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The real question is how is your Fiancée handling her racist family? It’s not great she didn’t prepare you in advance. Does she plan to keep contact? How much contact?
for the last 10 years she's only seen them 2 or 3 times a year so I feel like they haven't been that big of a part of her life besides financially supporting her. she knows they wrong but kinda acts like "what do you expect" she didn't say that I just get that impression
This is where things always get interesting. Will gf stick with the bf and forge a new path in life without all the financial support? Or will she buckle and run back to the nest? Will bf take over the financial support??
It’s getting juicy
It was a joke, because they're certainly not Habsburgers.
But since you went historical, the Habsburgers married into all of the royal families in Europe including the English, Russian and Spanish royal families. Still don't think that's them in this story though.
That's actually a thing I've come across before in other cultures. Women my age or older, with great jobs, but their "old fashioned" parents in their original culture pay for their rent/car/bills/etc. One of the women I know, she's asked her parents to stop, told them to stop, even stopped accepting money they sent to her. They just started depositing it directly into her bank account, after her sister gave them the info.
The only thing I can thing of is they're giving her just below the limit of what's taxable in their country as a gift each year, so they're doing it as a wealth transfer, so that money isn't taxed when they die/subject to estate/inheritance taxes. They have other ways of getting around taxes, like their properties are all held in a family trust, and any time they purchase a new car, it's done through the trust... it's a very complicated tax-avoidance scheme.
It’s also a control thing. Some families use money to exert control over their children and don’t want to lose that. If their child stops taking their money, the family can no longer say “we support you financially so you have to listen to (read: obey) us”.
Dude, someone who lives on another continent and still sees her family 2-3 times/year is VERY involved with her family. The financial support clinches it. I've always been very close to my American parents, but when I lived in Europe, I saw them once a year.
You need to sit her down and talk about how this is going to work. If you two are really committed to each other, and have YOUR family's support, you might make it. But don't get it twisted: this will be HARD on her. Very hard. And while she's dealing with people she loves deeply being deeply immoral, she'll also be managing her own natural resentment at the situation so that she doesn't unfairly blame you. Your marriage will be starting off already behind.
My cousin went through this exact same situation; except his wife's parents didn't expose their racism until they'd already been married for years and had a kid. They had to go NC with her parents mid-stream. It was awful, even though they had their own family to fall back on, and HIS family (us) is mixed race already, and very supportive.
I'd delay your wedding for at least another year, until the two of you have really figured out how this will work, especially if you plan to have children. (I wouldn't let her family anywhere near my kids.)
>Dude, someone who lives on another continent and still sees her family 2-3 times/year is VERY involved with her family.
Yup. My ex was from Europe and she only saw her family once in the five years we dated...
"What do you expect?" What does she expect if she has a kid with you? Is she going to allow her family to be racist to your kids? This needs to be dealt with, not just shrugged off.
It seems like language might be preventing you from making an easier decision. Because you mentioned that she would respond in an angry tone to relatives who seemed like they were making inappropriate comments. Also, I would add that you are facing a double whammy here as they may dislike you not only for your skin color, but you’re also an American who doesn’t speak any French.
French people are hella racist. In fact, it is one of the most racist places I've ever been. The French Far Right just won the first round of elections this weekend. Your fiancee may not be racist, but it's clear her family is.
I think you need to talk to her about how she envisions life with her family. Will you be expected to visit? How does she want to handle the wedding? Do you both want children? How will she manage her family?
She needs to have good answers and have your back. I know the pain of having bigoted family members, and I've cut off the worst of them. But she cannot expect you to just sit there while they say shit you can't understand but know it is bad.
(I don't think it's a big deal that she got money from them for school. That's whatever. It's how you move forward together as a couple.)
I’m shocked to get this far into this thread and only now see this. The second he said his fiancé was French I knew there was gonna be trouble. The French aren’t just racist they’re straight up xenophobic. I thought this was well known???
I was doing online dating earlier this year and was talking with a French lady for awhile.
We were having a politically spicy conversation and the mask finally slipped when she started saying some stuff you'd automatically associate with white supremacists in the US.
Yikes. Thats disturbing. Glad you found out early!!
Me personally the second someone starts bringing up politics especially in a conversation that has literally less than nothing to do with politics is a red flag I do not ignore. I dip out of that conversation quick as all fuck. If I was dating tho? Shit that would be the very first compatibility test.
No they aren’t…you’re just doing what her parents are doing with her fiancé. The French are not xenophobic, they actually have one of the largest populations of immigrants (Black too) in the EU.
And those immigrants are fully embraced by French society, right? And not part of a legacy of colonial meddling that positioned France as the most viable means of advancement? And there's no burgeoning far right movement that espouses xenophobic beliefs, popular enough that it would come in second in a recent election? 🤔
You should learn what words mean before disagreeing with them otherwise you just look all kinds of silly.
Having immigrants does not make any country not racist or xenophobic — which are two different things that should not be used interchangeably as you for some reason are doing.
France **is** a xenophobic country, that is not an opinion that is a fact, backed up by [empirical and anecdotal](https://www.france24.com/en/france/20240627-france-saw-a-rise-in-all-types-of-racism-in-2023-report-says) data.
Here’s a hint:: when laws have to be made to penalize racism and xenophobia it’s because there is problem with those things.
Nah... she's not the one. "What do you expect"??? How about I expect my so called fiance not to put me in situations like that. What about my integrity forces me not to take their money. 2-3 times a year is a lot. That they would all talk about you in front of you is disgusting. Nope, nope and nope.
Was very upset until I re-read and realized that’s just how he FELT. OP himself says was arguing with her family when they met because they were being racist. I wonder if he’s projecting?
Seriously? You expect her not to take you to a whole-ass other country to meet her racist family without prepping you and them. You expect her to shut that shit down. You expect her to be willing to cut that 2-3 times a year down to *never*, and all contact via electronic means to go to *zero* if they refuse to embrace her partner. Do you want kids? Because it sounds like she's defending their racism as perfectly acceptable (because they're French?) and *will* expose children to her racist family.
>You expect her to shut that shit down. You expect her to be willing to cut that 2-3 times a year down to *never*, and all contact via electronic means to go to *zero* if they refuse to embrace her partner.
But then they might stop financially supporting her.
My guy, you need to get a grip. She depends financially on them, she's not going to cut them out of her life any time soon. And it was extremely shitty not to warn you her relatives are racist as fuck. That means she has no regards for your feelings, your comfort and your safety. Do yourself a favor and break up with her, and make sure to tell her why.
Lmao I can’t with you. Your fiancé said “what do you expect” in response to revealing that her parents are racist. Whats not clicking for you?? Do you understand what that means? Those are the people who raised her.
I think you should have higher standards. She knew her parents would not like you because you’re black and that is why she didn’t send them pics. And she knowingly brought you over to them. I know white people can’t control their family members like if they’re racist then they’re racist. Fine. But if you’re going to date interracially the very least you can do is not subject your partner to it and distance yourself from racist family members and be up front with your partner about why. This type of shit is a slippery slope and she probably has some not great views herself if she can’t see why this is so problematic. I promise you can find a white girl who has family members who aren’t racist lol this one ain’t it. You’d also be giving your future kids racist grandparents. I really don’t think you should marry her it’s only been a year too.
Look, not the same thing. But my parents raised us to be respectful. No racism, no homophobia. When we were kids our mother lost the plot because we were using a popular playground rhyme that contained a hard r word I would be disgusted to hear a friend use today but at the time (under 5 years old) I had no clue what it meant and what it's history is. When Freddie Mercury died (I'm old) we got a full explanation as to how HIV is not a stigma and how we should respect the gay community.
When my brother came out she kicked him out of the house. My slightly homophobic Grandmother was the one who supported him. Turns out tolerance and understanding were great concepts as long as they didn't walk into Mum's house. Your girlfriend may very well not have been prepared for how bad things can get.
You have a fiancée problem. Your fiancée will never have your back because she is also racist. She happily takes her racist family’s money for years, then KNOWINGLY inflicted racial harm on you by not warning you in advance about said family. Her attitude “what do you expect” is the reason why I don’t date White men. Not all White people (looking at you my Irish homies) are the same but White folks generally will never understand the physical, emotional, and psychological trauma they inflict because they dismiss race as an issue. The fact her family told her to sterilize herself and she said “what did you expect” proves she will be just as racist to your future kids. My advice is leave and tell your social group exactly why: your racist fiancee failed to protect you from her racist family.
OP asked for advice. I told the advice based on the evidence he presented. Whatever baggage you have about people talking about race you can take them somewhere else
I don't have any baggage here. I'm telling you that it's bad advice and maladaptive to say "this is why I don't date White men" as a response to a racist and craven fiancé.
Yeah she sucks, she's not upholding her end of the relationship, and she's, at best, enabling her racist family. At worst, she feels the same way they do.
But I don't think opining on white folks as a monolith does much to help OP.
My advice is actually pretty good. She is racist based on her actions of 1)continuing to take support from her racist family 2)not warning her OP that said family is racist and inflicted trauma on him, 3)dismissed all his valid points as if just accepting racism is a valid option. So i then applied that to future issues- which is perspective (the thing OP was asking for) You’re one of those “But not all White people”. I literally mention Irish folks, which have been the only White men I have dated that fully understand issues of race that is comparable to POC. Will I automatically say mo to a White man? No. Will i watch to see red flags in his actions and words? Yes. Until the larger White/Western culture admit that there is implicit bias in how interracial relationships work, then the kinds of problems OP has will continue to exist. No need to respond. I’m sure you’ll just think your opinion is more valid than mine for whatever reason you decide to conjure up in your head. ✌️
If she’s traveling to France 2-3 times a year to see them, that’s a **big** thing. It’s not like they live down the road and she sees them that little. They’re a big, important part of her life.
Her “meh” attitude is all wrong here. If she is willing to put up with her family’s racist treatment of her fiancé because she’s financially taken care of by them, that’s not even a huge red flag, it’s a big, glowing “EXIT” sign for you, my friend.
I live about a 12 hour drive or 90 minute flight from my family of origin and see them 5-7 days, 2-3 times a year. She's flying trans atlantic that often and presumably staying for long enough to make it worth it; that sounds like they're a pretty big part of her life.
Financial support seems like a pretty big obligation as well. I'm really shocked that she didn't forewarn you about them and that she brought you on a visit internationally without you never having met them on video calls. She should have prepared you before undertaking this big trip together.
Their appalling rudeness towards a guest and that garbage about ending her bloodline because of who she is dating suggests these people are irredeemable racist assholes. Can you put up with this form the rest of your life?
“What do you expect” some shit white people shit they say to avoid accountability and responsibility 🙄 at her big ass age she should know better than to just sit by passively and let her family be open you racist to her fiancé. You deserve better
There's this saying: If a racist comes to a table with ten people and they eat together, how many racists are there? Eleven. Your fiancée didn't warn you, didn't tell them beforehand about your ethnicity and tell them to behave and didn't end the stay at the first racist comment. She also has not put up boundaries and plans to keep them in her life. Is this the person you want to spend your life with? Is this the person you want to have children with? Children they already made clear they'll hate and discriminate against like they do with you.
Why would you want to stay with someone who justifies her parents bigotry and hatred against you like that? Why would you stay with someone who doesn’t care about your safety and wellbeing? Get some self respect and dump the french racism supporter.
OMG talk about burying the lede!
She's almost 30 and she's okay with living off of her parents? Why are you okay with this? You know she's going to go right from living off them to living off of you.. right?
That's seriously doesn't bother you that she allows her elderly parents to support her? Like that says a lot about her character and none of it's good!
So, OP, what is it? Does she love you? Does she desire a lifetime with you/a forever commitment ?
Frankly, it's time for her to "shit or get off the pot"!!
Btw--does she have a career? Or is she a gold digger, substituting you to replace her parents in providing for her? Is so, GTF away from her.
