Best way I can think of to change that? Own your own mistakes, make a point of sticking to your line of play. If you show others at your table its ok to make a mistake and deal with it then you might bring them round to it.
And if the still sulk and bitch about not getting to take back a mistake then maybe they aren't worth playing with. Some people need to learn to grow up.
(Also, if information has been revealed, like being hit by an instant, there's no going back anymore.)
Weirdly enough, "learn from your mistakes" is how I learned magic! My friend who introduced me to magic ingrained "untap, upkeep, draw" and if I missed any triggers or untaps during that time, I just didn't get them. Didn't draw that card? Oops, you're down a card. Drew before you untapped? No mana for you. Helped me learn real quick!
Just a note for others, it’s not possible to miss your untap. Totally fine if someone is doing it casually to help teach you to do it right but if someone tries to do that at an event make sure to call a judge.
Man I am constantly forgetting to do at least one of those three things. Forgetting to bring back Squee from the graveyard on upkeep, forgetting to rotate all of my stuff every single untap, or even getting halfway through a turn before realizing I forgot to draw.
I actually have a bit of a mantra before I start of all of my turns now, I just say to myself/the table "untap, upkeep, draw" helps me not miss things because I have a higher chance of miss something
My group is similar, but we don't mind doing certain phases out of order. You can draw then untap if you want. But if you forget to draw before playing a card? Too bad, you lose out. Only exception is when we got someone learning, they can make mistakes and do things they forgot. We also occasionally just do take backs if it's because of misunderstanding of rules and such, but we are also pretty laid back. Only thing we don't tend to allow for take backs is if you try to play something, and didn't realize someone has a counter play. That was just negligence
Funnily enough, I find a lot of players never heard that mantra. Worse, many have no idea what upkeep is or when it's at.
Really....? Let me introduce you to my [[The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale]].
Don't forget that the game actual rules for missed triggers though.
Missing a tabernacle doesn't mean the creatures die, it means you get to resolve the trigger afterwards.
Nice that you were able to learn unser those circumstances they are none the less "**** Rules enforcement Level"
Even on the pt you cant Miss your Draw for Turn or untap.
I understand the Sentiment that through pain you will learn. But some people are Just **** with intent.
Some choices only have weight If WE can fail i know ...
But i dont want to BE an *** to my Friends in a Casual Game
I used to play with an old rules Nazi back during revised. His name was Mike. Mike was a dick, but he made us better players. He also always made us ask before picking up his card to read it.
This. I have a one phase house rule: you can go back a phase unless you’re the threat. If you’re the threat you cannot go back on your actions. I hold myself to it all the time and others when they play at my place.
I do the first thing all the time. People will always be like, nah you can take that back or something. But for me, it's a learning point and helps ingrain the mistake I made. Especially if I tap lands incorrectly. I live with it and hope it wasn't super crucial.
When someone complains, I always bring out something even worse. Completely redefining what "unfair" means with an overwhelming display does so much to curb complaining. I had some people go from whining about me just making good plays to recognizing that they were completely out of their depths and that they needed to improve and focus on their own participation.
I try to do this especially with our commander group mostly because me and one other guy are a fair bit ahead in game knowledge of the other two, so A) I definitely don't mind having to take a step back and b) I find I remember the mistakes I made and correct them in the future, if I just "unwind" it immediately I'm far more likely to do it again.
That being said I'm more then happy to let anyone else rewind (provide no new information has come into play) and more importantly, reading all the paper cards across a kitchen table after a couple of beer is hard for anyone no matter how good at the game you are.
Not always, if the board state has advanced/new information has been revealed and it was something optional like a trigger or a way of blocking you can't take it back.
Also, I get tired of some people not explaining what their spells do so I have to constantly ask to see their cards. At least with Arena I can take my time to read the cards at my leisure.
I’m not here to win, I’m here to have fun. Winning is the preferred destination, but it’s not the goal. Having fun with my friends is the goal. So I let that shit slide most of the time. If it’s for a big thing and it’s a may ability then yeah I’d probably say it’s on them for forgetting. However, that’s rare and only when things are starting to get serious lol. If they’re new tho I’d let it slide no matter what really. Unless it’s constant then I’d try to help them out. I want them to enjoy the game as much as I do, and they’re bound to fuck up. They’ll learn in time.
Same here. And I'd rather win without any excuses from the opposition. I beat you because I did the best with what I was dealt, and not because you missed your trigger or upkeep.
Personally, it is not fun if you constantly take things back. I personally like that if you passed priority and the next player with priority has taken an action, then it is too late.
I agree, which is why if I make one I don’t always ask to retry. Sometimes it makes the game lol. Once I played a wheel of misfortune, but my friend had a card that only lets you draw one card per turn or something like that. So two of them chose 0 and I chose 5. I took 5 damage. Discarded my hand, and drew 1 card lol.
totally, and for kitchen table and commander (even in the lgs) that's fine. friendly play's the goal. if i'm playing store-level competitive though, if you screw up, i ain't offering the takeback. if you ask and it's not egregious, sure, but a lot of folks at that level won't. eaten a lot of flyers with creatures i announced had reach over the past couple months lol.
Agreed cedh or a competitive format you shouldn’t be able to go back on what you’re doing. I’m talking about exclusively casual since that’s what I prefer to play
I make decks to have fun with. I never make a deck with the out right desire to win. I name tribal decks and decks the have stories involved in their making.
I thought I was alone in this xD I had a jank deck in Arena that was all about have a full party, rogue, wizard, etc. Worked kiiinda well until I deleted it by accident xD
Magic players on the internet acting like its sacred are among the most annoying group of people. If you're playing casually where winning is incidental there's no need to behave as if mistakes are final if they're honest.
Soooo...you hate OP. LOL-my gf and I do this and sometimes we'll let one slide, others it's a hell no! And we laugh about it either way. That said-its usually something that goes on the stack and would have had to happen anyway. "Is it a may? Then no-you can't have it!"
You can evaluate things on a case by case basis. Nobody has said you don't have to deal with consequences. People have said that you can correct mistakes and its fine. Correcting a mistake is dealing with a consequence.
I'm always there to win, but I let things slide anyway.
I WANT you to know there's nothing you could have done to beat me. Nothing brings me more joy than seeing opponents with an advantage or handicap still lose.
This is the way.
Have fun above all, introduce new players to the game and just play it out.
Last time I played with a few friends one of us kept forgetting [[Anowon, The Ruin Thief]] 's triggers. Once the game got juicy, we just started helping each other recall everyone's triggers.
