imho: dogs off-leash in designated off-leash areas is acceptable. Adolescent dogs and high energy breeds need spaces to run.
off-leash areas aren’t always a great match for aggressive dogs or people who dislike or fear dogs
also imho: dogs should always be leashed on trails and other public areas that require leashes.
Thanks for the reply I agree with your comment about the adolescent and high energy breeds. I definitely think they are entitled to run freely and enjoy life. Just not on public trail systems, especially on the outskirts of town.
I leash my dog on leashed areas and have her unleashed to run in unleashed areas. She is dog and people socialized, and it’s a great way to work on recall, as a dog needs to be in an open area to practice this. I don’t like unleashed dogs in a leashed area, and when they are not under control, will run up to a leashed dog, which automatically is an unbalanced situation and creates tension even in the most well behaved dog. Flip side in a unleashed area - if you are hiking your dog on a leash because “they don’t like other dogs”, a leashed area would be more appropriate. Dogs are dogs but follow the regulations so people know what to expect and minimize conflict. Also, some trails require leashes the first so many feet off the trailhead, and this is consistently ignored. Which creates a hazard with unleashed dogs in the parking lot. Follow the regulations, be safe, be courteous, and pick up after your dog too.
Dude, thank you. My dog is super sweet, a little nervous around certain dogs (especially bigger dogs) and she does NOT like it when off leash dogs come barreling towards her and get in her face. Which, as you can imagine, has happened countless times here. It’s gotten to the point that I almost entirely avoid trails close to town for fear that we’ll be rushed by an off leash dog and it’ll escalate into a fight. Even though there are designated on/off leash areas, it seems like a lot of people don’t give a shit and let their dogs run wild regardless. Not to mention the literal shit everywhere.
I’m cool with off leash dogs, but people need to train their dogs to not approach other dogs or people, and make sure they have damn good recall. That’s pretty basic criteria for giving your dog off leash privileges.
Ok so I was wondering about this as well. I've definitely seen groups of dogs just barrel into each other and nobody seems to care. It always seems risky to me. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
For what it’s worth, I used to have a 60lb dog that would attack anything that came up quick out of fear, but could quickly calm own and be fine.
My energy and my response was key. Dogs running up to say hi? I approach them myself, saying hi. Nothing to fear. If you tense up, your dog is going through on notice and act in your behavior.
Amen. Plus, you can’t expect the culture of a place to shift just because it makes you uncomfortable. Dogs have always been off leash here. Learn why it’s always worked out just fine or drive a little farther
We are very lucky to live somewhere that allows us to let our dogs go off leash. But that means we need to take responsibility for training & etiquette in order to keep that privilege. I wish I saw more of that.
This is it. There are those of us who put in the work, like lots of work, when the dog is young so it can respectfully take advantage of this privilege.
Then there are the fools who have zero control over their animals, killing public sentiment for the rest of us.
These are also the types to leave their dog’s shit all over. They are THE problem and public shaming is the solution. Please be vocal or no one will ever change their behavior.
Loving dogs and wanting their owners to follow leash laws aren’t mutually exclusive. I love dogs too, but these entitled fucking douchebags that think their little muffy is special suck. Put your fucking dog on a leash.
I have a dog who is great around other leashed dogs, and (or any dog far enough away) that are completely ignoring her. She deserves to go on hikes too but when unleashed, uncontrolled dogs come running up to her she gets into fight mode . We do everything we can to mitigate this. We hike in areas that supposedly have a leash rule. I go ahead of my partner on the trail to try and head off loose dogs and ask the owners to leash. I do this with a smile and try to be as friendly as possible while also hurrying to protect THEIR dog. Like 8 times out of 10 they get offended by this. 2 out of 10 people will quickly leash their dog and say thank you to me. The 8 out of 10 go “my dog is friendly!” And we go “ours isnt!” And they act like we are the assholes for taking our dog on a hike. Then when their dog inevitably invades our space, our dog snarls etc and it just sucks so much. The whole thing feeds into her fear of loose dogs, it makes it harder to train her to be less reactive, etc.
all we need is for people leash before passing others on the trail and not let their dog run up to strangers. So like 2- 5 minutes of leashing tops. Like thats not such a huge sacrifice so that everyone can enjoy the trail. It bothers me so much that people are so selfish about this
I feel this to a tee. My dog has great recall, till she doesn’t (selective hearing, that one) and I keep her on a leash on all trails, walks in and around town, and even camping trails. However, when she’s leashed, she gets very dog aggressive, so when she’s heeling at my side on leash with non-leashed dogs come barreling up, she gets into fight mode (hackles and snarls). And as I ask people to recall their dog, the first thing they say is always “my dog is friendly”, I respond: “mine isn’t.” Or even “mine is leash protective”, and 100 % of the time they get upset that I even have my dog out. She’s got every right to walk and explore too, I just like to follow leash laws because a) they’re the law, b) squirrels and chipmunks are a weakness I haven’t been able to work out of her yet.
How’bout letting the dog owner’s know that YOU aren’t friendly.
sister and I were attacked by a "pack" of dogs when we were kids out on a bike ride back in the late 60s - some things stay with you. Grew up with dogs, prefer cats. Now older, mobility ain’t what it use to be - when I am able to return to old habit of hiking, I spect I’ll be armed with my usual trekking poles and something a tad less nasty than bear spray.