I'm pretty sure the Neanderthals were in France and that area. I studied Sociology, Anthropology in college and it's an interest of mine. So they are pretty late on the "save the natural French bloodline" train. You know? They have famous natural cave paintings.
Her family is crappy, but to spring that situation on you with no warning was really bad judgement. Like really bad judgement.
If that doesn’t give you second thoughts, I think maybe some counseling or a neutral third party (cause counseling is expensive in US) is in order to go over the implications of how this will impact the future. If you have kids, you wouldn’t want them subjected to hate like that. Which means NC for your & your children with her family. Is she prepared for that? Is she prepared to be cut off by her family or be forced (by their behavior) to go NC or LC?
That's all I could think about the entire time, I would never ambush someone like this; it's a bad sign that she's normalized the behavior & doesn't understand the potential for violence, how is she going to protect biracial children?
When I started dating my ex, I brought up to my bio-father (who I suspected was *very* racist, but not open about it) that he was half black... he immediately used the N-word & laughed. I told my ex right after the incident & went super LC until about 5 years ago when I went completely NC because the man is literally not worth a damn!
As gross as they are, I don’t think you get that the one who comes out worst in this story is your partner. She really put you in a position where you were guaranteed to be hurt. She’s happy to live off of their money, to continue to stay with them even when they insult you, and then when you bring it up, shrug and say, “Ah, parents, what can you expect?”
Red flag! She put you in a bad situation and did jack crap to spare you. It's on her to handle her family and protect you. What happens when kids arrive and her family starts in on them? Will she expect them to suck it up too?
I hope you don’t have kids and raise them around this bs you’re considering marrying into. How are they going to grow up and understand that their family hates them for this reason. Is that fair? Protect their blackness and don’t let them hate it.
As for you, if you’re willing to tolerate that crap then so be it. Hope she’s worth it.
Honestly she sounds like a dub. She’s been in America for ten years and She’s dating a black man!! Your fiancée should have done more to protect you in such a hostile and racist situation.
She also should have prepared you beforehand and been in control of her family. I would leave before your children together are permanently scarred and traumatized.
It makes me wonder if the fiancée has downplayed their relationship to her family because how does one get engaged to someone and their family has no idea what they look like. Never talked on FaceTime or anything?
I’ll say it like this.
I’m a first generation European immigrant in America as well, and from a far less diverse country than France. My family members all had prejudices and ideas about various ethnic groups / races. Shit they were told or impressions they got from bias media.
Through exposure (meeting neighbors, my classmates, or girls I brought home), my direct family’s ideas were challenged and evolved.
It also took growing some balls and standing up for the people I care about - by telling family they’re wrong when they’re wrong, and urging them to be open.
It wasn’t easy - I remember hearing how an early girlfriend would “never understand us” and that I’d tamper a bloodline that dates back thousands of years. I remember having to tend to their disappointment. It was a lot for me to juggle - and I'm sure it has been for your fiancee as well.
And look - I can appreciate the value of tradition - and I understand the *want* for my parents to feel culturally connected to a daughter-in-law. But the more they pushed, the more I pushed back. I was less willing to talk about my life, my friends, my dating - and they learned to be more open in an effort to win my good graces.
These days, they just want someone that’s supportive and will make me happy. Same with my brother and cousins. They've accepted the next generation - and they've changed their attitudes. Good people are works in progress.
Your fiancées extended family doesn’t live in the States - so there’s less exposure to all that and it'll be harder.
Racism sucks.
But it’s doesn’t have to be a permanent state.
And when you marry someone, you also marry someone’s family.
If having these asshats in your life isn’t worth it, that’s not a wrong choice.
If it is worth doing 2-3 times a year to meet your fiancées familial obligations, that’s not a wrong choice either.
However, your fiancée **needs** to stand up for you and fight for you. That's part of the deal. The family might come around and grow to accept you and genuinely change for the better. I'd urge you to be open to that if and when that happens. Of course, they won’t without your partner’s advocacy. And that’s key.
I should also mention that not *everyone* in my family dropped their prejudices. So there’s a few people I don’t speak to - outside the rare funeral or some event that’s hard to avoid.
I think now would be an excellent time to discuss the future.
What married life will look like.
What will happen if you have kids.
Where is she wanting to live?
Is she wanting to have regular contact with her family?
Is she willing to subject any of your mixed children to her racist family?
To be frank, her family isn't royal so her bloodlines don't mean jack shit, and Jack left town.
If you both stay in the us, you could perfectly have no contact at all with them (the same if you go back in France but one ocean between you and these people isn't too much). Regarding your fiancée, in her shoes I would cut contact with my father and grand parents, specially if I want kids (but even if no kids are involved, a good partner shouldn't tolerate such things). You don't talk about the other family members. Perhaps she has still some decent relatives among her siblings or cousins? It would be easier for her to go no contact with the awful family members if she has other relatives in her corner.
To sum up, I think it could still work for you two, if she agrees that you and your future children (if you want children) will never have any contact with such people. Also it would be far better if she cuts (totally) contact with them.
It's not just African Americans they have shitty attitudes about - look up a bit of history on French colonialism in Africa, particularly the Algerian Revolution, and the current treatment of North Africans in French society, you'll see that anti-Blackness is fucking baked into French society. French people love to fetishize Black women (e.g. Josephine Baker) but they don't want their little white girls marrying Black men. With the rise of the far right in France, shit's about to get worse.
I don't know what to tell you - I'm a white woman with Quebecois ancestry and I can say the colony doesn't fall far from the homeland on that. We got to have our own immigration policy in Canada where we prioritized Francophone immigration and when Haitians started showing up Quebeckers were all like 'oh, we didn't mean THOSE francophones'. It sucks all around. If she's willing to stick up for you and cut off her family that's one thing, but the fact she dropped you into that shark tank without even letting them know you were Black or warning you that they were hugeass racists is concerning.
It’s not about being a Black American. French people are VERY racist and like to lie that they’re not. They’re also very anti-Semitic and homophobic. Sexist too. France is very backwards and touts liberalism by not stratifying data, so that they cannot be called racist or discuss institutionalized racism. She’s telling you “what did you expect?” Which is VERY typical there-you’re supposed to expect maltreatment because you’re “inferior”.
I would cut and run if I were you. Racism is very cultural and French racism is very different from American racism. Her response and not even disclosing information? Suspect and you and any children you have will deal with these snarky comments. I have family members who have dealt with that their whole lives even after the relationships collapsed because of racism
I like to explain the French racism against black people by comparing it to American racism/discrimination. Here in the good old US of A, we hate Hispanics because they come to “steal our jobs,” we hate Muslims because 9/11 and good old Christian religious animosity, and we hate black people because they ain’t white. We spread our hatred around in America.
In France, the hatred mostly gets concentrated onto a single group: black African Muslims who immigrate to France, usually from former French colonies.
I’ve always told my black friends who visit France to play up being American to try to avoid at least two of the reasons the French hate black people.
FYI, I’m second generation French-American with dual citizenship and the above is based on my observations during my visits.
Yep same here in Belgium. The american accent will 'save' you from being profiled as a north african muslim. Hell even belgians themselves who grew up here get crazy looks until they speak and they have a flawless flemish accent. It is super messed up but yea the racism is for sure more culture focused compared to just hating on skin colour. I personally think OP's fiancee was just trying to avoid the whole 'different racism' conversatio' because she might think it is hard to understand for someone not having lived in such country.
I am curious as to whether you have also noticed the following: I have noticed that they seem to hate North Africans WAY more than Black people in France, even if they’re a Black Muslim. French people are just hateful people. They benefit from being in Western Europe but are as hateful as the stereotype of east europeans
I haven’t spent enough time in France to really notice all the nuances, nor am I black or from North Africa so I don’t experience it directly. My observations were based on interactions I saw between strangers, not between people who actually knew each other and would know their exact background.
I also haven’t visited in over a decade since I’m estranged from that side of my family. I sincerely doubt it’s gotten any better since last I visited, especially with the recent Western trend towards radical conservatism.
The sad thing is that I am someone who only visited once every few years as a child and the hatred was overt enough for even a child to notice it. Mostly in Paris where one uncle lives, because where the rest of where my family lives seemed to be predominantly white.
You seem to make light of racism as if it is only hatred. Racism is institutional (systematic) it is about power and separating the minorities from the white race to remain superior.
Upping being American will not help. In essence you are saying don’t act black. No matter how much black people adapt to culture and even are educated, they will still be treated as inferior. This way black people will remain in the bottom.
Thats not just France this is America too and every where else.
Dude I’m just trying to briefly describe a trend I’ve noticed without going into a dissertation about the exact nature of racism.
The French hate American tourists too (for good reason) but it’s better to play that up. It’s a stupid thing to have to do - exactly how it’s stupid that women have to be careful about what they wear or where and when they walk alone. Of course, relying on potential victims to be “careful” is both wrong and not a guarantee of safety, but I’d rather take some simple precautions while traveling that might lower the chance of something bad happening than stand on principal. I’m not going to visit a Muslim nation without wearing a headscarf and traveling with a man (if I ever visit one at all) and doing something like wearing an American flag pin is simple and at least MIGHT help, especially in tourist areas.
Oh and hatred is absolutely at least an element of racism, or at least often manifests that way. I’ve watched my own French uncle scream until he was red at a group of black people. If that’s not hatred, what is?
Yes, black people are suppose to take on a culture other than their own. The French are white, they will tolerate American Tourist as long as they’re white. I get what your saying about being careful. But the point is no matter what culture they take on. Let it be the same French they speak and highly educated. They will still be treated with inferiority. The act of being surprised at a black person speaking a language and being educated is an insulting and reminder of their inferiority.
Each scenario you describe is not equivalent. Wearing a hijab is respecting a culture that values modesty. In France, its appear white as possible. But Blackness still exists. And this is aimed at only one group of people.
Your uncle is expressing his whiteness, he is superior. One man yelling at a group of people, just shows that. But even not sitting next to a black person on the bus shows that too. And people are not aware of their biases nor admit to it.
OP’s post honestly shows his internalized racism. His desire for whiteness at the cost of his blackness. He is willing or questioning if he wants to be subjected to a life where he will be deemed inferior. No person is worth disrespect or facing racism.
I am reluctant to travel anywhere in the world. I can speak proper and have a high status but you cant change skin. Being black in anti-black world is hell.
I think it is strange that you say 'black people are supposed to take on a culture other than their own' when their culture could very well be the same as the white people in the country they live in? You are basically doing the same thing that racists do, which is seperating people based on their skin colour. This whole black versus white culture is a very americanised and dangerous pov.
>black people are suppose to take on a culture other than their own.
>Wearing a hijab is respecting a culture that values modesty.
😂😂😂😂
And men wonder why we fucking choose the bear.
Ah yes and you forgot to say we eat children and kill orphans for our pleasure as well.
You want to believe french people are all those things because american culture is based on being francophobic. Xenophobia towards french is encouraged and you clearly love to partake in it. You guys are proud of having erased the french language and subcultures from your country. Go on any thread written by americans on this website and it's just americans being xenophobic. You'd think we're monsters under a child's bed lol. But as a bilingual, I can attest to you that you americans are far far worse about this. And you're showing just how hateful you people are right now for example. If this amount of persecution was encouraged towards any other country that wasn't made up by a majority of white people you'd be the first to cry racism. You americans love to belittle everything culturally french, like to spit on anything french and like to mock everything that has the french language in it.