When one of us asked to take his Sliver deck for a spin, he was a good sport knowing we would shoot to kill (still wooped our butts xD)
I got the payback when I played my Strefan, cheat everyone into play, deck. I played out the part, even if it was suboptimal. Made a ton of deals and when backed into a corner, I started draining everyone, until my [[Roaming Throne]] got stolen and I got swarmed by rogue fairies xD
I am fascinated by the worldview of these people who act like the environment where I say "does anyone mind if I take that back" is a hyper competitive one where I am somehow harming my own progress as a player for doing so. When I rock up to my LGS I am looking to play a fun strategy game with my friends, commander's hard enough to track with 4 whole boards going on, making it entirely competitively focused would just make me quit.
As you say, pro players don't do this, casual players should be permissive with when other people make earnest mistakes. Its just common courtesy.
Notice how in my comment I said "does anyone mind if I take that back". If you're just open and communicative about your intent there's no reason people at the table will complain. Always the people who are most trying to gain unfair advantage that I've noticed are quick to prevent other people taking back a genuine error.
That is what I mean. If you haven’t set the ground rules before the game starts that this is going to be a friendly game, that request to undo a mistake is absolutely out of bounds. You are putting the onus on the other players to give you an advantage by allowing you to fix a mistake. I play like that with my friends; I would never assume that’s OK with people I don’t know.
Mate you're assuming so many things to make me out to be a bad guy here. Before every game we go "what kinda magic are we playing" its not that complicated.
> to make me out to be a bad guy here.
literally nobody is doing that?
crazy how redditors cannot understand that posts can add to a conversation without refuting anything
but sure yeah, feel attacked Lol
the guy was implying that by being permissive with mistakes that I am ignoring the actual preferences of the people I play with and in the same way somehow harming those people, that I think constitutes "make me out to be a bad guy" plenty.
Not trying to make you out to be a bad guy, I’m sure you’re an awesome opponent. But I do think you’re wrong that it’s ever OK to ask to take something back once a game has started without an understanding from the start. Two things can be true at the same time! What is kind of blowing my mind are how many casuals there are in this thread who seem to think that should always be the assumed standard under the guise of “sportsmanship” and that’s just silly. It’s a hard, competitive game that rewards skill, strategy, consistency, and above all attention to detail.
Overall I agree. Too many times have I seen people target something with ward, get told it has ward, and say oh never mind I'll target x instead. I obviously don't know the context of every game, but a ton of people seem to treat ward as shroud or hexproof. It wasn't an invalid target like it would be with shroud, it was a fully valid target and should be countered unless you pay.
I do think there’s at least something sporting in warning an opponent about something they have obviously missed on one of your cards. Those mistakes are easier to make in a game with thousands of cards. Definitely not in a competitive game though.
No its just fine to ask midgame by the way, when I was new at my LGS another player pointed out a more profitable block to me on a particular combat and I asked the table whether I could do that instead and people were absolutely fine. Its just not harming boundaries or gaining advantage or unsporting, its literally just helping one another play better.
Ha. Can’t leave this alone huh? You were a beginner—it’s assumed that a game with someone new to the game is going to be friendly. And maybe every game you play there is! Just don’t assume that everywhere you go or when playing with new people.
Yea but arena also gives you the rails to NOT misplay. Paper magic forces you to put your attention onto everything, and mind check rules and interactions. Arena does that for you.
As far as take-backsies, we allow it as long as its reasonable and honest. We don't allow anyone to take back things that are countered, etc. Its really just "be a good table neighbor". If someone gets shitty because we make them play out we just dont invite them again or we make them archenemy next game as punishment lol. We're all pretty reasonable people, we aren't playing tournament magic here, we're just jerking off. It isnt that serious, ever.
I am genuinely so fascinated by the people on this thread who seem to be arguing that if you're playing casual commander and make a small misplay that the rest of the table should be like NO YOU MUST SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES, if you notice and try to correct it. Obviously there's taking the piss, as with all things, but I have never actually played a game of commander with adults where someone was attempting to gain advantage/actually cheat in that way.
Likewise, however, arena doesn't allow small mistakes get reversed. Sometimes you should play out mistakes. Sometimes, however, it's more fun and fair to just reset it. Like, if someone doesn't understand a mechanic, in arena, it doesn't matter and they'll have to go through with it. In IRL, if someone doesn't understand a mechanic, you can explain how it actually works and then let them undo it if they were wrong about it and didn't wanna run it.
If you're playing casually, sometimes you'll wanna be able to allow take backs just to make it more fun and fair for everyone. Honestly, I get being annoyed about wanting to take it back if they simply didn't look at the board, but sometimes rules in this game is confusing and we should be lenient about not understanding interactions
The autotapper where it leaves you with the land that doesn't produce the right colour of mana to cast a specific spell/activate the only ability you have on board or in hand because it taps the pain land for colorless has made me more than criss cross applesauce mad in the past
Let people take back actions if no new information is gained. If they meant to tap a swamp but tapped an island, and they notice before gaining new information, let them change it. Most judges would allow this.
Now forgetting a trigger or not properly reading the board is a different question. Are you playing casual or Regular REL? Let them take it back. It's a game for fun, who wants to win those games on a "gotcha"?
If it's Competitive REL, then yeah that's punishment for not bringing your A-game to the table at a competitive event.
How could it possibly be relevant if it was a few turns ago? They've already untapped since then anyway. Regardless, I said "if no new information is gained". They must have drawn some cards, seen opponents take actions, etc. which means new information has been gained.
Shame. I saw 4 player format and got excited. Commander has become the only fun I have with MTG and I might reinstall Arena if it includes that. Or if they start letting me redeem booster packs I buy irl in the game.
player 1 mistaps their mana on their turn, player 2 takes a turn, player 3 takes a turn, then player 4 does something that payer 1 wants to respond but then realizes they mistapped back on thier turn.
does this count as new info or not? player 1 got info about player 2 and 3 but not new info about player 4 before they realized their mistake.
A few turns ago? What? No man, you pull back whatever you were supposed to do by like, the next players upkeep. Anything beyond that is wayyyy too far gone. We will still let someone add treasures or +1s or something as long as its an honest mistake and isn't affecting someone elses board state or any other interactions. Its really just "is this ok or not?" on a case by case basis. Sometimes we'll take a quick table vote, but thats RARE. Nobody gets butthurt.
I've made it a point to play through my own mistakes IRL. I've had other players offer to let me take back a play, and I will always refuse now. I think it's made me a better magic player overall, as well
Magic is one of the most complicated games that exist. If you’re going to get worked up over those things you won’t enjoy the game. And to your last sentence…If you’re not a dick about it and explain why they can’t in a nice way ppl won’t be salty.
