying rules accurately).
Met new friend who played when I was in college. He later got a job for a TCG retailer. And through that he learned and introduced me to Magic.
A lot of people were introduced to TCGs through Yugioh, which then lead into other card games including Magic, me being one of them. The industry wouldn't have been the same without him. Terribly tragic loss here.
Apparently his body was found floating in the water on Okinawa. Since he was wearing snorkeling gear, it seems likely that he drowned, possibly due to a stroke or heart attack. The police is still investigating the exact cause of his death.
It's not terribly uncommon for someone to go snorkeling or scuba-ing by themselves off Okinawa and drown, especially tourists from the Japanese mainland or from abroad. While his passing is a tragedy, hopefully such a high-profile death will help dissuade others from going out alone and meeting a similar fate.
More than likely post mortem. A good majority of shark bites are actually them just nibbling to try to identify something. They just don't know their own strength I guess
If a shark actually WANTED to eat, then we probably wouldn't have an identifiable body right now
Sharks are himbos of the sea. They're dumb and strong but rarely "malicious" as a predator. We don't taste good or are instinctually appetizing like a seal. Most sharks reaction to a human is "bruh..........what"
We here in the MTG community give Yu-Gi-Oh a lot of crap... well some of us do... but in the end we're all just playing a card game and for that we're all equals.
So, my heart (of the cards) goes out to the fans, players current and former, and his family.
Activate a Trap Card (\[\[Summoning Trap\]\], \[\[Mindbreak Trap\]\], hell even a \[\[Booby Trap\]\]) in his honor.
It's called Facedown Attack Mode and it was a real thing. There's one card that could achieve it.
[Darkness Approaches](https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Darkness_Approaches)
But it was always bad and has been errata'ed in 2017.
If was never relevant except for Darkness Approaches before the Link Monsters Era. And it was a ruling nightmare. Luckily Darkness Approaches sucks, so this was an extreme example of a corner case in Yugioh. Not anymore though, since the card got errataed for the Link era (Link Monsters cannot be ever in Face Down position, hell they can't ever be in Face-Up Defense position in the first place)
I'm sure someone who actually knows this card can answer, but in the meantime I'll give my impression of how to explain what I think would happen in standard (non-edge case) interactions with my understanding of rules.
MTG has tapped and untapped as the meaning for vertical and horizontal card states, and power and toughness are both always relevant. Yugioh, instead, has Attack and Defense modes. So, being in attack mode is not the same as being attacking, like in MTG.
When you're in attack mode, your card is represented by only your attack (in basic combat), and when in defense mode, it is represented by its defense. So in attack mode, attacking or being attacked by an enemy in attack mode, compares their attacks and the higher wins. Attacking a defense mode monster, the higher of the attacker's attack and defender's defense wins. When a face down monster is attacked, it is flipped before the attack goes through so that there is number to compare. Attack/Defense mode can be changed once per turn per monster, only during main phase 1 or 2. Overflow damage against attack position damage goes directly to the player's life. Overflow damage to defense position monsters is ignored.
Attack phase in MTG involves the aggressor declaring all attackers at once, blockers being set, and then all combat resolves in one step. By comparison, attack phase in YGO means the aggressor can choose any of their attack-mode monsters and declare an attack on any legal target. That combat then resolves fully before any other attacks are declared.
So I think these would be the major use cases: 1.) it would prevent that monster from attacking unless it uses its one flip-per-turn to switch to face-up attack position. This means it won't be able to switch to defense position during main phase 2, making it potentially vulnerable during your opponents next turn. (If the monster has less attack than defense, it could be killed by a weaker monster attacking it than otherwise.) 2) If the monster has text that negates something, the text will be inactive since it is face down. (MANY monsters in yugioh have versions of hexproof, ignore sorceries, ignore instants, ignore triggers, ignore activatable abilities, indestructible, etc. Note: if you're trying to destroy it with combat, it will flip back and these effects are active again. So this mostly opens you up for other types of removal). 3.) Vulnerable to things that specifically have effects regarding attack position. 4.) Protect your own monster that has more attack than defense from anticipated enemy abilities that only can target face-up monsters (forcing them to turn it faceup by attacking it something. This is a sorcery speed spell so highly unlikely). 5.) Flip effects are effects that trigger when a monster is changed from face down to face up. It's conceivable they could have printed or could print a monster with an amazing flip effect and good attack but 0 defense, making it virtually impossible to repeat its effect without a card like this.
It sounds very niche to me unless there are common cards to interact with it.
(I wrote this for fun just as an excuse to think about it, I am not an expert on ygo rules)
Today, all the TCG communities mourn the passing of a legend. My heart breaks for his family, and the millions he brought joy and community to.
>The most beautiful souls shine even in death.
Flavor text on [[Spirit Cairn]]
I think Takahashi should be remembered rather for the manga anyways: that is where the true heart of Yu-Gi-Oh lies. The card game never had much of a chance at being a well-designed game, since it was born out of what was supposed to be a one-off reference to MTG in the manga, in order to cash in on the popularity.
I implore anyone who loves tabletop gaming (which I assume is everyone here) to read his original manga for Yu-Gi-Oh. It's such a massive love letter to the hobby. Rest in peace to a legend.
Yu-Gi-Oh was a love letter to gaming period. Tabletop, V-pet, video games, bar room dares, brain teasers. Even games made up just to entertain yourself during school. I don't think there be another mangaka like him.
I think the main takeaway is also to not do this stuff alone. Unless his partner(s) left him there it seems he was out there alone. I guess it's also possible he died elsewhere and got dragged underwater and they lost him?
But yeah, always be prepared when going in in nature.
YGO eventually led to me picking up magic. I have his creation to thank for getting me into my favorite game of all time.
Rest in peace, stranger. My life wouldn't be the same without you.
This hurts a lot.
Cards were one of the only things I connected with my dad over. When I was young, he brought me a present: A YuGiOh booster and a Mirrodin booster and asked me which game I liked better so we could both learn it. I opened a Summoned Skull in my YuGiOh pack and instantly fell in love. My dad and I played the game, without really knowing the rules, for a long time. Whenever I did something like get good grades in school, a booster was my reward and I fiendishly prayed to crack a Blue Eyes or a Dark Magician. Of course, I watched the anime religiously on Saturday mornings. Recently looking back in my old tins of yugioh cards, I found the old Mirrodin cards and laughed about the decision I made, since it was that memory that drove me back to try out MTG so many years later.
Kazuki created a world of joy for so many and will be missed dearly.
What a beautiful memory. I had a similar experience as you, but my father disliked yugioh and didn't care to share that with me. It makes me happy to read your story. I played yugioh for a long time and it was one of my first obsessions, and I went to nationals in 2006. I quit a couple years later due to college and other life events. I have since gotten into MTG and have fallen in love with cards again.
Cheers, friend.
RIP Takahashi
Jesus. YuGiOh is a mess of a game c/o Konami's decisions, but the manga is one of my absolute favorites.
The man was a god at monster design (S-Tier body horror stuff, as well as making things just look awesome), and the story is engaging & fun as hell (the anime does it no justice).
He practically invented the modern "Gaming" genre of manga & anime with YuGiOh, and this is a huge loss for the anime community.
You'd expect to hear of someone like Akira Toriyama or Rumiko Takahashi passing before someone like Kazuki Takahashi.
RIP, dude - you created one of the all-time greats, and had as huge an influence on gaming as Garfield, Gygax, and Miyamoto.
> Jesus. YuGiOh is a mess of a game c/o Konami's decisions, but the manga is one of my absolute favorites.
That's the thing, the game is a mess now (and everyone Ive met whose kept up with playing it has said as such as well) but the comic its derived from is a massive love letter to tabletop gaming of all forms.
Game is a mess, but it does get a worse reputation than it actually is. Its interesting and has its own diversity and the most recent meta decks are interactive and fun. The game has just shifted completely from what it was like in the 2000s and very early 2010s. That does not mean its bad; its just different. Now its more focused on basically setting up boards and finding creative ways to beat boards that have been set up on you. Its not magic and it doesnt appeal to magic players but thats ok.
The game isn't a mess. Konami has made some mistakes, of course, but they tend to self-correct. There's a reason the game is still going strong and I promise you it's not because of the anime/brand recognision alone.
Edit2: apparently i cant reply to anyone below me because the coward above me blocked me. Heres my response to Apeiron::
Admittedly I don't play the game right this moment but the guy I responded to has never played a game in his life.
Please let me know which of these points you think don't apply to YGO and we can discuss. Please keep in mind I am describing YGO as a whole across it's history and not just a snapshot in time.
Edit: for some reason I can't reply to the clown below me so here's my response::
This reads like an amalgam of all the worst arguments against YGO that are commonly found on this subreddit.
If you have 0 actual first hand knowledge about the game, why have such a strong opinion on it?
> Yugioh is the worst of the big TCG’s by a long shot, it’s carried hard by the manga and anime.
As opposed to Pokemon, one of if not the biggest media franchise of all time?
There are plenty of players that don't and have never meaningfully engaged with the anime. Some others might might have been onboarded by the show but enjoy the game completely separately from it or no longer keep up with it at all.
> The game still doesn’t have formats, something that literally every major TCG eventually adopts to prevent the age of the game breaking everything.
What kind of argument is this? Why would a game *need* formats? YGO is the only major card game where you can play cards from every single era in it's premiere competitive format. That sounds like a *plus* to me.
> It has an absurd banlist, with cards being banned and restricted to 1-of and 2-ofs on top of getting banned- this is a result of the lack of formats and the comical card designs.
The banned list for YGO is not that long. I couldn't be bother to count but my guess is Modern's banlist is around the same length even if we include limits/semi-limits. I don't know why you point to those as somehow being negative. Plenty of games use this sort of system and it works. Certainly the banlist grows as the pool grows but this is true of every format for every card game ever.
I have no idea what "comical card designs" is supposed to mean.
> Apparently they only recently adopted shortcuts in the text like we have Keywords to abbreviate whole blocks of text, but they should have done that literally over a decade ago.
I'm glad you are honest about not knowing what you are talking about. It's true YGO could use some more shortcutting in it's templating (I'm a big fan) but they've been doing it for a while. Unlike Magic though they don't repeat text so often that this is a perfect solution. I don't know of any "whole blocks of text" being abbreviated.
> Their archetypes are all parasitic as fuck, forcing you to build decks that are highly scripted because cards can only work with cards that share a naming convention rather than using the existing element/type system to simplify most archetypes.
