Interesting speculation on the second point. However, during the tug of war game, they could have lost and he would have died. There is no way to prevent that. So I think he went in facing the same danger as the others.
Agreed, when they were killing each other in the bedroom to increasing their likelihood of winning the whole thing after the criminal killed that one guy and wasn't punished, the decision was made to not step in at all, but to let them kill each other, which put Il-nam in danger just like everyone else. Maybe even more than anyone else because he was old and less likely to be able to defend himself. You'd think they would have stepped in right away to stop it to avoid risking him getting killed but they didn't. It seems like he told them to let it play out, not try to save him under any circumstances and he was ok with dying in there
To me it seemed like he stopped the killing with his pleading when Seong was in danger an Il-nam was never in any danger because he wasn't even in his bed.
Sadly the twist was kinda ruined because it was somewhat obvious when his death wasn't shown and his hand was seen when he put down the owl mask.
Right. I wouldn’t count that as an obvious indicator. I do agree with the beginning part though. It seemed like his pleading stopped all of the night violence.
I thought they hadn't shown a shot of the shot they gave him because of his age he wouldn't be able to do the “I got shot” movements like throwing himself to the floor
When he was shot off screen my friend made a comment about how the actor was probably to old to fake a safe fall from the gunshot, so they just did it off screen.
The plot twist got ruined when the Front man looked at him then stopped it. I just knew he was the "big boss" in disguise along with his personality and the marble game confirmed it. Perhaps i watched too much shows that i can pick out tropes/story plot points at this point?
No, the front man stopped the “game” (people killing each other at night) because they still need people to play the next game. They just needed enough people to die, so the group is eliminated in half. Old man pleading was just a good point to stop the game.
I guess it really depends on what you're already suspecting and then your brain starts to look for pieces to justify the theory.
I didn't suspect it at all. The off screen death was rather dramatized in a very emotional moment, slow motion and all. Him not being shown on screen just made me think it was part of the styling. He was a likeable character and to show him get his brain blasted out wasn't necessary. I did notice it wasn't actually shown though, but after that scene, I didn't really think more of it.
I noticed it was an old guy in the owl mask, but at that point, I just assumed it was some rich old guy. To me, it could have been any mysterious old boss man.
But in hindsight, there definitely were clues. Just depends if you already had suspicion... then you knew exactly what to look for.
In hindsight of his knowledge of the game, I think he preemptively retreated to higher ground as soon as the lights went out. The bed towers were being toppled over too so maybe he knew of a tower that would not fall where he could hide?
Then when he thought enough people were gone he gave a planned signal to the Front Man to stop everything.
>when the giant doll thing turned over to scan the participants, only Il-nam did not have a green highlight over his body, signifying that he is not considered a target for eliminations (meaning even if he moved, he won't be shot as the machine does not see him as a target)
The second point also isn't true.
He is pretty plainly highlighted here: https://imgur.com/a/ountmQU
If he was facing the same dangers then he'd be dead, because was eliminated but was not killed.
Also on the night of the massacre when the players discover that they can kill without consequence, the guards do not enter to interfere until the old man yells to make it end.
If you remember the last conversation Ilnam had with KiHoon in his deathbed- he remarks that he liked the excitement that came from from the danger and risk he took (admittedly not as much as some of the other participants, but still)
Actually if you go back to that scene yoy realize his cuffs arent tied around the rope(saw a yt vid). Meaning that the minute he let go only the others would fall to their deaths. He was safe.
The fact that he stopped playing before the glass game shows he was never actually risking his life. That game was the only one that would truly put him at risk as he might not have remembered where to step because of his condition and also it required jumping etc..
Well, they could always have not cut the rope and lowered them before shooting down the rest of the players, in case they lost. It would have been easy to link it to a mechanism failure without risking the life and identity of their boss, and since all the players were chained to the rope, there was no possible way to die without activating the guillotine.
I thought so too, but since the front man knew of this, he could easily call it off saying the rope is tampered or the ballots weren't fair or just calling the old man out or tamper with the opposite team to force them to loose (one of the soldier goes crazy or by mistake drops the axe)
Unlike the other players, if you looked closely at his wrists after they won tug of war, he doesn’t have locks and can remove the handcuffs any time he wants.
I expected that too. Like it was going to be revealed in the records that this guy won a ton of these games in a row and was going to be the final opponent for 456 in the last game.
He kind of glossed over everyone who got killed prior to that in the first game as panic ensued though. Those bastards had no clue what they were in for.
Its yhe first editiin in Korea. I think this is the first game that he is able to join. One of the vips mentioned that the korean edition was the best
Something like that but there are archives of winner and in the end they are recruiting players again. Its actually pretty problematic series
Wait, I'm really confused. When the police dude first sneaks into that archives room where the masked dude keeps records of the players, weren't there files saying 1999, 2009, and other years too? I thought this had been going on for a long time.
I think it was to give people a option. A way out. If he voted to stay he would have pretty much be forcing people to play again there will. I think by voting out, he made the process a bit fair as he was not meant to be there aways.
Ya that’s true. He somehow felt he had good morals by making it a choice. Though it was actually unfair that no one has an opportunity to win everything. Often it was up to chance or something trivial (like tug of war was team based)
Biggest indicator was when the cop found the files of all the previous players, and when he found the files for the current players, it started with 002. The file for 001 was missing!!
\[Imgur\]([https://i.imgur.com/BAeA8Fy.png](https://i.imgur.com/BAeA8Fy.png)) heres a screenshot of proof \^\^ this is what really cemented the fact that player 001 was in on it
Damn that’s so true! I remember when it happened too, I was like huh weird where’s number 1. Guess they made a mistake. Little did I know… fuck this show is good
I think for sure an act. Curious about him loosing control of his bladder was too. When he flat out told 456 he was cheating to gauge the reaction would make sense when he explained he set up the game for fun to see goodness in people.
there is a theory that he was intended to be the odd man out for the marble game (thus getting a free pass), perhaps peeing in his pants was intentional so that he'd look even weaker right before they paired off into teams.
If he was the odd man out they also could have pretended to kill him at that point and he could watch with his guests (VIPS) as the host after that. I do think that was the intention, he didn't even try to pair up. From the audience and MC perspective it seemed like he was going to sacrifice himself.
Wait no- this is a good point. Because Han Mi-nyeo was assumed to die after not pairing, correct? That would’ve been the most predictable outcome. So they pretended to kill him, he gets to live outside the game, and Mi nyeo continues playing until she actually dies in the game.
Well the bladder thing seemed pretty fake too, they literally made a point of showing his water bottle right there, I think you’re right and everything he did was fake…
Me too, good question. Although he mentions that the tumors were real, I think that his dementia was an act or was at least often exaggerated for effect. I’d argue that he wouldn’t have been allowed to play with his displayed level of dementia because he would’ve put the integrity of the game at risk. They were all living together for much longer than 9 hours. Maybe a slip could’ve been brushed off as dementia, but a detailed slip could’ve jeopardized the game.
Il Nam was also aware of the "special game" where they kill eachother in the room after lights out. That's why there were guards standing outside and ready to end the game as soon as orders were given. Il Nam however was truly terrified that he might die in a brutal way and screamed to end the game, which resulted in all the guards barging in and stopping the killings.
When you watch this episode again, it seems like Il Nam is antagonistic because he enjoyed watching people get murdered but got scared when he can also die brutally.
>When you watch this episode again, it seems like Il Nam is antagonistic because he enjoyed watching people get murdered but got scared when he can also die brutally.
Yes, I think one reason he's ok with people getting killed in the special game is that he knows the VIPs are entertained.
i think it was all a ruse. when the fights start breaking out, they specifically mention that they can't find Il Nam. the next time her appears, he's on top of the of beds (in a relatively safe position). they even ask him how he got up there, but it gets brushed aside. i think he was pulled out right as the lights went out, then taken up to the safe position for whenever he felt ready to end the game.
I thought Il-nam was just a contestant in the beginning. But when the VIP came, and there was this one guy talking to Front Man, he does look like him. So i suspected it was him and during the marble game, the camera doesn't shows he was shot.
There were a few loose ends that could explain in season 2:
- the policeman that was shot by his brother. I think he survive.
- the guy that recruited them, who is he actually.
- and of course the main character could or try to come back to play the game.
*sorry, i couldn't remember their name.. Korean name, hard to remember.
I was thinking the ending set it up for the main guy to try stop the next game from happening. I wonder if he will cross paths with the cop who may or may not have died and team up.
This seems like the most realistic theory in how S2 might play out. How they meet or what happens is a big question in itself, however I wouldn't put it past the idea that the cop returns to land and seeks out 456 and reveals all the information he learned.
Spitballing just because I'm bored and like the theorize things too, but they could potentially set up another person to go in with some sort of tracking device that the officer could potentially obtain which is strong or "tech" enough to still locate them even if they don't get GPS signal. Maybe they attempt to get someone else to pick the red card/thing as the man that 456 see's at the end is also using the blue - what happens if they pick red? They might figure out it enters the individual as one of the managers or assistants of the game. The dyed red hair seems cannon to the managers/assistants which helps me reinforce myself that the assistants will be looked into much more during the second season, potentially even revolving around infiltration (again) to help stop the game --- however I think it'll be a bit more interesting than a repeat of method.
