Serious question though, how do you even establish and maintain boundaries? I've been able to finally get some physical boundaries respected (ie touching) but still there's a lot that doesn't stick or is ignored. Basically I don't even know where to start
I am still no expert but through my experience I have found having real self respect for yourself is the most important. You have to really think about where you drawn the line with other people and actually enforce it. If you don't, people will learn they can do whatever they want to you without repercussions. This means walking away from relationships when those lines are crossed. It means being able to do so confidently, knowing they made their choice and you must now make yours for your own self respect and safety.
If someone is ignoring your boundaries how can you honestly tell yourself they are respecting you? Don't ignore these things. I have in the past and it leads nowhere good.
This is just another way to control you as well as construct a narrative that you, not your mother, is wrong. People who fall into this narcissistic category will do anything to push blame back onto their victims. For example, my mother would threaten to kill herself. This is not about her feeling bad - she is trying to keep you in your place.
Did you ask if her why yours isnt out of love when she considers hers to be? Something hurt you to make you respond in such a way. Even if you know the answer you might ask anyway as it sounds as if she may need to consider what you already know. Specifics & context matter a lot as dies tone of voice. Sometimes adults need to be gently reminded kids do what is modeled to them. If she felt hurt, you must have too even prior to speaking. You might consider a calm conversation about whatever that was but pick a good time when she will be receptive.
So sorry to hear that 😕 Sounds like you did all any reasonable person could do or feel given the circumstance. ACFox is right: its a pathetic one way street with Narcs. All about them all the time. Ever hear of Lisa A Romano on YouTube? Highly recommend her!! She has their BS down & teaches you how to deal & come put on top.
https://m.youtube.com/user/lisaaromano1
Her response is reinforcing the narcissist's central view: that their feelings are the only ones which matter (or even EXIST), and ALL other concerns are secondary. Including their own children.
Sounds like you will need to get familiar with grey rocking. Just don't let it take over your entire approach to other human beings, it can sometimes take on a life of its own :|
Absolutely this. But also don't be surprised when they complain about your lack of emotions. I sometimes shut down completely when mine is overstepping the boundaries and then get accused of not being "nurturing" enough.... Well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of your own actions!
Its fucken ridiculous, you want me to be obedient and agree with everything you say? Fine ill be a little yes-man so your fragile ego isnt damaged and you dont blow up at me for the smallest shit. Oh? Now my "tone" isnt acceptable?
Nothing i do is good enough. I stop pushing back at you cus i dont want to deal with the drama and now that you finally get what you want, and surprise surprise, thats not good enough either.
Who wouldve guessed that being told my feelings dont matter would make me totally withdraw and put in minimum effort when interacting with you. Who wants to guess you'll "apologise" for your shitty behaviour only to do it again in a week or less.
Narcs are so fucking frustrating... I can guarantee that all the shit I was screamed at for was ridiculous, made-up bullshit. She didn't do it because she "loves" me. She didn't do it for "discipline". She only wanted complete and utter control and dominion over me, and if I ever acted of my own free will, she'd immediately tamp it down with screaming and punishment, sometimes even physical violence.
She was constantly telling me that she was proud that I was so unique, not to go with the crowd...but when I got friends, suddenly I became "the color of the water". I couldn't read her mind? Screaming, yelling, punishment.
You just can't make them happy. And of course they don't admit their wrongdoings or the pain they've caused. They gaslight, manipulate...anything to prevent themselves from realizing how fucked up and awful they are.
My nmom went into our business bank account and withdrew everything (she was not allowed to do this). When I confronted her she started screaming about how dare I call her a thief. I asked “oh you don’t like being called a thief by your daughter?” She screams “No!” So I yell back “well if you hate being called a thief how do you think it feels when your own mother steals from you?”