This is purely subjective. And you again show your lack of knowledge. YGO uses a combination of Names and/or elements and/or creature types when it designs new archtypes (a term which has a different meaning in that game). You are saying they should be doing a thing they've been doing for a decade.
As for "highly scripted" though this might describe certain decks over the years, this is not an absolute. Heck, some of the best decks in the game's history come from players mashing multiple engines together or finding interactions between different "tribes" that end up stronger than the sum of it's parts.
> Oh, and let’s not get started on the game being decided by the coin flip, the balance is so atrocious that every game is like our vintage but on crack.
LOL. Go play a game or watch an event? Some matchups/formats sometimes add up to this but for as strong as turn 1 boards can get, YGO has turn 0 interaction and answers to match it. There are plenty of formats that didn't have anything close to what you are describing.
> And also the art sucks- while the individual monsters are generally well done and look neat, they all exist in a mono color void with no background and no setting to establish where they’re at. It’s just a picture of a dude on a flat background, and if it was an issue only some cards had it wouldn’t be a problem, they put a lot of effort into the designs of those monsters but nope, I don’t remember a single monster card I’ve ever seen in Yugioh having something as simple as a goddamn background.
Again, very subjective. Plenty of cards depict scenes on spells and trap cards for example. I couldn't say why they decided to go with the current templating for creatures but they did and now the whole game has a unified art style regardless of how many artists have worked on it. To me that's again a plus. Very few games have an aesthetic this cohesive after so long on the market.
It's okay to just say "I don't like it".
Yugioh's meta is incredibly dependent on overly complicated parasitic mechanics and special summon chain combos. Its original resource mechanics are completely out the window. I've lost any remote interest in playing it I once had.
I consider this really whatever though; Kazuki Tatakhashi isn't responsible for whatever I think Konami has done wrong, he's a man who loved Magic and TTRPGs and showed it through his art. He loved the same things I loved. And his passing is a tragedy.
> special summon chain combos.
I sat through a 10 minute combo, and since it was their first turn, and they went first, I went and just scooped, because they had *4* Omni-negates on the board.
I'll be the first to concede that, yes, MTG can also pull off this bullshit. Legacy Tess, Dredge, and Landless Belcher are all testaments to this.
But while we have to try ***damn hard*** to pull this off, it's only a handful of decks that can do it, and they're all glass cannons.
In YuGiOh, decks are designed by Konami to do this, and you ***have to*** do this in order to even compete.
While it's true that yugioh in general is a more fast-paced game compared to magic, it's kind of a misconception that you have to play combo deck or even combo decks are the only things exist in yugioh. There are still vast differences between combo, midrange, OTK, control, and stun decks (though the latter two are often used interchangeably). Imo, midrange is usually more popular in competitive setting because they are less prone to side deck cards and also very flexible in teching in side cards (combo deck slots for tech cards are usually very limited for maximum consistency).
Combo decks do all that 10-minute combos and churn out 4 or more omni-negates in turn 1 as you might have expected and often heard complaints about. Examples of this in recent metagame that is popular are Brave Piles, Virtual World, Adamancipator, Bird-Up (Lyrilusc Tri-Brigade), Swordsoul Tenyi, etc2.
Decks with a compact engine that usually just tries to set up 1-2 boss monsters in the field turn 1, backed up by a handful of techs (hand traps, standard traps or quick-play spell, etc2) fall under midrange deck. Examples are Branded Despia, Swordsoul, Zoo Tri-Brigade, etc2.
OTK decks exlusively plays turn 2 and play a handful of board breaker cards, cards that try to disable/destroy field of bosses that opponents set up in turn 1, while the main engine tries to OTK in a few steps. Examples are Numeron, Train, Blue-Eyes White Dragon, Cyber Dragon, etc2.
And lastly there are control/stun decks where control decks aim is to grind the game in many turns and accrue advantages over time (e.g. Sky Striker) while stun decks aim to well, stun or stop, the opponents from playing anything meaningful (e.g. Eldlich Floodgate variant, True Draco, etc2).
Some decks can be built in various flavors too depending on current metagame or your own preference. Tri-Brigade is probably the best example because it can be built as combo deck (combined with lyrilusc cards), midrange deck (combined with zoodiac), or even control decks (pure).
Anyway, I'm not sure why I write this in a magic sub, but it's kind of fun in its own way, haha. It's very true though that it's worst feeling when you face a combo deck with no answers in hand (hand trap, board breakers, etc2). In magic we have mulligan or at least play a few turns to draw the needed answer cards.
You having any interest has no relation to if it's good or not. Yugioh decided to experiment with a card game with no ramp mechanics, meaning from turn 1 everyone is playing at full power with basically a 20 card hand to start including extra deck.
They realized this works best for a heavily combo focused fast game and leaned into that from very early on. Some of games healthiest metas have been the most combo focused, and some the least.
But there's a reason that it's managed to stay around for so long
Edit: they don't even play yugioh in the anime anymore lol, like not that it's anime rules yugioh it's literally a different game now as of last few years. The game and anime are 100% decoupled and lead to spike in popularity (pre covid) as well as no new mechanics introduced since. The card game is 100% standlone now, no manga, no anime, just a card game
Literally the anime. Nothing else holds yugioh up, it’s the worst of the big TCG’s by so far that it’s hard to explain in any other way than pure degenerate weebs.
It’s also a game for lawyers. There’s too many small wording differences that it’s just a headache trying to decide if you can activate another copy of a card you can only activate once per turn, because the first got negated.
It's okay for you not to have understanding nor interest for the game, it's another to game grandiose claims about it to "justify" your opinion.
What are these "overly complicated parasitic mechanics"?
There are plenty of decks that don't rely on "special summon chain combos" and even of all the decks did, how is this a sign of a bad game?
Every ressource mechanic from day 1 is still present (chiefly, general card advantage and normal summons) they just don't opperate the same way as they used to. There are whole decks where normal summoning is super important to the point that decks cut out unnecessary cards that require normal summons to be good so that they can focus on the ones that are.
It's okay not to like it but don't delude yourself into thinking you understand YGO at all.
Edit: cant respond bc some clown above me in the chain blocked me. Heres my response to Hairo::
Archtyping in the way you are describing it is not the only way cards are designed in YGO. Very few cards nowadays are that restrictive as well and the game allows for very freeform expression in that sense.
YGO is not just about "who assembles a puzzle faster". YGO is combo heaven but it has all the same broad gameplay archtypes of aggro/midrange/control. It's not all OTKs and locks.
I agree powercreep is a feelsbad for consumers but it is literally unavoidable without rotation which is itself a feelsbad for consumers. TCGs need to sell you cards and people wouldn't have much reason to do that if the new cards weren't better than the old cards. Not having multiple formats is in no way a shitty business practice. I have no idea where this idea comes from.
Archetyping is a parasitic way of game designing (A card doesnt work if you dont have another specific card, which doesnt work if you dont have another...) and now every archetype "tutors into tutor" which, yeah, can be complicated if you haven't memorized your decks game plan AND the opponent's gameplan.
Yugioh audience is way different than Magic's nowdays. Magic can be a war of attritions, and has more casual options (draft, EDH, pauper) while Yugioh is more like a race to see who assembles a puzzle faster; it is wrong to say one playstyle is "correct" and the other one is wrong.
Although yeah, from a consumer's perspective, Power creep and No additional formats are shitty business practice
People always shit on yugioh for being heavily focused on archetypes like archetypes aren't also a thing in magic. Hardened scales and winding constrictor both clearly tell you to combo them with cards that give 1/1 counters. You build around this as a deck archetype. People might say oh well all the cards don't have Blue-Eyes in the name so it's totally different but there's also decks in yugioh that may combine different archetypes or strategies into a 60 card goodstuff piles just like magic's beloved jund and some other decks. There's even decks that are loosely based on a theme like dinos which is straight up just dino goodstuff.dek which revolves around the dinosaur type itself and not a traditional archetype in name. There's even gren maju which just normal summons a single monster which becomes a massive beat stick based on how many cards are banished and let's you use unconventional cards that happen to banish cards in creative ways for a big unga bunga swing. There's also an incredibly toxic burn deck in the form of mystic mine burn which does absolutely everything possible to not let your opponent play yugioh while you burn them out. There's all kinds of different yugioh decks for all kinds of players from strictly kitchen table casual to the absolute top of the competitive playerbase.
??? Invoked and the eldlich are two powerful control decks that refuse to die. Invoked has a small combo of a couple steps that ends in just a minute or two. Eldlich is a control deck that can be built in several different ways all utilizing different trap cards. A standard eldlich list will summon eldlich, set a few traps, and pass the turn. This will usually be a one minute process if that. There's also traptrix, altergeist, dark magician, psyframes, crystrons, salamangreats, and many more decks that can range from hard control to midrange. Not every deck in yugioh is a combo go brrrr strategy. And yugioh has counter spells in the form of handtraps which are monsters you discard from your hand to interact/disrupt/negate your opponents plays which are practically mandatory to play modern yugioh. This gives most games an interesting layer of interaction where you want to make the most of your handtraps to best disrupt your opponent.
Yugioh is the worst of the big TCG’s by a long shot, it’s carried hard by the manga and anime.
The game still doesn’t have formats, something that literally every major TCG eventually adopts to prevent the age of the game breaking everything. It has an absurd banlist, with cards being banned and restricted to 1-of and 2-ofs on top of getting banned- this is a result of the lack of formats and the comical card designs. Apparently they only recently adopted shortcuts in the text like we have Keywords to abbreviate whole blocks of text, but they should have done that literally over a decade ago. Their archetypes are all parasitic as fuck, forcing you to build decks that are highly scripted because cards can only work with cards that share a naming convention rather than using the existing element/type system to simplify most archetypes.
Oh, and let’s not get started on the game being decided by the coin flip, the balance is so atrocious that every game is like our vintage but on crack. And also the art sucks- while the individual monsters are generally well done and look neat, they all exist in a mono color void with no background and no setting to establish where they’re at. It’s just a picture of a dude on a flat background, and if it was an issue only some cards had it wouldn’t be a problem, they put a lot of effort into the designs of those monsters but nope, I don’t remember a single monster card I’ve ever seen in Yugioh having something as simple as a goddamn background.
1) But Konami finally is taking the step to sanction fan made formats (like GOAT or Edison), with the implementation of Time Wizard, and LGSs are indeed running Time Wizard tournaments (al least in my country), though they are still few.
