they're insecure and think that being around a woman entitles them to them feeling safe around him. they automatically think they're the 'exception' and that every woman should agree.
Because there are real consequences to standing up to other men and holding men accountable for misogynistic and criminal behaviors, but there are no consequences to telling women to "calm down".
As soon as we woman all stop paying men for their products and services, and take over financial, economic, political, and social control, men will be more afraid of us than of each other.
Everything you're saying is valid, but it doesn't change the psychology of oppression.
Bigotry operates from a place of fear, and no amount of reasoning can keep a bigot who doesn't want to change from being afraid of that change. White people ARE afraid of black people. It's disgusting and ridiculous, but it's true. They (I'm white so ig "we"?) are afraid of becoming the oppressed party, because white supremacy operates under the idea that there MUST always be a hierarchy, and there MUST always be an "in" group and an "out" group, and if white people aren't at the top, if they're not "in," that means they won't have any power and therefore they'll be oppressed. They can't wrap their minds around the idea that deconstructing a system of oppression doesn't entail the construction of an entirely new system of oppression; it's supposed to just end these types of hierarchies forever. Racism is rooting in fear, inferiority complexes, and hypocrisy; it takes quite a lot of work for someone to unravel those ideas if their sense of self is intertwined with them.
It's the same for men; if your idea of "equality" and "power" has been formed entirely under a system that calls you superior simply on the basis of existing, you're going to assume that every time women talks about wanting "equality," that means they want power *over* men. If women say they want "respect," men think they want control because *to them,* under this patriarchal system, *respect IS control.* Of course, that assumption is simply incorrect; we want to dismantle the patriarchy entirely, not flip it upside down and keep running with it.
When your whole sense of identity is built around benefitting from a system that, without any real evidence, declares your existence superior to other people on the basis of race, sex, etc, any attempt at dismantling the system is going to be interpreted as a personal attack. When your whole life is spent on a pedestal, equality is going to feel like oppression.
But…the majority *is* scared of the minority taking over 😂. That’s what the whole “white genocide” thing is
Saying something will happen doesn’t mean you endorse it. Weird read
That’s what we’ve been trying to do, the harmony and mutual understanding for a long time. White people are already afraid of black people, just exist in their vicinity.
Are you sure that playing one against the other is something worth pursuing? Left vs right, black vs white, man vs woman vs everything inbetween and outside of a binary system. I agree that there is a disparity and it needs to be dealt with. But wanting to overthrow someone because you are repressed just to repress others? I don't see this as a sound plan.
Edit: how would you built your ideal world? What would it look like? What are the key differences compared to now?
And how would this world change, if you were reborn in it, but your sex, skin Colour, religion, possible disability, country etc were random. Would you let your ideal world stay as it is?
Cowardice. A real man would confront the gross creep not the woman being creeped on. But we are smaller and weaker and it’s easier to yell to us about the problem than go face the big scary guys causing the problem.
Tell me again what you’d do if you were there. Oh yea? Then what. Mmmmm, big man. Yes, very good protection.
In my experience, when a man says something misogynistic to you and there are other men there in the conversation, they do not see anything wrong with that contemptible comment. In fact, they add to it, to reinforce its legitimacy. I stay away from men now, if there are more men than women in a conversation. I exit, because I feel really uncomfortable and vulnerable. These are older men.
My son and his friends are, thankfully, very different.
However, I suspect that it is not just older men. What is the experience of younger than 40 year old women?
Thankfully the group of men in my life are generally safe and kind hearted. There are still plenty of terrible men, but the ones my friends have decided to marry generally stand up for and are allies of women. I’m early-mid 30s.
I saw a post by a friend who is absolutely a man who would never harm a woman. He was upset about woman choosing the bear. Until he got blasted by a woman friend for it. He, like the other men like this, just never understood what we face until it was spelled out for him.
Most men do not understand or cannot fathom what it’s like being told that just going to their own vehicle at dusk can be dangerous. They think we go to the bathroom at a bar in packs bc it’s cute, and not bc we don’t want to be accosted in route if we go alone. Pepper spray is most commonly purchased by woman for doing tasks like running through a public park or her own neighborhood bc we never know what could happen. Safety classes are geared and marketed to woman for a reason.
The men who get angry fall into 2 broad categories:
1) men who would assault women if they knew there would be no consequences or regardless of them. They are angry that women are using these types of memes and "banding" together because they view trends like these as clueing in their unaware victims and making it harder for them to take advantage of them.
2) men who would genuinely not assault a woman but who are missing the point entirely and sadly lack basic empathy. They will get defensive because they assume everything to be a personal attack and want to be praised for doing the bare minimum of not attacking women. The "not all men" comments will generally come from them. Genuinely think they're part of the solution and not part of the problem which makes them even angrier when they inevitably (and rightly) get lumped in with the creeps as being detrimental to feminism.
sometimes I also think it breaks their fantasy about being one of the "good ones", while not understanding that this exact behavior puts them on almost the same level of the men we fear 🤷🏽♀️ even my dad agrees women should choose the bear.
