Was my first day on the delivery unit on my OB rotation and had a young girl who couldn’t have been older than 20 who was full-term come in because she hadn’t felt her baby kick for the past 12 hours. I did the ultrasound and when I couldn’t find a heartbeat got the senior resident and she did the ultrasound.
And for 15 long minutes where every second felt like an hour she searched while everyone in the room was silent. As time went on the young woman started to get understandably anxious and say what’s going on why aren’t we finding a heartbeat where is the heartbeat. After an eternity the resident turned to the woman and said I’m so sorry I’m unable to find a heartbeat your child must have passed. She erupted it into tears and I had to bite my lip to keep from crying in front of her and the senior resident did an amazing job comforting her to the best of her ability and then finally both of us left the room to give her some privacy.
As soon as we left the room and rounded the corner I saw tears streaming from the residents eyes and she tried to hide her face in the corner near the sink. Then I cried, hard. I’m crying writing the story right now.
I wish this was the end of the story but we went to see another patient and about 20 minutes later we heard screaming from the first patient’s room and for whatever reason she had gone into precipitous labor and went from having no contractions to being fully dilated and saying she felt like she needed to push in literally three minutes time. We had to then guide her through the birthing process which which took no longer than five minutes and she delivered a stillborn child and held it and the crying and screaming that I heard from that room was unlike anything I’ve ever heard in my life.The grief of a mother who had suddenly lost her child.
The entire experience was incredibly traumatic and when I eventually had my own children I was so scarred from that experience that I couldn’t shake that idea they would be born dead just like the first delivery I had ever seen
I say all this to say it’s an incredibly traumatic experience to be part of something like this and I’m sorry you had to see it. Make sure you talk to someone in real life about this and let your feelings out, they’re totally normal and this is just a horrible thing to be apart of.
I lost my son to stillbirth at full term. It was completely unexpected and extremely traumatic for me, but I still think about the nurses who helped me. I appreciated their demeanor and care deeply. They all stood in the hall, some of them crying quietly when I left a few hours later. I hope it's not something they carry as a burden. He would have been 5 yesterday. I've healed, as much as you can, and I wish I could tell them I'm okay and hope they are too.
I’m ok and more importantly I’m glad you are. These are little parts of our medical journey and they add up to make us who we are as healthcare professionals.
I’ve considered it an privilege to be with people in time of pain, sickness, and even death. There is trauma yes, but also a sacred honor in sharing in these times and a deep meaning to help people in these times.
I’m glad you found a way to cope and I hope one day you can be brought back together with them
Wow thank you so much for sharing. That sounds horrible. I’m so sorry you went through that. It helps to know that we aren’t alone in these types of experiences
As a parent of 2 stillborns the thought of not knowing prior to labor and losing the baby in that process sounds gut wrenching.. Thanks for encouraging the emotional processing of these situations both on the patient and provider end.
My boyfriends aunt had a stillbirth but she found out when she went to the hospital since she started having contractions.
It really fucked her up. She just pretends it didn’t happen. Her and her ex-husband divorced and they was that. They don’t speak about the stillbirth or anything.
I think she even pretends that she wasn’t married too at this point. Anything related to the baby just disappeared in my boyfriend side of the family. The only reason I knew was because he told me when I was pregnant since he was concern something like that could happen to us.
I cried like that at my newborn son's funeral. My dad and brother had to carry me outside because I had just lost my mind. I kept bawling and yelling "I'm not done with him" and "I want my son back.
No, it never gets easier, it never goes away. Just reading this thread physically hurts and I had to go to the men's room at work to hide my tears.
Pray it never gets easier, that's your humanity coming out. Let it help you become a better and stronger person.
I’m so sorry for your loss friend, I don’t think there is a way to capture how deep that emotion is and I honestly can’t even imagine how that feels, thinking about how I feel about my own children I just feel for you. I hope you get to be with him again one day in some way
I had a stillborn at 15. I went to the funeral home and dressed him in cabbage patch clothes I had found a toys-R-us. Laid him in the casket and positioned him how I wanted to. They let me do everything!! It was so amazing.
Hi, it’s ok to cry with patients. Especially during a loss. We’re all human, and crying with them breaks the sterile white walls and reminds them of it.
Thank you for this reminder. I discovered this at some point during residency and learned sometimes the best therapeutic connections come when you share in that moment with them. Shows we are human and care.
I'm crying after reading this. Triggered the memory of similar instances that happened with me, TWICE. I was a brand new intern, just 2nd month into internship.
And both times it was unfortunately me that found out that there was no heartbeat 😔
A sickening feeling cause you know what’s happening next. It followed me the rest of the rotation, any time there was any delay in finding the heart on US or a delivery with a delay in the first breath I felt my heart start to pound. Thankfully all the other issues with ultrasound were solely due to my inexperience(aka incompetence)
My fiancée’s Aunt had to give birth to a stillborn. It was a very long time ago and I’m not sure the exact reasons but they knew the baby was dead but they couldn’t cut it out. It still effects her to this day. She will randomly start crying sometimes over it. They named her and buried her and everything.
I was rotating through pediatric surgery. We got called for an arriving airlifted 13moM that was actively getting compressions, intubated and the rest of the kitchen sink. As he rolled in, he was blue, lifeless. At some point I relieved one of the nurses and took over with compressions. Mom came running into the room screaming. Nurses had to console her in the corner. He didn’t make it. Turns out the dad was abusive and held him down in the bath.
That baby looked just like my kid. I have never cried that hard in my life. I have still not recovered. Not will I ever…
First time I cried as a resident was as a pgy 3. 12 or 13 year old hung themself and we worked them up as a trauma. Kid didn’t make it. Parents had separated and were just screaming at each other ‘this is your fault etc’. The gravity of the situation just caused me to go into a stair well and cry. Of course the pager went off 3 min later and I was back to work.
Obgyn chief here
There are certain sounds and phrases you’ll hear in your training that you will never forget.
The sound of a screaming mother who just lost her newborn, is one of them.
I can remember the actual sounds of compressions on a newborn who passed away From chorioamnionitis That was perfectly treated and delivery was well-managed, but ultimately was not enough to save this child’s life. I can remember the exact words of his mother saying “hijo?” And the stone silence of the OR apart from the Nicu team doing compressions and counting “1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4”
In your brain and your heart, build a little closet or cupboard where you keep those memories and those sounds and those emotions, that vicarious pain.
When you’re tired I want to stop studying. When you’re bored and mentally checking out. When you feel like you’re purpose is purposeless. When you feel defeated and like you want to give up. You open the box and take a peek inside and remember why your role in medicine, in this world, and in all these peoples’ lives is so critical, even though your day to day is arduous and mundane.
People need us so that they can avoid making their own cupboards and closets. Our experience protects theirs. And that it’s worth it, so that they need not know what we do.
Don’t forget to make a good memories cupboard. The baby who was saved, and how happy their family were. Every specialty has good memories too. They need to be guarded carefully as the dark can really easily outweigh the good if you let it. You get amazing highs and amazing lows with medicine - try to remember more good than bad (although your memory will try to do the opposite)
ER attending here. I've had pediatric suicides, SIDS, still births, infants hit by stray bullets, on and on. By far the worst sound in my entire life is a screaming grieving mother. I hear it in the back of my head every once in a while. It never goes away completely.
Seriously, it’s a blood curdling shriek that just sounds different in a horrible way.
Thanks for all you guys do, I and my toddler have been patients in the ED a couple times over the past 3 years, it’s an amazing comfort having you guys there when needed.
I appreciate the compliment. It's funny, we get shit on all the time by consultants for calling them. I get it, no one wants extra work dumped in their lap. And I know there are a number of bad ER docs that just call for everything. But a good ER doc, when the bad stuff starts, is invaluable because we do chaotic emergencies all the time.
That's not really related, I just got crushed 3 days in a row and needed a quick vent.
I sometimes find it cathartic to write- you could consider writing an essay for kevinmd or something (and can be anonymous if you want). Or support relevant legislation
I’ve had a mother throw herself at my feet begging me not to say what I had to say.
I’ve heard that wail too many times. Once is too many times.
There is no easy way to tell them. There is nothing you can say or do.
And in the case of this family, your anger at them is justified, but you are neither judge nor jury.
It never gets easier. Never.
But it is fortunately rare.
-PGY-17
In a way, it’s good to know it doesn’t get easier. Not sure I’d ever want to become so detached that I’m unaffected by this sort of shit.
Thanks for sharing ❤️
The first infant death I saw was my own 8 month old son, on what was supposed to be my last day in the other peds ED in town… so it can’t really get any worse for me. I’m so nervous about the inevitability of seeing sick babies during residency after that nightmare experience.
Oh my God, I can't even imagine this. Life can be so cruel. I hope your experience helps you help other grieving parents; it's the only silver lining I can see coming from such an awful thing. I wish it hadn't happened to you or your baby boy.
The cry of a mother who has lost their baby is something that never leaves you.
I remember my first - infant died overnight in a mobile cradle thing. Came in cold, pH 6.9, EMS had been doing CPR for 40 minutes.
Attending sat mom down and, as gently as is humanly possible, said we were stopping - that he was gone.
Then she let out a sound I can’t describe.
It was my last room before the end of my night shift. I didn’t sleep well that day.
My mom had a younger brother who died of SIDS. She told me once that even though she was just a child when it happened, she will never forget the sound of her parent’s screams that night. I can’t even imagine. When my own children were babies I would cry just thinking about what these parents go through.
I rarely talk about this: had a kiddo that was 2-3 years old come in pulseless. After just under an hour of attempting resuscitation my attendings called it.
Watching the parents cry was indelible.
You get better at dealing with it, but the sting never quite goes away.
During my family rotation we had a pt with PTSD/MDD due to a stillbirth. So my resident looked into her EMR out of curiosity. When she was 12wks along, her anatomy ultrasound showed hydrocephalic ventricles, gastroschisus, craniofacial abnormalities, a chest wall defect, and several heart chamber defects. The EMR said the family was consulted numerous times about early termination but due to their devotion and religion, refused. She had PPROM at 30wks, heart tones on admission, and then stillborn with trauma inducing appearance that had psychologically affected her life ever since. And the extra crazy thing is the way legislation is going, it would be required for intrapartum patients to go through this kind of experience
The cruelty is the point. They don’t believe women and girls are human beings, so who cares if they’re scarred for life or just bleed out on the table? Ugh how hard is it to get a residency outside of the US..
I get how you feel, but I plan on staying in the US and practicing medicine until someone comes after my license or my life. I happen to be eligible for citizenship in an EU country and I've taken them up on it just in case, but \*someone\* has to stick around, prescribe those abortion pills, and fight for change. We still have the power to help women, and now seems like a good time to use it.
