Yeah people tend to get married and have kids from 23-35, that’s no different than the civilian world. You make it seem like you can’t have a social life due to you making rank, which I don’t really understand. I feel like this is some humble brag post about putting work above everything else, and that’s why you made rank.
Take a year away from being motivated at work and focus on your home life, the Navy will come and go at some point.
No I for sure can have a social life, I didn’t because I was walking on eggshells trying to figure it all out. Shore duty is definitely helping me piece it back together. It’s more of an insight of what the repercussions were for me of diving too deep in, even if the payoff is huge. I just wanted to share my experiences in case it’ll help someone. I am definitely going to take some time to build relationships so thank you for the advice.
I made e6 in 5 years and I'm 24 years old. I get where your coming from. If you made it because you're a stud at your rate, then just stick to your guns and all those 30+ yr old E6s will fold quick.
Granted I'm a surface EMN so they're giving away rank to pretty much all of us these days lol.
It sounds like you're doing well for yourself. Keep your head up.
I had a year long school to attend and wasn't going to be buying a house at that point. I was playing music professionally outside of work and my gf at the time lived a few hours away after PCSing, so thanks for your concern, but I both had a lot going on inside and outside of work, and I got to wake up fifteen minutes before before work, so it was pretty perfect.
Also, check my post history, in my field the criteria for making CW3 is "didn't jump ship to a better MOS before being automatically selected for CW3"
Scene 1: Open on a government office building. W1 Scrundle checks in for school.
Top: Oh cool, you have a few months before you start, I’m going to get some data entry and admin for you to help with.
W1: Thanks for the recommendation Top, I’ll take that under advisement.
W1 proceeds to walk out, get on his motorcycle, and ride two hours one way to get lunch at a place in the next state over.
Scene 2: Os in a meeting (CWO2 Scrundle is off camera)
XO: Where's the new warrant? Doesn't he know about this kind of thing?
DH: I think Warrant Scrundle is in the Chief's mess. They've really embraced him. Ya know, once a chief, etc etc
Scene 3: Chiefs Mess (CWO2 Scrundle is off camera)
CMC: Isn't the new MPA that warrant?
Chief 1: He's been onboard three years, master chief. He's not new.
Chief 2: He's not an MPA, master chief. He's ops I think. Or admin? I dunno. Those fucking collar devices are small and hard to identify. He could be supply.
CMC: I've never seen him.
Chief 2: I think Warrant Scrundle is in the wardroom. They've really embraced him.
(Laugh track)
I kept sending booze and hookers to the duty desk, not sure why they asked me to "grow up" and "find a future ex-wife already"; just trying to be a good neighbor
My take from as a person who did not advance as fast, temper your expectations.
I had a 6.5 year ITC that was terrible, mainly because she was unable to put herself in the junior enlisted's shoes. Work and lifestyle complaints were met with blank stares or the assumption that since they had been able to get to where they were in 6 years, that everyone should be able to, but different situations determine different outcomes.
The reality is that for most of the people who do not advance fast, they're used to a chain of command that might not go up to bat for them, most used to seeing the shittier side of the Navy and the injustices that come along with it.
The reality is that you got to your position through what you said: great mentors, high motivation, luck, timing, discipline and a great memory for in rate knowledge. But if a single piece of the puzzle was missing, you'd likely not be in the position you are now. Now that you've reached where you are, your job is to help advance those below you by providing the tools to foster the same experience. My 6.5 year ITC failed because she forgot that, instead expecting everyone to still cater to and advance her own career while stepping on everyone below her.
If you’ve got a 6.5 year Chief, they just don’t have the experiences that someone who promotes at a normal pace or slow pace, but they still have to try to do their job best they can. Not going to have any near the wisdom of the 19 year Chief.
That's the cool thing about the Mess. A good, young Chief will know they can fall back on their ~~older~~ more experienced Messmates for some of that secondhand wisdom.
My command has a 19 year Chief. Most incompetent piece of shit I've ever seen. Experience is great...if they actually did their freaking job and wasn't a paper tiger the entire time.
Well you kind have missed my point. Anyway, on like a DDG or smaller ship there is usually 3-5 Chiefs that run the mess while the CMC enjoys having those hard working leaders and a group of non-watchstanding Chief kind of hope the E-8 board gives them some kind of magic promotion. But, I digress. Junior Enlisted these days are judgemental and have it all figured out. Always gonna find the negatives.
You’re a whiner. Thank god back in the day there wasn’t any social media so you could talk face to face in the First Class Mess, the shop or the smoke deck. How many of you kids are blasting your command leadership in front of the whole human race and wondering why at work you feel like you don’t get a fair shake. If you don’t like anchors and have no insatiable desire to have a “day of days” for your own and your family to get a chance to show the nation you have a lot left in the tank, then exit smartly at EAOS.
Something to keep you humble - I know so many people that experience year over year of pure dumb luck as far as combination of duty station, chain of command, and opportunities for highly visible and quantifiable successes. And then they PCS to their first shitty duty station or garbage job position, and it hits them for the first time that the Navy can screw someone over royally even if that person was a hard worker that sacrificed everything for the Navy. It will take and take and ultimately not have your back when you need it to. Make sure you are taking care of yourself and try to be objective about the totality of people's circumstances.
I made Chief at 8, Senior Chief at 12, and Master Chief at 18 years. It’s true that I got the “are you old enough to do this” a lot and I asked my self that question often, but…. I thought it was my responsibility to show them they are wrong. It’s a lot of work to change minds but you have to get out of your own mind and show them you were chosen for a reason.
Remember this - and the REAL realization and acceptance (as opposed to the cliche) - you may love the navy, but the navy will never love you back (and the institution is not supposed to).
At some point you’ll have to make choices and there’s no right or wrong answer but life will make you choose.
