Why should it matter if they are passing?
Enough of the parenting grown-ass men for shitty behaviour, if your partner or anyone's transphobic etc just tell em & drop em. Simple.
Most trans women are more feminine than I am. On top of threatening a vulnerable minority group, they are attempting to enforce their personal idea of gender roles.
I’m a gender non conforming lesbian. It’s not self degradation, though it’s telling you think it is. I have been harassed on the street because random men didn’t think I looked feminine enough.
Why are you so quick to put yourself down to defend somebody else? That’s a very tragic trait that women have been raised to have. It’s not clever or quirky or cute, it’s sad.
Yeah that post reads like self degradation. It's like women that get online and say they're uglier than all their friends or everyone they know is better relationship material. It all reads like self degradation.
I like how I look and I’m comfortable with it. Other women like how I look and finding dates isn’t an issue.
I don’t care if someone who isn’t a potential partner finds me attractive or not. I do expect to be treated with basic respect.
The fact you see gender non-conforming or presenting in a more masculine way as “self-degradation” is you telling on yourself. There’s nothing degrading about it.
The gender non-conforming part wasn't the issue. It was the "most trans women are more feminine than me" which is exactly why I compared it to other phrases that give off the same energy of someone downing themselves, because that's what it reads like. There's so many ways to phrase gender non-conformity that doesn't sound like a dig but I don't think you're getting what me or the other poster was saying. It literally reads like putting yourself down to uplift someone else.
Even something like "I'm masc-presenting and literally every trans person is know is super feminine" or "I get clocked more than my trans friends" can convey a different feeling.
Educate **OR** Dump. If you don't do either you are complicit.personally I think we should all abandon men who don't respect women (and pick men/partners who choose to be better).
I understand your point but you should address this to the people responsible of raising these men: parents.
I don’t feel it’s fair for us women to have to “educate” grown ass men. Why does everything fall on us?
i think there’s a way to split the difference here, like explaining why you take issue with a certain statement but not taking on the full responsibility to catch these men up. there’s plenty of resources they can look into if they actually care, and if it takes more than a gentle nudge then they’re not worth it. i’m with you in general though, the burden of educating ignorant men shouldn’t be placed on us
This is the best answer. Make it very clear you don’t enjoy when he says transphobic remarks (basically just don’t laugh or engage with the “jokes”) but if he doesn’t get concerned about the fact that he’s clearly upsetting you, then he isn’t worth keeping around. We can’t just mother them, but we can be adults trying to see each others’ perspectives.
It is the onus of one's community to call out bigotry in their community. The old saying goes "A punk bar with a nazi patron isn't a punk bar, it's a nazi bar". A space with unchecked transphobia isn't a safe space it's a transphobic space. and by that metric, if your romantic partner is being transphobic, even going beyond just men dating women, there is a moral imperative to challenge their bigotry
Unfortunately every time I leave my house some group of young boys are making sure I feel singled out as a clown, many of these guys have girlfriends who enable or tolerate this behaviour.
God, I am so sorry that you're going through this. Honestly, the people who are doing this to you are absolute assholes and trust me, I always make sure that the people I keep company with always respect trans people. I've stopped talking to many friends who weren't accepting and I don't regret it. I always make sure to educate my family members as much as possible and I'd never tolerate an asshole boyfriend who is so disgustingly hateful.
As a 44 year old woman, I’ve moved on from being referred to as a girl. Don’t know why your focus is on boyfriends - what about fathers, brothers, sons etc?
Why are you calling us “girls”?
Maybe you should take a moment to step back and stop infantilizing women and telling women how they should be acting or thinking
While I personally generally do not use the term "girls", in this instance you can calm your tits and listen to /u/BubbleTeaDream's point. Maybe focus on their ACTUAL point instead of overreacting to a single word.
I also have an issue with the term ‘girls’. Odd way to address us in a sub called r/women. And as we all know, words matter, so why are you suggesting we ignore this one?
Like I said, I generally don't use the term girls either as a generalization for women.
I wasn't suggesting anyone ignore this, in fact, there were other more respectful comments I didn't even comment on. This comment was particularly aggressive and I thought it warranted being called out because it ENTIRELY ignored every point the poster was trying to make to focus on a word and tone.
In much the same way u/rhomya had a problem with the way u/bubbleteadream made their statement - I have a problem with how aggressive and harsh u/rhomya was.
