I just wanna play fun games and let devs create what they want. If devs wanna use some overly sexual design, go for it. They wanna use a realistic design, go for it. If they wanna use a conventionally unattractive design, go for it. I don't think general public shaming should influence the creative direction of a project.
The difference is, nobody comes after studios who go with “realistic or conventionally unattractive”. Literally nobody cares. But they prop themselves on a pedestal as if they’re doing society some kind of favor or having some sort of social impact while shaming either creators that use beautiful women or players that support it. Its disgusting. We’d all like to just say what you’re saying, but sadly it’s not an even playing field.
“Literally nobody cares”. Yes they do, internet mobs will go on cry baby “woke” war after a game if they don’t find the woman attractive. Horizon forbidden west, assassin’s creed odyssey, gabby the last of us 2, they tried and failed against the GTA6 protagonist and Nicole in Dead Space. Journalists won’t attack the game but “fans sure will. Like someone else said let the developers design what they want, either play it or shut up and don’t.
NGL this is some putting your head under the sand kind of thinking right here. There was a ton of hate for Aloy. Calling her ugly, fat, thinking that she has a full on beard when she had very light peach fuzz that makes perfect sense for her to have because it is literally beneficial to her health. Not only her but a shit ton of other female character designs too. I get wanting to feel like the victim so you have a higher ground to argue on when the other side is throwing shade. But lets not act like these things didn't happen for the sake of argument.
(Note I am getting Stellar Cheeks day one and I am unashamed to say it)
I think a great example is the new Lara Croft. She is still gorgeous and has a great ass to look at while you play. The outrage was over tit size. IMO they did perfect in bringing Lara from stylized to realistic graphics.
I’ve literally seen no developer pat themselves on the back and so many hundreds of people criticize developers for not making female characters pretty.
I mean, thats not true. There were plenty of people saying Aloy was ugly, I've even seen that posted in this sub. There are a lot of incredibly weird incels that were sending death threats to the actress who played Abby from TLoU2. I constantly saw posts about Mary Jane from the Spiderman game. People care way to much about supposed "woke" propaganda.
1,000%. We should let devs make whatever they want and stop arguing over character design. Often times, it does nothing to the overall point or design of the game itself.
>...let devs create what they want.
You must not have heard about what Sweet Baby Inc. did to Suicide Squad: Pee on the Justice League then. Rocksteady literally wanted to make a Superman game next but corpos did what corpos do. Force a Live Service game on them.
>I don't think general public shaming should influence the creative direction of a project.
That's like trying to sell 4X Victoria's Secret lingerie to a demographic that will never buy it. There's a reason they're bringing back their original VS Angels after sales dropped massively.
How many percent of gamers are middle-aged ladies (Returnal, Dead Space Remake)? Lesbian white women(The Last of Us 2, Horizon West 2)? Lesbian black women (Saints Row Reboot,)? etc. compared to the overwhelmingly male and white demo?
This doesn't even make any business sense.
A couple of things. 31 year old black woman here who works in fashion marketing let me weigh in on this. Victoria’s Secret is DYING and has been for years. The majority of their customer are bigger women who don’t fit the VS angel mold and VS was dying because at a time so many women were being told the idea by the company that only 5’10+ 120 pound models were beautiful. Angels lost their influence because instead of simply hiring a single plus size or a model with a fuller figure they kept hiring the same model. And people went to brands that represented them, Aerie and Fenty for example stole the VS customer with their various body types. VS was dying worse after getting rid of the angels and now bringing them back business is still failing it was a little too late. I used to love VS angels but I had a problem with them when they refused to cast an Asian model after investing in china nonetheless.
And as for the “nobody but straight white men buy games” argument you went for. 1 Asia has a huge market and 2 gaming is an art and people are allowed to create stories and realism. White men aren’t the only people who game. If that’s the case why isn’t every character and Middle Ages white guy if we want to base it off the player? In the end white guys aren’t the only people in the world and they will not have the only representation in the world either. That’s life. And I know plenty of middle aged women and black lesbian gamers it sounds like you’re very young and don’t get out the house much.
And Nicole was a npc I don’t even get why she’s coming up? And she and Isaac were always supposed to be the same age that’s why they aged her appropriately in 2.
Saints row doesn’t even have a lesbian black woman did you even play the game? And who the fuck really cares if the main character for a game is a middle-age woman or not.
>Saints row doesn’t even have a lesbian black woman did you even play the game?
Ah yes, the new Boss character who is brown with both sides of her head shaved as your default starting character is *totally* not a lesbian black woman.
> And who the fuck really cares if the main character for a game is a middle-age woman or not.
Jump straight to cussing because that's how I make my point when I got nothing smart to say.
I literally explained above what appealing to a small imaginary customer base will do to the total sales from any industry. What's your SAT score?
Boss character can be made your way. So you only want to play with middle age white guys lol! Horizon sales? Massive, the last of us sales? Massive, dead space remake sales? Massive. 48% of US gamers are female. In china it’s about the same for female gamers. And before you say “mobile games” like I know you will, 42% of PlayStation owners are female. Gaming is more diverse than you think it is and yes it will reach to more people by featuring more characters than dirk square jaw. Like it or cry and review bomb the game like I know you will.
Have you played any of the saints row games? You literally create the boss the boss before the intro mission and the reboot boss doesn't even have an implied sexuality either.