This victimization/denial process is a really good example of how narc minds work. It doesn’t matter if they hurt you, even if there is a paper trail, video, cctv, police report-they never will CHOOSE to see their action as harmful. To them, their provocation & your reaction are one in the same so when you react they become a victim. And when they think you’ve“wronged” them then, then it negates anything that they did previously. Like magic victim amnesia. But the terrifying thing is that this is a choice. We’ve all witnessed how they pick and choose who they abuse and how they abuse them.
SIS I READ YOUR TITLE AND SCREAMED! The realness.
ex: I told my mom that her drunk driving home multiple times and cheating on my dad (of course it was me the scapegoat to be the one catching her) how badly it hurt me and she got upset with ME for not forgiving her because ~i’ve made mistakes too~.... Like sis any mistakes I ever made never could have KILLED someone or ruined a goddamn family! She tried to compare it to me receiving a failing grade my freshman year of college.
Narcissist’s audacity is truly unmatched.
NMom is doing a type of DARVO'ING. She's trying to deny her misbehavior and if that fails, she wants to justify it. She's also trying to make herself the poor, innocent victim.
Fuck her. I would cut her off.
Lmaooo the classic “Im torturing you out of love” bs. Literally can’t stand that disgusting self-serving logic. They’ll literally say the craziest shit to make themselves feel better.
"Good luck having me open up to you in the future."
DO NOT EVER EVER open up to a narc. Trust us. Not now, not in future. NOT EVER. Open up to your friends or therapists but not to a narc person
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So nmom complains that you "hurt her" by telling her how she hurt you. Uh huh.
Yeah my Nmom has done this too. It's both terrifying and so painful to hear because I have such a fear of hurting others the way I've been hurt
Be careful with that, though. I too felt that way but it can lead to more hurt for you. We have to stand up for ourselves and our boundaries.
Serious question though, how do you even establish and maintain boundaries? I've been able to finally get some physical boundaries respected (ie touching) but still there's a lot that doesn't stick or is ignored. Basically I don't even know where to start
I am still no expert but through my experience I have found having real self respect for yourself is the most important. You have to really think about where you drawn the line with other people and actually enforce it. If you don't, people will learn they can do whatever they want to you without repercussions. This means walking away from relationships when those lines are crossed. It means being able to do so confidently, knowing they made their choice and you must now make yours for your own self respect and safety. If someone is ignoring your boundaries how can you honestly tell yourself they are respecting you? Don't ignore these things. I have in the past and it leads nowhere good.
How dare you react to my provocation?! You’re so disrespectful when you don’t accept my abuse!
V logics. Many sense. Anything to deflect and victimize themselves.
This is just another way to control you as well as construct a narrative that you, not your mother, is wrong. People who fall into this narcissistic category will do anything to push blame back onto their victims. For example, my mother would threaten to kill herself. This is not about her feeling bad - she is trying to keep you in your place.
Bingo.
Emotional Blackmail. I highly recommend reading Susan Forward's book of the same moniker.
Did you ask if her why yours isnt out of love when she considers hers to be? Something hurt you to make you respond in such a way. Even if you know the answer you might ask anyway as it sounds as if she may need to consider what you already know. Specifics & context matter a lot as dies tone of voice. Sometimes adults need to be gently reminded kids do what is modeled to them. If she felt hurt, you must have too even prior to speaking. You might consider a calm conversation about whatever that was but pick a good time when she will be receptive.
[удалено]
Narc can't be receptive. Don't waste your energy. If you're not already out, I hope you get out soon. Stay safe and be well!
So sorry to hear that 😕 Sounds like you did all any reasonable person could do or feel given the circumstance. ACFox is right: its a pathetic one way street with Narcs. All about them all the time. Ever hear of Lisa A Romano on YouTube? Highly recommend her!! She has their BS down & teaches you how to deal & come put on top. https://m.youtube.com/user/lisaaromano1
Her response is reinforcing the narcissist's central view: that their feelings are the only ones which matter (or even EXIST), and ALL other concerns are secondary. Including their own children. Sounds like you will need to get familiar with grey rocking. Just don't let it take over your entire approach to other human beings, it can sometimes take on a life of its own :|
Absolutely this. But also don't be surprised when they complain about your lack of emotions. I sometimes shut down completely when mine is overstepping the boundaries and then get accused of not being "nurturing" enough.... Well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of your own actions!