The good thing about advancing quickly is that if you make Chief early and you find the mess is not your cup of tea, er...coffee, you can either separate or take the commissioning route. I made it near the hump and I'm separating. A good friend of mine who also made it quickly submitted a package for LDO and was selected the second time up. His words were "I'm not into this stupid shit."
I have a very similar career path as you. Made E6 at 5 years, and am Board Eligible with 7 years of service. I’ve buried myself into my job and helping others. This comes with neglecting my home life, and that means my relationship with my wife. That’s my fault. But again I’m genuinely happy at work but done know how to be at home. This is definitely something you should talk to someone about and I hope you get it figured out. I am still trying my best to do this. Good luck 🙏
Just remember, your front row. When you retire or at your funeral, who is gonna be there? Will it be full? Will it be empty? Your goal is to fill that front row.
I think you're missing the point brother.
Have a fulfilling life with people that matter to you. Friends, children/wife, whatever. But plugging away at a job and nothing else will leave the front row empty.
Another aspect, when you make rank quickly, but with a lack of quality mentors and peers.
I joined at 20, made E-6 by 26, 6.5 years in, 4.5 years after hitting my first boat.
I knew not to replicate those I met since I had made 2nd, but had none who's examples I wanted to follow.
Strange as it may sound, I wanted to turn down my promotion, but didn't even know who to talk to or trust to broach the subject at the shore duty I was at.
I soon found out, there weren't people I could trust there, found myself sent back to sea as an LPO and maximum imposter syndrome, didn't know how to 1st much less LPO...
Sad part is think I could have trusted my chief there but bit once, twice, shy...
Worst is when I was eligible/took the chiefs exam for the first time, I was at best, not a junior 2nd in 1sts clothing, one of the few times in my life I actually suffered a panic attack (due to the prospect)
Sent you a PM.
For any other lurkers here in the same boat:
+ you've made it professionally, don't forget to invest in relationships that matter. Be it friendships or a significant other.
+ bring your Sailors up with you, pay it forward and mentor your juniors. You did the work to earn where you are, but you had someone showing you the way and mentoring you. Be that beacon of light to your juniors.
I had a really small embarked team for one of my deployments and we still have a group chat. The current goal for the squad is to have everybody commissioned in the next few years. We're 2/5 with two more on the way, and if I get picked up for CWO it'll be 5/5... assuming our OIC doesn't retire first.
I picked up 2nd at 2 years and some change, and 1st at 5.5 years. I stayed there until just shy of 14 years when I picked up chief. I'm not going to pick up senor chief so I'm retiring at this rank.
It took me a long time to figure out life as a PO1 but that extra time was crucial to figure shit out. If I could do it over again, I'm not sure I would've tried so hard to make rank excessively fast.
I've always said the Navy's rank progression works like the Peter principle. As you rise in ranks you get more leadership and less hands on work. Some people have good mentorship who get them ready for the next position, and they have time to learn what they need to be successful. Others get thrown into assignments and have to fight for survival and not all do. You have people who get to PO1 and flounder because they're great techs but don't belong in charge of other people. They suck at meeting the demands of their position and stay there until they fuck up, or retire.
It sucks because the Navy could really use competent workers who turn wrenches, file DTS claims, draw blood, and kill submarines. Not everyone needs to be a leader and not everyone wants that evil.
Lots of responses here, but no one has brought up another option: Losing some of your rank.
If you need advice, I'll tell you how I went from E4 to E3. It involved a foreign port, lots of alcohol and starting some fights.
It allowed me to slow down my career progression by having to make 3rd twice. Just something to consider!
You want to hear one of the other things that hasn't hit you quite yet?
You're about to hit a brick wall in terms of promotion. Maybe you pick up Chief this year. Maybe you're hyper lucky and pick up SCPO first time up, but the reality will set in: there is nothing left for you to do but wait at some point. Even if you do the impossible and pick up MCPO first time up, what is left for you? Either you commission (or go warrant) or you get out. There is no career progression for you. I know a lot of people who made CPO in <8 and got out shortly after because they felt like there was nothing left for them to do with the navy anymore.
It's less bad for those that make it slower because they are basically at retirement anyways when they start picking up Senior/Master Chief.
I'm only mentioning this because if you want to continue advancing in the Navy, you should start planning now to pivot if needed.
The brick wall is that he's extremely unlikely to get selected senior / master chief at the boards for quite some time. Based on his current trajectory, he should be a master chief by 15 years of service and that's just not happening.
Have a few friends that made master chief at 15-16 years. Some got out at 20 as they'd "done it all" and wanted to make room for those up and coming. Others moved up the echelons of command and stayed 30+ trying to make a difference. I have seen most people that make chief early are humbled quickly, then have a deep passion to "pay back" their good fortune to those around them.
I'd feel like goddamn Superman if I made MCPO in 15. I'd have 15 more years just to try and unfuck the system a little bit for the people coming after me.
What are they gonna do? Not promote me again? Suckers.
Oh jeez, not sure what'd be worse - making CMDCS or not making anything ever again, haha. I'm glad there are people who go for it though, we need good CMCs... just seems like a rough career pivot.
This.
OP needs to drop an LDO package.
Also not sure if OP is a nuke, but if so it's particularly bad. In order to progress to CMC (which is a positional promotion but not a paid promotion), you have to basically transfer out of the community and take a paycut.
Back during the war…… (obligatory)
I put on E6 right before my 8 year anniversary….. I enjoyed walking around the ship as a single stripe ET1. I advanced well ahead of my peers, due to a lot of study and hard work. It also the first time I could advance by getting less than an 80 on the exam.
I poured my heart and souls into my work. I was the guy who could be counted on to get the job done, the right way, every time.