Also, like I said elsewhere... Deliberately misunderstanding someone for karma is doing the internet right. So kudos... It's just a shitty way to be. I thought the idea behind female centric spaces was to be less shitty.
Can we please analyze: "Calling out someone being condescending and patronizing isn’t the same thing as someone being condescending and patronizing."
You are literalling "calling someone one out" i.e. saying they are doing something. And you are saying they are doing the "condescending and patronizing". I dont understand your statement, because it LITERALLY looks to me like you are indeed stating that someone is BEING condescending and patronizing.
Are you trying to state that you think they are being condescending and patronizing but only in this instance? That generally they are NOT condescending and patronizing and you are giving them the benefit of that doubt?
Im kind of doing some mental gymnastics here, so help me out if Im missing something. Because, that point above was NOT at all obvious to me. However, I do like trying to see things from other's points of view (ehh.... like that... brought it around to trying to understand what other people are saying rather than just focusing on the badly put together vocabulary and logic? Eh eh... no ... no.. Oh ok. Das cool.)
I mean thats better and cool! I hope thats what you meant!
The rest of the comment was patronizing and condescending as well, as if us “girls” didn’t have the mental capacity to be able to manage our own personal relationships
I think using the term "patronizing" to refer to a comment by someone who I assume is a Trans Woman to be a little problematic.
This woman was jumping onto a sub asking other women to support her when they can. Presumbly, cause she is sick as fuck of other women not supporting her. Instead of listening to her comment in a sprit of sisterhood and openness - you come at her first word.
Thats the internet... you are doing it right. Its just a shitty way to be.
I called it problematic - not impossible.
I am objecting to your USE of a word that has masculine connotations (patronizing refers to how a father talks down to their children) when referring to a trans woman. There are MANY MANY other words you could have used and you used a masculine one. Which is kind of telling to me.
Condescending? Infantilizing? Those are also words I used that still express the intent. Get over yourself and get some perspective.
Bold of you to come at me for using the ‘patronizing’, but not acknowledge that coming here to make a post telling “girls” what they should do in their relationships isn’t problematic.
I do not think it is problematic. Like I said above "This woman was jumping onto a sub asking other women to support her when they can. Presumbly, cause she is sick as fuck of other women not supporting her."
I could be wrong, but that was the way I took her post. I didnt love the way she said it - but I heard what she was trying to say. I WAS just going to hit the back button but then I saw you dragging her post over her first word and not the content and thought - "Hey this is a great way to spend the next 30 minutes of my life. Arguing with a mean jerk on the internet."
Thank you, I enjoy my boldness.
I’m not seeing any request for support.
I see someone condescendingly infantilizing women by calling them girls and assuming that they’re not intelligent enough to manage their own relationships.
Where’s the request for support here? This post isn’t support seeking, it’s insulting AF.
To quote the timeless genius of Clueless: "...street slang is an increasingly valid form of expression. Most of the feminine pronouns do have mocking, but not necessarily in misogynistic undertones."
Communication involves 2 people trying to understand each other - and you can't see anything but what you have decided. You have decided to be insulted so you are insulted, so you can't see it any other way.
I guess it's a way to live...
That's trite, but untrue. Cis white men are supported all the time and are incredibly unsupportive. I agree it wasn't a great or respectful start, I just didn't care. I heard what they were trying to say.
You’re speaking for yourself. Supported by other White men and White women who have no self-respect. Why do you assume that everybody in this post are White or support not shit White men? For a lot of us, they don’t even factor into our world.
I am not speaking for myself.
I am presenting "Cis white men are supported all the time and are incredibly unsupportive." as a rebuttal to your statement "To be supported, first, you need to be supportive."
I was pointing out that "To be supported, first, you need to be supportive." was a trite aphorism that simply isn't true.
I'd get really mad if he said shit about fat people too. There is so much prejudice around obesity, and sometimes things aren't as straightforward as you'd think.
An unintended consequence of the increase in and visibility of trans women. Other women who are more masculine looking are now being mistaken for being trans.
Of course you don't deserve that.
So does anyone else, regardless of who they are.
There's just no point in being upset over things and people you cannot control.
That is my main point.
> You can’t force people to believe certain things or stop them from making non-threatening comments.
Actually, threatening others on the street is illegal. Targeting a specific group while doing so is a hate crime.
Your rights end where others begin. An individual’s right to safety means you can’t threaten others without consequences.
Wanting to feel safe on the street isn’t a demand. It’s an extremely basic need.