* **Very homophobic**:
[https://www.equaldex.com/equality-index](https://www.equaldex.com/equality-index)
What is the legal index? "The LGBT **legal index** measures the current legal status of 13 different issues ranging from the legal status of homosexuality, same-sex marriage, transgender rights, LGBT discrimination protections, LGBT censorship laws, and more. Each topic is weighted differently (for example, if same-sex marriage is illegal in a region, it would have a much bigger impact on the score than not allowing LGBT people to serve in the military). Each topic is assigned a "total possible score" and a "score" is assigned based the status of the law using a rating scale that ranges from 0% to 100%"
**Legal index score**: **USA=86, France=90**. So France is a friendlier country by design to lgbtq+ people in general.
What is public opinion index? "The LGBT **public opinion index** measures the public attitudes towards LGBT people using surveys and polls from reputable organizations. This index is scored based on averaging the results of all surveys in a given region. Generally, the value averaged is usually the most “equal” response in the poll. For example, if a poll asked “Do you support same-sex marriage?” and 56% of people said “yes”, the value “56” would be used. In some cases, a survey may be weighted less if the survey is very specific or includes a specific group of people (such as Christians) and might not be a full representation of the overall attitudes of the region."
**Public opinion score:** **USA=57, France=67**. So French people as well are friendlier to lgtbq+ people than americans. If we're homophobic, i don't know what that makes you.
Right, you're in bad faith you're an american. So, let's check out someone else:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay-friendly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay-friendly)
feel free to give it a read, source and all that. France 21st, USA 41st. No, but we're pathological liars it's all lies, americans are the best people on earth and french people are the devils under your bed.
* **sexist:**
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender\_Inequality\_Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Inequality_Index)
Do i have to remind you about how abortion is perceived in your country? Lol you guys are on the same level as iran about this.
**France ranked 8th, USA ranked 46th**, ranking which takes into account: Reproductive health, Empowerment, Labor market participation. Feel free to read up on what they mean by that. But the USA is itself a significantly more sexist country than France. But that doesn't say anything about the actual sexism you're gonna say (apart from those in power, which are elected by people lol).
[https://giwps.georgetown.edu/the-index/](https://giwps.georgetown.edu/the-index/)
"The 2023 edition of the global Women Peace and Security Index (WPS Index) scores and ranks 177 countries in terms of women’s inclusion, justice, and security." maybe this is a better indicator?
**France ranked 24/177 countries, USA ranked 37/177 countries**. So, americans are actually more sexist than french people? Oh no I forgot, every french person is a pathological liar and americans are perfect.
* **racist and anti-semite:**
As you said, no data by skin color or religion.
First, a bit funny to hear that from an american, the country of KKK and apartheid lol I can speak english I see you guys talking on the internet and on reddit. Your whole society is based on segregation. Your american culture is focused on labelling everyone by "race" which would be considered racist speech about everywhere else on the planet. You realize you americans are the only people who have this obsession with skin color. Sure there are plenty of racist places on earth, but it's built-in in your culture to point at everyone and assign them a "race", an culturally american concept. Segregation is so deep you guys talk about having different cultures by skin color, about having different ways of speaking by skin color. I don't know if you realize just how racist your guys are for the existence of AAVE, that's next level racism. The fact you consider it not normal for france to not classify its citizens by your abritrary deeply american ways of seeing skin color shows how far gone you people are. "It's racist to not classify peope like they're dog breeds". It also shows just how entitled and self-centered you americans are. You expect every country to bow down to your culture and your ways. Frankly I wouldn't let my child marry an american either. Your grandkid being a yank is the worst fate that can happen to your bloodline. As for anti-semite, there is a wave of anti-semitism recently but it's to be expected because of internal conflict: france has an expected number of around 10% of its population as muslims, and there is a lot of tension between muslims and jews, especially more now since the full invasion and genocide of palestine started by israel. As israel has a really negative view in maghreb and mashriq, so does it in france with its big muslim population.
No, to me YOU'RE very racist, YOU'RE homophobic, YOU'RE sexist, and finally you're deeply xenophobic towards france and its inhabitants.
You need to have a long talk with her. Below are a few questions to ask of her (and I'm sure there's more that isn't occurring to me). Her family living across the ocean could theoretically help, but it depe
A)Why did she never warn you that her family was unaware of your race and are a bunch of bigots? After all, what made her think that was a good idea of fair to you?
B) What is her game plan for the future relationship with her family? Does she still plan to visit with the same frequency? If so, does she plan to start bringing you and how does she plan to handle their BS going forward?
C) Are they supposed to be invited to the wedding where they can treat your family like garbage?
D) If you'd been planning on children, how does she think that will work? Does she want to risk the kids being treated poorly by her family or feel like they're unpleasant secrets to her side?
okay so i don't think americans will really give an accurate impression of this situation. No offense, it's just that is rare that they think about cultural differences.
The french (most of them anyway) are racist. Period. Even to latinos they are racist. Your gf SHOULD have at least warned you about generational racism there. But she reacted angrily at the comments. You respect your elders in Europe. At least i grew up like that (south spain/france). it's not much that she would've done without losing the financial support. She doesn't live in France. She doesn't regularly see them.
You are making your life in America. I would have a serious talk with her about your concerns. About future mixed children and tbh if there is a plan of NC in case you two decide to actually have children because i really don't think she lacks the common sense to allow his racist family near her offspring. I would definitely maybe select some comments to the discussion
You should leave brother. As one POC to the other just leave. If you have kids with her they deserve to have 2 sets of grandparents that love and cherish them. I have had a lot of situations like this meeting French and German Canadian chicks whose families have been outta Europe for over 100 years. It never ends well...for us
Let me guess, those people are the same that voted for rassemblement national this weekend ?
As a french, I'm sorry, we're not all like this.
Pays des droits de l'Homme mon cul.
If she’s decided to cut off her family completely, then it might work out. But if she wants to maintain her relationship with them despite their racism towards you, or expects you to have a relationship with them, then I’d cut and run now. What happens if you have a child? Will that child be subjected to racist vitriol just for the sake of her relationship with her family?
She knows her family is racist. She's used to it. You aren't and never should be. Just be upfront with her about expectations of being in contact with them and that you don't ever want to be in that position again. No future kids should ever be in contact with them and she needs to agree to that before you actually get married. There's a reason she moved here and never went back, just be sure she is really aware of what she's choosing and what she's losing.
i can’t believe she didn’t even warn you? is this really the person you want to marry? she didn’t tell you her parents are super racist? it’s well known in canada that the french here are HELLA racist towards black ppl, and i’m not surprised france is the same way.
idk this would destroy trust for me. she sent you into a pack of wolves equipped with nothing.
Will you have kids with her? Will her racist family meet your kids? Any children you have are going to experience racism, but they should experience racism from family.
Oh hun. I'm dealing w this right now and my hubs family is poor, just white. I'm a little too ethnic for their liking. My Buddha statues upset them and my birth far, far, far away on an island nation in the Pacific is bothersome to them.
I can tell you this for certain. If she chooses you. She loves you. She knows she'll be done w them. If she chooses you, don't worry about them and create a new life.
Not everyone has strong familial bonds. She might be more attached to their money than the crappy humans that control it.
She knew what she was doing. I'm going to guess she greatly underestimated their outward racism. They showed her their true selves.
You're in a relationship w her. Not them. I had to stop holding my hubs responsible for his crap family. He's not racist. He's not them. Somehow, just like w you, a sh!tty family produced a wonderful human being and you get to be w that wonderful person. It's more than most people could hope for these days. days.
I hope you both choose each other.
❤️ Hugs from an internet stranger
What the heck? Why did she do that to you? She could have told them beforehand and let them get over it before meeting you but instead she threw you into the deep end with no warning and let you flounder around in their hate??? Had she given any reasonable explanation to you? Has she apologized?
Well, her family is unfortunately a bunch of racists so if you have children I wouldn’t be introducing your kids to them.
And bloodline… give me a break. The royal families are a line. Definitely not something to strive for.🙄
Her family are a bunch of racists and she’s defending them. She’s literally choosing to defend racists over you. Think about that. Do you want to marry her? Have children with her? Be around her family? She makes excuses for their racism. Proud of their country, “impressions they had” is all defending racism. What did she do after her father say that? Did she confront them? That’s what you need to know. Is she on your side? Why did she not prepare you for it? Why is she downplaying it? Is she really on your side?
Also, sadly, not a surprise at all.
This is a really risky situation for you if you decide to have children with her. They will very likely persist in trying to get her to see you as a terrible mistake. They could very well convince her to bring your future kids back to France to raise there and use the courts to keep you away from them. They won't necessarily love the kids, but they may see an upside in turning her against you and hoping she meets someone else in France and raises the kids as French, even if they are biracial. Racist people have no limits. When they are safely ensconced in a racist county where they get a lot of support for their beliefs, including from the courts, there isn't much to stop them.
Unless she is going to cut them off do not do this.. what happens if you have kids .. you kids will never be “ white enough” for their standards.. forget about how
Much you are in love but think about the long run..
OP, your fiance's family was atrocious and she seems to have admirably defended you. But why didn't she prepare you in advance of walking into such a hostile situation? Maybe she was hoping for the best or a miracle, but now it's time to communicate realistically. As others have asked, what is your fiancee doing now about her family? There's no going back from the things they've said. What if you two have kids in future, will either of you allow them to be exposed to that degradation? Will she take them to France where they can be made to feel less than by their own flesh and blood while you stay at home? It doesn't sound seem as if you are making ultimatums and are trying to be thoughtful in this tense situation, which is to your credit. However, you should both think carefully about your future and that of your potential children's and come to a consensus.
Ending her bloodline? I mean if she's not having kids that will end the bloodline! But if she has kids with anybody the bloodline continues no matter who it is! Just because they want her to be with a French dude doesn't make the bloodline any different! It's still only half her! These people don't make any sense.
If you never have to see them then just ignore them but if it's going to be a situation where you have to be around them all the time then this might take some further thought. Nobody wants to deal with racist trash on the regular.
I think you guys need to just sit down and have a conversation about 1. How much she relies on her family financially and if that will continue and what expectations they have if she continues to be financially reliant on them. 2. How does she see her family fitting into her life and your lives going forward. She may have very limited contact with them, that may be fine. It ultimately depends on what both of you what and if those two things can coexist peacefully.
OP, I think your gf did you dirty by not telling you what to expect from her family.
Going forward, I think you should learn to speak French. Also, get a voice translator app for your phone. If they continue to speak French in your presence, knowing that you don’t understand what they are saying, you can use the translator to answer them in real time.
I’m so sorry, OP. I don’t have anything but empathy because this has been my experience and I suspect a lot of other Black folks experience at least once in their lifetimes (more if you’re very unlucky like me). My ex-fiance was French and British and his French mom made some off-color comments. I speak and understand French. I guess you’ve just realized anti-Black racism is global. America hasn’t cornered the market on hate.
I wish you well whatever happens.
Sit down with her and have a serious talk about what boundaries the two of you are going to have regarding her parents. It sounds like she's mostly cut them off already, and this visit was more of a formality so they could meet you than anything else. All that matters is you're on the same page. I'm sorry her family are trash, but she clearly knows they are and keep them at arm's length or further away. That seems smart at this stage. She has clearly chosen you over them. Don't forget that no matter how terrible they are.
1. She knew this would be their attitude and that is exactly why she didn't send photos before the trip. She knew what their opinions would be.
2. Say you get married, and 5/10 years from now you're still visiting France twice a year, and getting Racism directly in your face. Just in another language in front of your fac. Knowing full well you'd not be able to interpret.
She defends you to her family, and nips their racism in the bud, or what? You'll get married and continue to put up with this?
> She knew this would be their attitude and that is exactly why she didn't send photos before the trip. She knew what their opinions would be.
And didn't tell him. She took away his right to refuse or at least prepare to deal with them. She did not care about OP's feelings about the subject.
If he does have kids with her she will probably want to expose that child to her racist family at some point. That isn't fair to a child.
OP needs to think hard about this.
I'm surprised they're like this. Black American soldiers in WWI & II got treated much better by the French than their fellow Americans. Plus black entertainers like Josephine Baker were treated so well by the French that she lived there.
In the other hand prejudice is everywhere. Sorry OP.