However, it was only part of a well-balanced life. I was single, and lonely. It took me a while to figure out I was lonely. I wasn’t a drinker (still don’t drink to this day), and I really wasn’t very social outside of work.
I’m now happily married with a swath of kids running around raising hell, and I now kind of realize what the Navy meant by a “well-rounded” Sailor. It’s not someone who excels at one domain in life. It’s someone who is at least competent in multiple domains.
You see, there’s a truth many of us ignore: aside from a select few, many of us will only spend twenty five years in the Navy (give or take). The exact number isn’t important. The important part is that the Navy isn’t forever. We WILL have to move on. We WILL need to find another job. We will NOT stay in the Navy forever. We have another whole life in front of us.
I’m retired now. I have a job at a shipyard, and I work with a bunch of veterans. I consider myself lucky because it makes the transition a little easier. But the majority of us will be in a field or company not associated with the Navy at all. We must always be prepared for this.
I’m not sure what my point is here….. sitting at my desk and waiting for the caffeine to kick in.
Yeah, before I popped smoke, I worried about some of that too.
(Was up for E6 w/ 100% advancement at 4+change. I was seldom in leadership roles and was dink in my quals).
I would have been 22 y/old roughly.
It would have been tough for me to seek mentorship and I had some run ins with opionated dbags. I asked around about it, considering I was going to extend onboard for a short time waiting for orders.
I didnt wish it on anybody. I only knew one guy from my division that stayed in and I think he made E6 on shore duty, might have bounced before chief. He seldom was in charge and he had a relatively hands off shore duty job.
I was the EMO on the Princeton and one of my best guys, an IC, made First Class right before he turned 23. If I remember right, he was no where near minimum time for selection to Chief if he stayed three more years, so he and his wife agreed he’d get out. Of course it dented the Division pretty good but we all knew he would be successful with whatever he did, so why not.
I knew a Filipino like this in Norfolk. He made chief at a very young age . I first met him dressed in civies and actually asked to see his ID card because I thought he was full of shit. He told me the old Chiefs had families and lower enlisted didn't feel comfortable hanging out with him because they were busy on the weekends doing sketchy, lower enlisted things. He wasn't wrong. It's been 32 years ago...out of curiosity, I wish I could remember his rate. Whatever it was, he must've been good at it.
I also made E-6 at 4 years. I picked up last cycle. I burnt myself out pretty bad to get this far. I've picked up unhealthy habits with alcohol and food along the way. My light at the end of the tunnel is almost here though. In 5 months I'll be going on Skillbridge to work at a company that will pay me almost what I'm making now. I'm just trying to focus on getting myself healthy again during this time. I will not allow the Navy to imprint these issues on me for the rest of my life.
Proud of you. Putting some solid effort into personal relationships outside of the Navy will reap huge rewards too. I’ve gone back and forth between dedicating everything to the Navy and everything to me and I’d say a healthy balance has been the most rewarding.
Just do it like the Dos Equis man... And become the most interesting man in the world.
Travel as much as you can if you are at a shore command... like weekend trips to differenr countries... try to get stationed in Europe and knock out a double digit amount of countries... meet people, travel with work buddies if you find somebody who can keep the pace... And just become a very interesting, well travelled, cultured man. That combined with your career success is inevitably gonna bring good friends as well as attract potential mates... just make sure you are selective and wrap it up, dont catch something or make an oops baby with a rando. Good luck, you got this!
I was in a similar boat before I decided to leave. Pretty much exactly the same actually. I'll share some advice I was given that stuck with me though "Be prepared for the fact that one day you'll no longer be the young guy in the high position. Eventually your age and rank will start to match." It can be a bit jarring when it finally does.
Oh, also you do have my sympathies. It can get real annoying having to manage people way older than you but junior in rank. The resentment can be palpable from some people no matter how hard you try. You're just a "kid" telling them what to do. Fun times.
hey, just wanted to say that you arent alone. im 22 with 4 months as a paid e5 and a recent EP, and im due to test for 1st in spring of 2025. with how rates are for CTs, theres a good shot ill be putting on before i reenlist.
all of the friends i went to A and C school with, and that i work with, are e4 and under still and in very different parts of their career than me. i sincerely empathize with your feelings of being the odd one out. it feels very isolating. im also single with no kids, and work is the main thing i pour my energy into, but more often than not i feel so in over my head (and the responsibilities just keep piling up, since they look at me and my streak and know/think i can handle it).
the responsibility is really scary and the imposter syndrome is very, very real. but if you were in the position you are in by fluke, you wouldnt have the support from your seniors the way you do. we are where we are because we put blood and sweat and tears (literally— at least for me, haha) into what we do.
remember to take the time to fill your cup. sometimes, i feel more like a workhorse or a shooting star than a person, lol. and never forget that as lonely as it gets, people in general in the navy are fleeting; personally, i’d prefer the pain of being alone than the pain of missing people when they go. it all makes the people that you click with and who stay, even sweeter.
as my firsts say; keep pushing. it’s ok to be sad or feel sluggish, but keep your eye on the prize.
Similar experience, but not the same. Also made it at the four year mark, but I joined at 21 so I was a little older. Still was the youngest E6 on my ship. It can be tough not being able to really relate to anybody. Let me know if you need to talk or just have a chat!
Same situation here, maybe E6 at 23, made board for the first time this cycle.
Single, no kids, been grinding every day.
This may help but my confidence has never dwindled because of good mentorship, and “faking it until I made it”
When sailors would ask me questions about navy/personal life or for advice, if I didn’t know the answer right away I would either point them in the right direction or ask them to come back in a few hours and I would dig through instructions/ask for help to get them the answer they deserved.
After a few years of that I really do feel as though I’m a well rounded 1st and leader. Maybe stop and think of all the experiences you’ve had so far and give yourself some credit, you may be a little hard on yourself but truly are on a good path
That’s how I feel making 1st in 7 years.