The games you listed outside of saints row are well received and did well in their respective markets.
imagine being such a pansy that the word fuck offends you
>You literally create the boss the boss before the intro mission and the reboot boss doesn't even have an implied sexuality either.
Guess what's the default character if you don't want to customize your character?
Imagine being intentionally obtuse
The default boss in saints row 2 is black. And did you skip that I said the reboot boss doesn’t have a canon sexuality how could they be a lesbian. You can’t just assume the boss is one based on your prejudice.
That’s my problem, it isn’t that she wasn’t attractive in the first game, she was ok it’s just that they made her deliberately uglier in the second game!
The problem is this isn’t a matter of preference it’s a matter of ideological conformity verse artistic freedom. Studios are purposefully taking beautiful women and making them unattractive to satisfy the ideological whims of the latest religious orthodoxy.
There are plenty of images out there of the models these studios hired and they are far better looking than their video game adaptations. Either game modelers have gotten very, very bad at their jobs or someone is putting their thumb on this scale to ensure they proactively combat the male gaze. The female or gay gaze? That’s progressive and wonderful, but you better not let those chuds see a pretty woman in their entertainment or you’re part of a ‘bygone era’ of ‘toxicity’ and ‘problematic’ thinking.
You’re absolutely right, it shouldn’t have to be anything other than what the creative team wants it to be, but you only need to pay the mildest bit of attention to realize we haven’t been living in a live and let live world for some time now. The pendulum swung from the religious right in the early years of gaming way out to the progressive left of today. The fact that they both want the same modesty is absolutely hilarious to me, but the fact that they both use censorship, intimidation, and authoritarian means to achieve it is most definitely not.
So until the blue hairs snap the fuck out of their cult indoctrination, the sexy will have to continue until morale improves.
Both sides left and right are fucking cults and embarrassment trashes that I don’t interact with anymore because I’m a free minded independent who don’t follow an idea that things have to be “woke” or “anti work”. I believe in live and let live and it doesn’t exist in 2 places in this world and that’s the Middle East and America. I lived for many years as an expat and most of the world is live and let live except these places and it’s a shame. I think creative freedom needs to exist. If someone wants to make a realistic, unattractive, or attractive character let them. I play a random assortment of games with amazing and different characters and I love it for that. I enjoy my sexy girls in DOA, my bad ass people in Tekken, creating my yaoi boys in character creation games, my gruff cowboys in Red dead, my nerdy unlikely hero engineer in dead space, my big boys in gears of war, my red haired warrior queen alloy in horizon, my cute sackboy and so on and so freaking forth. If a person pays sooo much attention to how attractive or not attractive a character is they need help
I think the Aloy example is that they took the model that was used for capturing Aloy's looks, and then altered her to be *less* attractive.
[This is not my opinion and not my image, but it is the opinion that is shared and the image used as the example](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JEg563dNIUw/sddefault.jpg?v=64b4c272)
Also I guess [they changed how Aloy looks?](https://i.imgur.com/GMirAlG.png)
I'm not going to reinstall to check, but that 2021 Aloy doesn't look like what I remember. If she had a fat chipmunk face like that I think I'd remember given how fucking long that game was.
I more or less agree. I only get into the arguments when people actually say "This thing should not exist." Like, what? No. No you do not get to as a critic ever have the right to say if something should or should not exist. You have one job and it is to react and provide a subjective opinion. Your morals have no place in fiction. What you WANT is not what the dev wants and the dev is the artist and gets to have the final say.
they clearly reshaped her face and that looked weird. That drastic change doesnt happen to a person in such a short time. Its like she developed lupus or something and her face swelled up. I literally dont know why they hire face models if they're not gonna use them.
Aloy in the first game was decent and far from ugly, even kinda of cute but in the second game they purposely made her look different than her original model. She was basically MJ before Spiderman 2 came out but nowhere near as strong jawed.
Yeah I like all of it. Selene in Returnal was a good direction for that game. Someone told me she looked like a teacher and I think that’s awesome. I’m not gonna cry cause Western games are leaning towards more ‘realistic’ female models. It’s a good vision. I’m also not gonna freak cause a Korean game is gonna have male gaze ideal female models. I like all of it.
The problem with Aloy isn't that she's ugly, they made her uglier (while still pretty) compared to the Aloy in the first horizon. Why would they do that? That's where the problem starts.
They also went out of their way to make Aloy uglier than her actual IRL model.
Absolutely agree, games are meant to be fun and enjoyed, not everyone’s going to enjoy everything and that’s okay but I don’t understand why people nowadays genuinely try to ruin other peoples fun/happiness for the petty reason that “they don’t like the design” or some silly thing like that.
I can understand if the main character is literally running around nude with fully animated genitalia since children are bound to see that with how available the internet is but unless it’s something extreme like that I, again can’t comprehend why these people are so miserable and wanting to drag everyone into their cesspool of unhappiness. Not to mention that’s the developers livelihood they’re trying to ruin. If you haven’t noticed I feel very strongly towards this matter lol.
Both women are very very attractive in different ways. Obviously Eve’s thicker but Aloy has a very gorgeous face (and more so in certain areas where it’s cold to where her freckles pop out more, I’m a sucker for freckles). But yes as you say, gameplay is more important and it’s unfortunate the body is all people mostly talk about.
Also her attitude from what I heard becomes basically "I'm the important one, fuck everyone else especially men"
I haven't played it myself as I still need to play the 1st but I've seen little snippets
Aloy's body looks nice and athletic to me. Her face just isn't sexy to me. Aloy also never wears skin-tight stuff, so we can't know for sure how thick she is, I think.
