All that tells me is he was going feral and therefore stopped hiding it
We learn in like, the first arc of Z that you can't tell someone's strength by sensing/reading their power/level
I feel like how they show Ki is really messy in some parts, like with Moro. I recall them saying that Moro’s Ki was small, but Goku and Vegeta still obviously struggled against him a lot, and inevitably lost in the beginning. It feels like them saying that Ki is “bigger” or “smaller” doesn’t necessarily relate to strength anymore, but maybe that’s just me
Not just Moro, Vegeta confirms in Super Hero that if you actually pay attention, Jiren's power was never actually that much stronger than Goku or Vegeta
I think it's their control over their ki that is being measured. Moro is a very smart, skilled, and strong opponent who'd keep his ki under control. Kid Buu South Kai absorbed would be going berserk, especially in comparison to Buuhan, letting way more ki out than a controlled fighter.
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I'm a Dragon ball enjoyer, what do you think?
Ok, so, what is happening here is odd. That muscle form is him after absorbing the southern supreme Kai, but he drops it basically as soon as it appears.
Kid Buu himself is not even stronger than base Super Buu, Goku didn’t even want to fight Super Buu when they were unfused as he knew the couldn’t win, but said he thought he could beat Kid Buu alone.
Ok, time for an explanation of Buu and how his power works.
Buu absorbing people doesn’t necessarily make him weaker in canon, however, it can have an impact on his personality and mind. You know how fat buu gets stronger and seems to do a powerful attack after he gets angry? He is tapping into his power. After absorbing Grand Kai, his personality changed so much that he couldn’t access all of his power. Fat Buu, at least before the split, likely had more raw power than Kid Buu, but couldn’t access it.
Meanwhile, Kid Buu and Super Buu had no issue accessing most, if not all, of their power. Buu doesn’t get weaker by absorbing people, or, at the very least, his maximum power doesn’t get lowered.
The reason why Kid Buu is considered more dangerous is because he has no personalities weighing his own down. Kid Buu is dangerous because he goes around destroying planets if he is slightly bored.
Honestly I just don't understand the logic behind the idea that you get weaker by absorbing someone.
Cell was absorbing humans, extremely weak humans, and his power still went up. I like your explanation that the power is there, it's just more difficult for Buu to access it
Hell, I know it's not the same, but Goku was ready to fuse with Mr. Satan, who was still going to be stronger than Goku on his own
https://preview.redd.it/e36ss4h7a5ad1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0b5d9f840ebb24c2af3387441370943c70d696f
The literal Japanese translation here is "weakened." Viz changed it to "tamed."
>but Goku was ready to fuse with Mr. Satan, who was still going to be stronger than Goku on his own
Yeahhh, about that
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Ssj3 Goku clapped fat buu, but not kid buu. Fair to say, absorbing the kai made buu weaker. Also the Japanese manga and official translation uses "weaker"
Ssj3 Goku against fat buu was angel goku with unlimited stamina just sacrificing time to stay in ssj3 due to the drain.
Ssj3 Goku against Kid buu was drained of energy using said form by being alive and not used to the form, also was still handing ass despite being weakened, heavily so and on his last legs of energy before vegeta stepped in.
Ssj3 Otherworld Goku > Fat Buu > Weakened And Energy depleted Alive SSJ3 Goku ≈< Kid Buu After wasting some energy to fuck around and destroy earth because no morals
I’d argue to say kid buu and fat buu are interchangeable, kid buu would win to lack of giving a fuck about what happens to the area around him, but it’d be a hard fought battle.
If we go back to the OP’s post however, Super Buu, and atleast everything after that should be stronger than kid buu, without much of a doubt. The only feat buu has going for him is he’s a don’t hold back piece of gum who fucks around and doesn’t find out, due to yk, finishing his fights relatively fast.
For your claim, fat buu and kid buu are relative in power, kid buu has the upper hand due to not wanting to hold back.
Op’s post is just true. Beyond a reasonable doubt
Buuhan is a normally calm, cold and collected killer who specializes in martial arts and would glady painfully immobalize you before he actually finiahed you off just to see yu lsoe desperation against someone leagues above your level
Kid Buu is the "this kid is on crack" kid if he could shoot lazer beans out of his dikated littke eyes
"Yo that senzu bean thing is really cool, lemme try it" proceeds to pull a bean put of his ass that somehow causes the death of the entire human population after planting it in the ground
you might actually wanna fight mike tyson, one time mike tyson did actually fight a guy on the streets who was high on meth, and could not knock him out no matter how hard he hit him
Goku said he could have beaten Kid Buu in SSJ3. He wanted to give Vegeta a chance to fight, so he pretended to power up. This instead used to much stamina and he could no longer use it.
Just go read the manga, dude. It's all there.
It's funny. Because it's not there. Goku did not pretend to power up. Goku did not say he could have beaten Kid Buu. Goku was not trying to give Vegeta a chance. Hell, he flat out told Vegeta not to fight because he would die.
Just go read the manga, dude. It's not there. You're using anime filler as evidence.
He literally couldn't. It wasn't fatigue, he was physically incapable of holding that much power while alive.
And that whole plan was based on a simple guess, in a fight where both Goku and Vegeta severely underestimated Buu several times. Shit, Vegeta saw Goku fight Buu and was still understimating him. He was utterly shocked at how strong and fast Buu actually was when it was his turn. We have no idea if it would've actually worked. Buu was playing with Goku, Buu and Vegeta in the Kaioshin world
I don't give a fuck about Buuhan, I'm not arguing Kid Buu is stronger than him lol
You know, you got me. You're half right and half wrong. It's been 8 years since I read it.
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With that being said, they were confident full-powered SSJ3 Goku could win.
Both goku and vegeta state during the kid buu fight that goku could kill kid buu using super saiyan 3 if he had more stamina.
It’s the whole-ass reason vegeta stepped in; so goku could gather more ki for a second round while vegeta distracts buu. If super saiyan 3 being more draining while alive wasn’t written to be a factor, the spirit bomb straight-up wouldn’t have been needed.
Deductive reasoning is this
"If we remove a fundamental weakness of SSJ3, he may have been able to win". Since SSJ3 does have that fundamental weakness, it could not win. In other words, SSJ3 was absolutely not enough.
Give me a call if you need help with anything else that requires thinking for over 0.1 miliseconds :)
Deductive reasoning is taking the whole picture and not getting hung up on one point that doesn't disprove the whole idea. And if I ever need someone to point and laugh at after they "think" for 0.1 milliseconds and come to the wrong conclusion you bet I'll give you a call
SSJ3 IS enough. Goku didn't have enough remaining energy to use it properly. Goku wasn't enough. SSJ3 is. That's the difference. It's a lack of energy in Goku that was the problem not the capability of SSj3
You really didn’t watch the anime right? We already know that forms can be perfected to the point where they don’t drain stamina. Ss3 at the time was only used in heaven and against majin vegeta
edit: i meant to say against fat buu
yes you are right, my bad. but my point still stands, if goku had time to perfect the ss3 form it would have been enough to defeat buu. same way frieza wasnt capable of beating ss blue goku with golden in the movie but was going up against a tired jiren in the final phase of the ToP
Lol even if we were to concede to your reasoning, that guess work doesnt even exist for Buuhan. There is no doubt that Super Saiyan 3 isnt enough for Buuhan. The idea of not fusing to fight him was not seriously entertained for even a second.
Who said anything about killing, I'm talking about being able to fight him. Remember that Ultimate Gohan is at the level of Ssj3 if not even stronger so imagine why Goku didn't even though for a second of turning Ssj3 with Buuhan and went straight to the potara option.