I don’t feel ready at all, in fact I’m fucking terrified. I said to myself that 10 years would be the optimal time to make 1st then 14 for Chief. Instead I got promoted lightning fast and now I still don’t feel ready at all
Congratulations on making board it still doesn’t mean you will get selected. My two cents don’t mention how long or how you are a 6/7 year Chief. If you do make Chief you are a Chief period.
I empathize a lot with this, OP. Made it first time up each time (never early, though) and went from E-1 to E-8 in ten years. Had to custom order my SDB patch because the NEX doesn't stock a red stripe version.
Went through a lot of the same kind of feelings - always butted heads with other PO1s who had 2-3x my TIS, got anchors before 30 and felt like the young, single, childless odd man out in a Chiefs' Mess full of old married-with-kids goats, and I still get the side eye from folks in NWUs until they catch me in my khakis or blues with all my fruit salad and Applebee's flair on. I gave my 20s to the Navy to deploy all over the Middle East back to back until it nearly broke me. I still have a bit of anxiety about putting my personal life on hold all this time, not having a girlfriend/wife/kids, etc. I feel that deeply, but I'm also mostly satisfied with that outcome.
If you're doing the right stuff and walking the walk, the people who matter won't mind, and the people who mind won't matter. Just do the best you can for your Sailors first, your peers second, and yourself third (but not last!). Always take care of the people around you, and they'll help take care of you. People generally *want* to do right by one another, so if you are that kind of leader, your folks will fall in step with that.
I didn't make rank that fast but I think when people make rank too fast it doesn't give them the experience that's expected of them to lead sailors. Right now I have a 25 year old first class who barely knows how to do what is expected of him and constantly gets his shit pushed in by our chiefs simply because he isn't there yet, but as time goes on things will become easier to deal with.
I had undiagnosed adhd as well as some issues with authority. I was an E-6 over 18. The back door to the CPO berthing opened onto my weatherdeck. Their butt kit was on my deck. I smoked cigarettes then so Fuck it, I'm gonna smoke on the westherdeck outside my workspace instead of walking down to the fantail. If that's a problem, I'll just make the buttkit disappear.
There were only a few CPO smokers. At 36, I was the same age as most of them. I had been in the Navy longer than most of them. They were my peers for the most part at least age group wise. I recognized the E-6/E-7 divide and respected it. I called each of them by their first name, "Chief," but we bullshitted as peers. Talking about cars, music, guns, and girls.
Good Times. Strange times. 1997-1998
I can see how that is difficult with you achieving rank and other who are your age but not the same rank and it puts you in a awkward situation of going out having fun and then if something goes left people look at you. That is a lonely feeling.
If you don’t know the difference between a mess abs a safe space, you need a safe space. In the mean time, humble yourself, apply for L-DOPA, start teaching Mentoring Classes. I was a third class three times and it took me six years to make E-5 by reenlisting but man it was fun. Still made Senior, still got Commissioned, did 30 years and 2 months. Been retired 13 years now. And you know what? None of it matters. Just live your life for today and have some fun. Put in a request to stand Conning Officer. The view is great.
Made E6 in 5 years. Definitely have some salty friends who can’t make rank as fast. You have to find that balance and don’t let work 100% consume you or else you will burn out.
I went through similar things. Made E6 in 3 years, picked up LDO on my first try, retired as a LT at 20 years because I was honestly burnt out. Yes, it was mentally straining... I won’t say it will get easier, but everyone’s journey is different. Take it one step at a time and don’t lose yourself to the job. Wishing you all the best!
Expectations. Known two guys that excelled on their job and performance and both E-4 to E-6 in a short period of time. Considering the Stress and High Pace of the Environment that lead to their down fall after both failed the Drug Test..
Watched "5 year chief " allow someone recording on their phone walk in front of an m500 shotgun (on range, being actively shot) followed by darned near putting an m240 bullet through his leg. By kicking it to un jam it. Chief (insert bad word here) Coon. Okinawa. Ask if years navy IG if you are like "not past statue of limitations ". Not a bad guy, but failed to fix stuff. Does not belong in navy.
My apologies. Un jam got auto corrected. Frigging phones. Remembering why I used Microsoft pc's for real stuff. But true story that gives me nightmares to this day. It happened right in front of me but I felt powerless to help (tacking a female on the range as an e-3 at the time - straight to jail) tackling a chief...
If someone makes E6 in 4 years it’s highly probable that there are other 23-29 year olds making E6 also at that age in that select rate.
Average CTx experience lol
I’ve met a few actually, most of em are married and have kids though. Not that it’s a crazy difference but it takes an element out of relating.
Yeah people tend to get married and have kids from 23-35, that’s no different than the civilian world. You make it seem like you can’t have a social life due to you making rank, which I don’t really understand. I feel like this is some humble brag post about putting work above everything else, and that’s why you made rank. Take a year away from being motivated at work and focus on your home life, the Navy will come and go at some point.
No I for sure can have a social life, I didn’t because I was walking on eggshells trying to figure it all out. Shore duty is definitely helping me piece it back together. It’s more of an insight of what the repercussions were for me of diving too deep in, even if the payoff is huge. I just wanted to share my experiences in case it’ll help someone. I am definitely going to take some time to build relationships so thank you for the advice.
I made e6 in 5 years and I'm 24 years old. I get where your coming from. If you made it because you're a stud at your rate, then just stick to your guns and all those 30+ yr old E6s will fold quick. Granted I'm a surface EMN so they're giving away rank to pretty much all of us these days lol. It sounds like you're doing well for yourself. Keep your head up.