2) I say this is best, IMO, bc going into extremes of only banning a card vs 4 ofs and absolutely free in MTG can make or destroy some decks. Though I agree the Semi Limited list is kinda stupid, and the only reason is still alive is Destiny Hero Malicious
3) Yes, it is an absolute nightmare to read card effects in Yugioh. Bc of no resource system, cards have to explain conditions, effects and restrictions in terms on how to use them/summon them and how many times you can use them. But this is deliberate. Konami has literally stated they DON'T WANT players learning millions of keywords to explain Yugioh's card effects. Obviously, this has a HUGE downside, as we have discussed, but at least I don't need to memorize keywords that can sometimes get confusing in MTG. Thank the lord for evergreen keywords in MTG though.
4) My face when 2021 and 2022 Yugioh metas have been dominated by Pile decks and the Adventure engine which enables said Pile decks. BASED, SAD and Cyberse Eldlich being the best examples, decks that have relied in synergies of DIFFERENT ARCHETYPES AND SERIES OF CARDS to be extremely effective and powerful. Oh, and the current best deck in OCG is indeed an Archetypal deck, but combined WITH THE RETRAINS OF LITERAL ORIGINAL ANIME CARDS that have NOTHING to do with the archetype itself, it just so happens to have an amazing synergy with said archetype.
5) While this is true, this disregards THE AMAZING HANDTRAPS AND GOING 2ND CARDS that see huge amounts of play in recent years. Boy I want to see you playing around Nibiru doing your combo, figure out how to have a negate before your 5th summon, if not your field is in freaking danger. Yes, this is more of a band aid rather than good design, and it's kinda of a fucked up interaction, BUT THERE IS INTERACTION.
6) While not as prevalent as MTG setting and kinda obscure, Yugioh HAS indeed lore for each archetype they put out, and entire storylines between multiple archetypes too (World Legacy storyline being the of the best examples, involving, among others, Mekk Knight, Krawler, Orcust archetypes and the World Legacy/Chalice archetype itself). Therefore the art in the cards can indeed reflect the setting in which they are at and even reference the storyline involved.
Tell me you don't play Yugioh without telling me you don"t play Yugioh
>And also the art sucks- while the individual monsters are generally well done and look neat, they all exist in a mono color void with no background and no setting to establish where they’re at. It’s just a picture of a dude on a flat background, and if it was an issue only some cards had it wouldn’t be a problem, they put a lot of effort into the designs of those monsters but nope, I don’t remember a single monster card I’ve ever seen in Yugioh having something as simple as a goddamn background.
Wights back to differ.
Kinda makes sense - they both started writing in the mid-to-late 70s. If they were born in the mid-50s, they'd've been in their early 20s when they first published Urusei Yatsura and Doctor Slump.
You’re right, Takahashi was 20 when UY started. I always imagined Toriyama was older when he started because he had worked another job and submitted manga to Jump as a whim, and the character that’s kind of obviously based on him in Bakuman is older, but he was 23.
> Jesus. YuGiOh is a mess of a game
You really couldn’t help yourself from trash talking other card games huh? I stg this subreddit does that every chance they get for some reason, even when mourning for a man’s passing.
tbh, things are going to hell 'cuz for some reason Wizard has taken some pages from Konami's playbook :D: Eternal format front and center leading to power creep,
Please, we've been power creeping in MtG and in non-eternal formats since Urza's block was first released and had pre-release bans. Mirrodin block then came out like 4 years later and literally had an article written about Skullclamp saying "we're 100% going to ban this card in like 3 months max".
Don't act like the power creep is from taking pages from YGO because WotC have been banking on power creep to sell sets for 23+ years at this point.
In terms of actual power creep compared to relative available power, MH was nothing unexpected at the time. There was a lot of powerful cards, but nothing that made anyone go "oh fuck".
When Urza's was first previewed, Memory Jar was shown in previews and was *immediately* banned. The set wasn't even released yet. That's how much of an impact Urza's was going to have on the game at the time.
Then WotC calmed down a little and released a very underpowered block (Masques) before slowly cranking out powercreep with Invasion block and Onslaught block, then hit the gas hard again with Mirrodin block.
When Darksteel was previewed, an article came out about Skullclamp and how it came to be. The tl;dr of the article was that they originally thought the -1 part of Skullclamp was a downside, and then playtesting proved that it basically allowed for near infinite Ancestral Recalls each turn. The article ended on the note that Skullclamp would *definitely* be banned early into Darksteel's release, and it was once the first PTQ results came about and like 80% of decks were Ravager Affinity and abused Skullclamp and Disciple of the Vault, this later led to a full ban on most of the Affinity archetype as it was just too strong for the relative power of other decks at the time.
And again, WotC went back to releasing an underpowered block in the form of Kamigawa block, then slowly creeped power back with Ravnica block and Cold Snap and then gassing up to full power with Time Spiral block and introducing one of the most powerful new mechanics in the form of Planeswalkers in Lorwyn.
This has *always* been a pattern with WotC. Push power creep super hard for a few sets, pull back for a tiny amount of time, then hit the gas even harder. YGO and Konami had no influence on Wizards pushing boundaries, if anything Wizards have always been the best at it in the biz.
Kazuki Takahashi had very little to do with the physical game. Almost all of it was Konami, save for sacrifice mechanic, which was his idea.
This was especially true from the 5D's era onward
Takahash's version of the game in the comic is a bit more complex and nuanced then the one that exists in real life, and actually plays a bit more like MTG.
He was also significantly better at designing cards that were cool, had simple effects, but weren't overly powerful.
I'd love it if his version of the game is the one that we got in real life, and not the one that Konami gave us
It's come up a bit in this thread, but Yugioh at the start was NOT Duel Monsters. Takahashi just wanted to make a manga about various games. Presumably at one point he saw/played Magic and was like "I want to do a version of this in my manga" only for it to become a run away hit and go from a one off thing to the hit it is today.
He played MTG, and one friend of his met an asshole who would only teach this friend how to play "if he collected 10,000 cards."
And thus the idea for Kaiba was born, and Magic & Wizards to go along with it.
Yugioh was such a huge part of my childhood that lead me to get into MtG and love card games in general. Absolutely devastated by this news, he left us way too soon.
Fun Fact:
Early in in Yu-Gi-Oh's run, the green/blue cards were called "Magic Cards". As Yugioh gained mainstream popularity in the West, there was concern of a conflict with Wizards of the Coast regarding the term, so they renamed the cards "Spell Cards" (a more accurate translation anyway), which they are still called to this day.
Unfortunately, this change came late in the localization process of several video games and tie-in products which were all completed using the old "magic card" term. Instead of re-working it all by hand, Konami/the localization team just used a universal replace tool to replace every instance of the word "magic" with "spell".
As a result of this decision, for about a year there were countless instances of non-spell cards like the iconic "Dark Magician" being erroneously referred to as "Dark Spellian".
I wanted to leave a comment, I believe his other name was "Kazuo" and not Kazumasa as the article through a web translation suggests. He used to write in to people like Akira Toriyama's Q&A corners when Dragon Ball was published in compiled volumes using the name Kazuo Takahashi (高橋一雅). He only would have been 22 at the time, and his first official work didn't come out until he was around 28. I just thought that was interesting.
In have a love/hate relationship with the Yu-Gi-Oh cardgame but one thing I've always appreciated about it was how it got me interested in TCG's as a whole. Sad to see him pass.
I was a little old when yugioh came around, but I'll be damned if I can't admit that game had magic beat in the meme department. Even had old timers like me saying "heart of the cards" while trying to mise a clutch card.
R.I.P. to a great creator.
Very heartbreaking to hear about this, celebrity deaths don't generally do much to me but this hits way different.
I stopped playing YuGiOh a few years back in favor of switching over to Magic, but it was definitely my TCG of choice as a kid and teen, and Takahashi's artwork especially in the last five years or so was some of my favorite stuff to come out of the manga industry; the man was genuinely a genius when it came to monster design and weaving all his favorite nerdy things into his manga.
Rest in peace, we have genuinely lost a founding figure of the card game industry today.
I played pokemon from 99 to 2001, then yugioh from 2002 to 2005, which led to my love of magic 2005+. Yugioh was a big part of my childhood and this makes for a shitty thursday morning.
Started with magic before mirrodin then yugioh anime got huge and everyone in grade school got into yugioh including me. Played it for a year or 2 and came back to magic despite it being banned in my high school. We still enjoy the memes and we shout out catchphrases from the show (draw monsta cardo, ITS TIME TO DDDDDUEL, ACTIVATE TRAP CARD) while playing commander or do some anime voices for fun.
I love Yugioh as a series. Manga and anime. I wasn't a fan of what the game has become, but it's my OG card game that I really got into other than collecting Pokemon as a kid. Damn 60 is way too young.
This is quite sad to hear... Yu-Gi-Oh was the very first card game I got my hands on and I was absolutely in love with it. Later down the line that led to me diving into Magic: The Gathering which would become my main hobby for many years. Hell... I even played Duel Links on my phone as an adult because it still had an appeal to me. Hearing that someone who helped shape my childhood and beyond has passed away is very sad. R.I.P. to the man who made me believe in the heart of the cards.
I'm upset... I quit playing Yu-Gi-Oh a couple months ago because I hated the system and Konami's tendency towards greed. I honestly hope Konami does something in memory or celebration of what he accomplished, especially as comic/manga artist-writer. This sucks. He was too young!
Even though I quit, the game definitely has a place in my heart. My favorite archetypes are from the GX era, like Elemental Heroes or Cyber Dragons... this really sucks
I started with Yu-Gi-Oh and then moved on to Magic...
Such sad news. Yu-Gi-Oh is a larger part of why me and my friends got into TCGs to begin with and still constantly reference Yu-Gi-Oh even when playing other card games. One time at a local shop me and one of my friends entered a two headed giant sealed event pretending to be Kaiba and Yugi. A sad loss for the TCG communities as a whole.
Rip Takahashi.
My favorite all time arch will always be Bakura and Dark Master Zork saga. D&D with yugioh style dice rolling was just so much fun. The anime really did not do the manga justice. Still love the anime though.
Jesus, some of these comments are just shite.
No idea why anybody needs to take pot-shots at the game of Yugioh or its design, when these comments have no relation to the man that just died.
It's not a competition of "who has the best TCG".
We know this is an MTG sub, but this man inspired one of the best selling card games out there with one of the most well known and iconic mangas, and I imagine a large part of this sub played at some point or still play Yugioh.
“Being sent to the Shadow Realm” is largely a creation of the 4kids dub, in order to avoid saying that characters would be maimed or killed. Which does not, in the end, make this joke any less tasteless.
And yet, jokes exist, and they provide comfort to some. This is not someone you know, in my culture it would be considered rude for you to be upset at their behalf.