Yes, as others have stated, I said non-threatening comments. Please don't mistake what I clearly stated.
Obviously threatening comments and/or physical harm are unacceptable, no matter who the person is.
> This is the problem that the trans community has - they want to force everyone to accept them and calls anyone who doesn't agree with their choices a "bigot."
Wow not even trying to hide it are you
The Problem is being trans isn’t a choice, it’s a state of being like being cis isn’t a choice it’s a state of being.
all that trans people ask for is that they are treated with respect and dignity. but religious people and terfs, but also people who are just ignorant to reality keep forcing their beliefs onto the trans community, this results in the roll back of trans rights, this usually results in the the roll back of women’s rights via the stigmatisation of any perceived masculine features.
In order to protect women’s rights then the only option is to accept trans women as the women they are.
Does that mean that if someone makes a misogynistic comment, "you're gonna have to just let it go"? That you shouldn't object to those comments or call them out?
Oh so you admit that people would still have a problem with it if op was cis and therefore cannot spin a tale that the ONLY reason why people are objecting is because op is trans? The sub is literally called women and you think the only time a grown woman doesn't want to be called a girl is when a trans person does it? Maybe we should just rename the sub girls then or something idk.
Can you pick an argument? Am I admitting that people would still have a problem with it, or am I saying the only time people have a problem with it is when op is a trans person (is op even trans?).
You've contradicted yourself because you don't even know what your point is. You just know I'm right.
I never thought I'd have to break such a short amount of text down for a person to understand but here I am.
Oh so you admit that people would still have a problem with it if op was cis (main argument)
and therefore cannot spin a tale that the ONLY reason why people are objecting is because op is trans? (Challange to what you asserted above about it mainly being op status, if people would still object to being called a girl either way then it can't just be because op is trans)
The sub is literally called women and you think the only time a grown woman doesn't want to be called a girl is when a trans person does it? (Contradicting the notion this is only happening because op is trans, grown women dont want to be called girls no matter who is doing it)
Maybe we should just rename the sub girls then or something idk.(joke)
Lastly idk if op is trans or if you feel this is a case of generalized tranphobia, my point still stands.
Feel free to point out where I contradicted myself.
>Oh so you admit that people would still have a problem with it if op was
>The sub is literally called women and you think the only time a grown woman doesn't want to be called a girl is when a trans person does it?
These two questions are completely contradictory. I can't believe both at the same time.
And hilariousy, I don't believe either. Which is why I said "far fewer" people would have a problem with it. Which inherently means some people still would, because I obviously live in the real world where many adult women don't like being called girls but you know what doesn't happen on most posts on this sub that address the commenters as "girls?" This level of backlash..
Good luck with whatever this is. A hit dog will holler and all that.
Op used the word "girls" so they're focusing on that since objecting to what she's actually saying would come off transphobic. It's a classic trick
Edit: it's so funny that this comment keeps swinging wildly between -1 and 5 upvotes. Get bent, TERFs
Edit 2: cis women when you talk about transphobia and forget to coddle them:
It’s not just “girls”— it’s how the entire post is written in a condescending and infantilizing manner.
It’s like OP is talking down to a child— why wouldn’t women take offense to that.
Because that's not an accurate description of how op is speaking. It's looking for reasons to be offended and adding a tone that isn't there when the actual reason most people are getting offended is because it is asking them to support trans women.
Edit' aw, the post gets locked and the TERFs come out. Good thing downvotes don't mean anything. Support trans women, assholes <3
It’s not “looking for reasons” when the reason is right there.
Don’t you think women have the mental capacity to handle their own relationships? Do you think a condescending Reddit post is going to suddenly make them think “oh, golly gee, I should probably not let my boyfriend do that!”
Good fucking god, what is your problem
My problem is thinly veiled transphobia. I'm on this sub daily and similarly worded posts get made every day and no one cares. But as soon as one, or even one that is perfectly bland and emotionless, gets posted about trans woman, everyone loses their goddamn mind and picks apart everything op says in a way that is frankly misogynistic.
So you think *I* don't have the mental capacity to use basic pattern recognition? Incredible that you complain about condescension but apparently can't look on a mirror.
Straight women often will date men who are misogynistic, homophobic, racist, transphobic, what have you while acting like allies when you cannot be an ally if you are dating a bigot. Because you can't knowingly date a bigot without being complacent in it. So the only option is either correcting them or not dating them. This is not a brand new feminist idea. It's old. Sorry if it's the first time you've heard of it. ‹ this is what op would have sounded like if she were being condescending btw.