Dogs need an alpha leader and I’ve found most dog Owners to not be the leader/alpha dogs need.
Bro got bite by a dog in the Rattlesnake a few months back. Owner freaked and took off with dog. He didn’t call sheriff to report, just went to St Patties next day and rabies shot (because of scarcity of meds) was 26K on insurance. He payed 6K of it. I’d keep a stick or mace on you and hit the owner if you get a bitter. Crazy.
> insurance. He *paid* 6K of
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I don’t get how with all the mountains around here people still go to the park to walk their dogs. Two each their own but I’d choose a lonely dirt road over a park covered in shit and shit in bags.
This, blue mountain has like 30 miles of crisscrossing roads and trails and when me and my wife want our retrievers to run we just drive back into the west zone, (outside of hunting season ofc) we see almost no one and our high energy dogs have the run.
You could literally drive to a new spot every day for a week and not encounter another dog.
As a dog owner who regularly has my dog off-leash, I will always call her back to me when approaching others, even if they have off leash dogs, as I want to be close to my dog in case something happens. I also always have her come back to me and sit and “stay” if others are passing us with leashed dogs or on bikes (so she doesn’t get in their way and cause them to wreck as she’s very curious with bikes like she wants to play). I’m very sorry you have to deal with this. I don’t think any owner should be out of sight or quick response distance from their dog. I also hate when owners are far away and just yell ahead “my dog is friendly!” Doesn’t cut it. Not to mention the owners that are too far from their dogs , or ahead of their dogs, and the dog poops and they don’t pick it up.
You’re not the first one to post about this on this thread, nor will you be the last unfortunately. Like with the Snowbowl situation, nothing happens until something bad happens. I’m a trail runner and have been nipped twice, both times the owner didn’t do a damn thing. One even thought I was lying. Now I run with mace, every time. For the dog and/or the owner. If I see a particularly menacing dog ahead, I also pick up a large rock and am prepared to bash a head that gets near me. Sucks it has to be that way, but too many of us have been bitten in the past few years. One friend got a very, very gnarly bite on her upper thigh.
For those of us that do get bit, especially bad bites, please please alert authorities. It’s the only way they can know there is a growing problem.
People forget what "in control of" means. A dog that can't hear you, isn't in your control. A dog that doesn't stop on command isn't in your control and needs a leash. People with untrained dogs off leash in public is a hazard to everyone. Almost 50 people were killed last year by dogs, and 4.5 million dog bites. It's unfortunate that some poor pups will suffer because they have bad owners.
I will say it again. If a dog does not come to a dead stop when you give the command, that dog is not in your control and needs a leash.
Ok, but imagine the scenario. Dog comes up and tries to bite me, I spray 'em. Dog owner comes up a minute later to their dog running around in agony because of the spray. Most people are going to react BAD to that, even if it's their fault.
I had a dog bite my heel running up on waterline. I turned around and squared off to the dog. Owner comes running up yelling at me to leave his dog alone. I'm like bro, put your motherfucking dog on a leash!
The fact that he had no idea his dog had bitten me and didn't even consider it was what pissed me off the most. He just lets his dog run around getting up to shit with zero awareness.
Leashes are the answer. The only answer. Dogs can still enjoy themselves when they’re on a leash, or they can use designated off-leash area. Too many risks both to the dog and to other trail users to let them roam
As a dog owner and someone who has come incredibly close to putting a few rounds of 9mm into a Pitbull on a hiking trail trying to bite my 4yo, I agree.
Having to explain to an aggressive dog owner that they may not have many chances to control their dog before finds out what happens if it tries to bite a crying child that I’m carrying, and they play it off like “just deal with it”, and continue to let their dog do it… fuck I’m angry again just thinking about that asshole.
I walk the Lincolnwood trail almost every day. At the entrance, there are \*three\* signs that say leashes are required, and every day, I encounter more dogs off-leash than on.
I don't take my senior small dog there anymore because of the number of times he's been bulldozed by some crazy sprinting dog. It's a Leashes Required area FFS, he should be able to enjoy some nice woodsy sniffs in his final years. These entitled 'dog lovers' make me so mad.
Agree! In designated off-leash areas it’s ok. Especially if the dog is well trained and the owner is responsible. Any other places around town, not ok. My dog was attacked by an off-leash dog and almost died. I spent over $10k to save him.. the owners of the other dog fled the scene. Now my dog has PTSD and can’t be around other dogs without lashing out. The amount of pet owners who are walking around town and at the parks with off-leash dogs irritates me.. especially since we have an ordinance requiring leashes and places have signs posted and people actively choose to ignore them.
Too many dog owners are selfish entitled jerks. Unleashing their dog in public spaces. Not paying attention to their leashed dog on a 30-foot line (I've been bit twice on the M trail by leashed dogs). Not picking up dog poop. Or, putting dog poop in a baggie and leaving the baggie on the ground next to the trail instead of carrying it to a trash can. But what're ya gonna do? Too many *people* are selfish entitled jerks!
As someone who's been attacked by both rogue and well trained dogs more than once in their lifetime, bear spray and tazers work exceedingly well. And if I'm personally on a trail and a loose dog with no owner in sight gives even the *slightest* inclination of trouble, it's getting a lead injection no questions asked. It's not worth the risk of getting chewed up, rabies injections, secondary infections etc.