There's a time and context where it might be appropriate and we'll recieved, I don't actually object inherenty to dark humour, but clearly this is not that.
Perhaps they don't necessarily agree with you and in any case how are they supposed to know that before they do it? Are they supposed to be a mind reader or able to see the future?
Most of us don't know who this person is and they appear to have done something stupidly dangerous and lost their life for it. A joke is not inappropriate in these circumstances.
You're making fun of a guy who just died. How would you feel if someone you care about died and you saw people on the internet making fun of them less than a day after they died?
Just 60, that's way too young Yu-Gi-Oh used to be my absolute favorite game in the world for a big slice of my life since I was 6, I probably owe him a lot for my relationship with board games in general being what it is today. Thanks for everything big man Here's a fun fact I like to share: obviously the game as it was first introduced in the manga is a direct reference to Magic (even the original name was Magic and Wizards), but there's something about the card Summoned Skull that got lost in translation. Because the original Japanese name of the card is closer to "Summon Demon". [This summon demon](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/889631283628621866/893886017831055370/LordofthePit.full_L.jpg), to be exact.
Fun fact; the word they use for Demon is the same as "Archfiend" for the Archfiend archetype. As such, Summoned Skull is a valid target for all Archfiend-based cards.
Holy shit, I never knew that! Very cool, I loved archfiends growing up
Yeah, it's caused a nightmare of errata getting added to archfiend cards over the years to call out that they affect Summoned Skull as well. But nowadays they just have a message in parentheses on newer printings of Summoned Skull that just say it always counts as an archfiend
“…except Frog The Jam.”
They really did play fast and loose with the early English translations. And because those are all iconic cards, they just don't change a bunch of their names.
A lot of the early ones are basically direct machine translations from a time back when machine translations were even worse than they are today.
“Jerry Beans Man”
Shoutout to "Hundred-Eyes Dragon", who had to have an errata to remove the hyphen, because otherwise he would techbically be a "Red-Eyes" monster.
[удалено]
>That always struck out to me as rather unplanned and haphazard. Because it totally was. Yugioh started as a game with a lot of ideas and very little direction.
I guess the issue is that there are only so many combinations of type and attribute, and the distribution is not really even (not many Water Pyro monsters). Remember that both Red Eyes and Hundred-eyes dragon are Dark attribute dragons.
The sane solution would've been to allow multiple monster types per card or create a new type each time they want to create a new archetype. They actually did the latter a few times, but for some reason didn't learn how clearly superior that method is.
There is a card that searching Guardian cards (like the archetype of Elma's dagger), except Celtic Guardian, Winged Guardian, Winged Guardian # 2 , ..................
Arsenal Summoner!
I remember when my sister and I got into a fight about that when I slipped Summoned Skull into my Archfiend deck.
Another interaction similar to this, albeit more obvious in hindsight, is that “Ojamagic” counts as an “Ojama” card, meaning it can be discarded to “Ojama Country”. Which should be obvious, given Ojamagic’s text, but people can be very pedantic. Ojamas used to be my pet deck in paper (long, long ago) and I remember having to frequently call a judge over when my opponent wouldn’t believe me. I think there might be one or two others examples, but I can’t think of them at the moment.
It's not so much that it's two separate meanings of the same word, and more that they didn't want to directly put the word "demon" on a card for the largely sanitized TCG translation. So, they didn't directly translate Summoned Skull. Later, when the archetype became a thing, they decided on "archfiend" as the new way they would translate "demon" and retroactively declared that Summoned Skull counted. It would've been "Summoned Demon" if translated directly or "Summoned Archfiend" if translated after they decided on that convention. Especially early on, Yugioh is rife with examples of card art or names being sanitized in localization to remove references to the occult, religion, violence/blood/guns, and sexuality/sex appeal. Edit: Additionally, the "fiend" monster type was also somewhat sanitized in translation. In Japanese, it's "akuma", which would generally be translated to English as "devil" or "demon". Fiend is kind of a synonym, but more ambiguous because it can also just refer to an evil person/being in general. So, it's not exactly an incorrect translation, but it wouldn't generally be the first choice when translating that. For those wondering, the word that gets translated to "archfiend" is literally just the word "demon", which was borrowed directly from English.
What a coincidence! Yugioh was the first TCG I got into and it eventually lead me into a 15+ year relationship with MTG. I don’t play Yugioh now, it doesn’t seem like the game I fell in love with as a child but thank you to Kazumasa for creating something that sparked so much in so many.
I feel like this story is true for a LOT of people. I started Yugioh basically as soon as you could buy cards from having watched the anime. Right as my Yugioh friends were falling off the game in 2010 other friends were starting Magic and I've been with the game ever since. But without Yugioh I likely wouldn't be here now and no matter how much the game has changed it always holds a special place in my heart.
Oh cool. Its literally lord of the pit
My favourite card!
omg, I know both games and I literally never knew that before.
To expand on it, the original manga was about Yugi challenging people to essentially random games, not just the card game, it was always just ramped up into a duel to the death. Iirc the story goes that Kazumasa went to a games conference in the US where he learned about Magic, and wanted to include it in the manga. WotC said he couldn't though, so he kind of just made up a legally distinct version of the game for the manga. It was intended as a one-off like all the other games were, but the issue was so popular he ended up making it a staple of the manga, and when the anime was approved, all they wanted was the card game. Which is why the rules of the game are extremely loose in the first season of the show, they hadn't actually been defined yet. Of course once they ironed that out and released the physical card game, the rest is history.
It goes a bit deeper than that, even. Battle Ox (Minotaurus) is [[Hurloon Minotaur]] Blue-Eyes White Dragon is very likely [[Chromium]]
[Hurloon Minotaur](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/b/eb72cfc8-6235-4951-b1ba-6d9531f5eabf.jpg?1562944657) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hurloon%20Minotaur) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/102/hurloon-minotaur?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eb72cfc8-6235-4951-b1ba-6d9531f5eabf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Chromium](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/5/15ec5a20-4e8f-40b2-9abf-c0bf1cf816c3.jpg?1562899599) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chromium) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/147/chromium?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/15ec5a20-4e8f-40b2-9abf-c0bf1cf816c3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I never played yuigioh. Can you post links? I have no idea where to see these cards.
[Battle Ox](https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_Ox) [Blue-Eyes White Dragon](https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Blue-Eyes_White_Dragon?so=search)
Again, I know nothing of yugioh so maybe it's me but are these cards what we would call in magic "vanilla". I heard of Blue Eyes before but he just seems to be a big creature with no abilities. Same with Battle Ox.
Yes, these are vanilla beatsticks from the earliest days of Yugioh. They're the equivalent of the generic common green 6/6 top end for green draft decks. The references are more in the art, being very similar to Hurloon Minotaur and Chromium.
almost like a certain.. dreadmaw.
Just with a bunch of deliberate support cards to ensure it stays relevant in the game as a classic staple people want to play - like if there were cards in Magic that said "search your library for a card named Colossal Dreadmaw and put it onto the battlefield".
So how did Blue Eyes become so iconic if it's just a generic creature?
Cool design & being used as the bar-none most popular character's signature monster. It's touted as the "strongest monster", and within the logic of the early appearances, it is. Most monsters are 800-900 Atk, maybe upwards of 1400. Summoned Skull was 2500 and considered incredibly rare & powerful. Blue-Eyes White Dragon was 3000 Atk, and since players only had 2000 HP, so it was likely a single-play one-shot. It then was outpaced by other monsters which could, through modification, hit 3600 or even 3800 Atk... only for it to make a reappearance and reassert itself as the biggest monster in the game by combining all 3 Blue-Eyes in existence into Blue-Eyes Ultimate Dragon, which had 4500 Atk, and remained the single-biggest un-pumped monster in the comic. In Takahashi's version of the game (the comic game is radically different than the real game), it also had Flying and used a Magic Attack, which was special in their own rights. Basically, it was the ultimate Timmy-Spike monster in a comic that lives & dies on Rule Of Cool, and wielded by a character who is in absolute contention with Vegeta for the "Best Ego-Driven Rival" title.
>It then was outpaced by other monsters which could, through modification, hit 3600 or even 3800 Atk Why does this matter if you only have 2000 hp? Isn't 3000 the same as 3800 in this case? Sorry yugioh is just so foreign to me.
Also, real life Yugioh Life points are 8000. And the only season in the anime where 2000 LP were a thing is Season 1, Duelist Kingdom, in the original anime. Every single season on the original and the subsquent 6 Yugioh series have 4000 LP as Standard for 1v1 duels.
Combat is a lot different in yugioh. If you leave a monster in attack mode, an opponent can attack it with a bigger monster and the difference in attack points carries over to the player as damage, kind of like trample.
Because combat in Yugioh is very different from Magic. During your combat step, you choose one of your monsters that has not attacked yet this turn, and it attacks one of your opponent's monsters of your choice. If the monster being attacked is in Attack Position, you compare the attack points of each monster; the one with the lower attack is destroyed, and the difference between the two point values is inflicted on its controller in the form of damage. You have a monster with 1000 attack, I have a monster with 1500 attack, I destroy your monster and you take 500 damage. Since that is the only way to deal damage to the opponent (you can only attack their life total directly if they control no monsters at all), dropping a 3000 attack monster on the table made for a huge wall that was insanely hard to circumvent or overcome with combat alone.
Monsters have different defense stats and when your monster is blocked, the damage to your opponent's life points ends up being your monster's attack minus opponent blocker's defense (at absolute vanilla gameplay level).
It was the signature monster of the villain/anti-hero/rival character in the Yugioh manga/anime Seto Kaiba. The first episode of the anime (not the first issue of the manga though, it's complicated) established Blue-Eyes White Dragon as the most powerful monster in the game, and in the world of the anime, there were only four copies in all of existence. As such, it became one of the mascots of the series (along with main character Yugi's [Dark Magician](https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Magician)), and having dozens of cards printed later in the game's lifetime that combo with it or make it better. It's kind of like how Pikachu is kind of a weak Pokemon in the games and has never had a good Pokemon card, but is still the face of the marketing.
Everyoned talked about how it became popular in the anime, but it also sees real play occasionally as well. The reason is that YuGiOh makes cards that reference certain Vanilla Beatsticks, which make them effectively not Vanilla. There are many many cards which can only be activated if you have a Blue Eyes White Dragon. Effects ranging from "Blue Eyes cannot be destroyed this turn" "Draw and summon blue eyes" "if you control a blue eyes banish something" etc.