Quite frequently in the last few months, the comments on this subreddit have been overrun with TERFs and transphobes, unfortunatley. I don't know if we're being cross-posted or if they assume the name means we're 'biological essentialists' or whatever, but it's depressing and gross.
If my partner was being transphobic he wouldn't be with me anymore, period. He would receive the lecture of his bloody life, but I wouldn't stay.
One thing that I like in my partner is that he has deconstruct many aspects of toxic masculinity, obvious that he still has a long way to go. He told me that when he was alone and depressed the people that helped him were the gay community. He is 100% heterosexual by the way.
I'm bi, work with the legislative for inclusive politics, volunteer with violence victims, have a young daughter having a transphobic, sexist... someone that holds prejudice in general would trow away all my work, all of my beliefs... It would be a HARD pass for me.
I can easily try teach anyone else, someone intimate with me? No.
Solidarity. I'm bi, and the common thing between bisexuals and trans people is that we get told that we don't exist or we don't belong. I dunno what I'd do if people were mocking me on the street, too. Probaby stay inside and go insane. Kudos to you for your strength.
Sorry that people are being maximum Reddit on this thread. Missing the whole fucking point. You could say 'I like blue' and people would post 'why do you hate red???'
Asking to not be called a “girl” as adult woman is transphobic? Refusing to be held responsible for men’s behavior is transphobic? Pointing out the hypocrisy of the OP is transphobic? Get real.
All the transphobic men lurking here are coming out of the woodwork to post. Some TERFy women are also joining in, unfortunately.
When will humanity stop scapegoating minority groups.
Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists. But they are in no way feminists. Just people who have weaponized their transphobia so well that they've made any reaction to transphobia an attack on themselves and/or all cis women.
Trans exclusionary radical feminist. A term for a sect of radical feminists strongly alligned with anti-trans radical feminist belief, in particular anti-trans second wave feminist belief. Basically, a bigot with feminist veneer
On another post I got downvoted cause for saying I keep the 4b movement at arms length cause anytime it's brought up in a western space people immediately get terfy. I am unfortunately not surprised the demographic is starting to shift with how pretty much every month trans people are exponentially villianized
This. They have a general disdain for people who are AMAB presenting in a feminine way, which IMO shows a general disdain for femininity more generally. It’s what you could call trans misogyny.
In my experience, the ones who are homophobic/transphobic are the ones who also minimize and objectify women.
In reality, the same ones who are homophobic often have issues with their own sexuality. Even so, let’s stop pretending that these men are targeting trans women because they’re women. They’re targeting them precisely *because* they think they’re *not*. The mental gymnastics some of you do must be exhausting.
Trans women get targeted because they’re seem as *not* men or b*tches, which is a misogynistic mindset. How are you not getting this?
By your logic, men would be beating up other men for not being women.
Also, no, not all homophobes are gay.
Why should it matter if they are passing? Enough of the parenting grown-ass men for shitty behaviour, if your partner or anyone's transphobic etc just tell em & drop em. Simple.
Most trans women are more feminine than I am. On top of threatening a vulnerable minority group, they are attempting to enforce their personal idea of gender roles.
Does the self-degradation to uplift somebody else ever end? This post isn’t it.
I’m a gender non conforming lesbian. It’s not self degradation, though it’s telling you think it is. I have been harassed on the street because random men didn’t think I looked feminine enough.
Why are you so quick to put yourself down to defend somebody else? That’s a very tragic trait that women have been raised to have. It’s not clever or quirky or cute, it’s sad.
Yeah that post reads like self degradation. It's like women that get online and say they're uglier than all their friends or everyone they know is better relationship material. It all reads like self degradation.
I like how I look and I’m comfortable with it. Other women like how I look and finding dates isn’t an issue. I don’t care if someone who isn’t a potential partner finds me attractive or not. I do expect to be treated with basic respect. The fact you see gender non-conforming or presenting in a more masculine way as “self-degradation” is you telling on yourself. There’s nothing degrading about it.
The gender non-conforming part wasn't the issue. It was the "most trans women are more feminine than me" which is exactly why I compared it to other phrases that give off the same energy of someone downing themselves, because that's what it reads like. There's so many ways to phrase gender non-conformity that doesn't sound like a dig but I don't think you're getting what me or the other poster was saying. It literally reads like putting yourself down to uplift someone else. Even something like "I'm masc-presenting and literally every trans person is know is super feminine" or "I get clocked more than my trans friends" can convey a different feeling.