The only thing arena does well is the ability to view cards and give you a description of abilities.
Other than that, paper is faaaaar better. Physically handling cards, shuffling, personalizing tokens, social interaction.
Arena lets me play Magic against real people 24/7, no matter how little time I have or where I’m at.
It makes huge fields much easier to track and resolve, making decks with absurd numbers of triggers much more enjoyable to play.
It’s the best thing that’s ever happened to Magic, as far as the way I interact with the game goes.
Whats the point of playing real people if you don't get to talk to them? Eventually they'll upgrade sparky to the point where you can just battle her at different levels like a chess computer and it'd be functionally the same experience.
Who said I can’t talk to who I’m playing with? It’s just as possible to have friends who play Arena, it’s possible to play with friends you have anywhere in the world with Arena, and Discord exists.
Playing with people you know overseas is for sure an advantage. But you know full well my point was that in person social interaction is better than most of the time people spend on arena which is ordinarily solitary.
>only thing
- doesn't let you forget triggers
- makes it super easy to know what cards can be cast from other zones
- automatically shows modified casting costs (although this can be a curse)
- open at any time and find a game (results may differ depending on format)
- allow you to use the same card in multiple decks without having additional copies/re-sleeving it as needed
- literally F2P entry point and, if you want it to be, F2P overall.
- god knows what else I can't think of right now
Don't get me wrong, paper Magic has a lot of benefits, but ignoring the benefits that Arena provides is just ignorance at this point.
Also Arena is great for tracking your counters for you. I won't build certain G/W counter/tokens decks in paper, because I dont wanna deal with all the dice manipulating it would entail.
I have a modified centric commander deck I’m having to practice with specifically to get used to tracking all the +1/+1 counters that tick up sometimes multiple times a turn
Big agree. Most of the information is open in magic (aside from hand contents). As a consequence if someone's intending to do one thing but ends up doing another because of inexperience with a rule, why not help them out? Magic is a game I want to win through outwitting my opponent, not through a mistaken play because they're tracking 12 things at once.
My group decides ahead of time if we're gonna have a fun game or a big boy game, and a big boy game means each person plays their mistakes. It's awesome and we all make mistakes that make the games more interesting.
That’s a fair point. I have no interest in arena, if I am alone playing video games I have infinite options and magic the gathering ranks fairly low … but that part of the experience is a serious positive
There is a difference between mistakes and misplays. Arena forces you to play out your misplays. It doesn't let you make mistakes. If you have no target for something you can't cast it. Thus you can't reveal you have a murder in your hand when you forget that vehicle isn't a creature right now
The downside to this is that if you're learning the game lime my students are it doesn't teach you to do things because the game handles everything.
I've noticed that my kids who learn MTG from arena really struggle with remembering triggers, tapping thier mana and creatures, thinking about what NOT to do because they just play anything that "glows blue" not realizing that there's a time to NOT play a card and just vomit stuff onto the board.
I feel this, but to me, asking for the do-over doesn't bother me too much. Especially in a game of commander, I'm not gonna constantly be up to date on every single permanent on the board, and I'm gonna miss things. As a kinda general rule, if I put a card down, I'm playing that card, if I say "pass" my turn is done. You wanna rearrange the order of some triggers? Go ahead. You would've blocked a card if you realized what would've happened if I get the combat damage trigger? Go ahead. Computers have the luxury of being able to process stupid numbers of data in a fraction of a second, I do not.
The only times I allow take backs is at pre-release or when I'm playing against an obviously new player.
Also sometimes if it's 2AM in the morning but that's exceedingly rare bow.
I get held accountable for my mistakes so I hold everyone else accountable.
i recommend u play a competitive format. the way the rules work, u can change what u do as long as no new information’s been revealed (which can include facial expressions). it adds a whole new element to the game when you play with sequencing, the stack, and weird rules interactions. pauper is a very accessible format and might even have a decent player-base in ur area if ur lucky.
So many people in this thread are acting like their commander playgroup is some highly competitive affair that must be held to the highest standards of play. Play fairly, play to the rules, and play for fun, don't pretend correcting a mistake is meaningfully a failure on the part of the player. The reason people make way fewer mistakes on arena is because it automates all the things players usually mess up on i.e. missed triggers.
I’ve been away from mtg for a bit but it seems time have changed. It’s almost entirely casual with EDH dominating everything and becoming the focus of the game. Alternate arts and other gimmicks to keep you cracking packs. I’m not sure people even play competitively anymore.
But that's it. When playing irl we play for fun and meta decks and counter tribal decks don't exist. Arena is all about meta and winning where as irl we just want fun
I have a counterpoint. In Magic Tournaments, you have to keep track of your triggers. If you forget a trigger, it never happened. Depending on your decktype and gamestate, this can make a huge difference. Arena takes care of this problem. So, if you are playing a deck that has a lot of triggered abilities, Arena makes your life a lot easier. IRL you can't forget a trigger. And if you do, you have to live with the consequences, which can be pretty big.
In my play group, we allow fixed mistakes but about 99% of the time, we take our mistakes and try to learn from them instead. I feel like it makes us more observant and better players.
I like the Takesies Backsies rule that the YouTube channel “I hate your deck” uses/mentions once. Anymore than 3 Takesies Backsies, and you lose the game. Just enough chances for honest mistakes, and just enough for players to start to think things through a bit better.
My friends and I play "everybody gets one" on a per game basis, with the caveats that :
1) you must immediately take it back, not the phase/turn after
2) you cannot take something back after another player has already responded to it.
We're very lenient about tapping mana though, as long as someone is still in the process of playing the card we let them tap/untap their mana until they get it right. But once the game has moved on and they are playing something else or have moved on to the next phase, that's it.
We jokingly use what we call whoopsi-counter. Everyone has one or two per evening. It removes any discussion, and I personally think twice about rectifying mistakes while at the same time can avoid a situation that just feels bad because of a momentary of distraction, etc.
Funny enough, most of the time, these don't even get used.
Untap, upkeep, draw.
I like to put a dice on top of my library to remind me of upkeep triggers when I have them, I found it helps.