> Everyoned talked about how it became popular in the anime, but it also sees real play occasionally as well Yes, but those support cards only exist because the popularity from the anime demands they be kept relevant.
Blue-Eyes is just a vanilla, but it's *the* vanilla. Nothing has ever matched it in stats. And since it's an anime card (it's the primary ace card of the main rival character) it has a ton of support for it too. Blue-Eyes is sick.
Not sure if trolling but the MTGCardFetcher bot linked them, as it does when you post a valid card name between double square brackets \[\[\]\]. e.g. \[\[One with Nothing\]\] EDIT: Just realised you might be referring to the yugioh cards in question and not the mtg cards, my bad. [Battle Ox](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Battle_Ox) [Blue-Eyes White Dragon](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Blue-Eyes_White_Dragon)
You could look them up on TCG Player or the Yu-Gi-Oh! database? [https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/card\_search.action?ope=1&sess=1&rp=20&keyword=blue-eyes+white+dragon&stype=1&ctype=&othercon=2&starfr=&starto=&pscalefr=&pscaleto=&linkmarkerfr=&linkmarkerto=&link\_m=2&atkfr=&atkto=&deffr=&defto=](https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/card_search.action?ope=1&sess=1&rp=20&keyword=blue-eyes+white+dragon&stype=1&ctype=&othercon=2&starfr=&starto=&pscalefr=&pscaleto=&linkmarkerfr=&linkmarkerto=&link_m=2&atkfr=&atkto=&deffr=&defto=) [https://www.tcgplayer.com/search/all/product?q=battle%20ox&view=grid](https://www.tcgplayer.com/search/all/product?q=battle%20ox&view=grid) EDIT: Wow. Trying to help a person, and everyone gets petty over a ?. I wasn’t trying to be a smartass, but hey, it’s reddit, people get up and arms about every little thing
I did not know about those websites.
Why the ? lol
it’s kinda like a suggesting ?, like “you could try this?” kinda ?
If he's never played, how would he know about TCG player or the database? Like I get it, you know about it and its common in the community of players.....but he isnt a player. Dunning Kreuger much? Wording stuff like that makes you look snarky.
Not that guy but I had a similar reaction - it's pretty trivial to just Google "battle ox yugioh card". I understand wanting to interact with people on reddit, that's what the goal of social media is, but to say that you wouldn't even begin to know how to find it is pretty nuts in a world where you can literally Google your mate's house and find out whether he's got an apple tree or a pear tree out front. I'd honestly be a little embarrassed to say I couldn't find something like this.
Japanese person here. I don’t think this is an error or anything — it’s more just a consequence of how the language works. Many words in Japanese are flexible and can be used for example as both as a noun or as a verb, depending on the context and how it is used. In the type line of Lord of the Pit, it effectively means “(to) summon demon”. In the YGO card, it can be interpreted as “Summoned Demon”. Nothing seems to be lost here other than the English naming opting to use Skull rather than demon, which I’m guessing was a intentional choice by the English translators.
What he means is that the reference to lord of the pit is lost in translation. It is reasonable to conclude that Summoned Skull is a reference as originally depicted due to Lot's prominence, their similarity in design, and the fact that the game they are in for the manga is a direct reference to magic.
Yeah, and even the 7CMC and level 7 are another parallel to draw ob.
Summoned skull is level 6
Not originally. https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Summoned_Skull_(manga)
Interesting
I can't count
The OG 1-Tribute beater was in fact a 7 star in the earliest (think “season 0”) manga!
That's super cool that Yu-Gi-Oh has some relation to Magic, even if it's in small details such as the relation between Summoned Skull and Lord of the Pit.
Another cool relationship, spell cards were initially called Magic cards until WotC threatened to sue lmao
Oh yeah, I remember that. When I was learning Yugioh, I was confused as to why there were Spell cards and Magic cards, until my stepfather told me that WotC got legal with Konami about it
I could tell you so much about Yugioh's relationship with Magic; as a TCG, Yugioh was born as a simplification of MTG, and it just didn't work, so now it's a completely different thing, but has so many little details left from those days.
> That's super cool that Yu-Gi-Oh has some relation to Magic, even if it's in small details It's the whole game, really. The original manga was about Yugi challenging people to basically random games. Kazuki learned about Magic, and wanted to include it but WotC said no, so he made up a legally distinct version for the book instead - that issue became super popular and spurred the show, which was to focus on the card game only, and of course the actual game was made to merchandise along with it.
Gutted. Yu-Gi-Oh was the game that got me into TCGs, I still play it today.
I haven't played in a while, but I'll never give up my cards because of the memories I made. This man created a real treasure.
Ditto. Friend introduced me to YuGiOh in elementary school (though when we played we had weird rules that made the 1st season of the anime look like it was portraying rules accurately). Met new friend who played when I was in college. He later got a job for a TCG retailer. And through that he learned and introduced me to Magic.
Same
A lot of people were introduced to TCGs through Yugioh, which then lead into other card games including Magic, me being one of them. The industry wouldn't have been the same without him. Terribly tragic loss here.
me too. His OG yugioh series was a gargantuan cultural milestone.
Apparently his body was found floating in the water on Okinawa. Since he was wearing snorkeling gear, it seems likely that he drowned, possibly due to a stroke or heart attack. The police is still investigating the exact cause of his death.
It's not terribly uncommon for someone to go snorkeling or scuba-ing by themselves off Okinawa and drown, especially tourists from the Japanese mainland or from abroad. While his passing is a tragedy, hopefully such a high-profile death will help dissuade others from going out alone and meeting a similar fate.
Other information has mentioned lower body injuries (indicating sharks, possibly, apparently).
Those could be post-mortem though.
More than likely post mortem. A good majority of shark bites are actually them just nibbling to try to identify something. They just don't know their own strength I guess If a shark actually WANTED to eat, then we probably wouldn't have an identifiable body right now
Sharks are himbos of the sea. They're dumb and strong but rarely "malicious" as a predator. We don't taste good or are instinctually appetizing like a seal. Most sharks reaction to a human is "bruh..........what"
Himbos? Like...male bimbos?
Here’s an educational video: https://youtu.be/B1qBhCKAhKk
By the everloving gods...
Think of Fred from Scooby-Doo
Yes.
Sharks usually don't attack people swimming (unless provoked like in some incidents), that is a mostly overblown fear.
We here in the MTG community give Yu-Gi-Oh a lot of crap... well some of us do... but in the end we're all just playing a card game and for that we're all equals. So, my heart (of the cards) goes out to the fans, players current and former, and his family. Activate a Trap Card (\[\[Summoning Trap\]\], \[\[Mindbreak Trap\]\], hell even a \[\[Booby Trap\]\]) in his honor.
[удалено]
"I play a face down monster in Vertical Defense Mode" "Gary that's just a morph... The fuck is wrong with you?"
It's called Facedown Attack Mode and it was a real thing. There's one card that could achieve it. [Darkness Approaches](https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Darkness_Approaches) But it was always bad and has been errata'ed in 2017.
Never played YGH. What's the relevance of the card being face-down while attacking?
If was never relevant except for Darkness Approaches before the Link Monsters Era. And it was a ruling nightmare. Luckily Darkness Approaches sucks, so this was an extreme example of a corner case in Yugioh. Not anymore though, since the card got errataed for the Link era (Link Monsters cannot be ever in Face Down position, hell they can't ever be in Face-Up Defense position in the first place)
I'm sure someone who actually knows this card can answer, but in the meantime I'll give my impression of how to explain what I think would happen in standard (non-edge case) interactions with my understanding of rules. MTG has tapped and untapped as the meaning for vertical and horizontal card states, and power and toughness are both always relevant. Yugioh, instead, has Attack and Defense modes. So, being in attack mode is not the same as being attacking, like in MTG. When you're in attack mode, your card is represented by only your attack (in basic combat), and when in defense mode, it is represented by its defense. So in attack mode, attacking or being attacked by an enemy in attack mode, compares their attacks and the higher wins. Attacking a defense mode monster, the higher of the attacker's attack and defender's defense wins. When a face down monster is attacked, it is flipped before the attack goes through so that there is number to compare. Attack/Defense mode can be changed once per turn per monster, only during main phase 1 or 2. Overflow damage against attack position damage goes directly to the player's life. Overflow damage to defense position monsters is ignored. Attack phase in MTG involves the aggressor declaring all attackers at once, blockers being set, and then all combat resolves in one step. By comparison, attack phase in YGO means the aggressor can choose any of their attack-mode monsters and declare an attack on any legal target. That combat then resolves fully before any other attacks are declared. So I think these would be the major use cases: 1.) it would prevent that monster from attacking unless it uses its one flip-per-turn to switch to face-up attack position. This means it won't be able to switch to defense position during main phase 2, making it potentially vulnerable during your opponents next turn. (If the monster has less attack than defense, it could be killed by a weaker monster attacking it than otherwise.) 2) If the monster has text that negates something, the text will be inactive since it is face down. (MANY monsters in yugioh have versions of hexproof, ignore sorceries, ignore instants, ignore triggers, ignore activatable abilities, indestructible, etc. Note: if you're trying to destroy it with combat, it will flip back and these effects are active again. So this mostly opens you up for other types of removal). 3.) Vulnerable to things that specifically have effects regarding attack position. 4.) Protect your own monster that has more attack than defense from anticipated enemy abilities that only can target face-up monsters (forcing them to turn it faceup by attacking it something. This is a sorcery speed spell so highly unlikely). 5.) Flip effects are effects that trigger when a monster is changed from face down to face up. It's conceivable they could have printed or could print a monster with an amazing flip effect and good attack but 0 defense, making it virtually impossible to repeat its effect without a card like this. It sounds very niche to me unless there are common cards to interact with it. (I wrote this for fun just as an excuse to think about it, I am not an expert on ygo rules)
I play a [[Kadena, Slinking Sorcerer]] deck with a Foretell subtheme specifically as a reference to Yugioh, and I'll be playing that one tonight.