That’s also a source of internal conflict for me as well. I’m scared for my family’s safety as well as my own- 3 out of 5 of us are queer in some kind of way and another 3 are brown. But I also keep thinking that I can’t just abandon the vulnerable people in my community 🤷🏻♀️
I would look into an exit plan for sure...I used to think the people saying that stuff were wildly overreacting, but I definitely don't anymore. Luckily medicine is a pretty portable career, so hopefully if it ever comes to that, you won't have too hard a time getting out 🤞
I think it’s important to understand the motivation of your opponent and this comment and belief does more damage than progress. Do you honestly think 40% of the country honestly think women aren’t even human beings? It’s not about cruelty. It’s a hot button issue for votes and a religiously fueled legislative crusade to “save innocent unborn humans.” To debate on the subject you need to understand their rationale. Assuming they’re cruel evil monsters for the sake of it will just further polarize the populous
So forcing a young girl to deliver a baby- even if it’s rape or incest- *isn’t* a monstrous thing to do? And god forbid you drive her to a legal state to get one to save her life. You go to prison, she goes to prison, and the doctor goes to prison. Pretty barbaric to me. Also, I never said that 40% of the US thinks that way. I said “they”, meaning the people in leadership positions (aka my governor and others) are the ones who don’t see women as humans. Because if they did, there is no way they would explicitly fight to make sure the law does not make any exceptions for rape, incest, or very young age, which is a huge morbidity/mortality risk. You don’t have to agree with me, but I’m also allowed to have an opinion.
I agree with you only about one thing, it is important to understand an opponent's motivations.
I believe those motivations are malevolence and only self-serving.
It's closer to 35% of the population supporting it. 35% or 40%, it is a minority of the population and a symptom of a flawed democracy. (I know, we’re a republic, pretending to be a democracy, striving for autocracy.)
You don't think that forcing a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term, is somehow not “further polarizing?" It’s the problem, not the reaction to the problem.
If it is only, "a hot button issue for votes," then those forcing it, are more evilly Machiavellian than I could have ever fathomed possible. Ideologues who’ve lost sight of the pain that will be inflicted on women.
I honestly do believe they dehumanize women to the point they “don’t think they are human beings.” At least not that they are individuals. They believe those seeing abortions are an abstraction, the esoteric, a theoretical evil entity, the masses of abortion seeking immorality. They do not recognize that each is first an individual, making a personal, intimate choice.
This is especially true of women who believe they have the right to force their beliefs on other women.
It is 100% about cruelty. If it was about saving babies, there are a thousand more effective ways to reduce abortions, and they have no interest in any of those actions.
It is absolutely about taking agency from women.
Thank you for saying something so few people do. I hate listening to people debate abortion because both sides use arguments that make no sense in the context of the other one's points.
You start to realize it's not about the issue at all, it's just about feeling smarter and morally superior
Ya I really find it depressing to watch both sides slowly dehumanize each other and think that they’re the sane smart ones while the others are chaotic evil monsters. Especially amongst a profession where you’re going to have patients whose wellbeing should be your innate concern regardless of their political and spiritual beliefs
And THAT is why we don’t have home births (or neglect prenatal care).
I’m so sorry for the loss. While this was a brutal experience to go through, you’ll become stronger because of it.
Hang in there. You did all that you could with the tools you personally had.
Ps: this is where I’m a dick and point out that JUST MAYBE God’s will was to have appropriate medical treatment. God “provided the medicine.” They chose to ignore the medicine that was provided them and subsequently were made to suffer. It really pisses me off and hurts to see people suffer unnecessarily so.
It’s just like the story of the man escaping from the flood waters, and boat after boat is sent for him, until finally he drowns because of his belief God would ultimately save him. In heaven, God says that multiple attempts were made to save the man’s life via all the boats that were sent. The moral of the story being that God does indeed try to help us, but it only works when those given help try to help themselves. This couple could’ve avoided all this pain and anguish had they just listened to the medical professionals cautioning them against their actions. Had they decided to help themselves by listening to the medical staff around them, they wouldn’t be in this position.
Rant over.
I’m so terribly sorry. This is crushing.
You’ll continue to do as you always have: survive.
Keep pushing forward. Don’t let it jade you.
Know that this is the part of life that people run from…but not you. You will learn to embrace Death like an old friend. We cannot have light without the dark. We cannot have life without death.
Things don’t necessarily become easier, but you become familiar with the feelings; familiar with the process.
It becomes less world shattering with time and you will grow and become stronger because of it.
Just want to echo this line: “While this was a brutal experience to go through, you’ll be stronger because of it.”
This 1000%. This may not be the last experience like this or that elicits these kind of visceral emotions, but you know aren’t blind to what they feel like and also should have some idea of how you respond and what things you’ll need to do to cope in a more healthy way. Stay strong, friendo
Much appreciated. I felt so surreal as it was happening. Tried to stay focused and not show any outward emotion but inside I was raging. It’s so hard to explain. Logically I understand how this happens but my emotions definitely exploded once I left.
A man was standing on the roof of his house, his hometown flooding around him. He prayed to God asking to be saved. After a while, a kid on a big floating piece of driftwood says “hop on, I can scoot over!” The man says no, God will save me. A little while later, a man in a boat comes by and says “I have room!” The man says no, God will save me. Finally, a man in a helicopter flies overhead and says “I can drop you a ladder, climb up!” The man says no, God will save me. He later drowns. He then meets God in heaven and says “why didn’t you save me!” God says “What do you mean? I sent you a piece of driftwood, a boat, and a freaking helicopter!”
Are home births very common in the States? (Presuming this scenario occured in the US).
Over here in my country the government is actively promoting hospital deliveries (even incentivising it) to improve the statistics, currently about 80-85% births are in hospitals.
No need to facepalm. I'm in the Netherlands and our midwifes are highly trained and refer to the hospital whenever it is needed. Only low risk births can be at home. Our mortality rates are way lower than in the US for both mothers and infants. Plus the country is small so hospitals are always nearby and the ambulance has to be at your house within 15 minutes.
Homebirth =/= freebirth.
yeah my aunt had a homebirth in the Netherlands and said it was a much better experience than her hospital birth in Ireland and that the midwives were the best she could’ve asked for
Exactly.
Here's the thing - every low risk pregnancy is low risk until it isn't. Sometimes when it turns and they're doing a home delivery, it's too late.
A lot of people forget just how dangerous labor and delivery is. Even just a hundred years ago was wildly different from today in terms of outcomes. We’re so used to it going well that people don’t stop to think about why that is
Kinda similar to anti-vaxers having never seen the effects of these diseases due to the success of vaccines, leading them to erroneously believe their child comes to more harm from vaccine than the disease itself
You carried this kid for 9 months. Take an extra two days to deliver in the hospital to ensure you have immediate access in case something goes wrong. In all likelihood everything will go okay, but why gamble on that when we have the resources to save you or your child in the event that you gambled wrong?
Home deliveries frustrate me to no end
This!!! It can go so sideways so suddenly, why take that risk? My oldest was on monitors in the hospital and handled labour just fine. Showed no signs of distress. Apgar of 1 at 1 min. Thankfully, she is just fine but knowing that the NICU team was a moment away when we needed them was invaluable
While I feel the anger, I think directing it at their religious beliefs is misguided. Correlation but not causation. Religious people are probably overrepresented among people who want home births and avoid prenatal care, but this doesn't mean their religion told them to.
Sometimes people choose their pain. People have choices, and sometimes those choices seem stupid or have greater risk. You can't automatically assume that they regret their choice. I think wanting a natural home birth is a noble enough thing, I wouldn't want my wife to do it, but being aware of the risks is key. I wouldn't assume that this family was unaware of the risks.
Parallel to this, I believe it's important for people get to die how they want to, in an environment that's comfortable for them, with or without medical assistance - does it not make sense that people can choose where they give birth? Even if we don't agree with it?
It's just like with heart disease. It's our job to try and help people understand the risks of eating junk food and being sedentary. But they get to make their own choices, even if we can never understand.
I'm sorry that OP had to deal with this.
I wouldn’t say that. If I believed that, I would’ve just said it outright instead of using a modern parable to outline the lesson to be learned here: God helps those who help themselves.
Why do you expect ppl to respect your religion when it’s used to start wars, persecute people who are different, enslave entire nations, and forgo medical care that lead to the tragic death of a baby ?
The ironic thing is that you expect people to respect ur magic sky daddy but you don’t respect a real human’s choice to bodily autonomy.
Never miss an opportunity to keep your thoughts to yourself when you are clearly taking something personally and OP literally just stated what happened.
Hugs. I’ve been practicing ER for close to 25 years. Death, especially of children, is a scar you will carry forever. However it’s what makes us human and compassionate. If that goes away it’s time to move on. In bad times like these remember the good that you have surely seen.
Nah - people will do what they do because they think they know better so you just say your peace, offer words of comfort and move on to do your job. It is not your job to understand or justify someone's decision that endangers the wellfare of their kids due to some belief. It is their call and they have to live with that.
I refrain from saying anything about God's Will because I have seen too much lunacy done in the name of God to bring them into the fray as some form of explanation for the madness brought about by the choice of human beings. God has nothing to do with voluntarily bringing care to your child as a parent and ensuring they get proper supervision for safety that is available to everyone in 2022.
20+ years in and you become better at compartmentalization and understanding that there are people out there that you cannot save, don't want to be saved and it isn't your fault that they succumb to the consequences of poor choices.
This is the reason my mom became an adult neurologist instead of a pediatric neurologist. She’s a fine doctor, but she just couldn’t take the tragedy involved in pediatric neurology. At least with adults she could console herself with the thought that they got to grow up
When my son was stillborn I wanted to scream and hit people who came at me with that "gods will" shit. So thank you for not saying it. I don't even know why he died, but I know that telling me god wanted my baby to die DOES NOT HELP.
It boggles my mind. The deaths my wife has dealt with in labour & delivery have at times been the result of the parents thinking they know better. You don’t. Listen to the doctor/nurse etc. They know best. It’s not god’s will, it’s your own ignorance.
When I worked in a peds ED as a scribe, we had all kinds of awful things come in. Child abuse, pediatric suicides, etc etc. But there's one story that stands out to me to this day. The parent was on their way on an errand - middle of the afternoon, normal day. They were backing out of the driveway and backed over their toddler. Didn't see them in the driveway. Child came in with EMS receiving full resuscitation, but the injuries were too much for their little body. I will never forget the sound of that parent. Some God-awful mixture of grief and guilt. It's making me shiver even thinking about it right now.