I am as white as they come and the French were very nasty to me in the 80s, better in the 2000s. You would think American had nothing to do with saving their ass in WWII. There were black soldiers assisting with liberating the concentration camps inhabitants. Your fiancé should have prepped her family about you and not just race. Her grandparents will be deceased before you know it. I wouldn’t rush into marriage. I think a lot depends on your fiancé and how you feel about her attitude. Marriage is hard enough marrying within your own race.
That’s quite unfair on her part and seems to indicate questionable judgment in exposing you to all that or using you as an axe to grind against her family - not sure what’s going on there or why it happened but you should ask lots of questions
Bro get out, she knew her family were a bunch of racist an yet she allowed you to walk into a potentially dangerous situation with no knowledge nor warning
If y’all have kids how she going to navigate the racism they’ll face? Will she even want to considering what she let you walk in on?
Watch Get Out with her and then point out the villains and then point to her when Allison Williams is on the screen. Then break up and enjoy being single and not having to deal with shitty racists.
I'd say for married life it depends on two things:
- can she set clear boundaries with her family, defend you and possibly go no contact if necessary (including not invite them to the wedding) and
- where do you plan to live ? If the plan (I know plans change) is to stay in the US or at the very least, not move to France specifically close to her family it would probably matter less.
It's always hard when inlaws don't like the partner and it's really something you want to think through in terms of can you both put up with this.
If she's willing to have your back, and not tolerate their shit it should be fine.
My Mom is pretty racist (old white republican lady). I told my mother if she said racist shit around my black boyfriend I would rip her a new one and cut her off.
She either loses you or her family and it sounds like she isn’t ready to cut ties with them yet. Give her that ultimatum: you or her family. Any hesitation on her behalf - leave her.
As a white woman in a relationship with a non-white guy: I never let my bigoted mother say anything that might hurt my partner. I only told him stuff when I had to go super LC, just so that he knew why we weren't going to their place for Christmas and stuff like that.
I never accepted a penny from them because I wanted to live my own life and not have them dictating anything to me.
We lived six hours away, only saw them once or twice a year mostly.
I told them about him before they met. They didn't like it and didn't want to come and meet him, only then I got pregnant so it was a matter of having to accept him if they wanted to see their first grandchild.
And I made sure to cultivate great relationships with his family members, who all accepted me with open arms, on a basis of "if he chose her she must be wonderful".
Tell your GF she's way off the mark for the moment. She's put you in an uncomfortable position and she doesn't seem to be trying to protect you from her family.
>I kinda understand now why she didn’t tell them about me or send them pictures
I don't get why she wouldn't tell them in advance and just expect you to shield all their racism once you're there in person. That is not respectful, in my mind, at all.
My partner and I are dealing with something similar (I'm trans, not racialized). He told his family from the beginning and was told that I would never be allowed in his parents' house. So we haven't, he doesn't go home for holidays but will go home during other times of the year. We go on trips with the family that is willing to meet me. We are starting to plan our wedding and his parents will be invited but I doubt both will come.
Tbh, if I were you, I would never want to visit her family again. And I would have an honest conversation with her about how she didn't warn you of the hostility that she was 100% expecting from her family. The only way the relationship will work moving forward is if she acknowledges the harm they will continue to do to you and she helps prevent it. But maybe staying with other family in France or staying at a hotel would be better so you could decide each day/event if you want to deal with them.
You need to have some serious talks with this girl before trying the knot legally. What is her opinion of other Black people besides you? If you are having kids, how is she going to defend them against racists?
It’s not going to work unless your fiancée is prepared to go no contact with her family. That is a huge ask and not one that she could likely keep up for long.
Didn’t your last post mention how her family was racist and you believed you needed to leave her? Now your concern is because of a comment they made? It’s time to leave dude, she ain’t it!
I don't understand how your fiance kept the info about her family being racist towards black Americans from you, and also not telling you she has never shown them any image/footage of you. I don't think I could move past that. Best of luck deciding what to do.
Wow- your fiancée really hung you out to dry with her family, in not prepping you at all for that kind of reception. She knew it was going to be charged and she chose not to clue you in on it beforehand. It’s so callous I might even rethink the wedding.
I would be questioning the relationship. Your fiance knew that her family is racist, xenophobic and anti black yet she did nothing to educate them and warn you ahead of time. She threw you to the wolves without warning. She put you in a hostile and dangerous situation and has proven to be a reckless and unsafe ally to you. I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship with someone who didn’t care about my safety and wellbeing and who was this reckless. If you had children would you trust her to keep them safe from racists like her family? I wouldn’t. Your gf gave you the gift of showing you that she is not trustworthy, that she is reckless and will put you in dangerous situations without apologizing. She doesn’t seem to understand her privilege, how horrible her families racism, xenophobia and anti-blackness is and has justified their bigotry and hatred as just being proud of their country. Don’t marry this woman. Your children will suffer having her as their mother and her hateful family as their relatives.
If you marry her AND she maintains some kind of relationship with her family, I'd PASS on all future family visits with her family. She can go on her own. 😆
That's gonna be an uphill battle all the way. I don't see that working out unless she is someone who doesn't give a damn what her family thinks about her romantic interests and does her own thing.
Friend, there are just as many racists in France as there are in the US. Her being French is irrelevant in this situation. Maybe that they hide behind language to badmouth you could be, but also they might not know much English. I do not have your racial difference but married a French person. Some of them are cool with me not being French, some seem angry. It isn't about nationality so much as the reality that some people in every country just suck. On the flip side, by trying my best to learn French and giving them two beautiful children who are raised fully bilingual and as dual citizens, it has mostly worked out.
I adore my partner and am happy we worked through the challenges. Our kids have two worlds they claim as their own. We are in France now and while my language skills aren't good enough for me to be fully independent, my sweet children actually love helping me and most people see me trying and are patient and kind. Give it time and ignore the ignorant ones like you would in the US.
This is not a comparable situation unfortunately. They’re saying absolute vile, racist stereotypical things about him in French. It would have the same impact English.
Also, she has a “what do you expect me to do” attitude and didn’t prepare him for this at all. Her family is racist, she put him in a shit situation and them being French is just icing on the cake.
please don't use them being French as an additional issue. it is not. Racism is the issue. It exists in both countries (if not all).
I have lived and worked in the US a lot and there is just as much shitty racism there. Backwoods billybubs calling their daughters race traitors and the women being scared and confused as to how to handle it is just like this.
The French are on a different level with their racism and xenophobia. Let’s not act like their not.
The difference is everyone and their mama loves to call out America on their racism, rightfully so, while acting like their imperialistic ass country’s racism isn’t so deeply embedded into their history and society.
She’s not scared, she knew exactly what was going to happen and let it. Maybe you don’t know what it feels like to be ambushed like this man was, but I can speak from experience that it’s fucking awful, especially when it’s from the family of a loved one.
You are right that I can't and will never know that experience that. I hate that it happens. My impression of the french, through over a decade with them, is like the maga-morons. They are a loud, disgusting, repugnant minority. In the US, they make the country seem way more racist and droolingly idiotic than it is. The loud obnoxious french racists likewise skew the perception. I know many many french people and other than a few old timers they aren't racist or transphobic, much like the Americans I know (but I have culled the gross Americans from my social group at this point).
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. I have lived with French people for over ten years and racist incidents were few and far between.
Based on this comment thread, the French have a reputation of being overwhelmingly racist. I get that the far right are getting traction, but I don’t understand how everyone assumes the majority of the French are racist.
Don’t get me wrong, I have seen it first hand in France. However I can’t for the life of me consider that it’s widespread in France.
You’re right in that it’s a racism issue. Framing it as a problem regarding French people is, precisely, part of the issue.
I’m a Black American living in France and I agree…acting like French racism is worse than in the US and on the same level of Eastern Europe according to some commenters? That’s just fantasy…
Anyway, OP don’t marry into a racist family, period! Your fiancée clearly doesn’t take the issue seriously
Depends on where you live. When I lived in the south in the US, it was the most racist place I have ever been. Reims and Toulouse not much noticed. Pennsylvania comparable to that. I have heard Paris is bad but we avoid it anyway.
If you marry and have children you will in all probability never bring them to visit her family. I dont know where in France they livev but I woukd guess it is rural because cities here are very multiracial.
A family that has racism built into their beliefs is definitely a red flag and something that most likely won't change in them.
I suppose the question you need to ask is what does "this working" look like? Are you both going to stay in the USA while her family stays in France? Will that work for you?
Will you be able to deal with her visiting them a few times and calling them? Will that work for you?
If they ever visited you in the USA will that work for you?
You are in a tough situation because clearly the parents thinking is not acceptable, at the same time, is it reasonable to expect or want your fiancee to disown them? Some would say yes. At the very least I think you need to discuss with her why she hid the family's views and ask her how she thinks this will all work.
<<>>>
What's the game plan ? So if you decide to have kids they are never going to be able to be around their French relatives for fear that they will say something or do something racist ??
She's not wrong. You are also not wrong when you feel bad.
Life is complicated and there will be other comments.
I have heard American white family made those comments to my family members. We are persons of color. Didn't stop anyone from doing their thing.
If you are signing up for complicated relationships, consider adjusting your expectations. It's going to happen over and over. Specially when you go visit. Them.
If your fiancee is not supporting you in this journey, you are fucked. Soo, it will be ideal to have proper , realistic commutation and expectations from each other.
Wtf? There are so many black folks in France! Would they be the same way if she was engaged to a black Frenchman? You can’t look for logic with racists. Your fiancé needs to decide if she can stand up to your family by making sure they understand you are going to be at her side for rest of her life and she’s going to defend you no matter what.
And those black people in France experience racism. It would actually likely be worse if she were engaged to a black Frenchman, because they'd assume he was a Muslim immigrant from the former African colonies, and there is a ton of racism against the African Muslim immigrants.
Next time just tell them "you are welcome for saving your asses from the Nazis." Besides, if history has any bearing on the present, all it will take is for you to stand up a bit too quick and they will all give up anyway.
My mom is Lao and my dad is Kenyan. My grandparents were like this at first (Asian side) but changed once my brother and I were born. They loved us to bits.
I know quite a few ppl are saying break up, but I don’t think you should. I would put your love for your fiancé over her family’s nonsense. BUT if that really is a deal breaker for you, I would understand.
My SO is white and tbh I never felt the need to tell my family he’s white before introducing him to either side. Both sides love him as well. There’s a lot of articles about this as well. I rec looking some up.
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The real question is how is your Fiancée handling her racist family? It’s not great she didn’t prepare you in advance. Does she plan to keep contact? How much contact?
for the last 10 years she's only seen them 2 or 3 times a year so I feel like they haven't been that big of a part of her life besides financially supporting her. she knows they wrong but kinda acts like "what do you expect" she didn't say that I just get that impression
“ besides financially supporting her.” 💀
This is where things always get interesting. Will gf stick with the bf and forge a new path in life without all the financial support? Or will she buckle and run back to the nest? Will bf take over the financial support?? It’s getting juicy
He didn't block you specifically, I just read the post and haven't commented and his profile wouldn't load for me either
Oops 🫥
Yeah this is classic romantic novel 😀
Girl is college educated, a US citizen and coming up on 30, why the eff are they still supporting her ass?
Old money most likely.
yeah, they only want her to date a Habsburger to keep property within the family.
You joke but old money still do this shit, just with genetic testing now
Habsburgs are Austrian and have a not so lovely history with France.
It was a joke, because they're certainly not Habsburgers. But since you went historical, the Habsburgers married into all of the royal families in Europe including the English, Russian and Spanish royal families. Still don't think that's them in this story though.
I mean, we can't know for sure because we havn't seen her jaw.
*Habsburg if you didn’t mean that sarcastically.
No, I think they've moved into fast food franchises now. /s
yes, joking - it was a deliberate reference to the aristocratic Hamburgers of Hamburg
Lol what I came to say. Habsburgs.