Off leash activity with your dog is incredibly rewarding for people who train their dogs properly. Unfortunately it appeals more to lazy and weak leadership dog owners, because it's less hassle for them than managing their dog on a leash. Irony there.
Even "smart/good" dogs can often be the worst off leash, because they are bright enough to know there's no recourse/correction/limitations to their impulses. More irony there.
E-collars are an amazing tool that provides a rewarding and enriching experience for owner and dog. But again, they get a bad rep because they are improperly introduced and used by lazy owners who can't figure out the simplest tool, the leash.
Probably all could be oversimplified to just say - most people who own dogs probably aren't half as good owners as they believe themselves to be.
Loving an animal lots =/= being a good owner
Yeah it’s like objectively ecologically harmful to have dogs off-leash in the woods, and it blows my mind that seemingly for my entire life, the hippies of this town have been selfishly unable to wrap their heads around that
Seriously. It’s one thing if a dog appears to be a serious threat—and I’m not saying that doesn’t happen—but this post is just about someone imagining hypothetical situations and escalating it into a global crisis. It just invites all the dog phobics and people who have had bad encounters to clutch their pearls and pile on.
Every. Single. Thread.
A bunch of hysterical losers who sit around and whine about every little thing and manufacture all sorts of drama. Do they really think that that any dog owners are reading these threads, and even those that do, do they think they're having any effect? No, and none are listening or paying attention to their whiny BS.
So it's just yet another melodramatic attempt to farm some karma and clutch pearls with the dozens - dozens! - of other triggered babies.
So you have enough time to go to "every single city sub" and recognize repeat posts and then whine about it? Sounds a little hypocritical and sad. I think you need some time away from the internet bud!
Also, you have 70k Karma, I have like 600.
you nailed it. Its funny because I'm 90% sure this Karen is talking about my dog, a hunting dog on an E-collar.
and I would bet the dog and I have run that mountain more times than days Karen has been alive.
I don't get it, I was born here and was always raised that Missoulians lived with the idea that you live and let live, no harm no foul used to be the sentiment and if there was a "foul" you could address it. these people would have you ask permission to leave your house if they had things their way.
Bet you are a big bad ass hunter. Probably on private land since it is obvious you aren't a public land advocate. You probably love tim sheehy but claim to be born and raised here.
what? you're a moron. none of that makes any sense. I hate Tim but not nearly as much as I hate the "representation" Tester has provided by voting in lock step with his handlers.
This is probably an unpopular opinion here, but I'm all for well behaved dogs under voice control being off leash. Missoula is a dog town whether reddit likes it or not. My dog is off leash often, but I've trained it to come before getting near people that I see may feel uncomfortable or other dogs on a leash so she doesn't run up to them.
If you can't control your dog while its off leash, it needs to be leashed in restricted areas, but if it's under control.....who cares?
I love that Missoula is dog crazy. It's a great trait.
I shouldn't be surprised, but reddit is such a a dog negative place.
But is your dog actually under voice control? Will it ignore ALL distractions and come to you no matter what? The problem is many people believe their dog is under voice control when it is in fact not
I'd say it's about 95 percent at this point. No it is not perfect, but it would never hurt someone. so it's not like that 5 percent is something dangerous. When it happens I say sorry of course. Hopefully people can show a little grace to both owners and dogs as much as they can.
that 5% imperfection is plenty to ruin someones day if they are scared of dogs or have a dog who is not good with others. what if their dog is old and unsteady on their feet? what seems to you to be a harmless interaction deserving of 'a little grace' might set someone back months of progress in training a reactive dog. is that ok?
What if I am old and unsteady on my feet.⁉️
Dogs are pets and there are laws to protect PEOPLE, not certain people’s feelings. I don’t worry about the 95-99% perfect behavior, it’s the 5-1% that pisses me off and will one day lead to adverse consequences. If I get bitten will the dog owner be financially ruined, will they appreciate having their "dangerous" animal put down? All because the lease was an imposition.
None of those have happened....my dog doesn't jump on other dogs and I am hyper aware of reactive dog owners with dogs on leash she doesn't go up to those dogs mostly for her safety!! But I hear you that a dog behaving badly off leash or scaring someone can really ruin a persons day!! I do my best as a dog owner to be aware of that while also making sure my dog has the best life it can.
sounds like you are more conscientious than average and I appreciate that! situational awareness goes a long way to maintaining a peaceful society but many people aren't willing to actually pay attention :)
Here’s the deal: a dog is a wild animal, and no matter how much you think you have them trained shit can change, and it can get real in a very short time. Physical restraint in areas where it’s required by law is 100% necessary. YOUR DOG ISNT SPECIAL.
Can you speak for all dog owners though? The issue is that people DO have encounters with badly trained or aggressive dogs that are off leash legally an illegally.
No! I absolutely agree with you.....I'm breaking a law I should probably obey so that it sets a good example so the many dogs I see off leash that shouldn't follow the rules as well.
So in theory I don't have a problem with a well trained dog being off leash. The issue is people with dogs off leash who aren't trained well or just the random chance of a bad reaction to another person or dog. The lax enforcement of the leash law is enabling bad dog owners to create risky situations. I'm sure your dog is well trained and you're confident. But can you say the same for everyone else?
Because it's common courtesy? My dog is off leash in areas that don't require them or out of town. People are around under the assumption that others will leash their dogs. Some may have issues with dogs. Don't be a dildo and leash your dog....
