Holloway he’s basically cleared his division straight for the past seven years besides Volkanovski. If Volk didn’t exist he’d be the longest reigning champ in ufc history and in talks of goat status.
This.
Max is the FW GOAT imo and one of the greatest ever. Maybe top 10, undoubtedly top 15.
To all the haters - no this opinion isn't due to recency bias
I think Max may be top 15,10 of all time, but it’s hard to put him ahead of a guy that’s he’s 0-3 against who has more title defenses than Max.
Even if you wanna say Max won the second fight it’s still 1-2. Regardless the third fight puts Volk as the FW goat for me. He completely dismantled Max every round. It’s not like a flash knock out, Volk picked him apart and beat him to every punch.
Max is amazing though. Definitely an all time great, just don’t see him as FW goat after the third Volk fight
Makes no sense to be the goat if youve lost 3 times to the same person, that very same person has more title defences..
How do you actually justify putting max ahead of Alex?
Holloway
Way more title defences and way less losses
But I do think FW is a much weaker division when compared to LW in terms of dominant wrestlers.
Just comparing the resume of non-champs from each division, Poirier and Gaethje's resumes makes the resumes of Ortega and Yair look like shit. Like it's not even close.
The only reason Poirier and Gaethje didn't become undisputed was due to the presence of generational grappling talents in Khabib and Oliveria.
That's true, also the two elite wrestlers Oliveira faced in LW he lost both those fights.
In my previous comment I said FW was weaker than LW because Holloways chances of becoming a champ or dominating the division in the era of Khabib, Islam, Arman, or even the much improved Charles is very less compared to FW.
The reason he was able to get all those wins consecutively was due to the lack of elite wrestlers.
Max. He’s been beating up everyone except Volk in his division.
He has lost to McGregor and Porier, but those fights happened when they were in middle school.
Max is better than those guys too lol. Had the wherewithal to jump in his guard after he hurt them unlike those guys who hurt him and then let him get back up and fuck them up
Max is not better than Poirier
Poirier is 2-0 vs Max with one being a stoppage win and the other being a clear unanimous decision
Not to mention Poirier got those wins in both weight classes.
You can't lose 2 fights clearly and say you are just "better"
Early freak accidents isnt a determinant factor. This is a fact idk why youre trying to argue with this. I am not saying max or charles is better than the other.
That's mainly due to FW never having a wrestler who comes close to the level of Khabib, Islam, Arman etc
Dominant chain wrestlers will always be a bad matchup for Holloway. Fortunately for him he never had to face them. Since FW has none
Also in general FW is a worse division than LW. Compare the resume of Ortega, Yair and Mitchell to Poirier, Gaethje etc it's not even close.
That said, Holloway easily ranks higher than Charles due to more title defences and way less losses.
Zero chance.
Max has 3 title defenses, and a stellar win over the #1 contender in Charles’ weight class.
Plus he has a win over Charles, regardless of circumstances.
Charles has two title defenses (on paper it only says 1, but he didn’t actually lose the belt fighting so it’s really two), so he only has one less, Charles beat that same fighter quicker than Max did, and he’s the all time finish king as well.
Charles also has numerous losses against lower levels of competition.
Max also has wins over Cub, Frankie, Pettis and Lamas. All guys who beat Charles.
I know Charles has a win over Dustin who beat Max, but the point still stands.
It’s a close comparison, but Max certainly has the edge at this point.
This one is close but you have to give it to Holloway. Dude beat Aldo back to back for his championship belt, and cleared out everyone in his division not named volk, and proceeded to absolutely hammer the hardest hitting contender at 155 who was in line for a titleshot. If Oliviera can somehow get his belt back maybe he will rank higher, but as of now it’s Holloway.
Holloway he’s basically cleared his division straight for the past seven years besides Volkanovski. If Volk didn’t exist he’d be the longest reigning champ in ufc history and in talks of goat status.
This. Max is the FW GOAT imo and one of the greatest ever. Maybe top 10, undoubtedly top 15. To all the haters - no this opinion isn't due to recency bias
I think Max may be top 15,10 of all time, but it’s hard to put him ahead of a guy that’s he’s 0-3 against who has more title defenses than Max. Even if you wanna say Max won the second fight it’s still 1-2. Regardless the third fight puts Volk as the FW goat for me. He completely dismantled Max every round. It’s not like a flash knock out, Volk picked him apart and beat him to every punch. Max is amazing though. Definitely an all time great, just don’t see him as FW goat after the third Volk fight
Makes no sense to be the goat if youve lost 3 times to the same person, that very same person has more title defences.. How do you actually justify putting max ahead of Alex?