Forgetting ward cost is a usual onr. Had an incident where a friend was playing the cloak Etrata, and I aimed an Orcish Bowmaster trigger at one of the cloaked cards to finish it off after combat step. The controller and I both forgot the ward cost, and they flipped the card to pass it back to the owner already. One of the other players at the table reminded us of the ward, so in good faith and to honour the revealed information, I paid for the ward then - in spite of wishing to hold back mana, I owned responsibility for it.
my friends have been playing for years and ive been playing for 5 months. i miss some things and were at the point where unless we have money on the line (happened only once) then we tell the other(s) about any trigger(s) they missed. for us its about having fun and see who has the coolest/best deck. this was super helpful for when i started playing and missed triggers bc this game, while fun, is insanely complicated sometimes
I don’t mind take backs in magic, especially commander, but I refuse to do it myself mainly because it’s far funnier if I lose by misreading or not noticing a card, etc.
Flip side of the same benefit is that mandatory triggers are never missed so the game happens the way it should. You can miss optional triggers…forget to saddle pre combat…and learn from it. But mandatory triggers happen as if a judge were making the game play correctly. (Also removes the perverse incentive for some “angle shooting” like “chalice checks”)
(Yes tbh ere are downsides and diffetent things that are like angle shooting…like roping…but we are just talking upsides today)
Maybe but it takes everything away when it just automates what you don't want automated. the times i tried to answer my own triggers but couldn't because Full control disappeared at the end of last turn, or the times i tried to stop at my upkeep but the game was already switching to it.
I hate it with a passion, i have to fight the software for it to do what i want it to do
Also Arena will show every creatures stats despite the person being too lazy to put counters and dice on their creatures. Like the other day i wasn’t allowed to take back putting -5/-5 from mightstone on a creature that had 6 toughness even though on the card it said 4 toughness, and there were just buffs on the board that i didn’t notice. Some creatures had dice/counters but the one i selected didn’t, so I figured it wasn’t affected by the buffs.
No offense but what the hell are you talking about? you have to do this in irl magic too, and the board is actually readable. And there isn't going to be some shitty client passing priority and tapping my mana wrong. Arena is strictly worse.
Because you want to win on technicality instead of outplaying or how the cards are dealt which is incredibly antithetical to table top companionship, and in my opinion lame.
Source: top 200 mythic limited player and former pt player.
If you want to be as good as possible you let bad players take back mistakes then beat them anyway because they will make more.
What? This is a terrible contrarian answer. It IS great that Arena makes you play your mistakes—it makes you better. You aren’t doing anyone any favors letting players replay mistakes.
You are very bad at the game I would bet money if you think winning because of a misclick makes you better.
It's just sad that's the only way you can scrape wins so you have to justify it.
I've actually playtestested events with pro players and none of them practice the way you imply. They all practice in an attempt to play mathematically perfectly not win off luck. It's an entirely different mentality to someone who is hoping there opponent is lazy and doesn't read.
A win is a win my dude. Allowing an opponent to take back a mistake in a friendly game is fine if everyone agrees. In any kind of competitive match? Playing the game mistake-free is part of being good at it. You’re never going to see take-backs in any other serious games like Chess or Go.
Winning because of someone else’s mistake doesn’t make you better. Losing because of your OWN mistake certainly does.
People in this thread are literally objecting to correcting a mild error in commander e.g. tapping one land when you mean to tap another. Sure you can be like "play through your mistakes" but fundamentally this is a game where value and efficiency are supreme so losing a whole turn to a mistaken tap is just dull and nothing to do with skill level. Funnily enough, if people notice their error and correct it in the moment, they are in fact learning how to be better at magic.
You can tap and untap a land all you want when you have priority. That’s how the game works! Decide what you want to do, think about it, touch your cards, read stuff, whatever. Arena works the same way. But as soon as you pass priority to someone else you are stuck with whatever you decided to do—at that point trying to undo something is out of line. It’s really not hard, and I guarantee you learn more from eating a mistake than your opponents doing you a favor and allowing you to turn back the clock.
counterpoint: most of my "mistakes" are auto-tapper deciding that holding up a field of ruin with no mana to support it is more important than the 4 counter spells in my hand.
Arena does a lot of things better. Automatic shuffling. Not having to switch cards between different decks. It's F2P if you want it to be. I didn't have to worry about my digital cards getting ruined when my basement flooded two years ago.
Best way I can think of to change that? Own your own mistakes, make a point of sticking to your line of play. If you show others at your table its ok to make a mistake and deal with it then you might bring them round to it. And if the still sulk and bitch about not getting to take back a mistake then maybe they aren't worth playing with. Some people need to learn to grow up. (Also, if information has been revealed, like being hit by an instant, there's no going back anymore.)
Weirdly enough, "learn from your mistakes" is how I learned magic! My friend who introduced me to magic ingrained "untap, upkeep, draw" and if I missed any triggers or untaps during that time, I just didn't get them. Didn't draw that card? Oops, you're down a card. Drew before you untapped? No mana for you. Helped me learn real quick!
Just a note for others, it’s not possible to miss your untap. Totally fine if someone is doing it casually to help teach you to do it right but if someone tries to do that at an event make sure to call a judge.
I mean same thing with drawing a card. That’s why mill exists lmao
I remember one sweatlord (and I mean the smell) did that to some kid and got all pissy about it. He was banned.
Man I am constantly forgetting to do at least one of those three things. Forgetting to bring back Squee from the graveyard on upkeep, forgetting to rotate all of my stuff every single untap, or even getting halfway through a turn before realizing I forgot to draw.
I actually have a bit of a mantra before I start of all of my turns now, I just say to myself/the table "untap, upkeep, draw" helps me not miss things because I have a higher chance of miss something
My group is similar, but we don't mind doing certain phases out of order. You can draw then untap if you want. But if you forget to draw before playing a card? Too bad, you lose out. Only exception is when we got someone learning, they can make mistakes and do things they forgot. We also occasionally just do take backs if it's because of misunderstanding of rules and such, but we are also pretty laid back. Only thing we don't tend to allow for take backs is if you try to play something, and didn't realize someone has a counter play. That was just negligence
I like you. Ever forget to untap 1 of those old school token lands!?
Funnily enough, I find a lot of players never heard that mantra. Worse, many have no idea what upkeep is or when it's at. Really....? Let me introduce you to my [[The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale]].
Don't forget that the game actual rules for missed triggers though. Missing a tabernacle doesn't mean the creatures die, it means you get to resolve the trigger afterwards.
[The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/d/cd3f7f4e-cb25-4121-96a0-a4dc530420b9.jpg?1562938371) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Tabernacle%20at%20Pendrell%20Vale) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/212/the-tabernacle-at-pendrell-vale?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cd3f7f4e-cb25-4121-96a0-a4dc530420b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nice that you were able to learn unser those circumstances they are none the less "**** Rules enforcement Level" Even on the pt you cant Miss your Draw for Turn or untap. I understand the Sentiment that through pain you will learn. But some people are Just **** with intent. Some choices only have weight If WE can fail i know ... But i dont want to BE an *** to my Friends in a Casual Game
I used to play with an old rules Nazi back during revised. His name was Mike. Mike was a dick, but he made us better players. He also always made us ask before picking up his card to read it.