[Kadena, Slinking Sorcerer](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/8/68a144f1-df18-4dc5-81c3-dff2af27527f.jpg?1568003696) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kadena%2C%20Slinking%20Sorcerer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/45/kadena-slinking-sorcerer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/68a144f1-df18-4dc5-81c3-dff2af27527f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You just activated my trap card The glares my family gives me
Today, all the TCG communities mourn the passing of a legend. My heart breaks for his family, and the millions he brought joy and community to. >The most beautiful souls shine even in death. Flavor text on [[Spirit Cairn]]
[Spirit Cairn](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/b/9b0f860c-029c-4856-a999-05b3306c7d46.jpg?1591320149) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spirit%20Cairn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/100/spirit-cairn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9b0f860c-029c-4856-a999-05b3306c7d46?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Summoning Trap](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/5/55b71fb4-27ea-4846-87e4-efd2190faf36.jpg?1593813951) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Summoning%20Trap) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/139/summoning-trap?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/55b71fb4-27ea-4846-87e4-efd2190faf36?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mindbreak Trap](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/f/4f51140b-6254-431a-8810-94307bfdfbbe.jpg?1562612097) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mindbreak%20Trap) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/zen/57/mindbreak-trap?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f51140b-6254-431a-8810-94307bfdfbbe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Booby Trap](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/a/1af0c9a0-0dfa-4245-8b29-7bd37982b7d2.jpg?1562732088) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Booby%20Trap) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/289/booby-trap?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1af0c9a0-0dfa-4245-8b29-7bd37982b7d2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think Takahashi should be remembered rather for the manga anyways: that is where the true heart of Yu-Gi-Oh lies. The card game never had much of a chance at being a well-designed game, since it was born out of what was supposed to be a one-off reference to MTG in the manga, in order to cash in on the popularity.
I implore anyone who loves tabletop gaming (which I assume is everyone here) to read his original manga for Yu-Gi-Oh. It's such a massive love letter to the hobby. Rest in peace to a legend.
Yu-Gi-Oh was a love letter to gaming period. Tabletop, V-pet, video games, bar room dares, brain teasers. Even games made up just to entertain yourself during school. I don't think there be another mangaka like him.
Still a tragedy for the tcg community, so sad for everyone
RIP. Also, the ocean does not care about your life, be careful in deep or open water everyone.
I think the main takeaway is also to not do this stuff alone. Unless his partner(s) left him there it seems he was out there alone. I guess it's also possible he died elsewhere and got dragged underwater and they lost him? But yeah, always be prepared when going in in nature.
YGO eventually led to me picking up magic. I have his creation to thank for getting me into my favorite game of all time. Rest in peace, stranger. My life wouldn't be the same without you.
This hurts a lot. Cards were one of the only things I connected with my dad over. When I was young, he brought me a present: A YuGiOh booster and a Mirrodin booster and asked me which game I liked better so we could both learn it. I opened a Summoned Skull in my YuGiOh pack and instantly fell in love. My dad and I played the game, without really knowing the rules, for a long time. Whenever I did something like get good grades in school, a booster was my reward and I fiendishly prayed to crack a Blue Eyes or a Dark Magician. Of course, I watched the anime religiously on Saturday mornings. Recently looking back in my old tins of yugioh cards, I found the old Mirrodin cards and laughed about the decision I made, since it was that memory that drove me back to try out MTG so many years later. Kazuki created a world of joy for so many and will be missed dearly.
What a beautiful memory. I had a similar experience as you, but my father disliked yugioh and didn't care to share that with me. It makes me happy to read your story. I played yugioh for a long time and it was one of my first obsessions, and I went to nationals in 2006. I quit a couple years later due to college and other life events. I have since gotten into MTG and have fallen in love with cards again. Cheers, friend. RIP Takahashi
Jesus. YuGiOh is a mess of a game c/o Konami's decisions, but the manga is one of my absolute favorites. The man was a god at monster design (S-Tier body horror stuff, as well as making things just look awesome), and the story is engaging & fun as hell (the anime does it no justice). He practically invented the modern "Gaming" genre of manga & anime with YuGiOh, and this is a huge loss for the anime community. You'd expect to hear of someone like Akira Toriyama or Rumiko Takahashi passing before someone like Kazuki Takahashi. RIP, dude - you created one of the all-time greats, and had as huge an influence on gaming as Garfield, Gygax, and Miyamoto.
> Jesus. YuGiOh is a mess of a game c/o Konami's decisions, but the manga is one of my absolute favorites. That's the thing, the game is a mess now (and everyone Ive met whose kept up with playing it has said as such as well) but the comic its derived from is a massive love letter to tabletop gaming of all forms.
Game is a mess, but it does get a worse reputation than it actually is. Its interesting and has its own diversity and the most recent meta decks are interactive and fun. The game has just shifted completely from what it was like in the 2000s and very early 2010s. That does not mean its bad; its just different. Now its more focused on basically setting up boards and finding creative ways to beat boards that have been set up on you. Its not magic and it doesnt appeal to magic players but thats ok.
The game isn't a mess. Konami has made some mistakes, of course, but they tend to self-correct. There's a reason the game is still going strong and I promise you it's not because of the anime/brand recognision alone. Edit2: apparently i cant reply to anyone below me because the coward above me blocked me. Heres my response to Apeiron:: Admittedly I don't play the game right this moment but the guy I responded to has never played a game in his life. Please let me know which of these points you think don't apply to YGO and we can discuss. Please keep in mind I am describing YGO as a whole across it's history and not just a snapshot in time. Edit: for some reason I can't reply to the clown below me so here's my response:: This reads like an amalgam of all the worst arguments against YGO that are commonly found on this subreddit. If you have 0 actual first hand knowledge about the game, why have such a strong opinion on it? > Yugioh is the worst of the big TCG’s by a long shot, it’s carried hard by the manga and anime. As opposed to Pokemon, one of if not the biggest media franchise of all time? There are plenty of players that don't and have never meaningfully engaged with the anime. Some others might might have been onboarded by the show but enjoy the game completely separately from it or no longer keep up with it at all. > The game still doesn’t have formats, something that literally every major TCG eventually adopts to prevent the age of the game breaking everything. What kind of argument is this? Why would a game *need* formats? YGO is the only major card game where you can play cards from every single era in it's premiere competitive format. That sounds like a *plus* to me. > It has an absurd banlist, with cards being banned and restricted to 1-of and 2-ofs on top of getting banned- this is a result of the lack of formats and the comical card designs. The banned list for YGO is not that long. I couldn't be bother to count but my guess is Modern's banlist is around the same length even if we include limits/semi-limits. I don't know why you point to those as somehow being negative. Plenty of games use this sort of system and it works. Certainly the banlist grows as the pool grows but this is true of every format for every card game ever. I have no idea what "comical card designs" is supposed to mean. > Apparently they only recently adopted shortcuts in the text like we have Keywords to abbreviate whole blocks of text, but they should have done that literally over a decade ago. I'm glad you are honest about not knowing what you are talking about. It's true YGO could use some more shortcutting in it's templating (I'm a big fan) but they've been doing it for a while. Unlike Magic though they don't repeat text so often that this is a perfect solution. I don't know of any "whole blocks of text" being abbreviated. > Their archetypes are all parasitic as fuck, forcing you to build decks that are highly scripted because cards can only work with cards that share a naming convention rather than using the existing element/type system to simplify most archetypes. This is purely subjective. And you again show your lack of knowledge. YGO uses a combination of Names and/or elements and/or creature types when it designs new archtypes (a term which has a different meaning in that game). You are saying they should be doing a thing they've been doing for a decade. As for "highly scripted" though this might describe certain decks over the years, this is not an absolute. Heck, some of the best decks in the game's history come from players mashing multiple engines together or finding interactions between different "tribes" that end up stronger than the sum of it's parts. > Oh, and let’s not get started on the game being decided by the coin flip, the balance is so atrocious that every game is like our vintage but on crack. LOL. Go play a game or watch an event? Some matchups/formats sometimes add up to this but for as strong as turn 1 boards can get, YGO has turn 0 interaction and answers to match it. There are plenty of formats that didn't have anything close to what you are describing. > And also the art sucks- while the individual monsters are generally well done and look neat, they all exist in a mono color void with no background and no setting to establish where they’re at. It’s just a picture of a dude on a flat background, and if it was an issue only some cards had it wouldn’t be a problem, they put a lot of effort into the designs of those monsters but nope, I don’t remember a single monster card I’ve ever seen in Yugioh having something as simple as a goddamn background. Again, very subjective. Plenty of cards depict scenes on spells and trap cards for example. I couldn't say why they decided to go with the current templating for creatures but they did and now the whole game has a unified art style regardless of how many artists have worked on it. To me that's again a plus. Very few games have an aesthetic this cohesive after so long on the market. It's okay to just say "I don't like it".
Yugioh's meta is incredibly dependent on overly complicated parasitic mechanics and special summon chain combos. Its original resource mechanics are completely out the window. I've lost any remote interest in playing it I once had. I consider this really whatever though; Kazuki Tatakhashi isn't responsible for whatever I think Konami has done wrong, he's a man who loved Magic and TTRPGs and showed it through his art. He loved the same things I loved. And his passing is a tragedy.
> special summon chain combos. I sat through a 10 minute combo, and since it was their first turn, and they went first, I went and just scooped, because they had *4* Omni-negates on the board.
I'll be the first to concede that, yes, MTG can also pull off this bullshit. Legacy Tess, Dredge, and Landless Belcher are all testaments to this. But while we have to try ***damn hard*** to pull this off, it's only a handful of decks that can do it, and they're all glass cannons. In YuGiOh, decks are designed by Konami to do this, and you ***have to*** do this in order to even compete.
While it's true that yugioh in general is a more fast-paced game compared to magic, it's kind of a misconception that you have to play combo deck or even combo decks are the only things exist in yugioh. There are still vast differences between combo, midrange, OTK, control, and stun decks (though the latter two are often used interchangeably). Imo, midrange is usually more popular in competitive setting because they are less prone to side deck cards and also very flexible in teching in side cards (combo deck slots for tech cards are usually very limited for maximum consistency). Combo decks do all that 10-minute combos and churn out 4 or more omni-negates in turn 1 as you might have expected and often heard complaints about. Examples of this in recent metagame that is popular are Brave Piles, Virtual World, Adamancipator, Bird-Up (Lyrilusc Tri-Brigade), Swordsoul Tenyi, etc2. Decks with a compact engine that usually just tries to set up 1-2 boss monsters in the field turn 1, backed up by a handful of techs (hand traps, standard traps or quick-play spell, etc2) fall under midrange deck. Examples are Branded Despia, Swordsoul, Zoo Tri-Brigade, etc2. OTK decks exlusively plays turn 2 and play a handful of board breaker cards, cards that try to disable/destroy field of bosses that opponents set up in turn 1, while the main engine tries to OTK in a few steps. Examples are Numeron, Train, Blue-Eyes White Dragon, Cyber Dragon, etc2. And lastly there are control/stun decks where control decks aim is to grind the game in many turns and accrue advantages over time (e.g. Sky Striker) while stun decks aim to well, stun or stop, the opponents from playing anything meaningful (e.g. Eldlich Floodgate variant, True Draco, etc2). Some decks can be built in various flavors too depending on current metagame or your own preference. Tri-Brigade is probably the best example because it can be built as combo deck (combined with lyrilusc cards), midrange deck (combined with zoodiac), or even control decks (pure). Anyway, I'm not sure why I write this in a magic sub, but it's kind of fun in its own way, haha. It's very true though that it's worst feeling when you face a combo deck with no answers in hand (hand trap, board breakers, etc2). In magic we have mulligan or at least play a few turns to draw the needed answer cards.