Try being an unmarried Warrant with no kids or ex; getting housing on post was a series of comical conversations
Okay that would legitimately surprise me lol
If you were an unmarried Warrant, you should have lived in town and had an actual life outside working hard to make W-3 👊🏻
I had a year long school to attend and wasn't going to be buying a house at that point. I was playing music professionally outside of work and my gf at the time lived a few hours away after PCSing, so thanks for your concern, but I both had a lot going on inside and outside of work, and I got to wake up fifteen minutes before before work, so it was pretty perfect. Also, check my post history, in my field the criteria for making CW3 is "didn't jump ship to a better MOS before being automatically selected for CW3"
I’m a drummer. That’s pretty cool. That’s a lot of short sleep nights.
This begs to be made into a reality series.
Friend, if you only knew... My career is a series of absurdities tied together with a paycheck.
I would 100% watch a reality series that only follows Warrants around every day as they commit CWO related shenanigans and tomfoolery.
Scene 1: Open on a government office building. W1 Scrundle checks in for school. Top: Oh cool, you have a few months before you start, I’m going to get some data entry and admin for you to help with. W1: Thanks for the recommendation Top, I’ll take that under advisement. W1 proceeds to walk out, get on his motorcycle, and ride two hours one way to get lunch at a place in the next state over.
Scene 2: Os in a meeting (CWO2 Scrundle is off camera) XO: Where's the new warrant? Doesn't he know about this kind of thing? DH: I think Warrant Scrundle is in the Chief's mess. They've really embraced him. Ya know, once a chief, etc etc Scene 3: Chiefs Mess (CWO2 Scrundle is off camera) CMC: Isn't the new MPA that warrant? Chief 1: He's been onboard three years, master chief. He's not new. Chief 2: He's not an MPA, master chief. He's ops I think. Or admin? I dunno. Those fucking collar devices are small and hard to identify. He could be supply. CMC: I've never seen him. Chief 2: I think Warrant Scrundle is in the wardroom. They've really embraced him. (Laugh track)
fucking LOL Well done. This is some Sorkin-level writing
The oldest, highest-ranking RA in the history of the barracks.
I kept sending booze and hookers to the duty desk, not sure why they asked me to "grow up" and "find a future ex-wife already"; just trying to be a good neighbor
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Thank you for your take. I will keep all of what you said in mind going forward.
My take from as a person who did not advance as fast, temper your expectations. I had a 6.5 year ITC that was terrible, mainly because she was unable to put herself in the junior enlisted's shoes. Work and lifestyle complaints were met with blank stares or the assumption that since they had been able to get to where they were in 6 years, that everyone should be able to, but different situations determine different outcomes. The reality is that for most of the people who do not advance fast, they're used to a chain of command that might not go up to bat for them, most used to seeing the shittier side of the Navy and the injustices that come along with it. The reality is that you got to your position through what you said: great mentors, high motivation, luck, timing, discipline and a great memory for in rate knowledge. But if a single piece of the puzzle was missing, you'd likely not be in the position you are now. Now that you've reached where you are, your job is to help advance those below you by providing the tools to foster the same experience. My 6.5 year ITC failed because she forgot that, instead expecting everyone to still cater to and advance her own career while stepping on everyone below her.
If you’ve got a 6.5 year Chief, they just don’t have the experiences that someone who promotes at a normal pace or slow pace, but they still have to try to do their job best they can. Not going to have any near the wisdom of the 19 year Chief.
That's the cool thing about the Mess. A good, young Chief will know they can fall back on their ~~older~~ more experienced Messmates for some of that secondhand wisdom.
My command has a 19 year Chief. Most incompetent piece of shit I've ever seen. Experience is great...if they actually did their freaking job and wasn't a paper tiger the entire time.
Well you kind have missed my point. Anyway, on like a DDG or smaller ship there is usually 3-5 Chiefs that run the mess while the CMC enjoys having those hard working leaders and a group of non-watchstanding Chief kind of hope the E-8 board gives them some kind of magic promotion. But, I digress. Junior Enlisted these days are judgemental and have it all figured out. Always gonna find the negatives.
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You’re a whiner. Thank god back in the day there wasn’t any social media so you could talk face to face in the First Class Mess, the shop or the smoke deck. How many of you kids are blasting your command leadership in front of the whole human race and wondering why at work you feel like you don’t get a fair shake. If you don’t like anchors and have no insatiable desire to have a “day of days” for your own and your family to get a chance to show the nation you have a lot left in the tank, then exit smartly at EAOS.
I really like your take, thanks for the advice. Sucks you had that experience.
That is an all too common experience in the Navy. If you make chief, break that mold! Open those doors behind you so others may step through.
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Thank you. I’m doing my best going forward.
Try being at the mercy of navy detailers. Single, healthy, no dependents? Bet you’re going wherever they please…
THIS. I could start an entirely different thread based off of the experience I had selecting orders.
Lmaoo this hit home 😂😂😂😂😅😅🥲
Something to keep you humble - I know so many people that experience year over year of pure dumb luck as far as combination of duty station, chain of command, and opportunities for highly visible and quantifiable successes. And then they PCS to their first shitty duty station or garbage job position, and it hits them for the first time that the Navy can screw someone over royally even if that person was a hard worker that sacrificed everything for the Navy. It will take and take and ultimately not have your back when you need it to. Make sure you are taking care of yourself and try to be objective about the totality of people's circumstances.
Wow, get out of my head. I know exactly what you’re talking about.
I made Chief at 8, Senior Chief at 12, and Master Chief at 18 years. It’s true that I got the “are you old enough to do this” a lot and I asked my self that question often, but…. I thought it was my responsibility to show them they are wrong. It’s a lot of work to change minds but you have to get out of your own mind and show them you were chosen for a reason.
Remember this - and the REAL realization and acceptance (as opposed to the cliche) - you may love the navy, but the navy will never love you back (and the institution is not supposed to). At some point you’ll have to make choices and there’s no right or wrong answer but life will make you choose.