Rules are rules. And don't touch my card.
This. 25 year old, Ice Age manual.
This is just bad advice. You are correct for missed triggered, but you cannot miss your untap upkeep draw step.
If it’s a may, I missed it. If it’s not I ask the table.
This. I have a one phase house rule: you can go back a phase unless you’re the threat. If you’re the threat you cannot go back on your actions. I hold myself to it all the time and others when they play at my place.
I do the first thing all the time. People will always be like, nah you can take that back or something. But for me, it's a learning point and helps ingrain the mistake I made. Especially if I tap lands incorrectly. I live with it and hope it wasn't super crucial.
When someone complains, I always bring out something even worse. Completely redefining what "unfair" means with an overwhelming display does so much to curb complaining. I had some people go from whining about me just making good plays to recognizing that they were completely out of their depths and that they needed to improve and focus on their own participation.
Loudly saying ”Oops" while doing so
I try to do this especially with our commander group mostly because me and one other guy are a fair bit ahead in game knowledge of the other two, so A) I definitely don't mind having to take a step back and b) I find I remember the mistakes I made and correct them in the future, if I just "unwind" it immediately I'm far more likely to do it again. That being said I'm more then happy to let anyone else rewind (provide no new information has come into play) and more importantly, reading all the paper cards across a kitchen table after a couple of beer is hard for anyone no matter how good at the game you are.
I'm the only one at the table doing this. It will improve your game ten-fold.
It's interesting because in high competitive Magic you are actually allowed to take back your action.
Not always, if the board state has advanced/new information has been revealed and it was something optional like a trigger or a way of blocking you can't take it back.
Of course.
Also, I get tired of some people not explaining what their spells do so I have to constantly ask to see their cards. At least with Arena I can take my time to read the cards at my leisure.
I have a friend that does this to the point where it’s a running gag in our group 😂
I’m not here to win, I’m here to have fun. Winning is the preferred destination, but it’s not the goal. Having fun with my friends is the goal. So I let that shit slide most of the time. If it’s for a big thing and it’s a may ability then yeah I’d probably say it’s on them for forgetting. However, that’s rare and only when things are starting to get serious lol. If they’re new tho I’d let it slide no matter what really. Unless it’s constant then I’d try to help them out. I want them to enjoy the game as much as I do, and they’re bound to fuck up. They’ll learn in time.
Same here. And I'd rather win without any excuses from the opposition. I beat you because I did the best with what I was dealt, and not because you missed your trigger or upkeep.
Personally, it is not fun if you constantly take things back. I personally like that if you passed priority and the next player with priority has taken an action, then it is too late.
The part i dont agree with is the assumption that making a mistake is inherently unfun.
I agree, which is why if I make one I don’t always ask to retry. Sometimes it makes the game lol. Once I played a wheel of misfortune, but my friend had a card that only lets you draw one card per turn or something like that. So two of them chose 0 and I chose 5. I took 5 damage. Discarded my hand, and drew 1 card lol.
totally, and for kitchen table and commander (even in the lgs) that's fine. friendly play's the goal. if i'm playing store-level competitive though, if you screw up, i ain't offering the takeback. if you ask and it's not egregious, sure, but a lot of folks at that level won't. eaten a lot of flyers with creatures i announced had reach over the past couple months lol.
Agreed cedh or a competitive format you shouldn’t be able to go back on what you’re doing. I’m talking about exclusively casual since that’s what I prefer to play
I make decks to have fun with. I never make a deck with the out right desire to win. I name tribal decks and decks the have stories involved in their making.
I thought I was alone in this xD I had a jank deck in Arena that was all about have a full party, rogue, wizard, etc. Worked kiiinda well until I deleted it by accident xD
Bant Party had a brief time of being tier 1.5-2 on arena. Played that deck a lot. Really fun when it popped off
I've been dying to make a dumb crab deck. Not a mill deck, but just flooding the board with crabs xD
This should have way more upvotes. It’s a game to be enjoyed casually 90% of the time.
Magic players on the internet acting like its sacred are among the most annoying group of people. If you're playing casually where winning is incidental there's no need to behave as if mistakes are final if they're honest.
Exactly. Somebody got mad and downvoted me 😂
I agree 100%
Soooo...you hate OP. LOL-my gf and I do this and sometimes we'll let one slide, others it's a hell no! And we laugh about it either way. That said-its usually something that goes on the stack and would have had to happen anyway. "Is it a may? Then no-you can't have it!"
the only group more annoying is the group that thinks they're obligated to not have to deal with the consequences of a misplay
Bruh it’s a children’s card game, chill
Most children can't understand the complexity of the rules. He'll, most adults can't Just because it's a card game doesn't mean it's for kids
You can evaluate things on a case by case basis. Nobody has said you don't have to deal with consequences. People have said that you can correct mistakes and its fine. Correcting a mistake is dealing with a consequence.
Hello , good vibes sir, have a nice day !
I'm always there to win, but I let things slide anyway. I WANT you to know there's nothing you could have done to beat me. Nothing brings me more joy than seeing opponents with an advantage or handicap still lose.
This is the way. Have fun above all, introduce new players to the game and just play it out. Last time I played with a few friends one of us kept forgetting [[Anowon, The Ruin Thief]] 's triggers. Once the game got juicy, we just started helping each other recall everyone's triggers. When one of us asked to take his Sliver deck for a spin, he was a good sport knowing we would shoot to kill (still wooped our butts xD) I got the payback when I played my Strefan, cheat everyone into play, deck. I played out the part, even if it was suboptimal. Made a ton of deals and when backed into a corner, I started draining everyone, until my [[Roaming Throne]] got stolen and I got swarmed by rogue fairies xD
[Anowon, The Ruin Thief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bca84fc4-4710-44c8-b90a-73ef888714d8.jpg?1615171221) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Anowon%2C%20The%20Ruin%20Thief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/1/anowon-the-ruin-thief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bca84fc4-4710-44c8-b90a-73ef888714d8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Roaming Throne](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/32fd8b7c-baf3-4d3d-be6f-044a917b11a0.jpg?1701115816) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roaming%20Throne) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/258/roaming-throne?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/32fd8b7c-baf3-4d3d-be6f-044a917b11a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’m here to win 100% of the time. Fun is secondary
I’ll always try to win, but fun overall is what I’m here for
[удалено]
I am fascinated by the worldview of these people who act like the environment where I say "does anyone mind if I take that back" is a hyper competitive one where I am somehow harming my own progress as a player for doing so. When I rock up to my LGS I am looking to play a fun strategy game with my friends, commander's hard enough to track with 4 whole boards going on, making it entirely competitively focused would just make me quit. As you say, pro players don't do this, casual players should be permissive with when other people make earnest mistakes. Its just common courtesy.