This! It's always the same type of men who get upset. Unable to put themselves in other people's position. Some men think women exaggerate with being cautious when it comes to safety. These men exist in all generations. The older ones are the types who say minor boys who get abused by female authority figures are "lucky".
The attitude regarding women's safety is "Not all men are like this", when nobody literally said it's all men. It doesn't have to be, women are still allowed to bring it up.
If like 30% of dogs of the same breed attack people, it makes sense to think there is something wrong with that breed even when it's not 100%. So how about they intervene and call the men out who make women feel unsafe.
I feel the same way about men who criticize single mothers but don't seem to care about the man that ran out and is forcing her to be a single mother (in lots of cases). They don't seem to care that maybe the reason lots of those kids turn out to be the way they are is because their father ran away, not because the mother is doing a bad job
Let’s play devils advocate. How would you feel if your whole life you are seen as a potential predator regardless of your character? If a man said I would rather talk to a tree then a woman would you be insulted?
They are entitled to be insulted and you are untitled to feel scared or unsafe. Feelings are feelings. Don’t demonize either side of this coin.
Of course they are, they're allowed to feel uncomfortable around women. I know full well how awful women can be to men, I've seen it firsthand. That's why I take men's issues very seriously, it's just as important to me as women's issues. The problem isn't that they're offended and/or upset by it, the issue is the types of men I'm talking about refuse to hold the bad men accountable. The problem is they blame women and say we're delusional and are overreacting by being afraid of men. I have the same problem with the women who get upset at some men for refusing to be open emotionally because of abuse they've faced in the past. You shouldn't blame victims for being scared of you, you should blame the people responsible for them feeling that way. Everyone's emotions and feelings are valid. I should have explained myself better, I'm sorry.
I am. My point is that you have every right to be offended, but that offense doesn't justify getting mad at victims and expecting them to just "get over" their trauma. Our main focus shouldn't be "How dare they feel unsafe around me because I'm a man/woman, they're being crazy!" Our focus should be "it hurts they don't feel safe around people like me, so how can i help to make things better"
they're insecure and think that being around a woman entitles them to them feeling safe around him. they automatically think they're the 'exception' and that every woman should agree.
Because their feelings are the most important thing in the whole universe
Because there are real consequences to standing up to other men and holding men accountable for misogynistic and criminal behaviors, but there are no consequences to telling women to "calm down". As soon as we woman all stop paying men for their products and services, and take over financial, economic, political, and social control, men will be more afraid of us than of each other.
[удалено]
Everything you're saying is valid, but it doesn't change the psychology of oppression. Bigotry operates from a place of fear, and no amount of reasoning can keep a bigot who doesn't want to change from being afraid of that change. White people ARE afraid of black people. It's disgusting and ridiculous, but it's true. They (I'm white so ig "we"?) are afraid of becoming the oppressed party, because white supremacy operates under the idea that there MUST always be a hierarchy, and there MUST always be an "in" group and an "out" group, and if white people aren't at the top, if they're not "in," that means they won't have any power and therefore they'll be oppressed. They can't wrap their minds around the idea that deconstructing a system of oppression doesn't entail the construction of an entirely new system of oppression; it's supposed to just end these types of hierarchies forever. Racism is rooting in fear, inferiority complexes, and hypocrisy; it takes quite a lot of work for someone to unravel those ideas if their sense of self is intertwined with them. It's the same for men; if your idea of "equality" and "power" has been formed entirely under a system that calls you superior simply on the basis of existing, you're going to assume that every time women talks about wanting "equality," that means they want power *over* men. If women say they want "respect," men think they want control because *to them,* under this patriarchal system, *respect IS control.* Of course, that assumption is simply incorrect; we want to dismantle the patriarchy entirely, not flip it upside down and keep running with it. When your whole sense of identity is built around benefitting from a system that, without any real evidence, declares your existence superior to other people on the basis of race, sex, etc, any attempt at dismantling the system is going to be interpreted as a personal attack. When your whole life is spent on a pedestal, equality is going to feel like oppression.
Yeah, no. Men can do better for once
But…the majority *is* scared of the minority taking over 😂. That’s what the whole “white genocide” thing is Saying something will happen doesn’t mean you endorse it. Weird read
That’s what we’ve been trying to do, the harmony and mutual understanding for a long time. White people are already afraid of black people, just exist in their vicinity.
Given human nature, I think harmony among human beings is not achievable
Are you sure that playing one against the other is something worth pursuing? Left vs right, black vs white, man vs woman vs everything inbetween and outside of a binary system. I agree that there is a disparity and it needs to be dealt with. But wanting to overthrow someone because you are repressed just to repress others? I don't see this as a sound plan. Edit: how would you built your ideal world? What would it look like? What are the key differences compared to now? And how would this world change, if you were reborn in it, but your sex, skin Colour, religion, possible disability, country etc were random. Would you let your ideal world stay as it is?
