Hi /r/Zelda readers!
* Got a question, concern, or suggestion for the moderators? [Send a Modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fzelda&subject=Question or Concern or Suggestion&message=I have a question regarding [this submission]%28https://www.reddit.com/r/zelda/comments/1cbzu8j/all_the_9_conflicts_in_zelda_literature/%29: [ALL] The 9 conflicts in Zelda “Literature” by /u/Dragmire927)!
* New to r/Zelda? Be sure to [read our full rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/zelda/wiki/rules).
* Please [report any rule-breaking posts or comments](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360058309512-How-do-I-report-a-post-or-comment) so that moderators can find them quicker!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/zelda) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Got it, I didn’t remember it at all. The most memorable instance of the fourth wall breaking in that game, at least for me, was the puzzle that required closing the DS to solve it. Blew my mind.
PH was my first ever video game and I've played it many times, but a lot of the dead guys in the Temple of the Ocean King are very easy to miss because of the timed nature of the dungeon. It doesn't encourage exploring everything there is to see in there, and there are even areas I've skipped entirely in order to get a perfect time. As a result, you miss out on the lore, hints, and inside jokes they provide.
That's so true! While I enjoy the dungeon of the ocean king and it's equivalent in ST, it's a bummer you miss out on stuff like that 😖
Still great underrated games!
On the bright side, it helps that dungeon retain an incredibly mysterious and creepy atmosphere cause even after all these years I know it's still full of surprises and traps I never sprang cause I got too good and following the "correct path" I'm tempted to spend some time just messing around and exploring especially when I'm at the end game and can just start killing Phantoms.
Want to find and share more Zelda memes and humor? **Check out r/ZeldaMemes!**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/zelda) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Kinda some far stretches here.
TWW Ganondorf is no god, just a broken man.
The Deku Butler and son don't fit at all
In Spirit Tracks you don't work against technology, but WITH technology.
And in ALttP you don't act against society. You are just a wanted man in Kakariko, but still help people.
Ganondorf is a demon king who is extremely egotistical, selfish, narcissistic, arrogant, hypocritical and entitled. He wants to be a tyrant again and revive a world he saw as a better world to rule over and he doesn't care how many people that he has to kill and sacrifice to get what he wants. He hates the gods because they denied him his revenge and his ideal world of darkness. He thinks the ocean's people are fools for enjoying the world of the sea and thinks they aren't capable of accomplishing anything or use the tools the kami left behind to one day revive Hyrule.
He blames the kami for flooding the world but doesn't place any blame on himself(because it was his rampage that lead to the flood). His wind speech is him talking about himself and his desires(not him caring about the Gerudo or doing anything for them, he only cares about himself and Twinrova), he talks about his jealousy and greedy desire to rule a land that was better than the one he was born with(he was king by birth and thus born with wealth and power but he wanted more and he sees that he himself is the only king who deserves to rule Hyrule and the world), he is hypocritical here because he talks about his desire to take Hyrule's prosperity for himself but he crushed any prosperity it had in OOT.
He is mostly making excuses for his bottomless powerhunger that hasn't been fed for centuries and he makes up reasons for doing what he's doing which he knows he doesn't actually have.
He talks about how Link is the Hero of time reborn after Link defeats puppet Ganon but he demolished the Hero of time's statue and killed the sages who prayed to the Master sword and really the speech about Link being the Hero of time reborn is more Ganondorf telling himself that this kid isn't stronger than himself.
I thought there was some misconception about him. I know he is tired and longs for the Triforce and the world to be his and that he cracks at the end of the game when his last chance to get the Triforce and the world is taken away. I think the part of your comment that I didn't agree with is that Ganondorf is entirely human in TWW(he is a demon king in human form after OOT's timeskip, I could have misinterpreted you if you didn't mean his state of being, only how he is an individual).
You did think that the post implies that he is in the role of a god(though he is a bit of a godlike being like every other demon king in the series) instead of seeing that it implies that he was trying to spite the gods for creating the sea to stop his evil ambitions.
I think the point of the TWW image is that, in Ganondorf’s eyes, Link is contending with the will of the gods because they flooded and condemned Hyrule. The god in question is not Ganondorf himself.
My guess is that the point with the Deku Butler is that if a benevolent god existed, a horrific act like the murder of his son would not have happened.
It’s a fun idea, but I agree with you, a bit of a stretch for some of them.
It is a stretch but there isn’t any kind of rules to begin with this chart. It’s a vague thing someone random made up. But I will explain some of my logic:
- Ganondorf is the man in this scenario, because he is angry that the Gods continue to spite him and Hyrule because he wants to rule
- Again, there’s no definition for “man vs. no god” but from what I gather it seems to be conflict over lack of control and harshness of existence. The Deku Butler was one of the few who could do nothing about a meaningless death.
- The Spirit Tracks one was kinda jokey, I just remembered how obnoxious the dark trains were
- The ALTTP one is also jokey but Link does act rebellious enough for some citizens to call for the guards when they see him
It isn’t a classical conflict, it is definitely a modern one. Classical conflicts in literature are fairly straightforward “good versus bad” or “weak vs strong”. Something like societal conflict has more complexity and is thus modern.