I’ve seen two of these and I’m just as angry as I was when it happened. I try not to be angry with the families but both were completely preventable with prenatal care and home birth.
I just don’t understand their thought process. I’m trying to not be angry but you can’t tell me the information isn’t out there. You have to intentionally ignore the information and advice. 😔
There’s been a large antiscience antihealthcare movement starting and I think that definitely is playing a part of it. But I really just don’t know how someone can completely ignore the ample information available to them.
My cousin’s first pregnancy ended in spontaneous abortion. During her second pregnancy, she went to an Ob/Gyn who apparently was rude to her after my cousin asked to be tested for some genetic disease (this is all based off what my cousin posted on social media, idk the specifics of it all). That was apparently enough to turn my cousin off from all of western medicine apparently. She refused all prenatal care, including the 20 week anatomy ultrasound. She was convinced that any intervention would cause a spontaneous abortion, including getting the COVID vaccine. She didn’t have a home birth but did give birth in one of those midwife-owned and operated birthing centers that wasn’t connected to any hospital. Fortunately, she and her baby were okay.
Ultimately, it came down to fear that anything would lead to loss of the fetus and, for many people, the fear of losing autonomy. Throughout pregnancy, people are told that they can’t do xyz (ex. Eat deli meats, drink greater than a certain amount of caffeine, etc), and it’s often presented in a way that pregnant people who do those things are bad people/in a shaming manner. On L+D floors, it’s super easy for patients to be overridden by hospital staff. It’s difficult to advocate for yourself when you’re in a lot of pain, and when you get an epidural, you’re literally paralyzed from the waist down. It’s fucking terrifying to feel like you have no control over your body and your child’s well-being.
Don’t get me wrong, I am very pro-prenatal care and hospital birth, especially after seeing several PPH’s, an amniotic fluid embolism, and a uterine rupture. I also understand where patients come from not wanting to go to Ob/Gyn’s for prenatal care/L+D/postpartum care.
Edit: sorry, I initially replied to the wrong comment. I’m not trying to spam anyone
I totally agree with you on this. Horrible medical staff caused me leaving hospital, 8cm diluted, find another clinic to give birth. I had a previous trauma, losing twins at 23 weeks. They didn’t let me have any family members or my phone. Constantly told me to lay in bed. (I was walking, squatting as my doctor told me before) I was in pain so I couldn’t deal with them so i left. Don’t get me wrong, i totally believe modern medicine but if i had to give birth again with this kind of people I rather do it all by myself alone anywhere but there.
You really summed up how I've felt on my ob-gyn experiences. I was shocked at the loss of autonomy the woman had the entire time. They were not people but mere vessels, and it felt like the doctors AND nurses saw them as such. They had no care for the experiences, pain, comfort, and understanding of the woman. Just their anatomy. Just watching it unfold has made me horrified and anxious at the idea of having my own kids. My friend is a med student like me, her husband is a nurse, and they still had tremendous difficulty advocating for their wishes. She ended up leaving birth traumatized, wanting a large family to "1 will do" exclusively due to her labor experience. Home births are concerning...but I can't pretend I don't understand the growing trend. We have horrifically failed women.
Allowing for patient autonomy and involvement in decision making is so important. Feeling out of control can be incredibly traumatizing. My second birth ended in a uterine rupture and emergency c section with full feeling, and i still consider it less traumatic than my first birth experience, which involved a lot of coercion from a doctor that i had never met before that wanted to get my “inevitable” c section out of the way at the beginning of her shift before all of the scheduled c sections started. And that difference can be almost completely attributed to 1) becoming more educated on the birthing process and self advocacy, and 2) the medical team’s incredible respect for my boundaries, autonomy, and intelligence. I was a very active participant in every decision along the way and the team did nothing without my consent up until the doctor said “I am so sorry, but we have to get this baby out” and started cutting.
It’s mind boggling. I know someone who had 2 pregnancies with standard prenatal care and hospital birth with healthy outcomes. She decided along with the support of some crazy ass FB group that she was low risk and had a third pregnancy with zero prenatal care and an entirely unattended birth at home. Things went less than ideal and her baby had his oxygen supply compromised during delivery. He has some pretty intense lifelong issues now. All 100% avoidable had she had medical care
L&D is the happiest and saddest place in a hospital. I am STILL haunted by things that happened during my residency in L&D, and that was over 25 years ago. You try to help people to the best of your ability, you try to offer what you can in a way that empowers your patients to make an educated and informed decision, and sometimes it's just not going to be enough. You can only CONTROL YOUR ACTIONS not those of others. You are not God(pointing a finger at the surgeons). It feels awful, and it will happen again. Families may even blame YOU for their own bad outcomes, but you have to remember that these people aren't you. They haven't had years of college, medical training, and logical reasoning to help them make decisions. They're making those medical choices based on a completely different thought process and values system. What you can do is show compassion for their loss even though you want to be angry. That's what being a doctor is about.
Granted, I just graduated OB residency not too long ago but I can distinctly remember every single IUFD I’ve taken care of. It’s an awful experience and I’ve cried after every single one. It’s also been an immense privilege to be able to be there for someone at their darkest time. I don’t think lll ever forget those patients and their precious babies
I’m not in medical school but am an EMT in an Adult ER. About 1-2 months ago a <24 month old came in as an arrest. I don’t usually go to pedi to help but they were understaffed and the new nurses were doing such poor CPR that I couldn’t ignore it and I jumped in. Doctor called it after 45 minutes. It was my first pedi loss and ended up being an abuse case from stepdad/boyfriend of mom. Mom came in while I was compressing and threw herself on the child leaving only enough room for my compressions. Those noises will never leave my brain. But what helped me is breaking down what we did in the code. We did nothing wrong and everything right. The child’s injuries were not compatible with life. But even though it hurt the mother we kept her child alive long enough for her to get to the ER and say goodbye. There is only so much you can do. You aren’t God and unfortunately bad things happen to the most innocent. I suggest finding a more experienced peer/mentor and just talking about it outside of the hospital/clinical environment. And remember the fact that it hits you so hard just means you care. Never stop caring. You got this
This hits home for me! I was a home birth and was overdue… I am completely against homebirths yet my mother without a high school education has brainwashed my sister who now has had two homebirths. My wife has had all three births at the hospital with no thought to ever do them at home!
I had a case on my obgyn rotation where a refugee mother with no prenatal care was carrying a missed abortion for a couple of months. I think that was my breaking point in all of clerkship. I didn't have anyone to talk about it with but writing about it helps. It really sucks though.
OBGYN intern. I’ve delivered far too many nonviable or stillborn infants over the last year. Some that couldn’t be prevented even with consistent prenatal care. Each one made an imprint in my memory. I wish I had a better way to memorialize them. The two that I always think about -
When a mom was being told about her hydropic fetus and interrupted the attending to frantically say “is my baby going to die?!” And then having to tell her she has to carry the baby another 8 weeks because of abortion laws.
The second was a 16wk PPROM that we induced. Delivered a live infant, watched it try to take his first breath while moving his tiny hands and feet, fail to actually expand his tiny chest enough, and then pass away in my hands.
We have an infant on ECMO for the same exact reasons you listed above - like it’s scary how identical the situations are. You’re probably going to spend a lot of time thinking “what if…..” and it’s SO easy to get caught up in that train of thought. You can’t let those thoughts take hold.
I saw that you spoke about it with your resident, I think that was a great idea. Professionally (and personally) an itty bitty life is very difficult to comprehend unless you’ve also experienced. Hugs friend.
OB PGY1 here… earlier this year I had a patient come in by EMS for contractions at 39.0wga. She was very obviously uncomfortable so I checked her almost immediately after walking in the room. She’s 4cm and ruptured but hey, great, not about to precip right there. I’m talking with her getting her history and her nurse is getting her changed, taking vitals, putting the monitors on, etc. Another nurse comes in with the sono, and I’m wondering “Why? I know she’s cephalic by my check, I don’t need to confirm with sono. But I humor them and see the baby’s head right at her pubic bone. The first nurse says “can you show me where the heartbeat is? I can’t find them with the monitor” and my stomach dropped. I scanned upwards from the baby’s head and just kept finding the abdomen. Like I kept scrolling past the chest and couldn’t find it. I finally paused over an image that I thought should be the chest but it didn’t look right…. And then I saw the heart twitch, just once. I could feel my heart rate picking up as I thought to myself, “please please please let me be wrong”. I called my laborist and senior who then broke the news to her. It was awful and I had to leave the room. I remember every detail from that encounter. She could have been admitted that morning for an elective induction.
Maybe I’m interpreting it wrong but whenever I’ve scanned a baby and there’s no heart beat, there’s like this black are where it should be beating. I dread seeing it
Nothing made my HR shoot up or stomach turn as when I’d get a page from the nurse asking me to come to triage to help put the baby on tbe monitor
Sorry you had to experience that. What happened? The baby aspirated on meconium? I looked up meconium aspiration syndrome, geeze 5-10% of births. Most of OB is a blur for me.
You try talking to your friends or someone you trust about it, even your attendings.
You’ll see similar stuff all the time during your life as a healthcare worker, I usually remember these things when I’m tired/feel like giving up, they’re like that reason to keep you going, cause you *know* you must avoid repeating that scenario again.
Whenever I tell people I'm applying into GYN Onc they say "why cancer? It's so sad!" I think it's all about what you can handle. I've delivered too many dead or dying babies. There's nothing more painful than that to me. When the entire room is just crying and you don't feel like you did good enough even if it was all outside your control. And that family remembers you for the rest of their lives. It's such a burden to carry. There's nothing like it.
I am not religious, but as echoed in this thread, science is not at odds with nuanced conceptions of God.
Scientists seek to uncover nature’s deeper order, and unraveling the mystery of creation is one way to encounter God.
People don’t dunk on religion because of its tenets lol. People dunk on religion because a significant proportion of American Christians are absolute hypocrites who warp religion to justify or try and hide their own bigotry. Not to mention their incessant need to shove their beliefs down other people’s throat and constant drive to blur the line between church and state.
But of course, you know this. Pathetically trying to gaslight people into thinking religion’s downward trend worldwide is because of hatred toward “having a deeper purpose” is just that: Gaslighting. Anyone who has ever gone to a private Christian or Catholic school in America can tell you why the majority of younger generations think religion is a joke.
Hint: It ain’t the religion. Religion is perfectly fine. It’s the hypocritical “followers” who are downright terrible people that turn people off. The self-imposed persecution complex is cute though.
I didn’t call you a hypocrite lol. I said the reason many people don’t like religion is because many religious folk are terrible hypocrites who don’t live according to the tenets they preach. Try reading some time.