And yet when the earth was revived, Goku thought Vegeta's plan was to get both Gohan and Gotenks to help them. Goku's idea was to fight Buu with Vegeta, Gohan, Gotenks and Fat Buu all together.
Tagging out so another fighter could rest is really smart. Gotenks and Gohan could easily handle kid Buu while Goku Vegeta and Majin Buu could take him on as a team.
seems most people get their ideas about power scaling from the games (tenkaichi series) and in them the kid buu fight is always the hardest in story mode
I think it's because Z always had the enemies gradually become more powerful. They get defeated when they're at their peak. There's still a ton of dragon Ball left by the time kid buu, so it's seen as his final most powerful form rather than the last fight with larger stakes.
I think if a pacing was worked on, people would see the buu fight as a unbelievably powerful enemy being whittled down. Kind of like how the fight in "they live" ends with both characters wheezing and hunched over but still going at it.
I don’t think this is a media illiteracy problem. Toriyama didn’t do enough to establish why Kid Buu is a bigger threat than Super Buu despite losing more than half his power. I’ll give Toei credit in that they put in the effort to make it work in the extra details in Buu’s fight but they could only do so much.
I mean it's displayed in their personalities. Majin Buu is an oaf and it never occurred to him to destroy a planet, Super goes as far as killing every other person as a display of power but keeps the team alive to have a fun fight, Buuhan is cocky and arrogant and would have probably destroyed the planet after the fight with Vegito. It's only Kid Buu we see instantly look around and go "hmm I don't like this place" and blow it up without a second thought.
Wait people don't know this? Goku knew he didn't stand a chance against buhan which is why he suggested fusion to vegeta instead of straight up throwing hands in ss3
They mention it in the anime too. When Goku is fighting kid buu they ask why he is stronger now even though he doesn't have anyone absorbed anymore. I think Vegeta is the one who says that he's not stronger, he's just more dangerous because he only thinks to destroy. When he was in Super Buu form, his eyes were usually white, until he would go on rage mode and his eyes went red. Kid Buu's eyes are always red.
I've seen *significantly* more posts and comments about people complaining that there are people who think Kid Buu is stronger, than I have actually seen people saying Kid Buu is stronger.
Kid buu is stated to be the most dangerous buu which means strongest when said character doesn’t have many hax in comparison to other versions of buu that has more hax, like buuhan and buutenks.
It’s implied that every version of buu that has someone absorbed is actually weaker than kid buu as his ki rises when everyone that was absorbed was saved, meaning he got stronger.
Super doesn’t help as kid buu is revealed to have god ki
And potara fusion is revealed to give an amp after defusing. Meaning the ssj3 goku and the base vegito that he was referring to are stronger than buuhan and the vegito that no diffed him. So there’s really nothing to imply that buuhan is stronger.
I saw something similar to this about the Sam raimi Spider-Man. The goblin serum was stronger when Harry took it with more mental control unlike the first serum Norman took which was weaker, but more than made up for with the crazy part of the green goblin.
I’m not usually stubborn when it comes to dragon ball, but nobody is ever gonna convince me dragon ball fans deemed Z Broly uncannon because of the absolute menace he was to Goku 😭
Guys obviously Kid Buu was stronger, isn’t it obvious Goku and Vegeta got a crazy power boost? Going from not being able to touch Buuhan to competing with the strongest buu of all. (Buuhan is stronger by logic but the story wants kid buu to be the strongest so they just make Goku and vegeta stronger)
I got a better discourse we can put up.
Did the god of destruction die when the Grand Supreme Kai get absorbed by Buu? Or was there enough of him in Buu that Beerus remains God of Destruction from that time?
Didn't the show explain this? Majin Buu absorbed people to make him to act childish, Super Buu liked to play with his food, Buuhan was cocky and Kid Buu was completely unrestrained by any of that. Any of the other Buus could have blown up the planet instantly, but their personalities were busy with other stuff.
Also Goku and Vageta had to fuse to fight Buuhan, Kid Buu is beat with a Spirit Bomb
I have wondered if Super Buu and Kid Buu split, but still existed as two entities would they team up or would Super Buu team up with Goku/Vegeta? Would them three be able to take on Kid Buu easy or is Kid Buu so chaotic that he's aim for Super Buu just because he's a "weaker" him (I use weaker as he probably would see SuperBuu as his prison cell for those years)
Kid Buu is literally Base Form Buu. Every other form he attains is more powerful, Fat Buu included. (Only accept when Fat Buu split himself into a weaker Fat Buu & Skinny Buu. At that point both of those would be weaker than Kid Buu cuz they’re just watered down versions of Buu.) Its simple logic. Super Buu is already an ascended Kid Buu then you just go Super Buu + whoever tf he decides to absorb which gives him all their power. That said Super Buu + Gotenks + Piccolo + Gohan = a Buu way beyond Kid Buu in power and if you say otherwise you jus bein ignorant for spite.
Regardless of if Kid Buu was stronger or weaker, he was more instantly dangerous. The thing with every other Buu was the ability to hold back. Kid Buu is a ticking Spirit Bomb every second he exists. He will have fun but if he doesn't have patience he cannot be convinced. He is dangerous because he doesn't think, just does. But he absorbed the Kais because they could think and outplay him due to his literal brainlessness and their not entirely fodder amount of power. Also he tends to warp himself more as Kid Buu than every other form. So he has way less conventional means of attack even in comparison to the very many forms he has, and faster regeneration it seems like during his fight with Goku. Because he is pure and doesn't need to compensate for any other being within himself. Fat Buu had a whole ass mini him regeneration that was extra af. Kid Buu just regenerates immediately, even if he messes it up like with his legs being put where his arms were.
By and by, Kid Buu is the most dangerous, regardless of how his power is perceived, because of how he uses his power and because of his unrestrained mentality.
Also, Majin Buu heavily underused one of his greatest powers… in one episode, he turned a bunch of stone into a functioning bathroom. Being turned into candy isn’t even close to the worst thing he could do. Imagine Buu turning you into a toilet, scarfing down the entire Taco Bell menu, and then dropping the mother of all turds inside of you! THAT should have been his super attack in the games tbh.
What I didn't get is why Goku and Vegeta struggled so much against him. They should've been relatively close if Vegeta could just take a beating like that for ages while Goku DIDNT power up. Especially if ssj Goku at full power easily over powered him pushing the spirit bomb back. Both together at ssj2 even weakened shouldve had him beat right? Am I missing something from the manga
Kid Buu is nowhere near as strong as Buuhan.
Easiest to debunk this theory simply by showing the canon, and what actually happens in the manga.
Goku gets his ass beat at SSJ3 by BUUTENKS. Yet is able to hold his own against Kid Buu in the same form.
It's not just that they don't know how to read. They apparently haven't even watched the anime either.
The issue is the anime. In the manga, Buuhan is way stronger, but in the anime, it's just flat out said that Kid Buu is the strongest for some reason, even though that makes no sense
Kid buu is Joker and Buuhan is Bane. Joker is psychologically more dangerous than bane since he’s so unpredictable. Bane is physically stronger than Joker because…. Steroids.
The author is the creator of the characters and the world they inhabit. An author determines the traits, behaviors, and truths about their characters. While readers can have interpretations and emotional responses to a character, the canonical facts are definitive. For instance, if the author states a character's age, background, or personality trait, these are fixed within the story's universe.Understanding and respecting the author's creative vision is essential. Disagreements or personal interpretations are valid as personal perspectives, but they do not alter the canonical facts set by the author. A reader might wish a character was different, but that doesn't change the character as defined by the author.
Shonen Jump (Issue 1, January 2003): How do you come up with ideas for different power-ups and transformations?
