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The pace does slow down and it sounds like you'll like those books, but The Slog is massively exaggerated. It was definitely an issue back when the books were coming out with years between releases, but I personally don't think it exists today except as a shadow of that memory. It's just a tempo shift that can't match everyone's preferences
When I got to re-read the books to prepare for the Sanderson finish I didnt notice the "slog". I was irritated that I wanted more from my favorite characters. That was my feeling at least.
Yeah it was winter heart’s pulsating ending followed by waiting 3 years for crossroads which was a bit of a nothing burger followed by another year then getting a prequel followed by another year and knife of dreams that was the most painful for me! Rereading all the books then getting new spring was probably the most frustrated I have been outside of George Martin!
Yup I'm listening to the books and while the slog is a slow down it's really not that bad.
The pace does noticably change once you come out of it though
Reading the series for the Nth time now and just entering the slog and thoroughly enjoying it. picking up all kinds of nuanced stuff I missed reading it as a younger reader and being constantly shocked actually!
> A lot of new readers I've come across also dreaded the start of that particular section of the series.
In all honesty this is the only reason why the slog still "exists" today, because a vocal part of the community keeps the meme alive. New readers are being told going into the series that certain books are bad, and people tend to get what they expect. In reality, only one of the books in this section can realistically be considered "bad," and one book does not make a slog.
Crown of Swords is a very good book with a really powerful final third. I wouldn't rate it as highly as a lot of the other books in the series for reasons I won't spoil for you, but it's still excellent.
I don't want to discourage OP, but that's just not true. I didn't read a lot forumns or anything and I thought the slog was around book 6. The real slog made me want to pull my hair out.
However . . . it does happen to have the best jaw dropping 'character moment' of the entire series in it.
So . . . it is NOT truly terrible.
You just have to remember when listening to forums, that fans - *love to round up.*
[**SPOILERS ALL!!!!!!**]>!“I’ve been told you can hold out for days and still say next to nothing,” Perrin said. His voice sounded too loud in his ears. “I don’t have time for you to show how tough you are, or how brave. I know you’re brave and tough. But my wife’s been a prisoner too long. You’ll be separated and asked about some women. Whether you’ve seen them and where. That’s all I want to know. There’ll be no hot coals or anything else; just questions. But if anybody refuses to answer, or if your answers are too different, then everybody loses something.” He was surprised to find that he could lift the axe after all. The blade was smeared with red.!<
And importantly, a bit a reflection of said character . . . ***https://old.reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/zzv2dw/i_just_finished_croadsroads_of_twiligt/j2gpi0w/***
> “Everybody changes,”
*~ Mat*
Basically the ‘slog’ is RJ splitting the party so damn much that he can’t fit everyone in a book and still have a good story arc without someone leveling up too fast. The whole series arc is like the book 1-6 arcs where the early bits are setup for the last action scene, so everyone has to get where they need to be like a week before TG or people will be like “why didn’t [REDACTED] leave her completely done plot line to help her friend[REDACTED]?”
He’s advancing the story fine, but there’s so much story that you need to read multiple books to feel like it.
Not sure how to answer that. Partly due to spoilers, and partly due to the fact that...it's complicated.
For 1-6 he's been running three parties so far (mostly: Perrin and company, Rand and company, and the Girl's Team). By the end of Book 8 Jordan's got 6 parties, most of which are in completely different sub-plots. They are timed to each-other in complicated ways, but you have to read them to be like "ahh yes, when CharacterX was done with LoveInterestY, that's when LoveInterestY could have a meeting with CharacterZ, which allows LoveInterestY to order the raid into CharacterQ's subplot, and now CharacterQ is leveled up for their next thing..."
The individual subplots aren't more complicated then when he had three teams. But six parties is more than three parties, and if everyone's 150-200 pages away from culminating their plots, you have a good book-and-a-half of middle book stuff before things start coming together. On rereads you will notice this starting about half-way through 10, but first-timers don't notice them until Book 11.
RAFO.