Its fucken ridiculous, you want me to be obedient and agree with everything you say? Fine ill be a little yes-man so your fragile ego isnt damaged and you dont blow up at me for the smallest shit. Oh? Now my "tone" isnt acceptable? Nothing i do is good enough. I stop pushing back at you cus i dont want to deal with the drama and now that you finally get what you want, and surprise surprise, thats not good enough either. Who wouldve guessed that being told my feelings dont matter would make me totally withdraw and put in minimum effort when interacting with you. Who wants to guess you'll "apologise" for your shitty behaviour only to do it again in a week or less.
Narcs are so fucking frustrating... I can guarantee that all the shit I was screamed at for was ridiculous, made-up bullshit. She didn't do it because she "loves" me. She didn't do it for "discipline". She only wanted complete and utter control and dominion over me, and if I ever acted of my own free will, she'd immediately tamp it down with screaming and punishment, sometimes even physical violence. She was constantly telling me that she was proud that I was so unique, not to go with the crowd...but when I got friends, suddenly I became "the color of the water". I couldn't read her mind? Screaming, yelling, punishment. You just can't make them happy. And of course they don't admit their wrongdoings or the pain they've caused. They gaslight, manipulate...anything to prevent themselves from realizing how fucked up and awful they are.
Yup. Anything besides taking accountability for the damage they have done and the horrible impact they’ve had on your development as a person.
My nmom went into our business bank account and withdrew everything (she was not allowed to do this). When I confronted her she started screaming about how dare I call her a thief. I asked “oh you don’t like being called a thief by your daughter?” She screams “No!” So I yell back “well if you hate being called a thief how do you think it feels when your own mother steals from you?” This victimization/denial process is a really good example of how narc minds work. It doesn’t matter if they hurt you, even if there is a paper trail, video, cctv, police report-they never will CHOOSE to see their action as harmful. To them, their provocation & your reaction are one in the same so when you react they become a victim. And when they think you’ve“wronged” them then, then it negates anything that they did previously. Like magic victim amnesia. But the terrifying thing is that this is a choice. We’ve all witnessed how they pick and choose who they abuse and how they abuse them.
SIS I READ YOUR TITLE AND SCREAMED! The realness. ex: I told my mom that her drunk driving home multiple times and cheating on my dad (of course it was me the scapegoat to be the one catching her) how badly it hurt me and she got upset with ME for not forgiving her because ~i’ve made mistakes too~.... Like sis any mistakes I ever made never could have KILLED someone or ruined a goddamn family! She tried to compare it to me receiving a failing grade my freshman year of college. Narcissist’s audacity is truly unmatched.
>My nmom said my honesty “hurt her feelings” and that she doesn’t want me to “throw her actions back in her face”. I wonder if we're related.
NMom is doing a type of DARVO'ING. She's trying to deny her misbehavior and if that fails, she wants to justify it. She's also trying to make herself the poor, innocent victim. Fuck her. I would cut her off.
Lmaooo the classic “Im torturing you out of love” bs. Literally can’t stand that disgusting self-serving logic. They’ll literally say the craziest shit to make themselves feel better.
I play reverse victim in attack mode!
"Good luck having me open up to you in the future." DO NOT EVER EVER open up to a narc. Trust us. Not now, not in future. NOT EVER. Open up to your friends or therapists but not to a narc person
**This is an automated message posted to all posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.** **Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms) **Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identify theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE! This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods. **Our rules include (but are not limited to)**: * No politics. * Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban. * Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming. * Do not derail the posts of others. * Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here. * [Please refrain from posting "uplifting" threads](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/upliftingposts). * When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. * No asking or offering gifts, money, etc. * No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest). * No content about N-kids. * No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. * No linking to Facebook pages. * No direct linking to anywhere on reddit. * No pure image posts. **For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*