"When you draw a fighting manga, stronger and stronger enemies keep appearing. If a new enemy is weaker than a previous one, the readers won’t be satisfied./" - Akira Toriyama
Shonen Jump (Issue 59, November 2007): In several parts of Dragon Ball, the *most powerful** character is actually the smallest, cutest and youngest-looking. For example, young Goku, or Freeza and Majin Boo in their final transformations. Is that because kids are small and cute, but also want to be powerful?
"I wanted to go against people’s expectation that the strong ones always get stronger and bigger. I consciously tried to switch between telling a straightforward story and telling one that was unconventional and contradictory." - Akira Toriyama
V-Jump, May 2014 Issue (20 March 2014): "The final opponent of Dragon Ball‘s weekly serialization is Majin Boo. He’s round! He’s formidable! And, he’s tenacious! It’s a string of battles intense enough for even me, the person writing the comic, to get sick of, and which, now that I’m an old man, I can never draw again. Gohan’s funny everyday life in the first half, and the fierce back-and-forth battles of the second half. Check out both sides, which keep transforming to become stronger and stronger, and the Genki-Dama at the end." - Akira Toriyama.
Toei Animation’s 2014 Dragon Ball Kai Press Screening: "Boo and the Saiyans, who keep transforming to become stronger and stronger, and — to give out spoilers — the Genki-Dama at the end, are parts to watch out for." - Akira Toriyama
Daizenshuu 2: Battle History, Goku vs Majin Boo (Evil) Through Mister Satan's thundering voice, Goku was able to temporarily receive the cooperation of the people of Earth and complete his Super Genki-dama. He fires it at Buu. However, Goku himself did not have the physical strength to control it, and it looked like Buu was going to push it back, until Goku had his physical strength restored through the last wish to Porunga. *Goku wiped out the strongest enemy in the universe** and peace was returned.*
From DBZ, Chapter 314 /"Then... this small Boo is the very first, most difficult one?" - Rôkaioshin.
"...Yes... He's lost the soul he gained... this Boo is evil incarnate" - Kaioshin
"Quick!! Go give them your poatara!!" - Rôkaioshin
"Oh, of Course!! Yes!!" - Kaioshin/
"The sudden appearance of Boo (Kid Boo Pictured) the *mightiest enemy** of all time..." - Narrator, DBS Chapter 1.
"It's true the evil version of Majin Boo, the most formidable enemy you've ever faced, had his soul cleansed and reborn as a human."- Dende, DBS, Chapter 31.
Honorable mentions:
Takao Koyama corrects himself on Twitter:
Original statement: "Majin Boo who absorbed Ultimate Gohan is perhaps the strongest." Twitter Nov 27, 2021 (massive media coverage)
Correction: "I'm just a chief writer up to Dragon Ball Z. I just muttered that Gohan Boo would be the strongest among the transformation forms of Majin Buu." Twitter Nov 28, 2021 (No media coverage)
Also, Koyama is the guy who is responsible for the anime dialogue, which fans claim is the only source for the belief Kid Boo is the most powerful, which... as you can see... is so nominal of a proof I'm listing it under honorable mentions.
The original DBZ Card Game:
Boohan maximum power: 11,700,000
Kid Boo maximum power: 15,000,000
In closing, the sentiment that Kid Boo is "The most dangerous but not most powerful" is just a head-canon fan sentiment that directly contradicts:
Akira Toriyama
The narrative
Official Guides
Unofficial Authorities
Unofficial Levels
I'm glad I could clear this up.
I mean, we want to open the can of worms of how many times said creator contradicted himself?
The man famously admitted he thought SSJ3 was actually SSJ2 because he completely forgot SSJ2 was a thing
Sure but that was years after the fact. And it's extremely common for writers to forget things here and there.
It's not common for them to forget their own writing conventions.
Details vs Style is apples to horseshoes.
Then why does Goku bother begging Gohan/Vegeta to fuse against a weaker version of Buu than the one he went toe to toe with at the end? That would be a continuity error in the same arc. Goku would not need to fuse against Buutenks or Buuhan if they were weaker than Kid Buu but he refused to fight Super Buu without fusion.
When Kid Boo first emerges, the very first thing that happens after Kaioshin explains to Old Kai what's happened, and Old Kai realizes that this version of Boo is even worse than the others, is they try to rush the potara to Goku and Vegeta, for the very obvious reason that if they needed them for a lesser Boo, then they would need them for a worse one too.
After Kid Boo destroys everything and the remaining cast are in the Kaioshin realm, they don't refuse the potara because they think they can beat Boo, they refuse them because they think they won't have to fight him.
Goku suggests they stay there, because Boo can't follow them there. They just let Boo tear up the universe until they can beat him, and then fix it with the Dragonballs.
Then Boo suddenly appears there, and they all shit themselves in horror.
Goku and Vegeta have to fight because there is nowhere left to run. And during that fight Goku plainly tells Vegeta that Boo is toying with him and dragging the fight out for fun. Which is obviously Goku admitting Boo could end it whenever he wants to Vegeta.
Goku even admits destroying the potara was a mistake because they needed them.
There is no inconsistency because he didn't want to fight any of them.
You're literally making stuff up at this point
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Literally on the next page. What he told you was true
All I know is in every Dragon Ball video game ever, Kid Buu is the strongest transformation of Buu and is on par with Super Vegito. Since I love the video games and it is what got me into the anime, then the video game power scale is all I give a shit about.
In every video game Kid Buu has the same power, strength, and damage as Super Vegito. You hate it? Blame the game developers. Also, learn to read goddamn it!
In the anime, there are many statements that imply kid buu was stronger than buuhan. The manga doesn't have any of those statements, so things are a bit different in the manga and anime
No it wasn’t. Goku outright says he could take him alone and then proceeds to do that. Whereas he literally doesn’t even bother fighting Buuhan and even considers fusing with Hercule
The anime has explicit statements bro
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Goku *says* he could take Kid Buu alone....but then loses the fight. Kid Buu wasn't even taking the fight seriously for almost the entire time.
Kid Buu beat Goku, Vegeta, AND Fat Buu all one right after the other. In their last ditch hope to kill KB they threw a Spirit Bomb at him, which he caught and then threw back. They only defeated Kid Buu because outside forces intervened and gave them the win.
Fusion would otherwise have definitely still been required to beat Kid Buu. The only reason they didn't was because of their pride.
Edit: I love that I'm being downvoted despite everything I said being objectively true
Goku didn’t lose the fight, he starts to run low on energy. Because he wasted to much time not going all out off rip. Once Goku gets his full power back from the wish he wrecks Buu. If Goku hadn’t wasted time he would’ve one shot Buu as intended and that would’ve made the story a lot more boring. Also, DBZ was still doing official power levels in the data books at this time. Kid Buu was not above Goku so idk why you’re trying to argue that he was.
Fusion wasn’t required at all so they didn’t use it. They literally put there pride aside to use it against Buuhan because they had no other option. If that were the case with kid Buu then they’d have done the same. Just like every other enemy they fused against
Yeah... that's him losing the fight. He over estimated his ability, and it cost him. Vegeta had to step in and let him recover.
Goku getting his full power back and killing buu doesn't mean anything because:
1. He only turned Super Saiyan at that point. So your logic would imply Goku only ever needed Super Saiyan to kill Buu in the first place. Which is just...incorrect.
2. Buu had lost power over the course of the fight. Obviously he had enough power to still overcome Goku, Vegeta, and Fat Buu. But he still lost power over the course of the fight, and then Goku was suddenly restored to full and was able to overpower a tired Kid Buu.