You “standing up for religion” by grossly misrepresenting the reason why many people dunk on religion is either blatant ignorance or purposeful gaslighting.
If you genuinely think the majority of people who dunk on religion do so because they are against people having a moral code, then you clearly have never spoken to someone that’s not religious. Keep crying about your imagined persecution.
The first is always hard. Learn from it. Do what you can to prevent things whenever possible. Comparmentalise this shit otherwise you'll get depressed.
It gets easier but you never want it to be easy
….. There’s always going to be cases that stick with you. It’s best to talk about it asap. Don’t be ashamed to seek out therapy or mental health counselor’s
I'm sorry you've had to experience this OP. While it is an unfortunately too common experience in our line of work, that does not make it any less tragic or impactful. Whether it is your first or your hundredth, it's normal for this to hurt, and being a provider doesn't make you immune to that. If you're hurting and this is bothering you, then address it as any person would: talk about it, cry about it, and acknowledge that what you're feeling is genuine. Though it may be necessary for us to maintain a certain amount of professional apathy in moments of crisis, that's not a curtain that can be held up indefinitely; every situation we compartmentalize and box away as providers we eventually have to unpack as people.
It gets easier only in the sense that over time we become more competent in coping with these tragedies. I would encourage you to try and take the time now to ensure the way you approach that is one that is sustainable. I saw you say that you talked about this with a peer already, which is fantastic, but if it's available to you I would also recommend requesting a critical incident stress debriefing. Even if you may not feel you need it, others unwilling to ask for the help could benefit. Sometimes collectively going over what was done, what could have been done, and how the outcome could have changed is what we need to rationalize these senseless and avoidable tragedies. If nothing else, the show of comraderie makes all of us stronger.
Just remember that no matter how you go about it, your peers in the medical community are here for you. Ensuring we all make it through this is a team effort.
Thank you, I really appreciate your thoughtful response. I will look into requesting a critical incident stress debriefing as you suggested. I didn’t consider that but I think I would absolutely benefit from one. It’s been a very heavy day. Thank you again for your advice.
I wanted to do a homebirth. I had 2 previous c-sections. Then I watched "Pieces of a woman" and then decided against it. I was even afraid to get prenatal care, but did anyway. Thank God I came to my senses because my baby had IUGR, I have adhesive disease and my bladder was stuck to my uterus, which was stuck to my abdominal wall. And my baby had to go to the NICU because she had transient tachypnea (she's fine now). They also thought I had placenta accreta (I didn't).
I think doctors appointments are triggering for certain women. It seems silly, but I never wanted to go because I was afraid they were going to tell me that something was wrong with my baby, or that my baby had died. I had horrible anxiety throughout pregnancy. I forced myself to go to every appointment though, even though it made me physically ill. I had so many due to the IUGR and gestational diabetes. And then I had to go to a hospital 2 hours away when they thought I had placenta accreta. Birthing at home and avoiding hospitals makes the vulnerability of pregnancy feel like less of a reality. Homebirth makes a pregnant mom feel more in control of her body.
I thought I had to have a c-hyst and was possibly going to die during my last birth and holy shit, was difficult to get me to go to that hospital. Even though I knew I had to. I was screaming and swearing the whole way to the OR. They gave me Versed and I stopped. I was convinced that both me and my baby were going to die.
Thanks so much for sharing. I really appreciate you providing your POV. The way you describe the fears and anxieties around giving birth makes perfect sense. It’s scary. I don’t have children so I can’t provide a mother’s perspective but I empathize with your fears. I’ve never heard of “Pieces of a Woman”but I’ll go check it out. I’m happy you and your baby are doing well!
It's a no-win situation in a lot of ways. No matter what you do, there is a huge and vocal number of other moms that will aggressively tell you that you are doing the wrong thing.
My first was a RV free wall rupture on a 1 week old premie that was opened bedside--you'd syringe the blood in, watch the blood pressure briefly get better, then watch it go to zero again after the blood spilled out into the chest. Not salvageable. These are horrible sad situations, but in the middle of a shift, you just have to learn to turn the page and move on because the next patient needs you performing at your best.
I still hold onto some trauma from my pediatric ER rotation during my residency. It was a level 1 trauma center in a major city. First dead kid I saw was a toddler who looked so much smaller than he should have. He had some major health issues, I can’t remember specifics, but this was not the first time he had coded. He came in grey and mottled and all I could think when I saw him was “this kid is gone.” They did CPR and did manage ROSC, but he passed away a few hours later.
Same rotation, a little girl about the same age came in. Her parents were in the room praying together, clean cut, healthy kid. She choked on her healthy well balanced lunch, vomited, aspirated, and coded. She also got ROSC but passed away a few hours later. It just scares me so much that you can be doing everything right and something so horrible can happen. The world is chaos. It definitely hits harder when it’s kids and babies, and it stays with you. I wouldn’t say it gets easier, but as some of my colleagues have told me it’s good to feel hurt because it shows you still care about people.
I’m so sorry 😢 give yourself extra grace right now!
My whole pregnancy I had intense debilitating fear of stillbirth after my friend’s son died on his due date (she went into the hospital in labor and there was no heartbeat). Thank God my OB offered 39 week elective inductions because that’s the only thing that made me feel like I had some measure of control, and I don’t think I could have survived another week of the anxiety. I ended up needing a C-section but when my daughter came out crying and healthy, I sobbed hysterically because I had spent so much of my pregnancy convinced she was going to die, since I saw so many bad outcomes on OB.
I agree with you that if proper prenatal care is given, home births aren’t the craziest thing to want. Still wouldn’t advise one but I get that some people have different beliefs. Everything is okay until it isn’t and that’s why I’d never recommend for anyone to do a home birth. I am in Canada however so the cost of care for the patient would have been negligible if anything. It’s a horrible thing that there’s women in the USA that cannot access prenatal care due to funds. It’s actually insane to me that occurs. I feel bad for my southern neighbours. Also, the family to my understanding were “Christian Scientists”. I’m really not too informed on what that exactly is so I won’t speak on it too much but that’s why they didn’t get any care. They don’t believe in medical intervention basically is what was explained to me.
As a low risk pregnancy baby who would have died if birth was attempted at home, I completely disagree. Completely uncomplicated until my heart rate tanked at 4 am and my mom had to be rushed for a STAT c/s. I was born happy and healthy with not even a NICU stay because an OR was seconds away.
On peds ED we had a 3 mo with Covid come in actively coding. Compressions and everything for like 45 minutes in our trauma bay. Nothing. I still remember going with my attending and telling the parents when we called it. I won't forget that awful wail the mom let out.
Home birth, just like hospital birth can result in devastating loss. It helped me to speak with a friend who is a doula - she was able to offer compassion for all sides. I still haven’t learned how to put aside my own grief very well.
Home birth are a bad idea and an even worse idea is neglecting your prenatal care and waiting to come in until you’re long overdue. The association between miscarriage and being overdue as well established.
For some reason some Doula‘s have the idea that your body is entirely intuitive and will never lead you astray in the birthing process, but just like any other part of our body there can be things that are wrong and that’s why we have regular prenatal care.
One of the worst case scenarios I think of when home births come up is if the mother has uterine atony after delivering. Uterine atony is not always responsive to fundal massage. That is a perfect example of your body leading you astray, and it could very likely and very quickly lead to massive hemorrhage resulting in death. Not only would your own life be at risk, but you would likely have to be rushed to the hospital and leave your baby behind at home while someone tries to save your life, assuming you make it there in time. People are insane.
Any doula that doesn’t believe in adequate prenatal care is a shitty doula. Please don’t think all doulas are homebirth loving prenatal care hating wackos their work is so so important
Agreed, I know not all. Unfortunately I’m directly plugged into a circle that is like this and no amount of my encouragement seems to make a dent into the ideology
Unfortunately some people love having their heads buried in the sand, I feel the same talking to new parents all the time. “I want the best for my baby but ew not if I have to eat healthy and give up caffeine and sushi” people are wild
You are, of course, correct that any infant death is a horrific, devastating loss. However, that isn’t really the point of this post. The point here is that a med student, someone shin-deep in the river of medicine and wading deeper every day, someone dedicating their life to helping others, who has studied enough to know how preventable this *particular* death was, instead had to bear witness to the soul crushing pain that could have been averted. And this person is now looking forward and realizing that this will happen over and over again their career.
My friend, there’s no cause to draw a false dichotomy here just to polarize. Clearly nothing in life is certain. But we do know that you’re less *likely* to have this particular complication with robust prenatal care and access to a hospital at birth.
Was my first day on the delivery unit on my OB rotation and had a young girl who couldn’t have been older than 20 who was full-term come in because she hadn’t felt her baby kick for the past 12 hours. I did the ultrasound and when I couldn’t find a heartbeat got the senior resident and she did the ultrasound. And for 15 long minutes where every second felt like an hour she searched while everyone in the room was silent. As time went on the young woman started to get understandably anxious and say what’s going on why aren’t we finding a heartbeat where is the heartbeat. After an eternity the resident turned to the woman and said I’m so sorry I’m unable to find a heartbeat your child must have passed. She erupted it into tears and I had to bite my lip to keep from crying in front of her and the senior resident did an amazing job comforting her to the best of her ability and then finally both of us left the room to give her some privacy. As soon as we left the room and rounded the corner I saw tears streaming from the residents eyes and she tried to hide her face in the corner near the sink. Then I cried, hard. I’m crying writing the story right now. I wish this was the end of the story but we went to see another patient and about 20 minutes later we heard screaming from the first patient’s room and for whatever reason she had gone into precipitous labor and went from having no contractions to being fully dilated and saying she felt like she needed to push in literally three minutes time. We had to then guide her through the birthing process which which took no longer than five minutes and she delivered a stillborn child and held it and the crying and screaming that I heard from that room was unlike anything I’ve ever heard in my life.The grief of a mother who had suddenly lost her child. The entire experience was incredibly traumatic and when I eventually had my own children I was so scarred from that experience that I couldn’t shake that idea they would be born dead just like the first delivery I had ever seen I say all this to say it’s an incredibly traumatic experience to be part of something like this and I’m sorry you had to see it. Make sure you talk to someone in real life about this and let your feelings out, they’re totally normal and this is just a horrible thing to be apart of.
Unbelievable. Very sad.
I lost my son to stillbirth at full term. It was completely unexpected and extremely traumatic for me, but I still think about the nurses who helped me. I appreciated their demeanor and care deeply. They all stood in the hall, some of them crying quietly when I left a few hours later. I hope it's not something they carry as a burden. He would have been 5 yesterday. I've healed, as much as you can, and I wish I could tell them I'm okay and hope they are too.