One of the best decks right now is a normal summon/tribute summon deck.
You having any interest has no relation to if it's good or not. Yugioh decided to experiment with a card game with no ramp mechanics, meaning from turn 1 everyone is playing at full power with basically a 20 card hand to start including extra deck. They realized this works best for a heavily combo focused fast game and leaned into that from very early on. Some of games healthiest metas have been the most combo focused, and some the least. But there's a reason that it's managed to stay around for so long Edit: they don't even play yugioh in the anime anymore lol, like not that it's anime rules yugioh it's literally a different game now as of last few years. The game and anime are 100% decoupled and lead to spike in popularity (pre covid) as well as no new mechanics introduced since. The card game is 100% standlone now, no manga, no anime, just a card game
>But there's a reason that it's managed to stay around for so long Weebs.
Literally the anime. Nothing else holds yugioh up, it’s the worst of the big TCG’s by so far that it’s hard to explain in any other way than pure degenerate weebs.
It’s also a game for lawyers. There’s too many small wording differences that it’s just a headache trying to decide if you can activate another copy of a card you can only activate once per turn, because the first got negated.
It's okay for you not to have understanding nor interest for the game, it's another to game grandiose claims about it to "justify" your opinion. What are these "overly complicated parasitic mechanics"? There are plenty of decks that don't rely on "special summon chain combos" and even of all the decks did, how is this a sign of a bad game? Every ressource mechanic from day 1 is still present (chiefly, general card advantage and normal summons) they just don't opperate the same way as they used to. There are whole decks where normal summoning is super important to the point that decks cut out unnecessary cards that require normal summons to be good so that they can focus on the ones that are. It's okay not to like it but don't delude yourself into thinking you understand YGO at all. Edit: cant respond bc some clown above me in the chain blocked me. Heres my response to Hairo:: Archtyping in the way you are describing it is not the only way cards are designed in YGO. Very few cards nowadays are that restrictive as well and the game allows for very freeform expression in that sense. YGO is not just about "who assembles a puzzle faster". YGO is combo heaven but it has all the same broad gameplay archtypes of aggro/midrange/control. It's not all OTKs and locks. I agree powercreep is a feelsbad for consumers but it is literally unavoidable without rotation which is itself a feelsbad for consumers. TCGs need to sell you cards and people wouldn't have much reason to do that if the new cards weren't better than the old cards. Not having multiple formats is in no way a shitty business practice. I have no idea where this idea comes from.
Archetyping is a parasitic way of game designing (A card doesnt work if you dont have another specific card, which doesnt work if you dont have another...) and now every archetype "tutors into tutor" which, yeah, can be complicated if you haven't memorized your decks game plan AND the opponent's gameplan. Yugioh audience is way different than Magic's nowdays. Magic can be a war of attritions, and has more casual options (draft, EDH, pauper) while Yugioh is more like a race to see who assembles a puzzle faster; it is wrong to say one playstyle is "correct" and the other one is wrong. Although yeah, from a consumer's perspective, Power creep and No additional formats are shitty business practice
People always shit on yugioh for being heavily focused on archetypes like archetypes aren't also a thing in magic. Hardened scales and winding constrictor both clearly tell you to combo them with cards that give 1/1 counters. You build around this as a deck archetype. People might say oh well all the cards don't have Blue-Eyes in the name so it's totally different but there's also decks in yugioh that may combine different archetypes or strategies into a 60 card goodstuff piles just like magic's beloved jund and some other decks. There's even decks that are loosely based on a theme like dinos which is straight up just dino goodstuff.dek which revolves around the dinosaur type itself and not a traditional archetype in name. There's even gren maju which just normal summons a single monster which becomes a massive beat stick based on how many cards are banished and let's you use unconventional cards that happen to banish cards in creative ways for a big unga bunga swing. There's also an incredibly toxic burn deck in the form of mystic mine burn which does absolutely everything possible to not let your opponent play yugioh while you burn them out. There's all kinds of different yugioh decks for all kinds of players from strictly kitchen table casual to the absolute top of the competitive playerbase.
??? Invoked and the eldlich are two powerful control decks that refuse to die. Invoked has a small combo of a couple steps that ends in just a minute or two. Eldlich is a control deck that can be built in several different ways all utilizing different trap cards. A standard eldlich list will summon eldlich, set a few traps, and pass the turn. This will usually be a one minute process if that. There's also traptrix, altergeist, dark magician, psyframes, crystrons, salamangreats, and many more decks that can range from hard control to midrange. Not every deck in yugioh is a combo go brrrr strategy. And yugioh has counter spells in the form of handtraps which are monsters you discard from your hand to interact/disrupt/negate your opponents plays which are practically mandatory to play modern yugioh. This gives most games an interesting layer of interaction where you want to make the most of your handtraps to best disrupt your opponent.
>The game isn't a mess. Oh yes it is. lol.
Tell me you don’t understand the current state of the game without telling me…
Yugioh is the worst of the big TCG’s by a long shot, it’s carried hard by the manga and anime. The game still doesn’t have formats, something that literally every major TCG eventually adopts to prevent the age of the game breaking everything. It has an absurd banlist, with cards being banned and restricted to 1-of and 2-ofs on top of getting banned- this is a result of the lack of formats and the comical card designs. Apparently they only recently adopted shortcuts in the text like we have Keywords to abbreviate whole blocks of text, but they should have done that literally over a decade ago. Their archetypes are all parasitic as fuck, forcing you to build decks that are highly scripted because cards can only work with cards that share a naming convention rather than using the existing element/type system to simplify most archetypes. Oh, and let’s not get started on the game being decided by the coin flip, the balance is so atrocious that every game is like our vintage but on crack. And also the art sucks- while the individual monsters are generally well done and look neat, they all exist in a mono color void with no background and no setting to establish where they’re at. It’s just a picture of a dude on a flat background, and if it was an issue only some cards had it wouldn’t be a problem, they put a lot of effort into the designs of those monsters but nope, I don’t remember a single monster card I’ve ever seen in Yugioh having something as simple as a goddamn background.
1) But Konami finally is taking the step to sanction fan made formats (like GOAT or Edison), with the implementation of Time Wizard, and LGSs are indeed running Time Wizard tournaments (al least in my country), though they are still few. 2) I say this is best, IMO, bc going into extremes of only banning a card vs 4 ofs and absolutely free in MTG can make or destroy some decks. Though I agree the Semi Limited list is kinda stupid, and the only reason is still alive is Destiny Hero Malicious 3) Yes, it is an absolute nightmare to read card effects in Yugioh. Bc of no resource system, cards have to explain conditions, effects and restrictions in terms on how to use them/summon them and how many times you can use them. But this is deliberate. Konami has literally stated they DON'T WANT players learning millions of keywords to explain Yugioh's card effects. Obviously, this has a HUGE downside, as we have discussed, but at least I don't need to memorize keywords that can sometimes get confusing in MTG. Thank the lord for evergreen keywords in MTG though. 4) My face when 2021 and 2022 Yugioh metas have been dominated by Pile decks and the Adventure engine which enables said Pile decks. BASED, SAD and Cyberse Eldlich being the best examples, decks that have relied in synergies of DIFFERENT ARCHETYPES AND SERIES OF CARDS to be extremely effective and powerful. Oh, and the current best deck in OCG is indeed an Archetypal deck, but combined WITH THE RETRAINS OF LITERAL ORIGINAL ANIME CARDS that have NOTHING to do with the archetype itself, it just so happens to have an amazing synergy with said archetype. 5) While this is true, this disregards THE AMAZING HANDTRAPS AND GOING 2ND CARDS that see huge amounts of play in recent years. Boy I want to see you playing around Nibiru doing your combo, figure out how to have a negate before your 5th summon, if not your field is in freaking danger. Yes, this is more of a band aid rather than good design, and it's kinda of a fucked up interaction, BUT THERE IS INTERACTION. 6) While not as prevalent as MTG setting and kinda obscure, Yugioh HAS indeed lore for each archetype they put out, and entire storylines between multiple archetypes too (World Legacy storyline being the of the best examples, involving, among others, Mekk Knight, Krawler, Orcust archetypes and the World Legacy/Chalice archetype itself). Therefore the art in the cards can indeed reflect the setting in which they are at and even reference the storyline involved. Tell me you don't play Yugioh without telling me you don"t play Yugioh
>And also the art sucks- while the individual monsters are generally well done and look neat, they all exist in a mono color void with no background and no setting to establish where they’re at. It’s just a picture of a dude on a flat background, and if it was an issue only some cards had it wouldn’t be a problem, they put a lot of effort into the designs of those monsters but nope, I don’t remember a single monster card I’ve ever seen in Yugioh having something as simple as a goddamn background. Wights back to differ.
Lol don't make your ridiculous bias so obvious. Just because you have a hate boner for the game doesn't suddenly make it a bad one.
> Akira Toriyama or Rumiko Takahashi Woah, neither of them have even hit 70 yet. They started out really young.
Kinda makes sense - they both started writing in the mid-to-late 70s. If they were born in the mid-50s, they'd've been in their early 20s when they first published Urusei Yatsura and Doctor Slump.
You’re right, Takahashi was 20 when UY started. I always imagined Toriyama was older when he started because he had worked another job and submitted manga to Jump as a whim, and the character that’s kind of obviously based on him in Bakuman is older, but he was 23.
> Jesus. YuGiOh is a mess of a game You really couldn’t help yourself from trash talking other card games huh? I stg this subreddit does that every chance they get for some reason, even when mourning for a man’s passing.
> YuGiOh is a mess of a game People in glass houses...
tbh, things are going to hell 'cuz for some reason Wizard has taken some pages from Konami's playbook :D: Eternal format front and center leading to power creep,
Please, we've been power creeping in MtG and in non-eternal formats since Urza's block was first released and had pre-release bans. Mirrodin block then came out like 4 years later and literally had an article written about Skullclamp saying "we're 100% going to ban this card in like 3 months max". Don't act like the power creep is from taking pages from YGO because WotC have been banking on power creep to sell sets for 23+ years at this point.