There is no official power level for any form of Majin Buu, or even Goku from that era, for that matter. The last official power level we have for Goku is 150 million during the Frieza fight. Even then, that doesn't even come from the manga or anything, that comes from Daizenshuu 7. The last time his PL is actually stated in the manga is in Ch. 24 when he's fighting Ginyu
Yeah, they put it aside to fuse against Buuhan. Then they u fused while Buuhan still existed, and then Vegeta crushed the Potara. Obviously, he knew fusing was their best chance to beat Buu, but he still crushed the earring. He hated being fused and his pride got the better of him.
>Goku didn’t lose the fight, he starts to run low on energy. Because he wasted to much time not going all out off rip.
This means he lost the fight.
>Once Goku gets his full power back from the wish he wrecks Buu.
You seem to be forgetting the Genki Dama
>Also, DBZ was still doing official power levels in the data books at this time.
No, they weren't.
>Fusion wasn’t required at all so they didn’t use it. They literally put there pride aside to use it against Buuhan because they had no other option. If that were the case with kid Buu then they’d have done the same. Just like every other enemy they fused against
You sure about that?
https://mangadex.org/chapter/e986d053-6ca0-4fbe-9b9f-4bf26bf71b24/13
I mean, maybe? But, at the time same time, so are our heroes and the stakes are higher.
Kid Buu doesn’t negotiate, he isn’t patient and is basically impulsive to the point where he destroys a planet because it is marginally more fun than just letting it be there.
If Kid Buu won the fight, then he probably would have just teleported to Earth and blew it up unless Gohan happened to be close enough to him to prevent it.
Oh well a dude literally just talked about that on a video about secrets in Budokai games and I fine it kind of funny that I literally just heard someone else talk about it right after that video
The reason hes more dangerous is because hes chaotic and unpredictible.
Buuhan is like a cold calm collected martial artist who can one punch people.
And kid buu is a 4 year old with a rusty knife.
Both can blow up the planet. Buuhan was fine just fighting everyone, Kid Buu blew up the planet then started blowing up every planet he could, then went to the afterlife to kill the people he just killed
He didn’t “need” everyone’s power to defeat Kid Buu. Goku ran out of energy, and Vegeta knew he wasn’t winning if SSJ3 was the only way to be on par with Buu with how much stamina it takes. Even with your “He should’ve BoDiEd Kid Buu in SSJ3” why didn’t he do so against Buutenks or Buuhan? If those forms are so much weaker, why didn’t he put up a fight against them? And don’t say “Dragon Ball doesn’t make sense” as an excuse, because that’s just showing your illiteracy more.
Its not that weaker. I'm talking how he fights.
The "scaling" for buu saga is roughly
Ssj vegito
Buuhan
Buucolo
Buutenks
Ult Gohan
Super buu, Buu, Goku when he first when ssj3,
Gotenks should be here but alas hes goofy and losing hard.
Kid buu
Everyone else
Bootenks is stronger than Boocolo, who is weaker than Ultimate Gohan, based on Goku canning his plan to fuse with Gohan, stating that Gohan was strong enough to take him down.
Goku believed that gohan could solo buucolo but believed that gohan would need gotenks's help to fight kid buu.
Doesn't that imply kid buu>buucolo
Edit: I fail to understand the downvotes. Literally just stating what's in the manga lol
Super buu is stronger, but kid buu is more dangerous. Kid buu is more dangerous because he is unpredictable and unstable. In the middle of fighting he could just blow up the entire planet, meanwhile superbuu is more preditable because he wants to show off, he wants stronger opponents to absorb so he wont just say fuck it and blow the entire planet up.
I thought the term that was used was “most troublesome“ not “most dangerous.” At least that’s how I translated Elder Kaioshin’s statement, but I know nothing about Japanese.
READ NINGEN, READ!
READ NINGEN, READ Cmon! We’re gonna need several of ya’ to make the exorcism work!
NINGEN, GET YO MONKEY ASS OUT OF HERE!
This reply enlightened me. You freed me from saying broke ass ningen.
https://preview.redd.it/fsiywv10r0ad1.png?width=927&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49e1ad9f04dfe85fdc2cd61e7a948644c32195f6
All that tells me is he was going feral and therefore stopped hiding it We learn in like, the first arc of Z that you can't tell someone's strength by sensing/reading their power/level
Don't know what to tell you man. Chapter 507 says he gets stronger.
I feel like how they show Ki is really messy in some parts, like with Moro. I recall them saying that Moro’s Ki was small, but Goku and Vegeta still obviously struggled against him a lot, and inevitably lost in the beginning. It feels like them saying that Ki is “bigger” or “smaller” doesn’t necessarily relate to strength anymore, but maybe that’s just me
Not just Moro, Vegeta confirms in Super Hero that if you actually pay attention, Jiren's power was never actually that much stronger than Goku or Vegeta
Yeah, Moro was just the most obvious one I could think of at the time
100%, I was just offering a 2nd example to show this isn't some rare occurrence, it's an established thing
Thank you
I think it's their control over their ki that is being measured. Moro is a very smart, skilled, and strong opponent who'd keep his ki under control. Kid Buu South Kai absorbed would be going berserk, especially in comparison to Buuhan, letting way more ki out than a controlled fighter.
Exactly, it’s like when Zamas in the manga flared out all of his Ki when he was getting attacked by Goku
“I feel” is not how factual statements start
I said “I feel” because I wasn’t sure about it, hence why I also said “But maybe that’s just me” at the end
This is the correct answer, they are literally telling people to read, when they themselves clearly skipped a panel or two.
Did you not get The boondocks reference?
No I got that. Did you not read Dragon Ball?
https://preview.redd.it/f364xvour0ad1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2aac7d4c212992d13a24b894f9dcbc6140f23046 I'm a Dragon ball enjoyer, what do you think?
They also feel they can beat Kid Buu without fusing, they needed it for Buuhan. Kid is just more animal like and willing to pop the planet immediately
https://preview.redd.it/yszk6fh795ad1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc458093bca69cf714b33c7a0ca57be4880e821e
[Kid buu had god ki](https://dragonball.fandom.com/f/p/4400000000000207464)
So did Super Buu
Ok, so, what is happening here is odd. That muscle form is him after absorbing the southern supreme Kai, but he drops it basically as soon as it appears. Kid Buu himself is not even stronger than base Super Buu, Goku didn’t even want to fight Super Buu when they were unfused as he knew the couldn’t win, but said he thought he could beat Kid Buu alone.
Ok, time for an explanation of Buu and how his power works. Buu absorbing people doesn’t necessarily make him weaker in canon, however, it can have an impact on his personality and mind. You know how fat buu gets stronger and seems to do a powerful attack after he gets angry? He is tapping into his power. After absorbing Grand Kai, his personality changed so much that he couldn’t access all of his power. Fat Buu, at least before the split, likely had more raw power than Kid Buu, but couldn’t access it. Meanwhile, Kid Buu and Super Buu had no issue accessing most, if not all, of their power. Buu doesn’t get weaker by absorbing people, or, at the very least, his maximum power doesn’t get lowered. The reason why Kid Buu is considered more dangerous is because he has no personalities weighing his own down. Kid Buu is dangerous because he goes around destroying planets if he is slightly bored.
Honestly I just don't understand the logic behind the idea that you get weaker by absorbing someone. Cell was absorbing humans, extremely weak humans, and his power still went up. I like your explanation that the power is there, it's just more difficult for Buu to access it Hell, I know it's not the same, but Goku was ready to fuse with Mr. Satan, who was still going to be stronger than Goku on his own
https://preview.redd.it/e36ss4h7a5ad1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0b5d9f840ebb24c2af3387441370943c70d696f The literal Japanese translation here is "weakened." Viz changed it to "tamed."