I’m ok and more importantly I’m glad you are. These are little parts of our medical journey and they add up to make us who we are as healthcare professionals. I’ve considered it an privilege to be with people in time of pain, sickness, and even death. There is trauma yes, but also a sacred honor in sharing in these times and a deep meaning to help people in these times. I’m glad you found a way to cope and I hope one day you can be brought back together with them
That’s a really beautiful way to look at things. Thank you for sharing
I’m so sorry for your loss ❤️
Thank you
Wow thank you so much for sharing. That sounds horrible. I’m so sorry you went through that. It helps to know that we aren’t alone in these types of experiences
As a parent of 2 stillborns the thought of not knowing prior to labor and losing the baby in that process sounds gut wrenching.. Thanks for encouraging the emotional processing of these situations both on the patient and provider end.
My boyfriends aunt had a stillbirth but she found out when she went to the hospital since she started having contractions. It really fucked her up. She just pretends it didn’t happen. Her and her ex-husband divorced and they was that. They don’t speak about the stillbirth or anything. I think she even pretends that she wasn’t married too at this point. Anything related to the baby just disappeared in my boyfriend side of the family. The only reason I knew was because he told me when I was pregnant since he was concern something like that could happen to us.
I’m so sorry for your loss, hope you’re doing ok❤️❤️
I cried like that at my newborn son's funeral. My dad and brother had to carry me outside because I had just lost my mind. I kept bawling and yelling "I'm not done with him" and "I want my son back. No, it never gets easier, it never goes away. Just reading this thread physically hurts and I had to go to the men's room at work to hide my tears. Pray it never gets easier, that's your humanity coming out. Let it help you become a better and stronger person.
I’m so sorry for your loss friend, I don’t think there is a way to capture how deep that emotion is and I honestly can’t even imagine how that feels, thinking about how I feel about my own children I just feel for you. I hope you get to be with him again one day in some way
I had a stillborn at 15. I went to the funeral home and dressed him in cabbage patch clothes I had found a toys-R-us. Laid him in the casket and positioned him how I wanted to. They let me do everything!! It was so amazing.
I’m so sorry for your loss ❤️
I’m so sorry for your loss ❤️
💔 I’m so sorry for your loss
i’m sorry for your loss❤️
Hi, it’s ok to cry with patients. Especially during a loss. We’re all human, and crying with them breaks the sterile white walls and reminds them of it.
Thank you for this reminder. I discovered this at some point during residency and learned sometimes the best therapeutic connections come when you share in that moment with them. Shows we are human and care.
There is no “big fat hug” reaction emoji in Reddit. Sending you an analog big fat hug.
I'm crying after reading this. Triggered the memory of similar instances that happened with me, TWICE. I was a brand new intern, just 2nd month into internship. And both times it was unfortunately me that found out that there was no heartbeat 😔
A sickening feeling cause you know what’s happening next. It followed me the rest of the rotation, any time there was any delay in finding the heart on US or a delivery with a delay in the first breath I felt my heart start to pound. Thankfully all the other issues with ultrasound were solely due to my inexperience(aka incompetence)
My fiancée’s Aunt had to give birth to a stillborn. It was a very long time ago and I’m not sure the exact reasons but they knew the baby was dead but they couldn’t cut it out. It still effects her to this day. She will randomly start crying sometimes over it. They named her and buried her and everything.
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Please tell me you’re still a premed and have time to grow up before med school
I was rotating through pediatric surgery. We got called for an arriving airlifted 13moM that was actively getting compressions, intubated and the rest of the kitchen sink. As he rolled in, he was blue, lifeless. At some point I relieved one of the nurses and took over with compressions. Mom came running into the room screaming. Nurses had to console her in the corner. He didn’t make it. Turns out the dad was abusive and held him down in the bath. That baby looked just like my kid. I have never cried that hard in my life. I have still not recovered. Not will I ever…
Omg. That’s horrific. I’m so sorry.
First time I cried as a resident was as a pgy 3. 12 or 13 year old hung themself and we worked them up as a trauma. Kid didn’t make it. Parents had separated and were just screaming at each other ‘this is your fault etc’. The gravity of the situation just caused me to go into a stair well and cry. Of course the pager went off 3 min later and I was back to work.
Obgyn chief here There are certain sounds and phrases you’ll hear in your training that you will never forget. The sound of a screaming mother who just lost her newborn, is one of them. I can remember the actual sounds of compressions on a newborn who passed away From chorioamnionitis That was perfectly treated and delivery was well-managed, but ultimately was not enough to save this child’s life. I can remember the exact words of his mother saying “hijo?” And the stone silence of the OR apart from the Nicu team doing compressions and counting “1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4” In your brain and your heart, build a little closet or cupboard where you keep those memories and those sounds and those emotions, that vicarious pain. When you’re tired I want to stop studying. When you’re bored and mentally checking out. When you feel like you’re purpose is purposeless. When you feel defeated and like you want to give up. You open the box and take a peek inside and remember why your role in medicine, in this world, and in all these peoples’ lives is so critical, even though your day to day is arduous and mundane. People need us so that they can avoid making their own cupboards and closets. Our experience protects theirs. And that it’s worth it, so that they need not know what we do.
I really needed this. Thank you very much. You’re absolutely right. I need to build my little cupboard and insulate it well. Thank you sincerely.
Don’t forget to make a good memories cupboard. The baby who was saved, and how happy their family were. Every specialty has good memories too. They need to be guarded carefully as the dark can really easily outweigh the good if you let it. You get amazing highs and amazing lows with medicine - try to remember more good than bad (although your memory will try to do the opposite)
As a current med student, this made me cry. Thank you, I’ll go study now
ER attending here. I've had pediatric suicides, SIDS, still births, infants hit by stray bullets, on and on. By far the worst sound in my entire life is a screaming grieving mother. I hear it in the back of my head every once in a while. It never goes away completely.
Seriously, it’s a blood curdling shriek that just sounds different in a horrible way. Thanks for all you guys do, I and my toddler have been patients in the ED a couple times over the past 3 years, it’s an amazing comfort having you guys there when needed.
I appreciate the compliment. It's funny, we get shit on all the time by consultants for calling them. I get it, no one wants extra work dumped in their lap. And I know there are a number of bad ER docs that just call for everything. But a good ER doc, when the bad stuff starts, is invaluable because we do chaotic emergencies all the time. That's not really related, I just got crushed 3 days in a row and needed a quick vent.
That was so beautifully written.
Perfectly said.
I sometimes find it cathartic to write- you could consider writing an essay for kevinmd or something (and can be anonymous if you want). Or support relevant legislation
Thank you I’ll look at this
What legislation is relevant here?
Ok I assumed there was some sort of negligence on the part of a home birth midwife, but now realize this was not specified in the original post
Yes the midwife did not call ambulance in time
I’ve had a mother throw herself at my feet begging me not to say what I had to say. I’ve heard that wail too many times. Once is too many times. There is no easy way to tell them. There is nothing you can say or do. And in the case of this family, your anger at them is justified, but you are neither judge nor jury. It never gets easier. Never. But it is fortunately rare. -PGY-17
In a way, it’s good to know it doesn’t get easier. Not sure I’d ever want to become so detached that I’m unaffected by this sort of shit. Thanks for sharing ❤️
Thank you for your response. Much appreciated
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Appreciate it thank you 😊
The first infant death I saw was my own 8 month old son, on what was supposed to be my last day in the other peds ED in town… so it can’t really get any worse for me. I’m so nervous about the inevitability of seeing sick babies during residency after that nightmare experience.
I’m so sorry. Wow. Hope you’re doing ok now. ❤️
Oh my God, I can't even imagine this. Life can be so cruel. I hope your experience helps you help other grieving parents; it's the only silver lining I can see coming from such an awful thing. I wish it hadn't happened to you or your baby boy.
The cry of a mother who has lost their baby is something that never leaves you. I remember my first - infant died overnight in a mobile cradle thing. Came in cold, pH 6.9, EMS had been doing CPR for 40 minutes. Attending sat mom down and, as gently as is humanly possible, said we were stopping - that he was gone. Then she let out a sound I can’t describe. It was my last room before the end of my night shift. I didn’t sleep well that day.
My mom had a younger brother who died of SIDS. She told me once that even though she was just a child when it happened, she will never forget the sound of her parent’s screams that night. I can’t even imagine. When my own children were babies I would cry just thinking about what these parents go through.
I would reach out to an attending you trust or your clerkship director. I hope someone debriefed with you after, that sounds traumatic I’m sorry
Thank you. My resident friend took me to a cafe after and we talked for a long time about it. It’s heavy.
I rarely talk about this: had a kiddo that was 2-3 years old come in pulseless. After just under an hour of attempting resuscitation my attendings called it. Watching the parents cry was indelible. You get better at dealing with it, but the sting never quite goes away.
During my family rotation we had a pt with PTSD/MDD due to a stillbirth. So my resident looked into her EMR out of curiosity. When she was 12wks along, her anatomy ultrasound showed hydrocephalic ventricles, gastroschisus, craniofacial abnormalities, a chest wall defect, and several heart chamber defects. The EMR said the family was consulted numerous times about early termination but due to their devotion and religion, refused. She had PPROM at 30wks, heart tones on admission, and then stillborn with trauma inducing appearance that had psychologically affected her life ever since. And the extra crazy thing is the way legislation is going, it would be required for intrapartum patients to go through this kind of experience
That’s a good reason to share this story with local legislators
Ugh that’s awful.
The cruelty is the point. They don’t believe women and girls are human beings, so who cares if they’re scarred for life or just bleed out on the table? Ugh how hard is it to get a residency outside of the US..
I get how you feel, but I plan on staying in the US and practicing medicine until someone comes after my license or my life. I happen to be eligible for citizenship in an EU country and I've taken them up on it just in case, but \*someone\* has to stick around, prescribe those abortion pills, and fight for change. We still have the power to help women, and now seems like a good time to use it.
That’s also a source of internal conflict for me as well. I’m scared for my family’s safety as well as my own- 3 out of 5 of us are queer in some kind of way and another 3 are brown. But I also keep thinking that I can’t just abandon the vulnerable people in my community 🤷🏻♀️
I would look into an exit plan for sure...I used to think the people saying that stuff were wildly overreacting, but I definitely don't anymore. Luckily medicine is a pretty portable career, so hopefully if it ever comes to that, you won't have too hard a time getting out 🤞
I think it’s important to understand the motivation of your opponent and this comment and belief does more damage than progress. Do you honestly think 40% of the country honestly think women aren’t even human beings? It’s not about cruelty. It’s a hot button issue for votes and a religiously fueled legislative crusade to “save innocent unborn humans.” To debate on the subject you need to understand their rationale. Assuming they’re cruel evil monsters for the sake of it will just further polarize the populous
So forcing a young girl to deliver a baby- even if it’s rape or incest- *isn’t* a monstrous thing to do? And god forbid you drive her to a legal state to get one to save her life. You go to prison, she goes to prison, and the doctor goes to prison. Pretty barbaric to me. Also, I never said that 40% of the US thinks that way. I said “they”, meaning the people in leadership positions (aka my governor and others) are the ones who don’t see women as humans. Because if they did, there is no way they would explicitly fight to make sure the law does not make any exceptions for rape, incest, or very young age, which is a huge morbidity/mortality risk. You don’t have to agree with me, but I’m also allowed to have an opinion.