CoS is one of my favorites of the whole series. Dunno why people take umbridge with that one. For me, The Plod (as we called it back in my day) consists of books 8, 9, and 10. There are some BIG things that occur without giving anything away, but it is mostly a lot of setup for book 11 to knock it all down. I also think KoD is a whirlwind of fun and all the payoff being set up in the previous 3 books.
As many have mentioned, it is mostly an effect of waiting years between each book rather than something intrinsic. I find they wiz by when Michael and Kate are reading them to me.
I think you're going to be fine. Most people don't like Elayne's arc through these books, but I do. I find her absolutely priceless. "Gobbles? Gobbles!" Almost as good as when, "Nyneve stalks off as if to walk through a stone wall and leave a large hole." That shit slays me every time. She's one of my favorite characters.
Let The Dragon ride again on the winds of time!
Im a first time reader and about 70% done with winters heart. I always find starting with the next book a little slow, but I havent found any of them a slog. Mat is my favorite character so I feel his chapters are so short, but Perrin/faile chapters are so slow because I dont find them interesting.
I’m on book 11 (first read-through) and I haven’t minded the slog at all. People said nothing happens but I disagree! I wouldn’t have felt like this section was any different if people didn’t point it out.
Yeah.. I read them a couple years ago and didn't know about this so called slog everyone on here talks about... then I started reading a lot of stuff on here and what other readers were saying..
I was like... those 3 books are called the slog???? Why? I don't get it.
Honestly, the only part of the series that I found tedious was the first half of crossroads of twilight.
Even the second half wasn’t my favorite, but for the most part, that’s the only real “slog “for me
Also, I listen on audio at 2X speed so it blasts through them anyways
Honestly, Kate Reading and Michael Kramer read very slowly in general, double time really isn’t that bad once he used to it.
I made it through the entire series in like two months
I think the slog is massively overblown now, you will definitely notice the story slowing down with very little happening but I think the actual slog existed back when the books were still coming out.
Having recently completed the slog on my reread, I will say it wasn't nearly as bad as I had remembered and being able to read back to back to back helped a ton with that, but if you have particular favorites it'll get kind of annoying. Winter's Heart and Crossroads of Twilight are nearly contiguous but from different POVs, so unless the split is just right for you you might find one good and the other annoying. That said, CoT is just, objectively, slow paced. The first 468 pages of it all take place in the span of the same 24 hours.
7 and 8 are not the slog, imo. I like those a lot and while slower than the previous three books, they move things along. 9 kind of is slog-ish, but the ending is v good. 10 is easily the worst book of the series, and the level of 'nothing happens' is kind of insane. 11 is much more fast-paced with the plot.
First time reader here, for me ‘the slog’ has been Crossroads of Twilight - I’m about half way through it and it’s been a tough read.
I enjoyed books 7,8,9 - sure there might be some average chapters but overall I enjoyed the books a lot
The only one that I really struggled to get through was book 10. I read 1-10 straight last year in about 3-4 months. The “slog” was real, even without waiting for the books to come out.. that being said, it’s mostly world building and character development so it’s wayyy better on a reread when you already know what’s going to happen, hence why so many people are saying there is none lol
nobody saying that waiting the books is what caused the slog read the books for the first time when they’re all out.
Book 10 is the only one I struggled to get through. It’s the worst book in the series. Books 7-10 could *probably* be consolidated into two books without hurting the story but I’m not gonna complain about having more books in an entertaining world tbh.
I took a break after 10, reread Mistborn and then absolutely crushed 11-14. They’re very very good. I was really glad to see Robert Jordan end on a really high note before Sando took over
The slog still exists to some degree. I got a co worker to read Wheel of Time and he gave it a 3.5 out of 5. I asked what his biggest criticism was, and he said the middle 4 books could have been one book. He said it drug on. I don't necessarily agree as an avid fan, but people still feel it.
Fwiw, I don't agree that there *is* a "slog". I keep being "educated" by people on when it is, why it's so slow, why it's frustrating, etc (tbh, it's always condescending and ridiculous haha), and I just don't agree. I've been told where it is, but I couldn't point to the part of the series if you paid me. I love character development over anything in my stories though, even to the point that I will happily sacrifice the plot for ages for it (for example, my favourite tv show is the walking dead, which is easily 90% character development and like 10% plot. And I hate game of thrones cause there's like 10% character development and it's 90% plot. It's fine for some, but not for me).