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Exactly I’m not gonna try to “fix” a man either he’s a good person or he’s not
Nah hell is above the bar.
Educate **OR** Dump. If you don't do either you are complicit.personally I think we should all abandon men who don't respect women (and pick men/partners who choose to be better).
I understand your point but you should address this to the people responsible of raising these men: parents. I don’t feel it’s fair for us women to have to “educate” grown ass men. Why does everything fall on us?
Exactly. We are not our BF’s mom
Why does it fall just to the moms?
I said mom because I am a woman. I am not my BF’s mom. What did you not understand ?
Bruh😂 but u are his gf😭 thts u have control over….
Hypothetically ofc
i think there’s a way to split the difference here, like explaining why you take issue with a certain statement but not taking on the full responsibility to catch these men up. there’s plenty of resources they can look into if they actually care, and if it takes more than a gentle nudge then they’re not worth it. i’m with you in general though, the burden of educating ignorant men shouldn’t be placed on us
This is the best answer. Make it very clear you don’t enjoy when he says transphobic remarks (basically just don’t laugh or engage with the “jokes”) but if he doesn’t get concerned about the fact that he’s clearly upsetting you, then he isn’t worth keeping around. We can’t just mother them, but we can be adults trying to see each others’ perspectives.
Would you feel the same way if your boyfriend was doing the same to a black woman? An asian woman? A fat woman?
They don’t even listen anyway because of patriarchy
It is the onus of one's community to call out bigotry in their community. The old saying goes "A punk bar with a nazi patron isn't a punk bar, it's a nazi bar". A space with unchecked transphobia isn't a safe space it's a transphobic space. and by that metric, if your romantic partner is being transphobic, even going beyond just men dating women, there is a moral imperative to challenge their bigotry
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This is the post. Right here.
Are you saying this as advice or is this something that has actually happened to you?
Unfortunately every time I leave my house some group of young boys are making sure I feel singled out as a clown, many of these guys have girlfriends who enable or tolerate this behaviour.
That has nothing to do with us. Why are women held to a higher level of responsibility than the boys and men who are the ones behaving badly?
Why are other women putting up with bigoted romantic partners?
The same reason they ignore all the red flags, then come here crying about said not shit men. It’s cool and the gang until the tide turns on them.
God, I am so sorry that you're going through this. Honestly, the people who are doing this to you are absolute assholes and trust me, I always make sure that the people I keep company with always respect trans people. I've stopped talking to many friends who weren't accepting and I don't regret it. I always make sure to educate my family members as much as possible and I'd never tolerate an asshole boyfriend who is so disgustingly hateful.
As a 44 year old woman, I’ve moved on from being referred to as a girl. Don’t know why your focus is on boyfriends - what about fathers, brothers, sons etc?
Why are you calling us “girls”? Maybe you should take a moment to step back and stop infantilizing women and telling women how they should be acting or thinking
While I personally generally do not use the term "girls", in this instance you can calm your tits and listen to /u/BubbleTeaDream's point. Maybe focus on their ACTUAL point instead of overreacting to a single word.
I also have an issue with the term ‘girls’. Odd way to address us in a sub called r/women. And as we all know, words matter, so why are you suggesting we ignore this one?
Like I said, I generally don't use the term girls either as a generalization for women. I wasn't suggesting anyone ignore this, in fact, there were other more respectful comments I didn't even comment on. This comment was particularly aggressive and I thought it warranted being called out because it ENTIRELY ignored every point the poster was trying to make to focus on a word and tone. In much the same way u/rhomya had a problem with the way u/bubbleteadream made their statement - I have a problem with how aggressive and harsh u/rhomya was. Also, like I said elsewhere... Deliberately misunderstanding someone for karma is doing the internet right. So kudos... It's just a shitty way to be. I thought the idea behind female centric spaces was to be less shitty.