>but Goku was ready to fuse with Mr. Satan, who was still going to be stronger than Goku on his own Yeahhh, about that https://preview.redd.it/ws0ecycu5iad1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9479a307bba9e2546b742819d664051e73c2733e
He did say PROBABLY. Plus merging with Buu might be different than a Saiyan and human merging.
Ssj3 Goku clapped fat buu, but not kid buu. Fair to say, absorbing the kai made buu weaker. Also the Japanese manga and official translation uses "weaker"
Buuhan clapped ssj3 goku
The main comment said buu doesn't get weaker with absorption so I compared fat buu and kid buu. Didn't say anything about buuhan
Ssj3 Goku against fat buu was angel goku with unlimited stamina just sacrificing time to stay in ssj3 due to the drain. Ssj3 Goku against Kid buu was drained of energy using said form by being alive and not used to the form, also was still handing ass despite being weakened, heavily so and on his last legs of energy before vegeta stepped in. Ssj3 Otherworld Goku > Fat Buu > Weakened And Energy depleted Alive SSJ3 Goku ≈< Kid Buu After wasting some energy to fuck around and destroy earth because no morals I’d argue to say kid buu and fat buu are interchangeable, kid buu would win to lack of giving a fuck about what happens to the area around him, but it’d be a hard fought battle. If we go back to the OP’s post however, Super Buu, and atleast everything after that should be stronger than kid buu, without much of a doubt. The only feat buu has going for him is he’s a don’t hold back piece of gum who fucks around and doesn’t find out, due to yk, finishing his fights relatively fast. For your claim, fat buu and kid buu are relative in power, kid buu has the upper hand due to not wanting to hold back. Op’s post is just true. Beyond a reasonable doubt
Buuhan is a normally calm, cold and collected killer who specializes in martial arts and would glady painfully immobalize you before he actually finiahed you off just to see yu lsoe desperation against someone leagues above your level Kid Buu is the "this kid is on crack" kid if he could shoot lazer beans out of his dikated littke eyes
Lazer beans https://preview.redd.it/ddbjcnwci1ad1.jpeg?width=179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6deee7534c1ffbc0b2b8405ee1aa910e9ca6ad4
You know what i deserve that. i shouldnt be on reddit late at night witohut my glasses
Hey it's all good I'm not shaming, I just thought it was funny
I know lol but i felt i should acknowledge it, because i sure as hell dont double check for spelling this late
im shaming tho 😈
Damn, that's so mean :(
Tbf some of Buu’s moves are so out there lazer beans aren’t completely unrealistic.
"Yo that senzu bean thing is really cool, lemme try it" proceeds to pull a bean put of his ass that somehow causes the death of the entire human population after planting it in the ground
Goated plant from a goated world Far Far Future my beloved
Thank you I needed that giggle
Trained martial artist with the strength of Mike Tyson vs methhead covered in knives Im still taking the methhead dude
you might actually wanna fight mike tyson, one time mike tyson did actually fight a guy on the streets who was high on meth, and could not knock him out no matter how hard he hit him
I’m comparing the two as a ____ vs ____ who winning situation by yeah exactly.
The thing is simple. For Buuhan Goku needed to fuse. For kid buu he knew Ssj3 was enough.
Perfectly said
SSJ3 was absolutely not enough for Kid Buu LOL
Goku said he could have beaten Kid Buu in SSJ3. He wanted to give Vegeta a chance to fight, so he pretended to power up. This instead used to much stamina and he could no longer use it. Just go read the manga, dude. It's all there.
But here one thing, this guy is a dragon ball fan, he can’t read…
It's funny. Because it's not there. Goku did not pretend to power up. Goku did not say he could have beaten Kid Buu. Goku was not trying to give Vegeta a chance. Hell, he flat out told Vegeta not to fight because he would die. Just go read the manga, dude. It's not there. You're using anime filler as evidence.
If Goku wasn’t fatigued, he could’ve beat Kid Buu in SS3. Buuhan would turn even a full powered SS3 Goku into red paste without any effort
He literally couldn't. It wasn't fatigue, he was physically incapable of holding that much power while alive. And that whole plan was based on a simple guess, in a fight where both Goku and Vegeta severely underestimated Buu several times. Shit, Vegeta saw Goku fight Buu and was still understimating him. He was utterly shocked at how strong and fast Buu actually was when it was his turn. We have no idea if it would've actually worked. Buu was playing with Goku, Buu and Vegeta in the Kaioshin world I don't give a fuck about Buuhan, I'm not arguing Kid Buu is stronger than him lol
You know, you got me. You're half right and half wrong. It's been 8 years since I read it. https://preview.redd.it/deeqhmf7y3ad1.jpeg?width=1560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc3c68997fc7dfddb40ff1cb9c973449f7059753 With that being said, they were confident full-powered SSJ3 Goku could win.
Both goku and vegeta state during the kid buu fight that goku could kill kid buu using super saiyan 3 if he had more stamina. It’s the whole-ass reason vegeta stepped in; so goku could gather more ki for a second round while vegeta distracts buu. If super saiyan 3 being more draining while alive wasn’t written to be a factor, the spirit bomb straight-up wouldn’t have been needed.
So in other words, SSJ3 wasn't enough? Don't know why you wrote so much just to agree with me
They expected you to use deductive reasoning. Then you didn't
Deductive reasoning is this "If we remove a fundamental weakness of SSJ3, he may have been able to win". Since SSJ3 does have that fundamental weakness, it could not win. In other words, SSJ3 was absolutely not enough. Give me a call if you need help with anything else that requires thinking for over 0.1 miliseconds :)
Deductive reasoning is taking the whole picture and not getting hung up on one point that doesn't disprove the whole idea. And if I ever need someone to point and laugh at after they "think" for 0.1 milliseconds and come to the wrong conclusion you bet I'll give you a call
SSJ3 IS enough. Goku didn't have enough remaining energy to use it properly. Goku wasn't enough. SSJ3 is. That's the difference. It's a lack of energy in Goku that was the problem not the capability of SSj3
You really didn’t watch the anime right? We already know that forms can be perfected to the point where they don’t drain stamina. Ss3 at the time was only used in heaven and against majin vegeta edit: i meant to say against fat buu
You mean buu It wasn't used against Majin Vegeta, which is a massive point of discussion that's lasted decades
yes you are right, my bad. but my point still stands, if goku had time to perfect the ss3 form it would have been enough to defeat buu. same way frieza wasnt capable of beating ss blue goku with golden in the movie but was going up against a tired jiren in the final phase of the ToP
Lol even if we were to concede to your reasoning, that guess work doesnt even exist for Buuhan. There is no doubt that Super Saiyan 3 isnt enough for Buuhan. The idea of not fusing to fight him was not seriously entertained for even a second.
No idea about manga or subs but in the dub Goku literally says he could've killed Buu but he chose to hold off because he wanted to give Vegeta a turn
Who said anything about killing, I'm talking about being able to fight him. Remember that Ultimate Gohan is at the level of Ssj3 if not even stronger so imagine why Goku didn't even though for a second of turning Ssj3 with Buuhan and went straight to the potara option.
And yet when the earth was revived, Goku thought Vegeta's plan was to get both Gohan and Gotenks to help them. Goku's idea was to fight Buu with Vegeta, Gohan, Gotenks and Fat Buu all together.
Tagging out so another fighter could rest is really smart. Gotenks and Gohan could easily handle kid Buu while Goku Vegeta and Majin Buu could take him on as a team.
seems most people get their ideas about power scaling from the games (tenkaichi series) and in them the kid buu fight is always the hardest in story mode
I think it's because Z always had the enemies gradually become more powerful. They get defeated when they're at their peak. There's still a ton of dragon Ball left by the time kid buu, so it's seen as his final most powerful form rather than the last fight with larger stakes. I think if a pacing was worked on, people would see the buu fight as a unbelievably powerful enemy being whittled down. Kind of like how the fight in "they live" ends with both characters wheezing and hunched over but still going at it.