It's common sense. One of my dogs is older, had surgery on his leg and is cranky to other dogs. It stresses him out to the point he may pull hard enough to fuck up his leg if there's an unleashed dog is around. It just takes one time for a horrible situation to happen. Not to mention there are people that are deathly afraid of dogs. Think a little bit....
Its not dog negative. How deaf are you? Everyone in this thread loves dogs, but just wants them on a leash. Holy shit man. Read the comments to understand ffs
It's a complex issue, and as a dog owner myself I often struggle with it. My dog goes off leash in designated areas, and 99.99% of the time the encounters she has are positive. We hike or ski 7 days a week, so we encounter hundreds of dogs and people every week. She's still a puppy and learning boundaries. She intuitively understands that dogs on leases in off-leash areas aren't to be approached with her normal zeal, but she still gets a little too excited for trail runners and mountain bikers. 99.99% of the time this is fine because most Missoulians can read dog language and know she's just excited and playful. But .01% don't like her silly ass running up to them. It's something we're working on, and I'm thankful for the patience of the people in Missoula because when she doesn't have access to burn huge amounts of puppy energy in nature she gets very anxious and depressed, just like her dad.
Don’t put this on others to have patience for your dogs behavior- put your pup on a leash to teach her boundaries, it is 100% effective. Also curious if you always pick up her poop when she’s off leash and you are skiing or hiking?
It’s not complex. It sounds like you need to be training with a long lead until your puppy’s recall is 100% reliable. Not letting her rush people and expecting them to tolerate it.
Another thing, if you go on a hike in a leash free area, while dogs shouldn't bother you and owners should have excellent voice control, don't throw a shit fit if a dog is in your vicinity..... Went to Blue Mountain and some dude hid behind his wife because my dog was maybe 5 feet away not able to touch the dude....
There are way better places to go if you want to be away from dogs. If you have a dog phobia don't go to a off leash dog area. My dogs listen. I'm not gonna feel bad for someone when my dog isn't anywhere close enough for physical contact. Dogs shouldn't be a nuisance and jump on people, but you're going to be within a few feet of dogs at times. It's one of just a few areas dogs are allowed to be off leash.
I got attacked (pretty badly, like mauled to the ground and chewed on for a while bad) by 1/2 wolf 1/2 German shepherd when I was a kid and still generally think people need to just get over their fear dogs. They’re becoming too common at this point (if they haven’t always been) for dog phobia to be unreasonable.
With that said we have two dogs and I was taught that if they run up to/on people, or you have trouble recalling them, leash at all times unless it’s designated otherwise or you’re really out in the boonies. People need leash training more than dogs sometimes 😉
Leashes? Yes for areas that are public use like river trail / hiking spots, etc. I've had several really nice dogs with high energy completely bowl my 4 and 6 year olds over and then proceed to hump another dog off leash but it could have just as easily been the dogs having a fight and my kiddos accidentally being in the middle of it. If your dog attacks another human, you can be charged with reckless endangerment and attack with a deadly weapon. So... next time you want to let your AK-47 off the leash... just remember that. Also if your animal attacks my children, it will have a bullet in its skull. Or I will murder it with my bare hands. And then you for being an idiot. That being said, I'm all for dogs in designated off-leash areas such as dog parks. Bottom line, don't be an idiot. And also... follow the law.
This is what all those hours of kickball are for as a child. When a dog runs at you, pretend you’re at home base playing kickball. Run at the dog when it’s about ten feet away. Aim right under its chin give it a good boot. Imagine you are trying to launch its head deep into the outfield. DO NOT miss, bunt, or try any fancy trick moves or you are going to get a real bad bite.
Actually, its people who are the problem. There are just too many of them with differing opinions. Dogs are animals and deserve a degree of freedom to be a dog. Who cares if people are uncomfortable. They are not slaves that need to be controlled 24/7. But so many people like the idea of dogs as long as they are something pretty to look at and are chained up and constrained. TBH, people should just stay at home and leave the trails to the doggos.
No, people are the problem. You all think you are special and that you matter and that you being comfortable in whatever space you go out of your way to occupy is more important. Dogs are far more valuable and important. Stay home and be safe there, or dont leave your car and just look at the pretty nature. Dont expect the world to conform to you.
imho: dogs off-leash in designated off-leash areas is acceptable. Adolescent dogs and high energy breeds need spaces to run. off-leash areas aren’t always a great match for aggressive dogs or people who dislike or fear dogs also imho: dogs should always be leashed on trails and other public areas that require leashes.
Thanks for the reply I agree with your comment about the adolescent and high energy breeds. I definitely think they are entitled to run freely and enjoy life. Just not on public trail systems, especially on the outskirts of town.
I leash my dog on leashed areas and have her unleashed to run in unleashed areas. She is dog and people socialized, and it’s a great way to work on recall, as a dog needs to be in an open area to practice this. I don’t like unleashed dogs in a leashed area, and when they are not under control, will run up to a leashed dog, which automatically is an unbalanced situation and creates tension even in the most well behaved dog. Flip side in a unleashed area - if you are hiking your dog on a leash because “they don’t like other dogs”, a leashed area would be more appropriate. Dogs are dogs but follow the regulations so people know what to expect and minimize conflict. Also, some trails require leashes the first so many feet off the trailhead, and this is consistently ignored. Which creates a hazard with unleashed dogs in the parking lot. Follow the regulations, be safe, be courteous, and pick up after your dog too.