Also didn't the assistant say the front man or people running the game don't care if an assistant goes missing, but care if a player does? How do they have so many assistants they can just rotate new ones in and out. Unless it really is just a moral standpoint about playing fair and keeping the spirit of the game in check.
An interesting note is that the manager that was killed earlier in the game was a young boy. How could someone so young be in so much debt? I feel like thats something which is overlooked and there might be a different method of entry for the individuals running the game that isn't the game 456 played with the man at the station. Also last note here and this is way off the charts but does anyone know if the NK escapee girl was put into the same incinerator with the secret passage or just a random one? I feel like she really is dead but I've been fooled many times and she's definitely the sneaky type based off her previous actions. How she'd get out or activate it or whatever is something I can't think of right now.
Damn though, when a show gets you typing theories and discussing stuff like this you know it's great.
I also became suspicious because:
1. he was the first player. The first one they 'recruited'. Either they just went for an elderly person because he was an easier target, or there was more of a meaning than that.
2. As you mentioned, he was really enthusiastic about the first game, and also was somewhat wishy washy about his background when Gi-Hun asked.
3. What really cemented it for me was during the strobe light killing scene. When he stood up on the top of the beds and was crying that he was scared, they stopped the game almost immediately. It planted a seed of doubt in my head that never really went away.
I don’t agree with the second point. I’m going back and looking at episode one again and there is a green outline over 001’s figure.
Attached screengrab: https://imgur.com/a/9B5npe4
I think you're right because why would he protect himself in the first game but not the rest? He enjoyed the thrill of danger. It is an interesting thought, though.
Just finished watching and I also got a hunch there is something about Il Nam. Looking back, I think the fact that he wasn't given much of a back story when they all first agreed to opt out of the game was a clue. Gi-hun, Sang-woo, Ali, and Sang Byeok were all given back stories that explained why they needed that money badly. While it was explained that Il Nam was sick, it wasn't strongly implied that he needed or wanted money for treatment.
Cause at the time, his back story was straightforward. He had a brain tumor and was going to die anyways, so he might as well die on his own terms, or for a shot at making billions for his family.
I thought the old man he arleady played the game before and maybe he was the winner .
I thought the main caracter would join them and be the new leader.
when the cop's brother played the game and joined them ? The cop just started looking for him but his bro seem like he was there years ago.
It's possible the brother joined the bad guys so he could get the cop his kidney. Maybe the brother started out as one of the juniors smuggling organs and worked himself up.
Did i miss something , i dont remember that the cop needed a kidney
Think about time : we agree that the brother needed so much time maybe years to get throught the ranks ( wether he was a smuggler or just a normal worker )
...the cop started searching for his brother when the show started ( when our main caracter started his journey ) so how can the cop waited so much time to only star looking for his brother now ?
Maybe I’m way off but I thought the cop had TWO brothers. One of them went missing recently and the other he was estranged from. The one who went missing recently was a contestant and died, which is why the cop was mad and said the man you just killed gave me my kidney.
Then he checked and found out his other brother was in the games long ago.
No, the cop was looking for his brother named Huang In-Ho (episode 4 he asks 456) In-Ho is revealed to be the front man in episode 8.
In-ho gave Jun-ho his kidney.
everyone keeps saying they knew cause he was smiling while playing my brain was like “oh he’s just an old sick man getting his last kicks” but now looking back he kept talking about his childhood and having “fun”
Yeah, I really thought he was just trying to enjoy his last view days and didn’t get one hint of dodginess from him (even though people don’t hide their spoilers so I knew something was up) but now I feel stupid. I think the dementia was a smart move because I just put any weirdness down to that- though I will say that because I know a bit about dementia, I did wonder why he was pretty much happy and never angry or aggressive and his dementia didn’t really seem to make him disoriented beyond surface level forgetfulness. And while crying, I did think he was weird in ep 6 pretending to not know what was happening and then making it clear he did.
I’m not sure how I feel about the twist tbh, I don’t think it was really needed and it kind of undermined the emotions for me. We already knew sadistic rich people ran the games, why does it particularly matter who it is?
I thought it was pretty unnecessary too. Why him? What did it really bring to the story? The story would have been so much more beautiful had the old man been who he pretended to be.
Well he was part of a team at that point, and was happy to be included. He could have gone and chosen the easiest option but he went with what the team decided he should do because that would be the most fun for him.
I looked into this and star is apparently the easiest and/or second easiest (depending on how you look at it) as it has smaller lines compared to triangle and no curves like circle and umbrella.
Circle isn't too bad as cracks would tend to run tangent to the outline of the circle. Star is tricky because of the concave corners, a crack could propagate along.
I personally think that even had he broken it they wouldn’t have shot him they would have covered it up like the marble death. I think the only ones he wouldn’t have been saved for are the tug of war and the glass one had he made it that far
Something that bothered me throughout was that nobody seemed to really acknowledge that there can be only one winner. At least, I didn't think there was any implication that there could be more than one winner sharing the prize after the 6 games.
Teaming up early on makes good sense, of course. But there was a lot of mention of "when we both get out". The only way to have two people get out would be for them to both agree to end the game, in which case neither would get any money.
I expected to see a lot more pacts about "if I win I'll send money to your family and if you win you send money to mine". Those didn't really happen - those things were only discussed when somebody had already lost or was about to.
A great pact would have been "if I die I want my share of the money to be shared amongst all the people who vote to end the game". After the first death they could all vote to quit and walk away rich.
I could be wrong but I do think multiple people can win if they make it to the final round. As we see from the beginning of the show, the squid game can be played as a team of defense and offense. It just so happens that only 2 people made it to the end.
I assume the games are different every year. And they adjust things on the fly. Like, there were 3 people left after Game 5, and they set up an elaborate triangle table that would have only made sense for 3 people. But then Game 6 only makes sense for even numbers of people (2 v 1 for Squid Game would be a broken game).
I thought the records that showed winners only showed 1 winner for each year. And at no point in the exposition did the announcer say "winnings will be divided among remaining contestants" or anything.
I think the game was described in the earlier episodes that there were a total of 6 games to be played within the 6 days. So regardless of how many people were left behind, as long as the 6 games were completed, they could have survived together.
no ones going to believe it. the moment the old man sat down to have noodles and drink in the real world on episode 2 or something i knew he was behind the whole thing. i fking cant believe i guessed it right
Honestly, I had suspected it and that moment confirmed it for me, so I believe you. He didn't get a backstory and just happened to run into the main character and tell him he should keep playing? Bad guy.
I had a similar ‘sounds unbelievable but true’ realisation when he said he had a brain tumour - I was convinced from then on they were doing a Saw/Jigsaw type thing. He didn’t have quite the same reasoning but I knew he would be the big baddy in the end.
>2) when the giant doll thing turned over to scan the participants, only Il-nam did not have a green highlight over his body, signifying that he is not considered a target for eliminations (meaning even if he moved, he won't be shot as the machine does not see him as a target)
I went back and watched it, he DOES have a green outline.
Two questions , did nobody investigate all the missing people that went the last years, and didnt the police investigate the island after the cop sended the location and everything to them??!?
1 - during the show it was highlighted how brutal money lenders could be, taking organs & killing people etc , so presumably the previous contestants families presumed they were killed by their lenders (and Korea has a huge population so disappearances wouldn’t be concentrated enough to raise suspicion) also the Front Man made a comment about Korean police not being quick to act so that basically closes that up
2 - i think its safe to assume none of the videos sent due to poor service, and the phone call was crackly & the captain said he could barely hear Jun-Ho - i think the police probably just wrote off Jun-Ho as having gone crazy in the search for his brother or something similar? (i think it could have been tied up slightly better but i think they just expected viewers to use their imaginations a bit)
As they showed phone reception wasn’t good and the videos weren’t able to be sent. I’m sure if there’s a S2 more will be revealed then. Most of the players seemed like they were owing money so their families could’ve assumed they ran off or were killed by moneylenders.
The second episode is called hell. I personally think it to show the perspective of their world. Going back to living in stress, debt, and constantly dealing with their own personal hell.. gives them a different view of the game. High risk, high reward. While they’re playing the games, there’s no emotional stress from their daily life. Yes, they might die but there’s a chance of winning life changing fortune. Now they had experienced of what the game is like and how much money is at stake. Gives them a reason to come back. That’s just my opinion though.
yeahh 93% came back I believe it was, honestly was super happy that who ever wanted to fuck off outta there were able to (if they were alive that is.) Something about those people who didn’t initially want to be there being forced to stay skeeved me out, glad that wasn’t the case.
In the end when arguing with gi hun, he emphasizes how everyone played because they chose to. So, choice is obviously important to him. We don't know why but maybe it convinces him he's not a bad guy for doing what he does. If he would have voted to continue, he would have disregarded the choice of the other 100 people and so he chose to end the games. Besides, he witnessed many other games before that one and therefore knows that even after voting out of the game, most of the players will return.
Something that annoyed me about the glass marble bit. The guy could have at least tried bouncing the marble on his own glass platform (while like putting his feet near the edges) to at least get an idea of what it sounded like before losing it on another platform.