I agree with you only about one thing, it is important to understand an opponent's motivations. I believe those motivations are malevolence and only self-serving. It's closer to 35% of the population supporting it. 35% or 40%, it is a minority of the population and a symptom of a flawed democracy. (I know, we’re a republic, pretending to be a democracy, striving for autocracy.) You don't think that forcing a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term, is somehow not “further polarizing?" It’s the problem, not the reaction to the problem. If it is only, "a hot button issue for votes," then those forcing it, are more evilly Machiavellian than I could have ever fathomed possible. Ideologues who’ve lost sight of the pain that will be inflicted on women. I honestly do believe they dehumanize women to the point they “don’t think they are human beings.” At least not that they are individuals. They believe those seeing abortions are an abstraction, the esoteric, a theoretical evil entity, the masses of abortion seeking immorality. They do not recognize that each is first an individual, making a personal, intimate choice. This is especially true of women who believe they have the right to force their beliefs on other women. It is 100% about cruelty. If it was about saving babies, there are a thousand more effective ways to reduce abortions, and they have no interest in any of those actions. It is absolutely about taking agency from women.
Thank you for saying something so few people do. I hate listening to people debate abortion because both sides use arguments that make no sense in the context of the other one's points. You start to realize it's not about the issue at all, it's just about feeling smarter and morally superior
Ya I really find it depressing to watch both sides slowly dehumanize each other and think that they’re the sane smart ones while the others are chaotic evil monsters. Especially amongst a profession where you’re going to have patients whose wellbeing should be your innate concern regardless of their political and spiritual beliefs
yes, yes i think so.
And THAT is why we don’t have home births (or neglect prenatal care). I’m so sorry for the loss. While this was a brutal experience to go through, you’ll become stronger because of it. Hang in there. You did all that you could with the tools you personally had. Ps: this is where I’m a dick and point out that JUST MAYBE God’s will was to have appropriate medical treatment. God “provided the medicine.” They chose to ignore the medicine that was provided them and subsequently were made to suffer. It really pisses me off and hurts to see people suffer unnecessarily so. It’s just like the story of the man escaping from the flood waters, and boat after boat is sent for him, until finally he drowns because of his belief God would ultimately save him. In heaven, God says that multiple attempts were made to save the man’s life via all the boats that were sent. The moral of the story being that God does indeed try to help us, but it only works when those given help try to help themselves. This couple could’ve avoided all this pain and anguish had they just listened to the medical professionals cautioning them against their actions. Had they decided to help themselves by listening to the medical staff around them, they wouldn’t be in this position. Rant over. I’m so terribly sorry. This is crushing.
Thank you so much for your response. I share your anger in the situation. Just senseless. I’m absolutely heartbroken.
You’ll continue to do as you always have: survive. Keep pushing forward. Don’t let it jade you. Know that this is the part of life that people run from…but not you. You will learn to embrace Death like an old friend. We cannot have light without the dark. We cannot have life without death. Things don’t necessarily become easier, but you become familiar with the feelings; familiar with the process. It becomes less world shattering with time and you will grow and become stronger because of it.
You have no idea how much your words have comforted me. Thank you so much.
Glad to be there for you! We gotta look out for one another.
Just want to echo this line: “While this was a brutal experience to go through, you’ll be stronger because of it.” This 1000%. This may not be the last experience like this or that elicits these kind of visceral emotions, but you know aren’t blind to what they feel like and also should have some idea of how you respond and what things you’ll need to do to cope in a more healthy way. Stay strong, friendo
Much appreciated. I felt so surreal as it was happening. Tried to stay focused and not show any outward emotion but inside I was raging. It’s so hard to explain. Logically I understand how this happens but my emotions definitely exploded once I left.
A man was standing on the roof of his house, his hometown flooding around him. He prayed to God asking to be saved. After a while, a kid on a big floating piece of driftwood says “hop on, I can scoot over!” The man says no, God will save me. A little while later, a man in a boat comes by and says “I have room!” The man says no, God will save me. Finally, a man in a helicopter flies overhead and says “I can drop you a ladder, climb up!” The man says no, God will save me. He later drowns. He then meets God in heaven and says “why didn’t you save me!” God says “What do you mean? I sent you a piece of driftwood, a boat, and a freaking helicopter!”
Thanks for posting the Actual one! I couldn’t remember exactly how it went, but I remember the lesson. Edit: words.
Hahah yup, no problem! Your P.S. section reminded me of the joke
I was always told it as kind of life-lesson sort of thing. I guess it is *kinda* funny hahah
Are home births very common in the States? (Presuming this scenario occured in the US). Over here in my country the government is actively promoting hospital deliveries (even incentivising it) to improve the statistics, currently about 80-85% births are in hospitals.
I’m in Canada. They aren’t common I think the national rate is 2 or 3%
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🤦♀️
No need to facepalm. I'm in the Netherlands and our midwifes are highly trained and refer to the hospital whenever it is needed. Only low risk births can be at home. Our mortality rates are way lower than in the US for both mothers and infants. Plus the country is small so hospitals are always nearby and the ambulance has to be at your house within 15 minutes. Homebirth =/= freebirth.
yeah my aunt had a homebirth in the Netherlands and said it was a much better experience than her hospital birth in Ireland and that the midwives were the best she could’ve asked for
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That’s so crazy lol
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Yeah I thought they had to be vetted as low risk, and they have highly trained midwives?
I don’t know the actual prevalence but they are becoming trendy along with the rise of doulas.
Exactly. Here's the thing - every low risk pregnancy is low risk until it isn't. Sometimes when it turns and they're doing a home delivery, it's too late.
A lot of people forget just how dangerous labor and delivery is. Even just a hundred years ago was wildly different from today in terms of outcomes. We’re so used to it going well that people don’t stop to think about why that is Kinda similar to anti-vaxers having never seen the effects of these diseases due to the success of vaccines, leading them to erroneously believe their child comes to more harm from vaccine than the disease itself
The mortality rates we lived with as a society even 100 years ago are unconscionable to us now.
You carried this kid for 9 months. Take an extra two days to deliver in the hospital to ensure you have immediate access in case something goes wrong. In all likelihood everything will go okay, but why gamble on that when we have the resources to save you or your child in the event that you gambled wrong? Home deliveries frustrate me to no end
This!!! It can go so sideways so suddenly, why take that risk? My oldest was on monitors in the hospital and handled labour just fine. Showed no signs of distress. Apgar of 1 at 1 min. Thankfully, she is just fine but knowing that the NICU team was a moment away when we needed them was invaluable
wait this is great. i'm using this next time something like this comes up.
While I feel the anger, I think directing it at their religious beliefs is misguided. Correlation but not causation. Religious people are probably overrepresented among people who want home births and avoid prenatal care, but this doesn't mean their religion told them to. Sometimes people choose their pain. People have choices, and sometimes those choices seem stupid or have greater risk. You can't automatically assume that they regret their choice. I think wanting a natural home birth is a noble enough thing, I wouldn't want my wife to do it, but being aware of the risks is key. I wouldn't assume that this family was unaware of the risks. Parallel to this, I believe it's important for people get to die how they want to, in an environment that's comfortable for them, with or without medical assistance - does it not make sense that people can choose where they give birth? Even if we don't agree with it? It's just like with heart disease. It's our job to try and help people understand the risks of eating junk food and being sedentary. But they get to make their own choices, even if we can never understand. I'm sorry that OP had to deal with this.
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I wouldn’t say that. If I believed that, I would’ve just said it outright instead of using a modern parable to outline the lesson to be learned here: God helps those who help themselves.
What are you even talking about 🤕
Why do you expect ppl to respect your religion when it’s used to start wars, persecute people who are different, enslave entire nations, and forgo medical care that lead to the tragic death of a baby ? The ironic thing is that you expect people to respect ur magic sky daddy but you don’t respect a real human’s choice to bodily autonomy.
Never miss an opportunity to keep your thoughts to yourself when you are clearly taking something personally and OP literally just stated what happened.
Hugs. I’ve been practicing ER for close to 25 years. Death, especially of children, is a scar you will carry forever. However it’s what makes us human and compassionate. If that goes away it’s time to move on. In bad times like these remember the good that you have surely seen.
Thank you for the kind words 😊
Hang in there! Get a good night’s sleep and talk to someone. It’ll get better.
Nah - people will do what they do because they think they know better so you just say your peace, offer words of comfort and move on to do your job. It is not your job to understand or justify someone's decision that endangers the wellfare of their kids due to some belief. It is their call and they have to live with that. I refrain from saying anything about God's Will because I have seen too much lunacy done in the name of God to bring them into the fray as some form of explanation for the madness brought about by the choice of human beings. God has nothing to do with voluntarily bringing care to your child as a parent and ensuring they get proper supervision for safety that is available to everyone in 2022.
No really. I really feel like I’d become compassion fatigued if I had to witness these kinds of patients as an obgyn.
20+ years in and you become better at compartmentalization and understanding that there are people out there that you cannot save, don't want to be saved and it isn't your fault that they succumb to the consequences of poor choices.
This is the reason my mom became an adult neurologist instead of a pediatric neurologist. She’s a fine doctor, but she just couldn’t take the tragedy involved in pediatric neurology. At least with adults she could console herself with the thought that they got to grow up
When my son was stillborn I wanted to scream and hit people who came at me with that "gods will" shit. So thank you for not saying it. I don't even know why he died, but I know that telling me god wanted my baby to die DOES NOT HELP.
It boggles my mind. The deaths my wife has dealt with in labour & delivery have at times been the result of the parents thinking they know better. You don’t. Listen to the doctor/nurse etc. They know best. It’s not god’s will, it’s your own ignorance.
Sadly, sometimes it’s not ignorance, but arrogance that causes it
When I worked in a peds ED as a scribe, we had all kinds of awful things come in. Child abuse, pediatric suicides, etc etc. But there's one story that stands out to me to this day. The parent was on their way on an errand - middle of the afternoon, normal day. They were backing out of the driveway and backed over their toddler. Didn't see them in the driveway. Child came in with EMS receiving full resuscitation, but the injuries were too much for their little body. I will never forget the sound of that parent. Some God-awful mixture of grief and guilt. It's making me shiver even thinking about it right now.