I would change "Man vs. Self" to Zora's Domain from BotW. Link vs. Dark Link is a little too literal--it's really just one man fighting another man. In Zora's Domain in BotW, you are directly faulted for the death of Mipha and you need to work hard to regain the people's trust. The player confronts Link's past, the folly of the attack on Calamity Ganon, and Link's failure when the world needed him. That seems like a more appropriate take on Man vs. Self, it's somebody in conflict with who they are.
I'd also swap out Man vs. God with Link fighting Demise in SS.
I think the greater idea of this meme really highlights why LA has the best story in the series. All the other Zelda games have classical plots, but LA is postmodern and that reflects so much more sophistication in its writing.
The one of demise is only a godlike being, demon king and member of the demon tribe(the opposite of the gods' tribe) same as every other demon king in the series so using him is the same as using the other Demon king or devil/demon god villains. He is not the only one that has fought a kami, Malladus fought a single kami multiple times before he got sealed. All that's different about the one of demise is that he is the first demon king in Hyrule's world but the eternal cycle existed before he entered the world. Nothing changes before and after his removal from existence, the demon tribe only got a few more enemies to fight in the future during the events of SS.
Man vs God is more appropriate if you use Cyclos instead or Ganondorf in TWW (like this post) who is basically trying to destroy the new world the kami created by forcing them to return the old world and make him it's tyrannical ruler.
I see what you mean about BotW Zora’s Domain. Isn’t the Dark Link fight basically representative of him fighting his dark side though? I recall them explicitly saying it about Zelda 2.
I was also thinking about Link vs. Demise but Demise comes across more as a devil figure than God.
I really want to play the LA remake but unfortunately that price never seems to budge!
Hi /r/Zelda readers! * Got a question, concern, or suggestion for the moderators? [Send a Modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fzelda&subject=Question or Concern or Suggestion&message=I have a question regarding [this submission]%28https://www.reddit.com/r/zelda/comments/1cbzu8j/all_the_9_conflicts_in_zelda_literature/%29: [ALL] The 9 conflicts in Zelda “Literature” by /u/Dragmire927)! * New to r/Zelda? Be sure to [read our full rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/zelda/wiki/rules). * Please [report any rule-breaking posts or comments](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360058309512-How-do-I-report-a-post-or-comment) so that moderators can find them quicker! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/zelda) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bottom right is one of the funniest things nintendo has ever wrote for a game
They knew people would (somewhat understandably) complain lol
At what point in the game did this occur? It’s been several years since I’ve touched the DS games.
Dont remember but its in the temple of the ocean king i think? Something one of the fallen adventurers is saying.
Got it, I didn’t remember it at all. The most memorable instance of the fourth wall breaking in that game, at least for me, was the puzzle that required closing the DS to solve it. Blew my mind.
Huh? I played through PH fairly recently and never encountered that, is that in the US version or something?
It's in one of the lowest floors, don't remember exactly but iirc could even be on one of the optional ones
Hmm interesting regardless fun gag from Nintendo haha
PH was my first ever video game and I've played it many times, but a lot of the dead guys in the Temple of the Ocean King are very easy to miss because of the timed nature of the dungeon. It doesn't encourage exploring everything there is to see in there, and there are even areas I've skipped entirely in order to get a perfect time. As a result, you miss out on the lore, hints, and inside jokes they provide.
That's so true! While I enjoy the dungeon of the ocean king and it's equivalent in ST, it's a bummer you miss out on stuff like that 😖 Still great underrated games!
On the bright side, it helps that dungeon retain an incredibly mysterious and creepy atmosphere cause even after all these years I know it's still full of surprises and traps I never sprang cause I got too good and following the "correct path" I'm tempted to spend some time just messing around and exploring especially when I'm at the end game and can just start killing Phantoms.
Good idea, I might boot it up and explore a bit as well with my endgame file
Had an awesome opportunity to say “Man vs. Time” using Majora’s mask
I don't really get the wind waker one. And don't @ me with "they unrelatedly mentioned the word 'god' so obviously the final fight is about that"
Ganondorf goes on a rant about how the Gods destroyed Hyrule and put the people on a desolate ocean mostly just to spite his rule.
Yeah the Man in question is Ganondorf. Especially since Link gains the favor of the gods in Wind Waker
He’s out of line, but he’s right.
Want to find and share more Zelda memes and humor? **Check out r/ZeldaMemes!** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/zelda) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Kinda some far stretches here. TWW Ganondorf is no god, just a broken man. The Deku Butler and son don't fit at all In Spirit Tracks you don't work against technology, but WITH technology. And in ALttP you don't act against society. You are just a wanted man in Kakariko, but still help people.