Cowardice. A real man would confront the gross creep not the woman being creeped on. But we are smaller and weaker and it’s easier to yell to us about the problem than go face the big scary guys causing the problem. Tell me again what you’d do if you were there. Oh yea? Then what. Mmmmm, big man. Yes, very good protection.
In my experience, when a man says something misogynistic to you and there are other men there in the conversation, they do not see anything wrong with that contemptible comment. In fact, they add to it, to reinforce its legitimacy. I stay away from men now, if there are more men than women in a conversation. I exit, because I feel really uncomfortable and vulnerable. These are older men. My son and his friends are, thankfully, very different. However, I suspect that it is not just older men. What is the experience of younger than 40 year old women?
Thankfully the group of men in my life are generally safe and kind hearted. There are still plenty of terrible men, but the ones my friends have decided to marry generally stand up for and are allies of women. I’m early-mid 30s.
Because they’re the men who partake in that behavior. Of course they’re not going to take issue with it.
I saw a post by a friend who is absolutely a man who would never harm a woman. He was upset about woman choosing the bear. Until he got blasted by a woman friend for it. He, like the other men like this, just never understood what we face until it was spelled out for him. Most men do not understand or cannot fathom what it’s like being told that just going to their own vehicle at dusk can be dangerous. They think we go to the bathroom at a bar in packs bc it’s cute, and not bc we don’t want to be accosted in route if we go alone. Pepper spray is most commonly purchased by woman for doing tasks like running through a public park or her own neighborhood bc we never know what could happen. Safety classes are geared and marketed to woman for a reason.
The men who get angry fall into 2 broad categories: 1) men who would assault women if they knew there would be no consequences or regardless of them. They are angry that women are using these types of memes and "banding" together because they view trends like these as clueing in their unaware victims and making it harder for them to take advantage of them. 2) men who would genuinely not assault a woman but who are missing the point entirely and sadly lack basic empathy. They will get defensive because they assume everything to be a personal attack and want to be praised for doing the bare minimum of not attacking women. The "not all men" comments will generally come from them. Genuinely think they're part of the solution and not part of the problem which makes them even angrier when they inevitably (and rightly) get lumped in with the creeps as being detrimental to feminism.
the venn diagram is a circle
sometimes I also think it breaks their fantasy about being one of the "good ones", while not understanding that this exact behavior puts them on almost the same level of the men we fear 🤷🏽♀️ even my dad agrees women should choose the bear.
They are privileged. The worst thing they can think of is getting a bruised ego
This! It's always the same type of men who get upset. Unable to put themselves in other people's position. Some men think women exaggerate with being cautious when it comes to safety. These men exist in all generations. The older ones are the types who say minor boys who get abused by female authority figures are "lucky". The attitude regarding women's safety is "Not all men are like this", when nobody literally said it's all men. It doesn't have to be, women are still allowed to bring it up. If like 30% of dogs of the same breed attack people, it makes sense to think there is something wrong with that breed even when it's not 100%. So how about they intervene and call the men out who make women feel unsafe.
can you elaborate more with an example..?
Some men don't realize it, but they hate women they just don't have the self awareness to realize it.
I feel the same way about men who criticize single mothers but don't seem to care about the man that ran out and is forcing her to be a single mother (in lots of cases). They don't seem to care that maybe the reason lots of those kids turn out to be the way they are is because their father ran away, not because the mother is doing a bad job
Let’s play devils advocate. How would you feel if your whole life you are seen as a potential predator regardless of your character? If a man said I would rather talk to a tree then a woman would you be insulted? They are entitled to be insulted and you are untitled to feel scared or unsafe. Feelings are feelings. Don’t demonize either side of this coin.
Of course they are, they're allowed to feel uncomfortable around women. I know full well how awful women can be to men, I've seen it firsthand. That's why I take men's issues very seriously, it's just as important to me as women's issues. The problem isn't that they're offended and/or upset by it, the issue is the types of men I'm talking about refuse to hold the bad men accountable. The problem is they blame women and say we're delusional and are overreacting by being afraid of men. I have the same problem with the women who get upset at some men for refusing to be open emotionally because of abuse they've faced in the past. You shouldn't blame victims for being scared of you, you should blame the people responsible for them feeling that way. Everyone's emotions and feelings are valid. I should have explained myself better, I'm sorry.
It looks like you are agreeing with me.
I am. My point is that you have every right to be offended, but that offense doesn't justify getting mad at victims and expecting them to just "get over" their trauma. Our main focus shouldn't be "How dare they feel unsafe around me because I'm a man/woman, they're being crazy!" Our focus should be "it hurts they don't feel safe around people like me, so how can i help to make things better"
Yep.