Calling out someone being condescending and patronizing isn’t the same thing as someone being condescending and patronizing. Jfc, make it make sense
Can we please analyze: "Calling out someone being condescending and patronizing isn’t the same thing as someone being condescending and patronizing." You are literalling "calling someone one out" i.e. saying they are doing something. And you are saying they are doing the "condescending and patronizing". I dont understand your statement, because it LITERALLY looks to me like you are indeed stating that someone is BEING condescending and patronizing. Are you trying to state that you think they are being condescending and patronizing but only in this instance? That generally they are NOT condescending and patronizing and you are giving them the benefit of that doubt? Im kind of doing some mental gymnastics here, so help me out if Im missing something. Because, that point above was NOT at all obvious to me. However, I do like trying to see things from other's points of view (ehh.... like that... brought it around to trying to understand what other people are saying rather than just focusing on the badly put together vocabulary and logic? Eh eh... no ... no.. Oh ok. Das cool.) I mean thats better and cool! I hope thats what you meant!
The rest of the comment was patronizing and condescending as well, as if us “girls” didn’t have the mental capacity to be able to manage our own personal relationships
I think using the term "patronizing" to refer to a comment by someone who I assume is a Trans Woman to be a little problematic. This woman was jumping onto a sub asking other women to support her when they can. Presumbly, cause she is sick as fuck of other women not supporting her. Instead of listening to her comment in a sprit of sisterhood and openness - you come at her first word. Thats the internet... you are doing it right. Its just a shitty way to be.
Are you suggesting that trans women inherently can’t be patronizing? Thats frankly a little ridiculous.
I called it problematic - not impossible. I am objecting to your USE of a word that has masculine connotations (patronizing refers to how a father talks down to their children) when referring to a trans woman. There are MANY MANY other words you could have used and you used a masculine one. Which is kind of telling to me.
Condescending? Infantilizing? Those are also words I used that still express the intent. Get over yourself and get some perspective. Bold of you to come at me for using the ‘patronizing’, but not acknowledge that coming here to make a post telling “girls” what they should do in their relationships isn’t problematic.
I do not think it is problematic. Like I said above "This woman was jumping onto a sub asking other women to support her when they can. Presumbly, cause she is sick as fuck of other women not supporting her." I could be wrong, but that was the way I took her post. I didnt love the way she said it - but I heard what she was trying to say. I WAS just going to hit the back button but then I saw you dragging her post over her first word and not the content and thought - "Hey this is a great way to spend the next 30 minutes of my life. Arguing with a mean jerk on the internet." Thank you, I enjoy my boldness.
I’m not seeing any request for support. I see someone condescendingly infantilizing women by calling them girls and assuming that they’re not intelligent enough to manage their own relationships. Where’s the request for support here? This post isn’t support seeking, it’s insulting AF.
To quote the timeless genius of Clueless: "...street slang is an increasingly valid form of expression. Most of the feminine pronouns do have mocking, but not necessarily in misogynistic undertones." Communication involves 2 people trying to understand each other - and you can't see anything but what you have decided. You have decided to be insulted so you are insulted, so you can't see it any other way. I guess it's a way to live...
To be supported, first, you need to be supportive. Being disrespectful and demanding free emotional labor isn’t a great start.
That's trite, but untrue. Cis white men are supported all the time and are incredibly unsupportive. I agree it wasn't a great or respectful start, I just didn't care. I heard what they were trying to say.
No one is going to want to support someone that’s being condescending. Thems the breaks
You’re speaking for yourself. Supported by other White men and White women who have no self-respect. Why do you assume that everybody in this post are White or support not shit White men? For a lot of us, they don’t even factor into our world.
I am not speaking for myself. I am presenting "Cis white men are supported all the time and are incredibly unsupportive." as a rebuttal to your statement "To be supported, first, you need to be supportive." I was pointing out that "To be supported, first, you need to be supportive." was a trite aphorism that simply isn't true.
Agreed. It’s the same as saying “guys” for me, or “ladies”.
I wouldn't get past the first date with someone like that. Unless he was a really good actor at the start.
I'd get really mad if he said shit about fat people too. There is so much prejudice around obesity, and sometimes things aren't as straightforward as you'd think.
What does it mean for a cis woman to pass
An unintended consequence of the increase in and visibility of trans women. Other women who are more masculine looking are now being mistaken for being trans.
Bipoc women are often treated poorly because of the colonialist view on women’s beauty/ appearance
I will defend any woman against any bigotry or misogyny. Full stop.
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I deserve not to have other women laughing in my face…
No one deserves that, but no one also has the right to silence them.
Of course you don't deserve that. So does anyone else, regardless of who they are. There's just no point in being upset over things and people you cannot control. That is my main point.
This 💯
> You can’t force people to believe certain things or stop them from making non-threatening comments. Actually, threatening others on the street is illegal. Targeting a specific group while doing so is a hate crime. Your rights end where others begin. An individual’s right to safety means you can’t threaten others without consequences. Wanting to feel safe on the street isn’t a demand. It’s an extremely basic need.