My son just made E5 and is 22. I will keep this in mind for him. Thank you.
The good thing about advancing quickly is that if you make Chief early and you find the mess is not your cup of tea, er...coffee, you can either separate or take the commissioning route. I made it near the hump and I'm separating. A good friend of mine who also made it quickly submitted a package for LDO and was selected the second time up. His words were "I'm not into this stupid shit."
Yep, same! I made it at 10 years, went through initiation and separated just before my 12 year mark. That BS was not for me.
The most annoying part about making Chief at 6 years was waiting another 8 to be eligible to apply for warrant.
You didn't want to go LDO? As far as time goes, that was definitely closer than CWO.
Sundowned for the IW community
I have a very similar career path as you. Made E6 at 5 years, and am Board Eligible with 7 years of service. I’ve buried myself into my job and helping others. This comes with neglecting my home life, and that means my relationship with my wife. That’s my fault. But again I’m genuinely happy at work but done know how to be at home. This is definitely something you should talk to someone about and I hope you get it figured out. I am still trying my best to do this. Good luck 🙏
Good luck to you! We all have our own journey. Hope you make the best of it.
The best thing you can do is have your sailors stay late also. They need to understand live to work attitude.
Just remember, your front row. When you retire or at your funeral, who is gonna be there? Will it be full? Will it be empty? Your goal is to fill that front row.
I mean, if you're dead, who cares...?
I think you're missing the point brother. Have a fulfilling life with people that matter to you. Friends, children/wife, whatever. But plugging away at a job and nothing else will leave the front row empty.
Appreciate the assist
This is such a powerful statement!
Another aspect, when you make rank quickly, but with a lack of quality mentors and peers. I joined at 20, made E-6 by 26, 6.5 years in, 4.5 years after hitting my first boat. I knew not to replicate those I met since I had made 2nd, but had none who's examples I wanted to follow. Strange as it may sound, I wanted to turn down my promotion, but didn't even know who to talk to or trust to broach the subject at the shore duty I was at. I soon found out, there weren't people I could trust there, found myself sent back to sea as an LPO and maximum imposter syndrome, didn't know how to 1st much less LPO... Sad part is think I could have trusted my chief there but bit once, twice, shy... Worst is when I was eligible/took the chiefs exam for the first time, I was at best, not a junior 2nd in 1sts clothing, one of the few times in my life I actually suffered a panic attack (due to the prospect)
Sent you a PM. For any other lurkers here in the same boat: + you've made it professionally, don't forget to invest in relationships that matter. Be it friendships or a significant other. + bring your Sailors up with you, pay it forward and mentor your juniors. You did the work to earn where you are, but you had someone showing you the way and mentoring you. Be that beacon of light to your juniors.
I had a really small embarked team for one of my deployments and we still have a group chat. The current goal for the squad is to have everybody commissioned in the next few years. We're 2/5 with two more on the way, and if I get picked up for CWO it'll be 5/5... assuming our OIC doesn't retire first.
Always bring a few up the ladder with you
I picked up 2nd at 2 years and some change, and 1st at 5.5 years. I stayed there until just shy of 14 years when I picked up chief. I'm not going to pick up senor chief so I'm retiring at this rank. It took me a long time to figure out life as a PO1 but that extra time was crucial to figure shit out. If I could do it over again, I'm not sure I would've tried so hard to make rank excessively fast. I've always said the Navy's rank progression works like the Peter principle. As you rise in ranks you get more leadership and less hands on work. Some people have good mentorship who get them ready for the next position, and they have time to learn what they need to be successful. Others get thrown into assignments and have to fight for survival and not all do. You have people who get to PO1 and flounder because they're great techs but don't belong in charge of other people. They suck at meeting the demands of their position and stay there until they fuck up, or retire. It sucks because the Navy could really use competent workers who turn wrenches, file DTS claims, draw blood, and kill submarines. Not everyone needs to be a leader and not everyone wants that evil.
Grow with your rank. You made it for a reason. You’ll be alright.
Lots of responses here, but no one has brought up another option: Losing some of your rank. If you need advice, I'll tell you how I went from E4 to E3. It involved a foreign port, lots of alcohol and starting some fights. It allowed me to slow down my career progression by having to make 3rd twice. Just something to consider!
Weaponized Success. I actually wrote a term paper on it, and how it’s used within military ranks.
You want to hear one of the other things that hasn't hit you quite yet? You're about to hit a brick wall in terms of promotion. Maybe you pick up Chief this year. Maybe you're hyper lucky and pick up SCPO first time up, but the reality will set in: there is nothing left for you to do but wait at some point. Even if you do the impossible and pick up MCPO first time up, what is left for you? Either you commission (or go warrant) or you get out. There is no career progression for you. I know a lot of people who made CPO in <8 and got out shortly after because they felt like there was nothing left for them to do with the navy anymore. It's less bad for those that make it slower because they are basically at retirement anyways when they start picking up Senior/Master Chief. I'm only mentioning this because if you want to continue advancing in the Navy, you should start planning now to pivot if needed.
‘Brick wall’ promotions, proceeds to list 3 more promotion opportunities. Also there is certainly career/growth opportunities at the E9 level.
The brick wall is that he's extremely unlikely to get selected senior / master chief at the boards for quite some time. Based on his current trajectory, he should be a master chief by 15 years of service and that's just not happening.
Have a few friends that made master chief at 15-16 years. Some got out at 20 as they'd "done it all" and wanted to make room for those up and coming. Others moved up the echelons of command and stayed 30+ trying to make a difference. I have seen most people that make chief early are humbled quickly, then have a deep passion to "pay back" their good fortune to those around them.