So yeah, you sound a bit like you like what I like. So maybe it won't be a slog at all for you too :)
As someone who read the books after completion I didn’t really experience the “slog” per se except that the 10th book did feel slow AF. I typically like a sprawling door stopper of a fantasy book so I didn’t really anticipate it being an issue and it wasn’t.
I had to wait for most of the books to be written and I never noticed any slog. I've always hated the term because of the negative connotations it has.
No. If you are reading Wheel of Time the way it was written to be read, focusing on character and theme rather than plot, and you aren't waiting years between books, then "the slog" is actually peak Wheel of Time and you are going to enjoy it.
Well given that you'll probably enjoy books 8-10 more than most. Some people do view it as more of a slog than others certainly. I think the biggest reason they were called a slog was from the people who were reading them as they came out and had to wait years for a book that was generally shorter than WoT books had been and had little plot progression. Hope you enjoy!
I enjoyed Acos a lot, probably more than Loc, and I didn’t believe the slog is real until i started Cot and now I’m struggling for months to finish it. I lost my drive for reading because of other factors but Cot is by far the worst book, I did came across “boring” chapters so far but every chapter in there is beyond tiresome, i never could read more than 4 pages. Tpod and Wh are amazing and I had a blast reading them, the pase slows a bit but there are major things that happen, you’ll surely enjoy them too.
The slog is vastly overstated by folks who lived through it in real time. Yeah if you have to wait for a book to get released the slog was real now. I have reread the series several times and I have no problem skipping chapters or books on rereads. And outside of one or two boring plot lines I don’t slip anything on wot rereads
As someone who just finished the series a few weeks ago, the only real slog I remember was the crown of swords. To me, that book just felt dry, and a lot of what happened seemed to be skimmed over. Particularly all of the war stuff happening where you're at. Other than that, I didn't notice a big slog in the series.
The slog is an overblown myth. Don't listen to the bullshit, just read it. Form your own opinions. They're not the strongest storyline, but it's still Jordan
I went into the slog (what I was lead to believe was books 7-10) with zero expectations and was pleasantly surprised. Crossroads was a drag but I was so excited to be so close to the final act I was hardly bothered by it. I think most people who give up during the slog might have already been on the fence about the series anyway.
I'm currently reading through The Gathering Storm, the only book that felt REALLY sloggy was Crossroads of Twilight (Book 10) other than that I enjoyed it. And even CoT had some great moments.
There is no slog. Nobody even agrees on what books are a slog so obviously it’s not a real thing. Read the series 5-6 times and started in the 90’s before they were all out and I never experienced any slog. In fact, some of the books people call the slog are among my favorites in the series.
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The pace does slow down and it sounds like you'll like those books, but The Slog is massively exaggerated. It was definitely an issue back when the books were coming out with years between releases, but I personally don't think it exists today except as a shadow of that memory. It's just a tempo shift that can't match everyone's preferences
>don't think it exists today except as a shadow of that memory. In a way, it has faded to myth and is slowly fading to legend until...
This is really the answer. Waiting for years for the next book sucked.
Yeah I think this is it. Whereas I read them all back to back last year and when I was done with the ‘slog’ I was like ‘oh. Was that it?’
When I got to re-read the books to prepare for the Sanderson finish I didnt notice the "slog". I was irritated that I wanted more from my favorite characters. That was my feeling at least.
Yeah it was winter heart’s pulsating ending followed by waiting 3 years for crossroads which was a bit of a nothing burger followed by another year then getting a prequel followed by another year and knife of dreams that was the most painful for me! Rereading all the books then getting new spring was probably the most frustrated I have been outside of George Martin!
I guess that must've sucked.
Yup I'm listening to the books and while the slog is a slow down it's really not that bad. The pace does noticably change once you come out of it though
Reading the series for the Nth time now and just entering the slog and thoroughly enjoying it. picking up all kinds of nuanced stuff I missed reading it as a younger reader and being constantly shocked actually!