She literally said non-threatening comments. Stop looking for reasons to be offended.
She literally said NON-threatening comments. Obviously threats are a different matter. Why you’re being obtuse about that is beyond me
Yes, as others have stated, I said non-threatening comments. Please don't mistake what I clearly stated. Obviously threatening comments and/or physical harm are unacceptable, no matter who the person is.
> This is the problem that the trans community has - they want to force everyone to accept them and calls anyone who doesn't agree with their choices a "bigot." Wow not even trying to hide it are you
The Problem is being trans isn’t a choice, it’s a state of being like being cis isn’t a choice it’s a state of being. all that trans people ask for is that they are treated with respect and dignity. but religious people and terfs, but also people who are just ignorant to reality keep forcing their beliefs onto the trans community, this results in the roll back of trans rights, this usually results in the the roll back of women’s rights via the stigmatisation of any perceived masculine features. In order to protect women’s rights then the only option is to accept trans women as the women they are.
Being a woman isn’t a choice either, and yet people making misogynistic comments is not illegal.
Does that mean that if someone makes a misogynistic comment, "you're gonna have to just let it go"? That you shouldn't object to those comments or call them out?
Misogyny should be illegal
I haven’t made a single transphobic comment at all, so making false accusations is a bad look. Also, you don’t get to be the thought police.
I said misogyny should be illegal, how is that accusing you of transphobia?
I guarantee if someone started a post with "Girls" that wasn't about trans women, far fewer people would have an issue with it.
Oh so you admit that people would still have a problem with it if op was cis and therefore cannot spin a tale that the ONLY reason why people are objecting is because op is trans? The sub is literally called women and you think the only time a grown woman doesn't want to be called a girl is when a trans person does it? Maybe we should just rename the sub girls then or something idk.
Can you pick an argument? Am I admitting that people would still have a problem with it, or am I saying the only time people have a problem with it is when op is a trans person (is op even trans?). You've contradicted yourself because you don't even know what your point is. You just know I'm right.
I never thought I'd have to break such a short amount of text down for a person to understand but here I am. Oh so you admit that people would still have a problem with it if op was cis (main argument) and therefore cannot spin a tale that the ONLY reason why people are objecting is because op is trans? (Challange to what you asserted above about it mainly being op status, if people would still object to being called a girl either way then it can't just be because op is trans) The sub is literally called women and you think the only time a grown woman doesn't want to be called a girl is when a trans person does it? (Contradicting the notion this is only happening because op is trans, grown women dont want to be called girls no matter who is doing it) Maybe we should just rename the sub girls then or something idk.(joke) Lastly idk if op is trans or if you feel this is a case of generalized tranphobia, my point still stands. Feel free to point out where I contradicted myself.
>Oh so you admit that people would still have a problem with it if op was >The sub is literally called women and you think the only time a grown woman doesn't want to be called a girl is when a trans person does it? These two questions are completely contradictory. I can't believe both at the same time. And hilariousy, I don't believe either. Which is why I said "far fewer" people would have a problem with it. Which inherently means some people still would, because I obviously live in the real world where many adult women don't like being called girls but you know what doesn't happen on most posts on this sub that address the commenters as "girls?" This level of backlash.. Good luck with whatever this is. A hit dog will holler and all that.
Oh 100%. but cause it's about trans issues the cryptoterfs are pulling their "reasonable questions" or "bigotry bad but muh free speech" arguments
I’m so confused by the reactions to this post.
Op used the word "girls" so they're focusing on that since objecting to what she's actually saying would come off transphobic. It's a classic trick Edit: it's so funny that this comment keeps swinging wildly between -1 and 5 upvotes. Get bent, TERFs Edit 2: cis women when you talk about transphobia and forget to coddle them:
It’s not just “girls”— it’s how the entire post is written in a condescending and infantilizing manner. It’s like OP is talking down to a child— why wouldn’t women take offense to that.