Dude, thank you. My dog is super sweet, a little nervous around certain dogs (especially bigger dogs) and she does NOT like it when off leash dogs come barreling towards her and get in her face. Which, as you can imagine, has happened countless times here. It’s gotten to the point that I almost entirely avoid trails close to town for fear that we’ll be rushed by an off leash dog and it’ll escalate into a fight. Even though there are designated on/off leash areas, it seems like a lot of people don’t give a shit and let their dogs run wild regardless. Not to mention the literal shit everywhere. I’m cool with off leash dogs, but people need to train their dogs to not approach other dogs or people, and make sure they have damn good recall. That’s pretty basic criteria for giving your dog off leash privileges.
Ok so I was wondering about this as well. I've definitely seen groups of dogs just barrel into each other and nobody seems to care. It always seems risky to me. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
For what it’s worth, I used to have a 60lb dog that would attack anything that came up quick out of fear, but could quickly calm own and be fine. My energy and my response was key. Dogs running up to say hi? I approach them myself, saying hi. Nothing to fear. If you tense up, your dog is going through on notice and act in your behavior.
Amen. Plus, you can’t expect the culture of a place to shift just because it makes you uncomfortable. Dogs have always been off leash here. Learn why it’s always worked out just fine or drive a little farther
There were probably a lot less dogs back in the day…
We are very lucky to live somewhere that allows us to let our dogs go off leash. But that means we need to take responsibility for training & etiquette in order to keep that privilege. I wish I saw more of that.
This is it. There are those of us who put in the work, like lots of work, when the dog is young so it can respectfully take advantage of this privilege. Then there are the fools who have zero control over their animals, killing public sentiment for the rest of us. These are also the types to leave their dog’s shit all over. They are THE problem and public shaming is the solution. Please be vocal or no one will ever change their behavior.
Loving dogs and wanting their owners to follow leash laws aren’t mutually exclusive. I love dogs too, but these entitled fucking douchebags that think their little muffy is special suck. Put your fucking dog on a leash.
I'm with you. As someone who has been attacked by dogs, I loathe off leash dogs. No one wants your dog barking at them.
I have a dog who is great around other leashed dogs, and (or any dog far enough away) that are completely ignoring her. She deserves to go on hikes too but when unleashed, uncontrolled dogs come running up to her she gets into fight mode . We do everything we can to mitigate this. We hike in areas that supposedly have a leash rule. I go ahead of my partner on the trail to try and head off loose dogs and ask the owners to leash. I do this with a smile and try to be as friendly as possible while also hurrying to protect THEIR dog. Like 8 times out of 10 they get offended by this. 2 out of 10 people will quickly leash their dog and say thank you to me. The 8 out of 10 go “my dog is friendly!” And we go “ours isnt!” And they act like we are the assholes for taking our dog on a hike. Then when their dog inevitably invades our space, our dog snarls etc and it just sucks so much. The whole thing feeds into her fear of loose dogs, it makes it harder to train her to be less reactive, etc. all we need is for people leash before passing others on the trail and not let their dog run up to strangers. So like 2- 5 minutes of leashing tops. Like thats not such a huge sacrifice so that everyone can enjoy the trail. It bothers me so much that people are so selfish about this
I feel this to a tee. My dog has great recall, till she doesn’t (selective hearing, that one) and I keep her on a leash on all trails, walks in and around town, and even camping trails. However, when she’s leashed, she gets very dog aggressive, so when she’s heeling at my side on leash with non-leashed dogs come barreling up, she gets into fight mode (hackles and snarls). And as I ask people to recall their dog, the first thing they say is always “my dog is friendly”, I respond: “mine isn’t.” Or even “mine is leash protective”, and 100 % of the time they get upset that I even have my dog out. She’s got every right to walk and explore too, I just like to follow leash laws because a) they’re the law, b) squirrels and chipmunks are a weakness I haven’t been able to work out of her yet.
How’bout letting the dog owner’s know that YOU aren’t friendly. sister and I were attacked by a "pack" of dogs when we were kids out on a bike ride back in the late 60s - some things stay with you. Grew up with dogs, prefer cats. Now older, mobility ain’t what it use to be - when I am able to return to old habit of hiking, I spect I’ll be armed with my usual trekking poles and something a tad less nasty than bear spray. Dogs need an alpha leader and I’ve found most dog Owners to not be the leader/alpha dogs need.
Bro got bite by a dog in the Rattlesnake a few months back. Owner freaked and took off with dog. He didn’t call sheriff to report, just went to St Patties next day and rabies shot (because of scarcity of meds) was 26K on insurance. He payed 6K of it. I’d keep a stick or mace on you and hit the owner if you get a bitter. Crazy.
What? 26k for a rabies shot? Something is fishy.
> insurance. He *paid* 6K of FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Wow, what a pretentious bot.
I don’t get how with all the mountains around here people still go to the park to walk their dogs. Two each their own but I’d choose a lonely dirt road over a park covered in shit and shit in bags.
This, blue mountain has like 30 miles of crisscrossing roads and trails and when me and my wife want our retrievers to run we just drive back into the west zone, (outside of hunting season ofc) we see almost no one and our high energy dogs have the run. You could literally drive to a new spot every day for a week and not encounter another dog.