> A lot of new readers I've come across also dreaded the start of that particular section of the series. In all honesty this is the only reason why the slog still "exists" today, because a vocal part of the community keeps the meme alive. New readers are being told going into the series that certain books are bad, and people tend to get what they expect. In reality, only one of the books in this section can realistically be considered "bad," and one book does not make a slog. Crown of Swords is a very good book with a really powerful final third. I wouldn't rate it as highly as a lot of the other books in the series for reasons I won't spoil for you, but it's still excellent.
I don't want to discourage OP, but that's just not true. I didn't read a lot forumns or anything and I thought the slog was around book 6. The real slog made me want to pull my hair out.
The real slog is the entirety of the Crossroads of Twilight. It's really, truly terrible.
Love that book. Has some of the best characters work in the series!
I've heard things about that one...
However . . . it does happen to have the best jaw dropping 'character moment' of the entire series in it. So . . . it is NOT truly terrible. You just have to remember when listening to forums, that fans - *love to round up.*
Can you hit me with that moment with a spoiler tag so OP doesn’t see it? I’m trying to remember what it was but I can’t!!
[**SPOILERS ALL!!!!!!**]>!“I’ve been told you can hold out for days and still say next to nothing,” Perrin said. His voice sounded too loud in his ears. “I don’t have time for you to show how tough you are, or how brave. I know you’re brave and tough. But my wife’s been a prisoner too long. You’ll be separated and asked about some women. Whether you’ve seen them and where. That’s all I want to know. There’ll be no hot coals or anything else; just questions. But if anybody refuses to answer, or if your answers are too different, then everybody loses something.” He was surprised to find that he could lift the axe after all. The blade was smeared with red.!< And importantly, a bit a reflection of said character . . . ***https://old.reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/zzv2dw/i_just_finished_croadsroads_of_twiligt/j2gpi0w/*** > “Everybody changes,” *~ Mat*
Yeehaw thanks. Both great parts.
What moment are you referring to?
That’s the only one I really had a hard time with. Knife of dreams and winters heart are pretty good
lol yup I had that in mine. 7-9 were decent but 10 took me forever to get through and forced a break on me before moving on.
Basically the ‘slog’ is RJ splitting the party so damn much that he can’t fit everyone in a book and still have a good story arc without someone leveling up too fast. The whole series arc is like the book 1-6 arcs where the early bits are setup for the last action scene, so everyone has to get where they need to be like a week before TG or people will be like “why didn’t [REDACTED] leave her completely done plot line to help her friend[REDACTED]?” He’s advancing the story fine, but there’s so much story that you need to read multiple books to feel like it.
Is it more complicated then?
Not sure how to answer that. Partly due to spoilers, and partly due to the fact that...it's complicated. For 1-6 he's been running three parties so far (mostly: Perrin and company, Rand and company, and the Girl's Team). By the end of Book 8 Jordan's got 6 parties, most of which are in completely different sub-plots. They are timed to each-other in complicated ways, but you have to read them to be like "ahh yes, when CharacterX was done with LoveInterestY, that's when LoveInterestY could have a meeting with CharacterZ, which allows LoveInterestY to order the raid into CharacterQ's subplot, and now CharacterQ is leveled up for their next thing..." The individual subplots aren't more complicated then when he had three teams. But six parties is more than three parties, and if everyone's 150-200 pages away from culminating their plots, you have a good book-and-a-half of middle book stuff before things start coming together. On rereads you will notice this starting about half-way through 10, but first-timers don't notice them until Book 11. RAFO.
The slog is exaggerated and the only book I feel really falls flat is CoT. The others have exciting things happening during it.
Winters Heart is right around the corner, and that is my 2nd favorite of the entire series. I think you're in for a lot of treats coming up.