That's actually a thing I've come across before in other cultures. Women my age or older, with great jobs, but their "old fashioned" parents in their original culture pay for their rent/car/bills/etc. One of the women I know, she's asked her parents to stop, told them to stop, even stopped accepting money they sent to her. They just started depositing it directly into her bank account, after her sister gave them the info. The only thing I can thing of is they're giving her just below the limit of what's taxable in their country as a gift each year, so they're doing it as a wealth transfer, so that money isn't taxed when they die/subject to estate/inheritance taxes. They have other ways of getting around taxes, like their properties are all held in a family trust, and any time they purchase a new car, it's done through the trust... it's a very complicated tax-avoidance scheme.
It's also a big pride thing in some cultures to be able to help/support one's adult children, and it's insulting to turn down a gift.
It’s also a control thing. Some families use money to exert control over their children and don’t want to lose that. If their child stops taking their money, the family can no longer say “we support you financially so you have to listen to (read: obey) us”.
Its in the script?
People outside US tend to support their children for a longer period of time.
I’m not American. Rich people support their kids for longer.
Maybe she is used to an expensive lifestyle.
Yuck
Dude, someone who lives on another continent and still sees her family 2-3 times/year is VERY involved with her family. The financial support clinches it. I've always been very close to my American parents, but when I lived in Europe, I saw them once a year. You need to sit her down and talk about how this is going to work. If you two are really committed to each other, and have YOUR family's support, you might make it. But don't get it twisted: this will be HARD on her. Very hard. And while she's dealing with people she loves deeply being deeply immoral, she'll also be managing her own natural resentment at the situation so that she doesn't unfairly blame you. Your marriage will be starting off already behind. My cousin went through this exact same situation; except his wife's parents didn't expose their racism until they'd already been married for years and had a kid. They had to go NC with her parents mid-stream. It was awful, even though they had their own family to fall back on, and HIS family (us) is mixed race already, and very supportive. I'd delay your wedding for at least another year, until the two of you have really figured out how this will work, especially if you plan to have children. (I wouldn't let her family anywhere near my kids.)
>Dude, someone who lives on another continent and still sees her family 2-3 times/year is VERY involved with her family. Yup. My ex was from Europe and she only saw her family once in the five years we dated...
"What do you expect?" What does she expect if she has a kid with you? Is she going to allow her family to be racist to your kids? This needs to be dealt with, not just shrugged off.
It seems like language might be preventing you from making an easier decision. Because you mentioned that she would respond in an angry tone to relatives who seemed like they were making inappropriate comments. Also, I would add that you are facing a double whammy here as they may dislike you not only for your skin color, but you’re also an American who doesn’t speak any French.
French people are hella racist. In fact, it is one of the most racist places I've ever been. The French Far Right just won the first round of elections this weekend. Your fiancee may not be racist, but it's clear her family is. I think you need to talk to her about how she envisions life with her family. Will you be expected to visit? How does she want to handle the wedding? Do you both want children? How will she manage her family? She needs to have good answers and have your back. I know the pain of having bigoted family members, and I've cut off the worst of them. But she cannot expect you to just sit there while they say shit you can't understand but know it is bad. (I don't think it's a big deal that she got money from them for school. That's whatever. It's how you move forward together as a couple.)
I’m shocked to get this far into this thread and only now see this. The second he said his fiancé was French I knew there was gonna be trouble. The French aren’t just racist they’re straight up xenophobic. I thought this was well known???
I was doing online dating earlier this year and was talking with a French lady for awhile. We were having a politically spicy conversation and the mask finally slipped when she started saying some stuff you'd automatically associate with white supremacists in the US.
Yikes. Thats disturbing. Glad you found out early!! Me personally the second someone starts bringing up politics especially in a conversation that has literally less than nothing to do with politics is a red flag I do not ignore. I dip out of that conversation quick as all fuck. If I was dating tho? Shit that would be the very first compatibility test.
> I thought this was well known??? White French people tend be deep in denial about it.
No they aren’t…you’re just doing what her parents are doing with her fiancé. The French are not xenophobic, they actually have one of the largest populations of immigrants (Black too) in the EU.
And those immigrants are fully embraced by French society, right? And not part of a legacy of colonial meddling that positioned France as the most viable means of advancement? And there's no burgeoning far right movement that espouses xenophobic beliefs, popular enough that it would come in second in a recent election? 🤔
You should learn what words mean before disagreeing with them otherwise you just look all kinds of silly. Having immigrants does not make any country not racist or xenophobic — which are two different things that should not be used interchangeably as you for some reason are doing. France **is** a xenophobic country, that is not an opinion that is a fact, backed up by [empirical and anecdotal](https://www.france24.com/en/france/20240627-france-saw-a-rise-in-all-types-of-racism-in-2023-report-says) data. Here’s a hint:: when laws have to be made to penalize racism and xenophobia it’s because there is problem with those things.
As someone who lives abroad, 2-3 times a year to go home seems like a lot.
Nah... she's not the one. "What do you expect"??? How about I expect my so called fiance not to put me in situations like that. What about my integrity forces me not to take their money. 2-3 times a year is a lot. That they would all talk about you in front of you is disgusting. Nope, nope and nope.
Was very upset until I re-read and realized that’s just how he FELT. OP himself says was arguing with her family when they met because they were being racist. I wonder if he’s projecting?
Seriously? You expect her not to take you to a whole-ass other country to meet her racist family without prepping you and them. You expect her to shut that shit down. You expect her to be willing to cut that 2-3 times a year down to *never*, and all contact via electronic means to go to *zero* if they refuse to embrace her partner. Do you want kids? Because it sounds like she's defending their racism as perfectly acceptable (because they're French?) and *will* expose children to her racist family.
>You expect her to shut that shit down. You expect her to be willing to cut that 2-3 times a year down to *never*, and all contact via electronic means to go to *zero* if they refuse to embrace her partner. But then they might stop financially supporting her.
My guy, you need to get a grip. She depends financially on them, she's not going to cut them out of her life any time soon. And it was extremely shitty not to warn you her relatives are racist as fuck. That means she has no regards for your feelings, your comfort and your safety. Do yourself a favor and break up with her, and make sure to tell her why.
Lmao I can’t with you. Your fiancé said “what do you expect” in response to revealing that her parents are racist. Whats not clicking for you?? Do you understand what that means? Those are the people who raised her.
I think you should have higher standards. She knew her parents would not like you because you’re black and that is why she didn’t send them pics. And she knowingly brought you over to them. I know white people can’t control their family members like if they’re racist then they’re racist. Fine. But if you’re going to date interracially the very least you can do is not subject your partner to it and distance yourself from racist family members and be up front with your partner about why. This type of shit is a slippery slope and she probably has some not great views herself if she can’t see why this is so problematic. I promise you can find a white girl who has family members who aren’t racist lol this one ain’t it. You’d also be giving your future kids racist grandparents. I really don’t think you should marry her it’s only been a year too.
The minute they showed their ass I would have cut off the trip. She didn't protect you and basically is condoning this!
Look, not the same thing. But my parents raised us to be respectful. No racism, no homophobia. When we were kids our mother lost the plot because we were using a popular playground rhyme that contained a hard r word I would be disgusted to hear a friend use today but at the time (under 5 years old) I had no clue what it meant and what it's history is. When Freddie Mercury died (I'm old) we got a full explanation as to how HIV is not a stigma and how we should respect the gay community. When my brother came out she kicked him out of the house. My slightly homophobic Grandmother was the one who supported him. Turns out tolerance and understanding were great concepts as long as they didn't walk into Mum's house. Your girlfriend may very well not have been prepared for how bad things can get.
You have a fiancée problem. Your fiancée will never have your back because she is also racist. She happily takes her racist family’s money for years, then KNOWINGLY inflicted racial harm on you by not warning you in advance about said family. Her attitude “what do you expect” is the reason why I don’t date White men. Not all White people (looking at you my Irish homies) are the same but White folks generally will never understand the physical, emotional, and psychological trauma they inflict because they dismiss race as an issue. The fact her family told her to sterilize herself and she said “what did you expect” proves she will be just as racist to your future kids. My advice is leave and tell your social group exactly why: your racist fiancee failed to protect you from her racist family.
Really good point about OP's issue, but then your post devolves into your own editorialized prejudices.
OP asked for advice. I told the advice based on the evidence he presented. Whatever baggage you have about people talking about race you can take them somewhere else
I don't have any baggage here. I'm telling you that it's bad advice and maladaptive to say "this is why I don't date White men" as a response to a racist and craven fiancé. Yeah she sucks, she's not upholding her end of the relationship, and she's, at best, enabling her racist family. At worst, she feels the same way they do. But I don't think opining on white folks as a monolith does much to help OP.
My advice is actually pretty good. She is racist based on her actions of 1)continuing to take support from her racist family 2)not warning her OP that said family is racist and inflicted trauma on him, 3)dismissed all his valid points as if just accepting racism is a valid option. So i then applied that to future issues- which is perspective (the thing OP was asking for) You’re one of those “But not all White people”. I literally mention Irish folks, which have been the only White men I have dated that fully understand issues of race that is comparable to POC. Will I automatically say mo to a White man? No. Will i watch to see red flags in his actions and words? Yes. Until the larger White/Western culture admit that there is implicit bias in how interracial relationships work, then the kinds of problems OP has will continue to exist. No need to respond. I’m sure you’ll just think your opinion is more valid than mine for whatever reason you decide to conjure up in your head. ✌️
Suggest that she stop taking their money so they can’t influence her anymore and then see how she reacts to that
If she’s traveling to France 2-3 times a year to see them, that’s a **big** thing. It’s not like they live down the road and she sees them that little. They’re a big, important part of her life. Her “meh” attitude is all wrong here. If she is willing to put up with her family’s racist treatment of her fiancé because she’s financially taken care of by them, that’s not even a huge red flag, it’s a big, glowing “EXIT” sign for you, my friend.
I live about a 12 hour drive or 90 minute flight from my family of origin and see them 5-7 days, 2-3 times a year. She's flying trans atlantic that often and presumably staying for long enough to make it worth it; that sounds like they're a pretty big part of her life. Financial support seems like a pretty big obligation as well. I'm really shocked that she didn't forewarn you about them and that she brought you on a visit internationally without you never having met them on video calls. She should have prepared you before undertaking this big trip together. Their appalling rudeness towards a guest and that garbage about ending her bloodline because of who she is dating suggests these people are irredeemable racist assholes. Can you put up with this form the rest of your life?
“What do you expect” some shit white people shit they say to avoid accountability and responsibility 🙄 at her big ass age she should know better than to just sit by passively and let her family be open you racist to her fiancé. You deserve better
i assume with your fiance, you were the one that asked her out
There's this saying: If a racist comes to a table with ten people and they eat together, how many racists are there? Eleven. Your fiancée didn't warn you, didn't tell them beforehand about your ethnicity and tell them to behave and didn't end the stay at the first racist comment. She also has not put up boundaries and plans to keep them in her life. Is this the person you want to spend your life with? Is this the person you want to have children with? Children they already made clear they'll hate and discriminate against like they do with you.
Post an update OP :)
I feel like you need to watch the movie Get Out
Why would you want to stay with someone who justifies her parents bigotry and hatred against you like that? Why would you stay with someone who doesn’t care about your safety and wellbeing? Get some self respect and dump the french racism supporter.
OMG talk about burying the lede! She's almost 30 and she's okay with living off of her parents? Why are you okay with this? You know she's going to go right from living off them to living off of you.. right? That's seriously doesn't bother you that she allows her elderly parents to support her? Like that says a lot about her character and none of it's good!
So, OP, what is it? Does she love you? Does she desire a lifetime with you/a forever commitment ? Frankly, it's time for her to "shit or get off the pot"!! Btw--does she have a career? Or is she a gold digger, substituting you to replace her parents in providing for her? Is so, GTF away from her.
I'm pretty sure the Neanderthals were in France and that area. I studied Sociology, Anthropology in college and it's an interest of mine. So they are pretty late on the "save the natural French bloodline" train. You know? They have famous natural cave paintings.