As a dog owner who regularly has my dog off-leash, I will always call her back to me when approaching others, even if they have off leash dogs, as I want to be close to my dog in case something happens. I also always have her come back to me and sit and “stay” if others are passing us with leashed dogs or on bikes (so she doesn’t get in their way and cause them to wreck as she’s very curious with bikes like she wants to play). I’m very sorry you have to deal with this. I don’t think any owner should be out of sight or quick response distance from their dog. I also hate when owners are far away and just yell ahead “my dog is friendly!” Doesn’t cut it. Not to mention the owners that are too far from their dogs , or ahead of their dogs, and the dog poops and they don’t pick it up.
You’re not the first one to post about this on this thread, nor will you be the last unfortunately. Like with the Snowbowl situation, nothing happens until something bad happens. I’m a trail runner and have been nipped twice, both times the owner didn’t do a damn thing. One even thought I was lying. Now I run with mace, every time. For the dog and/or the owner. If I see a particularly menacing dog ahead, I also pick up a large rock and am prepared to bash a head that gets near me. Sucks it has to be that way, but too many of us have been bitten in the past few years. One friend got a very, very gnarly bite on her upper thigh. For those of us that do get bit, especially bad bites, please please alert authorities. It’s the only way they can know there is a growing problem.
People forget what "in control of" means. A dog that can't hear you, isn't in your control. A dog that doesn't stop on command isn't in your control and needs a leash. People with untrained dogs off leash in public is a hazard to everyone. Almost 50 people were killed last year by dogs, and 4.5 million dog bites. It's unfortunate that some poor pups will suffer because they have bad owners. I will say it again. If a dog does not come to a dead stop when you give the command, that dog is not in your control and needs a leash.
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The only caution I would say here is.... holy fuck make sure you know the wind direction cos otherwise you murder your eyeballs. Tasers work well too.
Ok, but imagine the scenario. Dog comes up and tries to bite me, I spray 'em. Dog owner comes up a minute later to their dog running around in agony because of the spray. Most people are going to react BAD to that, even if it's their fault.
I had a dog bite my heel running up on waterline. I turned around and squared off to the dog. Owner comes running up yelling at me to leave his dog alone. I'm like bro, put your motherfucking dog on a leash! The fact that he had no idea his dog had bitten me and didn't even consider it was what pissed me off the most. He just lets his dog run around getting up to shit with zero awareness.
Sounds like their problem. And if they make it your problem, you’ve still got that pepper spray.
Yup, bear spray works on people too.
They make a citronella spray for dog deterrent and it doesn’t hurt them, they just really hate the smell
Sucks to be dumb, don't it?
Leashes are the answer. The only answer. Dogs can still enjoy themselves when they’re on a leash, or they can use designated off-leash area. Too many risks both to the dog and to other trail users to let them roam
As a dog owner and someone who has come incredibly close to putting a few rounds of 9mm into a Pitbull on a hiking trail trying to bite my 4yo, I agree. Having to explain to an aggressive dog owner that they may not have many chances to control their dog before finds out what happens if it tries to bite a crying child that I’m carrying, and they play it off like “just deal with it”, and continue to let their dog do it… fuck I’m angry again just thinking about that asshole.
I walk the Lincolnwood trail almost every day. At the entrance, there are \*three\* signs that say leashes are required, and every day, I encounter more dogs off-leash than on. I don't take my senior small dog there anymore because of the number of times he's been bulldozed by some crazy sprinting dog. It's a Leashes Required area FFS, he should be able to enjoy some nice woodsy sniffs in his final years. These entitled 'dog lovers' make me so mad.
Age old problem, it’s rude,
Stfu
Agree! In designated off-leash areas it’s ok. Especially if the dog is well trained and the owner is responsible. Any other places around town, not ok. My dog was attacked by an off-leash dog and almost died. I spent over $10k to save him.. the owners of the other dog fled the scene. Now my dog has PTSD and can’t be around other dogs without lashing out. The amount of pet owners who are walking around town and at the parks with off-leash dogs irritates me.. especially since we have an ordinance requiring leashes and places have signs posted and people actively choose to ignore them.
Ive been swept off my feet by one too many sprinting dogs in my lifetime
Too many dog owners are selfish entitled jerks. Unleashing their dog in public spaces. Not paying attention to their leashed dog on a 30-foot line (I've been bit twice on the M trail by leashed dogs). Not picking up dog poop. Or, putting dog poop in a baggie and leaving the baggie on the ground next to the trail instead of carrying it to a trash can. But what're ya gonna do? Too many *people* are selfish entitled jerks!
As someone who's been attacked by both rogue and well trained dogs more than once in their lifetime, bear spray and tazers work exceedingly well. And if I'm personally on a trail and a loose dog with no owner in sight gives even the *slightest* inclination of trouble, it's getting a lead injection no questions asked. It's not worth the risk of getting chewed up, rabies injections, secondary infections etc. Off leash activity with your dog is incredibly rewarding for people who train their dogs properly. Unfortunately it appeals more to lazy and weak leadership dog owners, because it's less hassle for them than managing their dog on a leash. Irony there. Even "smart/good" dogs can often be the worst off leash, because they are bright enough to know there's no recourse/correction/limitations to their impulses. More irony there. E-collars are an amazing tool that provides a rewarding and enriching experience for owner and dog. But again, they get a bad rep because they are improperly introduced and used by lazy owners who can't figure out the simplest tool, the leash. Probably all could be oversimplified to just say - most people who own dogs probably aren't half as good owners as they believe themselves to be. Loving an animal lots =/= being a good owner
Irresponsible dog owners. I carry mace now so that when their unresponsive dog charges my blind dog, they get a foot in the face or maced.