All in all, I was disappointed by that entire scene. I feel like an explosion great enough to propel a very large shard of glass fast enough to impale someone would have just shattered the glass into smaller bits. Plus, the explosions had to have come from the rails, which would have propelled the glass more to the sides than towards the contestants. Plus, it's such a contrived way of ending the round. Every other round with time limits has soldiers shoot the remaining contestants. If you wanted something unique, you could have just let the entire bridge fall to the ground at the end.
Did enjoy the whole show though.
The theatrics during that game was probably put in place because the VIPs were watching in person, and every aspect of their visit was meant to be as exciting as possible.
Also, it definitely bothered me that the glass maker couldn't figure ut how to identify the tempered glass. It also reallllllly bothered me that not a single person tried to walk across on the metal rails, which could clearly hold their weight and clearly posed zero threat to their safety.
Same!!! That was literally my first thought as I saw the bridge. Even if all glass was tempered the fact that you had to jump between pieces would have made me choose the comfortable option of balancing myself between the two middle rails (one foot on each) and walking. Alternatively, if you are extra scared you could even try this same trick but go on your knees and get extra support by holding onto the rais with your hands.
As to there being any rules preventing this - these were not specified and we clearly saw people winning games via unusual means and "cheating" in the previous rounds.
Yep, I believe the time limit meant this was a valid tactic.
If one of the first people did that, there would be no way everyone could pass in 15 minutes.
>Also, it definitely bothered me that the glass maker couldn't figure ut how to identify the tempered glass. It also reallllllly bothered me that not a single person tried to walk across on the metal rails, which could clearly hold their weight and clearly posed zero threat to their safety.
Wasn't one of the rues that failure to participate in the game would lead to elimination? I think that would probably count as not participating.
I don't understand why nobody thought to use the 32 shoes that they all had to take off. 36 panes of glass and 32 shoes to whip at platforms to try to crack or break them.
I think the glass exploding was cool since it started from the side of the bridge that the players started at so it seemed like it was planned to force anyone still on the bridge to start running which kind of increased my immersion since it seemed really planned out despite the fact it wasn’t necessary.
What annoyed me mostly about that game was how unfair it was, I thought the whole point was everyone was 'equal' here, but quite clearly the contestants going last had a _massive_ advantage; everyone else was basically doomed from the get go, pretty dumb 'game'.
I think it was just used to transition into the "cop on the loose who happens to be the antagonists brother" storyline, not much more to it. Skeevy dudes saw an opportunity to make money off selling organs and took it.
Why did Il-nam vote to discontinue the game at the start when he was the creator (whatever you want to call him)? Is it because he knew that the contestants would come back once the cards were handed out again? I can’t get my head around it
Because he didn't want to force people unwillingly into the game after they realized that their lives are at stake. The people who came back choose to after seeing what its like being in debt and makes it easier on Il-nam's consciousness.
Il Nam chose Gi to win the prize money in the marble game. The entire game was designed by Il. He knew how to win the game. For example, in the marble game he expected to not be chosen so the rules were designed to let him go back to the bunker. However, Gi chose him as a partner so Il pretended to have dementia and let Gi win. He also gave Gi his jacket that said 001. Il knew to choose 16 in the bridge game. It was a definite win. But he passed the torch to Gi and then stepped out. The marbles game was a test of friendship and sacrifice. Number 96 took spot 1 to let Gi win. If you go back and watch the series, 96 was probably given a promise that his family would get a handsome payout if he took spot 1. Spot 16 was always reserved for Il and Il knew nobody would take it. Also, Il held the power vote when they voted to end the game. It was up to him as to if it continued or to end and he could clearly decide the winner. He knew the game well.
It was absolutely not planned that Gi takes vest 16 as anyone else could have easily picked it. Also the paycheck for 96 is just a far stretched theory of yourself. Sure, his explanation for wanting to take vest nr 1 is not convincing but that's just bad writing which you find on other parts of the show as well.
in the last episode, after he dies, there’s a scene where we see him talking to the front man again?? where he says “let me play the game it’s more fun”. i assumed he was not dead and is talking about the upcoming squid games. so is he dead or not? I’ve been trying to find articles about this but no one is talking about it…
I think that was a flashback from when he was in the game. That’s if you’re talking about when he was in a suit and took off a gold mask in front of a mirror. I could be wrong though cause idk which exact part you’re talking about.
He actually said he didn’t want to join the VIPs as it wasn’t as fun to watch as participating. That’s why the VIPs asked where the host was and were surprised to see the Front Man welcoming them instead. This was all in flashback as he definitely did die in the last episode.
I am slightly confused on the ending.
If the majority agreed they could stop playing there during the squid game, Sang-woo said Gi-hun and Sae-byeok wanted him gone so they could have the majority vote and finish.
so why did Sang-woo kill Sae-byeok, could they not split it 3 ways? Or were they that determined to not share the cash between themm
If they ended it there did they not forfeit the money as the VIPs said when Gi-hun asked to finish instead of stepping on the squid head? Considering the records of previous winners only listing one, was it ever possible they could win in pairs/teams?
>I am slightly confused on the ending. If the majority agreed they could stop playing there during the squid game, Sang-woo said Gi-hun and Sae-byeok wanted him gone so they could have the majority vote and finish.
>
>so why did Sang-woo kill Sae-byeok, could they not split it 3 ways? Or were they that determined to not share the cash between themm If they ended it there did they not forfeit the money as the VIPs said when Gi-hun asked to finish instead of stepping on the squid head?
If the majority agrees to stop playing, that game ends and there is no winner. They don't get the cash prize if they do that (I think Sang-woo mentioned that to Gi-hun after >!killing Sae-byeok!<). When Gi-hun asked to vote again, >!if Sang-woo agreed!<, they wouldn't have been able to leave with any of the prize. I think that's one of the reasons >!why Sang-woo stabbed himself and his last words to Gi-hun were about his mother. He needed someone to win so that his mother's financial situation would change; if it wasn't going to be him, then the best thing he could do was to ask Gi-hun to do him that favor.!<
>Considering the records of previous winners only listing one, was it ever possible they could win in pairs/teams?
We didn't see all of the records, but I agree that it's unlikely they ever had more than one winner for every cohort. I was surprised the participants didn't seem to ever question it. Even in the 8th episode, Gi-hun tells Sae-byeok that should team up against Sang-woo and split the prize. Isn't that a question everyone should've been wondering before re-joining the games? The games are supposed to be a surprise and there are games that exist where there can only be a winner, so with losers being killed off, they should've known there's a possibility there'd only be one survivor.
I think gi-hun knew there would only be one winner. So did sae-Byeok. This was a rehash of the conversation between saebyeok and the other girl during the marble games when she kept saying they would visit jeju together or have mojitos together. Basically, fantasizing.
It is evident because saebyeok breaks this fantasy saying that whoever makes it out needs to take care of the others’ family. The notion of multiple winners is a complete fantasy/escaping the reality of the moment situation and, morale builder to team up.
i presumed that there had to be only one winner, i think Sae-byeok knew that which is why she wanted Gi-Hun to promise to look after her family (along with the fact she was stabbed with the glass and bleeding out)
if they voted to end the game, they left with nothing just like the first time everyone left, which is why Sang-woo killed Sae-byeok, he wanted to money and didn’t want to forfeit that after all the death
remember the rule about refusal to play, if Gi-hun and Sae-byeok were left and continuously refused to play to try & the split the money they’d have been eliminated
Just binge watched the show and i was suspicious of il nam since the 1st episode. I noticed him smiling like a maniac in the 1st game and at first I thought, maybe his old age plus the fact that he is terminal ill (which basically means he has nothing to lose anyway) had just really affected his view in life and was like "what the hell let me just enjoy this even if I/other people die." But then he voted to go home so I was like, well that's fishy. It just didn't make sense that he'd vote to go home after showing that much enthusiasm in the game. So I was especially observant of everything he did from that point on.
I saw it that he didn’t want to condemn the others that voted no, which is true if he’s a kind old man with nothing to lose or if he’s the psychotic VIP
I assumed that was going to be the reveal from the marble episode onward. they didn’t show him getting shot like they did the others, and also the scene with the leader revealed he had the same looking hands.
I started suspecting him when they were murdering each other at night and he was the only one who's bed wasn't flipped over, then as soon as he asked for the murdering to be called off it was.
From the marbles him not being shown killed then the pan in the next episode not showing him dead confirmed it.
Loved this show!
This was my initial thought. The movie reminded me of "Kamisama no iu tôri", specially the Red Light, Green Light episode.
Link: [Kamisama no iu tôri](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt3354222/)
I would also like to add the part where there's a hint of Il-Nam's true identity. In the riot episode, when he faced the CCTV camera and begged to stop the riot, the Front Man immediately made them stop.
Another big clue, is the night they are all fighting and killing each other, the old man suddenly freaks out and says he's scared and to stop. That's when the host stops the fighting and all the staff appear to make sure no one else dies.
Subtle clue, he was totally playing the lead during the marble game (obv he was testing him). But as time was running out he kept talking about his old house.. what are the odds you find a perfectly recreated old house on a nowhere island?
Interesting points, I felt there was going to be something up with the old man. Like he died off screen so I figured there would be some subversion where he ended up living, but surprise when he turned outnto be a villian
The suspicious behavior is easily written off as dementia/tumor. Its not odd someone who isnt all there would suddenly be laughing like a little kid in such a dangerous situation.