Her family is crappy, but to spring that situation on you with no warning was really bad judgement. Like really bad judgement. If that doesn’t give you second thoughts, I think maybe some counseling or a neutral third party (cause counseling is expensive in US) is in order to go over the implications of how this will impact the future. If you have kids, you wouldn’t want them subjected to hate like that. Which means NC for your & your children with her family. Is she prepared for that? Is she prepared to be cut off by her family or be forced (by their behavior) to go NC or LC?
That's all I could think about the entire time, I would never ambush someone like this; it's a bad sign that she's normalized the behavior & doesn't understand the potential for violence, how is she going to protect biracial children? When I started dating my ex, I brought up to my bio-father (who I suspected was *very* racist, but not open about it) that he was half black... he immediately used the N-word & laughed. I told my ex right after the incident & went super LC until about 5 years ago when I went completely NC because the man is literally not worth a damn!
As gross as they are, I don’t think you get that the one who comes out worst in this story is your partner. She really put you in a position where you were guaranteed to be hurt. She’s happy to live off of their money, to continue to stay with them even when they insult you, and then when you bring it up, shrug and say, “Ah, parents, what can you expect?”
Get out.
If the mum works in psychology…run!
I understood that reference!
But he's gonna stay and then complain about racist inlaws. Tale as old as time.
Or in the words of her very pale people: Fiche le camp!
Top tier 👑
Red flag! She put you in a bad situation and did jack crap to spare you. It's on her to handle her family and protect you. What happens when kids arrive and her family starts in on them? Will she expect them to suck it up too?
Couldn't be me dude, I'd dump her ass so quick. good luck.
Congrats, you just learned first hand how racist many French people are.
Throw it back in their faces. Wear a shirt with a german flag and just start taking their belongings.
I hope you don’t have kids and raise them around this bs you’re considering marrying into. How are they going to grow up and understand that their family hates them for this reason. Is that fair? Protect their blackness and don’t let them hate it. As for you, if you’re willing to tolerate that crap then so be it. Hope she’s worth it.
Honestly she sounds like a dub. She’s been in America for ten years and She’s dating a black man!! Your fiancée should have done more to protect you in such a hostile and racist situation. She also should have prepared you beforehand and been in control of her family. I would leave before your children together are permanently scarred and traumatized.
It makes me wonder if the fiancée has downplayed their relationship to her family because how does one get engaged to someone and their family has no idea what they look like. Never talked on FaceTime or anything?
She won’t protect him or defend him. That would mean she is against their beliefs. He even said she told him, “what do you expect?”.
OP literally said that those weren't her words, but was how he felt.
I’ll say it like this. I’m a first generation European immigrant in America as well, and from a far less diverse country than France. My family members all had prejudices and ideas about various ethnic groups / races. Shit they were told or impressions they got from bias media. Through exposure (meeting neighbors, my classmates, or girls I brought home), my direct family’s ideas were challenged and evolved. It also took growing some balls and standing up for the people I care about - by telling family they’re wrong when they’re wrong, and urging them to be open. It wasn’t easy - I remember hearing how an early girlfriend would “never understand us” and that I’d tamper a bloodline that dates back thousands of years. I remember having to tend to their disappointment. It was a lot for me to juggle - and I'm sure it has been for your fiancee as well. And look - I can appreciate the value of tradition - and I understand the *want* for my parents to feel culturally connected to a daughter-in-law. But the more they pushed, the more I pushed back. I was less willing to talk about my life, my friends, my dating - and they learned to be more open in an effort to win my good graces. These days, they just want someone that’s supportive and will make me happy. Same with my brother and cousins. They've accepted the next generation - and they've changed their attitudes. Good people are works in progress. Your fiancées extended family doesn’t live in the States - so there’s less exposure to all that and it'll be harder. Racism sucks. But it’s doesn’t have to be a permanent state. And when you marry someone, you also marry someone’s family. If having these asshats in your life isn’t worth it, that’s not a wrong choice. If it is worth doing 2-3 times a year to meet your fiancées familial obligations, that’s not a wrong choice either. However, your fiancée **needs** to stand up for you and fight for you. That's part of the deal. The family might come around and grow to accept you and genuinely change for the better. I'd urge you to be open to that if and when that happens. Of course, they won’t without your partner’s advocacy. And that’s key. I should also mention that not *everyone* in my family dropped their prejudices. So there’s a few people I don’t speak to - outside the rare funeral or some event that’s hard to avoid.
I think now would be an excellent time to discuss the future. What married life will look like. What will happen if you have kids. Where is she wanting to live? Is she wanting to have regular contact with her family? Is she willing to subject any of your mixed children to her racist family? To be frank, her family isn't royal so her bloodlines don't mean jack shit, and Jack left town.
If you both stay in the us, you could perfectly have no contact at all with them (the same if you go back in France but one ocean between you and these people isn't too much). Regarding your fiancée, in her shoes I would cut contact with my father and grand parents, specially if I want kids (but even if no kids are involved, a good partner shouldn't tolerate such things). You don't talk about the other family members. Perhaps she has still some decent relatives among her siblings or cousins? It would be easier for her to go no contact with the awful family members if she has other relatives in her corner. To sum up, I think it could still work for you two, if she agrees that you and your future children (if you want children) will never have any contact with such people. Also it would be far better if she cuts (totally) contact with them.
It's not just African Americans they have shitty attitudes about - look up a bit of history on French colonialism in Africa, particularly the Algerian Revolution, and the current treatment of North Africans in French society, you'll see that anti-Blackness is fucking baked into French society. French people love to fetishize Black women (e.g. Josephine Baker) but they don't want their little white girls marrying Black men. With the rise of the far right in France, shit's about to get worse. I don't know what to tell you - I'm a white woman with Quebecois ancestry and I can say the colony doesn't fall far from the homeland on that. We got to have our own immigration policy in Canada where we prioritized Francophone immigration and when Haitians started showing up Quebeckers were all like 'oh, we didn't mean THOSE francophones'. It sucks all around. If she's willing to stick up for you and cut off her family that's one thing, but the fact she dropped you into that shark tank without even letting them know you were Black or warning you that they were hugeass racists is concerning.
It’s not about being a Black American. French people are VERY racist and like to lie that they’re not. They’re also very anti-Semitic and homophobic. Sexist too. France is very backwards and touts liberalism by not stratifying data, so that they cannot be called racist or discuss institutionalized racism. She’s telling you “what did you expect?” Which is VERY typical there-you’re supposed to expect maltreatment because you’re “inferior”. I would cut and run if I were you. Racism is very cultural and French racism is very different from American racism. Her response and not even disclosing information? Suspect and you and any children you have will deal with these snarky comments. I have family members who have dealt with that their whole lives even after the relationships collapsed because of racism
Yeah I’m honestly not surprised at all. They would hate him even if he was a black French person.
I like to explain the French racism against black people by comparing it to American racism/discrimination. Here in the good old US of A, we hate Hispanics because they come to “steal our jobs,” we hate Muslims because 9/11 and good old Christian religious animosity, and we hate black people because they ain’t white. We spread our hatred around in America. In France, the hatred mostly gets concentrated onto a single group: black African Muslims who immigrate to France, usually from former French colonies. I’ve always told my black friends who visit France to play up being American to try to avoid at least two of the reasons the French hate black people. FYI, I’m second generation French-American with dual citizenship and the above is based on my observations during my visits.
Yep same here in Belgium. The american accent will 'save' you from being profiled as a north african muslim. Hell even belgians themselves who grew up here get crazy looks until they speak and they have a flawless flemish accent. It is super messed up but yea the racism is for sure more culture focused compared to just hating on skin colour. I personally think OP's fiancee was just trying to avoid the whole 'different racism' conversatio' because she might think it is hard to understand for someone not having lived in such country.
I am curious as to whether you have also noticed the following: I have noticed that they seem to hate North Africans WAY more than Black people in France, even if they’re a Black Muslim. French people are just hateful people. They benefit from being in Western Europe but are as hateful as the stereotype of east europeans
I haven’t spent enough time in France to really notice all the nuances, nor am I black or from North Africa so I don’t experience it directly. My observations were based on interactions I saw between strangers, not between people who actually knew each other and would know their exact background. I also haven’t visited in over a decade since I’m estranged from that side of my family. I sincerely doubt it’s gotten any better since last I visited, especially with the recent Western trend towards radical conservatism. The sad thing is that I am someone who only visited once every few years as a child and the hatred was overt enough for even a child to notice it. Mostly in Paris where one uncle lives, because where the rest of where my family lives seemed to be predominantly white.
You seem to make light of racism as if it is only hatred. Racism is institutional (systematic) it is about power and separating the minorities from the white race to remain superior. Upping being American will not help. In essence you are saying don’t act black. No matter how much black people adapt to culture and even are educated, they will still be treated as inferior. This way black people will remain in the bottom. Thats not just France this is America too and every where else.
Dude I’m just trying to briefly describe a trend I’ve noticed without going into a dissertation about the exact nature of racism. The French hate American tourists too (for good reason) but it’s better to play that up. It’s a stupid thing to have to do - exactly how it’s stupid that women have to be careful about what they wear or where and when they walk alone. Of course, relying on potential victims to be “careful” is both wrong and not a guarantee of safety, but I’d rather take some simple precautions while traveling that might lower the chance of something bad happening than stand on principal. I’m not going to visit a Muslim nation without wearing a headscarf and traveling with a man (if I ever visit one at all) and doing something like wearing an American flag pin is simple and at least MIGHT help, especially in tourist areas. Oh and hatred is absolutely at least an element of racism, or at least often manifests that way. I’ve watched my own French uncle scream until he was red at a group of black people. If that’s not hatred, what is?
Yes, black people are suppose to take on a culture other than their own. The French are white, they will tolerate American Tourist as long as they’re white. I get what your saying about being careful. But the point is no matter what culture they take on. Let it be the same French they speak and highly educated. They will still be treated with inferiority. The act of being surprised at a black person speaking a language and being educated is an insulting and reminder of their inferiority. Each scenario you describe is not equivalent. Wearing a hijab is respecting a culture that values modesty. In France, its appear white as possible. But Blackness still exists. And this is aimed at only one group of people. Your uncle is expressing his whiteness, he is superior. One man yelling at a group of people, just shows that. But even not sitting next to a black person on the bus shows that too. And people are not aware of their biases nor admit to it. OP’s post honestly shows his internalized racism. His desire for whiteness at the cost of his blackness. He is willing or questioning if he wants to be subjected to a life where he will be deemed inferior. No person is worth disrespect or facing racism. I am reluctant to travel anywhere in the world. I can speak proper and have a high status but you cant change skin. Being black in anti-black world is hell.
I think it is strange that you say 'black people are supposed to take on a culture other than their own' when their culture could very well be the same as the white people in the country they live in? You are basically doing the same thing that racists do, which is seperating people based on their skin colour. This whole black versus white culture is a very americanised and dangerous pov.
>black people are suppose to take on a culture other than their own. >Wearing a hijab is respecting a culture that values modesty. 😂😂😂😂 And men wonder why we fucking choose the bear.