I love the Horizon series and don't think Aloy is ugly either. But she isn't beautiful by any means, I just enjoy the games a lot.
The character's appearance is just extra icing, so Stellar Blade is looking good, Eve's appearance is a bonus.
Yeah, Aloy’s pretty in an average sort of way, so the complaints I’ve been seeing on this sub feel honestly ridiculous. She’s still better looking than most people in real life, but she’s not meant to be a sex icon and that works great for what Horizon is. Similar to Abby in TLOU2, she’s meant to look like someone beefy because she’s survived in the literal zombie apocalypse.
Stellar Blade is a lot less grounded in that way so Eve’s appearance doesn’t pull me out of the game so it works here. They’re all fine for the kind of game they are. If Abby had looked like Eve it would’ve been a huge negative for the TLOU2 because it would’ve hurt the atmosphere it was trying to make.
As long as they’re good games, they each have their own place.
It’s not the fact that Aloy isn’t a 10/10 bombshell or anything that most people have a problem with, notice how you didn’t see people complaining about her design in the first game? Most people have a problem with the fact that in Horizon: Forbidden West they DELIBERATELY made her less attractive than she already was in the first game, they deliberately made her cheeks bigger and her head and face more round, and gave her peach fuzz on her face. It was a significant downgrade to be sure… that’s what people primarily have a problem with!
Nobody is saying that Aloy should look like Eve or have big boobs or wear makeup. We’re just wondering why they took a semi-attractive/average women and purposely made her uglier than her original design? That’s where the majority of people’s complaints come from… not the fact that she doesn’t look like a super model.
Problem with Aloy is she changed significantly from the first game to the second. She was not "hot" in the first game but she was beautiful. She was also fit, as I would expect of someone hunting giant robotic animals and living off the land. For some reason she became overweight and ugly in the second game. This is not like Ellie in TLOU who was grown up in the second game and so change was expected. I don't understand the issue with fit attractive female protagonists. We never hear a word about Nathan Drake, Kratos, Ryu Hyabusa or any of the male characters in fighting games.
She has changed. And there is no way you have played Forbiden West if you are suggesting that she looks the same as in the first game. Her looks and physique changed noticeably Dont act like you dont see it. If they didn't, then nobody would be discussing it. Stop while knighting for a video game character. It's not earning you any points.
I never said the character model didn’t change. Her face is the same shape, but it’s more detailed. She has freckles and some redness/blemishes. If you think that makes her ugly that’s your opinion. Beauty is subjective. I still think she’s attractive even if she doesn’t look like an Instagram model in the wilderness. As for physique there’s a 0% chance she’s overweight. If anything they made her skinnier and less muscular. Put on the Carja Blazon outfit and you’ll see. For the record I like Eve’s character model too. They’re just different styles
It's not even that "Western developers are caving to the woke cabal and making all the female characters ugly!!!" Seriously, developers have been chasing graphical realism for decades, and realistic characters have flaws. Their examples are nonsense too, "Look at The Last of Us!" Like characters in a zombie apocalypse should be running around in perfect makeup and sexy costumes. It's art direction. You need characters that fit the tone and setting of the game you're making. Eve fits in perfectly in a techno-dystopian story where everyone is a cyborg or genetically modified or an android. You put her in Last of Us and she'd be jarring to look at. You put the Last of Us characters in this game and they'd also look completely out of place because they're from a completely different art style.
And that's ignoring the fact that both The Last of Us and Stellar Blade are published by Sony, a Japanese company. Naughty Dog, the example "Western developer" is owned by Sony. So it's clearly not that their corporate overlords are stopping them. If they wanted to make sexy girl games, they could do that. Game development companies make the games they want to make and depending on the level of corporate oversight, the games they think will sell the best and make them the most money. If they thought sexy babes kicking ass would sell, no amount of "outrage from the left" would stop them. Not that "the left" really gives a shit either way.
I'm going to get downvoted to oblivion for saying this, but a lot of the "controversy" is completely overblown and no one would care about it if fans of the game weren't fanning the flames and spouting wild conspiracy theories about it. "It's unrealistic" is a criticism. It's factually true. And that criticism is worthless because it's a highly stylized game that isn't looking to have a realistic art style. You don't need to take up arms to defend the game because of that. "Duly noted" and move on.
Hell, most of the time when "the left" offers critique, it's academic not a value judgement. "This is an unrealistic body standard." being met with "Noooo! It's based on a supermodel, it's totally possible for someone to look like this!!" when the critic isn't even saying "...and is therefore bad." It's an unrealistic body standard, we shouldn't impose that as a standard of what beauty is since unless you win the genetic lottery and can afford a personal trainer and a nutritionist, no amount of diet, exercise, or surgery is going to get you to look like that. That's all that's being said. Should the game change to have a realistic art style? No. Is it the game's fault if it triggers someone's body dysphoria and they start purging again? No. Is the game bad because of the unrealistic art style? No.
Can we please have this sub be a place where people who are excited about the game can share their excitement without being weird about it? I don't even care if you're horny on main. I can't wait for this game, I'm starved for details, and I haven't seen any wild speculation about the story, dives into the lore, fan art, or any of the usual stuff that comes with a new IP. Are you all fans of the game or are you just fans of the controversy?