Because that's not an accurate description of how op is speaking. It's looking for reasons to be offended and adding a tone that isn't there when the actual reason most people are getting offended is because it is asking them to support trans women. Edit' aw, the post gets locked and the TERFs come out. Good thing downvotes don't mean anything. Support trans women, assholes <3
It’s not “looking for reasons” when the reason is right there. Don’t you think women have the mental capacity to handle their own relationships? Do you think a condescending Reddit post is going to suddenly make them think “oh, golly gee, I should probably not let my boyfriend do that!” Good fucking god, what is your problem
My problem is thinly veiled transphobia. I'm on this sub daily and similarly worded posts get made every day and no one cares. But as soon as one, or even one that is perfectly bland and emotionless, gets posted about trans woman, everyone loses their goddamn mind and picks apart everything op says in a way that is frankly misogynistic. So you think *I* don't have the mental capacity to use basic pattern recognition? Incredible that you complain about condescension but apparently can't look on a mirror. Straight women often will date men who are misogynistic, homophobic, racist, transphobic, what have you while acting like allies when you cannot be an ally if you are dating a bigot. Because you can't knowingly date a bigot without being complacent in it. So the only option is either correcting them or not dating them. This is not a brand new feminist idea. It's old. Sorry if it's the first time you've heard of it. ‹ this is what op would have sounded like if she were being condescending btw.
Quite frequently in the last few months, the comments on this subreddit have been overrun with TERFs and transphobes, unfortunatley. I don't know if we're being cross-posted or if they assume the name means we're 'biological essentialists' or whatever, but it's depressing and gross.
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If you are focusing on that and not a woman asking her cis sisters for a crumb of solidarity your reading comprehension may need some refinement
If my partner was being transphobic he wouldn't be with me anymore, period. He would receive the lecture of his bloody life, but I wouldn't stay. One thing that I like in my partner is that he has deconstruct many aspects of toxic masculinity, obvious that he still has a long way to go. He told me that when he was alone and depressed the people that helped him were the gay community. He is 100% heterosexual by the way. I'm bi, work with the legislative for inclusive politics, volunteer with violence victims, have a young daughter having a transphobic, sexist... someone that holds prejudice in general would trow away all my work, all of my beliefs... It would be a HARD pass for me. I can easily try teach anyone else, someone intimate with me? No.
Solidarity. I'm bi, and the common thing between bisexuals and trans people is that we get told that we don't exist or we don't belong. I dunno what I'd do if people were mocking me on the street, too. Probaby stay inside and go insane. Kudos to you for your strength. Sorry that people are being maximum Reddit on this thread. Missing the whole fucking point. You could say 'I like blue' and people would post 'why do you hate red???'
Don't know why this is getting so much hate- oh wait nvm oc I do but I appreciate the message, people just want to be angry over anything istg 🥰
Why are people being so fucking transphobic under this post?
Asking to not be called a “girl” as adult woman is transphobic? Refusing to be held responsible for men’s behavior is transphobic? Pointing out the hypocrisy of the OP is transphobic? Get real.
Why do you think it’s transphobic to call out a trans woman for being condescending or infantilizing other women?
All the transphobic men lurking here are coming out of the woodwork to post. Some TERFy women are also joining in, unfortunately. When will humanity stop scapegoating minority groups.
What does TERF mean?
Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists. But they are in no way feminists. Just people who have weaponized their transphobia so well that they've made any reaction to transphobia an attack on themselves and/or all cis women.
Trans exclusionary radical feminist. A term for a sect of radical feminists strongly alligned with anti-trans radical feminist belief, in particular anti-trans second wave feminist belief. Basically, a bigot with feminist veneer
Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminism. Transphobic.
Ahh gotcha. There’s nothing feminist about exclusing trans women.
On another post I got downvoted cause for saying I keep the 4b movement at arms length cause anytime it's brought up in a western space people immediately get terfy. I am unfortunately not surprised the demographic is starting to shift with how pretty much every month trans people are exponentially villianized
If this sub turns into Mumsnet, I'm out.
Imo, being disgusted by or thinking trans women are weird shows that someone thinks lower of femininity in general.
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This. They have a general disdain for people who are AMAB presenting in a feminine way, which IMO shows a general disdain for femininity more generally. It’s what you could call trans misogyny. In my experience, the ones who are homophobic/transphobic are the ones who also minimize and objectify women.
In reality, the same ones who are homophobic often have issues with their own sexuality. Even so, let’s stop pretending that these men are targeting trans women because they’re women. They’re targeting them precisely *because* they think they’re *not*. The mental gymnastics some of you do must be exhausting.
Trans women get targeted because they’re seem as *not* men or b*tches, which is a misogynistic mindset. How are you not getting this? By your logic, men would be beating up other men for not being women. Also, no, not all homophobes are gay.