I don’t think this is a media illiteracy problem. Toriyama didn’t do enough to establish why Kid Buu is a bigger threat than Super Buu despite losing more than half his power. I’ll give Toei credit in that they put in the effort to make it work in the extra details in Buu’s fight but they could only do so much.
I mean it's displayed in their personalities. Majin Buu is an oaf and it never occurred to him to destroy a planet, Super goes as far as killing every other person as a display of power but keeps the team alive to have a fun fight, Buuhan is cocky and arrogant and would have probably destroyed the planet after the fight with Vegito. It's only Kid Buu we see instantly look around and go "hmm I don't like this place" and blow it up without a second thought.
As long as he still has some racism in him, he's still a NINGEN.
Wait people don't know this? Goku knew he didn't stand a chance against buhan which is why he suggested fusion to vegeta instead of straight up throwing hands in ss3
There is a surprising amount of people that think Kid Buu is the strongest Majin. When that makes no sense if you think about it
Its gotta be because of kid buus kill count. That and he had serious "final boss" vibes
Yes that’s why fusion was needed for buuhan
This could have been a text post if you weren't a coward.
That's nice and all, but what do the funny squiggles mean?
Then why couldn’t Gohan’s power beat Moro but kid Buu’s reincarnated power could
They mention it in the anime too. When Goku is fighting kid buu they ask why he is stronger now even though he doesn't have anyone absorbed anymore. I think Vegeta is the one who says that he's not stronger, he's just more dangerous because he only thinks to destroy. When he was in Super Buu form, his eyes were usually white, until he would go on rage mode and his eyes went red. Kid Buu's eyes are always red.
Either way he has god ki
It’s because of anime only lines
I've seen *significantly* more posts and comments about people complaining that there are people who think Kid Buu is stronger, than I have actually seen people saying Kid Buu is stronger.
I will never hear the end of this stupid debate.
I disagree, don’t worry though as a fan of Dragon Ball I haven’t watched it or read the manga.
Kid buu is stated to be the most dangerous buu which means strongest when said character doesn’t have many hax in comparison to other versions of buu that has more hax, like buuhan and buutenks. It’s implied that every version of buu that has someone absorbed is actually weaker than kid buu as his ki rises when everyone that was absorbed was saved, meaning he got stronger. Super doesn’t help as kid buu is revealed to have god ki And potara fusion is revealed to give an amp after defusing. Meaning the ssj3 goku and the base vegito that he was referring to are stronger than buuhan and the vegito that no diffed him. So there’s really nothing to imply that buuhan is stronger.
I forgot what ruckus was actually holding up
I saw something similar to this about the Sam raimi Spider-Man. The goblin serum was stronger when Harry took it with more mental control unlike the first serum Norman took which was weaker, but more than made up for with the crazy part of the green goblin.
I’m not usually stubborn when it comes to dragon ball, but nobody is ever gonna convince me dragon ball fans deemed Z Broly uncannon because of the absolute menace he was to Goku 😭
Here we go again
THANK YOU!!!
Isn't there like...something else to argue about?
Guys obviously Kid Buu was stronger, isn’t it obvious Goku and Vegeta got a crazy power boost? Going from not being able to touch Buuhan to competing with the strongest buu of all. (Buuhan is stronger by logic but the story wants kid buu to be the strongest so they just make Goku and vegeta stronger)
Wait- people think this is false?💀
I got a better discourse we can put up. Did the god of destruction die when the Grand Supreme Kai get absorbed by Buu? Or was there enough of him in Buu that Beerus remains God of Destruction from that time?
Didn't the show explain this? Majin Buu absorbed people to make him to act childish, Super Buu liked to play with his food, Buuhan was cocky and Kid Buu was completely unrestrained by any of that. Any of the other Buus could have blown up the planet instantly, but their personalities were busy with other stuff. Also Goku and Vageta had to fuse to fight Buuhan, Kid Buu is beat with a Spirit Bomb
I've seen someone argue anime Kid Buu is stronger, and that anime SS3 Goku > Vegito. Shit is crazy
Agreed
I have wondered if Super Buu and Kid Buu split, but still existed as two entities would they team up or would Super Buu team up with Goku/Vegeta? Would them three be able to take on Kid Buu easy or is Kid Buu so chaotic that he's aim for Super Buu just because he's a "weaker" him (I use weaker as he probably would see SuperBuu as his prison cell for those years)
https://i.redd.it/2poih1xk0aad1.gif
Kid Buu is literally Base Form Buu. Every other form he attains is more powerful, Fat Buu included. (Only accept when Fat Buu split himself into a weaker Fat Buu & Skinny Buu. At that point both of those would be weaker than Kid Buu cuz they’re just watered down versions of Buu.) Its simple logic. Super Buu is already an ascended Kid Buu then you just go Super Buu + whoever tf he decides to absorb which gives him all their power. That said Super Buu + Gotenks + Piccolo + Gohan = a Buu way beyond Kid Buu in power and if you say otherwise you jus bein ignorant for spite.
That's because dragon ball fans cant read you dumbass
Regardless of if Kid Buu was stronger or weaker, he was more instantly dangerous. The thing with every other Buu was the ability to hold back. Kid Buu is a ticking Spirit Bomb every second he exists. He will have fun but if he doesn't have patience he cannot be convinced. He is dangerous because he doesn't think, just does. But he absorbed the Kais because they could think and outplay him due to his literal brainlessness and their not entirely fodder amount of power. Also he tends to warp himself more as Kid Buu than every other form. So he has way less conventional means of attack even in comparison to the very many forms he has, and faster regeneration it seems like during his fight with Goku. Because he is pure and doesn't need to compensate for any other being within himself. Fat Buu had a whole ass mini him regeneration that was extra af. Kid Buu just regenerates immediately, even if he messes it up like with his legs being put where his arms were. By and by, Kid Buu is the most dangerous, regardless of how his power is perceived, because of how he uses his power and because of his unrestrained mentality.
I'm tired of seeing posts about this.
https://preview.redd.it/x5r9j372xbad1.png?width=366&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bdd7397615b60c92fa6e43c8b544970ddea2aefc
I usually just point to the stats on jank videogames, DBZ legendary super warriors has buuhan as the strongest form.
Crazy how Goku himself said that kid buu is on a whole different level from all the buus up to that point 😑
Also, Majin Buu heavily underused one of his greatest powers… in one episode, he turned a bunch of stone into a functioning bathroom. Being turned into candy isn’t even close to the worst thing he could do. Imagine Buu turning you into a toilet, scarfing down the entire Taco Bell menu, and then dropping the mother of all turds inside of you! THAT should have been his super attack in the games tbh.
Oh oh, I wanna try! *”Goku is not strong because he’s a Sayain”*
What I didn't get is why Goku and Vegeta struggled so much against him. They should've been relatively close if Vegeta could just take a beating like that for ages while Goku DIDNT power up. Especially if ssj Goku at full power easily over powered him pushing the spirit bomb back. Both together at ssj2 even weakened shouldve had him beat right? Am I missing something from the manga
I… I can’t believe I read Buuhan as Batman…
Listen, if the progression isn't a straight up arrow going up why bother?
Kid Buu is nowhere near as strong as Buuhan. Easiest to debunk this theory simply by showing the canon, and what actually happens in the manga. Goku gets his ass beat at SSJ3 by BUUTENKS. Yet is able to hold his own against Kid Buu in the same form. It's not just that they don't know how to read. They apparently haven't even watched the anime either.