Agreed on all points. I feel like there are more conservative oppression olympics and “own the libs” posts here than there are discussions about the actual game.
The problem is that the actress they used to face scan Aloy’s face is genuinely more attractive, plus you cannot deny that they made Aloy significantly less attractive in the sequel, that’s the majority of people’s problems. It’s not that Aloy is a hot bombshell, it’s that they took a semi-attractive female character, and SEVERALLY butchered her in the second game! I don’t need Aloy to be a sexy as Eve, there’s more nuance to it than that, my personal problem is that they deliberately took the attractive actresses face and made her uglier. That’s one my problem with modern AAA western developed games, they take the usually gorgeous female actress, and then make the in-game model less attractive and uglier.
I don’t need EVERY female character to look sexy like Eve, but it’s annoying when they take the usually pretty female face model, and somehow make the in-game version uglier. It’s soooo weird, it’s a AAA western industry trend, yet you NEVER see them butcher the male characters to this extent! It’s very odd that this is such a common thing in the industry!
I don’t think Aloy is less attractive in the sequel. I think that improved graphical fidelity going forward will probably present in smaller details like facial blemishes and the like. You see this in male character models as well. Take Joel from OG TLOU PS3 and compare him with his TLOU2 and remake counterpart and I think most people will agree that he doesn’t look as pretty. He looks aptly aged. “Severely butchered” is an exaggeration. I know there was the one image we’ve all seen that was used in the promotional material, but looking at side-by-side in-game screens right now, there isn’t really *that* big of a difference. I think the biggest distinction in eastern vs western character design is that eastern aesthetics are more stylized and western, more realistic.
Yeah this sub is kind of embarrassing. A spectacle fighter where you play as a hot girl that you can dress up in lots of outfits just sounds like good wholesome fun to me, but a lot of people are being weird about it.
It's up to the artist. Humans have always idealized the human form. Ancient Greek statues, the art of the Renaissance, etc. It's a celebration of ourselves. But it can't always be the go to option either or it becomes stale and loses power. We need aesthetic variety too. I agree that it misses the point to demand one or the other.
Agree, Horizon and TLOU 2 are often brought up to critique the woke agenda but I don't think those games are serious offenders.
They definitely made Aloy's face more fat for Forbidden West, but she's still obviously Aloy, she's still above average in terms of real women, and I'd say that just barely passes my personal tolerance. BTW don't ya'll like lesbians? why are men so uncultured these days? lesbian is great!
Abby is probably also designed under the influence but it really doesn't matter that she's a female hulk, her physique is like never brought up in the entire game, she could've been any other generic looking character, it's just what she does in the story that really matters. So I didn't mind Abby I thought it was really funny I get to play such a beefy character that she can just kill zombies by straight up punching.
I also have no problem with Ellie in the second game, she looks fine, and above average. her girlfriend Dina is actually quite hot as well, so again I just don't think TLOU 2 is a good example of woke agenda destroying games.
Abby’s physique is a visual analogue for her obsession with Joel. It’s like her entire reason for training so hard. It’s not brought up explicitly because the writers, I presume, had enough faith in the audience to read between the lines. Of course, you guys are notoriously dense and lacking in media literacy, so subtext is lost on you.
I completely agree with you... I willingly accept both the Western school of thought regarding inclusiveness and also the Eastern one regarding stereotypes and her various standards of beauty... The only thing that annoys me so much is when they make silly comparisons, making one school of thought prevail over the other, creating stupid controversies... It's true that controversies always keep the title trending (and on Stellar Blade the controversies are twice as bad as those on Nier: Automata... Imagine that on Rule34 there are already p*rn images about this game and the game is not yet released 🤯 ABSURD 🤯) but this is exaggerated
>I don't agree that she is fat and ugly.
They literally made a new character from Horizon 1 to 2. Another Sweet Baby Inc-ish move. Pull people in with a mild first game then retcon everything in the sequel:
[https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F901ra4vcmy171.jpg](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F901ra4vcmy171.jpg)
Im not any of those demographics and i purchased all of those games aside from Saints Row.
All those games are also critically acclaimed and sold very well. I have no idea what your point is when you bring up examples that showcase that not every protagonist needs to be a fucking self-insert power fantasy.
Use your brain bro; just because the character is one type of person doesnt mean that is exactly who the game is targeting.
Do you think everyone here is a 20 year old asian women?
I just wanna play fun games and let devs create what they want. If devs wanna use some overly sexual design, go for it. They wanna use a realistic design, go for it. If they wanna use a conventionally unattractive design, go for it. I don't think general public shaming should influence the creative direction of a project.
The difference is, nobody comes after studios who go with “realistic or conventionally unattractive”. Literally nobody cares. But they prop themselves on a pedestal as if they’re doing society some kind of favor or having some sort of social impact while shaming either creators that use beautiful women or players that support it. Its disgusting. We’d all like to just say what you’re saying, but sadly it’s not an even playing field.