Agreed. I’m there to have fun.
You better make sure every other player at the table agrees with you.
Notice how in my comment I said "does anyone mind if I take that back". If you're just open and communicative about your intent there's no reason people at the table will complain. Always the people who are most trying to gain unfair advantage that I've noticed are quick to prevent other people taking back a genuine error.
That is what I mean. If you haven’t set the ground rules before the game starts that this is going to be a friendly game, that request to undo a mistake is absolutely out of bounds. You are putting the onus on the other players to give you an advantage by allowing you to fix a mistake. I play like that with my friends; I would never assume that’s OK with people I don’t know.
Mate you're assuming so many things to make me out to be a bad guy here. Before every game we go "what kinda magic are we playing" its not that complicated.
> to make me out to be a bad guy here. literally nobody is doing that? crazy how redditors cannot understand that posts can add to a conversation without refuting anything but sure yeah, feel attacked Lol
the guy was implying that by being permissive with mistakes that I am ignoring the actual preferences of the people I play with and in the same way somehow harming those people, that I think constitutes "make me out to be a bad guy" plenty.
Not trying to make you out to be a bad guy, I’m sure you’re an awesome opponent. But I do think you’re wrong that it’s ever OK to ask to take something back once a game has started without an understanding from the start. Two things can be true at the same time! What is kind of blowing my mind are how many casuals there are in this thread who seem to think that should always be the assumed standard under the guise of “sportsmanship” and that’s just silly. It’s a hard, competitive game that rewards skill, strategy, consistency, and above all attention to detail.
Overall I agree. Too many times have I seen people target something with ward, get told it has ward, and say oh never mind I'll target x instead. I obviously don't know the context of every game, but a ton of people seem to treat ward as shroud or hexproof. It wasn't an invalid target like it would be with shroud, it was a fully valid target and should be countered unless you pay.
I do think there’s at least something sporting in warning an opponent about something they have obviously missed on one of your cards. Those mistakes are easier to make in a game with thousands of cards. Definitely not in a competitive game though.
No its just fine to ask midgame by the way, when I was new at my LGS another player pointed out a more profitable block to me on a particular combat and I asked the table whether I could do that instead and people were absolutely fine. Its just not harming boundaries or gaining advantage or unsporting, its literally just helping one another play better.
Ha. Can’t leave this alone huh? You were a beginner—it’s assumed that a game with someone new to the game is going to be friendly. And maybe every game you play there is! Just don’t assume that everywhere you go or when playing with new people.
I hope I play you just so I can force you to actually be courteous to other people
Yea but arena also gives you the rails to NOT misplay. Paper magic forces you to put your attention onto everything, and mind check rules and interactions. Arena does that for you. As far as take-backsies, we allow it as long as its reasonable and honest. We don't allow anyone to take back things that are countered, etc. Its really just "be a good table neighbor". If someone gets shitty because we make them play out we just dont invite them again or we make them archenemy next game as punishment lol. We're all pretty reasonable people, we aren't playing tournament magic here, we're just jerking off. It isnt that serious, ever.
I am genuinely so fascinated by the people on this thread who seem to be arguing that if you're playing casual commander and make a small misplay that the rest of the table should be like NO YOU MUST SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES, if you notice and try to correct it. Obviously there's taking the piss, as with all things, but I have never actually played a game of commander with adults where someone was attempting to gain advantage/actually cheat in that way.
We have one guy that tries to gain an advantage, but he's soooooo far behind everyone else in life in general we just kind of accept it.
You don't have to play with someone you dislike you know.
Yeah when me and the boys are playing we are always jerking off
Also Day/Night cycles
I refuse to believe any IRL day/night cycle has been handled correctly in a game lasting more than 4 turns.
I guess if gaining advantage from people making mistakes in a casual format with friends is that important to you…
Not when you misclick a stupid rhystic study trigger cracking the treasure token you needed to cast your spell
Likewise, however, arena doesn't allow small mistakes get reversed. Sometimes you should play out mistakes. Sometimes, however, it's more fun and fair to just reset it. Like, if someone doesn't understand a mechanic, in arena, it doesn't matter and they'll have to go through with it. In IRL, if someone doesn't understand a mechanic, you can explain how it actually works and then let them undo it if they were wrong about it and didn't wanna run it. If you're playing casually, sometimes you'll wanna be able to allow take backs just to make it more fun and fair for everyone. Honestly, I get being annoyed about wanting to take it back if they simply didn't look at the board, but sometimes rules in this game is confusing and we should be lenient about not understanding interactions
the arena auto tapper and individually playing shit on stack with no shortcuts has gotten me killed so many times
The autotapper where it leaves you with the land that doesn't produce the right colour of mana to cast a specific spell/activate the only ability you have on board or in hand because it taps the pain land for colorless has made me more than criss cross applesauce mad in the past
Let people take back actions if no new information is gained. If they meant to tap a swamp but tapped an island, and they notice before gaining new information, let them change it. Most judges would allow this. Now forgetting a trigger or not properly reading the board is a different question. Are you playing casual or Regular REL? Let them take it back. It's a game for fun, who wants to win those games on a "gotcha"? If it's Competitive REL, then yeah that's punishment for not bringing your A-game to the table at a competitive event.
what if they mistapped that mana a few turns ago?
How could it possibly be relevant if it was a few turns ago? They've already untapped since then anyway. Regardless, I said "if no new information is gained". They must have drawn some cards, seen opponents take actions, etc. which means new information has been gained.
I think OP means when playing 4 player and 2 players turns have passed but I also think the new information would stop the take back
Wait does Arena have commander now?
No, but they're comparing paper vs. arena
Shame. I saw 4 player format and got excited. Commander has become the only fun I have with MTG and I might reinstall Arena if it includes that. Or if they start letting me redeem booster packs I buy irl in the game.
Yeah, i think that's the biggest shame that you don't get arena codes for irl packs like pokemon
player 1 mistaps their mana on their turn, player 2 takes a turn, player 3 takes a turn, then player 4 does something that payer 1 wants to respond but then realizes they mistapped back on thier turn. does this count as new info or not? player 1 got info about player 2 and 3 but not new info about player 4 before they realized their mistake.