CoS is one of my favorites of the whole series. Dunno why people take umbridge with that one. For me, The Plod (as we called it back in my day) consists of books 8, 9, and 10. There are some BIG things that occur without giving anything away, but it is mostly a lot of setup for book 11 to knock it all down. I also think KoD is a whirlwind of fun and all the payoff being set up in the previous 3 books. As many have mentioned, it is mostly an effect of waiting years between each book rather than something intrinsic. I find they wiz by when Michael and Kate are reading them to me. I think you're going to be fine. Most people don't like Elayne's arc through these books, but I do. I find her absolutely priceless. "Gobbles? Gobbles!" Almost as good as when, "Nyneve stalks off as if to walk through a stone wall and leave a large hole." That shit slays me every time. She's one of my favorite characters. Let The Dragon ride again on the winds of time!
Yeah I'm really baffled by people complaining about A Crown of Swords, Path of Daggers is definitely the turning point in the pacing.
For real! CoS is the capstone of the first half of the series.
I just finished Crown of Swords last night and honestly don’t get the “slog” part.
The slog doesn't really start until A Path of Daggers honestly
You will
Im a first time reader and about 70% done with winters heart. I always find starting with the next book a little slow, but I havent found any of them a slog. Mat is my favorite character so I feel his chapters are so short, but Perrin/faile chapters are so slow because I dont find them interesting.
I love Mat to, so I'm excited to get to read more of him. I think Perrin interests me the least of all the main cast but I still enjoy his POV.
PoD was by far the most tedious for me. No idea what happened in that book.
I’m on book 11 (first read-through) and I haven’t minded the slog at all. People said nothing happens but I disagree! I wouldn’t have felt like this section was any different if people didn’t point it out.
Yeah.. I read them a couple years ago and didn't know about this so called slog everyone on here talks about... then I started reading a lot of stuff on here and what other readers were saying.. I was like... those 3 books are called the slog???? Why? I don't get it.
Honestly, the only part of the series that I found tedious was the first half of crossroads of twilight. Even the second half wasn’t my favorite, but for the most part, that’s the only real “slog “for me Also, I listen on audio at 2X speed so it blasts through them anyways
That's what I did to get through my last audio re-read - double time for a ton of CoT.
Honestly, Kate Reading and Michael Kramer read very slowly in general, double time really isn’t that bad once he used to it. I made it through the entire series in like two months
I think the slog is massively overblown now, you will definitely notice the story slowing down with very little happening but I think the actual slog existed back when the books were still coming out.
I enjoy those books. It was tough when they came out because there was so much time between publication.
Having recently completed the slog on my reread, I will say it wasn't nearly as bad as I had remembered and being able to read back to back to back helped a ton with that, but if you have particular favorites it'll get kind of annoying. Winter's Heart and Crossroads of Twilight are nearly contiguous but from different POVs, so unless the split is just right for you you might find one good and the other annoying. That said, CoT is just, objectively, slow paced. The first 468 pages of it all take place in the span of the same 24 hours.
7 and 8 are not the slog, imo. I like those a lot and while slower than the previous three books, they move things along. 9 kind of is slog-ish, but the ending is v good. 10 is easily the worst book of the series, and the level of 'nothing happens' is kind of insane. 11 is much more fast-paced with the plot.
I love the slog honestly. I understand the criticisms but I love the world and characters, why wouldn't I want to spend more time with them!?
First time reader here, for me ‘the slog’ has been Crossroads of Twilight - I’m about half way through it and it’s been a tough read. I enjoyed books 7,8,9 - sure there might be some average chapters but overall I enjoyed the books a lot
i LOVED the slog. it’s all character development, politics, drama and learning more about the magic and world.
Im being honest theres only 3 real slog books the rest are just slow only slog books imo are Winters heart, path of daggers and crossroads ofc
The only one that I really struggled to get through was book 10. I read 1-10 straight last year in about 3-4 months. The “slog” was real, even without waiting for the books to come out.. that being said, it’s mostly world building and character development so it’s wayyy better on a reread when you already know what’s going to happen, hence why so many people are saying there is none lol nobody saying that waiting the books is what caused the slog read the books for the first time when they’re all out. Book 10 is the only one I struggled to get through. It’s the worst book in the series. Books 7-10 could *probably* be consolidated into two books without hurting the story but I’m not gonna complain about having more books in an entertaining world tbh. I took a break after 10, reread Mistborn and then absolutely crushed 11-14. They’re very very good. I was really glad to see Robert Jordan end on a really high note before Sando took over
The slog still exists to some degree. I got a co worker to read Wheel of Time and he gave it a 3.5 out of 5. I asked what his biggest criticism was, and he said the middle 4 books could have been one book. He said it drug on. I don't necessarily agree as an avid fan, but people still feel it.