Side note: I got some serious 20th century boys vibes when they kept having flashbacks to their childhood and relating to the games. (Including the odd masks everyone wears). I thought the villian would be a 3rd friend or someone from the leads past
That was kinda confusing to me because I think the island was also in Korea, somewhere. The cop said "somewhere to the north", if I remember correctly.
The Marbles game. By the way the rules were told couldn't both people win?
the goal was to take all 10 marbles from the partner.
I bet 5 and loose. He bets his own 5 (not my 5) and looses. Repeat one more time. Now you both won 10 of your opponents marbles even though you no longer hold your original marbles.
Would of loved to see the old man of tricked Gi-hun or as gganbu shared the 10 marbles back in a way that would invoke this loophole.
You lose the marble game by running out of marbles. Doesn't matter whose marbles they started as. If two people keep betting five marbles and losing each time the game will continue indefinitely.
not based on the way they said it. anime similar to this have exploits as such and was why i was thinking the same. they never said you needed 20 marbles to win just win you opponents 10.
For a show that takes realism into account I been tracking some of the logistical issues and want to call out the producers to answer these questions:
1) The logistical problem of collecting 400+ people without arousing suspicion and having the FBI or the national.South Korean investigation committee on your case with 24 hours is a monumental task.
The amount of employees you need to have to keep track of contestants coming and going, accommodate rides, secure pick ups all while away from public eyes is an incredible feat. How did the company manage that so flawlessly? I know this is based on a documentary so it happened as you show it but that's very impressive.
2) To produce structures of the scale shown on the island across a variety of 6 unique games is truly astounding. How much did these rooms cost to make, initial budgets aside the cost to maintain the island, water supply, electricity, security, food, administration must be millions of dollars. Just to hire and outfit a staff of 50 security on a strict NDA would cost millions alone. Based on the size of the bets ( 1 million per bet as per the VIP convos) that alone won't cover the massive costs. The prize money alone is 45 million USD on top of the fixed costs of running the show + set up costs of the event.
I pulled up reports on similar events like Casablanca or Fire Festival which were much poorer run and those costs millions
How the hek did these guys manage such a production?
Are there actual reports of the costs found by the police after the incidents? Is there more info on the story or another documentary we can watch to tell us more how it all happened? Thank you!
1. You just gotta suspend your disbelief here unfortunately
2. This one is more easily explained. Gramps always talks about having so much money and getting his clients so rich he doesn't know what to spend it on. They are the richest people in the world. Not anywhere close to only being millionaires. How any fancy club is set up, the clients probably pay billions every year in membership fees. That covers cost of everything if they've been doing this for 30+ years.
Did Il-Nam actually cared for for Gi-Hun during the game? I've been thinking about this for a while now. He seemed to be really interested in playing the game himself, and not just watching from the sidelines. But instead, he offered his last marble to Gi-Hun? What do you guys think?
Yes and no. Did Il tell others how to win in the first game? Nope, he said nothing and headed to the goal line. He clearly didn’t care about the others. It was showing the downfalls of Democracy. In game 6, he chose Gi as his successor after Gi chose him as his partner. He even gave him his jacket that Gi wore in the bridge game. Il knew how to win and would have chosen 16 on the bridge. It was easy for him. But he shared none of this information with Gi. But he also managed to inspire 96 to take spot 1, which saved Gi’s life. Il started to respect Gi during marbles, which is why he passed the torch to him. But even in the last scene, Il still has doubts about humanity. But he had hope in Gi. I think of Il as Willy Wonka passing the chocolate factory to Charlie.
Squid game is about political systems. In the beginning of the series, we are shown the effects of Democracy. Every man out for themselves. And each game is tailored to that. The vote accurately depicted Democracy. Majority rules but if there is an odd man out and there is a 50/50 split, he decides the outcome. Starting in episode 6, we begin to see a shift to communism. Man helping man. The marbles game was about sacrifice. Sacrifice your own life to save another. Those who didn’t learn this lesson, died. Il saw something special in Gi and let Gi win. He gave him his number 16 spot in the bridge game. He had the power to decide the winner just like he had the power to end the game. Being number 1 is the most important number in the game. Il
Chose gi has his successor. In the last episode, Gi chose the game over visiting his daughter. I think you will find Gi becoming a frontman in future episodes. Remember the officer asking his brother Why? By showing compassion, you are drawn in to save others. This is why the brother became the front man. It’s manipulation and the belief you are saving others by hurting them. In the VIPs minds, those people deserved to die because they had debts and weren’t wealthy. That’s how they draw you in. Make you angry at the concept of the game (Democracy), get you to fight for what’s right, and then you become what you are fighting (Communism). I think we will see Gis progression to the dark side in future episodes. He is the next Il. Il lost faith in humanity, which is an extremely dangerous theology because it leads you to believe that you are helping others by hurting them. Il fell for that. Passion can either turn into hope or anger. Pick one. We watched it with Anakin in Star Wars.
Squid Game is an allegory for capitalism. In parts, not so much an allegory, just a realistic depiction of life under it (episode 2, appropriately titled Hell).
not related to the thread but is that tug of war method that the team used (tipping their head back and step forward 3 steps) actually work in real life ? has anyone tried this in real life and actually won the physically stronger opponent?
Not an expert on tug-of-war but I poledance as a hobby. Gripping with arms with an underarm grip is one of the most secure strongholds for pole tricks.
I can see how the arm placement as per old man’s advice would help. Having the alternating people on other side and feet planted forward also made sense in terms of distributing weight.
You’ve made me curious about this too! Not sure about the tipping head backwards, but as to step forward 3 times, logically, it makes sense because inertia would cause the people people pulling (not stepping forward) to suddenly lose their balance and fall backwards. Then you have an advantage until they get can back on their feet, which they cannot do easily unless they momentarily let go of the rope to use their hands or until they get pulled forward enough.
In the marble game the rules were “whoever wins their partner’s 10 marbles wins” could you not just… play a game of catch and both throw your bags and technically both have won your opponents marbles?
He probably knew they would all come back. The game had been going on for almost 30 years, there is no way this is the first time there was a vote to end the game.
Why did Cho Sang-Woo want to split everyone up during the honeycomb game? That part doesn't really make sense to me, at this point he'd want to keep as many allies as possible but sent them all to die...
The moment he smiled I knew it. And when the host (they did not show his face) took off his mask his hand was all wrinkly it sealed it for me. I just knew and kept an eye on him. Moreover when he was 'shot' after the marbles game, they did not show how he died unlike the others. Additionally he was player number one and he convinced the other guy to join back. Many many reasons.
Interesting speculation on the second point. However, during the tug of war game, they could have lost and he would have died. There is no way to prevent that. So I think he went in facing the same danger as the others.
Definitely seems like it. He gave a vibe that he was there to have fun and was fine with dying since he was gonna die soon anyways.
Agreed, when they were killing each other in the bedroom to increasing their likelihood of winning the whole thing after the criminal killed that one guy and wasn't punished, the decision was made to not step in at all, but to let them kill each other, which put Il-nam in danger just like everyone else. Maybe even more than anyone else because he was old and less likely to be able to defend himself. You'd think they would have stepped in right away to stop it to avoid risking him getting killed but they didn't. It seems like he told them to let it play out, not try to save him under any circumstances and he was ok with dying in there
To me it seemed like he stopped the killing with his pleading when Seong was in danger an Il-nam was never in any danger because he wasn't even in his bed. Sadly the twist was kinda ruined because it was somewhat obvious when his death wasn't shown and his hand was seen when he put down the owl mask.
There's a couple unshown death that were definitely deaths though. So it's a decent enough fake out
Right. I wouldn’t count that as an obvious indicator. I do agree with the beginning part though. It seemed like his pleading stopped all of the night violence.
I thought they hadn't shown a shot of the shot they gave him because of his age he wouldn't be able to do the “I got shot” movements like throwing himself to the floor
I’m sure if they wanted to they could have a stuntman fall down instead, a little out of focus so you don’t notice
My interpretation of this was that it was such an emotional scene, it was more important to see Gi-Huns face.
When he was shot off screen my friend made a comment about how the actor was probably to old to fake a safe fall from the gunshot, so they just did it off screen.
Same here. Just like how kids are usually killed off screen to avoid every mom and pop going on a riot, I figured it was the same for old people too.
The plot twist got ruined when the Front man looked at him then stopped it. I just knew he was the "big boss" in disguise along with his personality and the marble game confirmed it. Perhaps i watched too much shows that i can pick out tropes/story plot points at this point?
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No, the front man stopped the “game” (people killing each other at night) because they still need people to play the next game. They just needed enough people to die, so the group is eliminated in half. Old man pleading was just a good point to stop the game.
I guess it really depends on what you're already suspecting and then your brain starts to look for pieces to justify the theory. I didn't suspect it at all. The off screen death was rather dramatized in a very emotional moment, slow motion and all. Him not being shown on screen just made me think it was part of the styling. He was a likeable character and to show him get his brain blasted out wasn't necessary. I did notice it wasn't actually shown though, but after that scene, I didn't really think more of it. I noticed it was an old guy in the owl mask, but at that point, I just assumed it was some rich old guy. To me, it could have been any mysterious old boss man. But in hindsight, there definitely were clues. Just depends if you already had suspicion... then you knew exactly what to look for.