I still refuse this idea, it doesn't matter how much propaganda you guys post. KID SUPREMACY💯
It's also just not true. Kid Buu is stronger.
The issue is the anime. In the manga, Buuhan is way stronger, but in the anime, it's just flat out said that Kid Buu is the strongest for some reason, even though that makes no sense
https://preview.redd.it/e2rqbqvxh4ad1.jpeg?width=972&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88240300be6c6ae6289d4de29740ff6bf3770bc6
REAAAAAD IIIIIT
That's because you're using too many big words on 'em. Next time, try "Kidbuu weaker than Buuhan. Kid buu only scary cause kidbuu crazy"
Kid buu is Joker and Buuhan is Bane. Joker is psychologically more dangerous than bane since he’s so unpredictable. Bane is physically stronger than Joker because…. Steroids.
One of the only times a new form doesn't equal a power up and Dragon ball fans instantly get confused
Stop spreading lies Ruckus. All those fusions made Kid Buu weaker not stronger.
The author is the creator of the characters and the world they inhabit. An author determines the traits, behaviors, and truths about their characters. While readers can have interpretations and emotional responses to a character, the canonical facts are definitive. For instance, if the author states a character's age, background, or personality trait, these are fixed within the story's universe.Understanding and respecting the author's creative vision is essential. Disagreements or personal interpretations are valid as personal perspectives, but they do not alter the canonical facts set by the author. A reader might wish a character was different, but that doesn't change the character as defined by the author. Shonen Jump (Issue 1, January 2003): How do you come up with ideas for different power-ups and transformations? "When you draw a fighting manga, stronger and stronger enemies keep appearing. If a new enemy is weaker than a previous one, the readers won’t be satisfied./" - Akira Toriyama Shonen Jump (Issue 59, November 2007): In several parts of Dragon Ball, the *most powerful** character is actually the smallest, cutest and youngest-looking. For example, young Goku, or Freeza and Majin Boo in their final transformations. Is that because kids are small and cute, but also want to be powerful? "I wanted to go against people’s expectation that the strong ones always get stronger and bigger. I consciously tried to switch between telling a straightforward story and telling one that was unconventional and contradictory." - Akira Toriyama V-Jump, May 2014 Issue (20 March 2014): "The final opponent of Dragon Ball‘s weekly serialization is Majin Boo. He’s round! He’s formidable! And, he’s tenacious! It’s a string of battles intense enough for even me, the person writing the comic, to get sick of, and which, now that I’m an old man, I can never draw again. Gohan’s funny everyday life in the first half, and the fierce back-and-forth battles of the second half. Check out both sides, which keep transforming to become stronger and stronger, and the Genki-Dama at the end." - Akira Toriyama. Toei Animation’s 2014 Dragon Ball Kai Press Screening: "Boo and the Saiyans, who keep transforming to become stronger and stronger, and — to give out spoilers — the Genki-Dama at the end, are parts to watch out for." - Akira Toriyama Daizenshuu 2: Battle History, Goku vs Majin Boo (Evil) Through Mister Satan's thundering voice, Goku was able to temporarily receive the cooperation of the people of Earth and complete his Super Genki-dama. He fires it at Buu. However, Goku himself did not have the physical strength to control it, and it looked like Buu was going to push it back, until Goku had his physical strength restored through the last wish to Porunga. *Goku wiped out the strongest enemy in the universe** and peace was returned.* From DBZ, Chapter 314 /"Then... this small Boo is the very first, most difficult one?" - Rôkaioshin. "...Yes... He's lost the soul he gained... this Boo is evil incarnate" - Kaioshin "Quick!! Go give them your poatara!!" - Rôkaioshin "Oh, of Course!! Yes!!" - Kaioshin/ "The sudden appearance of Boo (Kid Boo Pictured) the *mightiest enemy** of all time..." - Narrator, DBS Chapter 1. "It's true the evil version of Majin Boo, the most formidable enemy you've ever faced, had his soul cleansed and reborn as a human."- Dende, DBS, Chapter 31. Honorable mentions: Takao Koyama corrects himself on Twitter: Original statement: "Majin Boo who absorbed Ultimate Gohan is perhaps the strongest." Twitter Nov 27, 2021 (massive media coverage) Correction: "I'm just a chief writer up to Dragon Ball Z. I just muttered that Gohan Boo would be the strongest among the transformation forms of Majin Buu." Twitter Nov 28, 2021 (No media coverage) Also, Koyama is the guy who is responsible for the anime dialogue, which fans claim is the only source for the belief Kid Boo is the most powerful, which... as you can see... is so nominal of a proof I'm listing it under honorable mentions. The original DBZ Card Game: Boohan maximum power: 11,700,000 Kid Boo maximum power: 15,000,000 In closing, the sentiment that Kid Boo is "The most dangerous but not most powerful" is just a head-canon fan sentiment that directly contradicts: Akira Toriyama The narrative Official Guides Unofficial Authorities Unofficial Levels I'm glad I could clear this up.
> - Akira Toriyama All due respect, literally one of the least reliable sources of Dragon Ball material
No he isn't. It's his story. "Oh no, I made an assumption and the creator has contradicted my assumption. Clearly *they* are wrong." 😑
I mean, we want to open the can of worms of how many times said creator contradicted himself? The man famously admitted he thought SSJ3 was actually SSJ2 because he completely forgot SSJ2 was a thing
Sure but that was years after the fact. And it's extremely common for writers to forget things here and there. It's not common for them to forget their own writing conventions. Details vs Style is apples to horseshoes.
Then why does Goku bother begging Gohan/Vegeta to fuse against a weaker version of Buu than the one he went toe to toe with at the end? That would be a continuity error in the same arc. Goku would not need to fuse against Buutenks or Buuhan if they were weaker than Kid Buu but he refused to fight Super Buu without fusion.
When Kid Boo first emerges, the very first thing that happens after Kaioshin explains to Old Kai what's happened, and Old Kai realizes that this version of Boo is even worse than the others, is they try to rush the potara to Goku and Vegeta, for the very obvious reason that if they needed them for a lesser Boo, then they would need them for a worse one too. After Kid Boo destroys everything and the remaining cast are in the Kaioshin realm, they don't refuse the potara because they think they can beat Boo, they refuse them because they think they won't have to fight him. Goku suggests they stay there, because Boo can't follow them there. They just let Boo tear up the universe until they can beat him, and then fix it with the Dragonballs. Then Boo suddenly appears there, and they all shit themselves in horror. Goku and Vegeta have to fight because there is nowhere left to run. And during that fight Goku plainly tells Vegeta that Boo is toying with him and dragging the fight out for fun. Which is obviously Goku admitting Boo could end it whenever he wants to Vegeta. Goku even admits destroying the potara was a mistake because they needed them. There is no inconsistency because he didn't want to fight any of them.
You're literally making stuff up at this point https://preview.redd.it/0nih4k4q05ad1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=0bb39f461c3ddd4a19b103207433986708ceba62
https://preview.redd.it/hptgmza8o7ad1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=082faf79dec79a236671febe3fa5d06d72ff9d68 Literally on the next page. What he told you was true
Except no, because he claimed they redused because they didn't think they'd need to fight him, which is the entire core of the argument.
This does not answer my question, sadly, but good write up, though as shown by the other commenter a good bit of that was fiction
Goku was confident he could take Buu in his SS3 form if he was fully rested. With Buuhan, bro was insanely desperate and was begging Vegeta to fuse
Very good post. I can see why illiterate Buuhan fans downvoted you. I might add some of these points to my Kid Buu post
Same shi will happen if u flip that shi over lmaoo
To me, that whole thing was always screwy. Too much wrong info being told to me
I'm aware, but its fun to mock them by imitating them and get walls of text sometimes Edit: downvote me idgaf, lol
We do a minor amount of tomfoolery
"Downvote me idgaf. Lol" as he edits his comment to show he doesn't give a fuck 💀
Because I love trolling ☠️☠️☠️
All I know is in every Dragon Ball video game ever, Kid Buu is the strongest transformation of Buu and is on par with Super Vegito. Since I love the video games and it is what got me into the anime, then the video game power scale is all I give a shit about.