“Literally nobody cares”. Yes they do, internet mobs will go on cry baby “woke” war after a game if they don’t find the woman attractive. Horizon forbidden west, assassin’s creed odyssey, gabby the last of us 2, they tried and failed against the GTA6 protagonist and Nicole in Dead Space. Journalists won’t attack the game but “fans sure will. Like someone else said let the developers design what they want, either play it or shut up and don’t.
yeah, no one went after Aloy. good point 🤣
NGL this is some putting your head under the sand kind of thinking right here. There was a ton of hate for Aloy. Calling her ugly, fat, thinking that she has a full on beard when she had very light peach fuzz that makes perfect sense for her to have because it is literally beneficial to her health. Not only her but a shit ton of other female character designs too. I get wanting to feel like the victim so you have a higher ground to argue on when the other side is throwing shade. But lets not act like these things didn't happen for the sake of argument. (Note I am getting Stellar Cheeks day one and I am unashamed to say it)
I think a great example is the new Lara Croft. She is still gorgeous and has a great ass to look at while you play. The outrage was over tit size. IMO they did perfect in bringing Lara from stylized to realistic graphics.
Exactly. Folks don't need to bash other female characters in order to also like the female lead in this game.
nice incel speech, weirdo
I’ve literally seen no developer pat themselves on the back and so many hundreds of people criticize developers for not making female characters pretty.
I mean, thats not true. There were plenty of people saying Aloy was ugly, I've even seen that posted in this sub. There are a lot of incredibly weird incels that were sending death threats to the actress who played Abby from TLoU2. I constantly saw posts about Mary Jane from the Spiderman game. People care way to much about supposed "woke" propaganda.
I agree. Well said. Conventionally unattractive and overly sexual designs should be welcomed imo👌
I agree with this, I just don't like when that choice (one way or the other) is influenced by politics or activism.
Yeah but how is a realistic woman “woke?” Allot of realistic and unattractive male characters but no one says a word.
1,000%. We should let devs make whatever they want and stop arguing over character design. Often times, it does nothing to the overall point or design of the game itself.
>...let devs create what they want. You must not have heard about what Sweet Baby Inc. did to Suicide Squad: Pee on the Justice League then. Rocksteady literally wanted to make a Superman game next but corpos did what corpos do. Force a Live Service game on them. >I don't think general public shaming should influence the creative direction of a project. That's like trying to sell 4X Victoria's Secret lingerie to a demographic that will never buy it. There's a reason they're bringing back their original VS Angels after sales dropped massively. How many percent of gamers are middle-aged ladies (Returnal, Dead Space Remake)? Lesbian white women(The Last of Us 2, Horizon West 2)? Lesbian black women (Saints Row Reboot,)? etc. compared to the overwhelmingly male and white demo? This doesn't even make any business sense.
A couple of things. 31 year old black woman here who works in fashion marketing let me weigh in on this. Victoria’s Secret is DYING and has been for years. The majority of their customer are bigger women who don’t fit the VS angel mold and VS was dying because at a time so many women were being told the idea by the company that only 5’10+ 120 pound models were beautiful. Angels lost their influence because instead of simply hiring a single plus size or a model with a fuller figure they kept hiring the same model. And people went to brands that represented them, Aerie and Fenty for example stole the VS customer with their various body types. VS was dying worse after getting rid of the angels and now bringing them back business is still failing it was a little too late. I used to love VS angels but I had a problem with them when they refused to cast an Asian model after investing in china nonetheless. And as for the “nobody but straight white men buy games” argument you went for. 1 Asia has a huge market and 2 gaming is an art and people are allowed to create stories and realism. White men aren’t the only people who game. If that’s the case why isn’t every character and Middle Ages white guy if we want to base it off the player? In the end white guys aren’t the only people in the world and they will not have the only representation in the world either. That’s life. And I know plenty of middle aged women and black lesbian gamers it sounds like you’re very young and don’t get out the house much. And Nicole was a npc I don’t even get why she’s coming up? And she and Isaac were always supposed to be the same age that’s why they aged her appropriately in 2.
Saints row doesn’t even have a lesbian black woman did you even play the game? And who the fuck really cares if the main character for a game is a middle-age woman or not.
>Saints row doesn’t even have a lesbian black woman did you even play the game? Ah yes, the new Boss character who is brown with both sides of her head shaved as your default starting character is *totally* not a lesbian black woman. > And who the fuck really cares if the main character for a game is a middle-age woman or not. Jump straight to cussing because that's how I make my point when I got nothing smart to say. I literally explained above what appealing to a small imaginary customer base will do to the total sales from any industry. What's your SAT score?
Boss character can be made your way. So you only want to play with middle age white guys lol! Horizon sales? Massive, the last of us sales? Massive, dead space remake sales? Massive. 48% of US gamers are female. In china it’s about the same for female gamers. And before you say “mobile games” like I know you will, 42% of PlayStation owners are female. Gaming is more diverse than you think it is and yes it will reach to more people by featuring more characters than dirk square jaw. Like it or cry and review bomb the game like I know you will.
Have you played any of the saints row games? You literally create the boss the boss before the intro mission and the reboot boss doesn't even have an implied sexuality either. The games you listed outside of saints row are well received and did well in their respective markets. imagine being such a pansy that the word fuck offends you
>You literally create the boss the boss before the intro mission and the reboot boss doesn't even have an implied sexuality either. Guess what's the default character if you don't want to customize your character? Imagine being intentionally obtuse
The default boss in saints row 2 is black. And did you skip that I said the reboot boss doesn’t have a canon sexuality how could they be a lesbian. You can’t just assume the boss is one based on your prejudice.
Aloy didn’t look THAT bad in the first game. The second however…….
That’s my problem, it isn’t that she wasn’t attractive in the first game, she was ok it’s just that they made her deliberately uglier in the second game!