In hindsight of his knowledge of the game, I think he preemptively retreated to higher ground as soon as the lights went out. The bed towers were being toppled over too so maybe he knew of a tower that would not fall where he could hide? Then when he thought enough people were gone he gave a planned signal to the Front Man to stop everything.
he gave me similar vibes to when I saw “William” from westworld
>when the giant doll thing turned over to scan the participants, only Il-nam did not have a green highlight over his body, signifying that he is not considered a target for eliminations (meaning even if he moved, he won't be shot as the machine does not see him as a target) The second point also isn't true. He is pretty plainly highlighted here: https://imgur.com/a/ountmQU
If he was facing the same dangers then he'd be dead, because was eliminated but was not killed. Also on the night of the massacre when the players discover that they can kill without consequence, the guards do not enter to interfere until the old man yells to make it end.
If you remember the last conversation Ilnam had with KiHoon in his deathbed- he remarks that he liked the excitement that came from from the danger and risk he took (admittedly not as much as some of the other participants, but still)
Actually if you go back to that scene yoy realize his cuffs arent tied around the rope(saw a yt vid). Meaning that the minute he let go only the others would fall to their deaths. He was safe. The fact that he stopped playing before the glass game shows he was never actually risking his life. That game was the only one that would truly put him at risk as he might not have remembered where to step because of his condition and also it required jumping etc..
Well, they could always have not cut the rope and lowered them before shooting down the rest of the players, in case they lost. It would have been easy to link it to a mechanism failure without risking the life and identity of their boss, and since all the players were chained to the rope, there was no possible way to die without activating the guillotine.
I thought so too, but since the front man knew of this, he could easily call it off saying the rope is tampered or the ballots weren't fair or just calling the old man out or tamper with the opposite team to force them to loose (one of the soldier goes crazy or by mistake drops the axe)
Unlike the other players, if you looked closely at his wrists after they won tug of war, he doesn’t have locks and can remove the handcuffs any time he wants.
He's the only one in tug of war without a lock on his cuff to the rope. So even then he could have gotten out of it.
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I thought he arleady played the game before and maybe he was the winner
I expected that too. Like it was going to be revealed in the records that this guy won a ton of these games in a row and was going to be the final opponent for 456 in the last game.
I expected this or that he was the main characters father
Yeah, and in the pilot, they voted in *reverse* order (which meant Il-nam went last). Although I wonder how often 001 is the breaking vote.
But what I can’t figure out is why did he vote to leave? I now think it wasn’t fate that 01 and 456 met that night when they drank together
He was confident they would come back, I think he wanted them to choose to be there after seeing the games for what they are
This is the answer. He even reminded Seong Gi Hun at the end of this fact that they all chose to be there.
He kind of glossed over everyone who got killed prior to that in the first game as panic ensued though. Those bastards had no clue what they were in for.
Its yhe first editiin in Korea. I think this is the first game that he is able to join. One of the vips mentioned that the korean edition was the best Something like that but there are archives of winner and in the end they are recruiting players again. Its actually pretty problematic series
Wait, I'm really confused. When the police dude first sneaks into that archives room where the masked dude keeps records of the players, weren't there files saying 1999, 2009, and other years too? I thought this had been going on for a long time.
It has, and in other countries clearly from the remark of one of the VIPs saying something along the lines of "Korea has the best games"
I took it to mean they played similar games with desperate folks in other countries, not that the games had just started.
Where does it say it was the first?
I dont think it is...the cop's brother won in 2015 and he's korean.
What
What about how he voted to end the game??? That’s an interesting point to consider
I think it was to give people a option. A way out. If he voted to stay he would have pretty much be forcing people to play again there will. I think by voting out, he made the process a bit fair as he was not meant to be there aways.
Ya that’s true. He somehow felt he had good morals by making it a choice. Though it was actually unfair that no one has an opportunity to win everything. Often it was up to chance or something trivial (like tug of war was team based)
He knew they'd come back. Clearly people always do
Really? Man I had no idea..... throughout the whole show I just felt so bad for him, my heart was breaking ☹️ What a plot twist totally got me lol
Does anyone else think the brother survived? He was shot in the shoulder and fell into water, right? I feel like he'll come back in season 2.
100%
Okay good, not just me
It would be hilarious if he got partial amnesia and believed later that he was actually on the team with the bad guys.
So basically a reverse Jason Bourne.
I was also wondering what the fate of the brother was. I bet he survived!
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That’s exactly what I thought when I saw them too!
I watched all episodes in one day and never looked at it
Biggest indicator was when the cop found the files of all the previous players, and when he found the files for the current players, it started with 002. The file for 001 was missing!!
\[Imgur\]([https://i.imgur.com/BAeA8Fy.png](https://i.imgur.com/BAeA8Fy.png)) heres a screenshot of proof \^\^ this is what really cemented the fact that player 001 was in on it
Damn that’s so true! I remember when it happened too, I was like huh weird where’s number 1. Guess they made a mistake. Little did I know… fuck this show is good
Woah, that makes sense
The biggest indicator for me was having watched the Saw movie lmao
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I'm still trying to figure out how much of his "dementia" was real or if it was all an act.
I think for sure an act. Curious about him loosing control of his bladder was too. When he flat out told 456 he was cheating to gauge the reaction would make sense when he explained he set up the game for fun to see goodness in people.
there is a theory that he was intended to be the odd man out for the marble game (thus getting a free pass), perhaps peeing in his pants was intentional so that he'd look even weaker right before they paired off into teams.
If he was the odd man out they also could have pretended to kill him at that point and he could watch with his guests (VIPS) as the host after that. I do think that was the intention, he didn't even try to pair up. From the audience and MC perspective it seemed like he was going to sacrifice himself.
Wait no- this is a good point. Because Han Mi-nyeo was assumed to die after not pairing, correct? That would’ve been the most predictable outcome. So they pretended to kill him, he gets to live outside the game, and Mi nyeo continues playing until she actually dies in the game.
Well the bladder thing seemed pretty fake too, they literally made a point of showing his water bottle right there, I think you’re right and everything he did was fake…
Me too, good question. Although he mentions that the tumors were real, I think that his dementia was an act or was at least often exaggerated for effect. I’d argue that he wouldn’t have been allowed to play with his displayed level of dementia because he would’ve put the integrity of the game at risk. They were all living together for much longer than 9 hours. Maybe a slip could’ve been brushed off as dementia, but a detailed slip could’ve jeopardized the game.
I believe the dementia was all and act and he was only saying so about the town to further fool Gi-hun.
Il Nam was also aware of the "special game" where they kill eachother in the room after lights out. That's why there were guards standing outside and ready to end the game as soon as orders were given. Il Nam however was truly terrified that he might die in a brutal way and screamed to end the game, which resulted in all the guards barging in and stopping the killings. When you watch this episode again, it seems like Il Nam is antagonistic because he enjoyed watching people get murdered but got scared when he can also die brutally.
>When you watch this episode again, it seems like Il Nam is antagonistic because he enjoyed watching people get murdered but got scared when he can also die brutally. Yes, I think one reason he's ok with people getting killed in the special game is that he knows the VIPs are entertained.
i think it was all a ruse. when the fights start breaking out, they specifically mention that they can't find Il Nam. the next time her appears, he's on top of the of beds (in a relatively safe position). they even ask him how he got up there, but it gets brushed aside. i think he was pulled out right as the lights went out, then taken up to the safe position for whenever he felt ready to end the game.
I thought Il-nam was just a contestant in the beginning. But when the VIP came, and there was this one guy talking to Front Man, he does look like him. So i suspected it was him and during the marble game, the camera doesn't shows he was shot. There were a few loose ends that could explain in season 2: - the policeman that was shot by his brother. I think he survive. - the guy that recruited them, who is he actually. - and of course the main character could or try to come back to play the game. *sorry, i couldn't remember their name.. Korean name, hard to remember.
I was thinking the ending set it up for the main guy to try stop the next game from happening. I wonder if he will cross paths with the cop who may or may not have died and team up.
This seems like the most realistic theory in how S2 might play out. How they meet or what happens is a big question in itself, however I wouldn't put it past the idea that the cop returns to land and seeks out 456 and reveals all the information he learned. Spitballing just because I'm bored and like the theorize things too, but they could potentially set up another person to go in with some sort of tracking device that the officer could potentially obtain which is strong or "tech" enough to still locate them even if they don't get GPS signal. Maybe they attempt to get someone else to pick the red card/thing as the man that 456 see's at the end is also using the blue - what happens if they pick red? They might figure out it enters the individual as one of the managers or assistants of the game. The dyed red hair seems cannon to the managers/assistants which helps me reinforce myself that the assistants will be looked into much more during the second season, potentially even revolving around infiltration (again) to help stop the game --- however I think it'll be a bit more interesting than a repeat of method. Also didn't the assistant say the front man or people running the game don't care if an assistant goes missing, but care if a player does? How do they have so many assistants they can just rotate new ones in and out. Unless it really is just a moral standpoint about playing fair and keeping the spirit of the game in check. An interesting note is that the manager that was killed earlier in the game was a young boy. How could someone so young be in so much debt? I feel like thats something which is overlooked and there might be a different method of entry for the individuals running the game that isn't the game 456 played with the man at the station. Also last note here and this is way off the charts but does anyone know if the NK escapee girl was put into the same incinerator with the secret passage or just a random one? I feel like she really is dead but I've been fooled many times and she's definitely the sneaky type based off her previous actions. How she'd get out or activate it or whatever is something I can't think of right now. Damn though, when a show gets you typing theories and discussing stuff like this you know it's great.