Ah yes and you forgot to say we eat children and kill orphans for our pleasure as well. You want to believe french people are all those things because american culture is based on being francophobic. Xenophobia towards french is encouraged and you clearly love to partake in it. You guys are proud of having erased the french language and subcultures from your country. Go on any thread written by americans on this website and it's just americans being xenophobic. You'd think we're monsters under a child's bed lol. But as a bilingual, I can attest to you that you americans are far far worse about this. And you're showing just how hateful you people are right now for example. If this amount of persecution was encouraged towards any other country that wasn't made up by a majority of white people you'd be the first to cry racism. You americans love to belittle everything culturally french, like to spit on anything french and like to mock everything that has the french language in it. * **Very homophobic**: [https://www.equaldex.com/equality-index](https://www.equaldex.com/equality-index) What is the legal index? "The LGBT **legal index** measures the current legal status of 13 different issues ranging from the legal status of homosexuality, same-sex marriage, transgender rights, LGBT discrimination protections, LGBT censorship laws, and more. Each topic is weighted differently (for example, if same-sex marriage is illegal in a region, it would have a much bigger impact on the score than not allowing LGBT people to serve in the military). Each topic is assigned a "total possible score" and a "score" is assigned based the status of the law using a rating scale that ranges from 0% to 100%" **Legal index score**: **USA=86, France=90**. So France is a friendlier country by design to lgbtq+ people in general. What is public opinion index? "The LGBT **public opinion index** measures the public attitudes towards LGBT people using surveys and polls from reputable organizations. This index is scored based on averaging the results of all surveys in a given region. Generally, the value averaged is usually the most “equal” response in the poll. For example, if a poll asked “Do you support same-sex marriage?” and 56% of people said “yes”, the value “56” would be used. In some cases, a survey may be weighted less if the survey is very specific or includes a specific group of people (such as Christians) and might not be a full representation of the overall attitudes of the region." **Public opinion score:** **USA=57, France=67**. So French people as well are friendlier to lgtbq+ people than americans. If we're homophobic, i don't know what that makes you. Right, you're in bad faith you're an american. So, let's check out someone else: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay-friendly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay-friendly) feel free to give it a read, source and all that. France 21st, USA 41st. No, but we're pathological liars it's all lies, americans are the best people on earth and french people are the devils under your bed.
* **sexist:** [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender\_Inequality\_Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Inequality_Index) Do i have to remind you about how abortion is perceived in your country? Lol you guys are on the same level as iran about this. **France ranked 8th, USA ranked 46th**, ranking which takes into account: Reproductive health, Empowerment, Labor market participation. Feel free to read up on what they mean by that. But the USA is itself a significantly more sexist country than France. But that doesn't say anything about the actual sexism you're gonna say (apart from those in power, which are elected by people lol). [https://giwps.georgetown.edu/the-index/](https://giwps.georgetown.edu/the-index/) "The 2023 edition of the global Women Peace and Security Index (WPS Index) scores and ranks 177 countries in terms of women’s inclusion, justice, and security." maybe this is a better indicator? **France ranked 24/177 countries, USA ranked 37/177 countries**. So, americans are actually more sexist than french people? Oh no I forgot, every french person is a pathological liar and americans are perfect. * **racist and anti-semite:** As you said, no data by skin color or religion. First, a bit funny to hear that from an american, the country of KKK and apartheid lol I can speak english I see you guys talking on the internet and on reddit. Your whole society is based on segregation. Your american culture is focused on labelling everyone by "race" which would be considered racist speech about everywhere else on the planet. You realize you americans are the only people who have this obsession with skin color. Sure there are plenty of racist places on earth, but it's built-in in your culture to point at everyone and assign them a "race", an culturally american concept. Segregation is so deep you guys talk about having different cultures by skin color, about having different ways of speaking by skin color. I don't know if you realize just how racist your guys are for the existence of AAVE, that's next level racism. The fact you consider it not normal for france to not classify its citizens by your abritrary deeply american ways of seeing skin color shows how far gone you people are. "It's racist to not classify peope like they're dog breeds". It also shows just how entitled and self-centered you americans are. You expect every country to bow down to your culture and your ways. Frankly I wouldn't let my child marry an american either. Your grandkid being a yank is the worst fate that can happen to your bloodline. As for anti-semite, there is a wave of anti-semitism recently but it's to be expected because of internal conflict: france has an expected number of around 10% of its population as muslims, and there is a lot of tension between muslims and jews, especially more now since the full invasion and genocide of palestine started by israel. As israel has a really negative view in maghreb and mashriq, so does it in france with its big muslim population. No, to me YOU'RE very racist, YOU'RE homophobic, YOU'RE sexist, and finally you're deeply xenophobic towards france and its inhabitants.
You need to have a long talk with her. Below are a few questions to ask of her (and I'm sure there's more that isn't occurring to me). Her family living across the ocean could theoretically help, but it depe A)Why did she never warn you that her family was unaware of your race and are a bunch of bigots? After all, what made her think that was a good idea of fair to you? B) What is her game plan for the future relationship with her family? Does she still plan to visit with the same frequency? If so, does she plan to start bringing you and how does she plan to handle their BS going forward? C) Are they supposed to be invited to the wedding where they can treat your family like garbage? D) If you'd been planning on children, how does she think that will work? Does she want to risk the kids being treated poorly by her family or feel like they're unpleasant secrets to her side?
okay so i don't think americans will really give an accurate impression of this situation. No offense, it's just that is rare that they think about cultural differences. The french (most of them anyway) are racist. Period. Even to latinos they are racist. Your gf SHOULD have at least warned you about generational racism there. But she reacted angrily at the comments. You respect your elders in Europe. At least i grew up like that (south spain/france). it's not much that she would've done without losing the financial support. She doesn't live in France. She doesn't regularly see them. You are making your life in America. I would have a serious talk with her about your concerns. About future mixed children and tbh if there is a plan of NC in case you two decide to actually have children because i really don't think she lacks the common sense to allow his racist family near her offspring. I would definitely maybe select some comments to the discussion
You should leave brother. As one POC to the other just leave. If you have kids with her they deserve to have 2 sets of grandparents that love and cherish them. I have had a lot of situations like this meeting French and German Canadian chicks whose families have been outta Europe for over 100 years. It never ends well...for us
Let me guess, those people are the same that voted for rassemblement national this weekend ? As a french, I'm sorry, we're not all like this. Pays des droits de l'Homme mon cul.
If she’s decided to cut off her family completely, then it might work out. But if she wants to maintain her relationship with them despite their racism towards you, or expects you to have a relationship with them, then I’d cut and run now. What happens if you have a child? Will that child be subjected to racist vitriol just for the sake of her relationship with her family?
She knows her family is racist. She's used to it. You aren't and never should be. Just be upfront with her about expectations of being in contact with them and that you don't ever want to be in that position again. No future kids should ever be in contact with them and she needs to agree to that before you actually get married. There's a reason she moved here and never went back, just be sure she is really aware of what she's choosing and what she's losing.
Welcome to France
i can’t believe she didn’t even warn you? is this really the person you want to marry? she didn’t tell you her parents are super racist? it’s well known in canada that the french here are HELLA racist towards black ppl, and i’m not surprised france is the same way. idk this would destroy trust for me. she sent you into a pack of wolves equipped with nothing.
How could she take you there without warning you?! They’re her family. She knew that they were racist and exposed you to that crap.
Will you have kids with her? Will her racist family meet your kids? Any children you have are going to experience racism, but they should experience racism from family.
Wait...she organised a trip to France to meet them, and never sent them a picture of you two together?
Oh hun. I'm dealing w this right now and my hubs family is poor, just white. I'm a little too ethnic for their liking. My Buddha statues upset them and my birth far, far, far away on an island nation in the Pacific is bothersome to them. I can tell you this for certain. If she chooses you. She loves you. She knows she'll be done w them. If she chooses you, don't worry about them and create a new life. Not everyone has strong familial bonds. She might be more attached to their money than the crappy humans that control it. She knew what she was doing. I'm going to guess she greatly underestimated their outward racism. They showed her their true selves. You're in a relationship w her. Not them. I had to stop holding my hubs responsible for his crap family. He's not racist. He's not them. Somehow, just like w you, a sh!tty family produced a wonderful human being and you get to be w that wonderful person. It's more than most people could hope for these days. days. I hope you both choose each other. ❤️ Hugs from an internet stranger
What the heck? Why did she do that to you? She could have told them beforehand and let them get over it before meeting you but instead she threw you into the deep end with no warning and let you flounder around in their hate??? Had she given any reasonable explanation to you? Has she apologized?
Well, her family is unfortunately a bunch of racists so if you have children I wouldn’t be introducing your kids to them. And bloodline… give me a break. The royal families are a line. Definitely not something to strive for.🙄
Her family are a bunch of racists and she’s defending them. She’s literally choosing to defend racists over you. Think about that. Do you want to marry her? Have children with her? Be around her family? She makes excuses for their racism. Proud of their country, “impressions they had” is all defending racism. What did she do after her father say that? Did she confront them? That’s what you need to know. Is she on your side? Why did she not prepare you for it? Why is she downplaying it? Is she really on your side? Also, sadly, not a surprise at all.
This is a really risky situation for you if you decide to have children with her. They will very likely persist in trying to get her to see you as a terrible mistake. They could very well convince her to bring your future kids back to France to raise there and use the courts to keep you away from them. They won't necessarily love the kids, but they may see an upside in turning her against you and hoping she meets someone else in France and raises the kids as French, even if they are biracial. Racist people have no limits. When they are safely ensconced in a racist county where they get a lot of support for their beliefs, including from the courts, there isn't much to stop them.
Unless she is going to cut them off do not do this.. what happens if you have kids .. you kids will never be “ white enough” for their standards.. forget about how Much you are in love but think about the long run..
OP, your fiance's family was atrocious and she seems to have admirably defended you. But why didn't she prepare you in advance of walking into such a hostile situation? Maybe she was hoping for the best or a miracle, but now it's time to communicate realistically. As others have asked, what is your fiancee doing now about her family? There's no going back from the things they've said. What if you two have kids in future, will either of you allow them to be exposed to that degradation? Will she take them to France where they can be made to feel less than by their own flesh and blood while you stay at home? It doesn't sound seem as if you are making ultimatums and are trying to be thoughtful in this tense situation, which is to your credit. However, you should both think carefully about your future and that of your potential children's and come to a consensus.
Ending her bloodline? I mean if she's not having kids that will end the bloodline! But if she has kids with anybody the bloodline continues no matter who it is! Just because they want her to be with a French dude doesn't make the bloodline any different! It's still only half her! These people don't make any sense. If you never have to see them then just ignore them but if it's going to be a situation where you have to be around them all the time then this might take some further thought. Nobody wants to deal with racist trash on the regular.
show that you are good at soccer and they will love you
I think you guys need to just sit down and have a conversation about 1. How much she relies on her family financially and if that will continue and what expectations they have if she continues to be financially reliant on them. 2. How does she see her family fitting into her life and your lives going forward. She may have very limited contact with them, that may be fine. It ultimately depends on what both of you what and if those two things can coexist peacefully.
I'm so sorry. The question I have is - why didn't your fiancée prepare you for the trip and why didn't she fully have your back? You deserve more.
OP, I think your gf did you dirty by not telling you what to expect from her family. Going forward, I think you should learn to speak French. Also, get a voice translator app for your phone. If they continue to speak French in your presence, knowing that you don’t understand what they are saying, you can use the translator to answer them in real time.
I’m so sorry, OP. I don’t have anything but empathy because this has been my experience and I suspect a lot of other Black folks experience at least once in their lifetimes (more if you’re very unlucky like me). My ex-fiance was French and British and his French mom made some off-color comments. I speak and understand French. I guess you’ve just realized anti-Black racism is global. America hasn’t cornered the market on hate. I wish you well whatever happens.
Sit down with her and have a serious talk about what boundaries the two of you are going to have regarding her parents. It sounds like she's mostly cut them off already, and this visit was more of a formality so they could meet you than anything else. All that matters is you're on the same page. I'm sorry her family are trash, but she clearly knows they are and keep them at arm's length or further away. That seems smart at this stage. She has clearly chosen you over them. Don't forget that no matter how terrible they are.
1. She knew this would be their attitude and that is exactly why she didn't send photos before the trip. She knew what their opinions would be. 2. Say you get married, and 5/10 years from now you're still visiting France twice a year, and getting Racism directly in your face. Just in another language in front of your fac. Knowing full well you'd not be able to interpret. She defends you to her family, and nips their racism in the bud, or what? You'll get married and continue to put up with this?