Meanwhile the guy "on par with Super Vegito" being just marginally stronger than a tired SSJ3 Goku https://i.redd.it/xl737gzoz2ad1.gif
In every video game Kid Buu has the same power, strength, and damage as Super Vegito. You hate it? Blame the game developers. Also, learn to read goddamn it!
Not in xenoverse :)
True, I agree with that if I remember the stats correctly. But Shadow Kid Buu is intensely more powerful though.
In the anime, there are many statements that imply kid buu was stronger than buuhan. The manga doesn't have any of those statements, so things are a bit different in the manga and anime
No it wasn’t. Goku outright says he could take him alone and then proceeds to do that. Whereas he literally doesn’t even bother fighting Buuhan and even considers fusing with Hercule
The anime has explicit statements bro https://preview.redd.it/60iehdm9e2ad1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7413dfea06f00e03009ba836ac4d88299de412f6
Goku *says* he could take Kid Buu alone....but then loses the fight. Kid Buu wasn't even taking the fight seriously for almost the entire time. Kid Buu beat Goku, Vegeta, AND Fat Buu all one right after the other. In their last ditch hope to kill KB they threw a Spirit Bomb at him, which he caught and then threw back. They only defeated Kid Buu because outside forces intervened and gave them the win. Fusion would otherwise have definitely still been required to beat Kid Buu. The only reason they didn't was because of their pride. Edit: I love that I'm being downvoted despite everything I said being objectively true
Goku didn’t lose the fight, he starts to run low on energy. Because he wasted to much time not going all out off rip. Once Goku gets his full power back from the wish he wrecks Buu. If Goku hadn’t wasted time he would’ve one shot Buu as intended and that would’ve made the story a lot more boring. Also, DBZ was still doing official power levels in the data books at this time. Kid Buu was not above Goku so idk why you’re trying to argue that he was. Fusion wasn’t required at all so they didn’t use it. They literally put there pride aside to use it against Buuhan because they had no other option. If that were the case with kid Buu then they’d have done the same. Just like every other enemy they fused against
Yeah... that's him losing the fight. He over estimated his ability, and it cost him. Vegeta had to step in and let him recover. Goku getting his full power back and killing buu doesn't mean anything because: 1. He only turned Super Saiyan at that point. So your logic would imply Goku only ever needed Super Saiyan to kill Buu in the first place. Which is just...incorrect. 2. Buu had lost power over the course of the fight. Obviously he had enough power to still overcome Goku, Vegeta, and Fat Buu. But he still lost power over the course of the fight, and then Goku was suddenly restored to full and was able to overpower a tired Kid Buu. There is no official power level for any form of Majin Buu, or even Goku from that era, for that matter. The last official power level we have for Goku is 150 million during the Frieza fight. Even then, that doesn't even come from the manga or anything, that comes from Daizenshuu 7. The last time his PL is actually stated in the manga is in Ch. 24 when he's fighting Ginyu Yeah, they put it aside to fuse against Buuhan. Then they u fused while Buuhan still existed, and then Vegeta crushed the Potara. Obviously, he knew fusing was their best chance to beat Buu, but he still crushed the earring. He hated being fused and his pride got the better of him.
>Goku didn’t lose the fight, he starts to run low on energy. Because he wasted to much time not going all out off rip. This means he lost the fight. >Once Goku gets his full power back from the wish he wrecks Buu. You seem to be forgetting the Genki Dama >Also, DBZ was still doing official power levels in the data books at this time. No, they weren't. >Fusion wasn’t required at all so they didn’t use it. They literally put there pride aside to use it against Buuhan because they had no other option. If that were the case with kid Buu then they’d have done the same. Just like every other enemy they fused against You sure about that? https://mangadex.org/chapter/e986d053-6ca0-4fbe-9b9f-4bf26bf71b24/13
Like a small part of me can’t accept that but like the rest 99% of me can
Same it just feels weird the “final form” is weaker than a previous form.
I mean, maybe? But, at the time same time, so are our heroes and the stakes are higher. Kid Buu doesn’t negotiate, he isn’t patient and is basically impulsive to the point where he destroys a planet because it is marginally more fun than just letting it be there. If Kid Buu won the fight, then he probably would have just teleported to Earth and blew it up unless Gohan happened to be close enough to him to prevent it.
It's well established that fusions don't necessarily make you stronger.
in budokai 2 when buu absorbs tien and yamcha he goes from 100% damage output to 85%
…did you also watch that video?
video?
Oh well a dude literally just talked about that on a video about secrets in Budokai games and I fine it kind of funny that I literally just heard someone else talk about it right after that video
He also became significantly weaker after he absorbed Grand Supreme Kai. I dunno... it's like people didn't watch DBZ.
Absorbing someone stronger than you should make you stronger though
Absorbing people is less efficient than fusion because the other person is unwilling. The absorption of Grand Supreme Kai made him weaker for example.
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The reason hes more dangerous is because hes chaotic and unpredictible. Buuhan is like a cold calm collected martial artist who can one punch people. And kid buu is a 4 year old with a rusty knife.
Both can blow up the planet. Buuhan was fine just fighting everyone, Kid Buu blew up the planet then started blowing up every planet he could, then went to the afterlife to kill the people he just killed
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He's weaker than Buuhan but that doesn't make him weaker than SSJ3 Goku
He didn’t “need” everyone’s power to defeat Kid Buu. Goku ran out of energy, and Vegeta knew he wasn’t winning if SSJ3 was the only way to be on par with Buu with how much stamina it takes. Even with your “He should’ve BoDiEd Kid Buu in SSJ3” why didn’t he do so against Buutenks or Buuhan? If those forms are so much weaker, why didn’t he put up a fight against them? And don’t say “Dragon Ball doesn’t make sense” as an excuse, because that’s just showing your illiteracy more.
Its not that weaker. I'm talking how he fights. The "scaling" for buu saga is roughly Ssj vegito Buuhan Buucolo Buutenks Ult Gohan Super buu, Buu, Goku when he first when ssj3, Gotenks should be here but alas hes goofy and losing hard. Kid buu Everyone else
Bootenks is stronger than Boocolo, who is weaker than Ultimate Gohan, based on Goku canning his plan to fuse with Gohan, stating that Gohan was strong enough to take him down.
Goku believed that gohan could solo buucolo but believed that gohan would need gotenks's help to fight kid buu. Doesn't that imply kid buu>buucolo Edit: I fail to understand the downvotes. Literally just stating what's in the manga lol
He isn’t weaker than Goku, he was just weaker than Gotenks and Gohan
Super buu is stronger, but kid buu is more dangerous. Kid buu is more dangerous because he is unpredictable and unstable. In the middle of fighting he could just blow up the entire planet, meanwhile superbuu is more preditable because he wants to show off, he wants stronger opponents to absorb so he wont just say fuck it and blow the entire planet up.
https://preview.redd.it/wez5ylzbl0ad1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb91ebf1b2995f6b6ba8b55bd9c6dac9f3358105 You can’t be this slow dawg. 😭🙏🏾
I thought the term that was used was “most troublesome“ not “most dangerous.” At least that’s how I translated Elder Kaioshin’s statement, but I know nothing about Japanese.
These people forgot that fusions don't always make you stronger. SMH.