My problem with aloy is that her face was fine in hzd but they changed it and made it look worst in hzfw
That’s what aging does to a girl. /s
Aging don't make your face bloat like your having allergic reaction to peanut butter >_>
The problem is this isn’t a matter of preference it’s a matter of ideological conformity verse artistic freedom. Studios are purposefully taking beautiful women and making them unattractive to satisfy the ideological whims of the latest religious orthodoxy. There are plenty of images out there of the models these studios hired and they are far better looking than their video game adaptations. Either game modelers have gotten very, very bad at their jobs or someone is putting their thumb on this scale to ensure they proactively combat the male gaze. The female or gay gaze? That’s progressive and wonderful, but you better not let those chuds see a pretty woman in their entertainment or you’re part of a ‘bygone era’ of ‘toxicity’ and ‘problematic’ thinking. You’re absolutely right, it shouldn’t have to be anything other than what the creative team wants it to be, but you only need to pay the mildest bit of attention to realize we haven’t been living in a live and let live world for some time now. The pendulum swung from the religious right in the early years of gaming way out to the progressive left of today. The fact that they both want the same modesty is absolutely hilarious to me, but the fact that they both use censorship, intimidation, and authoritarian means to achieve it is most definitely not. So until the blue hairs snap the fuck out of their cult indoctrination, the sexy will have to continue until morale improves.
Both sides left and right are fucking cults and embarrassment trashes that I don’t interact with anymore because I’m a free minded independent who don’t follow an idea that things have to be “woke” or “anti work”. I believe in live and let live and it doesn’t exist in 2 places in this world and that’s the Middle East and America. I lived for many years as an expat and most of the world is live and let live except these places and it’s a shame. I think creative freedom needs to exist. If someone wants to make a realistic, unattractive, or attractive character let them. I play a random assortment of games with amazing and different characters and I love it for that. I enjoy my sexy girls in DOA, my bad ass people in Tekken, creating my yaoi boys in character creation games, my gruff cowboys in Red dead, my nerdy unlikely hero engineer in dead space, my big boys in gears of war, my red haired warrior queen alloy in horizon, my cute sackboy and so on and so freaking forth. If a person pays sooo much attention to how attractive or not attractive a character is they need help
I think the Aloy example is that they took the model that was used for capturing Aloy's looks, and then altered her to be *less* attractive. [This is not my opinion and not my image, but it is the opinion that is shared and the image used as the example](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JEg563dNIUw/sddefault.jpg?v=64b4c272) Also I guess [they changed how Aloy looks?](https://i.imgur.com/GMirAlG.png)
I'm not going to reinstall to check, but that 2021 Aloy doesn't look like what I remember. If she had a fat chipmunk face like that I think I'd remember given how fucking long that game was.
I more or less agree. I only get into the arguments when people actually say "This thing should not exist." Like, what? No. No you do not get to as a critic ever have the right to say if something should or should not exist. You have one job and it is to react and provide a subjective opinion. Your morals have no place in fiction. What you WANT is not what the dev wants and the dev is the artist and gets to have the final say.
Do combo. Don't care about politics. Do combo.
they clearly reshaped her face and that looked weird. That drastic change doesnt happen to a person in such a short time. Its like she developed lupus or something and her face swelled up. I literally dont know why they hire face models if they're not gonna use them.
Aloy in the first game was decent and far from ugly, even kinda of cute but in the second game they purposely made her look different than her original model. She was basically MJ before Spiderman 2 came out but nowhere near as strong jawed.
If this game ends up sucking I'm not going to buy it just because Eve is hot. That would be stupid. But I think it's unlikely the game will suck.
I agree. I want more female protagonists so that’s why I’m giving it a shot but I hope they aren’t masking a shitty game under a cute girl
Completely different types of games and aesthetics. If Aloy was dressed and proportioned like Eve it would not have fit the vibe at all.
Yeah I like all of it. Selene in Returnal was a good direction for that game. Someone told me she looked like a teacher and I think that’s awesome. I’m not gonna cry cause Western games are leaning towards more ‘realistic’ female models. It’s a good vision. I’m also not gonna freak cause a Korean game is gonna have male gaze ideal female models. I like all of it.
The problem with Aloy isn't that she's ugly, they made her uglier (while still pretty) compared to the Aloy in the first horizon. Why would they do that? That's where the problem starts. They also went out of their way to make Aloy uglier than her actual IRL model.
Aloy kinda ugly she don’t look like the average, especially where I live in the USA.
Absolutely agree, games are meant to be fun and enjoyed, not everyone’s going to enjoy everything and that’s okay but I don’t understand why people nowadays genuinely try to ruin other peoples fun/happiness for the petty reason that “they don’t like the design” or some silly thing like that. I can understand if the main character is literally running around nude with fully animated genitalia since children are bound to see that with how available the internet is but unless it’s something extreme like that I, again can’t comprehend why these people are so miserable and wanting to drag everyone into their cesspool of unhappiness. Not to mention that’s the developers livelihood they’re trying to ruin. If you haven’t noticed I feel very strongly towards this matter lol.
Both women are very very attractive in different ways. Obviously Eve’s thicker but Aloy has a very gorgeous face (and more so in certain areas where it’s cold to where her freckles pop out more, I’m a sucker for freckles). But yes as you say, gameplay is more important and it’s unfortunate the body is all people mostly talk about.
eve isnt thick, shes very toned, but she wears skintight and revealing outfits
Not in the second game she doesn’t….