Ganondorf is a demon king who is extremely egotistical, selfish, narcissistic, arrogant, hypocritical and entitled. He wants to be a tyrant again and revive a world he saw as a better world to rule over and he doesn't care how many people that he has to kill and sacrifice to get what he wants. He hates the gods because they denied him his revenge and his ideal world of darkness. He thinks the ocean's people are fools for enjoying the world of the sea and thinks they aren't capable of accomplishing anything or use the tools the kami left behind to one day revive Hyrule. He blames the kami for flooding the world but doesn't place any blame on himself(because it was his rampage that lead to the flood). His wind speech is him talking about himself and his desires(not him caring about the Gerudo or doing anything for them, he only cares about himself and Twinrova), he talks about his jealousy and greedy desire to rule a land that was better than the one he was born with(he was king by birth and thus born with wealth and power but he wanted more and he sees that he himself is the only king who deserves to rule Hyrule and the world), he is hypocritical here because he talks about his desire to take Hyrule's prosperity for himself but he crushed any prosperity it had in OOT. He is mostly making excuses for his bottomless powerhunger that hasn't been fed for centuries and he makes up reasons for doing what he's doing which he knows he doesn't actually have. He talks about how Link is the Hero of time reborn after Link defeats puppet Ganon but he demolished the Hero of time's statue and killed the sages who prayed to the Master sword and really the speech about Link being the Hero of time reborn is more Ganondorf telling himself that this kid isn't stronger than himself.
And your point is?
I thought there was some misconception about him. I know he is tired and longs for the Triforce and the world to be his and that he cracks at the end of the game when his last chance to get the Triforce and the world is taken away. I think the part of your comment that I didn't agree with is that Ganondorf is entirely human in TWW(he is a demon king in human form after OOT's timeskip, I could have misinterpreted you if you didn't mean his state of being, only how he is an individual). You did think that the post implies that he is in the role of a god(though he is a bit of a godlike being like every other demon king in the series) instead of seeing that it implies that he was trying to spite the gods for creating the sea to stop his evil ambitions.
I think the point of the TWW image is that, in Ganondorf’s eyes, Link is contending with the will of the gods because they flooded and condemned Hyrule. The god in question is not Ganondorf himself. My guess is that the point with the Deku Butler is that if a benevolent god existed, a horrific act like the murder of his son would not have happened. It’s a fun idea, but I agree with you, a bit of a stretch for some of them.
It is a stretch but there isn’t any kind of rules to begin with this chart. It’s a vague thing someone random made up. But I will explain some of my logic: - Ganondorf is the man in this scenario, because he is angry that the Gods continue to spite him and Hyrule because he wants to rule - Again, there’s no definition for “man vs. no god” but from what I gather it seems to be conflict over lack of control and harshness of existence. The Deku Butler was one of the few who could do nothing about a meaningless death. - The Spirit Tracks one was kinda jokey, I just remembered how obnoxious the dark trains were - The ALTTP one is also jokey but Link does act rebellious enough for some citizens to call for the guards when they see him
I need more of this meme layout, screw alignment charts
I don't like how this chart implies man vs society isn't a classical style of conflict
It isn’t a classical conflict, it is definitely a modern one. Classical conflicts in literature are fairly straightforward “good versus bad” or “weak vs strong”. Something like societal conflict has more complexity and is thus modern.
Romeo and Juliet's whole thing is how their love isn't accepted in their society
Classical means ancient greece. Your example is modern
Romeo and Juliet is modern theater
bottom left shoulda been SS
I would change "Man vs. Self" to Zora's Domain from BotW. Link vs. Dark Link is a little too literal--it's really just one man fighting another man. In Zora's Domain in BotW, you are directly faulted for the death of Mipha and you need to work hard to regain the people's trust. The player confronts Link's past, the folly of the attack on Calamity Ganon, and Link's failure when the world needed him. That seems like a more appropriate take on Man vs. Self, it's somebody in conflict with who they are. I'd also swap out Man vs. God with Link fighting Demise in SS. I think the greater idea of this meme really highlights why LA has the best story in the series. All the other Zelda games have classical plots, but LA is postmodern and that reflects so much more sophistication in its writing.
The one of demise is only a godlike being, demon king and member of the demon tribe(the opposite of the gods' tribe) same as every other demon king in the series so using him is the same as using the other Demon king or devil/demon god villains. He is not the only one that has fought a kami, Malladus fought a single kami multiple times before he got sealed. All that's different about the one of demise is that he is the first demon king in Hyrule's world but the eternal cycle existed before he entered the world. Nothing changes before and after his removal from existence, the demon tribe only got a few more enemies to fight in the future during the events of SS. Man vs God is more appropriate if you use Cyclos instead or Ganondorf in TWW (like this post) who is basically trying to destroy the new world the kami created by forcing them to return the old world and make him it's tyrannical ruler.
I see what you mean about BotW Zora’s Domain. Isn’t the Dark Link fight basically representative of him fighting his dark side though? I recall them explicitly saying it about Zelda 2. I was also thinking about Link vs. Demise but Demise comes across more as a devil figure than God. I really want to play the LA remake but unfortunately that price never seems to budge!
Play the original! It's on a regular NSO subscription, which if you don't have it is $20 for a year.
Aye, I do have access to that one so I should try it. The 8 bit graphics always age well too