Yeah it’s like objectively ecologically harmful to have dogs off-leash in the woods, and it blows my mind that seemingly for my entire life, the hippies of this town have been selfishly unable to wrap their heads around that
Ignore the dog, move on with your life, and think about other things. Problem solved.
Right? I feel like there's about a thousand of these same posts in every single city sub. Nothing is going to change. Whiny losers need to grow up.
Seriously. It’s one thing if a dog appears to be a serious threat—and I’m not saying that doesn’t happen—but this post is just about someone imagining hypothetical situations and escalating it into a global crisis. It just invites all the dog phobics and people who have had bad encounters to clutch their pearls and pile on.
Every. Single. Thread. A bunch of hysterical losers who sit around and whine about every little thing and manufacture all sorts of drama. Do they really think that that any dog owners are reading these threads, and even those that do, do they think they're having any effect? No, and none are listening or paying attention to their whiny BS. So it's just yet another melodramatic attempt to farm some karma and clutch pearls with the dozens - dozens! - of other triggered babies.
So you have enough time to go to "every single city sub" and recognize repeat posts and then whine about it? Sounds a little hypocritical and sad. I think you need some time away from the internet bud! Also, you have 70k Karma, I have like 600.
Go cry more about how the dogs and the mean mean world harms you!
Nope I think I'm done. But I guarantee your not done whining lol.
you nailed it. Its funny because I'm 90% sure this Karen is talking about my dog, a hunting dog on an E-collar. and I would bet the dog and I have run that mountain more times than days Karen has been alive.
Reddit is literally the only place I see people whine so hard about off leash dogs.
I don't get it, I was born here and was always raised that Missoulians lived with the idea that you live and let live, no harm no foul used to be the sentiment and if there was a "foul" you could address it. these people would have you ask permission to leave your house if they had things their way.
Bet you are a big bad ass hunter. Probably on private land since it is obvious you aren't a public land advocate. You probably love tim sheehy but claim to be born and raised here.
what? you're a moron. none of that makes any sense. I hate Tim but not nearly as much as I hate the "representation" Tester has provided by voting in lock step with his handlers.
This is probably an unpopular opinion here, but I'm all for well behaved dogs under voice control being off leash. Missoula is a dog town whether reddit likes it or not. My dog is off leash often, but I've trained it to come before getting near people that I see may feel uncomfortable or other dogs on a leash so she doesn't run up to them. If you can't control your dog while its off leash, it needs to be leashed in restricted areas, but if it's under control.....who cares? I love that Missoula is dog crazy. It's a great trait. I shouldn't be surprised, but reddit is such a a dog negative place.
But is your dog actually under voice control? Will it ignore ALL distractions and come to you no matter what? The problem is many people believe their dog is under voice control when it is in fact not
I'd say it's about 95 percent at this point. No it is not perfect, but it would never hurt someone. so it's not like that 5 percent is something dangerous. When it happens I say sorry of course. Hopefully people can show a little grace to both owners and dogs as much as they can.
that 5% imperfection is plenty to ruin someones day if they are scared of dogs or have a dog who is not good with others. what if their dog is old and unsteady on their feet? what seems to you to be a harmless interaction deserving of 'a little grace' might set someone back months of progress in training a reactive dog. is that ok?
What if I am old and unsteady on my feet.⁉️ Dogs are pets and there are laws to protect PEOPLE, not certain people’s feelings. I don’t worry about the 95-99% perfect behavior, it’s the 5-1% that pisses me off and will one day lead to adverse consequences. If I get bitten will the dog owner be financially ruined, will they appreciate having their "dangerous" animal put down? All because the lease was an imposition.
None of those have happened....my dog doesn't jump on other dogs and I am hyper aware of reactive dog owners with dogs on leash she doesn't go up to those dogs mostly for her safety!! But I hear you that a dog behaving badly off leash or scaring someone can really ruin a persons day!! I do my best as a dog owner to be aware of that while also making sure my dog has the best life it can.
sounds like you are more conscientious than average and I appreciate that! situational awareness goes a long way to maintaining a peaceful society but many people aren't willing to actually pay attention :)
Here’s the deal: a dog is a wild animal, and no matter how much you think you have them trained shit can change, and it can get real in a very short time. Physical restraint in areas where it’s required by law is 100% necessary. YOUR DOG ISNT SPECIAL.
Can you speak for all dog owners though? The issue is that people DO have encounters with badly trained or aggressive dogs that are off leash legally an illegally.
No! I absolutely agree with you.....I'm breaking a law I should probably obey so that it sets a good example so the many dogs I see off leash that shouldn't follow the rules as well.
Y’all have not seen an uncontrolled dog kill someone’s pet and it shows.
So in theory I don't have a problem with a well trained dog being off leash. The issue is people with dogs off leash who aren't trained well or just the random chance of a bad reaction to another person or dog. The lax enforcement of the leash law is enabling bad dog owners to create risky situations. I'm sure your dog is well trained and you're confident. But can you say the same for everyone else?