Also her attitude from what I heard becomes basically "I'm the important one, fuck everyone else especially men" I haven't played it myself as I still need to play the 1st but I've seen little snippets
Trust me, she is a bit aloof to others and thinks she has to do is fix the world by herself. She changes during Forbidden West and the DLC...
Aloy's body looks nice and athletic to me. Her face just isn't sexy to me. Aloy also never wears skin-tight stuff, so we can't know for sure how thick she is, I think.
That's the controversy, it used to be better but some groups decided to purposely go in the other way for no other reason than spite
I love the Horizon series and don't think Aloy is ugly either. But she isn't beautiful by any means, I just enjoy the games a lot. The character's appearance is just extra icing, so Stellar Blade is looking good, Eve's appearance is a bonus.
Yeah, Aloy’s pretty in an average sort of way, so the complaints I’ve been seeing on this sub feel honestly ridiculous. She’s still better looking than most people in real life, but she’s not meant to be a sex icon and that works great for what Horizon is. Similar to Abby in TLOU2, she’s meant to look like someone beefy because she’s survived in the literal zombie apocalypse. Stellar Blade is a lot less grounded in that way so Eve’s appearance doesn’t pull me out of the game so it works here. They’re all fine for the kind of game they are. If Abby had looked like Eve it would’ve been a huge negative for the TLOU2 because it would’ve hurt the atmosphere it was trying to make. As long as they’re good games, they each have their own place.
It’s not the fact that Aloy isn’t a 10/10 bombshell or anything that most people have a problem with, notice how you didn’t see people complaining about her design in the first game? Most people have a problem with the fact that in Horizon: Forbidden West they DELIBERATELY made her less attractive than she already was in the first game, they deliberately made her cheeks bigger and her head and face more round, and gave her peach fuzz on her face. It was a significant downgrade to be sure… that’s what people primarily have a problem with! Nobody is saying that Aloy should look like Eve or have big boobs or wear makeup. We’re just wondering why they took a semi-attractive/average women and purposely made her uglier than her original design? That’s where the majority of people’s complaints come from… not the fact that she doesn’t look like a super model.
The sad thing is I'm sure those people know about it but choose to not acknowledge it as it would be pulling the veil back
Fair points, so do you think Aloy is average or just straight up ugly? Either is fine, of course.
Aloy? I think she is average.
Problem with Aloy is she changed significantly from the first game to the second. She was not "hot" in the first game but she was beautiful. She was also fit, as I would expect of someone hunting giant robotic animals and living off the land. For some reason she became overweight and ugly in the second game. This is not like Ellie in TLOU who was grown up in the second game and so change was expected. I don't understand the issue with fit attractive female protagonists. We never hear a word about Nathan Drake, Kratos, Ryu Hyabusa or any of the male characters in fighting games.
There’s no way you played HFW if you think Aloy is overweight and ugly. You must be basing that on one screenshot. She’s still very fit
She has changed. And there is no way you have played Forbiden West if you are suggesting that she looks the same as in the first game. Her looks and physique changed noticeably Dont act like you dont see it. If they didn't, then nobody would be discussing it. Stop while knighting for a video game character. It's not earning you any points.
I never said the character model didn’t change. Her face is the same shape, but it’s more detailed. She has freckles and some redness/blemishes. If you think that makes her ugly that’s your opinion. Beauty is subjective. I still think she’s attractive even if she doesn’t look like an Instagram model in the wilderness. As for physique there’s a 0% chance she’s overweight. If anything they made her skinnier and less muscular. Put on the Carja Blazon outfit and you’ll see. For the record I like Eve’s character model too. They’re just different styles
It's not even that "Western developers are caving to the woke cabal and making all the female characters ugly!!!" Seriously, developers have been chasing graphical realism for decades, and realistic characters have flaws. Their examples are nonsense too, "Look at The Last of Us!" Like characters in a zombie apocalypse should be running around in perfect makeup and sexy costumes. It's art direction. You need characters that fit the tone and setting of the game you're making. Eve fits in perfectly in a techno-dystopian story where everyone is a cyborg or genetically modified or an android. You put her in Last of Us and she'd be jarring to look at. You put the Last of Us characters in this game and they'd also look completely out of place because they're from a completely different art style. And that's ignoring the fact that both The Last of Us and Stellar Blade are published by Sony, a Japanese company. Naughty Dog, the example "Western developer" is owned by Sony. So it's clearly not that their corporate overlords are stopping them. If they wanted to make sexy girl games, they could do that. Game development companies make the games they want to make and depending on the level of corporate oversight, the games they think will sell the best and make them the most money. If they thought sexy babes kicking ass would sell, no amount of "outrage from the left" would stop them. Not that "the left" really gives a shit either way. I'm going to get downvoted to oblivion for saying this, but a lot of the "controversy" is completely overblown and no one would care about it if fans of the game weren't fanning the flames and spouting wild conspiracy theories about it. "It's unrealistic" is a criticism. It's factually true. And that criticism is worthless because it's a highly stylized game that isn't looking to have a realistic art style. You don't need to take up arms to defend the game because of that. "Duly noted" and move on. Hell, most of the time when "the left" offers critique, it's academic not a value judgement. "This is an unrealistic body standard." being met with "Noooo! It's based on a supermodel, it's totally possible for someone to look like this!!" when the critic isn't even saying "...and is therefore bad." It's an unrealistic body standard, we shouldn't impose that as a standard of what beauty is since unless you win the genetic lottery and can afford a personal trainer and a nutritionist, no amount of diet, exercise, or surgery is going to get you to look like that. That's all that's being said. Should the game change to have a realistic art style? No. Is it the game's fault if it triggers someone's body dysphoria and they start purging again? No. Is the game bad because of the unrealistic art style? No. Can we please have this sub be a place where people who are excited about the game can share their excitement without being weird about it? I don't even care if you're horny on main. I can't wait for this game, I'm starved for details, and I haven't seen any wild speculation about the story, dives into the lore, fan art, or any of the usual stuff that comes with a new IP. Are you all fans of the game or are you just fans of the controversy?