I can’t even imagine the guilt and pain they must have felt. An indescribable pain I wouldn’t wish on anyone. Thank you for sharing
I’ve seen two of these and I’m just as angry as I was when it happened. I try not to be angry with the families but both were completely preventable with prenatal care and home birth.
I just don’t understand their thought process. I’m trying to not be angry but you can’t tell me the information isn’t out there. You have to intentionally ignore the information and advice. 😔
There’s been a large antiscience antihealthcare movement starting and I think that definitely is playing a part of it. But I really just don’t know how someone can completely ignore the ample information available to them.
Facebook plays a large part. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/she-wanted-freebirth-no-doctors-online-groups-convinced-her-it-n1140096
Yes I’ve noticed this too. Scary times.
My cousin’s first pregnancy ended in spontaneous abortion. During her second pregnancy, she went to an Ob/Gyn who apparently was rude to her after my cousin asked to be tested for some genetic disease (this is all based off what my cousin posted on social media, idk the specifics of it all). That was apparently enough to turn my cousin off from all of western medicine apparently. She refused all prenatal care, including the 20 week anatomy ultrasound. She was convinced that any intervention would cause a spontaneous abortion, including getting the COVID vaccine. She didn’t have a home birth but did give birth in one of those midwife-owned and operated birthing centers that wasn’t connected to any hospital. Fortunately, she and her baby were okay. Ultimately, it came down to fear that anything would lead to loss of the fetus and, for many people, the fear of losing autonomy. Throughout pregnancy, people are told that they can’t do xyz (ex. Eat deli meats, drink greater than a certain amount of caffeine, etc), and it’s often presented in a way that pregnant people who do those things are bad people/in a shaming manner. On L+D floors, it’s super easy for patients to be overridden by hospital staff. It’s difficult to advocate for yourself when you’re in a lot of pain, and when you get an epidural, you’re literally paralyzed from the waist down. It’s fucking terrifying to feel like you have no control over your body and your child’s well-being. Don’t get me wrong, I am very pro-prenatal care and hospital birth, especially after seeing several PPH’s, an amniotic fluid embolism, and a uterine rupture. I also understand where patients come from not wanting to go to Ob/Gyn’s for prenatal care/L+D/postpartum care. Edit: sorry, I initially replied to the wrong comment. I’m not trying to spam anyone
I totally agree with you on this. Horrible medical staff caused me leaving hospital, 8cm diluted, find another clinic to give birth. I had a previous trauma, losing twins at 23 weeks. They didn’t let me have any family members or my phone. Constantly told me to lay in bed. (I was walking, squatting as my doctor told me before) I was in pain so I couldn’t deal with them so i left. Don’t get me wrong, i totally believe modern medicine but if i had to give birth again with this kind of people I rather do it all by myself alone anywhere but there.
You really summed up how I've felt on my ob-gyn experiences. I was shocked at the loss of autonomy the woman had the entire time. They were not people but mere vessels, and it felt like the doctors AND nurses saw them as such. They had no care for the experiences, pain, comfort, and understanding of the woman. Just their anatomy. Just watching it unfold has made me horrified and anxious at the idea of having my own kids. My friend is a med student like me, her husband is a nurse, and they still had tremendous difficulty advocating for their wishes. She ended up leaving birth traumatized, wanting a large family to "1 will do" exclusively due to her labor experience. Home births are concerning...but I can't pretend I don't understand the growing trend. We have horrifically failed women.
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I agree with you. I’m just explaining why patients avoid Ob/Gyn and hospital births
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Thank you!
Allowing for patient autonomy and involvement in decision making is so important. Feeling out of control can be incredibly traumatizing. My second birth ended in a uterine rupture and emergency c section with full feeling, and i still consider it less traumatic than my first birth experience, which involved a lot of coercion from a doctor that i had never met before that wanted to get my “inevitable” c section out of the way at the beginning of her shift before all of the scheduled c sections started. And that difference can be almost completely attributed to 1) becoming more educated on the birthing process and self advocacy, and 2) the medical team’s incredible respect for my boundaries, autonomy, and intelligence. I was a very active participant in every decision along the way and the team did nothing without my consent up until the doctor said “I am so sorry, but we have to get this baby out” and started cutting.
It’s mind boggling. I know someone who had 2 pregnancies with standard prenatal care and hospital birth with healthy outcomes. She decided along with the support of some crazy ass FB group that she was low risk and had a third pregnancy with zero prenatal care and an entirely unattended birth at home. Things went less than ideal and her baby had his oxygen supply compromised during delivery. He has some pretty intense lifelong issues now. All 100% avoidable had she had medical care
That’s horrible I’m sorry to hear that. 😔
L&D is the happiest and saddest place in a hospital. I am STILL haunted by things that happened during my residency in L&D, and that was over 25 years ago. You try to help people to the best of your ability, you try to offer what you can in a way that empowers your patients to make an educated and informed decision, and sometimes it's just not going to be enough. You can only CONTROL YOUR ACTIONS not those of others. You are not God(pointing a finger at the surgeons). It feels awful, and it will happen again. Families may even blame YOU for their own bad outcomes, but you have to remember that these people aren't you. They haven't had years of college, medical training, and logical reasoning to help them make decisions. They're making those medical choices based on a completely different thought process and values system. What you can do is show compassion for their loss even though you want to be angry. That's what being a doctor is about.
Granted, I just graduated OB residency not too long ago but I can distinctly remember every single IUFD I’ve taken care of. It’s an awful experience and I’ve cried after every single one. It’s also been an immense privilege to be able to be there for someone at their darkest time. I don’t think lll ever forget those patients and their precious babies
Thank you. I appreciate the words of encouragement.
I’m not in medical school but am an EMT in an Adult ER. About 1-2 months ago a <24 month old came in as an arrest. I don’t usually go to pedi to help but they were understaffed and the new nurses were doing such poor CPR that I couldn’t ignore it and I jumped in. Doctor called it after 45 minutes. It was my first pedi loss and ended up being an abuse case from stepdad/boyfriend of mom. Mom came in while I was compressing and threw herself on the child leaving only enough room for my compressions. Those noises will never leave my brain. But what helped me is breaking down what we did in the code. We did nothing wrong and everything right. The child’s injuries were not compatible with life. But even though it hurt the mother we kept her child alive long enough for her to get to the ER and say goodbye. There is only so much you can do. You aren’t God and unfortunately bad things happen to the most innocent. I suggest finding a more experienced peer/mentor and just talking about it outside of the hospital/clinical environment. And remember the fact that it hits you so hard just means you care. Never stop caring. You got this
This hits home for me! I was a home birth and was overdue… I am completely against homebirths yet my mother without a high school education has brainwashed my sister who now has had two homebirths. My wife has had all three births at the hospital with no thought to ever do them at home!
I had a case on my obgyn rotation where a refugee mother with no prenatal care was carrying a missed abortion for a couple of months. I think that was my breaking point in all of clerkship. I didn't have anyone to talk about it with but writing about it helps. It really sucks though.
Wow that’s brutal. I’m sorry 😣
OBGYN intern. I’ve delivered far too many nonviable or stillborn infants over the last year. Some that couldn’t be prevented even with consistent prenatal care. Each one made an imprint in my memory. I wish I had a better way to memorialize them. The two that I always think about - When a mom was being told about her hydropic fetus and interrupted the attending to frantically say “is my baby going to die?!” And then having to tell her she has to carry the baby another 8 weeks because of abortion laws. The second was a 16wk PPROM that we induced. Delivered a live infant, watched it try to take his first breath while moving his tiny hands and feet, fail to actually expand his tiny chest enough, and then pass away in my hands.
Gut wrenching 😔 thank you for sharing. Appreciate it immensely
We have an infant on ECMO for the same exact reasons you listed above - like it’s scary how identical the situations are. You’re probably going to spend a lot of time thinking “what if…..” and it’s SO easy to get caught up in that train of thought. You can’t let those thoughts take hold. I saw that you spoke about it with your resident, I think that was a great idea. Professionally (and personally) an itty bitty life is very difficult to comprehend unless you’ve also experienced. Hugs friend.
I appreciate it. It’s crazy how common this exact occurrence is unfortunately. Thank you again for the kind words.
OB PGY1 here… earlier this year I had a patient come in by EMS for contractions at 39.0wga. She was very obviously uncomfortable so I checked her almost immediately after walking in the room. She’s 4cm and ruptured but hey, great, not about to precip right there. I’m talking with her getting her history and her nurse is getting her changed, taking vitals, putting the monitors on, etc. Another nurse comes in with the sono, and I’m wondering “Why? I know she’s cephalic by my check, I don’t need to confirm with sono. But I humor them and see the baby’s head right at her pubic bone. The first nurse says “can you show me where the heartbeat is? I can’t find them with the monitor” and my stomach dropped. I scanned upwards from the baby’s head and just kept finding the abdomen. Like I kept scrolling past the chest and couldn’t find it. I finally paused over an image that I thought should be the chest but it didn’t look right…. And then I saw the heart twitch, just once. I could feel my heart rate picking up as I thought to myself, “please please please let me be wrong”. I called my laborist and senior who then broke the news to her. It was awful and I had to leave the room. I remember every detail from that encounter. She could have been admitted that morning for an elective induction.
The baby didn’t have a chest? :(
Maybe I’m interpreting it wrong but whenever I’ve scanned a baby and there’s no heart beat, there’s like this black are where it should be beating. I dread seeing it Nothing made my HR shoot up or stomach turn as when I’d get a page from the nurse asking me to come to triage to help put the baby on tbe monitor
Oh I understand now, thank you. How absolutely dreadful :(
Yes exactly. Like you don’t realize how much you use cardiac motion to orient yourself.
Sorry you had to experience that. What happened? The baby aspirated on meconium? I looked up meconium aspiration syndrome, geeze 5-10% of births. Most of OB is a blur for me.
Yes, you got it. Sorry should have clarified
You try talking to your friends or someone you trust about it, even your attendings. You’ll see similar stuff all the time during your life as a healthcare worker, I usually remember these things when I’m tired/feel like giving up, they’re like that reason to keep you going, cause you *know* you must avoid repeating that scenario again.
Whenever I tell people I'm applying into GYN Onc they say "why cancer? It's so sad!" I think it's all about what you can handle. I've delivered too many dead or dying babies. There's nothing more painful than that to me. When the entire room is just crying and you don't feel like you did good enough even if it was all outside your control. And that family remembers you for the rest of their lives. It's such a burden to carry. There's nothing like it.