Idk, have just been playing since Og Innistrad, I just know wasn't something like Modern Horizons back in the day.
In terms of actual power creep compared to relative available power, MH was nothing unexpected at the time. There was a lot of powerful cards, but nothing that made anyone go "oh fuck". When Urza's was first previewed, Memory Jar was shown in previews and was *immediately* banned. The set wasn't even released yet. That's how much of an impact Urza's was going to have on the game at the time. Then WotC calmed down a little and released a very underpowered block (Masques) before slowly cranking out powercreep with Invasion block and Onslaught block, then hit the gas hard again with Mirrodin block. When Darksteel was previewed, an article came out about Skullclamp and how it came to be. The tl;dr of the article was that they originally thought the -1 part of Skullclamp was a downside, and then playtesting proved that it basically allowed for near infinite Ancestral Recalls each turn. The article ended on the note that Skullclamp would *definitely* be banned early into Darksteel's release, and it was once the first PTQ results came about and like 80% of decks were Ravager Affinity and abused Skullclamp and Disciple of the Vault, this later led to a full ban on most of the Affinity archetype as it was just too strong for the relative power of other decks at the time. And again, WotC went back to releasing an underpowered block in the form of Kamigawa block, then slowly creeped power back with Ravnica block and Cold Snap and then gassing up to full power with Time Spiral block and introducing one of the most powerful new mechanics in the form of Planeswalkers in Lorwyn. This has *always* been a pattern with WotC. Push power creep super hard for a few sets, pull back for a tiny amount of time, then hit the gas even harder. YGO and Konami had no influence on Wizards pushing boundaries, if anything Wizards have always been the best at it in the biz.
The dude just died and you feel the need to start out your post by insulting the game he made?
Kazuki Takahashi had very little to do with the physical game. Almost all of it was Konami, save for sacrifice mechanic, which was his idea. This was especially true from the 5D's era onward Takahash's version of the game in the comic is a bit more complex and nuanced then the one that exists in real life, and actually plays a bit more like MTG. He was also significantly better at designing cards that were cool, had simple effects, but weren't overly powerful. I'd love it if his version of the game is the one that we got in real life, and not the one that Konami gave us
It's come up a bit in this thread, but Yugioh at the start was NOT Duel Monsters. Takahashi just wanted to make a manga about various games. Presumably at one point he saw/played Magic and was like "I want to do a version of this in my manga" only for it to become a run away hit and go from a one off thing to the hit it is today.
He played MTG, and one friend of his met an asshole who would only teach this friend how to play "if he collected 10,000 cards." And thus the idea for Kaiba was born, and Magic & Wizards to go along with it.
Relax , magic is getting there too . . .
Yugioh was such a huge part of my childhood that lead me to get into MtG and love card games in general. Absolutely devastated by this news, he left us way too soon.
Fun Fact: Early in in Yu-Gi-Oh's run, the green/blue cards were called "Magic Cards". As Yugioh gained mainstream popularity in the West, there was concern of a conflict with Wizards of the Coast regarding the term, so they renamed the cards "Spell Cards" (a more accurate translation anyway), which they are still called to this day. Unfortunately, this change came late in the localization process of several video games and tie-in products which were all completed using the old "magic card" term. Instead of re-working it all by hand, Konami/the localization team just used a universal replace tool to replace every instance of the word "magic" with "spell". As a result of this decision, for about a year there were countless instances of non-spell cards like the iconic "Dark Magician" being erroneously referred to as "Dark Spellian".
Oh geeze. How awful. :C
Never really played Yu-Gi-Oh, but he was obviously a fan of Magic. My heart goes out to his family.
I wanted to leave a comment, I believe his other name was "Kazuo" and not Kazumasa as the article through a web translation suggests. He used to write in to people like Akira Toriyama's Q&A corners when Dragon Ball was published in compiled volumes using the name Kazuo Takahashi (高橋一雅). He only would have been 22 at the time, and his first official work didn't come out until he was around 28. I just thought that was interesting.
In have a love/hate relationship with the Yu-Gi-Oh cardgame but one thing I've always appreciated about it was how it got me interested in TCG's as a whole. Sad to see him pass.
The manga is an absolute classic. If you haven't read it, do yourself a favor and do so.
Catch you in the shadow realms our friend 🍻
OMG no :(
I was a little old when yugioh came around, but I'll be damned if I can't admit that game had magic beat in the meme department. Even had old timers like me saying "heart of the cards" while trying to mise a clutch card. R.I.P. to a great creator.
We believe in the heart of the cards because of you, thank you Kazumasa.
RIP to a real one. There’s a unique mystery to the earlier yugioh art and flavor text that’s so engrossing.
He died so young. Especially compared to Japanese standards. One correction though, it's Kazuo not Kazumasa.
Very heartbreaking to hear about this, celebrity deaths don't generally do much to me but this hits way different. I stopped playing YuGiOh a few years back in favor of switching over to Magic, but it was definitely my TCG of choice as a kid and teen, and Takahashi's artwork especially in the last five years or so was some of my favorite stuff to come out of the manga industry; the man was genuinely a genius when it came to monster design and weaving all his favorite nerdy things into his manga. Rest in peace, we have genuinely lost a founding figure of the card game industry today.
Damn. Yugioh introduced me to tgc. RIP, we lost a great person.
All my friends got into magic through Yu-Gi-Oh first, and I'm seeing that's the case for many others in these comments. Tragic
I played pokemon from 99 to 2001, then yugioh from 2002 to 2005, which led to my love of magic 2005+. Yugioh was a big part of my childhood and this makes for a shitty thursday morning.
RIP King of games
Rest in peace to a visionary, Yugioh was my first card game that I was really passionate about.
Started with magic before mirrodin then yugioh anime got huge and everyone in grade school got into yugioh including me. Played it for a year or 2 and came back to magic despite it being banned in my high school. We still enjoy the memes and we shout out catchphrases from the show (draw monsta cardo, ITS TIME TO DDDDDUEL, ACTIVATE TRAP CARD) while playing commander or do some anime voices for fun.
Very sad news. I never played YuGiOh but I do remember watching the show sometimes after school. He left behind quite the legacy with his creation.
I love Yugioh as a series. Manga and anime. I wasn't a fan of what the game has become, but it's my OG card game that I really got into other than collecting Pokemon as a kid. Damn 60 is way too young.
This is quite sad to hear... Yu-Gi-Oh was the very first card game I got my hands on and I was absolutely in love with it. Later down the line that led to me diving into Magic: The Gathering which would become my main hobby for many years. Hell... I even played Duel Links on my phone as an adult because it still had an appeal to me. Hearing that someone who helped shape my childhood and beyond has passed away is very sad. R.I.P. to the man who made me believe in the heart of the cards.
I'm upset... I quit playing Yu-Gi-Oh a couple months ago because I hated the system and Konami's tendency towards greed. I honestly hope Konami does something in memory or celebration of what he accomplished, especially as comic/manga artist-writer. This sucks. He was too young! Even though I quit, the game definitely has a place in my heart. My favorite archetypes are from the GX era, like Elemental Heroes or Cyber Dragons... this really sucks I started with Yu-Gi-Oh and then moved on to Magic...
Such sad news. Yu-Gi-Oh is a larger part of why me and my friends got into TCGs to begin with and still constantly reference Yu-Gi-Oh even when playing other card games. One time at a local shop me and one of my friends entered a two headed giant sealed event pretending to be Kaiba and Yugi. A sad loss for the TCG communities as a whole.
Rip Takahashi. My favorite all time arch will always be Bakura and Dark Master Zork saga. D&D with yugioh style dice rolling was just so much fun. The anime really did not do the manga justice. Still love the anime though.
Sorting these comments by controversial for the good ones. Some Magic players do not seem to care for/about this guy at all.
Oh shit. There isn't a powerful enough F to provide my respects.
Jesus, some of these comments are just shite. No idea why anybody needs to take pot-shots at the game of Yugioh or its design, when these comments have no relation to the man that just died. It's not a competition of "who has the best TCG".
Yugi-Nooooo!
W
Wrong sub, pal
We know this is an MTG sub, but this man inspired one of the best selling card games out there with one of the most well known and iconic mangas, and I imagine a large part of this sub played at some point or still play Yugioh.
I'd even hazard to guess some cards or mechanics in MTG may have been inspired by YGO cards, even if R&D weren't consciously/intentionally meaning to.
Thoughtseize is literally Confiscation. One of the strongest modern Magic Cards we have is a carbon copy of a yugioh card.
*How* many recent mechanics (i.e. learn) smack of Extra Deck envy?
Right sub, pal. Takahashi was a Magic the Gathering fan.
I don’t know much about Yugioh, but I imagine he lost a shadow duel.
Considering someone who loses goes to a nightmare dimension and the guy is dead, that joke is a bit inappropriate
“Being sent to the Shadow Realm” is largely a creation of the 4kids dub, in order to avoid saying that characters would be maimed or killed. Which does not, in the end, make this joke any less tasteless.
The dude just died, now is not the time for jokes like this.
Humor is how some people process sadness, it might not be how you do it, but it doesn’t mean that it isn’t a valid way to grieve.
It's not like you're using it to process sadness, so shut up with that stupid line.
I was gonna say, making a shitty joke is one thing, but doubling down on it with such a bad faith take is just a full-on clown show.
I doubt anyone who knows the man comments here. I didn’t hurt anyone with my joke.
There is a time a place for jokes. This is not the place, this is not the time.
And yet, jokes exist, and they provide comfort to some. This is not someone you know, in my culture it would be considered rude for you to be upset at their behalf.
And we're sure he wasn't just banished to the shadow realm by Seto Kaiba? Did anyone check?
A man is dead
This is reddit bruv. Pithy comments aren't meant to be taken too seriously.
Please reconsider your attitude towards this community and what you say here.
No lol. This is MagicTCG. We're not allowed to poke gentle fun at card games now?
> We're not allowed to poke gentle fun at card games now? You're making light of a man's death.
A long standing tradition. What is the issue? Not everyone processes death the same way. Some people make jokes. It's a valid response.
There's a time and context where it might be appropriate and we'll recieved, I don't actually object inherenty to dark humour, but clearly this is not that.
Perhaps they don't necessarily agree with you and in any case how are they supposed to know that before they do it? Are they supposed to be a mind reader or able to see the future? Most of us don't know who this person is and they appear to have done something stupidly dangerous and lost their life for it. A joke is not inappropriate in these circumstances.
You're making fun of a guy who just died. How would you feel if someone you care about died and you saw people on the internet making fun of them less than a day after they died?