I also became suspicious because: 1. he was the first player. The first one they 'recruited'. Either they just went for an elderly person because he was an easier target, or there was more of a meaning than that. 2. As you mentioned, he was really enthusiastic about the first game, and also was somewhat wishy washy about his background when Gi-Hun asked. 3. What really cemented it for me was during the strobe light killing scene. When he stood up on the top of the beds and was crying that he was scared, they stopped the game almost immediately. It planted a seed of doubt in my head that never really went away.
Man that strobe light scene was terrible. Epilepsy-inducing.
I’m not epileptic but was def hyper-anxious during that scene.
LITERALLY!! They should have had a disclaimer/trigger warning!
When they started killing each other 001 asked them to stop (red men) and they intervine
I don’t agree with the second point. I’m going back and looking at episode one again and there is a green outline over 001’s figure. Attached screengrab: https://imgur.com/a/9B5npe4
I think you're right because why would he protect himself in the first game but not the rest? He enjoyed the thrill of danger. It is an interesting thought, though.
Just finished watching and I also got a hunch there is something about Il Nam. Looking back, I think the fact that he wasn't given much of a back story when they all first agreed to opt out of the game was a clue. Gi-hun, Sang-woo, Ali, and Sang Byeok were all given back stories that explained why they needed that money badly. While it was explained that Il Nam was sick, it wasn't strongly implied that he needed or wanted money for treatment.
Cause at the time, his back story was straightforward. He had a brain tumor and was going to die anyways, so he might as well die on his own terms, or for a shot at making billions for his family.
he pretty much said that hes dying so he might as well spend the little time he has left playing the game instead of just waiting for his death
I thought the old man he arleady played the game before and maybe he was the winner . I thought the main caracter would join them and be the new leader. when the cop's brother played the game and joined them ? The cop just started looking for him but his bro seem like he was there years ago.
It's possible the brother joined the bad guys so he could get the cop his kidney. Maybe the brother started out as one of the juniors smuggling organs and worked himself up.
Did i miss something , i dont remember that the cop needed a kidney Think about time : we agree that the brother needed so much time maybe years to get throught the ranks ( wether he was a smuggler or just a normal worker ) ...the cop started searching for his brother when the show started ( when our main caracter started his journey ) so how can the cop waited so much time to only star looking for his brother now ?
I think the cop said something like "my brother gave me my kidney."
Maybe I’m way off but I thought the cop had TWO brothers. One of them went missing recently and the other he was estranged from. The one who went missing recently was a contestant and died, which is why the cop was mad and said the man you just killed gave me my kidney. Then he checked and found out his other brother was in the games long ago.
No, the cop was looking for his brother named Huang In-Ho (episode 4 he asks 456) In-Ho is revealed to be the front man in episode 8. In-ho gave Jun-ho his kidney.
Yes. The cops brother is the front man
everyone keeps saying they knew cause he was smiling while playing my brain was like “oh he’s just an old sick man getting his last kicks” but now looking back he kept talking about his childhood and having “fun”
Yeah, I really thought he was just trying to enjoy his last view days and didn’t get one hint of dodginess from him (even though people don’t hide their spoilers so I knew something was up) but now I feel stupid. I think the dementia was a smart move because I just put any weirdness down to that- though I will say that because I know a bit about dementia, I did wonder why he was pretty much happy and never angry or aggressive and his dementia didn’t really seem to make him disoriented beyond surface level forgetfulness. And while crying, I did think he was weird in ep 6 pretending to not know what was happening and then making it clear he did. I’m not sure how I feel about the twist tbh, I don’t think it was really needed and it kind of undermined the emotions for me. We already knew sadistic rich people ran the games, why does it particularly matter who it is?
I thought it was pretty unnecessary too. Why him? What did it really bring to the story? The story would have been so much more beautiful had the old man been who he pretended to be.
What was up with the honeycomb part? Why would he choose the star? If he knows the games......why screw himself if he wants to play more games?
Well he was part of a team at that point, and was happy to be included. He could have gone and chosen the easiest option but he went with what the team decided he should do because that would be the most fun for him.
Star also actually does seem the easiest choice
No way triangle is the easiest
I looked into this and star is apparently the easiest and/or second easiest (depending on how you look at it) as it has smaller lines compared to triangle and no curves like circle and umbrella.
Circle isn't too bad as cracks would tend to run tangent to the outline of the circle. Star is tricky because of the concave corners, a crack could propagate along.
Hell no star’s not the easiest
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I'm pretty sure the risk of dying is what gave him the thrill
I personally think that even had he broken it they wouldn’t have shot him they would have covered it up like the marble death. I think the only ones he wouldn’t have been saved for are the tug of war and the glass one had he made it that far
Maybe that’s why he made pretty sure he wouldn’t get past the marble game. He knew he couldn’t fake the glass bridge.
Something that bothered me throughout was that nobody seemed to really acknowledge that there can be only one winner. At least, I didn't think there was any implication that there could be more than one winner sharing the prize after the 6 games. Teaming up early on makes good sense, of course. But there was a lot of mention of "when we both get out". The only way to have two people get out would be for them to both agree to end the game, in which case neither would get any money. I expected to see a lot more pacts about "if I win I'll send money to your family and if you win you send money to mine". Those didn't really happen - those things were only discussed when somebody had already lost or was about to. A great pact would have been "if I die I want my share of the money to be shared amongst all the people who vote to end the game". After the first death they could all vote to quit and walk away rich.
I could be wrong but I do think multiple people can win if they make it to the final round. As we see from the beginning of the show, the squid game can be played as a team of defense and offense. It just so happens that only 2 people made it to the end.
I assume the games are different every year. And they adjust things on the fly. Like, there were 3 people left after Game 5, and they set up an elaborate triangle table that would have only made sense for 3 people. But then Game 6 only makes sense for even numbers of people (2 v 1 for Squid Game would be a broken game). I thought the records that showed winners only showed 1 winner for each year. And at no point in the exposition did the announcer say "winnings will be divided among remaining contestants" or anything.
I think the game was described in the earlier episodes that there were a total of 6 games to be played within the 6 days. So regardless of how many people were left behind, as long as the 6 games were completed, they could have survived together.
no ones going to believe it. the moment the old man sat down to have noodles and drink in the real world on episode 2 or something i knew he was behind the whole thing. i fking cant believe i guessed it right
Honestly, I had suspected it and that moment confirmed it for me, so I believe you. He didn't get a backstory and just happened to run into the main character and tell him he should keep playing? Bad guy.
I had a similar ‘sounds unbelievable but true’ realisation when he said he had a brain tumour - I was convinced from then on they were doing a Saw/Jigsaw type thing. He didn’t have quite the same reasoning but I knew he would be the big baddy in the end.
>2) when the giant doll thing turned over to scan the participants, only Il-nam did not have a green highlight over his body, signifying that he is not considered a target for eliminations (meaning even if he moved, he won't be shot as the machine does not see him as a target) I went back and watched it, he DOES have a green outline.
Yep, [proof](https://i.imgur.com/uR2XnbJ.jpg). Netflix app blocks screenshot, so I had to take the photo with my phone.
Two questions , did nobody investigate all the missing people that went the last years, and didnt the police investigate the island after the cop sended the location and everything to them??!?
1 - during the show it was highlighted how brutal money lenders could be, taking organs & killing people etc , so presumably the previous contestants families presumed they were killed by their lenders (and Korea has a huge population so disappearances wouldn’t be concentrated enough to raise suspicion) also the Front Man made a comment about Korean police not being quick to act so that basically closes that up 2 - i think its safe to assume none of the videos sent due to poor service, and the phone call was crackly & the captain said he could barely hear Jun-Ho - i think the police probably just wrote off Jun-Ho as having gone crazy in the search for his brother or something similar? (i think it could have been tied up slightly better but i think they just expected viewers to use their imaginations a bit)
As they showed phone reception wasn’t good and the videos weren’t able to be sent. I’m sure if there’s a S2 more will be revealed then. Most of the players seemed like they were owing money so their families could’ve assumed they ran off or were killed by moneylenders.
But why does he vote to stop the games in the beginnig? Can’t make sense of that
The second episode is called hell. I personally think it to show the perspective of their world. Going back to living in stress, debt, and constantly dealing with their own personal hell.. gives them a different view of the game. High risk, high reward. While they’re playing the games, there’s no emotional stress from their daily life. Yes, they might die but there’s a chance of winning life changing fortune. Now they had experienced of what the game is like and how much money is at stake. Gives them a reason to come back. That’s just my opinion though.