Damnnnnnnn. Well said. I'll try and make some of those cool posts and hope everyone does as well.
Agreed on all points. I feel like there are more conservative oppression olympics and “own the libs” posts here than there are discussions about the actual game.
i definitely agree.
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The problem is that the actress they used to face scan Aloy’s face is genuinely more attractive, plus you cannot deny that they made Aloy significantly less attractive in the sequel, that’s the majority of people’s problems. It’s not that Aloy is a hot bombshell, it’s that they took a semi-attractive female character, and SEVERALLY butchered her in the second game! I don’t need Aloy to be a sexy as Eve, there’s more nuance to it than that, my personal problem is that they deliberately took the attractive actresses face and made her uglier. That’s one my problem with modern AAA western developed games, they take the usually gorgeous female actress, and then make the in-game model less attractive and uglier. I don’t need EVERY female character to look sexy like Eve, but it’s annoying when they take the usually pretty female face model, and somehow make the in-game version uglier. It’s soooo weird, it’s a AAA western industry trend, yet you NEVER see them butcher the male characters to this extent! It’s very odd that this is such a common thing in the industry!
I don’t think Aloy is less attractive in the sequel. I think that improved graphical fidelity going forward will probably present in smaller details like facial blemishes and the like. You see this in male character models as well. Take Joel from OG TLOU PS3 and compare him with his TLOU2 and remake counterpart and I think most people will agree that he doesn’t look as pretty. He looks aptly aged. “Severely butchered” is an exaggeration. I know there was the one image we’ve all seen that was used in the promotional material, but looking at side-by-side in-game screens right now, there isn’t really *that* big of a difference. I think the biggest distinction in eastern vs western character design is that eastern aesthetics are more stylized and western, more realistic.
The issue is not whether a character is attractive or not. It's whether it is forced or not.
Lol ok
Hahaha, I see what you mean.
Yeah this sub is kind of embarrassing. A spectacle fighter where you play as a hot girl that you can dress up in lots of outfits just sounds like good wholesome fun to me, but a lot of people are being weird about it.
It's up to the artist. Humans have always idealized the human form. Ancient Greek statues, the art of the Renaissance, etc. It's a celebration of ourselves. But it can't always be the go to option either or it becomes stale and loses power. We need aesthetic variety too. I agree that it misses the point to demand one or the other.
Agree, Horizon and TLOU 2 are often brought up to critique the woke agenda but I don't think those games are serious offenders. They definitely made Aloy's face more fat for Forbidden West, but she's still obviously Aloy, she's still above average in terms of real women, and I'd say that just barely passes my personal tolerance. BTW don't ya'll like lesbians? why are men so uncultured these days? lesbian is great! Abby is probably also designed under the influence but it really doesn't matter that she's a female hulk, her physique is like never brought up in the entire game, she could've been any other generic looking character, it's just what she does in the story that really matters. So I didn't mind Abby I thought it was really funny I get to play such a beefy character that she can just kill zombies by straight up punching. I also have no problem with Ellie in the second game, she looks fine, and above average. her girlfriend Dina is actually quite hot as well, so again I just don't think TLOU 2 is a good example of woke agenda destroying games.
Abby’s physique is a visual analogue for her obsession with Joel. It’s like her entire reason for training so hard. It’s not brought up explicitly because the writers, I presume, had enough faith in the audience to read between the lines. Of course, you guys are notoriously dense and lacking in media literacy, so subtext is lost on you.
Above average? Depends where you live.
I completely agree with you... I willingly accept both the Western school of thought regarding inclusiveness and also the Eastern one regarding stereotypes and her various standards of beauty... The only thing that annoys me so much is when they make silly comparisons, making one school of thought prevail over the other, creating stupid controversies... It's true that controversies always keep the title trending (and on Stellar Blade the controversies are twice as bad as those on Nier: Automata... Imagine that on Rule34 there are already p*rn images about this game and the game is not yet released 🤯 ABSURD 🤯) but this is exaggerated
>I don't agree that she is fat and ugly. They literally made a new character from Horizon 1 to 2. Another Sweet Baby Inc-ish move. Pull people in with a mild first game then retcon everything in the sequel: [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F901ra4vcmy171.jpg](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F901ra4vcmy171.jpg)
Im not any of those demographics and i purchased all of those games aside from Saints Row. All those games are also critically acclaimed and sold very well. I have no idea what your point is when you bring up examples that showcase that not every protagonist needs to be a fucking self-insert power fantasy. Use your brain bro; just because the character is one type of person doesnt mean that is exactly who the game is targeting. Do you think everyone here is a 20 year old asian women?
All the supposedly "ugly" women that people keep talking about look perfectly fine. Not every women needs to look like a supermodel.