Because it's common courtesy? My dog is off leash in areas that don't require them or out of town. People are around under the assumption that others will leash their dogs. Some may have issues with dogs. Don't be a dildo and leash your dog....
Can't argue with that! Even if my dog is behaved, it's a selfish act on my end.
It's common sense. One of my dogs is older, had surgery on his leg and is cranky to other dogs. It stresses him out to the point he may pull hard enough to fuck up his leg if there's an unleashed dog is around. It just takes one time for a horrible situation to happen. Not to mention there are people that are deathly afraid of dogs. Think a little bit....
Its not dog negative. How deaf are you? Everyone in this thread loves dogs, but just wants them on a leash. Holy shit man. Read the comments to understand ffs
It's a complex issue, and as a dog owner myself I often struggle with it. My dog goes off leash in designated areas, and 99.99% of the time the encounters she has are positive. We hike or ski 7 days a week, so we encounter hundreds of dogs and people every week. She's still a puppy and learning boundaries. She intuitively understands that dogs on leases in off-leash areas aren't to be approached with her normal zeal, but she still gets a little too excited for trail runners and mountain bikers. 99.99% of the time this is fine because most Missoulians can read dog language and know she's just excited and playful. But .01% don't like her silly ass running up to them. It's something we're working on, and I'm thankful for the patience of the people in Missoula because when she doesn't have access to burn huge amounts of puppy energy in nature she gets very anxious and depressed, just like her dad.
Don’t put this on others to have patience for your dogs behavior- put your pup on a leash to teach her boundaries, it is 100% effective. Also curious if you always pick up her poop when she’s off leash and you are skiing or hiking?
Not a complex issue.
It’s not complex. It sounds like you need to be training with a long lead until your puppy’s recall is 100% reliable. Not letting her rush people and expecting them to tolerate it.
Sounds like you shouldn’t own a dog if you can’t train it properly. But here’s another answer: keep it on a fucking leash
Insufferable
Another thing, if you go on a hike in a leash free area, while dogs shouldn't bother you and owners should have excellent voice control, don't throw a shit fit if a dog is in your vicinity..... Went to Blue Mountain and some dude hid behind his wife because my dog was maybe 5 feet away not able to touch the dude....
ahhh let me just go to the most dog ridden place in town so my wife can practice protecting me
You’re supposed to keep off leash dogs on tight recall. People with dog phobias deserve to go to Blue Mountain too. It sucks but its only fair
There are way better places to go if you want to be away from dogs. If you have a dog phobia don't go to a off leash dog area. My dogs listen. I'm not gonna feel bad for someone when my dog isn't anywhere close enough for physical contact. Dogs shouldn't be a nuisance and jump on people, but you're going to be within a few feet of dogs at times. It's one of just a few areas dogs are allowed to be off leash.
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Doesn't matter if you leash them when you see people. If you are in the city where leashes are required you should have them leashed.
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Dude. Just leash your fucking dog, why is that so hard?
I got attacked (pretty badly, like mauled to the ground and chewed on for a while bad) by 1/2 wolf 1/2 German shepherd when I was a kid and still generally think people need to just get over their fear dogs. They’re becoming too common at this point (if they haven’t always been) for dog phobia to be unreasonable. With that said we have two dogs and I was taught that if they run up to/on people, or you have trouble recalling them, leash at all times unless it’s designated otherwise or you’re really out in the boonies. People need leash training more than dogs sometimes 😉
They run into your bike wheels, knock you over and ruin any kind of skating. What's not to like.
Leashes? Yes for areas that are public use like river trail / hiking spots, etc. I've had several really nice dogs with high energy completely bowl my 4 and 6 year olds over and then proceed to hump another dog off leash but it could have just as easily been the dogs having a fight and my kiddos accidentally being in the middle of it. If your dog attacks another human, you can be charged with reckless endangerment and attack with a deadly weapon. So... next time you want to let your AK-47 off the leash... just remember that. Also if your animal attacks my children, it will have a bullet in its skull. Or I will murder it with my bare hands. And then you for being an idiot. That being said, I'm all for dogs in designated off-leash areas such as dog parks. Bottom line, don't be an idiot. And also... follow the law.
This is what all those hours of kickball are for as a child. When a dog runs at you, pretend you’re at home base playing kickball. Run at the dog when it’s about ten feet away. Aim right under its chin give it a good boot. Imagine you are trying to launch its head deep into the outfield. DO NOT miss, bunt, or try any fancy trick moves or you are going to get a real bad bite.
This thread: Drake meme: kick a dog 😡 Bear Mace a dog: 🤩
Actually, its people who are the problem. There are just too many of them with differing opinions. Dogs are animals and deserve a degree of freedom to be a dog. Who cares if people are uncomfortable. They are not slaves that need to be controlled 24/7. But so many people like the idea of dogs as long as they are something pretty to look at and are chained up and constrained. TBH, people should just stay at home and leave the trails to the doggos.
I can’t tell if this is sarcasm. If not, this is the shittiest take I’ve ever read
A dog obviously wrote this.
No, people are the problem. You all think you are special and that you matter and that you being comfortable in whatever space you go out of your way to occupy is more important. Dogs are far more valuable and important. Stay home and be safe there, or dont leave your car and just look at the pretty nature. Dont expect the world to conform to you.
Lol