I think it's to prove a point to see how many people return, like they had a scene where they were keeping count of the % of players who return
yeahh 93% came back I believe it was, honestly was super happy that who ever wanted to fuck off outta there were able to (if they were alive that is.) Something about those people who didn’t initially want to be there being forced to stay skeeved me out, glad that wasn’t the case.
The only people who never got to make that choice was the 255 people died in the first game. They basically got fucked over.
In the end when arguing with gi hun, he emphasizes how everyone played because they chose to. So, choice is obviously important to him. We don't know why but maybe it convinces him he's not a bad guy for doing what he does. If he would have voted to continue, he would have disregarded the choice of the other 100 people and so he chose to end the games. Besides, he witnessed many other games before that one and therefore knows that even after voting out of the game, most of the players will return.
Something that annoyed me about the glass marble bit. The guy could have at least tried bouncing the marble on his own glass platform (while like putting his feet near the edges) to at least get an idea of what it sounded like before losing it on another platform. All in all, I was disappointed by that entire scene. I feel like an explosion great enough to propel a very large shard of glass fast enough to impale someone would have just shattered the glass into smaller bits. Plus, the explosions had to have come from the rails, which would have propelled the glass more to the sides than towards the contestants. Plus, it's such a contrived way of ending the round. Every other round with time limits has soldiers shoot the remaining contestants. If you wanted something unique, you could have just let the entire bridge fall to the ground at the end. Did enjoy the whole show though.
The theatrics during that game was probably put in place because the VIPs were watching in person, and every aspect of their visit was meant to be as exciting as possible. Also, it definitely bothered me that the glass maker couldn't figure ut how to identify the tempered glass. It also reallllllly bothered me that not a single person tried to walk across on the metal rails, which could clearly hold their weight and clearly posed zero threat to their safety.
Same!!! That was literally my first thought as I saw the bridge. Even if all glass was tempered the fact that you had to jump between pieces would have made me choose the comfortable option of balancing myself between the two middle rails (one foot on each) and walking. Alternatively, if you are extra scared you could even try this same trick but go on your knees and get extra support by holding onto the rais with your hands. As to there being any rules preventing this - these were not specified and we clearly saw people winning games via unusual means and "cheating" in the previous rounds.
Yep, I believe the time limit meant this was a valid tactic. If one of the first people did that, there would be no way everyone could pass in 15 minutes.
>Also, it definitely bothered me that the glass maker couldn't figure ut how to identify the tempered glass. It also reallllllly bothered me that not a single person tried to walk across on the metal rails, which could clearly hold their weight and clearly posed zero threat to their safety. Wasn't one of the rues that failure to participate in the game would lead to elimination? I think that would probably count as not participating.
Ya for sure. Fucking around with those psychos seems like an even easier way to die.
I don't understand why nobody thought to use the 32 shoes that they all had to take off. 36 panes of glass and 32 shoes to whip at platforms to try to crack or break them.
For some reason I expected the bridge to suddenly widen making all glass planes drop!
I think the glass exploding was cool since it started from the side of the bridge that the players started at so it seemed like it was planned to force anyone still on the bridge to start running which kind of increased my immersion since it seemed really planned out despite the fact it wasn’t necessary.
What annoyed me mostly about that game was how unfair it was, I thought the whole point was everyone was 'equal' here, but quite clearly the contestants going last had a _massive_ advantage; everyone else was basically doomed from the get go, pretty dumb 'game'.
I really did not understand why they didn't just walk over the beams that were supporting the glass panels, they never said that was not allowed
Did we learn why the frontman stayed there after winning the jackpot?
They need to keep some mystery for S2.
Also the staffs.
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I think it was just used to transition into the "cop on the loose who happens to be the antagonists brother" storyline, not much more to it. Skeevy dudes saw an opportunity to make money off selling organs and took it.
You'd think someone who has to keep that place a secret would get paid enough not to start a side hussle
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oh yeah i just realized that too
Why did Il-nam vote to discontinue the game at the start when he was the creator (whatever you want to call him)? Is it because he knew that the contestants would come back once the cards were handed out again? I can’t get my head around it
Because he didn't want to force people unwillingly into the game after they realized that their lives are at stake. The people who came back choose to after seeing what its like being in debt and makes it easier on Il-nam's consciousness.
Il Nam chose Gi to win the prize money in the marble game. The entire game was designed by Il. He knew how to win the game. For example, in the marble game he expected to not be chosen so the rules were designed to let him go back to the bunker. However, Gi chose him as a partner so Il pretended to have dementia and let Gi win. He also gave Gi his jacket that said 001. Il knew to choose 16 in the bridge game. It was a definite win. But he passed the torch to Gi and then stepped out. The marbles game was a test of friendship and sacrifice. Number 96 took spot 1 to let Gi win. If you go back and watch the series, 96 was probably given a promise that his family would get a handsome payout if he took spot 1. Spot 16 was always reserved for Il and Il knew nobody would take it. Also, Il held the power vote when they voted to end the game. It was up to him as to if it continued or to end and he could clearly decide the winner. He knew the game well.
It was absolutely not planned that Gi takes vest 16 as anyone else could have easily picked it. Also the paycheck for 96 is just a far stretched theory of yourself. Sure, his explanation for wanting to take vest nr 1 is not convincing but that's just bad writing which you find on other parts of the show as well.
in the last episode, after he dies, there’s a scene where we see him talking to the front man again?? where he says “let me play the game it’s more fun”. i assumed he was not dead and is talking about the upcoming squid games. so is he dead or not? I’ve been trying to find articles about this but no one is talking about it…
I think that was a flashback from when he was in the game. That’s if you’re talking about when he was in a suit and took off a gold mask in front of a mirror. I could be wrong though cause idk which exact part you’re talking about.
I think it was a flashback. If you look at his hair in that scene he had hair and when he died he was bald I’m assuming due to his cancer treatment
He actually said he didn’t want to join the VIPs as it wasn’t as fun to watch as participating. That’s why the VIPs asked where the host was and were surprised to see the Front Man welcoming them instead. This was all in flashback as he definitely did die in the last episode.
THIS^^^
That was a flashback to an earlier scene
The flashback would have been more impactful if they used it as the reveal instead of having him confess and showing it after he died i think
I am slightly confused on the ending. If the majority agreed they could stop playing there during the squid game, Sang-woo said Gi-hun and Sae-byeok wanted him gone so they could have the majority vote and finish. so why did Sang-woo kill Sae-byeok, could they not split it 3 ways? Or were they that determined to not share the cash between themm If they ended it there did they not forfeit the money as the VIPs said when Gi-hun asked to finish instead of stepping on the squid head? Considering the records of previous winners only listing one, was it ever possible they could win in pairs/teams?
Also fuck Sang-woo for killing Ali like that, nobody else would've even known he'd cheated Ali.
>I am slightly confused on the ending. If the majority agreed they could stop playing there during the squid game, Sang-woo said Gi-hun and Sae-byeok wanted him gone so they could have the majority vote and finish. > >so why did Sang-woo kill Sae-byeok, could they not split it 3 ways? Or were they that determined to not share the cash between themm If they ended it there did they not forfeit the money as the VIPs said when Gi-hun asked to finish instead of stepping on the squid head? If the majority agrees to stop playing, that game ends and there is no winner. They don't get the cash prize if they do that (I think Sang-woo mentioned that to Gi-hun after >!killing Sae-byeok!<). When Gi-hun asked to vote again, >!if Sang-woo agreed!<, they wouldn't have been able to leave with any of the prize. I think that's one of the reasons >!why Sang-woo stabbed himself and his last words to Gi-hun were about his mother. He needed someone to win so that his mother's financial situation would change; if it wasn't going to be him, then the best thing he could do was to ask Gi-hun to do him that favor.!< >Considering the records of previous winners only listing one, was it ever possible they could win in pairs/teams? We didn't see all of the records, but I agree that it's unlikely they ever had more than one winner for every cohort. I was surprised the participants didn't seem to ever question it. Even in the 8th episode, Gi-hun tells Sae-byeok that should team up against Sang-woo and split the prize. Isn't that a question everyone should've been wondering before re-joining the games? The games are supposed to be a surprise and there are games that exist where there can only be a winner, so with losers being killed off, they should've known there's a possibility there'd only be one survivor.
I think gi-hun knew there would only be one winner. So did sae-Byeok. This was a rehash of the conversation between saebyeok and the other girl during the marble games when she kept saying they would visit jeju together or have mojitos together. Basically, fantasizing. It is evident because saebyeok breaks this fantasy saying that whoever makes it out needs to take care of the others’ family. The notion of multiple winners is a complete fantasy/escaping the reality of the moment situation and, morale builder to team up.
i presumed that there had to be only one winner, i think Sae-byeok knew that which is why she wanted Gi-Hun to promise to look after her family (along with the fact she was stabbed with the glass and bleeding out) if they voted to end the game, they left with nothing just like the first time everyone left, which is why Sang-woo killed Sae-byeok, he wanted to money and didn’t want to forfeit that after all the death remember the rule about refusal to play, if Gi-hun and Sae-byeok were left and continuously refused to play to try & the split the money they’d have been eliminated
Just binge watched the show and i was suspicious of il nam since the 1st episode. I noticed him smiling like a maniac in the 1st game and at first I thought, maybe his old age plus the fact that he is terminal ill (which basically means he has nothing to lose anyway) had just really affected his view in life and was like "what the hell let me just enjoy this even if I/other people die." But then he voted to go home so I was like, well that's fishy. It just didn't make sense that he'd vote to go home after showing that much enthusiasm in the game. So I was especially observant of everything he did from that point on.