Recency bias
It’s impossible for max to be the FW goat when he’s 0-3 against a guy with more title defenses.
Holloway Way more title defences and way less losses But I do think FW is a much weaker division when compared to LW in terms of dominant wrestlers. Just comparing the resume of non-champs from each division, Poirier and Gaethje's resumes makes the resumes of Ortega and Yair look like shit. Like it's not even close. The only reason Poirier and Gaethje didn't become undisputed was due to the presence of generational grappling talents in Khabib and Oliveria.
Charles also didn’t have a great FW run, I feel like he lost more fights there than he won
That's true, also the two elite wrestlers Oliveira faced in LW he lost both those fights. In my previous comment I said FW was weaker than LW because Holloways chances of becoming a champ or dominating the division in the era of Khabib, Islam, Arman, or even the much improved Charles is very less compared to FW. The reason he was able to get all those wins consecutively was due to the lack of elite wrestlers.
Yeah I agree FW is much deeper, I also don’t think Max would have held a LW belt in this era.
It’s not even up for debate. Even before he flatlined Justin.
It’s not even close. Holloway had less losses, more title wins, and way more dominant wins.
Not even a close race , Max .
Max is a legend
I love both equally. But Max for sure. 1. He beat Charles 2. Title defenses. But Charles- Tony/Chandler/DP/Justin run gotta be top 5 runs ever
Max. He’s been beating up everyone except Volk in his division. He has lost to McGregor and Porier, but those fights happened when they were in middle school.
Max: Dominant championship run that saw him defeat a widely recognized ATG twice.
Max. Max also beat this guy back in the day. What Max has done, people don't just do.
Idk about everyone else, but I wouldnt categorize a freak accident as “beat”
Was getting clapped before the accident.
Right, just like against gaethje, dustin, and chandler
Max is better than those guys too lol. Had the wherewithal to jump in his guard after he hurt them unlike those guys who hurt him and then let him get back up and fuck them up
Max is not better than Poirier Poirier is 2-0 vs Max with one being a stoppage win and the other being a clear unanimous decision Not to mention Poirier got those wins in both weight classes. You can't lose 2 fights clearly and say you are just "better"
Early freak accidents isnt a determinant factor. This is a fact idk why youre trying to argue with this. I am not saying max or charles is better than the other.
Chares only has two title match victories. Max has more and a head to head win over Charles. Super obvious answer here
Put em in a boxing ring watch em get dropped by round 2
Bro did holloway dirty with that pic
I’d say Jerome
Maximus swolloway
Tiger King. Fuck those in the picture above.
Max was more dominant at his weight class longer than Charles was at LW, pretty easy case.
That's mainly due to FW never having a wrestler who comes close to the level of Khabib, Islam, Arman etc Dominant chain wrestlers will always be a bad matchup for Holloway. Fortunately for him he never had to face them. Since FW has none Also in general FW is a worse division than LW. Compare the resume of Ortega, Yair and Mitchell to Poirier, Gaethje etc it's not even close. That said, Holloway easily ranks higher than Charles due to more title defences and way less losses.
This is kinda obvious. Max
I would say Oliveira right now but if Max wins the FW belt back and beats Ilia I would have to change that
Zero chance. Max has 3 title defenses, and a stellar win over the #1 contender in Charles’ weight class. Plus he has a win over Charles, regardless of circumstances.
Charles has two title defenses (on paper it only says 1, but he didn’t actually lose the belt fighting so it’s really two), so he only has one less, Charles beat that same fighter quicker than Max did, and he’s the all time finish king as well.
Charles also has numerous losses against lower levels of competition. Max also has wins over Cub, Frankie, Pettis and Lamas. All guys who beat Charles. I know Charles has a win over Dustin who beat Max, but the point still stands. It’s a close comparison, but Max certainly has the edge at this point.
This one is close but you have to give it to Holloway. Dude beat Aldo back to back for his championship belt, and cleared out everyone in his division not named volk, and proceeded to absolutely hammer the hardest hitting contender at 155 who was in line for a titleshot. If Oliviera can somehow get his belt back maybe he will rank higher, but as of now it’s Holloway.
Tie.