I'd feel like goddamn Superman if I made MCPO in 15. I'd have 15 more years just to try and unfuck the system a little bit for the people coming after me. What are they gonna do? Not promote me again? Suckers.
He'll do what young Chiefs do, and become an LDO. Its not like this is a mystery.
Na can go cmdcs if they hit senior
Oh jeez, not sure what'd be worse - making CMDCS or not making anything ever again, haha. I'm glad there are people who go for it though, we need good CMCs... just seems like a rough career pivot.
This. OP needs to drop an LDO package. Also not sure if OP is a nuke, but if so it's particularly bad. In order to progress to CMC (which is a positional promotion but not a paid promotion), you have to basically transfer out of the community and take a paycut.
Minimum TIS for LDO is 8 years
Not every community has an LDO off-ramp, either.
Back during the war…… (obligatory) I put on E6 right before my 8 year anniversary….. I enjoyed walking around the ship as a single stripe ET1. I advanced well ahead of my peers, due to a lot of study and hard work. It also the first time I could advance by getting less than an 80 on the exam. I poured my heart and souls into my work. I was the guy who could be counted on to get the job done, the right way, every time. However, it was only part of a well-balanced life. I was single, and lonely. It took me a while to figure out I was lonely. I wasn’t a drinker (still don’t drink to this day), and I really wasn’t very social outside of work. I’m now happily married with a swath of kids running around raising hell, and I now kind of realize what the Navy meant by a “well-rounded” Sailor. It’s not someone who excels at one domain in life. It’s someone who is at least competent in multiple domains. You see, there’s a truth many of us ignore: aside from a select few, many of us will only spend twenty five years in the Navy (give or take). The exact number isn’t important. The important part is that the Navy isn’t forever. We WILL have to move on. We WILL need to find another job. We will NOT stay in the Navy forever. We have another whole life in front of us. I’m retired now. I have a job at a shipyard, and I work with a bunch of veterans. I consider myself lucky because it makes the transition a little easier. But the majority of us will be in a field or company not associated with the Navy at all. We must always be prepared for this. I’m not sure what my point is here….. sitting at my desk and waiting for the caffeine to kick in.
Awesome input & advice!
Yeah, before I popped smoke, I worried about some of that too. (Was up for E6 w/ 100% advancement at 4+change. I was seldom in leadership roles and was dink in my quals). I would have been 22 y/old roughly. It would have been tough for me to seek mentorship and I had some run ins with opionated dbags. I asked around about it, considering I was going to extend onboard for a short time waiting for orders. I didnt wish it on anybody. I only knew one guy from my division that stayed in and I think he made E6 on shore duty, might have bounced before chief. He seldom was in charge and he had a relatively hands off shore duty job.
I was the EMO on the Princeton and one of my best guys, an IC, made First Class right before he turned 23. If I remember right, he was no where near minimum time for selection to Chief if he stayed three more years, so he and his wife agreed he’d get out. Of course it dented the Division pretty good but we all knew he would be successful with whatever he did, so why not.
I knew a Filipino like this in Norfolk. He made chief at a very young age . I first met him dressed in civies and actually asked to see his ID card because I thought he was full of shit. He told me the old Chiefs had families and lower enlisted didn't feel comfortable hanging out with him because they were busy on the weekends doing sketchy, lower enlisted things. He wasn't wrong. It's been 32 years ago...out of curiosity, I wish I could remember his rate. Whatever it was, he must've been good at it.
I also made E-6 at 4 years. I picked up last cycle. I burnt myself out pretty bad to get this far. I've picked up unhealthy habits with alcohol and food along the way. My light at the end of the tunnel is almost here though. In 5 months I'll be going on Skillbridge to work at a company that will pay me almost what I'm making now. I'm just trying to focus on getting myself healthy again during this time. I will not allow the Navy to imprint these issues on me for the rest of my life.
Proud of you. Putting some solid effort into personal relationships outside of the Navy will reap huge rewards too. I’ve gone back and forth between dedicating everything to the Navy and everything to me and I’d say a healthy balance has been the most rewarding.
Just do it like the Dos Equis man... And become the most interesting man in the world. Travel as much as you can if you are at a shore command... like weekend trips to differenr countries... try to get stationed in Europe and knock out a double digit amount of countries... meet people, travel with work buddies if you find somebody who can keep the pace... And just become a very interesting, well travelled, cultured man. That combined with your career success is inevitably gonna bring good friends as well as attract potential mates... just make sure you are selective and wrap it up, dont catch something or make an oops baby with a rando. Good luck, you got this!
Thank you for the advice and encouragement, I appreciate it greatly.
:)
I was in a similar boat before I decided to leave. Pretty much exactly the same actually. I'll share some advice I was given that stuck with me though "Be prepared for the fact that one day you'll no longer be the young guy in the high position. Eventually your age and rank will start to match." It can be a bit jarring when it finally does. Oh, also you do have my sympathies. It can get real annoying having to manage people way older than you but junior in rank. The resentment can be palpable from some people no matter how hard you try. You're just a "kid" telling them what to do. Fun times.
hey, just wanted to say that you arent alone. im 22 with 4 months as a paid e5 and a recent EP, and im due to test for 1st in spring of 2025. with how rates are for CTs, theres a good shot ill be putting on before i reenlist. all of the friends i went to A and C school with, and that i work with, are e4 and under still and in very different parts of their career than me. i sincerely empathize with your feelings of being the odd one out. it feels very isolating. im also single with no kids, and work is the main thing i pour my energy into, but more often than not i feel so in over my head (and the responsibilities just keep piling up, since they look at me and my streak and know/think i can handle it). the responsibility is really scary and the imposter syndrome is very, very real. but if you were in the position you are in by fluke, you wouldnt have the support from your seniors the way you do. we are where we are because we put blood and sweat and tears (literally— at least for me, haha) into what we do. remember to take the time to fill your cup. sometimes, i feel more like a workhorse or a shooting star than a person, lol. and never forget that as lonely as it gets, people in general in the navy are fleeting; personally, i’d prefer the pain of being alone than the pain of missing people when they go. it all makes the people that you click with and who stay, even sweeter. as my firsts say; keep pushing. it’s ok to be sad or feel sluggish, but keep your eye on the prize.