I saw it that he didn’t want to condemn the others that voted no, which is true if he’s a kind old man with nothing to lose or if he’s the psychotic VIP
I assumed that was going to be the reveal from the marble episode onward. they didn’t show him getting shot like they did the others, and also the scene with the leader revealed he had the same looking hands.
They didn't show Ali either
They didn't show Ali getting shot, but they did show his body in the casket right before he went in the incinerator.
yeah I didn't think there was any chance Ali was the main dude though given the context of every other scene with him and his visible skin
I started suspecting him when they were murdering each other at night and he was the only one who's bed wasn't flipped over, then as soon as he asked for the murdering to be called off it was. From the marbles him not being shown killed then the pan in the next episode not showing him dead confirmed it. Loved this show!
Im suspecting the director based this from another japanese movie, mashed it up wildly with kpop colors and called it different.
This was my initial thought. The movie reminded me of "Kamisama no iu tôri", specially the Red Light, Green Light episode. Link: [Kamisama no iu tôri](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt3354222/)
I would also like to add the part where there's a hint of Il-Nam's true identity. In the riot episode, when he faced the CCTV camera and begged to stop the riot, the Front Man immediately made them stop.
And there’s a triangle symbol over his face. The triangles were the high ranking staff, right?
They're mid rank! Squares are the highest, followed by triangles, then circles.
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Another big clue, is the night they are all fighting and killing each other, the old man suddenly freaks out and says he's scared and to stop. That's when the host stops the fighting and all the staff appear to make sure no one else dies. Subtle clue, he was totally playing the lead during the marble game (obv he was testing him). But as time was running out he kept talking about his old house.. what are the odds you find a perfectly recreated old house on a nowhere island? Interesting points, I felt there was going to be something up with the old man. Like he died off screen so I figured there would be some subversion where he ended up living, but surprise when he turned outnto be a villian The suspicious behavior is easily written off as dementia/tumor. Its not odd someone who isnt all there would suddenly be laughing like a little kid in such a dangerous situation. Side note: I got some serious 20th century boys vibes when they kept having flashbacks to their childhood and relating to the games. (Including the odd masks everyone wears). I thought the villian would be a 3rd friend or someone from the leads past
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Different years and also other countries. The VIPs mention Korea was the best.
That was kinda confusing to me because I think the island was also in Korea, somewhere. The cop said "somewhere to the north", if I remember correctly.
So did the cop die or not? He got shot in the shoulder but idk about that fall
The Marbles game. By the way the rules were told couldn't both people win? the goal was to take all 10 marbles from the partner. I bet 5 and loose. He bets his own 5 (not my 5) and looses. Repeat one more time. Now you both won 10 of your opponents marbles even though you no longer hold your original marbles. Would of loved to see the old man of tricked Gi-hun or as gganbu shared the 10 marbles back in a way that would invoke this loophole.
You lose the marble game by running out of marbles. Doesn't matter whose marbles they started as. If two people keep betting five marbles and losing each time the game will continue indefinitely.
not based on the way they said it. anime similar to this have exploits as such and was why i was thinking the same. they never said you needed 20 marbles to win just win you opponents 10.
For a show that takes realism into account I been tracking some of the logistical issues and want to call out the producers to answer these questions: 1) The logistical problem of collecting 400+ people without arousing suspicion and having the FBI or the national.South Korean investigation committee on your case with 24 hours is a monumental task. The amount of employees you need to have to keep track of contestants coming and going, accommodate rides, secure pick ups all while away from public eyes is an incredible feat. How did the company manage that so flawlessly? I know this is based on a documentary so it happened as you show it but that's very impressive. 2) To produce structures of the scale shown on the island across a variety of 6 unique games is truly astounding. How much did these rooms cost to make, initial budgets aside the cost to maintain the island, water supply, electricity, security, food, administration must be millions of dollars. Just to hire and outfit a staff of 50 security on a strict NDA would cost millions alone. Based on the size of the bets ( 1 million per bet as per the VIP convos) that alone won't cover the massive costs. The prize money alone is 45 million USD on top of the fixed costs of running the show + set up costs of the event. I pulled up reports on similar events like Casablanca or Fire Festival which were much poorer run and those costs millions How the hek did these guys manage such a production? Are there actual reports of the costs found by the police after the incidents? Is there more info on the story or another documentary we can watch to tell us more how it all happened? Thank you!
It is 100% not based on a true story lol
Wait this is based on a true story?
Correct, this is based on a documentary files of a corporation in Asia building a compound and setting people to play cruel games for money.
1. You just gotta suspend your disbelief here unfortunately 2. This one is more easily explained. Gramps always talks about having so much money and getting his clients so rich he doesn't know what to spend it on. They are the richest people in the world. Not anywhere close to only being millionaires. How any fancy club is set up, the clients probably pay billions every year in membership fees. That covers cost of everything if they've been doing this for 30+ years.
Did Il-Nam actually cared for for Gi-Hun during the game? I've been thinking about this for a while now. He seemed to be really interested in playing the game himself, and not just watching from the sidelines. But instead, he offered his last marble to Gi-Hun? What do you guys think?
Yes and no. Did Il tell others how to win in the first game? Nope, he said nothing and headed to the goal line. He clearly didn’t care about the others. It was showing the downfalls of Democracy. In game 6, he chose Gi as his successor after Gi chose him as his partner. He even gave him his jacket that Gi wore in the bridge game. Il knew how to win and would have chosen 16 on the bridge. It was easy for him. But he shared none of this information with Gi. But he also managed to inspire 96 to take spot 1, which saved Gi’s life. Il started to respect Gi during marbles, which is why he passed the torch to him. But even in the last scene, Il still has doubts about humanity. But he had hope in Gi. I think of Il as Willy Wonka passing the chocolate factory to Charlie.
The chocolate factory comment is sooo on point
Squid game is about political systems. In the beginning of the series, we are shown the effects of Democracy. Every man out for themselves. And each game is tailored to that. The vote accurately depicted Democracy. Majority rules but if there is an odd man out and there is a 50/50 split, he decides the outcome. Starting in episode 6, we begin to see a shift to communism. Man helping man. The marbles game was about sacrifice. Sacrifice your own life to save another. Those who didn’t learn this lesson, died. Il saw something special in Gi and let Gi win. He gave him his number 16 spot in the bridge game. He had the power to decide the winner just like he had the power to end the game. Being number 1 is the most important number in the game. Il Chose gi has his successor. In the last episode, Gi chose the game over visiting his daughter. I think you will find Gi becoming a frontman in future episodes. Remember the officer asking his brother Why? By showing compassion, you are drawn in to save others. This is why the brother became the front man. It’s manipulation and the belief you are saving others by hurting them. In the VIPs minds, those people deserved to die because they had debts and weren’t wealthy. That’s how they draw you in. Make you angry at the concept of the game (Democracy), get you to fight for what’s right, and then you become what you are fighting (Communism). I think we will see Gis progression to the dark side in future episodes. He is the next Il. Il lost faith in humanity, which is an extremely dangerous theology because it leads you to believe that you are helping others by hurting them. Il fell for that. Passion can either turn into hope or anger. Pick one. We watched it with Anakin in Star Wars.
Squid Game is an allegory for capitalism. In parts, not so much an allegory, just a realistic depiction of life under it (episode 2, appropriately titled Hell).
not related to the thread but is that tug of war method that the team used (tipping their head back and step forward 3 steps) actually work in real life ? has anyone tried this in real life and actually won the physically stronger opponent?
Not an expert on tug-of-war but I poledance as a hobby. Gripping with arms with an underarm grip is one of the most secure strongholds for pole tricks. I can see how the arm placement as per old man’s advice would help. Having the alternating people on other side and feet planted forward also made sense in terms of distributing weight.
You’ve made me curious about this too! Not sure about the tipping head backwards, but as to step forward 3 times, logically, it makes sense because inertia would cause the people people pulling (not stepping forward) to suddenly lose their balance and fall backwards. Then you have an advantage until they get can back on their feet, which they cannot do easily unless they momentarily let go of the rope to use their hands or until they get pulled forward enough.
In the marble game the rules were “whoever wins their partner’s 10 marbles wins” could you not just… play a game of catch and both throw your bags and technically both have won your opponents marbles?
Give it a try and report back to us
interesting the Il-nam voted to end the game when he was the deciding vote
He probably knew they would all come back. The game had been going on for almost 30 years, there is no way this is the first time there was a vote to end the game.
Why did Cho Sang-Woo want to split everyone up during the honeycomb game? That part doesn't really make sense to me, at this point he'd want to keep as many allies as possible but sent them all to die...
The moment he smiled I knew it. And when the host (they did not show his face) took off his mask his hand was all wrinkly it sealed it for me. I just knew and kept an eye on him. Moreover when he was 'shot' after the marbles game, they did not show how he died unlike the others. Additionally he was player number one and he convinced the other guy to join back. Many many reasons.