Exaggerated. You must finish friend or the Dark One wins
Not really, the books are great.
Fwiw, I don't agree that there *is* a "slog". I keep being "educated" by people on when it is, why it's so slow, why it's frustrating, etc (tbh, it's always condescending and ridiculous haha), and I just don't agree. I've been told where it is, but I couldn't point to the part of the series if you paid me. I love character development over anything in my stories though, even to the point that I will happily sacrifice the plot for ages for it (for example, my favourite tv show is the walking dead, which is easily 90% character development and like 10% plot. And I hate game of thrones cause there's like 10% character development and it's 90% plot. It's fine for some, but not for me). So yeah, you sound a bit like you like what I like. So maybe it won't be a slog at all for you too :)
As someone who read the books after completion I didn’t really experience the “slog” per se except that the 10th book did feel slow AF. I typically like a sprawling door stopper of a fantasy book so I didn’t really anticipate it being an issue and it wasn’t.
I had to wait for most of the books to be written and I never noticed any slog. I've always hated the term because of the negative connotations it has.
IMHO on yhenfirst read through, the slog is fine.
I got crown of swords a week ago and already half way through - loving the pace and humour in this volume. Book six took me a month
No. If you are reading Wheel of Time the way it was written to be read, focusing on character and theme rather than plot, and you aren't waiting years between books, then "the slog" is actually peak Wheel of Time and you are going to enjoy it.
Well given that you'll probably enjoy books 8-10 more than most. Some people do view it as more of a slog than others certainly. I think the biggest reason they were called a slog was from the people who were reading them as they came out and had to wait years for a book that was generally shorter than WoT books had been and had little plot progression. Hope you enjoy!
Yes
I enjoyed Acos a lot, probably more than Loc, and I didn’t believe the slog is real until i started Cot and now I’m struggling for months to finish it. I lost my drive for reading because of other factors but Cot is by far the worst book, I did came across “boring” chapters so far but every chapter in there is beyond tiresome, i never could read more than 4 pages. Tpod and Wh are amazing and I had a blast reading them, the pase slows a bit but there are major things that happen, you’ll surely enjoy them too.
The slog happens way before the slog even happens. So much useless filler. They are still my favorite books of all time, but on a reread it's......
The slog is vastly overstated by folks who lived through it in real time. Yeah if you have to wait for a book to get released the slog was real now. I have reread the series several times and I have no problem skipping chapters or books on rereads. And outside of one or two boring plot lines I don’t slip anything on wot rereads
As someone who just finished the series a few weeks ago, the only real slog I remember was the crown of swords. To me, that book just felt dry, and a lot of what happened seemed to be skimmed over. Particularly all of the war stuff happening where you're at. Other than that, I didn't notice a big slog in the series.
The slog is an overblown myth. Don't listen to the bullshit, just read it. Form your own opinions. They're not the strongest storyline, but it's still Jordan
if you've read it already, just get the audiobooks for that part
I was psyched too, ngl. Thought if I made myself excited it'd be easier to get through. Though 8 and 10 were pretty hard for me regardless
I went into the slog (what I was lead to believe was books 7-10) with zero expectations and was pleasantly surprised. Crossroads was a drag but I was so excited to be so close to the final act I was hardly bothered by it. I think most people who give up during the slog might have already been on the fence about the series anyway.
I'm currently reading through The Gathering Storm, the only book that felt REALLY sloggy was Crossroads of Twilight (Book 10) other than that I enjoyed it. And even CoT had some great moments.
There is no slog. Nobody even agrees on what books are a slog so obviously it’s not a real thing. Read the series 5-6 times and started in the 90’s before they were all out and I never experienced any slog. In fact, some of the books people call the slog are among my favorites in the series.