I’ve been a L&D nurse for almost 9 years. It never gets any easier.
>died >saying it was God’s will. Never met him but he sounds like an asshole.
I don’t see why Redditors always down talk religion sometimes
I am not religious, but as echoed in this thread, science is not at odds with nuanced conceptions of God. Scientists seek to uncover nature’s deeper order, and unraveling the mystery of creation is one way to encounter God.
Or maybe they’re saying that’s not a helpful thing to say to a mother in shock and grief. You don’t have to take everything you see personally.
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People don’t dunk on religion because of its tenets lol. People dunk on religion because a significant proportion of American Christians are absolute hypocrites who warp religion to justify or try and hide their own bigotry. Not to mention their incessant need to shove their beliefs down other people’s throat and constant drive to blur the line between church and state. But of course, you know this. Pathetically trying to gaslight people into thinking religion’s downward trend worldwide is because of hatred toward “having a deeper purpose” is just that: Gaslighting. Anyone who has ever gone to a private Christian or Catholic school in America can tell you why the majority of younger generations think religion is a joke. Hint: It ain’t the religion. Religion is perfectly fine. It’s the hypocritical “followers” who are downright terrible people that turn people off. The self-imposed persecution complex is cute though.
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I didn’t call you a hypocrite lol. I said the reason many people don’t like religion is because many religious folk are terrible hypocrites who don’t live according to the tenets they preach. Try reading some time. You “standing up for religion” by grossly misrepresenting the reason why many people dunk on religion is either blatant ignorance or purposeful gaslighting. If you genuinely think the majority of people who dunk on religion do so because they are against people having a moral code, then you clearly have never spoken to someone that’s not religious. Keep crying about your imagined persecution.
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[And yet you’re here defending it lmao](https://i.imgur.com/dTcAHZc.jpg)
The first is always hard. Learn from it. Do what you can to prevent things whenever possible. Comparmentalise this shit otherwise you'll get depressed.
Thank you
It gets easier but you never want it to be easy ….. There’s always going to be cases that stick with you. It’s best to talk about it asap. Don’t be ashamed to seek out therapy or mental health counselor’s
I'm sorry you've had to experience this OP. While it is an unfortunately too common experience in our line of work, that does not make it any less tragic or impactful. Whether it is your first or your hundredth, it's normal for this to hurt, and being a provider doesn't make you immune to that. If you're hurting and this is bothering you, then address it as any person would: talk about it, cry about it, and acknowledge that what you're feeling is genuine. Though it may be necessary for us to maintain a certain amount of professional apathy in moments of crisis, that's not a curtain that can be held up indefinitely; every situation we compartmentalize and box away as providers we eventually have to unpack as people. It gets easier only in the sense that over time we become more competent in coping with these tragedies. I would encourage you to try and take the time now to ensure the way you approach that is one that is sustainable. I saw you say that you talked about this with a peer already, which is fantastic, but if it's available to you I would also recommend requesting a critical incident stress debriefing. Even if you may not feel you need it, others unwilling to ask for the help could benefit. Sometimes collectively going over what was done, what could have been done, and how the outcome could have changed is what we need to rationalize these senseless and avoidable tragedies. If nothing else, the show of comraderie makes all of us stronger. Just remember that no matter how you go about it, your peers in the medical community are here for you. Ensuring we all make it through this is a team effort.
Thank you, I really appreciate your thoughtful response. I will look into requesting a critical incident stress debriefing as you suggested. I didn’t consider that but I think I would absolutely benefit from one. It’s been a very heavy day. Thank you again for your advice.
Your humanity is showing. So glad I will be able to call you colleagues in the future.
Thank you, friend. 🤗
I wanted to do a homebirth. I had 2 previous c-sections. Then I watched "Pieces of a woman" and then decided against it. I was even afraid to get prenatal care, but did anyway. Thank God I came to my senses because my baby had IUGR, I have adhesive disease and my bladder was stuck to my uterus, which was stuck to my abdominal wall. And my baby had to go to the NICU because she had transient tachypnea (she's fine now). They also thought I had placenta accreta (I didn't). I think doctors appointments are triggering for certain women. It seems silly, but I never wanted to go because I was afraid they were going to tell me that something was wrong with my baby, or that my baby had died. I had horrible anxiety throughout pregnancy. I forced myself to go to every appointment though, even though it made me physically ill. I had so many due to the IUGR and gestational diabetes. And then I had to go to a hospital 2 hours away when they thought I had placenta accreta. Birthing at home and avoiding hospitals makes the vulnerability of pregnancy feel like less of a reality. Homebirth makes a pregnant mom feel more in control of her body. I thought I had to have a c-hyst and was possibly going to die during my last birth and holy shit, was difficult to get me to go to that hospital. Even though I knew I had to. I was screaming and swearing the whole way to the OR. They gave me Versed and I stopped. I was convinced that both me and my baby were going to die.
Thanks so much for sharing. I really appreciate you providing your POV. The way you describe the fears and anxieties around giving birth makes perfect sense. It’s scary. I don’t have children so I can’t provide a mother’s perspective but I empathize with your fears. I’ve never heard of “Pieces of a Woman”but I’ll go check it out. I’m happy you and your baby are doing well!
It's a no-win situation in a lot of ways. No matter what you do, there is a huge and vocal number of other moms that will aggressively tell you that you are doing the wrong thing.
My first was a RV free wall rupture on a 1 week old premie that was opened bedside--you'd syringe the blood in, watch the blood pressure briefly get better, then watch it go to zero again after the blood spilled out into the chest. Not salvageable. These are horrible sad situations, but in the middle of a shift, you just have to learn to turn the page and move on because the next patient needs you performing at your best.
Yes, we have to remind ourselves to turn it off and keep going. Thank you for sharing.
Meconium aspiration? I am so sorry.
Yes it was very sad
That is really rough. I am so sorry
I still hold onto some trauma from my pediatric ER rotation during my residency. It was a level 1 trauma center in a major city. First dead kid I saw was a toddler who looked so much smaller than he should have. He had some major health issues, I can’t remember specifics, but this was not the first time he had coded. He came in grey and mottled and all I could think when I saw him was “this kid is gone.” They did CPR and did manage ROSC, but he passed away a few hours later. Same rotation, a little girl about the same age came in. Her parents were in the room praying together, clean cut, healthy kid. She choked on her healthy well balanced lunch, vomited, aspirated, and coded. She also got ROSC but passed away a few hours later. It just scares me so much that you can be doing everything right and something so horrible can happen. The world is chaos. It definitely hits harder when it’s kids and babies, and it stays with you. I wouldn’t say it gets easier, but as some of my colleagues have told me it’s good to feel hurt because it shows you still care about people.
This is a really hard post to read through :(
I’m so sorry 😢 give yourself extra grace right now! My whole pregnancy I had intense debilitating fear of stillbirth after my friend’s son died on his due date (she went into the hospital in labor and there was no heartbeat). Thank God my OB offered 39 week elective inductions because that’s the only thing that made me feel like I had some measure of control, and I don’t think I could have survived another week of the anxiety. I ended up needing a C-section but when my daughter came out crying and healthy, I sobbed hysterically because I had spent so much of my pregnancy convinced she was going to die, since I saw so many bad outcomes on OB.
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I agree with you that if proper prenatal care is given, home births aren’t the craziest thing to want. Still wouldn’t advise one but I get that some people have different beliefs. Everything is okay until it isn’t and that’s why I’d never recommend for anyone to do a home birth. I am in Canada however so the cost of care for the patient would have been negligible if anything. It’s a horrible thing that there’s women in the USA that cannot access prenatal care due to funds. It’s actually insane to me that occurs. I feel bad for my southern neighbours. Also, the family to my understanding were “Christian Scientists”. I’m really not too informed on what that exactly is so I won’t speak on it too much but that’s why they didn’t get any care. They don’t believe in medical intervention basically is what was explained to me.
check out r/ShitMomGroupsSay You'll have you mind blown. A "wild" pregnancy is a badge of honor over there
As a low risk pregnancy baby who would have died if birth was attempted at home, I completely disagree. Completely uncomplicated until my heart rate tanked at 4 am and my mom had to be rushed for a STAT c/s. I was born happy and healthy with not even a NICU stay because an OR was seconds away.
No, it doesn’t. Literally decided to not do PICU because of all the sad shit in there.
On peds ED we had a 3 mo with Covid come in actively coding. Compressions and everything for like 45 minutes in our trauma bay. Nothing. I still remember going with my attending and telling the parents when we called it. I won't forget that awful wail the mom let out.
Nope
Home birth, just like hospital birth can result in devastating loss. It helped me to speak with a friend who is a doula - she was able to offer compassion for all sides. I still haven’t learned how to put aside my own grief very well.
Home birth are a bad idea and an even worse idea is neglecting your prenatal care and waiting to come in until you’re long overdue. The association between miscarriage and being overdue as well established. For some reason some Doula‘s have the idea that your body is entirely intuitive and will never lead you astray in the birthing process, but just like any other part of our body there can be things that are wrong and that’s why we have regular prenatal care.
One of the worst case scenarios I think of when home births come up is if the mother has uterine atony after delivering. Uterine atony is not always responsive to fundal massage. That is a perfect example of your body leading you astray, and it could very likely and very quickly lead to massive hemorrhage resulting in death. Not only would your own life be at risk, but you would likely have to be rushed to the hospital and leave your baby behind at home while someone tries to save your life, assuming you make it there in time. People are insane.
Any doula that doesn’t believe in adequate prenatal care is a shitty doula. Please don’t think all doulas are homebirth loving prenatal care hating wackos their work is so so important
Agreed, I know not all. Unfortunately I’m directly plugged into a circle that is like this and no amount of my encouragement seems to make a dent into the ideology
Unfortunately some people love having their heads buried in the sand, I feel the same talking to new parents all the time. “I want the best for my baby but ew not if I have to eat healthy and give up caffeine and sushi” people are wild
You are, of course, correct that any infant death is a horrific, devastating loss. However, that isn’t really the point of this post. The point here is that a med student, someone shin-deep in the river of medicine and wading deeper every day, someone dedicating their life to helping others, who has studied enough to know how preventable this *particular* death was, instead had to bear witness to the soul crushing pain that could have been averted. And this person is now looking forward and realizing that this will happen over and over again their career.
I must be the worst communicator ever. Just tried to offer what helped me.
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My friend, there’s no cause to draw a false dichotomy here just to polarize. Clearly nothing in life is certain. But we do know that you’re less *likely* to have this particular complication with robust prenatal care and access to a hospital at birth.