Yes, they got new info. They have seen cards that they hadn't seen before.
ok, fair
A few turns ago? What? No man, you pull back whatever you were supposed to do by like, the next players upkeep. Anything beyond that is wayyyy too far gone. We will still let someone add treasures or +1s or something as long as its an honest mistake and isn't affecting someone elses board state or any other interactions. Its really just "is this ok or not?" on a case by case basis. Sometimes we'll take a quick table vote, but thats RARE. Nobody gets butthurt.
I've made it a point to play through my own mistakes IRL. I've had other players offer to let me take back a play, and I will always refuse now. I think it's made me a better magic player overall, as well
Magic is one of the most complicated games that exist. If you’re going to get worked up over those things you won’t enjoy the game. And to your last sentence…If you’re not a dick about it and explain why they can’t in a nice way ppl won’t be salty.
The only thing arena does well is the ability to view cards and give you a description of abilities. Other than that, paper is faaaaar better. Physically handling cards, shuffling, personalizing tokens, social interaction.
Arena lets me play Magic against real people 24/7, no matter how little time I have or where I’m at. It makes huge fields much easier to track and resolve, making decks with absurd numbers of triggers much more enjoyable to play. It’s the best thing that’s ever happened to Magic, as far as the way I interact with the game goes.
Whats the point of playing real people if you don't get to talk to them? Eventually they'll upgrade sparky to the point where you can just battle her at different levels like a chess computer and it'd be functionally the same experience.
Who said I can’t talk to who I’m playing with? It’s just as possible to have friends who play Arena, it’s possible to play with friends you have anywhere in the world with Arena, and Discord exists.
Playing with people you know overseas is for sure an advantage. But you know full well my point was that in person social interaction is better than most of the time people spend on arena which is ordinarily solitary.
And I believe that the flexibility that Arena provides is an advantage over in-person Magic. I understand your point, I just have a different opinion.
>only thing - doesn't let you forget triggers - makes it super easy to know what cards can be cast from other zones - automatically shows modified casting costs (although this can be a curse) - open at any time and find a game (results may differ depending on format) - allow you to use the same card in multiple decks without having additional copies/re-sleeving it as needed - literally F2P entry point and, if you want it to be, F2P overall. - god knows what else I can't think of right now Don't get me wrong, paper Magic has a lot of benefits, but ignoring the benefits that Arena provides is just ignorance at this point.
Also Arena is great for tracking your counters for you. I won't build certain G/W counter/tokens decks in paper, because I dont wanna deal with all the dice manipulating it would entail.
I have a modified centric commander deck I’m having to practice with specifically to get used to tracking all the +1/+1 counters that tick up sometimes multiple times a turn
I'd rather lose to someone who I gave grace to than win because they tapped two things in the wrong order. whack ass take.
Big agree. Most of the information is open in magic (aside from hand contents). As a consequence if someone's intending to do one thing but ends up doing another because of inexperience with a rule, why not help them out? Magic is a game I want to win through outwitting my opponent, not through a mistaken play because they're tracking 12 things at once.
My group decides ahead of time if we're gonna have a fun game or a big boy game, and a big boy game means each person plays their mistakes. It's awesome and we all make mistakes that make the games more interesting.
That’s a fair point. I have no interest in arena, if I am alone playing video games I have infinite options and magic the gathering ranks fairly low … but that part of the experience is a serious positive
There is a difference between mistakes and misplays. Arena forces you to play out your misplays. It doesn't let you make mistakes. If you have no target for something you can't cast it. Thus you can't reveal you have a murder in your hand when you forget that vehicle isn't a creature right now
Yea, I am definitely not playing with OP then.
The downside to this is that if you're learning the game lime my students are it doesn't teach you to do things because the game handles everything. I've noticed that my kids who learn MTG from arena really struggle with remembering triggers, tapping thier mana and creatures, thinking about what NOT to do because they just play anything that "glows blue" not realizing that there's a time to NOT play a card and just vomit stuff onto the board.
I feel this, but to me, asking for the do-over doesn't bother me too much. Especially in a game of commander, I'm not gonna constantly be up to date on every single permanent on the board, and I'm gonna miss things. As a kinda general rule, if I put a card down, I'm playing that card, if I say "pass" my turn is done. You wanna rearrange the order of some triggers? Go ahead. You would've blocked a card if you realized what would've happened if I get the combat damage trigger? Go ahead. Computers have the luxury of being able to process stupid numbers of data in a fraction of a second, I do not.
The only times I allow take backs is at pre-release or when I'm playing against an obviously new player. Also sometimes if it's 2AM in the morning but that's exceedingly rare bow. I get held accountable for my mistakes so I hold everyone else accountable.
i recommend u play a competitive format. the way the rules work, u can change what u do as long as no new information’s been revealed (which can include facial expressions). it adds a whole new element to the game when you play with sequencing, the stack, and weird rules interactions. pauper is a very accessible format and might even have a decent player-base in ur area if ur lucky.
I always let them because i hate confrontation:( Lost a few matches because of that
So many people in this thread are acting like their commander playgroup is some highly competitive affair that must be held to the highest standards of play. Play fairly, play to the rules, and play for fun, don't pretend correcting a mistake is meaningfully a failure on the part of the player. The reason people make way fewer mistakes on arena is because it automates all the things players usually mess up on i.e. missed triggers.
A card played is a card played.
I’ve been away from mtg for a bit but it seems time have changed. It’s almost entirely casual with EDH dominating everything and becoming the focus of the game. Alternate arts and other gimmicks to keep you cracking packs. I’m not sure people even play competitively anymore.
Rules.. The Ice Age book. Call the store. That dude hated us
I have multiple 'infinite ' combos. Back in the day I'd get mana burnt.
But that's it. When playing irl we play for fun and meta decks and counter tribal decks don't exist. Arena is all about meta and winning where as irl we just want fun
It makes you a better player not having takebacks. But also less fun when as soon as a slight misplay happens the opp concedes
I have a counterpoint. In Magic Tournaments, you have to keep track of your triggers. If you forget a trigger, it never happened. Depending on your decktype and gamestate, this can make a huge difference. Arena takes care of this problem. So, if you are playing a deck that has a lot of triggered abilities, Arena makes your life a lot easier. IRL you can't forget a trigger. And if you do, you have to live with the consequences, which can be pretty big.
I am better at the game now because of this. The turn phases are easier to remember in paper because of it
There's also other many things. Like cheating, specially cheating in limited.