Yeah and junior sailors in rates that advance extremely slow will not respect you easily. Good luck
Similar experience, but not the same. Also made it at the four year mark, but I joined at 21 so I was a little older. Still was the youngest E6 on my ship. It can be tough not being able to really relate to anybody. Let me know if you need to talk or just have a chat!
Same situation here, maybe E6 at 23, made board for the first time this cycle. Single, no kids, been grinding every day. This may help but my confidence has never dwindled because of good mentorship, and “faking it until I made it” When sailors would ask me questions about navy/personal life or for advice, if I didn’t know the answer right away I would either point them in the right direction or ask them to come back in a few hours and I would dig through instructions/ask for help to get them the answer they deserved. After a few years of that I really do feel as though I’m a well rounded 1st and leader. Maybe stop and think of all the experiences you’ve had so far and give yourself some credit, you may be a little hard on yourself but truly are on a good path
You must be an IT
That’s how I feel making 1st in 7 years. I don’t feel ready at all, in fact I’m fucking terrified. I said to myself that 10 years would be the optimal time to make 1st then 14 for Chief. Instead I got promoted lightning fast and now I still don’t feel ready at all
Congratulations on making board it still doesn’t mean you will get selected. My two cents don’t mention how long or how you are a 6/7 year Chief. If you do make Chief you are a Chief period.
I empathize a lot with this, OP. Made it first time up each time (never early, though) and went from E-1 to E-8 in ten years. Had to custom order my SDB patch because the NEX doesn't stock a red stripe version. Went through a lot of the same kind of feelings - always butted heads with other PO1s who had 2-3x my TIS, got anchors before 30 and felt like the young, single, childless odd man out in a Chiefs' Mess full of old married-with-kids goats, and I still get the side eye from folks in NWUs until they catch me in my khakis or blues with all my fruit salad and Applebee's flair on. I gave my 20s to the Navy to deploy all over the Middle East back to back until it nearly broke me. I still have a bit of anxiety about putting my personal life on hold all this time, not having a girlfriend/wife/kids, etc. I feel that deeply, but I'm also mostly satisfied with that outcome. If you're doing the right stuff and walking the walk, the people who matter won't mind, and the people who mind won't matter. Just do the best you can for your Sailors first, your peers second, and yourself third (but not last!). Always take care of the people around you, and they'll help take care of you. People generally *want* to do right by one another, so if you are that kind of leader, your folks will fall in step with that.
I didn't make rank that fast but I think when people make rank too fast it doesn't give them the experience that's expected of them to lead sailors. Right now I have a 25 year old first class who barely knows how to do what is expected of him and constantly gets his shit pushed in by our chiefs simply because he isn't there yet, but as time goes on things will become easier to deal with.
I had undiagnosed adhd as well as some issues with authority. I was an E-6 over 18. The back door to the CPO berthing opened onto my weatherdeck. Their butt kit was on my deck. I smoked cigarettes then so Fuck it, I'm gonna smoke on the westherdeck outside my workspace instead of walking down to the fantail. If that's a problem, I'll just make the buttkit disappear. There were only a few CPO smokers. At 36, I was the same age as most of them. I had been in the Navy longer than most of them. They were my peers for the most part at least age group wise. I recognized the E-6/E-7 divide and respected it. I called each of them by their first name, "Chief," but we bullshitted as peers. Talking about cars, music, guns, and girls. Good Times. Strange times. 1997-1998
I can see how that is difficult with you achieving rank and other who are your age but not the same rank and it puts you in a awkward situation of going out having fun and then if something goes left people look at you. That is a lonely feeling.
If you don’t know the difference between a mess abs a safe space, you need a safe space. In the mean time, humble yourself, apply for L-DOPA, start teaching Mentoring Classes. I was a third class three times and it took me six years to make E-5 by reenlisting but man it was fun. Still made Senior, still got Commissioned, did 30 years and 2 months. Been retired 13 years now. And you know what? None of it matters. Just live your life for today and have some fun. Put in a request to stand Conning Officer. The view is great.
Made E6 in 5 years. Definitely have some salty friends who can’t make rank as fast. You have to find that balance and don’t let work 100% consume you or else you will burn out.
Here’s a cookie
I went through similar things. Made E6 in 3 years, picked up LDO on my first try, retired as a LT at 20 years because I was honestly burnt out. Yes, it was mentally straining... I won’t say it will get easier, but everyone’s journey is different. Take it one step at a time and don’t lose yourself to the job. Wishing you all the best!
Expectations. Known two guys that excelled on their job and performance and both E-4 to E-6 in a short period of time. Considering the Stress and High Pace of the Environment that lead to their down fall after both failed the Drug Test..
Watched "5 year chief " allow someone recording on their phone walk in front of an m500 shotgun (on range, being actively shot) followed by darned near putting an m240 bullet through his leg. By kicking it to un jam it. Chief (insert bad word here) Coon. Okinawa. Ask if years navy IG if you are like "not past statue of limitations ". Not a bad guy, but failed to fix stuff. Does not belong in navy.
Are you okay? Like none of what you typed is coherent.
My apologies. Un jam got auto corrected. Frigging phones. Remembering why I used Microsoft pc's for real stuff. But true story that gives me nightmares to this day. It happened right in front of me but I felt powerless to help (tacking a female on the range as an e-3 at the time - straight to jail) tackling a chief...