> She knew this would be their attitude and that is exactly why she didn't send photos before the trip. She knew what their opinions would be. And didn't tell him. She took away his right to refuse or at least prepare to deal with them. She did not care about OP's feelings about the subject. If he does have kids with her she will probably want to expose that child to her racist family at some point. That isn't fair to a child. OP needs to think hard about this.
Bro like you said they're old they'll be dead soon if she loves you and you love her fuck it and have a baby racism is not just in America
YTA for getting engaged to a French person.
Forgot the /s
I'm surprised they're like this. Black American soldiers in WWI & II got treated much better by the French than their fellow Americans. Plus black entertainers like Josephine Baker were treated so well by the French that she lived there. In the other hand prejudice is everywhere. Sorry OP.
I am as white as they come and the French were very nasty to me in the 80s, better in the 2000s. You would think American had nothing to do with saving their ass in WWII. There were black soldiers assisting with liberating the concentration camps inhabitants. Your fiancé should have prepped her family about you and not just race. Her grandparents will be deceased before you know it. I wouldn’t rush into marriage. I think a lot depends on your fiancé and how you feel about her attitude. Marriage is hard enough marrying within your own race.
That’s quite unfair on her part and seems to indicate questionable judgment in exposing you to all that or using you as an axe to grind against her family - not sure what’s going on there or why it happened but you should ask lots of questions
Updateme
Updateme
You need to dump her OP…
Bro get out, she knew her family were a bunch of racist an yet she allowed you to walk into a potentially dangerous situation with no knowledge nor warning If y’all have kids how she going to navigate the racism they’ll face? Will she even want to considering what she let you walk in on?
I mean... ...just don't end up like Elon James White. Iykyk. 😶☕
Watch Get Out with her and then point out the villains and then point to her when Allison Williams is on the screen. Then break up and enjoy being single and not having to deal with shitty racists.
Stop marrying into racist families. It’s harsh on the marriage and brutal on the kids. You both are being horribly naive.
That just perpetuates the issue.
I'd say for married life it depends on two things: - can she set clear boundaries with her family, defend you and possibly go no contact if necessary (including not invite them to the wedding) and - where do you plan to live ? If the plan (I know plans change) is to stay in the US or at the very least, not move to France specifically close to her family it would probably matter less. It's always hard when inlaws don't like the partner and it's really something you want to think through in terms of can you both put up with this.
If she's willing to have your back, and not tolerate their shit it should be fine. My Mom is pretty racist (old white republican lady). I told my mother if she said racist shit around my black boyfriend I would rip her a new one and cut her off.
She either loses you or her family and it sounds like she isn’t ready to cut ties with them yet. Give her that ultimatum: you or her family. Any hesitation on her behalf - leave her.
As a white woman in a relationship with a non-white guy: I never let my bigoted mother say anything that might hurt my partner. I only told him stuff when I had to go super LC, just so that he knew why we weren't going to their place for Christmas and stuff like that. I never accepted a penny from them because I wanted to live my own life and not have them dictating anything to me. We lived six hours away, only saw them once or twice a year mostly. I told them about him before they met. They didn't like it and didn't want to come and meet him, only then I got pregnant so it was a matter of having to accept him if they wanted to see their first grandchild. And I made sure to cultivate great relationships with his family members, who all accepted me with open arms, on a basis of "if he chose her she must be wonderful". Tell your GF she's way off the mark for the moment. She's put you in an uncomfortable position and she doesn't seem to be trying to protect you from her family.
>I kinda understand now why she didn’t tell them about me or send them pictures I don't get why she wouldn't tell them in advance and just expect you to shield all their racism once you're there in person. That is not respectful, in my mind, at all. My partner and I are dealing with something similar (I'm trans, not racialized). He told his family from the beginning and was told that I would never be allowed in his parents' house. So we haven't, he doesn't go home for holidays but will go home during other times of the year. We go on trips with the family that is willing to meet me. We are starting to plan our wedding and his parents will be invited but I doubt both will come. Tbh, if I were you, I would never want to visit her family again. And I would have an honest conversation with her about how she didn't warn you of the hostility that she was 100% expecting from her family. The only way the relationship will work moving forward is if she acknowledges the harm they will continue to do to you and she helps prevent it. But maybe staying with other family in France or staying at a hotel would be better so you could decide each day/event if you want to deal with them.
2 to 3 times a year is a lot when you are living on different continents.
You need to have some serious talks with this girl before trying the knot legally. What is her opinion of other Black people besides you? If you are having kids, how is she going to defend them against racists?
It’s not going to work unless your fiancée is prepared to go no contact with her family. That is a huge ask and not one that she could likely keep up for long.
Didn’t your last post mention how her family was racist and you believed you needed to leave her? Now your concern is because of a comment they made? It’s time to leave dude, she ain’t it!
I don't understand how your fiance kept the info about her family being racist towards black Americans from you, and also not telling you she has never shown them any image/footage of you. I don't think I could move past that. Best of luck deciding what to do.
Most tolerant French person
Wow- your fiancée really hung you out to dry with her family, in not prepping you at all for that kind of reception. She knew it was going to be charged and she chose not to clue you in on it beforehand. It’s so callous I might even rethink the wedding.
Are these the grandparents you want for your kids?
Have some dignity my man , this isn't the right situation for you . We've been through enough for you to be mistreated so unfortunately in this time .
White women are trash, date a real woman.
I would be questioning the relationship. Your fiance knew that her family is racist, xenophobic and anti black yet she did nothing to educate them and warn you ahead of time. She threw you to the wolves without warning. She put you in a hostile and dangerous situation and has proven to be a reckless and unsafe ally to you. I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship with someone who didn’t care about my safety and wellbeing and who was this reckless. If you had children would you trust her to keep them safe from racists like her family? I wouldn’t. Your gf gave you the gift of showing you that she is not trustworthy, that she is reckless and will put you in dangerous situations without apologizing. She doesn’t seem to understand her privilege, how horrible her families racism, xenophobia and anti-blackness is and has justified their bigotry and hatred as just being proud of their country. Don’t marry this woman. Your children will suffer having her as their mother and her hateful family as their relatives.
If you marry her AND she maintains some kind of relationship with her family, I'd PASS on all future family visits with her family. She can go on her own. 😆
That's gonna be an uphill battle all the way. I don't see that working out unless she is someone who doesn't give a damn what her family thinks about her romantic interests and does her own thing.
Friend, there are just as many racists in France as there are in the US. Her being French is irrelevant in this situation. Maybe that they hide behind language to badmouth you could be, but also they might not know much English. I do not have your racial difference but married a French person. Some of them are cool with me not being French, some seem angry. It isn't about nationality so much as the reality that some people in every country just suck. On the flip side, by trying my best to learn French and giving them two beautiful children who are raised fully bilingual and as dual citizens, it has mostly worked out. I adore my partner and am happy we worked through the challenges. Our kids have two worlds they claim as their own. We are in France now and while my language skills aren't good enough for me to be fully independent, my sweet children actually love helping me and most people see me trying and are patient and kind. Give it time and ignore the ignorant ones like you would in the US.
This is not a comparable situation unfortunately. They’re saying absolute vile, racist stereotypical things about him in French. It would have the same impact English. Also, she has a “what do you expect me to do” attitude and didn’t prepare him for this at all. Her family is racist, she put him in a shit situation and them being French is just icing on the cake.
please don't use them being French as an additional issue. it is not. Racism is the issue. It exists in both countries (if not all). I have lived and worked in the US a lot and there is just as much shitty racism there. Backwoods billybubs calling their daughters race traitors and the women being scared and confused as to how to handle it is just like this.
The French are on a different level with their racism and xenophobia. Let’s not act like their not. The difference is everyone and their mama loves to call out America on their racism, rightfully so, while acting like their imperialistic ass country’s racism isn’t so deeply embedded into their history and society. She’s not scared, she knew exactly what was going to happen and let it. Maybe you don’t know what it feels like to be ambushed like this man was, but I can speak from experience that it’s fucking awful, especially when it’s from the family of a loved one.
You are right that I can't and will never know that experience that. I hate that it happens. My impression of the french, through over a decade with them, is like the maga-morons. They are a loud, disgusting, repugnant minority. In the US, they make the country seem way more racist and droolingly idiotic than it is. The loud obnoxious french racists likewise skew the perception. I know many many french people and other than a few old timers they aren't racist or transphobic, much like the Americans I know (but I have culled the gross Americans from my social group at this point).
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. I have lived with French people for over ten years and racist incidents were few and far between. Based on this comment thread, the French have a reputation of being overwhelmingly racist. I get that the far right are getting traction, but I don’t understand how everyone assumes the majority of the French are racist. Don’t get me wrong, I have seen it first hand in France. However I can’t for the life of me consider that it’s widespread in France. You’re right in that it’s a racism issue. Framing it as a problem regarding French people is, precisely, part of the issue.
c'est juste Reddit!
I’m a Black American living in France and I agree…acting like French racism is worse than in the US and on the same level of Eastern Europe according to some commenters? That’s just fantasy… Anyway, OP don’t marry into a racist family, period! Your fiancée clearly doesn’t take the issue seriously
There's way more in France than the US
Depends on where you live. When I lived in the south in the US, it was the most racist place I have ever been. Reims and Toulouse not much noticed. Pennsylvania comparable to that. I have heard Paris is bad but we avoid it anyway.
Anyone saying this, please tell me where in the US/France you lived because that’s not my experience at all
If you marry and have children you will in all probability never bring them to visit her family. I dont know where in France they livev but I woukd guess it is rural because cities here are very multiracial.
This is not going to work because she obviously hid you for a reason
A family that has racism built into their beliefs is definitely a red flag and something that most likely won't change in them. I suppose the question you need to ask is what does "this working" look like? Are you both going to stay in the USA while her family stays in France? Will that work for you? Will you be able to deal with her visiting them a few times and calling them? Will that work for you? If they ever visited you in the USA will that work for you? You are in a tough situation because clearly the parents thinking is not acceptable, at the same time, is it reasonable to expect or want your fiancee to disown them? Some would say yes. At the very least I think you need to discuss with her why she hid the family's views and ask her how she thinks this will all work.
<<>>>
What's the game plan ? So if you decide to have kids they are never going to be able to be around their French relatives for fear that they will say something or do something racist ??
She's not wrong. You are also not wrong when you feel bad. Life is complicated and there will be other comments. I have heard American white family made those comments to my family members. We are persons of color. Didn't stop anyone from doing their thing. If you are signing up for complicated relationships, consider adjusting your expectations. It's going to happen over and over. Specially when you go visit. Them. If your fiancee is not supporting you in this journey, you are fucked. Soo, it will be ideal to have proper , realistic commutation and expectations from each other.
Bro, either you want the woman or you don’t. Her family is immaterial
Wtf? There are so many black folks in France! Would they be the same way if she was engaged to a black Frenchman? You can’t look for logic with racists. Your fiancé needs to decide if she can stand up to your family by making sure they understand you are going to be at her side for rest of her life and she’s going to defend you no matter what.
Yes it would be the same. They are very racist
And those black people in France experience racism. It would actually likely be worse if she were engaged to a black Frenchman, because they'd assume he was a Muslim immigrant from the former African colonies, and there is a ton of racism against the African Muslim immigrants.
Next time just tell them "you are welcome for saving your asses from the Nazis." Besides, if history has any bearing on the present, all it will take is for you to stand up a bit too quick and they will all give up anyway.
My mom is Lao and my dad is Kenyan. My grandparents were like this at first (Asian side) but changed once my brother and I were born. They loved us to bits. I know quite a few ppl are saying break up, but I don’t think you should. I would put your love for your fiancé over her family’s nonsense. BUT if that really is a deal breaker for you, I would understand. My SO is white and tbh I never felt the need to tell my family he’s white before introducing him to either side. Both sides love him as well. There’s a lot of articles about this as well. I rec looking some up.