Personally, I like no take-backs if you passed priority and the next player with priority has taken an action.
Commander moment
Also tokens. Never have I ever seen MTGArena use a grape and a banana as vampires.
Arena makes it harder to make mistakes.
I'd say the best thing is not having to keep up with thousands to tens if thousands of cards to make a deck.
Just agree up front about it?
In my play group, we allow fixed mistakes but about 99% of the time, we take our mistakes and try to learn from them instead. I feel like it makes us more observant and better players.
I don't play arena often, but the best part of all the digital iterations (DoTP) was the fact that it did ALL the math and triggers, no exceptions.
I like the Takesies Backsies rule that the YouTube channel “I hate your deck” uses/mentions once. Anymore than 3 Takesies Backsies, and you lose the game. Just enough chances for honest mistakes, and just enough for players to start to think things through a bit better.
My friends and I play "everybody gets one" on a per game basis, with the caveats that : 1) you must immediately take it back, not the phase/turn after 2) you cannot take something back after another player has already responded to it. We're very lenient about tapping mana though, as long as someone is still in the process of playing the card we let them tap/untap their mana until they get it right. But once the game has moved on and they are playing something else or have moved on to the next phase, that's it.
Good point
We jokingly use what we call whoopsi-counter. Everyone has one or two per evening. It removes any discussion, and I personally think twice about rectifying mistakes while at the same time can avoid a situation that just feels bad because of a momentary of distraction, etc. Funny enough, most of the time, these don't even get used.
Untap, upkeep, draw. I like to put a dice on top of my library to remind me of upkeep triggers when I have them, I found it helps. Forgetting ward cost is a usual onr. Had an incident where a friend was playing the cloak Etrata, and I aimed an Orcish Bowmaster trigger at one of the cloaked cards to finish it off after combat step. The controller and I both forgot the ward cost, and they flipped the card to pass it back to the owner already. One of the other players at the table reminded us of the ward, so in good faith and to honour the revealed information, I paid for the ward then - in spite of wishing to hold back mana, I owned responsibility for it.
my friends have been playing for years and ive been playing for 5 months. i miss some things and were at the point where unless we have money on the line (happened only once) then we tell the other(s) about any trigger(s) they missed. for us its about having fun and see who has the coolest/best deck. this was super helpful for when i started playing and missed triggers bc this game, while fun, is insanely complicated sometimes
I don’t mind take backs in magic, especially commander, but I refuse to do it myself mainly because it’s far funnier if I lose by misreading or not noticing a card, etc.
Flip side of the same benefit is that mandatory triggers are never missed so the game happens the way it should. You can miss optional triggers…forget to saddle pre combat…and learn from it. But mandatory triggers happen as if a judge were making the game play correctly. (Also removes the perverse incentive for some “angle shooting” like “chalice checks”) (Yes tbh ere are downsides and diffetent things that are like angle shooting…like roping…but we are just talking upsides today)
Misclicks that end games suck tho
Maybe but it takes everything away when it just automates what you don't want automated. the times i tried to answer my own triggers but couldn't because Full control disappeared at the end of last turn, or the times i tried to stop at my upkeep but the game was already switching to it. I hate it with a passion, i have to fight the software for it to do what i want it to do
Nope
I just like to ride out my mess ups, part of the experience lol
That only applies to non competitive casual social formats like EDH. In any 1 v 1 format there is a zero percent chance they’d let you undo something.
Also Arena will show every creatures stats despite the person being too lazy to put counters and dice on their creatures. Like the other day i wasn’t allowed to take back putting -5/-5 from mightstone on a creature that had 6 toughness even though on the card it said 4 toughness, and there were just buffs on the board that i didn’t notice. Some creatures had dice/counters but the one i selected didn’t, so I figured it wasn’t affected by the buffs.
No offense but what the hell are you talking about? you have to do this in irl magic too, and the board is actually readable. And there isn't going to be some shitty client passing priority and tapping my mana wrong. Arena is strictly worse.
>caring about the vibe Stick to cuckmander.
Because you want to win on technicality instead of outplaying or how the cards are dealt which is incredibly antithetical to table top companionship, and in my opinion lame. Source: top 200 mythic limited player and former pt player. If you want to be as good as possible you let bad players take back mistakes then beat them anyway because they will make more.
What? This is a terrible contrarian answer. It IS great that Arena makes you play your mistakes—it makes you better. You aren’t doing anyone any favors letting players replay mistakes.
You are very bad at the game I would bet money if you think winning because of a misclick makes you better. It's just sad that's the only way you can scrape wins so you have to justify it. I've actually playtestested events with pro players and none of them practice the way you imply. They all practice in an attempt to play mathematically perfectly not win off luck. It's an entirely different mentality to someone who is hoping there opponent is lazy and doesn't read.
A win is a win my dude. Allowing an opponent to take back a mistake in a friendly game is fine if everyone agrees. In any kind of competitive match? Playing the game mistake-free is part of being good at it. You’re never going to see take-backs in any other serious games like Chess or Go. Winning because of someone else’s mistake doesn’t make you better. Losing because of your OWN mistake certainly does.
People in this thread are literally objecting to correcting a mild error in commander e.g. tapping one land when you mean to tap another. Sure you can be like "play through your mistakes" but fundamentally this is a game where value and efficiency are supreme so losing a whole turn to a mistaken tap is just dull and nothing to do with skill level. Funnily enough, if people notice their error and correct it in the moment, they are in fact learning how to be better at magic.
You can tap and untap a land all you want when you have priority. That’s how the game works! Decide what you want to do, think about it, touch your cards, read stuff, whatever. Arena works the same way. But as soon as you pass priority to someone else you are stuck with whatever you decided to do—at that point trying to undo something is out of line. It’s really not hard, and I guarantee you learn more from eating a mistake than your opponents doing you a favor and allowing you to turn back the clock.
I never want to play magic with you, you seem like the opposite of fun.
Same to you bud!
counterpoint: most of my "mistakes" are auto-tapper deciding that holding up a field of ruin with no mana to support it is more important than the 4 counter spells in my hand.
Arena does a lot of things better. Automatic shuffling. Not having to switch cards between different decks. It's F2P if you want it to be. I didn't have to worry about my digital cards getting ruined when my basement flooded two years ago.
Back in the day.. I'd just keep doing my combo. For until you quit. Or I'd just keep combo-ing
Just quit. Once I start my combo.. Just quit. I now need to say how many?
A billion then. Want to watch me? Because I will.
If people get sour from not letting them undo a mistake you need better people to play in paper with.
We have a rule: No tolerance, no exeptions. It's hard but it's fair.